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View Full Version : Is Polamalu overrated?


Rob64
10-22-2007, 06:50 AM
Is it me or is Troy overated? I think he should be used in a more conventinal way instead of being put all over the place. Teams have him figured out on the blitz ( when was his last sack?), His tackling is very average at best and he allways seems to trail the play, he doesn't fource turnovers or get alot of ints anymore. Don't get me wrong he is a talented guy but I think the coaches should just line him up at safety and let him play instead of jumping him all over the place. Our middle seems to be a sure thing for opposing QB's anymore. TE's have good days against us. Our D had one of its best games ever against Seattle when he was hurt and someone actually played strong safety. I think he is a great player but the way he is getting used is hurting his play.

ohiosteelerfan20
10-22-2007, 07:13 AM
:screwy: Rob, I know you want a do over with that post:rofl:

fansince'76
10-22-2007, 07:56 AM
Is it me or is Troy overated?

It's you, dude. One bad outing by the D as a whole, and now the best player on that D (and arguably the entire team as a whole) gets thrown under the bus. Gonna be a long week.

HometownGal
10-22-2007, 08:05 AM
Wow. Just wow. :jawdrop:

X-Terminator
10-22-2007, 08:17 AM
No.

Next question?

The Duke
10-22-2007, 08:21 AM
:smoker: leave it, seriously

83-Steelers-43
10-22-2007, 08:22 AM
I don't think so. The defense and offense as a whole played a horrible game. Personally, I'm not going to fall back on excuse making for 'certain untouchable' players and attempt to sugarcoat that game. I wish I could live in that little dream world. We stunk from the top (coaching staff) on down. But I do not think Troy Polamalu is overrated.

It's going to be a looooooooooong Monday, but I'm now looking to Cincinnati and watching this team attempt to ring off a few divisional wins in the next few weeks.

Lord Stiller
10-22-2007, 08:26 AM
Polamalu? NO

Steelers Defense as a whole? YES

SCSTILLER
10-22-2007, 08:43 AM
Polamalu is not overated! He makes opposing teams account for him, and confuses the QB. Yes, he will have bad games, as will every player in the NFL. But overrated, NO way!

TackleMeBen
10-22-2007, 08:54 AM
maybe we should have traded troy, right??? you have to be kidding me if you think he is overrated. he has to be one of the best at his position .

Edman
10-22-2007, 09:47 AM
Good lord. Didn't take long for the fanbase knee-jerk stupidity to seep through after a loss. Unbelievable. The Defense had a bad game after so many great ones. But hey, let's scrap this whole team and rebuild for the future while we're at it. It's obvious this team isn't very good.

BurghZ0n3
10-22-2007, 09:50 AM
...maybe last night was the VERY FIRST GAME you watch Polamalu in action??? He did the best he could out there,....it's just the whole D fell apart!!! :dang:

TackleMeBen
10-22-2007, 10:00 AM
Good lord. Didn't take long for the fanbase knee-jerk stupidity to seep through after a loss. Unbelievable. The Defense had a bad game after so many great ones. But hey, let's scrap this whole team and rebuild for the future while we're at it. It's obvious this team isn't very good.
thats a great idea.. we can scrap this team and maybe get a better one..lol.. does anyone know where we can get a good team??? anyone??? :flap:

i am sure they will be watching film and tomlin will have their butts practicing harder now.

Mosca
10-22-2007, 10:30 AM
Poloamalu "trails the play?" Polamalu is there on EVERY play. Even the ones where he begins 30 yards away. So, you might see him in the last seconds near the pile. But you didn't see the 30 yard sprint that would have made the tackle, if he'd have been needed to do that.

He plays the high risk/high reward style that has served this team well, and the reason it has served us well is that he guesses right a lot, and that he has the athleticism to recover on most of his wrong guesses.

But you know what? You're right. Let's trade him, and pick up one of those REALLY good guys. You know the ones I mean, the ones who are BETTER. Like... uh....

Or, let's trade him for a draft choice, and get one of those hot cover guys; maybe a Pacman Jones type, a REAL athlete who can cover and return kicks!

Or better yet; why not have the Rooneys dissolve the franchise and invest the money in hedge funds? That would certainly be better than all this messy sports stuff.

WisconsinSteelerMan
10-22-2007, 10:51 AM
The only questionable play was the one where he tackled Cutler by the helmet. But that was also a touchdown saving play. I just hate it how our so-called "fans" love to throw someone under the bus when we lose. My mother-in-law is a die hard Steeler fan (lives in the north suburbs) and even she was calling for the Steelers to pull Roethlisburger out of the game and play Batch. I was like...HONESTLY...Just give him a minute.

No, I don't think Polamalu is overrated...

Mike in La Crosse, WI

moedap
10-22-2007, 10:53 AM
3rd and long just pass it into the middle of the field for a first time. That seems to be a reoccurring thing and I still attribute that to the scheme. The zone blitz is designed to get QB's to either get sacked or get the ball out early. If the rush isnt there and the QB has all day he is going to find some holes in the zone.

memphissteelergirl
10-22-2007, 10:53 AM
No.

Next question?


Ditto....

bozz723
10-22-2007, 11:10 AM
Is Troy overrated?

Well, this season absolutely. However he has been injured. I was thinking this same thing yesterday, but then I thought this is how fair weather fans think when a star player has one bad game.


Troy is one of the best in the league, and I am not worried about him, as of right now. However if he plays 5 more weeks like how he played vs. Denver we will all have cause to worry.

The only time you knew he was on the field yesterday was because of that personal foul, and him chasing down receivers 20 yards down field.

So this season, compared to past expectations would make him overrated.

stillers4me
10-22-2007, 11:40 AM
Thank you for giving me my first laugh in 2 weeks.

My dad got very sick and passed away last Tuesday night. I've spent the last week with funeral arrangements, grieving siblings, and a psycho bitch stepmother. It was about as sucky as sucky gets. We drove home from Pa. yesterday and put on our jerseys and headed to our Steeler bar to lift our spirits and well.......obviously that didn't work as well as we planned.

Troy overrated?????? Thank you from the bottom of my heart for a very good laugh!

Hines0wnz
10-22-2007, 11:54 AM
Thank you for giving me my first laugh in 2 weeks.

My dad got very sick and passed away last Tuesday night. I've spent the last week with funeral arrangements, grieving siblings, and a psycho bitch stepmother. It was about as sucky as sucky gets. We drove home from Pa. yesterday and put on our jerseys and headed to our Steeler bar to lift our spirits and well.......obviously that didn't work as well as we planned.

Troy overrated?????? Thank you from the bottom of my heart for a very good laugh!

Sorry for your loss and glad you could find a chuckle from the ridiculous fair weather fans. :cheers:

BlastFurnace
10-22-2007, 11:59 AM
Why can't you guys look at his question and comments rationally without acting like it's a stupid question. The poster is not saying that Troy sucks, just asking if he is overrated and not in the same class as the better safeties in the league...such as Ed Reed or Adrian Wilson.

The Steelers best defensive day of the year came on the day that Troy didn't play. Did Ryan Clark jump all over the field and freelance it everywhere against Seattle...no. Clark played the conventional style of Troy's position and was knocking the snot out of the opposing WR's.

I don't think that Troy is overrated, but I do think he is caught out of position too much because of his freelancing ways. As with anything else in the NFL, teams scout other teams and find ways to exploit even the best defensive schemes or players. I think other teams have learned how to make Troy less of an impact. He is not making as many big plays the last 22 games as he did in 2005.

Part of what made Troy special was the element of surprise with his game. I'm not sure he is surprising many teams any longer.

I would like to see a more disciplined approach with him at times.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-22-2007, 12:02 PM
Troy is as disruptive as ANY defensive player in the game. Even when not utilized correctly he still is a factor on EVERY play and coaches have to remind their QB's to TRY and not pay too much attention to him because they will never figure out what he is going to do.

Overrated?....please.

BlastFurnace..great comment about him playing a more disciplined role!! At times I think we waste all that talent when he is used incorrectly

X-Terminator
10-22-2007, 12:05 PM
Why can't you guys look at his question and comments rationally without acting like it's a stupid question.

Maybe because it's an irrationally stupid question, based on one perceived bad game? Which, BTW, is typical of your average, fair-weathered, "what have you done for me lately" Steelers fan. "Oh, that Polamalu didn't make any big plays today...let's bench him because he STINKS!" :yawn:

It never ceases to amaze me how fickle Steelers fans are.

SteelerFanInCA
10-22-2007, 12:07 PM
Troy is soild and is always around the ball. That guy is far from being overrated. The D just had a bad game.

We just ran into a desperate football team. That can work against you sometimes. Denver made the plays and we didn't. Bring on the bungles.

Lord Stiller
10-22-2007, 12:09 PM
Why can't you guys look at his question and comments rationally without acting like it's a stupid question. The poster is not saying that Troy sucks, just asking if he is overrated and not in the same class as the better safeties in the league...such as Ed Reed or Adrian Wilson.

The Steelers best defensive day of the year came on the day that Troy didn't play. Did Ryan Clark jump all over the field and freelance it everywhere against Seattle...no. Clark played the conventional style of Troy's position and was knocking the snot out of the opposing WR's.

I don't think that Troy is overrated, but I do think he is caught out of position too much because of his freelancing ways. As with anything else in the NFL, teams scout other teams and find ways to exploit even the best defensive schemes or players. I think other teams have learned how to make Troy less of an impact. He is not making as many big plays the last 22 games as he did in 2005.

Part of what made Troy special was the element of surprise with his game. I'm not sure he is surprising many teams any longer.

I would like to see a more disciplined approach with him at times.

I agree with what you are saying. But I dont understand if it is Troy's fault of Lebeau's???? It is pointless for Troy to take on offensive linemen, he cant beat them. I see him running around near the line and I keep hoping he drops back and doesnt blitz

Troy is a beast though. IMO he has the fastest closing speed by far in the NFL. I didnt think he played bad last night

stillers4me
10-22-2007, 12:19 PM
Troy is soild and is always around the ball. That guy is far from being overrated. The D just had a bad game.

We just ran into a desperate football team. That can work against you sometimes. Denver made the plays and we didn't. Bring on the bungles.

Egads......another desperate footbal team. :dang:

tony hipchest
10-22-2007, 12:25 PM
polamalu seems to have that gamblers mentality, much like a defensive version of brett favre. sometimes his trickery and gambles leave him a split second away from making the play (live by the sword, die by the sword). i think the thought on him varies around the league. i posted this a few weeks back:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ike&id=3056627


Quote:
"Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu have a far greater impact on the game than any corner, and it's not even close," one quarterback on our panel said.

Baltimore's Reed and Pittsburgh's Polamalu were the only safeties who came close to earning spots on the short list of scheme-changing players. Reed came closer than Polamalu.

Quarterbacks marvel at Reed's range and overall playmaking ability. An interception Reed made against San Francisco on Sunday left the 49ers in awe. Reed somehow picked off a short pass to the flanker after lining up in the middle of the field, as if he'd been in two places at once.

Polamalu moves around constantly and blitzes from various angles. He moves around so much that some offensive coordinators tell their quarterbacks not to worry about him too much. They would rather ignore Polamalu than let him bait them into guesswork.

In that sense, safeties can be wild cards to the extent that teams resist making significant changes to their plans for fear of outsmarting themselves.

"Polamalu is an issue in protection while Reed is a factor for the quarterback and where his throws are going," the defensive coordinator said. "He's supposed to be in the post, but he might be jumping a route on the other side of the field."

Two scouts believe even the greatest safeties are generally too far from the football on most plays to force significant changes to game plans. Quarterbacks disagreed, saying Reed could change what they do.

"Ed Reed is special," another GM said. "The guy at Pittsburgh [Polamalu] is really good, not overrated, but there are some holes in his game."

thebus36idf
10-22-2007, 01:54 PM
I have to agree with all the people disagreeing with you. Hope we leave that performance right ther in Denver where we brought it. Bye weeks kill us

Haiku_Dirtt
10-22-2007, 03:47 PM
:screwy: Rob, I know you want a do over with that post:rofl:

I don't see how he is overrated either. :toofunny:

I did see how freaking fast he can be when he tracked down Brandon Marshall from behind.

Rob64
10-22-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm not a fair weather fan, I'm a lifelong fan from the 70's. Didn't say to trade him. Its a legit question. My opinion is he is used wrong and out of position alot. This isn't just my opinion from last nights game. I just don't see him making good sound tackles or big plays on a regular basis. I think he'd be a better player and our D would be better if they played him more convetionally. Personally I'd take Reed over Troy as the better safety because he is in position more often then not. Thanks for backing me Blastfurnace.

Rob64
10-22-2007, 04:10 PM
By the way when I say over rated I mean everytime they play all you hear is Troy is the best DB in the league or the best defensive players in the league. I think he is good but not that good. Some of you guys should watch some video of Donnie Shell sometime.

BlastFurnace
10-22-2007, 04:45 PM
I'm not a fair weather fan, I'm a lifelong fan from the 70's. Didn't say to trade him. Its a legit question. My opinion is he is used wrong and out of position alot. This isn't just my opinion from last nights game. I just don't see him making good sound tackles or big plays on a regular basis. I think he'd be a better player and our D would be better if they played him more convetionally. Personally I'd take Reed over Troy as the better safety because he is in position more often then not. Thanks for backing me Blastfurnace.

No problem. I thought you asked a legitmate question. Personally, I would take Ed Reed over Troy as well. I like Troy a lot, but Ed Reed is...in my opinion...the best in the game.

BlastFurnace
10-22-2007, 04:49 PM
By the way when I say over rated I mean everytime they play all you hear is Troy is the best DB in the league or the best defensive players in the league. I think he is good but not that good. Some of you guys should watch some video of Donnie Shell sometime.

I'm a fan from the 70's as well. Donnie Shell was a heck of a safety. I still remember his hit on Earl Campbell that broke Earl's ribs. Shell was a good cover guy as well. It's hard to believe we got him as an undrafted FA.

IMO, the best safeties the Steelers have ever had were Donnie Shell and Carnell Lake. Troy is close, but I like the other two better.

Honorable mention goes to Mike Wagner and Glen Edwards.

steelpride12
10-22-2007, 06:08 PM
HAHA our defense has one bad game and Troy is overrated is that a serious question! haha

Rob64
10-22-2007, 07:25 PM
I'm a fan from the 70's as well. Donnie Shell was a heck of a safety. I still remember his hit on Earl Campbell that broke Earl's ribs. Shell was a good cover guy as well. It's hard to believe we got him as an undrafted FA.

IMO, the best safeties the Steelers have ever had were Donnie Shell and Carnell Lake. Troy is close, but I like the other two better.

Honorable mention goes to Mike Wagner and Glen Edwards.

I can't argue with those choices at all, Those guys were all good or great safties. Shell could light you up and was good for 6 ints a year. Wagner is an old favorite too. I was checking out some other boards today and it seems there are alot of people noticing alot of what my post talks about and not just last nights game. Sorry to offend alot of Troy fans here. I just think if he were used normally he'd be a better player and still use him as an occasional blitzer.

BlastFurnace
10-22-2007, 09:27 PM
I can't argue with those choices at all, Those guys were all good or great safties. Shell could light you up and was good for 6 ints a year. Wagner is an old favorite too. I was checking out some other boards today and it seems there are alot of people noticing alot of what my post talks about and not just last nights game. Sorry to offend alot of Troy fans here. I just think if he were used normally he'd be a better player and still use him as an occasional blitzer.

Yep. I am a member of 2 other boards and there are threads dedicated to Troy on those boards as well. I have a feeling that he is literally running himself out of the play in some instances.

Atlanta Dan
10-22-2007, 09:34 PM
Troy is going through as a player what LeBeau is going through as a coach (and FWIW it looks like Troy & LeBeau were having a spirited exchange on the sidelines at one point last night).

Tomlin wants to go to incorporate more Cover 2, which changes what LeBeau can call and definitely changes the role of the safety in the defense. Troy took a year to adapt his rookie year and he is going through the first big evolution in his role since then.

Troy will be fine - there are bigger concerns on D for now (including CBs, pass rush from the OLBs, and how long Aaron Smith may be out)

delhess
10-22-2007, 11:04 PM
i think you had good intentions rob, but after a tough loss, you can expect to get some hate mail for a question like that here.

it could be a legitimate question, (i think the answer is no), but the timing is really bad.

i have to admit that the "second string defense" (against seattle) looked a lot more efficient then our "class of the nfl" defense did yesterday. there could be a lot of reasons for that.

maybe you were thinking this about troy for the last 4 years, but when you ask that question now, it looks like you are basing it on the last 2 games.

cheers! discussion is always good!

TommyG
10-22-2007, 11:11 PM
Troy is going through as a player what LeBeau is going through as a coach (and FWIW it looks like Troy & LeBeau were having a spirited exchange on the sidelines at one point last night).

Tomlin wants to go to incorporate more Cover 2, which changes what LeBeau can call and definitely changes the role of the safety in the defense. Troy took a year to adapt his rookie year and he is going through the first big evolution in his role since then.

Troy will be fine - there are bigger concerns on D for now (including CBs, pass rush from the OLBs, and how long Aaron Smith may be out)

I agree. Troy is not the problem.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
10-23-2007, 12:57 AM
The quarterback looks at troy just before the ball is snapped........Maybe because hes overated..........OR maybe because Troy causes the offense to account for him because if you watch the game.......Troy is in on almost every play.......Doesnt matter what side of the field hes on..............But you say that is being overated.......Let me consider this for a minute.........Okay.........If we won last night.........YOU WOULD NOT BE ASKING THIS QUESTION.....

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
10-23-2007, 01:01 AM
It makes me sick just to look at the title of this post on the forum

augustashark
10-23-2007, 02:27 AM
Then don't look at it

Preacher
10-23-2007, 03:39 AM
Yep. I am a member of 2 other boards and there are threads dedicated to Troy on those boards as well. I have a feeling that he is literally running himself out of the play in some instances.

I think the design is for him to cover an area.... that is seen, and they run the opposite way.

So the key then, is to have Troy on a weak side, so they will run plays to a strong side.

Galax Steeler
10-23-2007, 04:58 AM
You got to think this is his first game back from the injury in the seattle game that has been 2 -3 weeks ago he is just getting back in the swing of things lets see what happens this week he will be fine.

Atlanta Dan
10-23-2007, 03:45 PM
Ed.B. of the P-G acknowledges Troy is not playing at an All-Pro level at the moment

Q: Do you think Troy is playing at a pro bowl level this year? He's my second favorite steeler but he seems a step behind the plays this year.

Ed Bouchette: Not yet, he's not.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07296/827755-66.stm

Let's wait and see how it goes Sunday - this Bengals game is a crucial test for individuals who have been shaky and for Tomlin to rally the troops after a disappointing loss

tony hipchest
10-23-2007, 04:07 PM
Let's wait and see how it goes Sunday - this Bengals game is a crucial test for individuals who have been shaky and for Tomlin to rally the troops after a disappointing loss

cgolden: The Bengals rank 27th against the run and 28th against the pass so what kind of gameplan will Tomlin and Arians come up with to surprise them?

Ed Bouchette: QB sneaks.


:toofunny:

Steelman16
10-23-2007, 05:12 PM
:toofunny:

QB sneaks! LOL I'd love to see Big Ben running all over creation against the Bungles! Since the O-Line doesn't do its job anyway, everyone just make him scramble. Ward will do the rest of the blocking.

That said, I don't think Polamalu is overrated, but he blew some big plays along with Hampton on Sunday. I chalk it up to Bye Week + Injuries = Lack of big-time play.

We'll get our act back together against the Bungles. (Bye weeks always kill us it seems.)

shutdown
10-23-2007, 05:22 PM
What is more amusing is all the baseless and non contributing comments coming from the majority of you guys. I seriously doubt most of you even read a few of the real post and hit that reply button to provide your ignorant babble.

Why can't you guys look at his question and comments rationally without acting like it's a stupid question. The poster is not saying that Troy sucks, just asking if he is overrated and not in the same class as the better safeties in the league...such as Ed Reed or Adrian Wilson.

The Steelers best defensive day of the year came on the day that Troy didn't play. Did Ryan Clark jump all over the field and freelance it everywhere against Seattle...no. Clark played the conventional style of Troy's position and was knocking the snot out of the opposing WR's.

I don't think that Troy is overrated, but I do think he is caught out of position too much because of his freelancing ways. As with anything else in the NFL, teams scout other teams and find ways to exploit even the best defensive schemes or players. I think other teams have learned how to make Troy less of an impact. He is not making as many big plays the last 22 games as he did in 2005.

Part of what made Troy special was the element of surprise with his game. I'm not sure he is surprising many teams any longer.

I would like to see a more disciplined approach with him at times.

Blast pretty much summed up what I was going to say. Maybe some of you spammers can take the time to read it and take a stab at providing some decent feedback for once.

:banging:

Rob64
10-23-2007, 06:06 PM
What is more amusing is all the baseless and non contributing comments coming from the majority of you guys. I seriously doubt most of you even read a few of the real post and hit that reply button to provide your ignorant babble.



Blast pretty much summed up what I was going to say. Maybe some of you spammers can take the time to read it and take a stab at providing some decent feedback for once.

:banging:

I was very surprised at the emotions I touched off with my post. I wasn't saying Troy is a bad player and had some solid arguements. I even made a poster sick just from the title LOL and others said I was just a "fair weather fan". I don't post on this forum much so I really didn't know what to expect. I think your right that some here didn't even read my post. I even watched the Tomlin press conference on FSN today and Paul Alexander questioned Troys play going back to last season and he was also questioning how the Steelers were using him so at least others are seeing what I was seeing. My guess is that Troys popluarity is so high that some get angry if you question his play.

fansince'76
10-23-2007, 06:28 PM
I was very surprised at the emotions I touched off with my post. I wasn't saying Troy is a bad player and had some solid arguements. I even made a poster sick just from the title LOL and others said I was just a "fair weather fan".

With all due respect, the title could have probably been worded a bit more clearly - something to the effect of "Is Polamalu Used Correctly?," especially on the heels of a bitter loss.

Atlanta Dan
10-23-2007, 06:35 PM
With all due respect, the title could have probably been worded a bit more clearly - something to the effect of "Is Polamalu Used Correctly?," especially on the heels of a bitter loss.

Suggested upbeat alternative headlines for this thread:

"Is Troy Playing As Fantastically As Ever?"

"Troy - Just A Great Safety Or Still The Greatest Safety?"

"Is Troy's Sub-Par Play The Fault Of LeBeau Or Tomlin?"

Given that Troy was paid All-Pro $$$ this summer expecting an All-Pro level performance is not unreasonable.

fansince'76
10-23-2007, 07:35 PM
Given that Troy was paid All-Pro $$$ this summer expecting an All-Pro level performance is not unreasonable.

Never said it was. However, posting a thread with a title such as "Is (insert fan favorite name here) Overrated?" immediately following a loss is bound to generate negative responses.

alittlejazzbird
10-23-2007, 07:40 PM
The way he is always there at the end of the play to rescue the team is evidence that he is still the great player he always has been, just that the scheme or whatever is putting him out of position way too often.

To the extent it's possible with limited TV angles, I try to watch Troy whenever the defense is on the field, mostly because I'm trying to see if I can figure out what he's going to do (no surprise, I can't). What I have noticed last season and this season, is that sometimes he over-pursues in his ferocious effort to get to whomever has the ball, and his miscalculation will take him out of the play and put him out of position. Troy tends to be a tough critic of himself, and he has mentioned this in the past as something he is always working on.

Perhaps "overrated" wasn't the best choice of words, as several posters have noted. In my opinion, Troy's as talented, intelligent and instinctive a football player as I've ever seen, and I've been a Steelers/football fan for 30 years. I'd put him in the top three in the NFL at his position. But I do agree with those who say that he's either not always properly used, or sometimes out of position. If Dick LeBeau is giving him free rein to go wherever he wants, maybe it's time for a more controlled, assigned pursuit.

Rob64
10-23-2007, 07:55 PM
I don't think the word overrated was to harsh. Rod Woodson called him the best DB in the league before the season on NFL network. Others said he was the best safety in the game and some even said he was one of the best defensive players period. He is the highest paid safety now. Expectations are high. He is a very good player but none of the above IMO hence me using over rated in my title. I might add he could be the best if they use him right and he becomes a better tackler.

lilyoder6
10-23-2007, 08:11 PM
i think that when we had chris hope who was underrated. troy was at his prime.. i just think troy play different with clark than he did with hope.. maybe he just hasn't gotten to trust clark as much as he did with hope.. i mean clark is good and all but i don't think he has yet to hit his potentioal with the steelers and until that happens i think troy will keep trying to be evry where all the time... at least with hope near the end(sb run) hope could take at least half the field for covering... it's just my opion...

SteelDogFan
10-23-2007, 08:39 PM
Do you think he was overrated the last two years. Thats like saying L. T. is over rated just because San Diego had a bad start to the season.

They are not using Troy in the same way as they did last year. I can't believe you wrote this post it just doesn't make any sense. Is that what you really think or do you want to rephrase it

Maybe post:

Is Troy having a bad year or Do you think Troy had a bad game. But overrated sounds like a cleveland, baltimore or cinci fan.

Atlanta Dan
10-23-2007, 09:22 PM
Do you think he was overrated the last two years. Thats like saying L. T. is over rated just because San Diego had a bad start to the season.

They are not using Troy in the same way as they did last year. I can't believe you wrote this post it just doesn't make any sense. Is that what you really think or do you want to rephrase it

Maybe post:

Is Troy having a bad year or Do you think Troy had a bad game. But overrated sounds like a cleveland, baltimore or cinci fan.

Ed.B. of the P-G said today Troy is not having a Pro Bowl quality year - unlike the Mark Maddens of the world he does not say stuff just to start a fight and is not ant-Steelers as best I can tell.

Based on what Troy is being paid, he presumably is rated as (at least) a Pro Bowl quality player by the Steelers. His performance rating has not matched his salary (and media) rating since much of the period since the SB. I do not know if that is due to injuries(he had a shoulder, knee and brain trauma injury in 2006) or other teams figuring out how to react to how Troy currently is deployed, but the level of play during the much of 2004, 2005 and (especially) the 2005 playoffs that appeared to indicate Troy was redefining the safety position has only appeared since then in flashes.

Unlike Ray Lewis, Troy is a great guy and i am glad the Steelers locked him up for a long term contract.. But Lewis has been called a great LB by the media when it has been years since that was the fact. Given Troy's performance since 2005, it is not a cheap shot to question the continued adulation of Troy by that same media, which is known for praising players for past rather than current performance (just look at the annual Pro Bowl rosters for how reputation rules).

I expect Troy to come back strong, but the shot I saw Sunday night of LeBeau and Troy engaged in an exchange on the sidelines indicates to me that with Troy having his own extraordinarily high standards he knows that those standards are not being met at the moment.

If Troy's actual play is not meeting his perceived talent (established in the 2005 playoff run) and current salary then using the word overrated (as opposed to such terms as lazy, undedicated after landing his contract, or undisciplined) is not totally without justification.

I look forward to that situation changing, hopefully starting on Sunday.

Rob64
10-23-2007, 10:10 PM
They are not using Troy in the same way as they did last year. I can't believe you wrote this post it just doesn't make any sense. Is that what you really think or do you want to rephrase it

Maybe post:

Is Troy having a bad year or Do you think Troy had a bad game. But overrated sounds like a cleveland, baltimore or cinci fan.

No I don't want to re phrase it. How dare you call me a Balt.,Cinci, Clev fan. Now take a deep breath and chill.

Now with all that I sincerely hope he gets his game together and plays up to his all pro potential. I think they will get this figured out and he will

shutdown
10-23-2007, 11:16 PM
Glad to see this conversation is maturing. I like Dan's comment and I believe there are a lot of Mark Maddens in this topic.

To me it comes down to what Dick is doing with him and his potential. Everyone is seeing the word OVERRATED and OVERREACTING. Blast has had the best point in this game and barely anyone addressed it.

Ryan Clark SHINED in place of Polamalu.

Why, because he sat back and made plays. No discredit to Ryan Clark because he is Captain Consistent, but could you imagine the things that could happen if Polamalu was asked to do the same.

Most of yins are still living in the hype of prior years that Polamalu is some Houdini on the field and needs to be accounted for. This is the NFL and teams adjust. Guess what, they have adjusted! You name one game this season where Polamalu has been a game changer?

For someone who is getting paid a game changers type salary, Polamalu has yet to prove he can be that game changer in Dicks scheme.

Does that make Polamlu as a player overrated, no. Does that make his performances this year his fault, no. But there does need to be a change. His current role on this current team, IS OVERRATED. He still gets hype and he is not producing.

jsteelers51191
10-24-2007, 03:55 PM
last year when he was hurt, our defense allowed 3 points to Tampa Bay, 3 points to Clevelnad on Thursday night, and 3 points to Carolina. When he came back, baltimore dropped 27+ plus on us. I am not saying bench him at all, just greatly reduce the wandering he does and allow him to play traditional SS because Offensive coordinators have figured him out and he isn't nearly as effective near the LOS as he used to be. The coaches should also have him blitz to the outside more rather than the inside where he can utilize his speed better rather than getting stuffed by a 350 pound guard!

The Duke
10-24-2007, 04:02 PM
:rolleyes:

oh come on, this is the same as that "is polamalu overated" topic.

giving up only 13 points in 3 games was a team effort, not because of a single player or the, same as giving up 27 points to the ravens was a team effort, not the fault of a single player. the defense crumbled, same thing happened against denver on sunday, it happens, but it is not a single player's fault.

was troy responsible for all 3rd down conversions? no, he wasn't. football is ateam sport, remember that

MasterOfPuppets
10-24-2007, 04:41 PM
last year when he was hurt, our defense allowed 3 points to Tampa Bay, 3 points to Clevelnad on Thursday night, and 3 points to Carolina. When he came back, baltimore dropped 27+ plus on us. I am not saying bench him at all, just greatly reduce the wandering he does and allow him to play traditional SS because Offensive coordinators have figured him out and he isn't nearly as effective near the LOS as he used to be. The coaches should also have him blitz to the outside more rather than the inside where he can utilize his speed better rather than getting stuffed by a 350 pound guard!

clevland 4 - 12
tampa 4 - 12

baltimore 13 - 3

there's a reason clev and tampa only one 4 games....BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SCORE ON ANYONE !!!!!!!!!!!! :buttkick:

stillers4me
10-24-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't think there's a team in this league that wouldn't match or beat Troy's contract to have him.

I'll like our chances for the long haul better with him than without him.

Atlanta Dan
10-24-2007, 05:32 PM
I don't think there's a team in this league that wouldn't match or beat Troy's contract to have him.

I'll like our chances for the long haul better with him than without him.

I agree - Troy is still an amazing talent - I recall a sequence at the end of the game in Cleveland last year where he had a series involving tackles, a blocked pass, and defensing a pass that were extraordinary. But for whatever reason, those bursts of brilliance are less frequent - my bet is LeBeau and Tomlin will work through how to refocus Troy's talents and, just as was the case after Troy learned the D in 2003, Troy will return to greatness.

tony hipchest
10-24-2007, 09:48 PM
after further review, it seems like the bulk of denvers significant gains came when they were running away from troy. if he lined up left, they went right, and they went left when he lined up right. just because troy is a safety, doesnt mean every ball that is complete is by troys man.

what other player is expected to cover both halves of the field 100% of the time?

as for teams who choose to ignore polamalu (probably the browns), denver obviously wasnt one of them. if he wasnt lined up in the middle they almost always went opposite his direction.

alot of times troy was said to be caught out of position, the steelers (as a whole) were playing run. i would say the steelers gameplan maybe overplayed the run, and anticipated denver to try and establish henry much more than they did.

i doubt many (if any at all) FO people are questionning the contract given to troy after game 6.

Smashmouth225
10-24-2007, 10:04 PM
Nah, he is not over-rated. I think with all the moving before the snap it actually hurts us because he is out of position to make a play. QB gets the ball out of his hands quick and attacks the spot Polamula is coming from. I really don't like when he is blitzing up the middle having to go thru big bodies to get to the QB which rarely happens. If you are going to blitz him he has to come around the corner where he has the speed to get to the QB w/out being touched. Polumula has speed, range, tackling abilty and hands just let him sit back and read and react sometimes instead of trying to trick people to make a play.

shutdown
10-24-2007, 11:43 PM
Nah, he is not over-rated. I think with all the moving before the snap it actually hurts us because he is out of position to make a play. QB gets the ball out of his hands quick and attacks the spot Polamula is coming from. I really don't like when he is blitzing up the middle having to go thru big bodies to get to the QB which rarely happens. If you are going to blitz him he has to come around the corner where he has the speed to get to the QB w/out being touched. Polumula has speed, range, tackling abilty and hands just let him sit back and read and react sometimes instead of trying to trick people to make a play.

Exactly. I mean the last 3 seasons, yes it was a surprise but now teams are picking up and it seems more than less of the time its in effective. I record highlights of every game for my Steelers myspace group and can easily point out numerous of big plays given up by the Steelers and a majority of them you see Troy attempting to rush the QB but getting picked everytime.

As I said, we are paying this guy a salary to be a game changing type player and so far he isnt measuring up. Im not saying it isnt in him to be one because only a fool would think that way, but the way we are using him as of late has made him ineffective. And the irony of the situation was the one game this season where a person at that position was the most effective was filling in for him while he was injured. And all he was asked to do was sit back and react for a lot more plays. I dont say abandon it completely, but lets let up a bit and let Troy do what he does best... get the ball back in Roethlisbergers hands.

paw-n-maul-u
10-25-2007, 01:32 AM
Ok, EVEN IF TROY IS OVERRATED. that makes him, what, the #5 instead of the #1 safety??

WHO CARES?

on any give day, wilson, reed, taylor, rhodes or whoever, is going to have a better day than troy. Reed is a few years older than troy. I'd rather have troy. people are delving way too much into some nonsense about this past game. We were a offensive line block or two away from winning that game. troy didnt tackle as well last year, but how can you argue with the #'s of our defense, we give up 31 pts and over 300 yrds of offense and we are still the # 1 D in the land.

screw this thread. cincy is going to look silly on sunday

SteelFist
10-25-2007, 03:48 PM
IMO, Troy is not overrated. Do I think (as Rob said) TP should be used in a more conventional way? YES.

I don't know if everyone heard coach Tomlin's press conference, but he did say that one of the "3rd and long" plays that Denver converted, Troy blitzed when he was not supposed too. He went on and mentioned that on many of the defensive errors that occured Sun night, many players were not where they should have been.

SteelFist
10-25-2007, 03:58 PM
No problem. I thought you asked a legitmate question. Personally, I would take Ed Reed over Troy as well. I like Troy a lot, but Ed Reed is...in my opinion...the best in the game.

I try not to compare the two. One plays FS the other SS. FS allows for more plays on the ball, which is why Reed gets more oppurtunities at INT's. Give me Troy's run support over Reed's anyday.

I'll go on to say that Reed is probably the best FS in the league.

Atlanta Dan
10-26-2007, 07:00 AM
Troy may or may not be overrated but he certainly is indifferent to being voted by the fans to the 75th anniversary team:

"My wife doesn't even know about it," Polamalu said. "I don't know what it has to do with anything, quite honestly. It really doesn't have much to do with anything, but I don't want to disrespect anyone because I know people do care about things like this.":sofunny:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07299/828705-66.stm

If Troy said this last year I probably would have drawn the wrong inference he did not care if he stayed in Pittsburgh or not - now it is further evidence to me that Troy has a firm idea of what is important in life and will not blow smoke at you and pretend something is important to him if it is not.

For that reason, I wish some reporter would get access to Troy to ask him what he thinks about questions regarding his the level of his performance so far this season - my guess is Troy would provide a polite but brutally honest response.

tony hipchest
10-26-2007, 11:32 AM
For that reason, I wish some reporter would get access to Troy to ask him what he thinks about questions regarding his the level of his performance so far this season - my guess is Troy would provide a polite but brutally honest response.a very accurate guess, i must say-

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_534606.html

"We had a couple busted assignments," LeBeau said. "If you look at our record, it hasn't happened very often.

"When it happens, usually the opponent's gonna find a space in there. We can't allow that to happen."

Polamalu took responsibility for being "misaligned on a big play," and said the others were "probably my fault as well, the big ones, yeah.

"I don't think there's ever been a game in football where there haven't been mental mistakes," Polamalu said. "Part of the game is being beaten physically, as well, but the more mental mistakes that you have, or that I have, you don't give the offense an opportunity to beat you physically.

"You don't give yourself a chance to win in any situation if you're already beat mentally, if you're not aligned properly, if your technique is wrong. That's before the game even becomes physical."

Dino 6 Rings
10-26-2007, 01:23 PM
The idea of using Troy, "out of position" is that the other guys in the secondary must hold their coverage long enough for him to disrupt the play he is being used to disrupt, whether it be a pass or run.

Example:
Troy lines up over the offense's right tackle. Showing Blitz, but his assignment is the TE Curl Route. In order for him to be effective, the defense end, or linebacker over the TE must chip the TE off the line to buy Troy the time he needs to fake blitz, and fall back into coverage. If the End doesn't chip, the TE will have the time he needs to get to the curl pattern and appear to be uncovered, when really, another player had an assignment on that play and didn't make it. Also, the true pressure from the offense's left side, a blitzing DB or LB, is supposed to force the QB to pass quicker than he wants, creating a situation where the TE is late to the route, the pass is early, and Troy is in the right spot at the right time.

That's defensive strategy. Nothing more, its not "freelancing" or being over or under rated. It is...what it is.

rbryan
10-26-2007, 01:38 PM
Would he still be overated if Elam misses the field goal and we pull out an ugly win in OT??

Sorry guys but you can't win every week, unless of course you have the other teams signals and know what play the're running on every snap.

Sometimes its no one's fault and there isn't anyone over or under rated.

SEMP
10-26-2007, 09:10 PM
I also believe that they do to much with Polamalu. I do think he is one of the better defenders in leauge. I would like to see a little more conservative play from the strong saftey position. This defense has the personnel to play at a high level without trying to confuse the offense all the time. I would like to see them rely on the hard physical play which they are capable of. I do beleive that woodley ( with a little more time) will be strong in the pass rushing game , most importantly without the need to disquise his intentions.

Stlrs4Life
10-26-2007, 09:54 PM
I'm a fan from the 70's as well. Donnie Shell was a heck of a safety. I still remember his hit on Earl Campbell that broke Earl's ribs. Shell was a good cover guy as well. It's hard to believe we got him as an undrafted FA.

IMO, the best safeties the Steelers have ever had were Donnie Shell and Carnell Lake. Troy is close, but I like the other two better.

Honorable mention goes to Mike Wagner and Glen Edwards.


Must agree, Donnie Shell was my 2nd favorite player next to Lambert.

delhess
10-26-2007, 09:55 PM
my God, i can't believe this thread is still alive!

isn't it this a perception question?? who is to say how troy is rated anyway? if there are that many people that think he is over rated, doesn't that mean his rating is not that good??? i think it's a dumb question.

NV STEELERS 723
10-26-2007, 10:24 PM
Troy is not overrated...MODS can we close this thread?

Welcome To Smashmouth
10-27-2007, 09:53 PM
Your kidding, right??

Remember that sensational game we had against Indy during our Super-Bowl run? We all know Peyton is among the greats when it comes to breaking down the QB position, and with that in mind I want you to go back and watch Peyton's eyes each and every pre-snap he took. "Now....where the **** is 43 lining up this time?" Thats a pretty accurate description of what you'll get trying to read his eyes.

Yes, INTs/sacks/tackles are nice to see, but for a steeler fan to not understand why Lebeau moves Troy around so much baffles me. Has Lebeau not made it blatantly clear that he knows what hes doing?!?!

Be patient my friend. While the stat sheet might show that he's not having a regular "Troy Year" the fact of the matter is he is being put in position to MAKE PLAYS, and a player of his caliber will do nothing but that when called upon

And even in his quiets of games STAT-WISE, just know that QB is earning his paycheck for ever snap he takes just trying to decipher where #43 makes his presence felt from

steel striker
10-28-2007, 07:01 AM
Take it easy guys Troy can't make the game saving stop everytime he is human you know. He is one of the best in todays game and, I'm glad he is on our team. He will have a great year just wait you will see and, last year he was hurt. Have some faith will rebound this week. We just need to bring the heat on Palmer.

desertsteel
10-28-2007, 11:36 AM
Troy rules

steeler625
10-28-2007, 02:36 PM
Okay, I've officially come across the funniest guy I've ever met. You've got to do better than this.

:thumbsup:

Lord Stiller
10-28-2007, 04:19 PM
Troy played like crap today

Fact is that Clark and Smith have played much better than Troy thus far

Glace
10-28-2007, 04:34 PM
I just think they're giving Troy a little TOO much freedom....TOO many different packages that concentrate on him moving up and down the field before the snap.

GeneralRobinson
10-29-2007, 04:58 PM
I thought this was interesting. Tomlin was asked at his press conference last week, "Why is Troy Polamalu not making plays?" This was his response:

There are no reigns on what he is capable of doing. He is doing what he is supposed to do and he is where he is supposed to be. Big plays happen when technique and opportunity meet. Those are two of the things that I sell, because I think when you don’t sell it that way, guys step outside of the box and try to much to make plays, particularly guys as talented as Troy. All he has to do is continue to play his game, execute his assignments and technique and opportunity will meet.

http://news.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/10/23/13/Coach_Tomlin_10-23-07_83492.pdf