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Black@Gold Forever32
11-19-2007, 07:42 PM
The time has come to run the no-huddle with Ben in shot-gun with 4 wide.....If they want Heath as one of those 4 wide then so be it......But for real with the struggles of the Oline in pass protection and even in run blocking....I think Ben in the shot gun running the no-huddle could keep defenses off balance so they can't tee off on him.....Just a thought.....:thumbsup:

PisnNapalm
11-19-2007, 07:46 PM
I like it.

It's time to revamp the o-line.

revefsreleets
11-19-2007, 08:08 PM
No huddle is good. They talked about all the time in preseason, and we never run it.

Borski
11-19-2007, 08:13 PM
Is it too late to try and trade for a better O-Line player or two.?...I dont know who we would trade anyway though...

gobig99
11-19-2007, 08:13 PM
How about Arians changes the "predictable" run on 1st, run on 2nd, and throw on third and long.
I was at the Jets game and that is all he called the whole first half.
A little bit in the second half he changed it up.
But once we went up by 3 at the end he went back to being conservative and predictable.
PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, DON'T PLAY NOT TO LOSE!
so aggrevating

Crushzilla
11-19-2007, 08:13 PM
"Bruce,

enclosed is a string cheese, a stapler, and 9 pennies. Save our offensive line."

The No Huddle would certainly be nice, but eventually, we're going to have to play ball control offense. We need to plug this leak as well as find new options. Running No Huddle... say... Week 13 is only going to start a shootout. I just don't think our line can play mistake free football as 60 minutes to win a shootout...

EDIT: I realize what sort of trouble I may be bringing to this thread with the mention of.... cheese.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-19-2007, 08:15 PM
How about Arians changes the "predictable" run on 1st, run on 2nd, and throw on third and long.
I was at the Jets game and that is all he called the whole first half.
A little bit in the second half he changed it up.
But once we went up by 3 at the end he went back to being conservative and predictable.
PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, DON'T PLAY NOT TO LOSE!
so aggrevating

I mentioned that last night that it was run,run,pass to much and putting Ben in to many 3rd and longs....With Oline struggles that type of play-calling is just letting defense tee off on Ben on 3rd and long.....

So I agree with you.....

revefsreleets
11-19-2007, 08:15 PM
How about Arians changes the "predictable" run on 1st, run on 2nd, and throw on third and long.
I was at the Jets game and that is all he called the whole first half.
A little bit in the second half he changed it up.
But once we went up by 3 at the end he went back to being conservative and predictable.
PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, DON'T PLAY NOT TO LOSE!
so aggrevating

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=325505&postcount=37

tony hipchest
11-19-2007, 08:41 PM
3wr/1te/1rb is a great formation for us in the no huddle. but its supposed to be used throwing to open up the running game. everytime i see the steelers trying to establish the run with a single back formation (up the middle) i just cringe. its ass backwards.

its not a good play unless run out of the no huddle or if the passing game has already been established. otherwise its 7 in the box stacked against 5-6 blockers. im still not sure what to make of the offense. i think it was atl dan who pointed out we may be missing j. tuman alot more than expected (a point to which i agree). m. starks penalty shows this and spaeth was doing fine as the #3 te as opposed to #2.

sometimes i wonder if tomlin is enamoured with willie parker (whats not to love?) like cowher was with bettis. either way i really dont wanna see willie pounded up the middle, without a lead blocker, against 7-8 man fronts, no more. especially not if hes gonna be leading the league in carries.

willie is tough like ben... sometimes too tough. i love the smashmouth image as much as anyone, but i dont think we will suffer an identity crisis if we go no huddle and rely on the pass game. smashmouth will have ben mirror steve mcnairs career as opposed to b. farve, j. elway (or peyton or brady- who could very well play into their late 30's).

maybe some posters were correct when they suggested the steelers were just sitting on this opened up offense until later in the season. dumb move if you ask me. maybe tomlin turtle shelled it after the pass-first failed against denver.

Edman
11-19-2007, 11:08 PM
The Steelers have a three point lead. Deshea Townsend makes a HUGE defensive play. Momentum is in the Steelers favor. Ball in Jets territory. What does Arians do? He doesn't put the game in Ben's hands to finish off the Jets. No. He plays not to lose and goes predictable run-run-pass. No creativity, no ingenuity, no quick 3-Step drops. Nothing. No adjustments whatsoever. The Steelers conceded the game right then and there. They didn't want to win. Hell no. Not with chicken playcalling like that.

When your O-Line is playing like shit and the run game is going nowhere, you don't do that. The question I have to ask is, why? Not letting the Jets dictate your style of play? Doing what we do? I thought we were past that caveman BS when Cowher left?

That's why the Steelers lost to the Jets. Wimpy, sissy playcalling. No aggressiveness or balls. Instead of playing to win, they played not to lose. That's why for years now the Steelers look like crap against bad teams. And I'm tired of it.

HometownGal
11-19-2007, 11:26 PM
either way i really dont wanna see willie pounded up the middle, without a lead blocker, against 7-8 man fronts, no more. especially not if hes gonna be leading the league in carries.



At the risk of sounding redundant . . . . .

Put Dan Kreider back in the lineup, damn it!

Preacher
11-20-2007, 03:32 AM
At the risk of sounding redundant . . . . .

Put Dan Kreider back in the lineup, damn it!

HTG...

I am not sure we want to run Kreider into a wall of Defensive Lineman.... Until we get a better line, I am not sure ANY FB will help us at this point. However, I am sure it can't hurt to try.

Galax Steeler
11-20-2007, 04:57 AM
HTG...

I am not sure we want to run Kreider into a wall of Defensive Lineman.... Until we get a better line, I am not sure ANY FB will help us at this point. However, I am sure it can't hurt to try.

Well its got to be better then what we are doing now.

GeneralRobinson
11-20-2007, 07:36 AM
The line was good enough to help produce the 5th best offense in the league. We need to look at the overall body of work. If you look at the game when Washington played Jets, they ran the ball for almost 300 yards against them and Portis had 196. So I can understand why there were a lot of runs called in the 4th quarter. If you have the AFC's leading rusher, the pass rush is getting to your quarterback, and you are playing against a bad run defense, doesn't it make sense to try and control the ball with the run? The play calling was not responsible for this loss. The execution of the play calling was.

moedap
11-20-2007, 07:47 AM
You can call the run but make sure its in formations where run isnt expected like a 2 back set. I think Tomlin and the coaches go with Vanilla game plans against so called inferior teams hoping the players win it with execution and superior play.


Carey Davis can block. He just doesnt know how to lead block. There are numerous times when he is already 3 to 4 yards in the defensive backfield on a man and WP hasnt even got the handoff. He needs to slow down.

noto45
11-20-2007, 08:38 AM
Amen to all of the comments lets just hope Bruce READS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HometownGal
11-20-2007, 08:57 AM
The play calling was not responsible for this loss. The execution of the play calling was.

:cheers::thumbsup:

Jman
11-20-2007, 09:46 AM
The play calling was not responsible for this loss. The execution of the play calling was.

Ah yes, the key word here is execution. It's the key word with any team in the NFL.

However, as stated in the other thread, where is the short passing game? If your line is hurting you, you have to adjust. Short passes gets yards, gains confidence (even for the O-line), and helps morale.

While I agree, execution is big, I would put this at a 50 / 50. Execution and play calling was not as expected.

As another individual mentioned, Hines wide right, Miller -or- Santonio in the slot (I like Miller in the slot better), and Nate wide left. Keep Dump truck and Willie (switched out with Spaeth or Miller) in the backfield for protection. 3 WR, 2 RBs or 2 WR (FL), 1 TE (in the slot) and 2 RBs.

With all this talk before the season started, that is really what I was expecting. Ben clearly has the capability of knowing where to go with the football, now let's see it.

GeneralRobinson
11-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Good point about the short passing game. Would have been worth a shot against Jets seeing as how FWP had tough sledding. I will say this. Jets did a good job in coverage against us, so it's tough to say if the receivers would have been open even with the short passing game. Like I said, worth a shot.

filthyfan
11-20-2007, 10:28 AM
The Steelers have a three point lead. Deshea Townsend makes a HUGE defensive play. Momentum is in the Steelers favor. Ball in Jets territory. What does Arians do? He doesn't put the game in Ben's hands to finish off the Jets. No. He plays not to lose and goes predictable run-run-pass. No creativity, no ingenuity, no quick 3-Step drops. Nothing. No adjustments whatsoever. The Steelers conceded the game right then and there. They didn't want to win. Hell no. Not with chicken playcalling like that.

When your O-Line is playing like shit and the run game is going nowhere, you don't do that. The question I have to ask is, why? Not letting the Jets dictate your style of play? Doing what we do? I thought we were past that caveman BS when Cowher left?

That's why the Steelers lost to the Jets. Wimpy, sissy playcalling. No aggressiveness or balls. Instead of playing to win, they played not to lose. That's why for years now the Steelers look like crap against bad teams. And I'm tired of it.


You're right on Edman. Only I'm not so sure the perceived poor performance of the O-line is just that....or Ben and his receivers not getting in cadence...he had plenty of time to drop back ...1,2,3 ...and then what? no check-off 3rd option in the flat...etc...he and his receivers were rarely on the same page in that game.

moedap
11-20-2007, 10:38 AM
You're right on Edman. Only I'm not so sure the perceived poor performance of the O-line is just that....or Ben and his receivers not getting in cadence...he had plenty of time to drop back ...1,2,3 ...and then what? no check-off 3rd option in the flat...etc...he and his receivers were rarely on the same page in that game.

A lot of the Oline blame should be deflected b/c of this. I counted his time in the Browns game and on some of the sacks i was already past "mississippi 3" and heading into "mississippi 4". On the plays where the ball was out of Bens hands on 3 it was a complete pass. If not he was moving in the pocket. You cant expect to get 5 to 6 seconds in the pocket.

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 10:52 AM
You Arians haters crack me up. The same gameplan worked flawlessly against the Ravens. The difference was that the players actually executed. If the players had executed Sunday, we would have won by a couple TD's, but they didn't, and we lost. Bill Walsh could have been calling the plays, and Joe Montana could have been the QB, and we still would have lost that game.

GeneralRobinson
11-20-2007, 10:57 AM
It wasn't until a 2nd and 18 draw for a first down against Seattle that our running became effective in that game. But that's the way it is in football. Sometimes the other team is better at stopping you.

Jman
11-20-2007, 11:14 AM
You Arians haters crack me up.

I don't know if its hating, as much as it is disagreeing, or questioning. There have been quite a few fans wondering why we don't go with more of a short passing game especially when the deep routes aren't there. That has been the season this year: Run the ball, and take shots down the field when open.

Can someone tell me the last time the Steelers pulled the screen when the blitz came? I miss the screen and short pass plays.

Like I said, 50/50. There was lack of execution, but they knew, from an offensive, and defensive perspective what was going to happen. They came prepared, and it showed in the end.

The_WARDen
11-20-2007, 01:55 PM
I like it.

It's time to revamp the o-line.

it was time to revamp it 3 years ago. :coffee:

LVSteelersfan
11-20-2007, 02:01 PM
Willie had tough sledding because they ran him up the middle. What happened to the outside runs where he got all his yards earlier this season. He is best in space with his speed to take him to the outside. Up the middle is suicide most of the time and has been all season. Im sorry but running draw plays on third and long TWICE is stupid coaching. It shows no guts or belief in the offense whatsoever. Ben should have been doing playaction to one side to Willie and rolling out the other way for some short pass plays on the other side. Anything but the crap they were calling. I hope they get their act together.

ShutDown24
11-20-2007, 02:05 PM
It's a little out there but... I like anything that takes most of the pklay calling out of Arians hands.

BurghZ0n3
11-20-2007, 02:33 PM
I was wondeing if Aryans could re-use prev Offensive playbooks? Coz his ain't workin' anymore (so much for great offensive plays when he was with d Browns)...:yawn:

Steelerstrength
11-20-2007, 03:53 PM
You Arians haters crack me up. The same gameplan worked flawlessly against the Ravens. The difference was that the players actually executed. If the players had executed Sunday, we would have won by a couple TD's, but they didn't, and we lost. Bill Walsh could have been calling the plays, and Joe Montana could have been the QB, and we still would have lost that game.

Gotta disagree with you there. When the team is not able to execute the game plan, and for some reason it's just not working, an NFL OC is experienced enought to change his plan on the fly. So are the players. They all get paid to do just that. If something isn't working, you've got to adapt.

Where were the check-off routes on 3rd & long? Everyone seemed to be running 15 yard routes on a 3rd and 8. I've watched this game 3 times, and tried to be objective, but I failed to be. We did not execute and Arians was just too predictable, when it wasn't working. It's not about having so much pride that you are abandoning the game plan. No sir! It's about accomplishing the goal of winning the game!
____________________________________
Whoever said, "Winning isn't everything" was a LOSER!
____________________________________

I know we can execute the game plan, and that we are a much better team than we displayed. That's exactly what leads me to believe that we will thoroughly demolish the 'phins! This will not be a close game at all! These players have too much pride to allow themselves to play down to that level again! I believe...

It's time to FU** THEM UP BIG TIME!!!!

moedap
11-20-2007, 05:25 PM
I was wondeing if Aryans could re-use prev Offensive playbooks? Coz his ain't workin' anymore (so much for great offensive plays when he was with d Browns)...:yawn:

I wouldnt say that. I just think it a matter of when to call certain plays that he needs work on.

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 05:27 PM
Eh, it doesn't matter. This is EXACTLY what happened to Arians in Cleveland, and I know because I live here and saw it and read it and heard it every week. When he won, his gameplans were genius, and when the Browns lost, he was a fool and every Tom Dick and Harry suddenly thought they were a better OC than Arians.

As far as adjustments, there WERE adjustments made, but the Steelers continued to fail to execute the altered plan as well.

He'll use this same plan again this season, the team will execute it to perfection, and he'll be an offensive genius again.

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 05:45 PM
Sorry, I can't let this go.

There were 41 offensive plays run by the Steelers in the second half. 3 of them were FG’s. 1 was a Ben scramble. 1 was Ben’s kneel down. There were 4 sacks. There was a fumble and a couple penalties. There were 7 short pass attempts, and 3 long pass attempts. The short pass attempts and their results are below. The long pass attempts were two in a row to Hines, one of which was completed, and the other was a deep pass to Heath that was incomplete at the end of the game. The rest were runs, MANY of which were attempts for Davenport, which in and of itself proves the Steelers were trying different things.

Anyway, the proof is here that the Steelers made offensive changes at the half, but dumb penalties, missed assignments and general poor execution invalidated those changes.


2-6-PIT 35 (14:19) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to NYJ 38 for 27 yards (24-D.Revis).

1-10-NYJ 28 (4:37) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 44-N.Davenport to NYJ 23 for 5 yards (92-S.Ellis).

1-10-NYJ 17 (3:08) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 44-N.Davenport.

2-7-PIT 39 (11:37) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 83-H.Miller to NYJ 42 for 19 yards (27-A.Elam). Penalty on NYJ-24-D.Revis, Defensive Holding, declined.

1-10-NYJ 42 (11:22) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 10-S.Holmes to NYJ 37 for 5 yards (24-D.Revis).

1-10-NYJ 29 (9:43) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to 80-C.Wilson.

1-10-PIT 37 (:16) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 44-N.Davenport to PIT 43 for 6 yards (92-S.Ellis, 54-V.Hobson).

Steelerstrength
11-20-2007, 07:46 PM
I'm not trying to argue the point, but here is the most important part of the game, 4th Q. This part just eats away at me, and is made more significant by the importance. I agree that it does come down to execution but, personally, I was not happy with these last two series.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 07:50
1-10-NYJ 45 (7:50) 39-W.Parker left tackle to NYJ 42 for 3 yards (91-S.Pouha, 55-B.Kassell).
2-7-NYJ 42 (7:12) 39-W.Parker left end to NYJ 43 for -1 yards (93-K.Coleman).
3-8-NYJ 43 (6:28) (Shotgun) PENALTY on PIT-74-W.Colon, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NYJ 43 - No Play.
3-13-NYJ 48 (6:06) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 47 for -5 yards (92-S.Ellis). FUMBLES (92-S.Ellis), touched at PIT 47, RECOVERED by NYJ-92-S.Ellis at NYJ 48. 92-S.Ellis to PIT 46 for 6 yards (74-W.Colon, 44-N.Davenport).
New York Jets at 05:53
1-10-PIT 46 (5:53) 20-T.Jones right end pushed ob at PIT 43 for 3 yards (53-C.Haggans).
2-7-PIT 43 (5:29) 11-K.Clemens pass short right to 89-J.Cotchery to PIT 38 for 5 yards (24-I.Taylor).
3-2-PIT 38 (5:04) 20-T.Jones left tackle to PIT 41 for -3 yards (92-J.Harrison).
4-5-PIT 41 (4:20) (Shotgun) 11-K.Clemens pass incomplete short left to 81-J.McCareins.
Pittsburgh Steelers at 04:15
1-10-PIT 41 (4:15) 39-W.Parker left guard to PIT 43 for 2 yards (99-B.Thomas, 91-S.Pouha).
2-8-PIT 43 (3:34) 39-W.Parker left tackle to PIT 49 for 6 yards (52-D.Harris, 27-A.Elam).
3-2-PIT 49 (2:50) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 45 for -4 yards (sack split by 93-K.Coleman and 63-D.Robertson).
Timeout #2 by NYJ at 02:43.
4-6-PIT 45 (2:43) 9-D.Sepulveda punts

Next Jet possession ends in a tying field goal, with just 23 seconds left.

Also, I'm not saying to throw him under the bus for this game. His play calling was just horrid when it counted most. And yes, I will indeed get over it as long as we win. :twocents:

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 07:57 PM
All I see is poor blocking (WP for -1 on the first series), stupid penalties (Colon penalty 1st series), poor blocking again (BR sacked and fumbles for a TO), a couple decent runs by Parker setting up a manageable 3rd and 2 (again, THAT was the gameplan) which we botched by giving up a sack and punting.

I guess it just isn't sinking in. This is Pittsburgh Steelers football. This is the way we play. This has always been the way we play. You protect leads and play conservative when you have them, relying on defense to win the game.

It works 99% of the time, and the other 1% a bunch of arm chair OC's come out of the woodwork with the correct gameplan. It's been going on since I was born, and it's quite obvious that it will probably continue after I die.

Steelerstrength
11-20-2007, 08:20 PM
All I see is poor blocking (WP for -1 on the first series), stupid penalties (Colon penalty 1st series), poor blocking again (BR sacked and fumbles for a TO), a couple decent runs by Parker setting up a manageable 3rd and 2 (again, THAT was the gameplan) which we botched by giving up a sack and punting.

I guess it just isn't sinking in. This is Pittsburgh Steelers football. This is the way we play. This has always been the way we play. You protect leads and play conservative when you have them, relying on defense to win the game.

It works 99% of the time, and the other 1% a bunch of arm chair OC's come out of the woodwork with the correct gameplan. It's been going on since I was born, and it's quite obvious that it will probably continue after I die.

First you say Arians did change the game plan, then you say that's just the way we play. Well which is it?

I did not disagree with you regarding execution. We would have won easily had we executed properly. That can be said for every loss.

Arians is far from Wiz & Cowher, in regards to play calling. And protecting a 3 point lead when things are not going well, that's a reach, and a choice to speak in generalities, in an attempt to validate your previous post coined "proof".

I'm talking about the play calling in one game, and one game only. Your diatribe in response to my point, and rebuttal to yours, unfortunately implies that I too am an arm chair OC. So calm yourself junior. We are on the same side. I wish I could just buy you a beer and be done with it. :cheers:

steelpride12
11-20-2007, 08:21 PM
Mabey not 4 wide, but overall more hurry up period. I like how Ben manages the offense and no huddle seems to suite him well i any situation so far.

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 08:30 PM
First you say Arians did change the game plan, then you say that's just the way we play. Well which is it?

I did not disagree with you regarding execution. We would have won easily had we executed properly. That can be said for every loss.

Arians is far from Wiz & Cowher, in regards to play calling. And protecting a 3 point lead when things are not going well, that's a reach, and a choice to speak in generalities, in an attempt to validate your previous post coined "proof".

I'm talking about the play calling in one game, and one game only. Your diatribe in response to my point, and rebuttal to yours, unfortunately implies that I too am an arm chair OC. So calm yourself junior. We are on the same side. I wish I could just buy you a beer and be done with it. :cheers:



If only me and Arians knew a fraction as much as you did, we'd be winning games all over the place.

fansince'76
11-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Please guys, it's only Tuesday and we've already had to hand out more infracts in the last two days than in the last 2-3 months combined.

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 08:38 PM
I need to stop coming to the football side. It's my fault. I know a lot about the game and get frustrated when people call me "junior" and become dismissive because I think the guy the Steelers pay millions to call their offensive plays probably knows more than he does.

Sheesh.

Steelerstrength
11-20-2007, 08:39 PM
If only me and Arians knew a fraction as much as you did, we'd be winning games all over the place.

Come on, Rev! You don't have to go that direction. Did I really deserve that?

Let me try to extend the Olive Branch once again. Hopefully you will re-read my posts and have a different perspective. I'm not mad at you! :smile:

Happy Thanksgiving!

revefsreleets
11-20-2007, 08:53 PM
Come on, Rev! You don't have to go that direction. Did I really deserve that?

Let me try to extend the Olive Branch once again. Hopefully you will re-read my posts and have a different perspective. I'm not mad at you! :smile:

Happy Thanksgiving!

I remember when I knew everything about football. I got better when I realized that the coaches and owners of this multi-Billion dollar industry are just a tad smarter then me and you. Well, I'm sorry, smarter than ME.

fansince'76
11-20-2007, 09:13 PM
Such a pleasant week this has been and I'm sure will continue to be. I knew it was gonna be bad after the game on Sunday, but I didn't imagine it would be THIS bad. Monday night can't get here soon enough.

Steelerstrength
11-20-2007, 09:25 PM
I remember when I knew everything about football. I got better when I realized that the coaches and owners of this multi-Billion dollar industry are just a tad smarter then me and you. Well, I'm sorry, smarter than ME.

One of my favorite quotes is "Never argue with a drunk."

Here it goes.

My enjoyment for football now comes from being a loyal fan of my Steelers, win or lose. Unfortunately, there will always be more years of not winning the Superbowl, but my love for the game will persist. The challenge and strategies of each & every game are exciting, and something I look forward to every week. Talking football with friends & colleagues is also a passion. That's why I joined this site. What better way to talk the ups and downs of Steelers football?

However, that loyalty is not blind, and I do enjoy questioning the play calling, if it results in a horrible loss. That doesn't mean I'm trying to become the next OC. Again, this was one game! And I, like many others, thought the play calling to be too predictable, because it resulted in a loss to one of the worst teams this season. I'm guilty of expecting more from a O Coach that gets paid plenty, within a multi billion dollar business.

In my posts, I have both agreed & disagreed with your points. That's part of expressing yourself and having civil, intelligent conversation. That requires dialog without resorting to slinging insults through insinuation.

I attempted to squash any further issues with you, by being direct, and "extending the olive branch". You follow that with yet another sarcastic remark. Sorry it was not enough for you.

Pull your head out! I'm just trying to debate an issue with a fellow Steelers fan.

Once again, Happy Thanksgiving!

Rhee Rhee
11-21-2007, 01:54 AM
im amazed.... at our offensive coordinators through the years...... sometimes they look like geniuses other times there our scapegoats.... i honestly think its all about the players not executing

HometownGal
11-21-2007, 08:41 AM
Such a pleasant week this has been and I'm sure will continue to be. I knew it was gonna be bad after the game on Sunday, but I didn't imagine it would be THIS bad. Monday night can't get here soon enough.

Seconded and motion carried.

C'mon people - stop with the word wars. I don't know how many times we have to say this - please debate respectfully. It really isn't that difficult. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone's opinion but throwing barbs causes the other party to become defensive and the snowballing starts.

In other words - stop being crabby apples and knock it off. :mallet: :wink02:

revefsreleets
11-21-2007, 10:09 AM
If it appeared I lost my temper, I apologize. I simply get frustrated having the same argument over and over, year after year. If that makes me classless, so be it. But being told to calm myself, being called "junior", insinuations that I'm drunk, and snide comments and condescending tone notwithstanding (even when tucked in nicely with some "can't we all just get alongs"), as with any debate on here, I always call on facts and figures to back up my assertions, and not just opinions.

I'm happy to take up Arians cause. The guy has been a coach in the NFL for many years, and is widely credited for making Peyton Manning the player he is today. The man has credentials, and it grates on my nerves to hear people question his ability to run an offense.

A little searching and I found some interesting things. First off, we may be blaming the wrong guy entirely. Look what Bruce had to say about the offense in the preseason:

Arians will give Roethlisberger the kind of autonomy quarterbacks crave. He can change plays, snap counts — pretty much anything he wants to do.
"We don't want him to be a robot," Arians said. "I'm not going to call all good plays. I want him to get me out of the bad ones."
"What he wants to call things," Arians said. "Because this is his offense; it ain't mine"'

More from Arians:

"…I love four wideouts," Arians said. "I like a better running game out of four wideouts where we can utilize them on first and second down, rather than just being in a shotgun and throwing it all the time. That will be an area we want to develop."

Arians plans to use more varied personnel groups than the Steelers did under former head coach Bill Cowher and coordinator Ken Whisenhunt.
"Three tight ends, one back, one receiver," Arians said. "We've toyed with four wideouts."

I also thought this was interesting as well. Faneca talking about the differences in the offense. Is he talking about zone blocking?

It's required some adjustment. "We're starting to jell a little bit, understand things a little more," said Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=641). "It gets real easy when you're running the same running plays for nine years. I could tell you where the running back is going to run before we even snapped the ball. That comfort level is gone."

But this is not a wholesale makeover; Arians served as Pittsburgh's wide-receivers coach the past three seasons and was well-versed in Whisenhunt's attack.
"(Arians) is trying to add to what we've already done," Miller said, "whether it's different personnel groups or doing the same things out of different formations."

HometownGal
11-21-2007, 10:27 AM
I'm happy to take up Arians cause.

I'm with you there, buddy.

A little searching and I found some interesting things. First off, we may be blaming the wrong guy entirely. Look what Bruce had to say about the offense in the preseason:

Arians will give Roethlisberger the kind of autonomy quarterbacks crave. He can change plays, snap counts — pretty much anything he wants to do.
"We don't want him to be a robot," Arians said. "I'm not going to call all good plays. I want him to get me out of the bad ones."
"What he wants to call things," Arians said. "Because this is his offense; it ain't mine"'

I brought this same subject up after the loss to the Jets on Sunday. Ben changed some play calls at the line and some of them bombed, so who knows what the original play calls were or if they would have been more effective?

Good post, Rev. :thumbsup:

Black@Gold Forever32
11-21-2007, 01:08 PM
Wow.....Reading through this is exactly why I hate posting on message boards anymore...I wasn't even bashing Bruce Arians......With the Oline's struggling all I'm suggesting is we go to the no huddle and have Ben in the shot gun with 4 wide.....

HometownGal
11-21-2007, 01:23 PM
Wow.....Reading through this is exactly why I hate posting on message boards anymore...I wasn't even bashing Bruce Arians......With the Oline's struggling all I'm suggesting is we go to the no huddle and have Ben in the shot gun with 4 wide.....

Relax Dan! I don't believe anyone was singling your post out hon.

Your opinion on the no-huddle is a very good suggestion.

Sometimes, as you know, threads take a left turn but eventually get back on track. :thumbsup: