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SteelDogFan
10-17-2007, 08:32 PM
I don't know if statistically the past few year was this bad but the play in the NFL seams to be on the decline this year. There are two divisions that the leader is at five hundred. The Pats have almost won their division and its only week 7. There is only 8 QB's with a passer rating of 100 or more. Last year the season ended with fifteen. I don't know maybe its me but is justs seams like the level of play has declined.

jjpro11
10-17-2007, 10:47 PM
I don't know if statistically the past few year was this bad but the play in the NFL seams to be on the decline this year. There are two divisions that the leader is at five hundred. The Pats have almost won their division and its only week 7. There is only 8 QB's with a passer rating of 100 or more. Last year the season ended with fifteen. I don't know maybe its me but is justs seams like the level of play has declined.

i think i agree as well. when i look at the schedule, it just seems like there are so many mediocre teams playing each other.

Indy_Steelers
10-18-2007, 03:21 AM
I agree. I hope we can take advantage of this. A win is still a win.

Edman
10-18-2007, 06:06 AM
It's really too bad the AFC Least is so horrible. New England is going to run away into the playoffs in only a matter of months.

fansince'76
10-18-2007, 09:04 AM
The quality of play in the NFL, IMO at least, has been trending downward for years now - it's not just a recent thing. I think the biggest culprits have been unfettered free agency and the salary cap.Teams can no longer stockpile talent like they could in the past. Think about it - do you think a QB tandem of Joe Montana/Steve Young could exist in the 21st century NFL? Not very likely.

Atlanta Dan
10-18-2007, 09:11 AM
The quality of play in the NFL, IMO at least, has been trending downward for years now - it's not just a recent thing. I think the biggest culprits have been unfettered free agency and the salary cap.Teams can no longer stockpile talent like they could in the past. Think about it - do you think a QB tandem of Joe Montana/Steve Young could exist in the 21st century NFL? Not very likely.

But the instability gives every team hope - the drift to mediocrity is the downside - no cap means Redskins and Cowboys buy up the talent

In the 1970s it was a great era and great to be a Vikings, Cowboys, Steelers, Raiders, Oilers or Dolphins fan - for the rest of the league knowing you had no shot was probably not real entertaining

In some ways this season is like the 70s where a limited number of teams have broken from the pack

fansince'76
10-18-2007, 09:14 AM
But the instability gives every team hope - the drift to mediocrity is the downside - no cap means Redskins and Cowboys buy up the talent

In the 1970s it was a great era and great to be a Vikings, Cowboys, Steelers, Raiders, Oilers or Dolphins fan - for the rest of the league knowing you had no shot was probably not real entertaining

In some ways this season is like the 70s where a limited number of teams have broken from the pack

Great point and one that I neglected to mention - the "leveling of the playing field" across the board for all teams has been a benefit. Just about every team has a shot in any given year nowadays.

Mosca
10-18-2007, 09:33 AM
I think you are seeing the actual decline of some previously good teams (Cincy, Chi, NO), and not really believing in the resurgence of some doormats (Cleve, Ari, Det). But the wins and losses have to even out.

I like that every team starts the year with a real chance... a real chance to be great OR awful. case in point: Bungles, Bears, Saints, '06 Steelers. Remember that people were all over the Pats last year, wondering if they were starting the downslide; but, here we are.

The '99 Falcons went from 7-9 to 15-1; recently the Cowboys went from 5-11 to 10-6 to 6-10.

That's the beauty of it. There's no resting on talent; you have to bring it every game, every snap. I just heard it said within the last week that the difference in talent from top to bottom is less than 10%; I believe that. The difference is coaching, training, and desire. And that is why tradition plays such a strong part in the Steelers' success; it gives continuity in those areas. Even when our talent is off that 10% (Kordell, Tommy Gunn), we still win most seasons.

It's coming around; Jacksonville is quietly winning, Baltimore seems to have found their feet, the Giants are playing mistake-free football. Tampa's allowed only 87 points, Washington 69, Tennessee 72. There are some teams that are 3-2 and 2-3 now who know that 1/3 of the season isn't over yet. SD is already back to 3-3.

Like Coach Tomlin says, We have to keep getting better, because everyone else is going to get better. Just because a team stumbles early doesn't mean they suck; look at the '05 Steelers for proof.

Edman
10-18-2007, 11:00 AM
We're approaching that stretch of the season where teams that are still in it start jockeying for playoff position. Right now, the Steelers are in a great position. They just have to stay focused and keep winning. Besides the Broncs game, they have three critical divisional matchups after that. If they can get out that stretch no worse than 2-1, they'll be in even better shape.

Just gotta take care of business. It's business time. Tomlin is hungry and wants to win to set his own legacy in Pittsburgh. I'm sure he won't let the players rest on their laurels because of a hot 4-1 start.

SteelDogFan
10-19-2007, 09:32 AM
Good points all and I agree with both points on the free agency issue. I believe the list of QBs with a passer rating of 100 or more is the result of bad play. Last yer when the season ended there was 15 QBs over 100 QB rating as of week six there are only eight. Thats just bad i think.

Now I will say the defenses are catching up to the offenses and maybe its just that we need a new crop of talent to enter the league at that position. I dont know. I just know you used to be able to see a good QB match-up every once in a while. Now all you here is there a good manager of the game. even the Romo, Brady battle was one sided.

I hope the Steelers win but I would like to see a good football game from both teams not a lopsided one because Jay Cultler through 3 interceptions. I was exstatic when the Steelers won the Superbowl and I also DVDed the game. When I watched it the second time I came to the conclusion that was one of the ugliest football games (not superbowl but football games I have ever seen).

TroysBadDawg
10-19-2007, 11:01 AM
It is my belief that the NFL is into parity, they want all team to be equal, with money, talent, and everything else. It then falls on the coaches to produce the better team.

In my opinion it will never word. They are doing what the government wants the schools to do, by trying to make everything equal. All children have to pass the same standardized test. Even some may be gifted in music others in math or science they have to pass the same test. They want pencil boxes out of all children even though some are more like violins, others more like cedar chests, while yet others should be entertainment centers, they want pencil boxes out of all of them. A standardized test in school, free agency and salary caps in football plus profit sharing with team that has less of a fan bases than other teams. The NFL wants all teams being equal and on the same playing field.

Sorry but what ever happened to free enterprise in this country? Taking chances, with the risk of failure; Thomas Edison did it when working on the light bulb. If he didn’t how would be lighting the football field today, oil lamps?

Kids go out for football or baseball knowing they will not be cut, because that just doesn’t happen unless you are playing on a select team. Then the coaches become more of baby sitters than coaches to some, but let the parents scream if their kids come home and say the coach yelled at them. The parents are never at practice, never at games but are the first to scream if their poor little one is yelled at, no matter what the precious little did to get yelled at.

Sorry got off the subject, I’m ADD you know. Just ask my college professors, they will tell you.

ADD and being old, what a combination. You not only forget what you were writing about, but forget why you were writing about it.

rbryan
10-19-2007, 11:24 AM
The fact that every team has an equal chance due to the salary cap is a big part of what makes the NFL the most popular sport.

Otherwise the big market teams would spend thier way to the top. Yankee fans don't care if they spend 4 times as much as the next team. They think having more money is what makes thier team great.

Just like patsie fans don't care if thier team is a bunch of freakin cheaters.

Mosca
10-19-2007, 12:49 PM
It's always been that way, TBD; it was like that when I went to school in the '60s, and probably like that for generations before, too. It's up to those who are different and better in some ways to have the DRIVE and the WILL to overcome the regimentation. Just being talented is never enough.

The teams with the best grasp of the intangibles will always rise. There will always be a group of cautious teams in the middle, and there will be some clueless teams that have lost their way ('07 Bengals) on the bottom.

"Game manager" quarterbacks usually have those high passer ratings; could the lower numbers this year be a reaction to the recent criticism of the "game manager" style of play? I don't think so, but it's worht considering for a moment. The teams that have been coming up from the bottom, Detroit, Cleve, Ariz, etc, have been making their mark by putting up mucho points; Big risk offenses put up massive scores, but low passer ratings. I didn't go look at the stats boards to comfirm this (typing in the middle of a busy workday), but maybe someone else wants to.

rog
10-19-2007, 01:06 PM
When a team can sign a guy in his 40s that has been at home watching games to come and play for them is a sign the play isn't that great. It isn't even like Vinnie came to camp and earned a spot he was called because they couldn't find anyone else.

fansince'76
10-19-2007, 01:31 PM
ADD and being old, what a combination. You not only forget what you were writing about, but forget why you were writing about it.

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

OneForTheToe
10-19-2007, 04:52 PM
Great franchises will do well in most any circumstance as poorly run franchises will do poorly under most business models. The teams that were poorly run before the cap are still poorly run and visa versa.

Still, those that don't like the salary cap need to remember the words of Jerry Jones. I believe it was two contracts ago, when he basically admitted he didn't have the votes to override the Rooney's and other owners who wanted to keep the revenue sharing and salary cap in place as is (because they go together). Anyway, Jones said something like, "I know no one cares about my opinion, but someday they will."

And if you think about it, with the older guard dying off, sadly Jones might have a point. Remember the guy is building a billion dollar stadium. Just think of the extra revenue that stadium will bring in. I think the Rooney's are the best owners in sports. While I believe they would stay competitive for a while without the cap or revenue sharing, eventually even the Rooney's wouldn’t be able to compete without the two mechanisms that ensure some parity in finances.

tony hipchest
10-19-2007, 05:09 PM
Great franchises will do well in most any circumstance as poorly run franchises will do poorly under most business models. The teams that were poorly run before the cap are still poorly run and visa versa.

Still, those that don't like the salary cap need to remember the words of Jerry Jones. I believe it was two contracts ago, when he basically admitted he didn't have the votes to override the Rooney's and other owners who wanted to keep the revenue sharing and salary cap in place as is (because they go together). Anyway, Jones said something like, "I know one cares about my opinion, but someday they will."

And if you think about it, with the older guard dying off, sadly Jones might have a point. Remember the guy is building a billion dollar stadium. Just think of the extra revenue that stadium will bring in. I think the Rooney's are the best owners in sports. While I believe they would stay competitive for a while without the cap or revenue sharing, eventually even the Rooney's wouldn?t be able to compete without the two mechanisms that ensure some parity in finances.great points and well said. its like a family business going corporate.

the rooneys pretty much only have football money to draw from or fall back on. far cry from the blanks, jones, krafts, snyders of the league (or mark cubans or maloofs of NBA) who can pretty much buy a team as a hobby to fulfill a dream, much like normal people would purchase a dream car, boat, or house.

blanks, jones, krafts, snyders of the league buying an nfl team = how uber rich dudes deal with a mid-life crisis.

TroysBadDawg
10-20-2007, 07:41 AM
It's always been that way, TBD; it was like that when I went to school in the '60s, and probably like that for generations before, too. It's up to those who are different and better in some ways to have the DRIVE and the WILL to overcome the regimentation. Just being talented is never enough.


I remember when

Before free agency, salery cap, grass rules, you had real football. Ball was live until the ref blew it dead. (No I not going to add a Monica joke, she wasn't a ref. and she was after the grass rule. different grass too.) There was no such thing as throwing out of bounds, it was intentional grounding. QB's had to be tough (see Johny Unitus, Otto Grahm, Finks, Dawson, to name just some) When a person was tackled and the offensive player tried to get up first or while the defensive player was still above them, they were pushed back down. No such thing as unsportsman like conduct call, no Television time outs in a game, advertising was sold as time allowed, and it was squeezed in on time outs, injuries, halftime.
That was old football. That was real football. Oh that was when we walked to school in 10 feet of snow, barefoot, up hill bothways, oh I remember it well. Howdy Doody, Buffalo Bob, Winky Dink, 45 records, sock hops, what was I talking about????

rbryan
10-20-2007, 09:40 AM
Great franchises will do well in most any circumstance as poorly run franchises will do poorly under most business models. The teams that were poorly run before the cap are still poorly run and visa versa.

Still, those that don't like the salary cap need to remember the words of Jerry Jones. I believe it was two contracts ago, when he basically admitted he didn't have the votes to override the Rooney's and other owners who wanted to keep the revenue sharing and salary cap in place as is (because they go together). Anyway, Jones said something like, "I know no one cares about my opinion, but someday they will."

And if you think about it, with the older guard dying off, sadly Jones might have a point. Remember the guy is building a billion dollar stadium. Just think of the extra revenue that stadium will bring in. I think the Rooney's are the best owners in sports. While I believe they would stay competitive for a while without the cap or revenue sharing, eventually even the Rooney's wouldn’t be able to compete without the two mechanisms that ensure some parity in finances.

As our society as a whole spins more and more out of control and the players coming into the league reflect this "me first" attitude (see Chad Johson), the teams that embrace an Old School mentality will be the ones with the most success.

In the early 80's the Rooneys were criticized for being too conservative and unwilling to change thier basic philosophy to adapt to "The modern game". Yet today that philosophy is why the Steelers are one of the most successful franchises in the league.

SteelDogFan
10-20-2007, 01:16 PM
I agree and if you notice more teams are grabbing the Steelers philosophy. I know Holmgren and Fisher and even Billick. are great coaches. But i believe that fact that the Steelers stuck with Cower and until he won a Superbowl may extend their coaching careers with their teams. There are a few other teams that I would say their organizations do a great job two are the Packers and the Bears.

As for parity its not only due to free agency its also due to the fact that athletes are conditioned at and earlier age and with technology are even better conditioned each year. Athletes are no longer separated just because they are bigger or stronger. Now its because of mental sharpness, defensive and offensive awareness and special talent. There are tones of players in the NFL that are Devin Hester's size and have his speed. The only thing that separates them is his vision and talent. But that only comes along once in a while. Strength and speed are very close in todays NFL thats is also why parity is increasing.

If you randomly picked 20 starting offensive linemen they would all bench-press around 25-30 times, all run a 4.8 to 5.4 sec 40, all would be in the hight range of 6'3" to 6'7", and all would weigh 330 to 360. The only thing that separates them is God given talent. I do love the parity it creates more fans and causes the NFL as a whole to be more entertaining. But the basic play has definitely tapered off.

tony hipchest
10-21-2007, 12:38 PM
this weekends 1:00 PM slate of games has gotta be the worst in history. good thing is, theres a NASCAR race on instead.

The Duke
10-21-2007, 12:47 PM
this weekends 1:00 PM slate of games has gotta be the worst in history. good thing is, theres a NASCAR race on instead.

lol, I was thinking about watching the race too, the only game that seems kinda interesting is New england miami game, but even that one is getting boring

Indy_Steelers
10-21-2007, 03:19 PM
this weekends 1:00 PM slate of games has gotta be the worst in history. good thing is, theres a NASCAR race on instead.

I agree:yawn:. At least the ones on TV were. I turned it to some 80s B-movie and watched that.

Rinkleroot
10-21-2007, 07:21 PM
There are a lot of bad teams and only a few good ones, when I change channels to watch something other than the nfl it has to be bad.