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View Full Version : What Whisenhunt did good and Tomlin didnt


tony hipchest
10-01-2007, 06:28 PM
whiz had a good day of coaching yesterday. but he had an even better week. the cardinals didnt light it up. they just managed to do well enough without one of their key contributors on offense.

where whiz made his hay was the week leading up to the game. props to him for not opening the dome or making the steelers wear their "home" black jerseys on the road. this move was perfect.

-it doesnt give the steelers or their fans any opportunity if they got beat by the heat. (ken has been in latrobe and hes seen film of the last 3 games. he knew the heat would be no factor.)

-why give them their home jerseys then? make the steelers feel at home? = bad move. ken sent a message to his players that it was their house, they werent gonna hand it over on a platter, and no external factors (such as playing with an open roof) were needed for them to win.

these are small things. the big thing whiz did that tomlin didnt was let the tap into and let the players play with the emotion that fueled all the storylines leading up into this match up. tomlin gladly handed it off as "their story", and the steelers methodically went on... business as usual.

games are won and lost on emotion alone. one team embraced it, the steelers pushed it to the side.

now this is more to commend whiz than to blame tomlin (sundays loss was a team effort minus the defense who definitely held their own). it was a tight game all the way and watching the cardinals play was kinda like watching the steelers.

sometimes a rah-rah speech and a little emotional edge can be all the difference...

*awaits for this to turn into a "do we miss cowher and porter" thread*

rog
10-01-2007, 06:37 PM
I completly respect your opinion but I don't think Tomlin is the rahrah type of guy he seems to be old school in the fact that this is your job you go out and do your job and you will win without getting into all the emotional stuff. Remindes me of guys like Dungey and Noll and that is what I like about him.

ShutDown24
10-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Tomlin won the job over Whisenhunt because he deserved it more. End of story. I would rather have a coach who is good most of the time (Tomlin) over one who is good sometimes (wiz). Whisenhunt had a good week. It will probably be the best week he is going to experiance in Arizona.

Edman
10-01-2007, 06:40 PM
2004 AFC Championship game...

Steelers embraced it, Patriots pushed it to the side. You know the rest...

Emotion, bouncing around, screaming, and shouting can only take you so far.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-01-2007, 06:50 PM
I agree Tony, that Whisenhunt had his team prepared and he coached an impressive game yesterday....His team wanted it more and its that simple....As for Tomlin it was the first time I wasn't that impressed with how he had the team ready to play....But hey its only one game and there is still 12 to play so I'm just getting ready for the Seahawks....

Preacher
10-01-2007, 06:51 PM
The real question is...

What would have happened if we had Cowher and Porter on the field


:wink02:

Atlanta Dan
10-01-2007, 06:51 PM
Everyone wants to win every week in the NFL but it is a question of how you channel the emotions that fuel that will to win.

Let's face it - this game meant the most to 2 people - Whiz and Ben. Peter King spoke with Whiz last night, who told King:

"I'm excited for myself, selfishly. This one truly means a lot. There's only so many really great wins in your life, and this is certainly one of them.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/30/mmqb/2.html

For Tomlin - winning yesterday would not have been one of the great wins of his life - OTOH it apparently would have been for Ben.

Whiz channeled his emotions while Ben was on the edge all week, with Tomlin publicly telling Ben to cool it, Ben telling Arians this game was for Ben the equivalent of Arians coaching against the Browns team that fired him, and Ben being so consumed about the "grudge match" that he was off by himself while Whiz was having a very public pregame meet & greet with apparently the entire Steelers team - Whiz got special bonus points there for playing with Ben's head regarding what the rest of the team thought about the alleged steel cage death match with one of their ex-coaches while at the same time being a class act with his former players.

Then we get to the game and, as I speculated last week might be the case, Whiz loads up against the run and tells the Steelers if you beat me it will be with your QB; for whatever reason, Arians either got caught up in his own macho decision that Whiz would not dictate the Steelers abandoning the run or, until the end, would not put the game in Ben's hands.

So Tomlin faces his first adversity of the year following a game where he could not control the emotions of his most important player. Despite all that, King still has the Steelers at #5 this week, with this observation:

You know why I don't kill the Steelers for losing in Arizona? Because there was plenty for the Cards to play for (with the Whisenhunt-Grimm revenge angle), and because Pittsburgh has still outscored its foes 111-47.

Next play

rog
10-01-2007, 06:55 PM
Everyone wants to win every week in the NFL but it is a question of how you channel the emotions that fuel that will to win.

Let's face it - this game meant the most to 2 people - Whiz and Ben. Peter King spoke with Whiz last night, who told King:

"I'm excited for myself, selfishly. This one truly means a lot. There's only so many really great wins in your life, and this is certainly one of them.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/30/mmqb/2.html

For Tomlin - winning yesterday would not have been one of the great wins of his life - OTOH it apparently would have been for Ben.

Whiz channeled his emotions while Ben was on the edge all week, with Tomlin publicly telling Ben to cool it, Ben telling Arians this game was for Ben the equivalent of Arians coaching against the Browns team that fired him, and Ben being so consumed about the "grudge match" that he was off by himself while Whiz was having a very public pregame meet & greet with apparently the entire Steelers team - Whiz got special bonus points there for playing with Ben's head regarding what the rest of the team thought about the alleged steel cage death match with one of their ex-coaches while at the same time being a class act with his former players.

Then we get to the game and, as I speculated last week might be the case, Whiz loads up against the run and tells the Steelers if you beat me it will be with your QB; for whatever reason, Arians either got caught up in his own macho decision that Whiz would not dictate the Steelers abandoning the run or, until the end, would not put the game in Ben's hands.

So Tomlin faces his first adversity of the year following a game where he could not control the emotions of his most important player. Despite all that, King still has the Steelers at #5 this week, with this observation:

You know why I don't kill the Steelers for losing in Arizona? Because there was plenty for the Cards to play for (with the Whisenhunt-Grimm revenge angle), and because Pittsburgh has still outscored its foes 111-47.

Next play



Great post!

revefsreleets
10-01-2007, 06:56 PM
I don't think Whiz's coaching made Nate Washington slow down in his route when he should have caught a bomb for a TD. Nor did it cause Ben to forget everything he knows and fire a ball without looking into double coverage in the endzone. Nor did it cause a breakdown in our otherwise almost perfect special teams play this year and give up a stupid 6. I don't think Tomlin's coaching was the deficiency that caused any of the above either. Maybe emotion was the deciding factor. I was derided for "making excuses" when I suggested something remotely like that in another forum by a certain disgruntled Pats fan.

Atlanta Dan
10-01-2007, 06:57 PM
The real question is...

What would have happened if we had Cowher and Porter on the field


:wink02:

Porter would have guaranteed a victory while making 3 tackles and no sacks?

rog
10-01-2007, 07:06 PM
Porter would have guaranteed a victory while making 3 tackles and no sacks?

That is a good one. Who guarantes a victory against a team like the Raiders anyway then doesn't back it up.

tony hipchest
10-01-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't think Whiz's coaching made Nate Washington slow down in his route when he should have caught a bomb for a TD. Nor did it cause Ben to forget everything he knows and fire a ball without looking into double coverage in the endzone. Nor did it cause a breakdown in our otherwise almost perfect special teams play this year and give up a stupid 6. I don't think Tomlin's coaching was the deficiency that caused any of the above either. Maybe emotion was the deciding factor. I was derided for "making excuses" when I suggested something remotely like that in another forum by a certain disgruntled Pats fan.totally agree. all the buzz has been whether kens "prior knowledge" led to the win. it didtnt. he had in a workable gameplan (which with a loss wouldve looked like they desperately missed boldin).

they were sufficient and effective and with a 14-7 lead late in the game they didnt turtle shell it, and leinart was throwing 40 yards to fitzgerald in the 4th quarter. whiz simply did something he wasnt allowed to do with cowher. it was no suprise to me.

sure the coaching had a. wilson in the right spot for an interception, but really, what coach wouldnt have? with ward out on 3rd and 3 (goal) its not difficult to think they might have something drawn up for miller.

again- good guess was a product of excellent film study and anticipating the opponents tendencies.

the pitch toss to willie absolutely sucked. so did najeh letting their punt returner slip through his arms. coaching only goes so far, and sometimes the emotional edge goes a hell of alot further.
Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan
Everyone wants to win every week in the NFL but it is a question of how you channel the emotions that fuel that will to win.

Let's face it - this game meant the most to 2 people - Whiz and Ben. Peter King spoke with Whiz last night, who told King:

"I'm excited for myself, selfishly. This one truly means a lot. There's only so many really great wins in your life, and this is certainly one of them.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...30/mmqb/2.html

For Tomlin - winning yesterday would not have been one of the great wins of his life - OTOH it apparently would have been for Ben.

Whiz channeled his emotions while Ben was on the edge all week, with Tomlin publicly telling Ben to cool it, Ben telling Arians this game was for Ben the equivalent of Arians coaching against the Browns team that fired him, and Ben being so consumed about the "grudge match" that he was off by himself while Whiz was having a very public pregame meet & greet with apparently the entire Steelers team - Whiz got special bonus points there for playing with Ben's head regarding what the rest of the team thought about the alleged steel cage death match with one of their ex-coaches while at the same time being a class act with his former players.

Then we get to the game and, as I speculated last week might be the case, Whiz loads up against the run and tells the Steelers if you beat me it will be with your QB; for whatever reason, Arians either got caught up in his own macho decision that Whiz would not dictate the Steelers abandoning the run or, until the end, would not put the game in Ben's hands.

great post. i definitely respect whiz and wish ben woulda shown him the same. i think his constant sniping told tomlin that ben was too overly emotional to let him loose.

in a perfect world tomlin woulda went with 3 wide, let ben prove the world wrong, give willie a week off with a few runs, swing passes, and screens (probably for 150 yds) and walked out of arizona with an easy win.

when he told ben to cool it mid-week, he pretty much tipped his hand that ben wasnt gonna be allowed to start a gunfight at the OK corrall.

rog
10-01-2007, 07:37 PM
I think Grimm had more influence in the game than Whiz did. It is a good advantage when you know the other teams O-line that well. Whiz however called a great game on offense even with the 2 QB situation which by the way I didn't think would work well atleast over along period of time. Congats to those guys for really coming to play.

Edman
10-01-2007, 07:54 PM
So what you're saying is Tony, is that this was a trap game?

Preacher
10-01-2007, 08:05 PM
TH..

I gotta disagree...

Whiz and comp. knew how to game plan against our weaknesses. I think that did have a big influence. In a game that close... it may have been the difference.

tony hipchest
10-01-2007, 08:17 PM
So what you're saying is Tony, is that this was a trap game?not necessariy but i guess it depends on how you look at it. it was too obvious to be a "trap" (kinda like when Indiana Jones runs out onto the 100 year old wood and rope bridge, you kinda know what is gonna happen).

the steelers almost seemed bored and a bit too business like. nothing wrong with an early sense of urgency and "excitement". but again, this is more of a credit to a former coach, than an indictment of a current one.

steelers didnt lose because of their coaching. they may have had lost an edge (or simply handed it off), but they didnt lose the game.