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alittlejazzbird
11-09-2007, 02:26 PM
By Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com

In Pittsburgh's 38-7 win over Baltimore on Monday night, Ben Roethlisberger became only the fifth player since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger to throw five touchdown passes in the first half of a game.

You only can hope to contain him: Of Ben Roethlisberger's 20 TD passes this season, 12 have come on plays where he was outside the pocket.
And the fourth-year quarterback might have been the first to throw all five from outside the pocket. On each of the touchdown passes -- two apiece to wide receivers Santonio Holmes and Nate Washington, and one to tight end Heath Miller -- Roethlisberger either was flushed from the pocket by pressure or tore away from a would-be sacker and bought himself time to locate targets downfield.

In fact, a dozen of Roethlisberger's 20 touchdown passes in 2007 have come on plays where he was outside the pocket, by necessity or design. The 20 touchdown passes are a career high for Roethlisberger and currently are second-most in the league, behind only Tom Brady's 33.

Standing at just a hair under 6 feet, 5 inches, and checking in at about 240-245 pounds, Roethlisberger has demonstrated remarkable improvisational skills for a quarterback so big. He might possess the physical dimensions of a classic dropback, pocket-style passer, but he is putting up huge numbers doing things in a decidedly unconventional manner.

"It's just incredible how Ben can keep plays alive," Pittsburgh right offensive tackle Willie Colon said. "People look at him, and I'm sure they think, 'Well, that guy probably doesn't move very well.' And some of those same people are probably defensive linemen who have learned the hard way that he's a pretty good athlete, [surprisingly] elusive and hard to get on the ground. He's got real good instincts for sensing where the rush is coming from, and he's got pretty quick feet, too."

The results from the pre-draft scouting combine in 2004 show Roethlisberger was clocked at 4.75 seconds in the 40-yard dash. That isn't exactly sprinter's speed, but for a quarterback, it's pretty good. It's especially good for a quarterback known more for his arm than for his feet.

Then again, with former Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick banished from the league for an indefinite period, there aren't many quarterbacks who are regarded as strong runners.

"Maybe I should look to run, to turn it [upfield] more," Roethlisberger said Monday night. "But usually, I'm just trying to find some space for time to throw. And I always try to keep my vision down the field."

Remember when some experts suggested that Vick, because of his warp-speed acceleration and the threat he presented to defenses when he turned upfield, would revolutionize the way the game was played and the manner in which quarterbacks were evaluated? Such prognostication on the shape of the game's future always was equal parts fallacy and folly, because it essentially presupposed that scouts somehow would be able to unearth players who had Vick's unique skills.

It never was practical to believe such a thing.

So the alleged revolution that was to have been led by Vick became a de-evolution of sorts even before his suspension. The New Age that was supposed to have been ushered into the NFL when Vick entered the league in 2001 in truth came to a close long before he was led into a courtroom. And even the talent-evaluators who openly championed the era of the more mobile quarterback have come to redefine what that term really means now.

The odds are that there might never be another quarterback at the NFL level who rushes for 1,000 yards in a season. The position still is more about throwing than running and probably always will be.

Brady, after all, has only six fewer touchdown passes (33) than he does rushing yards (39). His longest run of the season was for 19 yards.

Tough sledding for QBs
There are only 11 quarterbacks who have rushed for 70 yards or more this season, and 2007 figures to be the first year since 1996 in which a quarterback does not register at least 400 rushing yards. Here are the leading rushers entering Week 10's games:

Most QB Rushing Yards (2007) Player Team Yards
Vince Young Tennessee 165
David Garrard Jacksonville 134
Jason Campbell Washington 131
Jeff Garcia Tampa Bay 111
Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh 86
Alex Smith San Francisco 83
Jay Cutler Denver 81
Tony Romo Dallas 81
Josh McCown Oakland 77
J.P. Losman Buffalo 72
Donovan McNabb Philadelphia 70

"It's kind of the revolution that never was and that never will be in this league," one NFC offensive coordinator said of the age of the running quarterback. "I mean, just look around now and tell me, where are all these running quarterbacks? You can't find them."

Through the first nine weeks, the leading rusher among quarterbacks is Vince Young of Tennessee, with 165 yards on 47 carries. He is one of only four quarterbacks who have reached triple-digit rushing yards. Just seven other quarterbacks, including Roethlisberger with 86 yards, have rushed for 70 yards or more.

This season, NFL quarterbacks have carried 636 times for 1,993 yards and 25 touchdowns, an average of 3.1 yards per carry.

Last season, when Vick rushed for a league-record 1,036 yards, he averaged 8.45 yards per carry. There are six starting quarterbacks who haven't reached 8 yards rushing this season.

Fourteen franchises have quarterbacks with cumulative rushing totals under 50 yards. Six of those have fewer than 25 yards, and three actually have negative yardage at this point of the season.

There's a good chance this will be the first season since 1996 in which the NFL won't have a quarterback with at least 400 rushing yards. In all but two of the 10 seasons since 1996, the NFL has had at least one quarterback with 525 yards.

Quarterbacks need more than singular talents to succeed, but in the NFL, a quick release will trump quick feet just about every time when scouts begin to size up quarterback prospects.

Said Tampa Bay quarterback Jeff Garcia, who has rushed for 111 yards: "For the most part, a quarterback in this league isn't paid to run for big plays. Vick was the exception. But the norm is the guy who can move around, maybe make the occasional play on the upfield run, but who uses his feet to find throwing room or to get away from the rush."

This brings us back to Roethlisberger and his underrated movement skills in the pocket.

It probably is hyperbole to suggest that Roethlisberger now represents the new model of the mobile quarterback, but he isn't a bad place to start. He is far more athletic than people think, hardly ungainly when he moves outside the pocket, and was termed "a big Doug Flutie" by Cincinnati coach Marvin Lewis.

Given how porous Pittsburgh's pass protection has been sometimes this season, that is a skill that has become well practiced. Receiver Hines Ward noted after Monday night's victory that the Steelers are making a lot of plays when the protection breaks down and Roethlisberger and his pass-catchers ad lib.

"We don't go into a game and say, 'Everybody, y'all just go out there and run around, and Ben, you just find an open guy.' That's not how our game plan works. When we get around to playing the really elite teams, we've got to be a lot crisper."

True enough. Still, it is a strength that Roethlisberger rarely loses sight of what is occurring down the field when he scrambles. And as evidenced by Monday's results, in which Roethlisberger left a legion of Baltimore pass-rushers in his wake, a quarterback who can make plays outside the pocket can frustrate a defense.

And as much as anyone in the league, Roethlisberger has come to represent the reworked concept of quarterback mobility.

"He has escapability, definitely," said Steelers first-year coach Mike Tomlin. "When he needs to get away from people, he's doing it. He is not a run-happy quarterback. Far from it. He is a quarterback who is elusive and can buy time with his athleticism when things around him break down. And that's really what you want."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3101506

Crushzilla
11-09-2007, 02:33 PM
Who cares, Len?

Running QB Revolution or Overpriced, Unsuccessful Experiment.

I'm not sure people were really expecting a revolution? Mike Vick was good for what? A season?

In a season where Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, two not generally known for mobility, lead the NFL's statistically best teams, who should give a sh*t about running QBs?

There is a difference between Running Quarterback (Vick, Texas-Era Vince) and Mobile Quarterbacks (Ben, Romo). The later, who throws first, flees second is valuable. The first kind who run first, throw long balls wildly and inaccurately, may do alright in the NCAA, but does not have a place in the NFL.

EDIT: P.S. I can't read anything Pastabelly says objectively anymore.

Atlanta Dan
11-09-2007, 04:25 PM
If Vick would have given the commitment to become a serviceable (not great - just competent) passer he would have been a devastating player with his ability to run that would have forced LBs and DBs to cheat up in coverage - Vick of course had no discipline and from a passing standpoint was about as effective as having Willie Parker or LT under center - what a waste

Afraid to say Vince Young is not indicating he will be any better at developing some rudimentary passing skills.

My concern with Ben is when you constantly throw on the run after the pocket breaks down you open up to hits like the one he took in the second half Monday night.

Edman
11-09-2007, 06:41 PM
Excuse me...Did I just read that without Vick, Ben would be nothing? Or at least a comparison? Are you kidding me? Ron Mexico is not in Ben's league.

And it also seems that Len forgot a certain Running QB named Kordell Stewart. He as well as Vick and Young all have eerie similarities. Great exciting runner, but have the QB mechanics of a rock and can't throw the ball to save his life. To be a QB in the NFL. You have to throw the ball. That sandlot stuff you did in College won't work. If Vince Young doesn't get his crap in check, It's very likely he'll be doomed to the same fate as Vick and Stewart.

Ben is a mobile QB, not a Running QB. Ben only runs around when that inconsistent seive of an O-Line in front of him breaks down in pass protection. He is a playmaker whose ability to keep plays alive is unmatched by no one else in this league, but also has the prescence and skill to throw the ball in the pocket. Len Potbelly really dropped the ball on this article.

tony hipchest
11-09-2007, 07:00 PM
Who cares, Len?

Running QB Revolution or Overpriced, Unsuccessful Experiment.

I'm not sure people were really expecting a revolution? Mike Vick was good for what? A season?

In a season where Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, two not generally known for mobility, lead the NFL's statistically best teams, who should give a sh*t about running QBs?

There is a difference between Running Quarterback (Vick, Texas-Era Vince) and Mobile Quarterbacks (Ben, Romo). The later, who throws first, flees second is valuable. The first kind who run first, throw long balls wildly and inaccurately, may do alright in the NCAA, but does not have a place in the NFL.

EDIT: P.S. I can't read anything Pastabelly says objectively anymore.

lol. it shows. you and len practically just expressed the same view yet he got ripped for having the same one as you. :hunch:

Excuse me...Did I just read that without Vick, Ben would be nothing? Or at least a comparison? Are you kidding me? Ron Mexico is not in Ben's league.

.

:sofunny: no, you didnt

holy crap, you guys sure are paranoid of the media. it was a good article. interesting subject that was well thought out and backed up with examples, yet it went right over peoples heads.

WHOOOOOSH!!!!

MasterOfPuppets
11-09-2007, 07:14 PM
lol. it shows. you and len practically just expressed the same view yet he got ripped for having the same one as you. :hunch:



:sofunny: no, you didnt

holy crap, you guys sure are paranoid of the media. it was a good article. interesting subject that was well thought out and backed up with examples, yet it went right over peoples heads.

WHOOOOOSH!!!!
i was thinkin the same thing....all the guy was saying is that the quick running athletic qb's don't cut it,and ben should be the prototype qb scouts should look for. i took it as a compliment to ben.

Crushzilla
11-09-2007, 07:18 PM
i was thinkin the same thing....all the guy was saying is that the quick running athletic qb's don't cut it,and ben should be the prototype qb scouts should look for. i took it as a compliment to ben.

Ya that's what I'm saying, too.

Call it envy, but I don't like Len. I don't think he's insightful and he snakes credit for kicking up stories all the time when Adam S at NFL Network always beats him to it.

Its all part of my anti ESPN attitude.

EDIT: I didn't even answer the criticism or explain myself well before. What I'm trying to say is no sh*t, Len. When was there any sign that the Running Back QB was going to revolutionize the sport. Its BEEN dead. So why does it kick up now? Just because he gives props Ben it can't undo my feelings for him.

steveironcity
11-09-2007, 07:35 PM
Im still curious to see what the career span of a "running QB" is. Im guessing maybe age 32 or 33.

ShutDown24
11-09-2007, 07:39 PM
Lol... I know a few Falcons fans and they are getting a hard on over Pat White... Give me a break... "It's a great fit for our system" On the outside it may seem sensible, but I think it's time for ATL to get a new system.

tony hipchest
11-09-2007, 07:49 PM
Ya that's what I'm saying, too.

Call it envy, but I don't like Len. I don't think he's insightful and he snakes credit for kicking up stories all the time when Adam S at NFL Network always beats him to it.

Its all part of my anti ESPN attitude.

EDIT: I didn't even answer the criticism or explain myself well before. What I'm trying to say is no sh*t, Len. When was there any sign that the Running Back QB was going to revolutionize the sport. Its BEEN dead. So why does it kick up now? Just because he gives props Ben it can't undo my feelings for him.
lol. yeah, i remember when shein had either laurie (owner) or tanenbaum (i think thats the eagles gm) on the show and he dropped the nugget that they had just signed kevin curtis. a few minutes later schein (who has espn on in the booth) sees len pasquarelli breaking news scroll across the bottom of the screen "curtis signs with eagles".

:sofunny: so pasquarelli gets breaking news from sirius radio? its definitely worth the $90 a year.

then again espn doesnt bug me. but neither does fox news or cnn :hunch:

RoethlisBURGHer
11-09-2007, 08:05 PM
Of course there was no revolution, a QB needs to throw the ball well, that is what a QB does.

Crushzilla
11-09-2007, 09:23 PM
Of course there was no revolution, a QB needs to throw the ball well, that is what a QB does.

That's the thing. It never was a revolution. Its been said so many times here, and I know that many other members share this sentiment, for the general public there has been two outlets of "NFL analysis:" ESPN and Sports Illustrated. Both of these are businesses, which CERTAINLY have an interest in hyping marketable players. Michael Vick, was never supposed to revolutionize the position, he was just giving those outlets an opportunity to market the position to new demographics. Mike Vick's style was "sexy," with his "sick video game moves, son!" There was an aesthetic appeal to him. He was fun to watch. To say that he was going to change the sport and the way offenses in the NFL operate was never a question for many. Quite simply, he wasn't. He didn't. He isn't and now his marketability is SHOT because of shotty play and probably the most questionable character of all active NFL players. Obviously, ESPN abandon ship (who can blame them, though.) It became clear to Len and everyone else that he wasn't going to revolutionize the position because he couldn't keep himself out of trouble. It killed his stock as a teammate, a team leader, and certainly as a marketing tool. Michael Vick, even before this whole dog debacle was dead to ESPN.

Bottom line. Len is part of the pretty little hype machine that ESPN has built through its programing, its magazine, its website, and every other means they have to spread this garbage around to the masses. I realize its the nature of the beast for a reporter to report on current trends in the sport and make their work stand out more by making bold predictions. For example, the Patriots going undefeated, being the most prolific offense of all time, etc. are all current hype platforms that ESPN seems to collectively be ramming down our throats anymore. NO ONE can argue that, and the informed fan doesn't buy it.

It all goes with the new marketability of football. Its now our nation's sport. Adding intrigue and the prospect of a "revolution" keeps people interested and tuning in. The truth is that ESPN's ratings would plummet if they just showed sports highlights and let the fans make their own assumptions about who's going to change the way the game is played and who is just another flash in the pan. They have to approach EVERY standout with the expectation that they are going to be the "next big thing." Its a reason the NFL Draft has turned into this media juggernaut.

Unfortunately, ESPN's archives only date back to January of '06, because Len, who's been pretty consistent in the articles I have seen in the past year or two, has been an avid Vick doubter. I would like to see his opinion on Vick in 2002, I believe it was, when he threw for 16 TDs, ran in 8, and only threw 8 INTS. It was at this point that people actually began to believe that Vick was going to revolutionize the position. If anyone can prove me wrong, please do, but I'm going out on a limb here and say that Len was CERTAINLY drinkin' the "kool-aid." I come to this conclusion because of Len's generally weasily demeanor (:smile:) and an article he wrote last season during Vick's two week evolution from a Running Back wearing a QBs number into a passing DYNAMO!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2643314

Maybe the past two weeks have been more an episode than an epiphany. But if Vick is finally emerging in his sixth season as a polished passer, a transformation he has struggled to convince skeptics of for much of his thin-skinned career, well, look out, NFL world. Because the guy might be unstoppable.

To me, this certainly sounds like an endorsement. I UNDERSTAND. Its his job, but read his tone in this article.

But there is now a two-week body of evidence, compiled against a pair of 2005 playoff franchises, that the passing prowess that eluded the elusive Vick for the better portion of five seasons might be taking root. He has played, as demonstrated again on Sunday at Paul Brown Stadium, under control. There actually seems to be a method to his once-maddening movements in the pocket. There is, dare we say, rhythm to his passing mechanics now. Not yet total nuance, but something bordering on it.

Statements like this, laden with undertones of flip-flopping and wishy-washiness, are his bread and butter. Sports writers would make great politicians. "I have hated on Vick now for a few seasons, because he hasn't lived up to his expectations, but I will now be able to cover my ass if he is able to keep this up." Len makes some "insightful" observations, breaks a stolen news story now and again, and basks in the glory. That's his MO. That's his job. That's why I don't like him.

Once again, the nature of the beast. But its a slam I have on a LOT of sports columnists, especially ones who stick their neck out and make strong claims to denounce or endorse any one athlete. I suppose I should find it refreshing, a guy who is willing to make a stand. The truth is I don't think Len would EVER admit he was wrong. Never fess up to counting a guy out. In this case, its Vick who has been deceiving us with crapiness and underachieving, so Len isn't to blame for hating on him. Right?

I will say this, though. Len has always seemed to be onboard with Roethlisberger even during last season's issues. He's from Pittsburgh, though, so he better :wink02:.

He also currently lives in Atlanta, so I could see his frustration with Vick being immersed in it everyday. I don't know. Maybe Len is just one of many scapegoats for everything that is wrong with mainstream sports media, but he puts himself out there, and to be honest he would probably relish in the fact that I spent so much time even talking about it.

Rhee Rhee
11-09-2007, 11:51 PM
wow... mike vick was a talent who was just to dumb and to arrogant to learn a playbook.... ben is the kind of QB who can not only be a franchise QB for years to come he is a definite HOF in my mind...

Atlanta Dan
11-10-2007, 10:54 AM
wow... mike vick was a talent who was just to dumb and to arrogant to learn a playbook.... ben is the kind of QB who can not only be a franchise QB for years to come he is a definite HOF in my mind...

Of course some of the comments regarding Ben until this year (not just media but from some Steelers players & former coaches) were that he was just too dumb and arrogant to learn a playbook (IMO Tomlin's recent comments about Ben being a "football junkie" and Tomlin saying he does not know what went on before he arrived are intended to address those comments)

Whether a QB is either an "improvisational artist" or "reckless and undisciplined" depends on whether the team wins. Lennie P. is a a good reporter with Pittsburgh roots but since he needs to file something all the time he is going to get caught in some contradictions

revefsreleets
11-10-2007, 07:42 PM
This whole thing makes no sense. Mike Vick was never a true pro QB. He was a scat back that could throw a little when he fooled the defense into leaving WR's wide open. He never learned to read defenses, never learned how to look off safeties, in fact, never learned any of the nuances of the position. His skill as a runner and rocket arm covered up his many, many inadequacies as a passer.

Preacher
11-10-2007, 07:55 PM
Of course there was no revolution, a QB needs to throw the ball well, that is what a QB does.


Not if the team goes to the Single wing!!!

:sofunny::sofunny: