PDA

View Full Version : Dirty hit on Losman?


Stlrs4Life
09-26-2007, 10:08 AM
3POT8n2Qk3g



Dirty hit on Losman? You be the judge.

rbryan
09-26-2007, 10:12 AM
The fact that he stuck his elbow out shows his intent to hurt Losman. No surprise though, what do you expect from the dirty, cheating patsies.

Crushzilla
09-26-2007, 10:20 AM
If Keisel's hit on Campbell, which was with his arms extended and contact with the bicep, I believe, than this certainly should be as well.

After seeing the Patriot DLine abuse Rivers excessively after the play and after the blowout last week I'm honestly not surprised. That DLine is going to continue to play dirty and intimidate quarterbacks until someone can ram it right down their throat.

fansince'76
09-26-2007, 10:48 AM
I find it kind of hard to judge "intent" when the guy is out of control and falling forward - I think most NFL players know how quickly their careers can be ended by a blown up knee (especially), so I don't think the great majority of players go out there with the idea of intentionally injuring an opponent. Under the letter of the "below the waist" rule, he will probably get fined for it, though. I don't think the hit was "dirty" or "clean" - I put it more in the realm of "accidental." I may be a bad one to ask though, I think QBs are over-protected by the rules as it is.

TackleMeBen
09-26-2007, 10:56 AM
you let them do that to our qb.. and i will take out the pats dline personally:m16:

Livinginthe past
09-26-2007, 11:13 AM
Its a hit he will get fined for - no doubt.

Fact remains he bull rushed the centre - as he was going past you can see he gets tripped - naturally you put your arm out to arrest the fall and that contacted Losmans knee.

Unfortunate for sure.

Its not like there is even a tactical reason for taking such a cheap shot at the QB - Losman was unlikely to burn us.

And it certainly wasn't half as bad as the hit on the Washington QB Campbell by Keisel (?) where the defender began to fall and then threw himself in a lunge at the lower legs of the QB.

tony hipchest
09-26-2007, 11:19 AM
Its not like there is even a tactical reason for taking such a cheap shot at the QB - Losman was unlikely to burn us.

And it certainly wasn't half as bad as the hit on the Washington QB Campbell by Keisel (?) where the defender began to fall and then threw himself in a lunge at the lower legs of the QB.no tactical reason to videotape and cheat against the packers either, yet that didnt stop them. some habits (such as dirty play) are just ingrained and hard to break.

so how exactly did you quantify keisels hit being twice as bad as the cheapshot on losman where the defender zero'd in on his knee and strategically placed an elbow on it? these defenders know how to tuck and roll when they fall, and who the hell braces their fall with a flying forarm to somebodys knee?

he was tripped, but it was a trip and a lunge, not a trip and a fall.

rbryan
09-26-2007, 11:23 AM
The guy clearly stuck out his elbow. Go ahead and tell yourself whatever you need to. Just like it's not really cheating because the patsies are sooooo much better than the Jets.

Yeah, the patsies are the picture of virtue and integrity. In your little corner of the world at least.

Haiku_Dirtt
09-26-2007, 01:55 PM
From the Grapevine...

Losman is a freakin ***hole. Even his stepmother can't stand him. So by default ANY hit on him is clean in my book.

revefsreleets
09-26-2007, 02:39 PM
Anybody have the Kimo hit video? It'd be interesting to see them head to head. I have a hunch, but I don't want to say anything without both videos.

Steelerstrength
09-26-2007, 04:51 PM
During my 7 years as a University Strength Coach, I watched numerous practices and games where players fell. Their reactions were to support the fall with an arm to the floor.

Watch the video again, and you see the Puts player stick his elbow up and out. That elbow would not have protected him from a fall. At that angle he might have received a separated shoulder.

You can never be 100% sure of intent, but those two camera angles combined with the degree of elbow flexion & lateral contraction, causing elevation of the medial deltoid, appear to prove intent. The player then maintains that position through the fall, rather than returning to neutral position, or an angle more suitable to brace for the fall.

My opinion, the player had the intent of knocking down the QB in any way possible. In this case, the leg of the QB just happened to be his target. :twocents:

tony hipchest
09-26-2007, 05:10 PM
During my 7 years as a University Strength Coach, I watched numerous practices and games where players fell. Their reactions were to support the fall with an arm to the floor.

Watch the video again, and you see the Puts player stick his elbow up and out. That elbow would not have protected him from a fall. At that angle he might have received a separated shoulder.

You can never be 100% sure of intent, but those two camera angles combined with the degree of elbow flexion & lateral contraction, causing elevation of the medial deltoid, appear to prove intent. The player then maintains that position through the fall, rather than returning to neutral position, or an angle more suitable to brace for the fall.

My opinion, the player had the intent of knocking down the QB in any way possible. In this case, the leg of the QB just happened to be his target. :twocents: spot on.

when youre falling natural instinct is to brace with your hand or shoulder. if youre bracing with your inner elbow youre just gonna screw up an arm and still not absorb the fall. thats like saying someone intended to brace a fall with their face.

that trip and fall definitely had some "hot sauce" on it.

verks36
09-26-2007, 05:12 PM
yes it is dirty he put his elbow out just to hit losmans knee

MasterOfPuppets
09-26-2007, 05:49 PM
he was looking right at the qb when he threw the ball.. he had plenty of time too pull up on the hit, let alone not zero in on his knee with a flying elbow !!! the patriots have solidified thier title as " the scumbag cheaters" of the league ....:coffee:

LVSteelersfan
09-26-2007, 06:18 PM
Keisel's hit was headed somewhere into the thigh pad and waste. It was not a deliberate hit with an elbow to the knee. Typical gorilla tactics by a classless team. Kharma will come back to bite your team in the butt before this season is over. Don't be surprised if Brady goes down with a season ending injury this year if your team keeps playing like that. Someone will get to him sooner or later and it only takes one hit.

RoethlisBURGHer
09-26-2007, 07:08 PM
It was dirty and intentional...something else Bellicheat probally preaches.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
09-26-2007, 07:10 PM
Looked dirty to me. He'll probably get a pretty good fine.

X-Terminator
09-27-2007, 07:48 AM
He definitely lunged and stuck out his elbow to hit Losman, but it can be argued that he was trying to hit him in the thigh and not his knee. Regardless, it's an illegal hit to the lower leg and deserves a fine.

83-Steelers-43
09-27-2007, 08:00 AM
Looked dirty to me. He didn't bother wrapping up his legs. He actually extended his elbow in order to take out his knee.

If the NFL felt Keisel's hit on Jason Campbell was dirty, then they better take a nice long hard look at the hit on Losman.

revefsreleets
09-27-2007, 08:10 AM
Well, I couldn't find the video, but I saw enough pictures to refresh my memory. When Kimo hit Carson, he kind of wrapped up his leg, which was a lot more like an attempt to tackle Palmer. He didn't back off, but why should he? It's still his job to sack the QB.

As for this hit, it was definitely dirty. But out of all the good QB's the Pats will face, why take out JP Losman, the guy who is least likely to beat you?

83-Steelers-43
09-27-2007, 08:30 AM
Well, I couldn't find the video, but I saw enough pictures to refresh my memory. When Kimo hit Carson, he kind of wrapped up his leg, which was a lot more like an attempt to tackle Palmer. He didn't back off, but why should he? It's still his job to sack the QB.

Best I could find. As you already stated, Kimo was actually going for the tackle. Did not throw out an elbow to the knee.

http://www.nflrandr.com/blog/images/CPalmerB4Hit.jpg
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/michael_silver/05/24/carson.palmer/p1_palmer_getty.jpg

why take out JP Losman, the guy who is least likely to beat you?

Why use a video camera against the Jets? :wink02:

TackleMeBen
09-27-2007, 08:35 AM
because bellicheat hated the fact that one of his assistants took a head coaching job with in the same conference that the pats play in... and like someone said karma is a pain and it will come back to bite them..

Lord Stiller
09-27-2007, 08:38 AM
Looked dirty to me. He didn't bother wrapping up his legs. He actually extended his elbow in order to take out his knee.

If the NFL felt Keisel's hit on Jason Campbell was dirty, then they better take a nice long hard look at the hit on Losman.


I agree. It was far more blatent than Keisel's hit or Kimo's hit on Palmer.

I'm guessing he will just receive a hefty fine but I think a 1-2 game suspension is deserved and would better deliver the message

Anyone remember what Keisel's fine was?? This should be atleast double IMO

83-Steelers-43
09-27-2007, 08:40 AM
Anyone remember what Keisel's fine was?? This should be atleast double IMO

He was fined $12,500. He appealed the fine, but there have not been any updates on the appeal. At least I have not seen or heard anything.

rbryan
09-27-2007, 08:51 AM
Well, I couldn't find the video, but I saw enough pictures to refresh my memory. When Kimo hit Carson, he kind of wrapped up his leg, which was a lot more like an attempt to tackle Palmer. He didn't back off, but why should he? It's still his job to sack the QB.

As for this hit, it was definitely dirty. But out of all the good QB's the Pats will face, why take out JP Losman, the guy who is least likely to beat you?

If I'm not mistaken it was early in the game and the Bills had actually taken the lead. At that point all bets are off, especially now that they can't use thier cameras. Gotta find some other way to cheat if you're a patsie.

tony hipchest
09-27-2007, 09:04 AM
why take out chad pennington in the 1st game of the year? why tape the packers? its because that is what the patriots do and belichick will have their head on a platter if he gets the sense theyre not cheating hard enough regardless of the opponent. theyre expected to give 100% full effort in cheating all the time.

"but coach, the bottle says i only need half a CC".

"fill the syringe dammit!"

revefsreleets
09-27-2007, 09:09 AM
Ben Beware! If they take out JP, God knows what they may try to do to Ben.

83-Steelers-43
09-27-2007, 09:09 AM
"but coach, the bottle says i only need half a CC".

"fill the syringe dammit!"

:sofunny::toofunny::sofunny::toofunny:

Oh man, that was good.

Even concrete cracked a smile.....

http://www.wjactv.com/2007/0914/14113767_200X150.jpg Well sorta....I think it's a smile? Maybe it's just gas?

Livinginthe past
09-27-2007, 09:20 AM
I wonder if the fans of the teams who had to face the most intimidating, dirty, cheap-shot artists to ever play defensive line together every cried so hard.

'But its a mans game' whined the fans of the legendary 'Steel Curtain' - little did they know that 30 years the next generation of Steeler fans would disgrace the memory by getting their frilly little knickers in a twist.

'Quarterbacks get too much protection' they whimper after the media chastises them for taking out Carson as he began to light up the suspect Steeler secondary.

You can't have it both ways, unless you are a cry-baby Steelers fan.

#68 L.C. Greenwood, #75 Joe Greene, #63 Ernie Holmes, and #78 Dwight White bow their heads in shame.

tony hipchest
09-27-2007, 09:24 AM
I wonder if the fans of the teams who had to face the most intimidating, dirty, cheap-shot artists to ever play defensive line together every cried so hard.

'But its a mans game' whined the fans of the legendary 'Steel Curtain' - little did they know that 30 years the next generation of Steeler fans would disgrace the memory by getting their frilly little knickers in a twist.

'Quarterbacks get too much protection' they whimper after the media chastises them for taking out Carson as he began to light up the suspect Steeler secondary.

You can't have it both ways, unless you are a cry-baby Steelers fan.

#68 L.C. Greenwood, #75 Joe Greene, #63 Ernie Holmes, and #78 Dwight White bow their heads in shame.:yawn: a fan of the cheatriots has no business invoking the names of the steel curtain.

come out of the shell of denial and we may allow you to say "mean joe" once or twice though...


I wonder if the fans of the teams who had to face the most intimidating, dirty, cheap-shot artists to ever play defensive line together every cried so hard.

:crying01:

yep. it appears so....

revefsreleets
09-27-2007, 09:31 AM
I wonder if the fans of the teams who had to face the most intimidating, dirty, cheap-shot artists to ever play defensive line together every cried so hard.

What do the Raiders have to do with this?

'But its a mans game' whined the fans of the legendary 'Steel Curtain' - little did they know that 30 years the next generation of Steeler fans would disgrace the memory by getting their frilly little knickers in a twist.

I've never seen or heard anything about a Steeler ever trying to deliberately injure a QB by trying to take his knees out.

'Quarterbacks get too much protection' they whimper after the media chastises them for taking out Carson as he began to light up the suspect Steeler secondary.
Taking out? Suspect secondary? Was there some other game we needed to play that year beyond winning the Super Bowl?

You can't have it both ways, unless you are a cry-baby Steelers fan.

#68 L.C. Greenwood, #75 Joe Greene, #63 Ernie Holmes, and #78 Dwight White bow their heads in shame.

I have NEVER seen or heard or encountered fans who whine harder than Boston fans. It's almost as if they claim some kind of divine right to cry about every little pereived indiscretion against their teams. Your response here is WAY off base.

Livinginthe past
09-27-2007, 09:47 AM
What do the Raiders have to do with this?.

Very good.

I've never seen or heard anything about a Steeler ever trying to deliberately injure a QB by trying to take his knees out.

Weird co-incidence i'm sure - you being a Steelers fan and all.

Bear in mind the lack of media coverage back in the 70's - every whining NFL fan (like some fo the ones here) didn't have ready access to every late dirty/questionable hit that went down.

Im pretty sure youtube and NFL.com didn't exist back then.

Taking out? Suspect secondary? Was there some other game we needed to play that year beyond winning the Super Bowl??.

Who's to say you were going to the SB?

Palmer just lit up the seconday with a huge pass.


I have NEVER seen or heard or encountered fans who whine harder than Boston fans. It's almost as if they claim some kind of divine right to cry about every little pereived indiscretion against their teams. Your response here is WAY off base.

Im not from Boston.

I've also noticed that Steeler fans get plenty of criticism from other Steeler fans on here - whining, crying , moaning - always looking for the negative in every situation.

Why, theres even a post on that subject been made on the Steeler forum just in the last 24 hours or so - Steeler fans who whine about not being 'under the radar' when they get a little praise - and then cry when they don't appear on top of the power rankings.

Off base?

I couldn't be more on base.

83-Steelers-43
09-27-2007, 09:47 AM
I have NEVER seen or heard or encountered fans who whine harder than Boston fans. It's almost as if they claim some kind of divine right to cry about every little pereived indiscretion against their teams. Your response here is WAY off base.

I gotta agree with you on this one. Red Sox fans in particular. For years the baseball world had to deal with the B&M'ing from the fans in that city about how they are cursed and how they have not won a World Series since 1918 while having the second highest payroll in baseball. Boo-freakin-hoo.

Then HBO graced us all with the documentary "Curse of the Bambino". We got to hear them B&M some more. :yawn:

Hell, I was just happy to see them finally win a World Series so I did not have to hear them cry every year. It was pathetic.

tony hipchest
09-27-2007, 09:59 AM
I've also noticed that Steeler fans get plenty of criticism from other Steeler fans on here - whining, crying , moaning - always looking for the negative in every situation.

Why, theres even a post on that subject been made on the Steeler forum just in the last 24 hours or so - Steeler fans who whine about not being 'under the radar' when they get a little praise - and then cry when they don't appear on top of the power rankings.

Off base?

I couldn't be more on base.

do you mean this quote?:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is it me or (other than patriot fans constantly crying about being disrespected), is there any other fanbase out there that absolutely hates anything written about their team more than the steelerfans?

if they get good pub its bad cause they can no longer "fly under the radar" and its "blowing their cover", "we like being the underdog". if they get bad pub it is always from a "pats homer" and they are "being dissed". as much as steelerfans like the underdog role, they sure hate not having that high power ranking, or not being the favorites in a game.

if they get neutral pub they "are stating the obvious" = worthless article. sometimes i dont know why some fans even bother reading about or following the team.

if bouchette said hes probable its probably because he is probably gonna play

:busted: a little reading comprehension goes a looooong way, and wouldve probably prevented such a gross misrepresentation on your part. carry on with the spin and diversion though. :willy:

fansince'76
09-27-2007, 10:07 AM
Since this has begun to turn into a smack thread more than anything else, I'm moving it to the BF.

Crushzilla
09-27-2007, 01:23 PM
Definitely was a dirty hit.

Forget the fine...... take another draft pick from the Cheatsies!!

Speaking of which.... Has he been fined yet?

HometownGal
09-27-2007, 01:49 PM
I definitely think it was a cheap shot. No doubt about it.

TheWarDen86
09-27-2007, 05:08 PM
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. You can see he was tripped and one would natrually try to brace himself for the fall. He even turned sideways. The ball was gone and I doubt the Pats thought they needed to take Losman out of the game to win (not that they'd think that way anyway). I just don't see it in the video, nor do I see the sense in it.

The Duke
09-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Seems like he fell down and was unitentional, but I guess cause he's a patriot everyone is going to be saying it is a cheap shot...

billybob
09-27-2007, 05:34 PM
Very good.



Weird co-incidence i'm sure - you being a Steelers fan and all.

Bear in mind the lack of media coverage back in the 70's - every whining NFL fan (like some fo the ones here) didn't have ready access to every late dirty/questionable hit that went down.

Im pretty sure youtube and NFL.com didn't exist back then.



Who's to say you were going to the SB?

Palmer just lit up the seconday with a huge pass.




Im not from Boston.

I've also noticed that Steeler fans get plenty of criticism from other Steeler fans on here - whining, crying , moaning - always looking for the negative in every situation.

Why, theres even a post on that subject been made on the Steeler forum just in the last 24 hours or so - Steeler fans who whine about not being 'under the radar' when they get a little praise - and then cry when they don't appear on top of the power rankings.

Off base?

I couldn't be more on base.

you might want to ask your patsy lovin ass why you are on our sight.and what is the quality of the teams you have so far encountered.dumb ass

83-Steelers-43
09-27-2007, 05:35 PM
Seems like he fell down and was unitentional, but I guess cause he's a patriot everyone is going to be saying it is a cheap shot...

I can only speak for myself, but I would be saying the same if he was wearing a Steeler jersey. Him throwing the elbow is what made my opinion very easy to make.

Livinginthe past
09-27-2007, 05:38 PM
you might want to ask your patsy lovin ass why you are on our sight.and what is the quality of the teams you have so far encountered.dumb ass

Billybob.

Before you question my intelligence you may want to make sure you know the difference between a 'sight' and a 'site'.

Aside from all that, it was a real powerful argument you put forth - well done.

HometownGal
09-27-2007, 06:06 PM
you might want to ask your patsy lovin ass why you are on our sight.and what is the quality of the teams you have so far encountered.dumb ass

Hey - I'm one of the most diehard Steelers fans out there and our guys have played some great football thus far this season, but I think your question is a little hypocritical, considering the quality of the teams the Steelers have played and beaten in the first three. :wink02:

http://www.badmovies.org/movies/billyjack/billyjack8.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
09-27-2007, 06:40 PM
But this is not the first time Wilfork has been accused of playing dirty against the Bills. In a Bills-Patriots game in Buffalo on Oct. 3, 2004, Wilfork was accused by former Bills offensive linemen Jonas Jennings and Chris Villarrial of taking cheap shots at them during the game.

The incident happened behind the play. Following a six-yard completion from Drew Bledsoe to Eric Moulds, Jennings who was blocking Richard Seymour on the play was blindsided by Wilfork who initiated a helmet-to-helmet hit on the Buffalo tackle.

The hit cracked Jennings helmet near his jaw and Jennings was knocked out cold sustaining a concussion.

"It was almost like it was premeditated, like they set me up," Jennings told the Associated Press at the time.

Jennings had exchanged words with Wilfork earlier in that game when he saw the defensive tackle kick Villarrial in the ribs when he was on the ground following a first quarter field goal by Rian Lindell.

"It was a dirty thing to do," Villarrial told the AP a few days after the game. "Let's be obvious, anybody that's down on the ground, you don't kick them."

Losman, who was a rookie with the Bills that season, said he remembered the incident.


http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5321

tony hipchest
09-27-2007, 06:42 PM
Hey - I'm one of the most diehard Steelers fans out there and our guys have played some great football thus far this season, but I think your question is a little hypocritical, considering the quality of the teams the Steelers have played and beaten in the first three. :wink02:

http://www.badmovies.org/movies/billyjack/billyjack8.jpg

the steelers have faced cupcakes. but its a little impossible to stomach patfans pump up their teams strength of schedule lead by

kellen clemens- 1 career start
brent edwards- (1st career game that might as well been his 1st career start)
philip rivers- 19 career starts (including playoffs) 20 if you count last week in GB.

21 career starts

:computer: hmmmmm.

steelers opponents qb's have 56 career starts (smith, losman, alexander).

wow. this reminds me of 2005 where the patriots decimated all jouneymen, rookie, or inexperienced qb's (the only quality qb they beat was a struggle against big ben) and lost to all the good qb's they faced including pro bowler jake plummer in the playoffs.

this also reminds me of when the 6th seed steelers embarassed said plummer a week ,while taking down pro bowlers carson, payton, and hasselbeck on their way to a 5th ring.

MasterOfPuppets
09-27-2007, 06:42 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I would be saying the same if he was wearing a Steeler jersey. Him throwing the elbow is what made my opinion very easy to make.:iagree: not to mention , he seen the ball was already gone , unlike smith and kimo , who were looking at the ground.

Livinginthe past
09-27-2007, 06:43 PM
I nearly always find the most reliable sources to be vanquished opponents.

Of course the biggest problem with the Patriots huge amount of success in recent years, is that we have an almost unlimited supply of those. :toofunny:

Steelerstrength
09-27-2007, 07:15 PM
I nearly always find the most reliable sources to be vanquished opponents.

Of course the biggest problem with the Patriots huge amount of success in recent years, is that we have an almost unlimited supply of those. :toofunny:

An unlimited supply of tapes too! Seems to me that any team that has been found guilty of accumulated cheating over a few years would earn an asterisk for any victories. Exactly what is the punishment in any other sport for proven blatant cheating? Ask McLaren.

I believe that the Putz' have a very good team. I also believe that they had absolutely no reason to cheat.

How does it feel to be a fan of blatant, lying, underhanded, deceiving, thieving, proven perpetual cheaters? Does it bother you in the least that they continuously, with malice, purposefully underminded the integrity of our beloved sport?

You use the term "we" when speaking of them, are you of the same character? If so, then my post is futile. If not, then may I suggest you reconsider your loyalties. As a matter of fact, I think they should change their name. :smile:

tony hipchest
09-27-2007, 07:27 PM
I nearly always find the most reliable sources to be vanquished opponents.
you and your sarcasm should deny it as the truth then. always worked for you inthe past. :thumbsup:

:toofunny:

vanquished opponents? i know youre not including the colts and broncos in there so something must be said for "crushing the [ray lucas led teams of the league] annually".

:cheers:

revefsreleets
09-28-2007, 08:05 AM
12.5 is about the maximum for intentional hits, so the league considers it a cheap shot, regardless what anyone else thinks about it.

Concerning whiny Boston sports fans, I've heard the term "M*ssholes" applied a time or two.