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View Full Version : the "big quarter" package


tony hipchest
10-15-2007, 11:51 PM
screw the nickle or the dime. the steelers are employing the big quarter. they tinkered with this last year, and word is, lebeau is now allowed to expand his horizons. some may seem suprised by the deviation from the typical 3-4, but those who have listened to b. keisels hints, there is more in store.

what we have shown in the big quarter has proven to be effective. at this point it is still very base and vanilla. with players such as keisel, polamalu, farrior allowed to roam, supported by hard hitting cover guys such as mcfadden, ike, townsend, and smith, the possibilities are endless. throw in a wild card such as timmons who is being trained as the middle linebacker in a 4-3 who is also said to have enough coverage skills to get snaps at cb or safety and realize we have several unseen

some seemed suprised of the steelers utilizing the cover-2 defense against seattle. some see it as natural progression. it came off as a hit although larry foote seemed to be a critic. he hardly saw the field on sunday. how could a steelers defensive scheme possibly work when you pull haggans, harisson, and foote (3/4 of the steelers starting defensive backers) off the field?

in the preseason a big question was to start smith over clark, and mcfadden over townsend. what happens when you get all 4 on the field with polamalu and taylor?
you have a formidable match for the likes of the colts and patriots 4-5 wide offensive sets.

i welcome any team to try and run against keisel, hoke, hampton, smith, and farrior out of a 4 wr set with the likes of our secondary as run support.

regardless of how we play it, its becoming evident that opposing coaches are gonna have to start preparing for everything (except changing up all their defensive signals of course).

Haiku_Dirtt
10-16-2007, 02:39 AM
We have nothing to lose by delving more into R&D on this inaugural journey.

The Patriots already have "received" the 2008 Lombardi Trophy pending investigation by the NFL, IRS, DOC and USDA...but not MoveOn. So why dwell.

If I were management in a growth situation you HAVE to test the limits at your 'disposal' because by doing so you expose internally weaknesses and strengths that pave the way for the scouting department.

And there is no cap on scouting so I hope the Rooney's aren't getting cheap with this department because the merchandise business is extraordinary for the "small market" Steelers (who else can sell NFL in Korea?).

Let's hope the fine line between being cheap and being prudent won't be shortsighted in this draft.

Galax Steeler
10-16-2007, 04:55 AM
I hope the best of our deffense is yet to come sounds like lebeau is ready to unleash the beast.

DACEB
10-16-2007, 07:36 AM
That's what I'm talking about Tony. This is the package that will take us to the Superbowl.

Throw Timmons into the mix (assuming he can learn his assignments) and this could be the formula to beat the Pats.

I assume Clark and Smith play safety leaving Polamalu free to roam.

The Duke
10-16-2007, 07:57 AM
best of all...the defense is kept pretty vanilla until we face the pats or get into the playoffs. lebeau?s a freakin genius.

I assume Clark and Smith play safety leaving Polamalu free to roam.
Sounds about right, smith and clark stay back to prevent big plays

I hadn?t really thought about timmons as the?wildcard?on this, with his speed there?s much he can do. I can?t wait to see him on this D

Lord Stiller
10-16-2007, 08:51 AM
That's what I'm talking about Tony. This is the package that will take us to the Superbowl.

Throw Timmons into the mix (assuming he can learn his assignments) and this could be the formula to beat the Pats.

I assume Clark and Smith play safety leaving Polamalu free to roam.

I agree that this package is awesome. They key to it will be creating pressure from the front 4

SteelFist
10-16-2007, 09:51 AM
throw in a wild card such as timmons who is being trained as the middle linebacker in a 4-3 who is also said to have enough coverage skills to get snaps at cb or safety and realize we have several unseen


Tony,
I've never read anywhere where Timmons was being trained as a 4-3 MLB. Are u sure? Its interesting if true.

Lord Stiller
10-16-2007, 10:10 AM
Tony,
I've never read anywhere where Timmons was being trained as a 4-3 MLB. Are u sure? Its interesting if true.

I read he was practicing as a MLB. I assume this means 3-4 MLB as we dont run a 4-3

DACEB
10-16-2007, 10:31 AM
I agree that this package is awesome. They key to it will be creating pressure from the front 4

Absolutely, Lord Stiller, but not necessarily the front four. More like a combination of four, meaning Hoke, Hampton and Smith will always rush (albeit from possibly different spots on the line) but the fourth could be Kiesel or Farrior or Troy. Throw in the possible blitz from the slot CB. Lets not forget Kiesel has the ability to drop into a zone.

I like the front four alone though. I like the strength that Hoke and Hampton bring to collapse the pocket from the inside. I like Smith and Kiesel on the ends, Smith won't chase any scrambling QB down but Kiesel can. When refering to Manning and Brady, collapsing the pocket is exactly what we want to do, neither will scramble both prefer to step up or slide in the pocket.

Lord Stiller
10-16-2007, 10:44 AM
Absolutely, Lord Stiller, but not necessarily the front four. More like a combination of four, meaning Hoke, Hampton and Smith will always rush (albeit from possibly different spots on the line) but the fourth could be Kiesel or Farrior or Troy. Throw in the possible blitz from the slot CB. Lets not forget Kiesel has the ability to drop into a zone.

I like the front four alone though. I like the strength that Hoke and Hampton bring to collapse the pocket from the inside. I like Smith and Kiesel on the ends, Smith won't chase any scrambling QB down but Kiesel can. When refering to Manning and Brady, collapsing the pocket is exactly what we want to do, neither will scramble both prefer to step up or slide in the pocket.

Excellent point :thumbsup:

SteelFist
10-16-2007, 11:26 AM
Excellent point :thumbsup:

I agree. Especially Brady....he always steps up in the pocket. Look for them to blitz Farrior/Foote up the middle. Though I think Farrior is more effective.

Counselor
10-16-2007, 12:56 PM
I read he was practicing as a MLB. I assume this means 3-4 MLB as we dont run a 4-3

When discussing a 3-4 they usually say ILB not MLB---since there are two ILB and no real "middle" one. We don't have a 4-3 as our base defense, but we've been known to use a 4-3 formation at certain times. I think all the "rules" about what the Steelers D does and does not do are being blown right out the window. We're unpredictible and I like it!

Lord Stiller
10-16-2007, 02:31 PM
It sounds like they might be getting Timmons ready to play MLB in a nickel or dime package in order to utilize his speed and athleticism in coverages

BurghZ0n3
10-16-2007, 02:41 PM
...as far as I know...we've been using 3-4 formation for decades! Any new scheme might have or have NOT a great impact on the D rosters,....again, Le Beau is the Man! :tt02:

tony hipchest
10-16-2007, 02:58 PM
Tony,
I've never read anywhere where Timmons was being trained as a 4-3 MLB. Are u sure? Its interesting if true.maybe i was thinking of the speculation that he will be converted to mlb if we ever switch to 4-3, and thinking of farrior as an mlb when he is the only lb on the field. heres the recent article on timmons:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_532528.html

Timmons is a tantalizing prospect because of his blend of size and speed.

He is 6-foot-1 and 234 pounds, yet he is fast enough that the Steelers have used him as a gunner on their punt coverage team.

As Parker can attest, Timmons is a hard hitter, but he seems just as comfortable dropping back into pass coverage as he does rushing the quarterback.

His ability to "play in space," as coach Mike Tomlin calls it, may be one reason why the Steelers have Timmons practicing at both inside and outside linebacker.

Timmons said he could play inside linebacker on one of the Steelers' subpackages, presumably a pass defense one in which Timmons would cover the tight end.

"Learning both positions, it puts a lot on you," said Timmons, who was the 15th overall pick of last April's draft. "I think I'm getting better than I was at training camp."


whats interesting is with just the replacement of clark or smith with timmons (if he can learn the safety position in this package), we could easilly disguise our quarter package as a conventional 4-3 (assuming timmons, polamalu, and farrior are the 3 backers).

i think this grouping is perfect to combat a no huddle/spread formation offense where they wanna catch you with your pants down and not allow you to do substitutions.

SteelFist
10-16-2007, 03:45 PM
i think this grouping is perfect to combat a no huddle/spread formation offense where they wanna catch you with your pants down and not allow you to do substitutions.

Most definitely.

Especially against a team like the Patriots who love to put two TE's on the field to force a defense to use a base package, and then line up in a 4WR set.

tony hipchest
10-18-2007, 11:37 AM
heres another example of what our "big quarter" package can do-

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=AED8C5257253F62E65F5BD05E5A5962E? id=09000d5d8035b160&template=without-video&confirm=true

2. The four-man rush against the shotgun quick-pass package

More and more teams are neutralizing defenses with a four-man front by utilizing a shotgun or quick-pass philosophy. If an offensive coordinator looks at a defense and sees a 4-3 scheme and concludes that none of the four defensive linemen can convert to linebackers in passing situations, then that triggers a shotgun or quick-pass package. The Titans, Bears, Packers, Redskins and Jaguars among other teams that have forceful four-man fronts. They get after an offense like the front fours of days gone bye. As one offensive coach said, "Whenever we can get a defense to waste a player in a rush look who will not effect the pass play, then by utilizing a quick game from the gun we win." A prominent defensive end in a 4-3 scheme said this week, "We have to start popping one of our linemen out of the rush and occupying an underneath zone instead of wasting a rusher because we just don't get to the quarterback enough the way we do it."

The truth is that rushing three players and dropping eight will get the quarterback to hold the ball. In the end that will give the three man rush a better chance at pressuring or sacking the quarterback. Look at Tennessee, for example. The Titans have an excellent four-man rush but they only have eight sacks and never got to Jeff Garcia of the Bucs last week because he got rid of the ball so quickly. I wonder if dropping an end would have gotten Garcia to hold the ball two seconds longer and allow a three-man rush to get to him? That's the question on the mind of a number of defensive coordinators facing the shotgun quick-pass attack.
b. keisel is our defensive end who can convert to a linebacker in passing situations. infact, in our big quarter package, hoke, hampton and smith line up in the 3 point stance. keisel stands on the line with no hands down and it doesnt tip off if he is rushing or dropping back into coverage.

hoke and hampton need double teamed, leaving 1 lineman matched up on aaron smith one on one. should open lanes for a blitzer (polamalu, townsend or both).

if we rely on just the 3 to get pressure we have farrior and keisel dropping into the underneath zone and still have taylor, smith, townsend, mcfadden, clark, and polamalu in coverage. no matter what 5 any team tries to spread us out in, we have 8 players solid in zone coverage, to combat it.

now most offenses (especially 1 like the colts) will see a team with 6 db's and go spread formation, hurry up so the defenses cant make substitutions, and run the ball against the 3 man front. that works good with most defenses but running against hoke, hampton, smith, farrior, polamalu, and keisel in the box is no walk in the park. especially when the group of db's behind them 1-6 are the hardest hitting, run stuffing secondary in the league.

tomlin and lebeau have correctly anticipated growing offensive trends with the development of this scheme. it shows they are ahead of the curve and not playing catch up.

and to think were only talking about the vanilla base package of 4-1-6 coverage. imagine when they start throwing wrinkles into that such as keisel, polamalu, and farrior moving around and roaming before the snap. we have only seen the baby step stages of what this defense can do.

MasterOfPuppets
10-18-2007, 12:34 PM
i'd even throw hines ward in as safety.....:thumbsup:

DACEB
10-18-2007, 12:58 PM
Great stuff Tony. You brought up a great point before about Timmons also. If he can get up to speed mentaly and technically he can replace Farrior or one of the DBs in the slot. His speed and athletisism, tackling ability and the fact that he hits like a truck would negate the running game even more (combined with Farrior, replacing a DB) and create even more confusion at the line of scrimmage.

DACEB
10-18-2007, 01:11 PM
Especially against a team like the Patriots who love to put two TE's on the field to force a defense to use a base package, and then line up in a 4WR set.

Absolutely, or even when the RB splits out wide. I would love to see Timmons or Farrior jamming Moss in the slot then blitz letting him go into an underneath coverage by Kiesel and over the top coverage by the safety, waiting to break his ribs.

Did I mention I think about this all the time.

tony hipchest
10-18-2007, 01:21 PM
Great stuff Tony. You brought up a great point before about Timmons also. If he can get up to speed mentaly and technically he can replace Farrior or one of the DBs in the slot. His speed and athletisism, tackling ability and the fact that he hits like a truck would negate the running game even more (combined with Farrior, replacing a DB) and create even more confusion at the line of scrimmage.this is where i see the vision tomlin had for the steelers in the future with the drafting of timmons and woodley 1 and 2. timmons has the speed to cover a marques coulston or keyshawn johnson type receiver. timmons could essentially flip flop between a safety or lb if stuck on the field during a "no huddle". woodley is a college DE and can easilly rush the edge as an end, or lend coverage and run support as a LB. i dont think we will see the full potential of these 2 until atleast 09. until then, i think they will be great in the sub packages they show they can learn.

DACEB
10-18-2007, 01:22 PM
and to think were only talking about the vanilla base package of 4-1-6 coverage. imagine when they start throwing wrinkles into that such as keisel, polamalu, and farrior moving around and roaming before the snap. we have only seen the baby step stages of what this defense can do.

I think your right Tony, for this package to really work you need to be able to switch between man coverage and zone coverage. The first few times you show it you go man, this makes the QB hold the ball for a second longer allowing the rush to get there. Then you mix in a zone and zone blitz utilizing Kiesel, Farrior (Timmons) and Polamalu.

Same personel, same formation, same look, totally different movement at the snap of the ball.