PDA

View Full Version : Dont Blame the O line


moedap
10-01-2007, 07:11 AM
Many on here are blaming the O line for the poor rushing performance but I would have to blame the OC and Willie Parker more than the line. I cant count how many times WP tried to cut back only to find nothing. He should have just kept following his blockers picking up 2 to 3 yards each run rather than trying to spring each one for more. Ben still continues to hold the ball for ever in the pocket. I cant tell if its the receivers not getting seperation or Ben just second guessing his reads. Plus he has a problem throwing to his check down.

I know its only 1 loss but its awfully similar to how they lost last year. Dumb ass mental mistakes coupled with no sense of motivation and poor OC playcalling. Lets just hope they can correct it this year.

83-Steelers-43
10-01-2007, 07:15 AM
I'll continue to blame the o-line. Parker couldn't take two steps out of the backfield before he was met by two cards. I to saw Parker try and cut back only to find nothing.....why? Because he didn't have anything else to work with. The guy can only do so much when having half the defensive line in his face one second after being given the ball.

I put absolutely zero blame on Parker. That o-line looked absolutely horrible yesterday. Were they the only reason we lost yesterday? No. But they were a main reason.

moedap
10-01-2007, 07:19 AM
I'll continue to blame the o-line. Parker couldn't take two steps out of the backfield before he was met by two cards. I to saw Parker try and cut back only to find nothing.....why? Because he didn't have anything else to work with. The guy can only do so much when having half the defensive line in his face.

I put absolutely zero blame on Parker. That o-line looked absolutely horrible yesterday.

When he followed his blockers all the way through he got sprung. When he tried to cutback he was met. The Steelers dont zone block. Follow the damn blockers if they are getting clogged ram it into their backs.

Lord Stiller
10-01-2007, 07:45 AM
O line was horrible and the main reason we lost (more than the coaches or Parker)

dumb thread

moedap
10-01-2007, 08:03 AM
Count 1 mississippi, 2 mississippit, etc.. when Ben goes back to throw. On his sacks i think I was up to 6 mississippi. Look at who got most of the tackles for Arizona. Dockett. Why b/c the OC gameplan allowed the DT penetration trying to run off tackle stuff. If WP knows the DT is already back there why try to cut back keep following the blockers.

Providence Steel
10-01-2007, 08:12 AM
Gotta side with Moedap...

1 net yard with 2 trys from the 4 yard line for Willie Parker. Two yards on the first run by following his blockers, negative 1 yard when he tried to cut it outside...then Ben throws the interception. A Touchdown there changes the game entirely and there is no question that against THE CARDINALS, the Steelers should have scored.

Davenport should be the short yardage guy inside the 5.
Gotta give Willie a little credit though...
He didnt fumble against the toughest defense we faced all year and that is saying a lot.

onthebus36
10-01-2007, 08:21 AM
Gotta side with Moedap...


Of course you do...

How do you blame Parker when he's consistently hit in the backfield?

The O-Line didn't pass protect or run block effectively in this game. Period.

Providence Steel
10-01-2007, 08:27 AM
Of course you do...

How do you blame Parker when he's consistently hit in the backfield?

The O-Line didn't pass protect or run block effectively in this game. Period.

Parker wasn't hit in the backfield on either of the two runs I mentioned. His first went up the middle for 2 yards, his second was outside for negative 1.

I feel that if Davenport was the back in that situation, 3 runs would have ultimately netted a touchdown.

FourThreeMafia
10-01-2007, 08:30 AM
For one, anyone blaming Parker couldnt have watched the game. The blame goes to the OLine first and Arians second. Arians mistake was when he kept running on 1st and 2nd down in the 2nd half, even when they stacked the box and took that away,

The Cards had 8 in the box and dominated the OLine. There were 3 or 4 times that the Cardinals were in our backfield by the time Willie got the ball.

And Ben had to hold the ball. Wilson and Washington arent good at finding the holes in coverage. Ward is, and thats where we missed him. It became very obvious that we need a capable WR to backup Ward. Other than him, we have Holmes and Miller as consistant targets.

Yes, I blame the OLine. The OLine was horrible. They were bad last year and they arent much better this year.

X-Terminator
10-01-2007, 08:33 AM
Oh, and look who's crawled from under his rock? :dang:

Dude, you really need to get off of WP's back. Did he smack your wife and then laugh in your face or something? Sheesh!

You have to either be completely blind or just a blind hater if you couldn't see that the OL was a MAJOR problem yesterday in both run and pass blocking.

83-Steelers-43
10-01-2007, 08:35 AM
FWIW.....

PPG Grade:

Offensive line: D

The unit that was so effective the first three games was disappointing against Arizona. The line had four false-start penalties -- one by everyone but C Sean Mahan -- and did not give Roethlisberger a lot of time to throw, especially in the first half when he was sacked three times. Their inability to create movement for the running game was a big reason for the defeat.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07274/822007-66.stm

Counselor
10-01-2007, 08:45 AM
I'll continue to blame the o-line. Parker couldn't take two steps out of the backfield before he was met by two cards. I to saw Parker try and cut back only to find nothing.....why? Because he didn't have anything else to work with. The guy can only do so much when having half the defensive line in his face one second after being given the ball.

I put absolutely zero blame on Parker. That o-line looked absolutely horrible yesterday. Were they the only reason we lost yesterday? No. But they were a main reason.

Agreed. I don't know how many times I saw guys come completely untouched and hammer FWP in the backfiield on the handoff. No chance to make the wrong cut or "follow your blockers" there.

Also, Ben looked like he was running for his life. I couldn't believe how many sacks he got out of---(without throwing a bad pick---which he would have done last year. ) Not to mention the plays where Ben was trying to throw and the O-line got pushed 10 yards straight back into him.

No they weren't the only reason---but I put blame where it is deserved, and the O-line deserves some.

onthebus36
10-01-2007, 08:46 AM
Gotta give Willie a little credit though...
He didnt fumble against the toughest defense we faced all year and that is saying a lot.

Ummm... he did fumble late in the game but recovered it himself. Did you watch the game or just the hilight reel?

rog
10-01-2007, 08:57 AM
What is wrong with giving credit to the team that played well instead of just ripping the Steelers. I understand the O-line didn't play well and Parker couldn't get going and Ben was running for his life but don't you think the Cards game plan had something to do with the way the game played out. As for the play calling goes if a play works it is a great call but God forbid it doesn't and then the coaches are idiots. Give me a break!

83-Steelers-43
10-01-2007, 09:13 AM
Oh I have no problem giving credit to the Cards d-line. They played great. But I'm also keeping in mind that it's not as if they are one of the better d-lines in the league. I'll give the Cards credit for taking advantage of the opportunities given to them.

I'll still say it had more to do with our o-line looking like the French in front of a panzer tank division than it did with the Cards having such a great and superior d-line.

"The quality of our play wasn't up to snuff today," - Mike Tomlin

SteelFist
10-01-2007, 09:26 AM
Personally, I blame everyone.

At times I did blame Willie for not running North and South. There were times when the OL didn't get much of a push.

But where I blame the OL the most was for pass protection and penalties. Sometimes Ben was off the mark. Sometimes the WR's weren't on the same page. An example would be the throw to Wilson where Ben threw it behind the shoulder of the DB and all Wilson had to do was turn and look for the ball.....and then catch it. But he didn't even look, and I balme Ced for that one. You have to be able to read the defense and expect the quick pass. Ben had been sacked and hurried plenty at that point in the game. The INT in the red zone was all on Ben. There were a couple of times where Ben could have made plays with his feet but instead threw ill-advised passes. Then there were two bad plays from Nate; One where he wasn't even looking for the ball (When he should have been), and another when he dropped it.

There is plenty of room to spread the blame ladies & gentlemen. In any game there WILL be mistakes. In this game, they made too many. And losing two Pro Bowl starters on defense didn't help.

onthebus36
10-01-2007, 11:26 AM
I'll still say it had more to do with our o-line looking like the French in front of a panzer tank division than it did with the Cards having such a great and superior d-line.

That's a good analogy. Execution and tactical flexibility in the military equals execution and game planning in football.

I do agree the Cards deserve a ton of credit. They clearly wanted this game and their D came out hitting and, as someone said, "out-Steelered the Steelers." I also think Whiz and Grimm drew up a good gameplan and the Cards executed better than we did.

Michael Keller
10-01-2007, 11:49 AM
Moedap I will try to be respectful and considerate. The Offensive line was the by far the biggest problem yesterday. Ben needs to get smarter and I believe he will. He was off on his passes, no question. There was far too much pressure on Ben being applied for a team that was playing the run. Parker did the very best he could but he had no operating room whatsoever.

The offensive line not only failed to match up physically but there were too many penalties on the Ol indicating anxiety and unsuredness. We know what we have with Ben and I believe he will progress as the year and his career goes on. Parker is a trooper and deserves no blame at all.

NOW THE OFFENSIVE LINE, I BELIEVE THE THIS IS IS THE BIG UNKNOWN. It could be one bad game or the Ol could be THE PROBLEM AREA . I have seen this many timesat the begining of the season the Ol looks weak but as the season progresses it gets better. Lets hope. It is a long season and players and teams can improve and they can get worse. This whereI believe coaching factors in along with player leadership on the practice and game field. At least we are 3-1 and we are not Charger fans.

Michael

SteelerFanInCA
10-01-2007, 12:04 PM
All though the O Line played terrible, I have to agree there were many reasons why we lost this game. This was definitely a team loss.

Hopefully they will learn from it and come back strong next week.

Edman
10-01-2007, 01:43 PM
The whole team made 'the news' this week really...

Plus there's injuries to Hampton and Polamalu, that is not good news at all. This is the first sign of adversity the Tomlin Steelers face. Let's see how they handle it. Do they fold next week vs the Seahags(Who are looking for blood for XL) or suck it up, come back and fight?

Steelerstrength
10-01-2007, 01:52 PM
For one, anyone blaming Parker couldnt have watched the game. The blame goes to the OLine first and Arians second. Arians mistake was when he kept running on 1st and 2nd down in the 2nd half, even when they stacked the box and took that away,

The Cards had 8 in the box and dominated the OLine. There were 3 or 4 times that the Cardinals were in our backfield by the time Willie got the ball.

And Ben had to hold the ball. Wilson and Washington arent good at finding the holes in coverage. Ward is, and thats where we missed him. It became very obvious that we need a capable WR to backup Ward. Other than him, we have Holmes and Miller as consistant targets.

Yes, I blame the OLine. The OLine was horrible. They were bad last year and they arent much better this year.

I agree with most of your post! When a team has 8 in the box, on D, then why would you continue to call a run, when it has been shut down over and over? Arians continued to run on 1st & 2nd, and the D was prepared. The Cards filled the gaps very well with more rushers than blockers. It reminded me of our former smash-mouth running teams, as far as play calling, but not the results. Arians called a horrible third quarter, and most of the 4th Q.

However, when we opened up the passing game we were very successful. (i.e. last scoring drive) I have to admit that I am very uncomfortable every time Ben throws to Washington. He's always tipping the ball, and not catching it, which pisses me off. (Sorry Nate, please prove me wrong about you. I want to like you, really!)

All that said, we lost Troy, had no Ward, and played a very motivated team who wanted the W more than we did. An excellent game plan by the Cards!

Sharkissle29
10-01-2007, 04:05 PM
completely o-lines fault. i dont know how many times starks guy just ran through him and met willie 4 yards in the backfield. retarded thread.

Dino 6 Rings
10-01-2007, 04:18 PM
Oline, bad timed penalties, predictable play calling, all of it contributed to the loss...Wilson becoming invisible...all of it...Win as a team, lose as a team.

I am disgusted with the lackluster performance and expect better from us.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-01-2007, 04:19 PM
The Oline sucked and even a blind man could have seen that.......They didn't pass block or run block at all yesterday.....Plus all the false start penalties......It was one of the worst performances I have ever seen out of a Steelers offensive line......

Dino 6 Rings
10-01-2007, 04:42 PM
The O-Line isn't the reason Davis was offsides on the punt. The O-Line isn't the reason we only had 2 sacks and zero picks. The oline isn't the reason our running game...well yeah, they are the reason we had no running game...but you get the point...it was an over all, from top to bottom, from punter (although this punter is a stud) to the Head Coaches fault. And even my fault for not wearing my lucky socks at kickoff...dang it...I'll take the heat for that foul up...my bad peeps.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-01-2007, 04:49 PM
The Oline gave up 4 sacks.......Dockett had 3 alone...Plus how many sacks did Ben escape from yesterday? Probably another 3-4..........The Oline was the major reason for the offensive struggles yesterday and the fact the Cards did play some good defense....Adrian Wilson was all over the field....

Dino 6 Rings
10-01-2007, 04:57 PM
Wilson is a great safety and I like the fact that Polamalu has changed the way the position is changed, Wilson being the example of that. He does what troy does, comes up for the run, covers deep, lays big hits. He was really good.

I guess things could be worse...we could have the Eagles O-line...12 sacks last night, 6 by one guy...that's gross...that gets people fired.

Stlrs4Life
10-01-2007, 05:06 PM
I'll continue to blame the o-line. Parker couldn't take two steps out of the backfield before he was met by two cards. I to saw Parker try and cut back only to find nothing.....why? Because he didn't have anything else to work with. The guy can only do so much when having half the defensive line in his face one second after being given the ball.

I put absolutely zero blame on Parker. That o-line looked absolutely horrible yesterday. Were they the only reason we lost yesterday? No. But they were a main reason.


I agree. There was times that he tried to spring it outside, not because he was waiting for his blockers, it's because they were not there.

steelpride12
10-01-2007, 05:57 PM
Of course you do...

How do you blame Parker when he's consistently hit in the backfield?

The O-Line didn't pass protect or run block effectively in this game. Period.

Agreed the O-Line was met all game and pushed back like 2 yards every play. Parker did his best to make plays but i know thats tough to do with no lie.

X-Terminator
10-01-2007, 06:04 PM
Sad to say, all of the concern we had over the OL coming into the season came to fruition yesterday. Even in the wins, I felt the OL was inconsistent, especially in pass protection. Hopefully these guys will get better as the season goes on, but honestly I don't have a whole lot of confidence in them as a unit.

This MUST be priority #1A (after Ben's contract extension) in the off season.

TroysBadDawg
10-01-2007, 06:04 PM
I have been reading this thread and just feel the need to voice an outsiders opinion, Please con't blast me into outer space for it, but I personally think the team came into this game over confident. They took this game to lightly and by the time they got their collective heads on straight it was to late. I blame the entire team and coaching staff for the loss. But that is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth... not much.. with it and a dollar you might get a cup of coffee somewhere. But look on the bright side the Bungles are going to get thier colletive arse handed to them tonight. Chad is saying he is going to put up 40+points himself.

Providence Steel
10-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Oh, and look who's crawled from under his rock? :dang:

Dude, you really need to get off of WP's back. Did he smack your wife and then laugh in your face or something? Sheesh!

You have to either be completely blind or just a blind hater if you couldn't see that the OL was a MAJOR problem yesterday in both run and pass blocking.

There were major problems everywhere...not just the O-Line. Willie Parker didn't win any fans yesterday either. Tell me how Davenport gets 2 runs for 16 yards and Parker ends up with only twice as many yards on nearly 10X the carries...

Did the O-line magically play better when Davenport carried the ball?

Was every Parker carry a bad play for the offensive line?
Even if it was...put the ball in Davenports hands more often, especially inside the 5 where Tumbleweed Parker couldn't punch it in.

Don't sit here and spout crap about Willie's performance being the result of poor play on the O-Line when Davenport seemed to get it done on his limited carries. Blame goes all around and for a guy who consistently puts the rock on the ground (Parker) I'll be all over him till he shows me a little more consistency and a little less flash and glamor.

Like I said before...take away the big runs and Parker looks like a lower tier RB in the NFL. 19 for 37 yards with 20 yards coming on one play and a fumble looks pretty terrible to me. Minus the big run, WIllie is 18 rushes for 17 yards. Man...that guy should be in the Pro Bowl...where he showed, against a bunch of half-playing guys on defense, he couldn't get into the end zone from inside the 5 AGAIN.

Willie Parker is like the Three-Point shot. It is fun to see it when it works but if you plan on relying on it as a game plan then you'll Live & Die with it.

fansince'76
10-02-2007, 09:42 AM
Like I said before...take away the big runs and Parker looks like a lower tier RB in the NFL.

Broken record time again. :coffee: You're right, dude - I saw an uncanny similarity between our O-line Sunday and the Cowboys' O-lines of the early '90s. :rolleyes:

Lord Stiller
10-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Like I said before...take away the big runs and Parker looks like a lower tier RB in the NFL.

You could say the same thing about Barry Sanders :coffee:

The Steelers running game has ALWAYS been built around the offensive line. I expect atleast 2 O-linemen taken on the first day of next year's draft. You put Parker behind on of those dominant lines we had in the 90's and he could go over 2000 yards

X-Terminator
10-02-2007, 09:51 AM
Seriously dude...if this is ALL you're going to do on this board is hate and blame Parker for everything, even the OL's woes, then you really need to tell your story walking. This is getting extremely old and I'm getting extremely bored. You haven't talked about ANYTHING ELSE since you've joined, and to me, that says OBSESSION. There are treatments for that, you know. I suggest you get some.

Counselor
10-02-2007, 10:00 AM
I have been reading this thread and just feel the need to voice an outsiders opinion, Please con't blast me into outer space for it, but I personally think the team came into this game over confident. They took this game to lightly and by the time they got their collective heads on straight it was to late. I blame the entire team and coaching staff for the loss. But that is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth... not much.. with it and a dollar you might get a cup of coffee somewhere. But look on the bright side the Bungles are going to get thier colletive arse handed to them tonight. Chad is saying he is going to put up 40+points himself.

Not going to say you are wrong. Maybe a little over confident, maybe (at 3-0) not as hungry as the other team, and maybe a little "tight" because of the sideline stories of the coaching situations. And lets face it, Whiz had his team read to play and well-schooled on the Steelers tendancies.

Edman
10-02-2007, 10:19 AM
Good God...

More consistency? He had 3 consecutive 100 yard games this year up to this game. Yes, I blame the O-Line for that too. They did a great job blocking until the Arizona game.

TroysBadDawg
10-02-2007, 10:40 AM
Not going to say you are wrong. Maybe a little over confident, maybe (at 3-0) not as hungry as the other team, and maybe a little "tight" because of the sideline stories of the coaching situations. And lets face it, Whiz had his team read to play and well-schooled on the Steelers tendancies.

Granted but that is coaching isn't it. Shouldn't the your coaching have been on the ball to have prevented it? I am just trying to be the devils advocate here. Plus I am pissed, I lost some money on the game, and I don't usually bet.

I feel the coaches let the team down as well as the team let them selves down. That is all I am saying. again take it for what it is worth, not much, especially from a Browns fan.

fansince'76
10-02-2007, 02:32 PM
Granted but that is coaching isn't it. Shouldn't the your coaching have been on the ball to have prevented it? I am just trying to be the devils advocate here. Plus I am pissed, I lost some money on the game, and I don't usually bet.

I feel the coaches let the team down as well as the team let them selves down. That is all I am saying. again take it for what it is worth, not much, especially from a Browns fan.

No problem, TBD. You make valid points and I have also kept in mind that it's Tomlin's rookie season as a HC - I expect some growing pains.

thebus36idf
10-02-2007, 02:34 PM
Gotta side with Moedap...

Davenport should be the short yardage guy inside the 5.
Gotta give Willie a little credit though...
He didnt fumble against the toughest defense we faced all year and that is saying a lot.

I hit on this a couple of weeks ago, and here we are again. Why is willie trying to jam it in, when Davenport is much more of a load? Play action may even work better, because defenses know they need more men to jam Davenport. I think we abandoned the run way to early. Willie had some good runs in the second half when the ariz defense was getting tired. I will say it again. We should wear them down with Nahj.Then hit them with speed. I believe we will then have success. Look back most of willie's success is in the second half.
Black & Gold Peace & Grace

Dino 6 Rings
10-02-2007, 04:57 PM
I see the Parker hater is back...let me guess Willie shouldn't be our starter cause he fumbled and didn't have 100 yards...

Dude, He's the running back, maybe you'd prefer FU or Famous Amos, but I'll take the current holder of the longest TD run in superbowl history over either of them or over Davenport who has done zero in the pros but be back up since he left Miami.

As for the fumble...watch the tape (that's replay for your non owners of "the tape) and look at what Willie sees the second the ball is placed near his stomach....TWO Defensive linemen grinning with their fangs and blood stained eyes...no-blocking on that play at all.

Providence Steel
10-03-2007, 08:57 AM
Seriously dude...if this is ALL you're going to do on this board is hate and blame Parker for everything, even the OL's woes, then you really need to tell your story walking. This is getting extremely old and I'm getting extremely bored. You haven't talked about ANYTHING ELSE since you've joined, and to me, that says OBSESSION. There are treatments for that, you know. I suggest you get some.

If you have a problem with the postings then you can quit responding to them. Cool? And by the way, I've posted here outside of the Parker issue as well.

I'm hammering the point home because MOST people are oblivious to the failings of Parker. The Glitz and flash blind you to the REAL problems the guy has. Pointing out problems is not hating! As far as most fans, commentators and posters on this forum are concerned, Willie Parker can do no wrong. Guess that's fine but God forbid the coaches feel that way...We'll end up waiting another 25 years for a super bowl appearance. Still haven't figured out 5 fumbles inthe last seven games is a good thing. How does a fan rationalize that away? How is pointing out this VERY RELEVANT statistic a bad thing and how does that equate to hating?

Parker dropped the ball. The presence of two linemen in the backfield again should not cause a "Pro Bowl" (sarcastically) running back to drop the ball...AGAIN. Remember...those 100 yard games came against creampuffs of the NFL and while the Cardinals are no juggernaut of the league, I guess they are good enough to shut down our "Pro Bowl" running back.

Our games against the Ravens, and Patriots are gonna be REALLY ugly.

Touchdown runs two years ago (one of the only good runs the guy had all day) don't do anything for me today. Parkers success on a WINNING football team has come when he was a change of pace back...not the starter.

Providence Steel
10-03-2007, 09:01 AM
Broken record time again. :coffee: You're right, dude - I saw an uncanny similarity between our O-line Sunday and the Cowboys' O-lines of the early '90s. :rolleyes:

Smart arssed comments are funny but don't really answer the real questions...do they? ....


5 fumbles in 7 games

Cant get in from inside the 5

Davenport...2 carries for 16 yards (did the O-line channel the 90's Cowboys on these two plays alone?)

fansince'76
10-03-2007, 09:13 AM
Smart arssed comments are funny but don't really answer the real questions...do they? ....

What "questions?" So far, all you've done is bitch about Parker. :coffee:

X-Terminator
10-03-2007, 10:15 AM
If you have a problem with the postings then you can quit responding to them. Cool?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but:

And by the way, I've posted here outside of the Parker issue as well.

What, 2 or 3 times? The OVERWHELMING majority of your posts have been on this issue alone. Good grief, you're more single-minded than Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore.

I'm hammering the point home because MOST people are oblivious to the failings of Parker.

No, you're "hammering the point home" because you're obsessed with pointing out every single flaw Parker has. It sure as heck isn't to "educate" everyone, as if we're all kindergarteners with short attention spans.

The Glitz and flash blind you to the REAL problems the guy has.

No they haven't. If you'd actually taken time between writing your Parker-bashing posts, you'd see that I and many others have raised concerns about his failings, including his fumbling. Multiple times, in fact. The only difference is that I don't go on...and on...and on...and on about it like you do.

Pointing out problems is not hating!

No, it isn't. I'll grant you that. But as much as you go on about it, how can anyone else view it any other way but hating? Don't want to be labeled a hater? Quit talking about it all the time.

As far as most fans, commentators and posters on this forum are concerned, Willie Parker can do no wrong.

Wrong.

Guess that's fine but God forbid the coaches feel that way...

Find me ONE coach who doesn't have confidence in Willie Parker or have implied or said that he can do no wrong. I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting for a long time.

We'll end up waiting another 25 years for a super bowl appearance.

Please tell me you aren't saying that if we have to wait that long, it'll be Willie Parker's fault. Your credibility is at stake.

Still haven't figured out 5 fumbles inthe last seven games is a good thing.

Who here has said that?

How does a fan rationalize that away?

Who's rationalized it away?

How is pointing out this VERY RELEVANT statistic a bad thing and how does that equate to hating?

It isn't, and it doesn't. But once again, Mr. Broken Record, continuing to talk about it ad nauseum and scarcely mentioning all the things he does do well is why people label you a hater. Any of this sinking in yet?

Parker dropped the ball.

And I say it was a bad handoff based on watching the replay of the game on my DVD recorder. It still counts as a "dropped ball," but it wasn't 100% his fault.

The presence of two linemen in the backfield again should not cause a "Pro Bowl" (sarcastically) running back to drop the ball...AGAIN.

Hey, shiznit happens. Willie Parker is not the first RB, Pro Bowl or otherwise, it has happened to, and he certainly won't be the last.

Remember...those 100 yard games came against creampuffs of the NFL and while the Cardinals are no juggernaut of the league, I guess they are good enough to shut down our "Pro Bowl" running back.

So in your mind, then, we should just throw those out because they came against creampuffs? Well then in that case, Jamal Lewis should forfeit his rushing record-setting performance against the Browns 3 years ago since, after all, it came against a "creampuff." Or, your personal favorite, Barry Sanders wasn't really a great back if you took away all of his long runs. :dang: It also should be noted that neither Frank Gore, Shaun Alexander nor Willis McGahee gained 100 yards against the Cards this season.

Our games against the Ravens, and Patriots are gonna be REALLY ugly.

Oh, so you can predict the future now?

Touchdown runs two years ago (one of the only good runs the guy had all day) don't do anything for me today.

Of course you don't, because you're a typical "what have you done for me lately" Steelers fan.

Parkers success on a WINNING football team has come when he was a change of pace back...not the starter.

Parker wasn't the starter in 2005? Who was that guy wearing #39 that gained 1,202 yards and had that (unimportant to you) 75-yard run in the Super Bowl then?

I'd call that success on a WINNING football team. Don't get much better than winning the whole damn thing as the starting RB.

Edman
10-03-2007, 10:46 AM
Willie is not perfect. Nobody on Steelers Fever said he was. I'll be right out there to admit that Willie had a bad game in Arizona. Almost the whole team had a bad day. The fumbled handoffs? Now that was his fault.

The problem is that you have this personal vendetta against Parker. You disappear when Willie has a good game, then you come right back and bashing when he has a bad day. You continue to harp on his performance in the freaking PRO BOWL to support your argument that Willie is not a good RB. If Pro Bowl performances are what guages player worth, then Carson Palmer and the Bungles should have a Super Bowl Title or more playoff appearances by now(They don't).

BurghZ0n3
10-03-2007, 10:59 AM
steelreserve.....:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny: u crack me up!!! For me, blame the field designer who scratch out the Steelers Logo at the center & no clear trademark at both endzones!!! :helmet:

XxKnightxX
10-03-2007, 11:16 AM
from my view of the game and including that im an offensive lineman myself, the O line just went haywire in that game and its the second time they do it in that stadium. (yeah i havent forgotten that pre season game either). They just seemed so stiff and clueless and couldnt create a consistent running game Credit to the cards defense and bad day for parker but i always tell running backs if they cant find room to run to aim their helmet in the O lines back to give them a wake up call.

steel striker
10-03-2007, 06:11 PM
Sorry I had tech. difficulties with last post. Like I was saying we played bad on the oline and, we still only lose by 7. Every team has a bad game and, remember a few years ago the past lost to the fins in a shocker. Having said that i think we will bounce back this week. I still think in goal line situations we should use Davenport or Davis. The other thing in the running game we need to bring in Kreider the most under rated fb.

Haiku_Dirtt
10-03-2007, 08:04 PM
[QUOTE=SteelFist;302659]Personally, I blame everyone. QUOTE]

The fans especially. Did you SEE how many Cardinal fans were at that game? Shameful display by Steeler fans everywhere?

Even the year we won the Super Bowl watching Max Starks tripping over his feet was a topic of many a thread in here. Simmons' battle with diabetes was another pitfall for the line. Everyone knew when Faneca's contract came due.

We locked up Marvel Smith for the future which is today. And I would say he is not having a ProBowl year...so far.

Tomlin didn't throw those guys under the bus this game because at least they weren't being "young and dumb." They just didn't play well together. And if they don't play any better then we ain't goin' past the first round.

Willie Colon might be a badass from the Bronx but in football terms he's a pup. I hoping another week of practice (We're talking about practice) is what we need to get better there.

83-Steelers-43
10-03-2007, 08:27 PM
When it came to the o-line, Simmons and Smith in particular stuck out to me. Smith got lit up more times than a Cheech and Chong bong. Pathetic. But hey, it's Parker's fault right? I mean, he should have had a twin engine jet up his ass to fly him above the defensive line. Let's be real here.

Stlrs4Life
10-03-2007, 08:51 PM
Sad to say, all of the concern we had over the OL coming into the season came to fruition yesterday. Even in the wins, I felt the OL was inconsistent, especially in pass protection. Hopefully these guys will get better as the season goes on, but honestly I don't have a whole lot of confidence in them as a unit.

This MUST be priority #1A (after Ben's contract extension) in the off season.


Exactly, my sentinents also.

Elvis
10-04-2007, 03:36 AM
Ahh... I am getting used to Alan Faneca giving up a few
plays a game, so it doesnt bother me anymore to hear
everyone call him one of the leagues' very
best.
I just think that Whiz and the Cardinals just knew alot of the old
terminology of our offensive scheme.
:tt02:

Lord Stiller
10-04-2007, 09:37 AM
I still think in goal line situations we should use Davenport or Davis. The other thing in the running game we need to bring in Kreider the most under rated fb.

I agree completely. Also, for goal line we should bring in Starks as the 3rd TE. He is a road grader.

Davis runs with power, we should give him a shot

Providence Steel
10-04-2007, 10:16 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but:



What, 2 or 3 times? The OVERWHELMING majority of your posts have been on this issue alone. Good grief, you're more single-minded than Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore.



No, you're "hammering the point home" because you're obsessed with pointing out every single flaw Parker has. It sure as heck isn't to "educate" everyone, as if we're all kindergarteners with short attention spans.



No they haven't. If you'd actually taken time between writing your Parker-bashing posts, you'd see that I and many others have raised concerns about his failings, including his fumbling. Multiple times, in fact. The only difference is that I don't go on...and on...and on...and on about it like you do.



No, it isn't. I'll grant you that. But as much as you go on about it, how can anyone else view it any other way but hating? Don't want to be labeled a hater? Quit talking about it all the time.



Wrong.



Find me ONE coach who doesn't have confidence in Willie Parker or have implied or said that he can do no wrong. I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting for a long time.



Please tell me you aren't saying that if we have to wait that long, it'll be Willie Parker's fault. Your credibility is at stake.



Who here has said that?



Who's rationalized it away?



It isn't, and it doesn't. But once again, Mr. Broken Record, continuing to talk about it ad nauseum and scarcely mentioning all the things he does do well is why people label you a hater. Any of this sinking in yet?



And I say it was a bad handoff based on watching the replay of the game on my DVD recorder. It still counts as a "dropped ball," but it wasn't 100% his fault.



Hey, shiznit happens. Willie Parker is not the first RB, Pro Bowl or otherwise, it has happened to, and he certainly won't be the last.



So in your mind, then, we should just throw those out because they came against creampuffs? Well then in that case, Jamal Lewis should forfeit his rushing record-setting performance against the Browns 3 years ago since, after all, it came against a "creampuff." Or, your personal favorite, Barry Sanders wasn't really a great back if you took away all of his long runs. :dang: It also should be noted that neither Frank Gore, Shaun Alexander nor Willis McGahee gained 100 yards against the Cards this season.



Oh, so you can predict the future now?



Of course you don't, because you're a typical "what have you done for me lately" Steelers fan.



Parker wasn't the starter in 2005? Who was that guy wearing #39 that gained 1,202 yards and had that (unimportant to you) 75-yard run in the Super Bowl then?

I'd call that success on a WINNING football team. Don't get much better than winning the whole damn thing as the starting RB.

I'm glad I've given you a lot to think and write about...If you dont like the posts, you can ignore me.
But you did spend a lot of vocabulary RATIONALIZING Parkers failings...shiznit happens???

By the way...Parkers super bowl year was spent in the backfield with a tandem of Bettis and Staley who together rushed for over 1000 yards that season. Was it Parker that bowled over Urlacher that year in a key victory against the Bears or was the someone else? Parkers success on a winning football team that year had more to do with Bettis and Staley then nearly anyone here gives them credit for. Without Bettis and Staley...no Superbowl.

Shiznit should not be happening 5 times in 7 games. Still waiting for someone to eloquently rationalize that stat away.

As said before...I wish to continue pointing out that Parker is NOT the guy for the Steelers...not the MAIN guy. There needs to be someone else. I said the same thing about Malone, Brister and Stewart and bet that NO-ONE here would have taken offense at the constant criticism one would have dished out in their direction.

While I'm not a what have you done for me lately fan, I'm no homer either...homer.

Providence Steel
10-04-2007, 10:23 AM
Willie is not perfect. Nobody on Steelers Fever said he was. I'll be right out there to admit that Willie had a bad game in Arizona. Almost the whole team had a bad day. The fumbled handoffs? Now that was his fault.

The problem is that you have this personal vendetta against Parker. You disappear when Willie has a good game, then you come right back and bashing when he has a bad day. You continue to harp on his performance in the freaking PRO BOWL to support your argument that Willie is not a good RB. If Pro Bowl performances are what guages player worth, then Carson Palmer and the Bungles should have a Super Bowl Title or more playoff appearances by now(They don't).


I was back here after the Buffalo game supporting Willie for a good performance and no fumbles.

The ProBowl is ONE issue that people like to bring up because it is a relatively unimportant game. If it was so unimportant how did Tomlinson and Johnson run all over the field against defensive guys playing a half hearted game and Parker goes out and flops. Maybe it was just ANOTHER bad game for him. At least he didn't fumble.

I'll go on record right now as saying that the Steelers will NEVER return to the Super Bowl without a battering-ram RB to share (700 yards a season) the workload with Parker. Take it to the bank...

tony hipchest
10-04-2007, 10:24 AM
As said before...I wish to continue pointing out that Parker is NOT the guy for the Steelers...not the MAIN guy. ...and continue, and continue, and continue....

shoot, have at it. and if you wish to point at the sky and say that it is falling, feel free to do that too.

Lord Stiller
10-04-2007, 10:34 AM
I'm glad I've given you a lot to think and write about...If you dont like the posts, you can ignore me.
But you did spend a lot of vocabulary RATIONALIZING Parkers failings...shiznit happens???

By the way...Parkers super bowl year was spent in the backfield with a tandem of Bettis and Staley who together rushed for over 1000 yards that season. Was it Parker that bowled over Urlacher that year in a key victory against the Bears or was the someone else? Parkers success on a winning football team that year had more to do with Bettis and Staley then nearly anyone here gives them credit for. Without Bettis and Staley...no Superbowl.

Shiznit should not be happening 5 times in 7 games. Still waiting for someone to eloquently rationalize that stat away.

As said before...I wish to continue pointing out that Parker is NOT the guy for the Steelers...not the MAIN guy. There needs to be someone else. I said the same thing about Malone, Brister and Stewart and bet that NO-ONE here would have taken offense at the constant criticism one would have dished out in their direction.

While I'm not a what have you done for me lately fan, I'm no homer either...homer.

LOL. I respect your opinion and all but STALEY???

STALEY???

Gimme a friggin break. He did nothing that year except eat up our salary cap and stand next to Cowher on the sidelines

revefsreleets
10-04-2007, 10:50 AM
The oline did not play it's best game, but I'm sure a lot of that had to do with the scheme. We also were not the most imaginitive playcalling team in history either. I'm not ready to throw the line under the bus just yet after one bad game.

As for comparing Parker's performance to Davenport's, that's insane. A lot of Parker's carries that were sniffed out came in obvious running situations where the Steelers did the Cards a big favor and obviously ran. Davenport comes in and picks up a couple nice gains on 3rd and long or obvious passing downs by surprising the defense with draws and the like. It happens every game. If you're dead set on criticising Parker, fine, since everyone's opinion is obviously welcome here, but don't make ridiculous apples to oranges comparisons, and don't be shocked when people who know more about the game take umbrage with some of your more foolish assessments.

Thought I'd say a bit more about Davenport. His first run was a nice 8 yarder, which sounds great, except we were in a spread formation and it was 3rd and 28! His next run came on a 3rd and 1, BUT we were in the shotgun and the field was once again spread.

Steelman16
10-04-2007, 10:51 AM
I'll go on record right now as saying that the Steelers will NEVER return to the Super Bowl without a battering-ram RB to share (700 yards a season) the workload with Parker. Take it to the bank...

Okiedoke, watcha gonna buy me when they go to the super bowl with FWP as the MVP?

P-Steel, you haveta be the biggest Willie Parker hater I've ever heard. I mean really. :blah: Put Willie behind Dallas' or New Englands O-Line and les' see what he brings, eh?

Git off his back for once. He leads the league in rushing, (or maybe in the top 5 now after last game). Get over it. That's all I have to say to you.

onthebus36
10-04-2007, 11:03 AM
Here's a good OBJECTIVE article that has a lot good analysis of Willie and O-line.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/10/02/ramblings/any-given-sunday/5548/

"These complaints about the Pittsburgh running game do not mean that Parker is a bad back. The problem is that Parker struggles to gain consistent yardage on his own. Without a hole, Parker’s substantial big play ability is eliminated. Parker had no real chances on Sunday. He gained only 37 yards on 19 carries. Only six carries gained as many as three yards and more than half his yards came on a 20-yard scamper.

When a team stymies the running game, the key for an offense is to make them pay in the passing game. The Steelers had some success with this on Sunday, but the passing game struggled for consistency. Ben Roethlisberger has made a career out of highly efficient play in limited numbers of throws. He did make some plays down the field this week, but was put into too many difficult situations thanks to the anemic ground attack and poor pass protection."

I don't necessarily like everything they say, but I think it's pretty fair and accurate article. The run sets up the pass and the pass sets up the run. If the O-Line prevents either from happening, you lose.

X-Terminator
10-04-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm glad I've given you a lot to think and write about...If you dont like the posts, you can ignore me.
But you did spend a lot of vocabulary RATIONALIZING Parkers failings...shiznit happens???

Boy, you have a funny definition of "rationalization." If I was rationalizing it, I would say that the fumbles don't matter AT ALL and that it isn't a problem. Have I said that? NO. I HAVE, however, pointed out to the contrary many times. I've said that he needs to get the fumbling under control. I've said that the coaching staff had to change the way he holds the ball when he's running, ala Tiki Barber, to minimize or prevent him from fumbling so often. The difference is, AGAIN, is that you refuse to let it go, or at least not talk about it so much! THAT is why you are labeled a hater, and THAT is why I and other people have been giving you shit.

If you can't see that, then you officially have the strongest clue shields I've ever seen.

By the way...Parkers super bowl year was spent in the backfield with a tandem of Bettis and Staley who together rushed for over 1000 yards that season. Was it Parker that bowled over Urlacher that year in a key victory against the Bears or was the someone else? Parkers success on a winning football team that year had more to do with Bettis and Staley then nearly anyone here gives them credit for. Without Bettis and Staley...no Superbowl.

Bettis gained 368 yards in 2005. Duce "Sweatsuit Model" Staley had just 148 yards and spent most of the season injured and taking up space on the sideline. If you do the math, that is 516 yards - FAR short of your 1000 yards claim that apparently you just pulled out of your ass. Even if you add in Verron Haynes' 274 yards, that STILL doesn't come close to 1000 yards. Willie Parker gained 1,202 yards BY HIMSELF.

You make this too easy.

If you're going to come over here and wax philosophical about how horrible Parker is, the least you can do is do your homework.

Shiznit should not be happening 5 times in 7 games. Still waiting for someone to eloquently rationalize that stat away.

And I'm still waiting for you to show me where anyone tried to.

As said before...I wish to continue pointing out that Parker is NOT the guy for the Steelers...not the MAIN guy. There needs to be someone else. I said the same thing about Malone, Brister and Stewart and bet that NO-ONE here would have taken offense at the constant criticism one would have dished out in their direction.

More than likely not, but you still aren't getting the fact that BECAUSE you choose to continue pointing it out is why people take offense to it.

Yep, you do have the strongest clue shields in the world.

While I'm not a what have you done for me lately fan, I'm no homer either...homer.

Ah yes, the last refuge of a beaten man. If someone disagrees with you, they MUST be a homer. I could come up with hundreds of posts on this board alone that says I'm not a homer, but honestly, I'm not going to waste any more time or give you any more of the attention that you desperately crave.

NateC
10-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Why Are you Arguing on Our Boards? Go Cheer On A New Team, if you dont like William Parker and think he sucks. Good. Let him think that.. this Guy Providence is from Rhode Island with no team of his Own and he Jumped on Our Band Wagon to Talk Crap and Cause Problems. DO not even respond to his Blather.

WIllie is Huge Part of Why we Have our 5th ring. and he is gonna be a huge part of anything else we intend to acomplish.

Providence... Go root for New England... they have a preety big back on their team..
And dont bother saying anything else. you already got Ripped up for stating Opinions that to this point have no merit... Oh yeah you pointed out his Fumbles, your a Great Analyst.

GO STEELERS.... and Im sorry, lol WHAT is WRONG WITH BEING A HOMER? LOL.
Come this Part of Year. Im a DIE HARD STEELER FAN ... HOMER... I DAMN SURE HOPE IM CONSIDERED ONE.. YOU GROW UP IN THE BURGH AND SEE how YOU TURN OUT.... Alot more Respectful/Insightful than you turned out im sure. :wink02:

Providence Steel
10-04-2007, 01:15 PM
Boy, you have a funny definition of "rationalization." If I was rationalizing it, I would say that the fumbles don't matter AT ALL and that it isn't a problem. Have I said that? NO. I HAVE, however, pointed out to the contrary many times. I've said that he needs to get the fumbling under control. I've said that the coaching staff had to change the way he holds the ball when he's running, ala Tiki Barber, to minimize or prevent him from fumbling so often. The difference is, AGAIN, is that you refuse to let it go, or at least not talk about it so much! THAT is why you are labeled a hater, and THAT is why I and other people have been giving you shit.

If you can't see that, then you officially have the strongest clue shields I've ever seen.

Glad to see I'm under your skin...reverting to vulgarities...sign of a very strong man. It took a first time poster to bring up Parkers fumbling problems and have I have getting it since the beginning. You're (group) love of Parker and consistency in throwing the O-line under the bus as an excuse for an inadequate running game (against better teams) seems just as one sided as my complaining about Parker. As stated before, I like having Parker on the team...but not as the starting RB.



Bettis gained 368 yards in 2005. Duce "Sweatsuit Model" Staley had just 148 yards and spent most of the season injured and taking up space on the sideline. If you do the math, that is 516 yards - FAR short of your 1000 yards claim that apparently you just pulled out of your ass. Even if you add in Verron Haynes' 274 yards, that STILL doesn't come close to 1000 yards. Willie Parker gained 1,202 yards BY HIMSELF.

You make this too easy.

Yes, I was incorrect. Man enough to admit it as well. I was going on remembering facts that just weren't real. Cant tell why I though this. I bet I was using the the previous year (2004) as a reference. Bettis had 941 and Staley...yes STALEY had 800 something...but that point is irrelevant. I've been fighting this argument since the 3rd game of last year and I'm getting some facts confused. Point taken.

If you're going to come over here and wax philosophical about how horrible Parker is, the least you can do is do your homework.



And I'm still waiting for you to show me where anyone tried to.

Someone here certainly stated that having 2 defensive guys in the backfield would scare a pro bowl running back into mishandling a handoff. Was that you???Others were rationalizing that Willie's 100 plus yard day (against NFL creampuffs...the Browns) overshadowed his fumble that day.



More than likely not, but you still aren't getting the fact that BECAUSE you choose to continue pointing it out is why people take offense to it.

Yep, you do have the strongest clue shields in the world.

Why dont you just call me a poopy head and tell me I have the cooties?

Seems fine for people to come to the forum and continually throw the O-Line under the bus. Is this ok because you agree with it? My posts are not ok because you don't agree with it? Seems like I have to be a homer, get in line with the rest of the crowd in order to not take "it" from you and the like. This attitude isn't one I share.


Ah yes, the last refuge of a beaten man. If someone disagrees with you, they MUST be a homer. I could come up with hundreds of posts on this board alone that says I'm not a homer, but honestly, I'm not going to waste any more time or give you any more of the attention that you desperately crave.

Coulnd't the same be said of your statement or are you outside the realm of your own criticisms? Wasn't it you who called me a "fair weather fan" or a "What have you done for me lately" fan? What's good for the goose is good for the gander...right? I've been following the Steelers faithfully since 74 but not everyone who played for them is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Those who deserve criticism get it and Parker, in my mind, is certainly deserving of it.


The very fact that you or anyone else here criticizes derogatory statements about Parker while throwing the O-Line under the bus (over and over again as well) is proof enough that you support the guy in the role that he has and can write off bad performances by a RB under the "O-line is terrible" charade.

Sorry for the colors and the broken paragraphs. I'm not sure how to use the forum well enough to make things easier to read.

Providence Steel
10-04-2007, 01:20 PM
Here's a good OBJECTIVE article that has a lot good analysis of Willie and O-line.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/10/02/ramblings/any-given-sunday/5548/

"These complaints about the Pittsburgh running game do not mean that Parker is a bad back. The problem is that Parker struggles to gain consistent yardage on his own. Without a hole, Parker?s substantial big play ability is eliminated. Parker had no real chances on Sunday. He gained only 37 yards on 19 carries. Only six carries gained as many as three yards and more than half his yards came on a 20-yard scamper.

When a team stymies the running game, the key for an offense is to make them pay in the passing game. The Steelers had some success with this on Sunday, but the passing game struggled for consistency. Ben Roethlisberger has made a career out of highly efficient play in limited numbers of throws. He did make some plays down the field this week, but was put into too many difficult situations thanks to the anemic ground attack and poor pass protection."

I don't necessarily like everything they say, but I think it's pretty fair and accurate article. The run sets up the pass and the pass sets up the run. If the O-Line prevents either from happening, you lose.

This is a beautiful article! Thanks for sharing it.

Edman
10-04-2007, 05:29 PM
If a battering ram RB is really all what the Steelers need to reach to reach the Super Bowl, how come they couldn't do it with Bettis alone? He was a "battering ram". All we got were numerous choke jobs in the playoffs.

Only until Willie Parker showed up was the Bus able to get a ring. BTW, the last time the Steelers reached the Super Bowl prior to that, we had a little "speed" back named Eric Pegram. Coincidence? You decide.

revefsreleets
10-04-2007, 05:41 PM
You know what happens with 95% of "battering ram" RB's? They end up injured most of the time. That's what made Bettis so rare. Look at LJ and Steven Jackson this season.

This is all silly anyway. Willie weighs like 10 lbs less than LT, and no one ever questions his ability.