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View Full Version : Mike Tomlin... jekyll/hyde?


Rhee Rhee
11-21-2007, 02:01 AM
i love mike tomlin like you have noo idea it's just that when we lose and when he's so calm like that i get worried that he doesn't care... idk it's great when we win though caues he never gets ahead of himself and like definitely has his head on straight... but ugh when we lose i miss having the JAW yelling at his players etc... but hey mike tomlin is much more classy..

Preacher
11-21-2007, 03:32 AM
I think it brings across the idea that they are going to be a calm customer regardless of when and what will happen.

Sharkissle29
11-21-2007, 04:02 AM
i love mike tomlin like you have noo idea it's just that when we lose and when he's so calm like that i get worried that he doesn't care... idk it's great when we win though caues he never gets ahead of himself and like definitely has his head on straight... but ugh when we lose i miss having the JAW yelling at his players etc... but hey mike tomlin is much more classy..

i know what you mean, i'd like to see a little more fire at times....i cant complain tho

HometownGal
11-21-2007, 08:27 AM
Cowher and Tomlin are mirror opposites in personality and each has their own style of fire. Cowher's was an external flame, while Tomlin's is more internal. Those players who have been with the team for several years and beyond had to make the adjustment from Cowher's spittle baths to Tomlin's calm quiet demeanor in a short period of time. Tomlin makes no secret about what makes him tick or how he interprets a win or a loss - he just seems to prefer doing so calmly. I loved The Chin's style of fire, but more and more, I am appreciating Tomlin's laid back approach and class. :thumbsup:

Counselor
11-21-2007, 09:16 AM
i love mike tomlin like you have noo idea it's just that when we lose and when he's so calm like that i get worried that he doesn't care... idk it's great when we win though caues he never gets ahead of himself and like definitely has his head on straight... but ugh when we lose i miss having the JAW yelling at his players etc... but hey mike tomlin is much more classy..

But thats exactly it---he's NOT jekle & hyde---he's the same no matter what----a bit like some other rather successful coaches recently ---the Beloved Tony Dungy and the Dispicable Belichick, and of course Chuck Noll as well.

Look-- no coach can change the personality of a verteran team in one year----the Steelers still play Cowher's emotional roller coaster---play up and down with your competition. Give it five years, and I feel like we could be rolling through every game like the colts(when their not decimated by injury) and the pats do.

He's a total throwback to Noll---and I think that's the prototype successful coach now a days. . .

touchdownward
11-21-2007, 09:35 AM
If anyone watched the post game PC, Tomlin was pissed.
I don't think there's any doubt that Mike can fire up this team, just without all the spitting. :tt02:

duma
11-21-2007, 11:00 AM
If anyone watched the post game PC, Tomlin was pissed.
I don't think there's any doubt that Mike can fire up this team, just without all the spitting. :tt02:
"Thomas Jones ran the DAMN ball on us." That was Tomlin showing anger.

touchdownward
11-21-2007, 11:05 AM
"Thomas Jones ran the DAMN ball on us." That was Tomlin showing anger.
He wasn't handing out daisies, seemed pissed to me.

Michael Keller
11-21-2007, 11:43 AM
But thats exactly it---he's NOT jekle & hyde---he's the same no matter what----a bit like some other rather successful coaches recently ---the Beloved Tony Dungy and the Dispicable Belichick, and of course Chuck Noll as well.

Look-- no coach can change the personality of a verteran team in one year----the Steelers still play Cowher's emotional roller coaster---play up and down with your competition. Give it five years, and I feel like we could be rolling through every game like the colts(when their not decimated by injury) and the pats do.

He's a total throwback to Noll---and I think that's the prototype successful coach now a days. . .

I think Tomlin is doing great. yes I agree he appears to be like Noll in so many ways. I do think there is a problem. Its a big one. There is no In the Locker Room and on The Field Leader(s) on this team> Noll had many leaders on his team.

If you were to ask the question of any reasonably informed fan who are (were) the leaders of the Steelers of the 70's you would have an incredibly long list of names:
Joe Greene, Jack lambert , Andy Russell, Lynn Swann . This was incredibly mature group of men and football players that matched up with Noll's intellectuall business like like personality. Believe me these guys and others provided incredible leadership.

Two years ago the answer would be Jerome Bettis and Joey Porter.

Today I do not believe there is anybody. I do not follow new England 's team but I believe I know their leaders on the field in the locker room. Bruchi, Vrabel and certainly Tom Brady even Jr Seau.

I think Ben has the best opportunity but he has got to quit the politics. "my offensive line did a great job. That is bull shit and he knows it . Ben is by far the best player on the team and at the most important position. Brady scream at his players. I saw Peyton Manning on the field 3 years ago during a time out telling a wide receiver something the receiver did not like. The receiver shoved manning whjile the camera was right on him. It happens but I can assure that Manning hassince established himself as a a prime leader on the calmly led Tony Dungy Colts.

Preacher suggested Anthony Smith > i agree . Smith has the basic fire. Lee Flowers was not an all pro type but he was full of fire from the moment he stepped on the field. Leaders can come from anywhere and I believe they must on this team.

It is very apparent to me that that fire is missing and it is not, nor should it come from the head coach. However I liked Bobby April's emotional energy when he was our special teams coach. I sense something is missing from these special teams coaches and that is where my criticsm of the coaching staff sarts and ends. I am ok with the rest of the coaches. Offensive play callling is not the problem but lack of player execution is.

In conclusion emotional energy is a big part of football at every level and the Steelers do not YET have it in the person of any player on this team .

Man I just hope Ben becomes that leader and soon because he is in a good place to take it over. I just hope to see him knock of the water table or hear him screaming at his offensive line. He can get away with this. It can be done in the locker room at half time.

This team is inconsistent as we all know and I think they do not have enough fire in them.

HometownGal
11-21-2007, 11:51 AM
I do think there is a problem. Its a big one. There is no In the Locker Room and on The Field Leader(s) on this team> Noll had many leaders on his team.

That is simply not true. I think Farrior, Ben and Hines have clearly demonstrated leadership with this team both on the field and in the locker room (from what I've read).

Michael Keller
11-21-2007, 11:59 AM
That is simply not true. I think Farrior, Ben and Hines have clearly demonstrated leadership with this team both on the field and in the locker room (from what I've read).

Ok Please tell me what you have read or what you have in fact seen that demonstrates EMOTIONAL OR EVEN EFFECTIVE LEADSERSHIP?

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-21-2007, 12:43 PM
Ok Please tell me what you have read or what you have in fact seen that demonstrates EMOTIONAL OR EVEN EFFECTIVE LEADSERSHIP?

Attitude reflects leadership....not play. There are too many factors to take into consideration to try and blame leadership for shotty play. For example, if our team is outplayed due to the opposition having a better game plan...it would be ridiculous to blame leadership.

Talent...game planning....execution... are all things that are beyond a "Leaders" ability to change.

The_WARDen
11-21-2007, 03:07 PM
I think it brings across the idea that they are going to be a calm customer regardless of when and what will happen.

be careful though...I live in Filthadelphia and they have that attitude on this team.
McDumpoff is the same win or lose and so is the coach...all the players have that same friggin demeanor. Fans out here hate it cause it reeks of no passion.

I'd rather have the passion.

:jammin:

msafford
11-21-2007, 04:18 PM
I think Tomlin is doing great. yes I agree he appears to be like Noll in so many ways. I do think there is a problem. Its a big one. There is no In the Locker Room and on The Field Leader(s) on this team> Noll had many leaders on his team.



I think Ben has the best opportunity but he has got to quit the politics. "my offensive line did a great job. That is bull shit and he knows it . Ben is by far the best player on the team and at the most important position. Brady scream at his players. I saw Peyton Manning on the field 3 years ago during a time out telling a wide receiver something the receiver did not like. The receiver shoved manning whjile the camera was right on him. It happens but I can assure that Manning hassince established himself as a a prime leader on the calmly led Tony Dungy Colts.


The fact is that we, no matter what we read, do not know exactly what is said in the meeting rooms or the locker rooms. for all we know, Trai Essex could be the vocal leader. (just kidding)

I definitely agree with the statement about Ben playing politics. Sometimes the best advice someone can get is a good swift kick in the a$$, and I don't think it's a real secret that the "offensive" line needs that kick in the ass. They have a job to do, and they're not doing it. Just think about what Ben would do with the cheatsies line in front of him.

HometownGal
11-21-2007, 04:40 PM
Ok Please tell me what you have read or what you have in fact seen that demonstrates EMOTIONAL OR EVEN EFFECTIVE LEADSERSHIP?

That's easy. As LLT so correctly stated above, their ATTITUDE(s) and how they carry themselves both on and off the field clearly demonstrate leadership to me. Seeing Ben on the sidelines high fiving the D when they come off the field after stopping an opponent. Ben - Farrior- Hines - not sulking after a loss and pointing the fickle finger of blame at anyone else (and at times in the case of Ben - himself), believing in their unit mates even after they've had a less than stellar performance (most recently - Ben not blaming his OL for shoddy play in the Jets game). I could go on and on with examples but I feel I've proven my point. These guys are definitely leaders imho. There are more than likely others, but these are the three that stand out to me.

steelcity58
11-21-2007, 05:47 PM
Answer is simple.

1. Tomlin is known as a "player's coach" He doesn;t rule by fear but by "respect" and
treats his players like "men". (The exact opposite of Noll and Cowher...you remember those guys...right?)

2. These same players I just mentioned get themselves up for the harder opponents
and "big games".

3.These same players also lack the DISCIPLINE....D I S C I P L I N E that they need
from someone who doesn't treat the players like men, or free spirits, but like
employees, and more importantly a team.

Where Tomlin's mistakes have come this year is in NOT getting the message across
to the "men" that "easy opponents" do not exist in the NFL anymore.

A little less "hey buddy" and a bit more "hey...you screw up and Monday you'll be
flippin' burgers at Mickey-D's is in order here I think.

Either Tomlin or a core of team leaders will realize this...in 2008.

jjpro11
11-21-2007, 06:28 PM
tomlin is a rookie head coach after all. some of these stumbles against inferior teams go with the territory of having a new head coach. cowher had those kinds of troubles his entire career. its just the way the core of this team is for some reason. we've played down to our opponents for a number of years now.

SteelDogFan
11-21-2007, 08:42 PM
I agree in the press conference to was very angry and it showed in his tone.

steelcity58
11-22-2007, 05:43 PM
I agree in the press conference to was very angry and it showed in his tone.
Good, it's time he got a little pissed.

Tomlin is a smart, and matter of fact guy, which is great.

But he is also a bit too hands off sometimes I think. These are athletes, highly paid at
that. They are not self-driven 100% of the time. That's one of the reasons team sports
exist, and why we don;t buy tickets to watch artists or rocket scientists on Sundays.

You can be a tough, induce the fear type leader and still treat your players like men.

Glace
11-23-2007, 09:03 AM
Personally I feel like the biggest fear in ANY player in the league is the fear of being benched. I think there is too much of a standard that a premiere player won't be benched just because he is a "premiere player."....as in a player that sells tickets.

But then again, on the flip-side....benching a premiere player is a huge negative in the fact that very rarely, these guys sit quietly on the bench waiting for their next opportunity. They cause problems with the media and bring bad attention to the team and that can be a huge distraction.

So how do you win?

I don't even know how to approach special teams....that unit in general needs a complete overhaul.

O-line? Do whatever it takes, man. Just keep Ben off the ground so he can make some plays. The current O-line isn't playing to the whistle....keeping their blocks until the play is over. They block for a few seconds and get beat? Why, because they suck? No, they're just giving up.


Hmm...I thought I was going somewhere with this but I think I've just rambled....

Big D
11-23-2007, 10:55 AM
i love mike tomlin like you have noo idea it's just that when we lose and when he's so calm like that i get worried that he doesn't care... idk it's great when we win though caues he never gets ahead of himself and like definitely has his head on straight... but ugh when we lose i miss having the JAW yelling at his players etc... but hey mike tomlin is much more classy..

I get sick of the criticism that tomlin gets for not spitting and hollering that cowher used to do. We are 7-3 right now and last I checked thats alot been then we were doing a year ago.

HometownGal
11-23-2007, 12:56 PM
I get sick of the criticism that tomlin gets for not spitting and hollering that cowher used to do. We are 7-3 right now and last I checked thats alot been then we were doing a year ago.

I agree, D. People are fickle as hell. Cowher got bemoaned because of his spittles and yelling and now Tomlin is bemoaned for not spitting and screaming. When Cowher didn't spit and scream last season, he was criticized for that too. Go figure. :willy: Must be that Iron City beer people drink around here. :burp:

Black@Gold Forever32
11-23-2007, 01:10 PM
The reason people got on Cowher last year was you could tell he packed it in last year....since he was going to retire after the season......

As for Mike Tomlin....I don't understand why people are getting on him....He is a rookie HC....Has he made mistakes? Yes he has but thats expected from a rookie HC and thats why I'm cutting him slack.....Plus the team is 7-3 even though in all reality this team should be 9-1.....But still 7-3 is solid with a rookie HC......

NV STEELERS 723
11-23-2007, 06:10 PM
It's still a adjustment for all of us this year to get used to how Coach Tomlin acts...we are still used to BC's spit and fire...

I love the fact that Ben loves playing for the guy though...it does make a difference when you like your coach

touchdownward
11-23-2007, 06:13 PM
i love mike tomlin like you have noo idea it's just that when we lose and when he's so calm like that i get worried that he doesn't care... idk it's great when we win though caues he never gets ahead of himself and like definitely has his head on straight... but ugh when we lose i miss having the JAW yelling at his players etc... but hey mike tomlin is much more classy..
That would be the CHIN. The Jaw is from the other Pennsylvania team and flaps his gums on MNF. :wink02:

X-Terminator
11-23-2007, 07:47 PM
Guys, it's time to move on from Cowher. Mike Tomlin is not Bill Cowher, he has never been Bill Cowher, and he never will be Bill Cowher. He is not a "fire and brimstone" kind of coach, period. But as you saw this week in both of his press conferences, when the team doesn't perform up to his expectations, he gets pissed just like any other head coach. He is trying to take a more professional approach to the games, and focusing on winning games through preparation, rather than telling the guys "you had better do this, or your ass is grass." It's simply not his style.

Emotion alone does not win football games - you also need talent and execution. Besides, do any of you know what goes on behind closed doors and when the cameras are off? How do you guys know that Tomlin doesn't give them hell when they play like crap?

GBMelBlount
11-23-2007, 09:00 PM
He is not a "fire and brimstone" kind of coach, period....

He is trying to take a more professional approach to the games, and focusing on winning games through preparation....

Emotion alone does not win football games

It does sound like he really focuses on preparation. As far as motivating the players like Ike, whether through benching him at the end of the season, or giving him 100% suppport as Tomlin did, each player is different. IMO, the best coaches learn how to best coach & motivate each player individually by how they feel each player will best respond.

As far as judging Tomlin, he is still in the first mile of a coaching marathon.

NV STEELERS 723
11-23-2007, 11:33 PM
Guys, it's time to move on from Cowher. Mike Tomlin is not Bill Cowher, he has never been Bill Cowher, and he never will be Bill Cowher. He is not a "fire and brimstone" kind of coach, period. But as you saw this week in both of his press conferences, when the team doesn't perform up to his expectations, he gets pissed just like any other head coach. He is trying to take a more professional approach to the games, and focusing on winning games through preparation, rather than telling the guys "you had better do this, or your ass is grass." It's simply not his style.

Emotion alone does not win football games - you also need talent and execution. Besides, do any of you know what goes on behind closed doors and when the cameras are off? How do you guys know that Tomlin doesn't give them hell when they play like crap?

XT... I think only the STEELERS players know what goes on behind closed doors...its pretty evident they are a private football team to the media

83-Steelers-43
11-24-2007, 12:28 AM
Thank you Ed Bouchette.............

Steelers Q&A with Ed Bouchette
Saturday, November 24, 2007
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Q: Mike Tomlin may be a "tough, no-nonsense" type of guy in the locker room and at practice, but on the sidelines, he is totally devoid of emotion -- even seen smiling and laughing at critical points in the game. Do you think that this affects THIS team negatively compared to when Bill Cowher would spit and yell at players if they were not performing? There just seems to be no accountability during the games -- the players that screw up are not getting re-directed during the game.

John Stulak, Philadelphia, Pa.

BOUCHETTE: I thought your letter was a joke before I realized you are serious. Have you watched games other than the Steelers? How does Tony Dungy, whose Colts won the Super Bowl in February, react on the sidelines? Or even Bill Belichick? Chuck Noll was as impassive as they came, and so too was Tom Landry. Bill Cowher had his style and Tomlin and many others have the opposite on game days. Plus, if he were to spit and scream and run around and wave his arms, do you think the Steelers would be 10-0 instead of 7-3?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07328/836230-367.stm

Preacher
11-24-2007, 12:50 AM
Thank you Ed Bouchette.............

Steelers Q&A with Ed Bouchette
Saturday, November 24, 2007
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Q: Mike Tomlin may be a "tough, no-nonsense" type of guy in the locker room and at practice, but on the sidelines, he is totally devoid of emotion -- even seen smiling and laughing at critical points in the game. Do you think that this affects THIS team negatively compared to when Bill Cowher would spit and yell at players if they were not performing? There just seems to be no accountability during the games -- the players that screw up are not getting re-directed during the game.

John Stulak, Philadelphia, Pa.

BOUCHETTE: I thought your letter was a joke before I realized you are serious. Have you watched games other than the Steelers? How does Tony Dungy, whose Colts won the Super Bowl in February, react on the sidelines? Or even Bill Belichick? Chuck Noll was as impassive as they came, and so too was Tom Landry. Bill Cowher had his style and Tomlin and many others have the opposite on game days. Plus, if he were to spit and scream and run around and wave his arms, do you think the Steelers would be 10-0 instead of 7-3?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07328/836230-367.stm

Interesting... Bouchette completely sidestepped the actual question... Actually, it was a nice dance step...

but the question was, doe it affect THIS team. I would think that the bottom line of the question was that the Steelers have been built partly on a foundation of emotionalism. Cowher comes out, yells, screams, gets his team pumped up... they go out and crush the opponent.

Then, in one summer, the team swings to the other extreme... the Knoll way of doing things. If the team that was built by and under Cowher was a team that responded to Cowher and his emotion, then it will take a bit for the team to learn how to respond to a coach that doesn't fire them up emotionally like Cowher.

Sure, Dungy won last year without firing up his team... but he built a team that responds to his type of leadership.

Tomlin will build this team in his likeness. They will be a great team.

steelcity58
11-24-2007, 04:17 PM
I agree, D. People are fickle as hell. Cowher got bemoaned because of his spittles and yelling and now Tomlin is bemoaned for not spitting and screaming. When Cowher didn't spit and scream last season, he was criticized for that too. Go figure. :willy: Must be that Iron City beer people drink around here. :burp:

Personally I understood every emotion Cowher ever displayed.

Yelling when he was angry and things were going bad, but also yelling when we played well.

It was like he was angry because he knew the team was good, and dammit we should be kicking the sh*t out of everyone on every play every week.

That's the way I act when watching the games.

When the Steelers are smashing someone, the better they play, the more kind of...I dunno angry/happy I get.

BC was a passionate football coach. He cared about his players, and his actions and words were not some act, some formula or strategy for motivating his players, it was real thought and real emotion.

Noll was always grim...had a scowl on his face the whole game.

He didn't rant and rave, but you could tell he was taking the thing seriously.

As he should have.

Laughing and joking while losing?

That's inexcusable in my book.

Better man up...beyotch

HometownGal
11-24-2007, 10:50 PM
Laughing and joking while losing?

That's inexcusable in my book.

Better man up...beyotch

:jawdrop::jawdrop:

Preacher
11-24-2007, 11:04 PM
:jawdrop::jawdrop:

Your emoticon says it all!

X-Terminator
11-25-2007, 11:20 PM
Laughing and joking while losing?

That's inexcusable in my book.

Better man up...beyotch

I don't think I need to add very much to this, and will allow this post to speak for itself.

Mike Tomlin, you have NO idea what you are in for as the Steelers' HC. You had better be dead solid perfect for the rest of your career and had better start ranting and raving on the sideline - even though it isn't your personality - or these fickle as hell fans will be calling for your head to be mounted on a flagpole.

moedap
11-25-2007, 11:33 PM
Sonny Jurgenson(ex Redskins QB) said on the radio no coach was ever able to motivate him to play. He said it always comes from within. He said that his energy sometimes built up so much for very important games that when they finished them win or lose depending on how they won or lose his energy would be depleted for the next week. He said he observed that for the whole of team as well. He says he still cant explain why it happens. I think thats what happen to us. 2 Divisional games with the last finishing like it did. Poof no energy. The only reason they came back in the Jets game to take the lead was because they were the superior team.