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View Full Version : Steelers to install new sod at Heinz Field Saturday


alittlejazzbird
11-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Now, I'm no landscaping expert, but I can't fathom how sod that isn't secured is going to be a steady, reliable surface on which to get and maintain good footing. I have a bad feeling about this...and darn it, I wish the Rooneys would just GET RID OF THAT GRASSMASTER ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!
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Steelers to install new sod at Heinz Field Saturday
Wednesday, November 21, 2007
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Heinz Field will have a new look to it when the Steelers play the Dolphins Monday night.

It will have a whole new field.

The Post-Gazette has learned that the Steelers this weekend will cover their entire field with new sod, placing it over the DD GrassMaster field that is mostly composed of grass. However, that grass has deteriorated as usual into November and it won't be any better after the four WPIAL high school championship games are played at Heinz Field Friday, followed by Pitt vs. South Florida Saturday afternoon.

The current turf won't be replaced but covered up by the new sod, which is heavy enough that it won't have to be tied down. The work will begin after Pitt's game ends.

It's the first time sod will cover the DD GrassMaster that was installed four years ago.

"Our goal is to do everything in our power to provide the best possible conditions for both teams,'' Jimmie Sacco,, director of Heinz Stadium management said in a statement released by the Steelers this afternoon.

"After considering the number of high school, college and pro football games being played at Heinz Field in November, combined with the possibility of inclement weather, we believe this will be the best way to go.

"We will continue to use our regular playing surface in the future, but feel this option will provide for the most enjoyable game day experience for both the players and the fans in the final games of the season."

The sod will stay in place through the rest of the 2007 NFL season.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07325/835844-66.stm

Stlrs4Life
11-21-2007, 04:32 PM
Put in field turf, it will be cheaper in the long run.

klick81
11-21-2007, 05:40 PM
I'm not familiar with the sod. Is it just a grass carpet or something?

revefsreleets
11-21-2007, 05:52 PM
Put in field turf, it will be cheaper in the long run.

Amen.

At least this new turf will be an equal disadvantage to both the Steelers and the visitors, since it will be a complete unknown. It seems to me so far that the opposition has actually played better on our crappy grass than we have!

Jeremy
11-21-2007, 05:56 PM
Field Turf is not without it's very vocal critics.

Grass is still the best surface you can have. But seeing as how Pittsburgh seems committed to using Heinz Field like a damned high school sports complex, it's probably better that they switch to some kind of aritficial turf.

jjpro11
11-21-2007, 06:24 PM
ben will get killed by field turf with the current state of our oline.

Borski
11-21-2007, 06:29 PM
add extra padding in the FieldTurf...

I know Grass is overall better to play on but with how many games are played in Heinz it would probably be better if we went with FieldTurf. I think players like FWP and Holmes could excel on turf, it should give them a little extra speed.

SteelCityMan786
11-21-2007, 06:50 PM
I'm not sure I quite understand this either. It seems to me that this would tend to be just as slick as the surface they now have, especially if it's just laying on top of the DDGM. What will keep it from coming up in chunks?

I'm definitely no playing surface expert. Does anybody else have any thoughts or knowledge about this?

My bet is that will help hold down a lot more.

Field Turf Bites. I have been pancaked on it a couple of times because of my own stupidity. The Burns DO NOT feel good at all AND The turf over time can be a breeding ground for mosquitoes(MUCH WORSE THEN GRASS) and diseases such as Skin Infections(Especially if it's not treated properly). In addition in storms(I saw this at Johnstown's field during last year's playoff) the turf can form MASSIVE puddles which make even more slick. Although a friend of mine who played with me this year that played football on our varsity team last year prospered pretty well in it.

Bottom Line, the grass is fine, it just need to be better taken care of.

revefsreleets
11-21-2007, 07:39 PM
That's the problem, though. They play too many games on the grass, so they CAN'T take any better care of it.

After just a quickie search, I found this:

http://www.fieldturf.com/football/highProfile.cfm?highProfileID=4

Steelerstrength
11-21-2007, 08:07 PM
Field Turf is an awesome product, that can easily withstand the rigors of the tremendous demands placed by Pitt football.

My company installs Commercial Fitness Equipment, Rubber Flooring, Wood Flooring (for Group Fitness), and Indoor Turf. We do not install Field Turf because of the elaborate preparation that goes into the proper engineering of the ground for drainage etc. Part of the process entails the use of Laser for the ground prep. They take the surface down at least 18 inches, compact with soil, then sand, checked again for drainage, prior to installing the Field Turf.

The Field Turf comes in different lengths of low abrasion blades, and is touted as anti-microbial. Spec's also include a very stable infill, that aids in less leg fatigue, precise directional changes, and comparitive ground shock to real grass surface. .

Personally, I think it comes down to the proper installation of the real Field Turf. There are many competitive lines of Turf available, and are quite a bit less expensive. I've played around on Field Turf, but never in a real game. Others may have a better opinion from a players perspective. Ultimately I believe it better to play on real grass, but it appears that won't work for the demands of Heinz Field.

Hope that helps. :smile:

fansince'76
11-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Maybe the reason they're installing new sod now is that the college and high school football seasons are pretty much over(?) :hunch:

EDIT: I just checked the NCAA schedule and Pitt's last game of the year at home is this Saturday afternoon. Not sure about the high school playoffs, though. I'm assuming that since the article stated the new sod would be laid this Saturday, it will be after the Pitt/South Florida game(?) :hunch:

Atlanta Dan
11-21-2007, 08:16 PM
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result - plant a grass field at Heinz followed by a season of Steelers, Pitt, & high school games and the field will be unplayable mud by Thanksgiving.

Playing on fresh sod with no roots on top of mud should be an interesting experience Monday night:dang:

Because it is a Monday night game maybe the league finally will step in after these conditions are displayed nationwide like it did at Gillette to force FieldTurf to be installed.

Atlanta Dan
11-21-2007, 08:18 PM
Maybe the reason their installing new sod now is that the college and high school football seasons are pretty much over(?) :hunch:

EDIT: I just checked the NCAA schedule and Pitt's last game of the year at home is this Saturday afternoon. Not sure about the high school playoffs, though. I'm assuming that since the article stated the new sod would be laid this Saturday, it will be after the Pitt/South Florida game(?) :hunch:

Maybe at halftime

revefsreleets
11-21-2007, 08:20 PM
Well, at least they are taking some kind of action. I've been at the last two games, and it looks like green dirt. Before the Browns game they were just dumping sand on the field to sop up water in the muddiest parts. It's been like this every year towards the end of the year, and by the last week, the field is mostly dirt and/or mud.

fansince'76
11-21-2007, 08:25 PM
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result - plant a grass field at Heinz followed by a season of Steelers, Pitt, & high school games and the field will be unplayable mud by Thanksgiving.

Playing on fresh sod with no roots on top of mud should be an interesting experience Monday night:dang:

Because it is a Monday night game maybe the league finally will step in after these conditions are displayed nationwide like it did at Gillette to force FieldTurf to be installed.

Is FieldTurf that expensive? It seems to me laying down new sod over the entire field wouldn't exactly be cheap, and the reduced maintenance costs alone would make FieldTurf an attractive alternative to what they have there now. And I agree, it will do nothing for the poor footing.

tony hipchest
11-21-2007, 08:55 PM
Maybe the reason their installing new sod now is that the college and high school football seasons are pretty much over(?) :hunch:

:hunch:nah, they just think all the new grass will distract ricky "chong" williams. :chuckle:

SteelCityMan786
11-21-2007, 10:06 PM
Is FieldTurf that expensive? It seems to me laying down new sod over the entire field wouldn't exactly be cheap, and the reduced maintenance costs alone would make FieldTurf an attractive alternative to what they have there now. And I agree, it will do nothing for the poor footing.

Field Turf to install can cost up to 1 million for the initial project. currently our high school is 335,000 dollars behind in payments and the price went from $750,000 to $885,000. The replacement projects can cost a fraction of it because you don't have to install a base. The turf can only go 10-12 years at most when grass you can use it for as much as long as you want.

Maybe the reason they're installing new sod now is that the college and high school football seasons are pretty much over(?)

EDIT: I just checked the NCAA schedule and Pitt's last game of the year at home is this Saturday afternoon. Not sure about the high school playoffs, though. I'm assuming that since the article stated the new sod would be laid this Saturday, it will be after the Pitt/South Florida game(?)

The WPIAL Playoffs are all being played on Friday.

Borski
11-21-2007, 11:23 PM
Maybe at halftime

that would make a great show, if they dont finish in time what happens?

Mosca
11-22-2007, 08:27 AM
Well, considering that 1) it sucks, and 2) there will be 5 games in the next 2 days, this might be a good idea.

Heinz Field getting new turf for MNF (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/22/bc.fbn.heinzfield.grass.ap/index.html)

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Heinz Field is getting a makeover, and a quick one, too.

The Steelers will put down a new grass playing field in time for Monday night's game against the Dolphins, but must wait until four Pittsburgh-area high school championship games on Friday and the South Florida-Pitt game on Saturday afternoon are played.

With intermittent rain forecast all week, the Steelers were concerned that the pounding their current field will take this weekend might create a poor playing surface on Monday.

"Our goal is to do everything in our power to provide the best possible conditions for both teams," Heinz Field director of management Jimmie Sacco said Wednesday in a statement. "After considering the number of high school, college and pro football games being played at Heinz Field in November, combined with the possibility of inclement weather, we believe this is the best way to go."

Running back Willie Parker complained of being unable to gain good footing during the Steelers' last home game, a 31-28 victory over Cleveland on Nov. 11. Monday night's game will be the 10th played at Heinz Field this month.

Several Browns players, including kicker Phil Dawson, said Heinz Field has the worst surface in the NFL.

The new sod will remain in place for the rest of this season. After this weekend, the only games scheduled at Heinz Field are Steelers' home games Dec. 2 and Dec. 16, though they might play multiple playoff games there in January.

Currently, Heinz Field has a hybrid surface of mostly natural grass interwoven with plastic fibers known as DD GrassMaster. Sacco said that field will not be torn up.

"We will continue to use our regular playing surface in the future, but we feel this option will provide for the most enjoyable game-day experience for both the players and the fans in the final games of the season," Sacco said.

The Steelers have resisted replacing their grass field with a grass-like artificial turf, as the New England Patriots did last year. The Steelers already have such a surface in the indoor practice complex they share with Pitt.

Despite complaints about Heinz Field's pockmarked sod and sparse grass, NFL players repeatedly specify a preference for grass fields rather than artificial turf during regular playing field surveys.

Atlanta Dan
11-22-2007, 11:48 AM
Mike Tomlin was asked about the field Tuesday at his weekly news conference, and the Steelers' coach downplayed the impact its trouble spots have had during games.

"In regards to the field," Tomlin said, "as long as we deal with it better than our opponent, I love our field."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_539212.html

That certainly is a ringing endorsement of the field:smile:

As far as the official Rooney party line about players preferring grass over artificial turf, here is a link to a story (admittedly put out by FieldTurf) that lists the rankings of the NFL fields by the players in the 2006 NFLPA survey - Field Turf apparently is not as reviled by the players as the Rooneys might lead us to believe. The ranking of Gillette was before the Pats were forced to switch from grass to FieldTurf by the league office.

Heinz was #29 and presumably has now dropped behind Gillette to #30.

http://newsblaze.com/story/2007020210234500002.pz/topstory.html

SteelCityMan786
11-22-2007, 02:43 PM
Mike Tomlin was asked about the field Tuesday at his weekly news conference, and the Steelers' coach downplayed the impact its trouble spots have had during games.

"In regards to the field," Tomlin said, "as long as we deal with it better than our opponent, I love our field."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_539212.html

That certainly is a ringing endorsement of the field:smile:

As far as the official Rooney party line about players preferring grass over artificial turf, here is a link to a story (admittedly put out by FieldTurf) that lists the rankings of the NFL fields by the players in the 2006 NFLPA survey - Field Turf apparently is not as reviled by the players as the Rooneys might lead us to believe. The ranking of Gillette was before the Pats were forced to switch from grass to FieldTurf by the league office.

Heinz was #29 and presumably has now dropped behind Gillette to #30.

http://newsblaze.com/story/2007020210234500002.pz/topstory.html

The Steelers grass usually isn't out of control till December though, The Pats I think are usually earlier then others because they have games there year round since I believe the MLS team calls Gillete Stadium Home. Incase people haven't notice, soccer can cause a lot of field damage. I saw it happen at RFK Stadium while the Nationals played there.

Sharkissle29
11-22-2007, 05:28 PM
Put in field turf, it will be cheaper in the long run.

field turf sucks, the game is meant to played on grass....thats actually one thing i love about the rooneys, love the dirty uniforms

fansince'76
11-22-2007, 05:41 PM
field turf sucks, the game is meant to played on grass....thats actually one thing i love about the rooneys, love the dirty uniforms

I love the old school mentality of that sentiment, but after watching Willie miss multiple chances at breakaway TDs because the field "tackled" him, I unfortunately cannot share it.

Glace
11-22-2007, 05:55 PM
They forced the Pats to get Field Turf....why? Well, what happens when the Colts come to town? IT ISN'T FAIR!!!....lol.

When the Steelers/Pats rivalry takes off to the proportion of hype that the Colts/Pats games get...they'll force the Steelers to adopt FieldTurf.

As for the condition of the field? How bout an easy fix of not allowing highschool games to be played there? You can't tell me their revenue from high-school games eclipses the cost of having to re-sod the field at the end of the season.

SteelCityMan786
11-22-2007, 06:16 PM
They forced the Pats to get Field Turf....why? Well, what happens when the Colts come to town? IT ISN'T FAIR!!!....lol.

When the Steelers/Pats rivalry takes off to the proportion of hype that the Colts/Pats games get...they'll force the Steelers to adopt FieldTurf.

As for the condition of the field? How bout an easy fix of not allowing highschool games to be played there? You can't tell me their revenue from high-school games eclipses the cost of having to re-sod the field at the end of the season.

Well, this kind of stuff the WPIAL kills for. This is like a dream come true for players at the high school level. Kids like me don't get to play at these kind of stadiums.

fansince'76
11-22-2007, 06:18 PM
As for the condition of the field? How bout an easy fix of not allowing highschool games to be played there?

On a (mostly) publicly-funded field? Good luck with that. The taxpayers own the field, not the Rooneys. I agree with the sentiment, but I doubt it will happen.

Atlanta Dan
11-22-2007, 09:24 PM
They forced the Pats to get Field Turf....why? Well, what happens when the Colts come to town? IT ISN'T FAIR!!!....lol.

When the Steelers/Pats rivalry takes off to the proportion of hype that the Colts/Pats games get...they'll force the Steelers to adopt FieldTurf.

As for the condition of the field? How bout an easy fix of not allowing highschool games to be played there? You can't tell me their revenue from high-school games eclipses the cost of having to re-sod the field at the end of the season.

Leaving aside the fact the field usually is shot by Halloween before the 4 WPIAL games are played, with the high school games just making the problem worse, the WPIAL can pay the Rooneys the cost of the annual resodding of the field when the Rooneys pay back the taxpayer subsidy for building Heinz.

Glace
11-23-2007, 08:42 AM
Plus, and I know this may be seen as irrational....

The Bus never had a problem with a swampy field. Davenport doesn't seem to have a problem either.

Get Willie some longer cleats and tell him to suck it up!!

What happens when you take a sports car out in the snow? It sits there spinning it's tires while big heavy SUV's are passing by laughing. Hell, put some weight in his shoes or something (or just teach the kid PATIENCE).....I'd gladly sacrifice a few breakaway runs as long as we get consistency.

steel striker
11-23-2007, 10:35 AM
Unless we get better protection somehow Ben is going to Killed on any surface we play on. I also think we need to put parker and davenport and kreider for extra bloicking so Ben might stand a chance. I can't beleive i'm still fuming about our Jets loss. Then to watch Dallas who really do not do anything special shut the Jets down. I know our defense do not play well the other day. Sorry i know this is off topic. We just better win on Monday night. I'm sure we will. Maybe this will Willie have better footing but, it's not like he did much against the jets.

OneForTheToe
11-23-2007, 12:04 PM
Leaving aside the fact the field usually is shot by Halloween before the 4 WPIAL games are played, with the high school games just making the problem worse, the WPIAL can pay the Rooneys the cost of the annual resodding of the field when the Rooneys pay back the taxpayer subsidy for building Heinz.


Agreed and agreed ... I remember when the debate about the Stadium was raging. Wasn't one of the arguments in favor of the new stadium that it would be open for use other uses like high school football games? In fairness to the Rooneys they have never blinked on this issue.

Steel Warrior
11-23-2007, 12:49 PM
I'm certainly no turf expert but it seems to me that if you bury the DD Grassmaster under a layer of sod that the "natural grass interwoven with plastic fiber" will be smothered and die, perhaps it's already dead though.
:smoker:

revefsreleets
11-23-2007, 05:48 PM
My guess is that, as of this late date, there are two things left on Heinz Field: Brown dirt and green plastic fibers, and some nice new grass can't hurt either.

Crushzilla
11-23-2007, 06:08 PM
My guess is that, as of this late date, there are two things left on Heinz Field: Brown dirt and green plastic fibers, and some nice new grass can't hurt either.

Watching the WPIAL games right now I can tell you its pretty tore up, I think there is still another game to be played, as well.

SteelCityMan786
11-23-2007, 10:37 PM
Watching the WPIAL games right now I can tell you its pretty tore up, I think there is still another game to be played, as well.

Yeah, in about 14 Hours. Pitt vs. USF.

Borski
11-23-2007, 10:48 PM
Watching the WPIAL games right now I can tell you its pretty tore up, I think there is still another game to be played, as well.

is there a place I can see pictures of the game so I can see how bad it is?

Preacher
11-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Found a fascinating link for this discussion.

It looked at Texas highschool football, and the injuries which happened on Grass, field turf, and astroturf.

Realize however, the study seems to be provided by the field turf company.

http://www.sportssafety.org/swf/field-turf-vs-natural-grass.swf

Borski
11-24-2007, 12:55 PM
Oh man, I see it now in the Pitt/USF game....and it sucks

OneForTheToe
11-24-2007, 01:12 PM
Oh man, I see it now in the Pitt/USF game....and it sucks


Well, the field sucks... but the bad surface has probably slowed USF down, because I think they have he speed advantage in this match-up.

SteelCityMan786
11-24-2007, 06:13 PM
Well, the field sucks... but the bad surface has probably slowed USF down, because I think they have he speed advantage in this match-up.

The adjusted and still won.

Atlanta Dan
11-25-2007, 08:18 AM
Maybe the Steelers (or the league office?) finally have seen enough and the grass field is on the way out after this season

The Steelers are investigating artificial surfaces and it appears they might install one at Heinz Field before the start of the 2008 season.

They acknowledged the surface on their field was not good enough when they covered it with new sod this weekend for tomorrow night's game. Now they are looking to take the next step and put something down permanently.

They have been particularly interested in the new surface West Virginia University has this year. WVU installed a new generation of Field Turf this summer called Duraspine at the cost of $901,152. The Steelers sent some of their people to WVU to take a look at the turf there.

The Steelers have practiced on a different version of Field Turf at their indoor facility since 2000, as has Pitt. The Panthers added an artificial turf called Sportexe on one of their outdoor practice fields next to the Steelers this year.

Pitt also has been urging the Steelers to install an artificial turf. Imagine trying to recruit quarterbacks, wide receivers and running backs and showing them in November or December the kind of surface on which they will play their home games. It can only be a recruiting disadvantage.

"In partnering with Sportexe, we were able to make our outstanding practice facility even greater with the installation of a cutting-edge synthetic turf surface," said former Pitt athletic director Jeff Long at the time the new turf was installed.

If they're bragging about it helping their practices, imagine what an artificial turf can do for games!

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07329/836557-66.stm

Good to read Pitt is telling the Rooneys the old school field is not a big selling point for recruiting

GeneralRobinson
11-25-2007, 08:26 AM
Steelers are on the record saying earlier this week in a statement that they will continue to use their regular playing surface in the future. Sounds like wishful thinking by Ed Bouchette to me that they will switch surfaces.

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2007, 01:12 PM
Steelers are on the record saying earlier this week in a statement that they will continue to use their regular playing surface in the future. Sounds like wishful thinking by Ed Bouchette to me that they will switch surfaces.

Same here. I don't buy what Ed is writting. If they had comment from the Steelers, then maybe I'd consider it.

Atlanta Dan
11-25-2007, 02:15 PM
Same here. I don't buy what Ed is writting. If they had comment from the Steelers, then maybe I'd consider it.

So you expect the Steelers to say on the record in mid-season "yeah, we finally admit we screwed up and will be switching to FieldTurf next season, but it is too late for this season so we will live with our mistake and play in that quagmire for the remaining 3 regular season games and any home playoff games." Not likely.

No different than a player saying he plans to be with his current team forever until he leaves.

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2007, 02:35 PM
So you expect the Steelers to say on the record in mid-season "yeah, we finally admit we screwed up and will be switching to FieldTurf next season, but it is too late for this season so we will live with our mistake and play in that quagmire for the remaining 3 regular season games and any home playoff games." Not likely.

No different than a player saying he plans to be with his current team forever until he leaves.

For this year, yes. Especially since they have no less then 3 to no more then 5 more home games yes.

As for the future, only if the Rooney's don't have a change of heart.

GeneralRobinson
11-25-2007, 07:16 PM
Bottom line. If the field is playable and player safety is not compromised, there is no reason to change surfaces.

Atlanta Dan
11-25-2007, 07:41 PM
Bottom line. If the field is playable and player safety is not compromised, there is no reason to change surfaces.

No game has been cancelled because of an "unplayable" field, but the 2006 NFLPA rankings certainly indicate the lowest ranked fields skew towards grass fields in the Midwest and Northeast.

26 Kansas City
27 Chicago
28 Cleveland
29 Pittsburgh
30 New England (Before FieldTurf)
31 Oakland Raiders


Several teams in those climates have given up on grass - I guess those teams just like to waste $$.

GeneralRobinson
11-25-2007, 07:48 PM
No game has been cancelled because of an "unplayable" field, but the 2006 NFLPA rankings certainly indicate the lowest ranked fields skew towards grass fields in the Midwest and Northeast.

26 Kansas City
27 Chicago
28 Cleveland
29 Pittsburgh
30 New England (Before FieldTurf)
31 Oakland Raiders


Several teams in those climates have given up on grass - I guess those teams just like to waste $$.

And those players overwhelmingly said they would prefer a natural surface to an artificial one.

Atlanta Dan
11-25-2007, 07:54 PM
And those players overwhelmingly said they would prefer a natural surface to an artificial one.

Maybe in Tampa or San Diego - I keep hearing that chestnut without attribution.

Please link to any survey where players have said they prefer slop to artificial turf being put in at Heinz.

GeneralRobinson
11-25-2007, 08:22 PM
That depends on your definition of slop. Do you define the Baltimore and Cleveland games as slop? I don't. Willie Parker not withstanding, I felt both games were of high quality. Not as much slipping as people seem to recall.

Was the field a lush, green pasture this past Friday and Saturday? No. But that didn't stop two teams from playing what some called the greatest AAAA WPIAL high school championship ever on that field. It didn't stop Pitt and South Florida from scoring 85 points on that field. The field couldn't have affected play that much.

Dan, you and I will clearly have to agree to disagree on this issue. Part of my position has to do with my belief that football should be played on grass. That adjusting to the elements is part of the game. That both teams, playing in the same conditions, have an equal obstacle to overcome and the team that handles the elements best will come out ahead. Part of it is that I believe that more wear and tear will occur on players' bodies on Field Turf or a similar surface (Ben Roesthlisberger's comment about the Terrell Suggs hit which he says would have caused him to miss games if it had been on an artificial surface).

Bottom line from my perspective, keep the natural surface, keep it as playable as possible, keep it as safe as possible, and accept the fact that we don't live in a sunny, warm climate that allows for an Augusta National putting green surface all year.

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2007, 08:37 PM
That depends on your definition of slop. Do you define the Baltimore and Cleveland games as slop? I don't. Willie Parker not withstanding, I felt both games were of high quality. Not as much slipping as people seem to recall.

Was the field a lush, green pasture this past Friday and Saturday? No. But that didn't stop two teams from playing what some called the greatest AAAA WPIAL high school championship ever on that field. It didn't stop Pitt and South Florida from scoring 85 points on that field. The field couldn't have affected play that much.

Dan, you and I will clearly have to agree to disagree on this issue. Part of my position has to do with my belief that football should be played on grass. That adjusting to the elements is part of the game. That both teams, playing in the same conditions, have an equal obstacle to overcome and the team that handles the elements best will come out ahead. Part of it is that I believe that more wear and tear will occur on players' bodies on Field Turf or a similar surface (Ben Roesthlisberger's comment about the Terrell Suggs hit which he says would have caused him to miss games if it had been on an artificial surface).

Bottom line from my perspective, keep the natural surface, keep it as playable as possible, keep it as safe as possible, and accept the fact that we don't live in a sunny, warm climate that allows for an Augusta National putting green surface all year.

Amen General. You and I are on the same page.

This what makes football great. Great teams respond to harsh enviornments. Great, we have grass that gets trashed by the end of the calendar year, oh well, you see teams that also tend to get bad Grass conditions such those of a Philadelphia in our Geographical Climate switching there surface to a field turf? HELL NO. Why? because both of our franchise owners know that football is meant for grass!

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2007, 08:44 PM
No game has been cancelled because of an "unplayable" field, but the 2006 NFLPA rankings certainly indicate the lowest ranked fields skew towards grass fields in the Midwest and Northeast.

26 Kansas City
27 Chicago
28 Cleveland
29 Pittsburgh
30 New England (Before FieldTurf)
31 Oakland Raiders


Several teams in those climates have given up on grass - I guess those teams just like to waste $$.

Philadelphia and Baltimore would beg to differ. Their Pre-Season game when the Eagles still had the vet was cancelled because of an unplayable field.

Atlanta Dan
11-25-2007, 09:09 PM
I agree we will agree to disagree, but if you are going to cite the Rooney party line that claims players prefer grass to artificial turf in wintry climates I would like to see some data or at least a link to a survey to support that contention.

The fact that Heinz ranked 29 out of 31 in last year's NFLPA rankings and that the lowest rated fields were, with the exception of Oakland, grass fields in the Northeast or Midwest certainly supports the inference the players believe putting a different surface at Heinz would be an improvement.

In addition, the fact that the league office stepped in and told Kraft to dump the grass field in Foxboro indicates to me that neutral sources believe playing on a bad grass surface as opposed to an artificial surface has a negative impact on the quality of the game.

:cheers:

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2007, 09:34 PM
I agree we will agree to disagree, but if you are going to cite the Rooney party line that claims players prefer grass to artificial turf in wintry climates I would like to see some data or at least a link to a survey to support that contention.

The fact that Heinz ranked 29 out of 31 in last year's NFLPA rankings and that the lowest rated fields were, with the exception of Oakland, grass fields in the Northeast or Midwest certainly supports the inference the players believe putting a different surface at Heinz would be an improvement.

In addition, the fact that the league office stepped in and told Kraft to dump the grass field in Foxboro indicates to me that neutral sources believe playing on a bad grass surface as opposed to an artificial surface has a negative impact on the quality of the game.

:cheers:

I thought they Patriots decided to do that on their own terms?:confused:

Borski
11-25-2007, 09:39 PM
I thought they Patriots decided to do that on their own terms?:confused:

Although I can't verify it, I also heard the league stepped in and made them change it.

GeneralRobinson
11-25-2007, 09:46 PM
Attached is the link of the 2006 NFL PLAYERS PLAYING SURFACES OPINION SURVEY.

I haven't read through all of it, but more players thought artificial infill surfaces contributed more to injury vs grass (64.93% to 7.06%), caused more soreness and fatigue (73.87% vs 4.89%), and was more likely to shorten a players' career (67.11% vs 2.25%).

http://www.turfgrasssod.org/webarticles/articlefiles/130-NFLPA_Players_Playing_Surface_Survey.pdf

Atlanta Dan
11-25-2007, 09:50 PM
Attached is the link of the 2006 NFL PLAYERS PLAYING SURFACES OPINION SURVEY.

I haven't read through all of it, but more players thought artificial infill surfaces contributed more to injury vs grass (64.93% to 7.06%), caused more soreness and fatigue (73.87% vs 4.89%), and was more likely to shorten a players' career (67.11% vs 2.25%).

http://www.turfgrasssod.org/webarticles/articlefiles/130-NFLPA_Players_Playing_Surface_Survey.pdf

Good find

:cheers::thumbsup:

But if the players prefer grass fields why are the bottom 7 fields (I assume Gillette moved up after FieldTurf was installed) all grass fields? :confused:

not arguing/just asking

Lots of data here - two teams had >50% saying home field was poor (Pats pre-FieldTurf and Steelers)

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 12:06 AM
guess the new field is all set and ready.

Borski
11-26-2007, 12:13 AM
I dont understand slide 7
RANKING THE BEST GRASS PLAYING FIELDS

TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM
CAROLINA PANTHERS: BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM
ARIZONA CARDINALS: UNIVERISTY OF PHOENIX STADIUM
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: ALLTEL STADIUM
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS: QUALCOMM STADIUM
DENVER BRONCOS: INVESCO FIELD
WASHINGTON REDSKINS: FED EX FIELD
HOUSTON TEXANS: RELIANT STADIUM
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: MONSTER PARK
GREEN BAY PACKERS: LAMBEAU FIELD
MIAMI DOLPHINS: DOLPHINS STADIUM
TENNESSEE TITANS: LP FIELD
PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: LINCOLN FINANCIAL FIELD
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: ARROWHEAD STADIUM
CHICAGO BEARS: SOLDIER FIELD
CLEVELAND BROWNS: CLEVELAND STADIUM
PITTSBURGH STEELERS: HEINZ FIELD
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: GILETTE STADIUM
OAKLAND RAIDERS: MCAFEE COLISEUM

RANKING THE WORST GRASS PLAYING FIELDS
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: GILETTE STADIUM
PITTSBURGH STEELERS: HEINZ FIELD
OAKLAND RAIDERS: MCAFEE COLISEUM
MIAMI DOLPHINS: DOLPHINS STADIUM
CHICAGO BEARS: SOLDIER FIELD
GREEN BAY PACKERS: LAMBEAU FIELD
PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: LINCOLN FINANCIAL FIELD
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: ARROWHEAD STADIUM
TENNESSEE TITANS: LP FIELD
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: MONSTER PARK
CLEVELAND BROWNS: CLEVELAND STADIUM
HOUSTON TEXANS: RELIANT STADIUM
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS: QUALCOMM STADIUM
DENVER BRONCOS: INVESCO FIELD
WASHINGTON REDSKINS: FED EX FIELD
TAMP BAY BUCCANEERS: RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: ALLTEL STADIUM
CAROLINA PANTHERS: BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM
ARIZONA CARDINALS: UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM

COPYRIGHT ? 2006 NFLPA

shouldn't one be in reverse order of the other?

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 12:30 AM
I dont understand slide 7


shouldn't one be in reverse order of the other?

exactly.

Atlanta Dan
11-26-2007, 08:03 AM
Today's P-G story states the newly sodded field should hold together:

Because each strip of sod is so heavy, the new material will not have to be tied down or secured and the feet and bodies of football players should not be able to displace the grass, Mr. Sacco said.

Seams in the sod will not present a problem, Mr. Ecton said.

"It will be really hard to pick them out after we are done working," he said

But then again, maybe not:smile:

Weather forecasters were predicting rain last night and throughout today. Mr. Sacco would not comment on what effect rain might have on the new surface other than to suggest that fans pray for good weather.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07330/836770-66.stm

HometownGal
11-26-2007, 09:02 AM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but our weather forecast here in the Burgh today and particularly tonight doesn't bode well for the new sod. It's been raining here all morning and we're forecasted to receive almost an inch of rain between today and tonight.

Monday: Rain likely. High 56F. Winds SSE at 5 to 10 mph. Rainfall near a half an inch.

Monday night: A steady rain this evening. Showers continuing overnight. Low near 40F. Winds W at 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 70%. Rainfall around a half an inch.

GeneralRobinson
11-26-2007, 09:11 AM
At least the field will be covered until a couple of hours before kickoff. Two words...Longer cleats!

TackleMeBen
11-26-2007, 09:12 AM
i personally think that football should be played on grass and not in a dome.. play in the rain and snow and whatever else god wants to throw at you... domes are for wimps, real men play football outside:tt02:

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 09:45 AM
i personally think that football should be played on grass and not in a dome.. play in the rain and snow and whatever else god wants to throw at you... domes are for wimps, real men play football outside:tt02:

You should tell that to the people who helped bring my school their grass turf.

Borski
11-26-2007, 04:44 PM
i personally think that football should be played on grass and not in a dome.. play in the rain and snow and whatever else god wants to throw at you... domes are for wimps, real men play football outside:tt02:

I agree with the dome and playing in the weather, but with the physical damage done to the grass and the climate its in, it would probably be better overall if we made a switch to FieldTurf would be better over all in this situation. I have been down on the field of Tropicana Field (where the Devil Rays play) and they have FieldTurf and it feels like your walking on grass, it feels almost exactly the same as a perfectly mowed lawn.

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 04:56 PM
I agree with the dome and playing in the weather, but with the physical damage done to the grass and the climate its in, it would probably be better overall if we made a switch to FieldTurf would be better over all in this situation. I have been down on the field of Tropicana Field (where the Devil Rays play) and they have FieldTurf and it feels like your walking on grass, it feels almost exactly the same as a perfectly mowed lawn.

However, getting the crushed fibers stuck in your shoes can be a pain.

Borski
11-26-2007, 05:16 PM
However, getting the crushed fibers stuck in your shoes can be a pain.

I havent played on it, but it seemed like it would be too soft to get stuck into a shoe or something.

lilyoder6
11-26-2007, 06:41 PM
i think it's funny that they put the new sod over the old sod and now it's pouring like a mug and the drainage is horrible...

steelpride12
11-26-2007, 06:42 PM
i personally think that football should be played on grass and not in a dome.. play in the rain and snow and whatever else god wants to throw at you... domes are for wimps, real men play football outside:tt02:

I agree that would show what teams are really made of playing in bad snow and rain, and still being able to dominate.....boys that sounds like the steelers to me!

:tt02::tt02:

HometownGal
11-26-2007, 06:45 PM
Raining cats and dogs here in the Burgh.

Pompeani and Bouchette are reporting now on KDKA that the new field has nowhere to drain and the field is "muck", though it is presently covered by a tarp. I hope FWP wears the super duper cleats tonight.

Atlanta Dan
11-26-2007, 07:04 PM
Raining cats and dogs here in the Burgh.

Pompeani and Bouchette are reporting now on KDKA that the new field has nowhere to drain and the field is "muck", though it is presently covered by a tarp. I hope FWP wears the super duper cleats tonight.

:dang::dang::dang::dang::dang::dang::dang::dang:

I guess nobody thought that might happen if you lay down unrooted sod and need to press it together to avoid seams

Imagine rain outdoors in November - who knew?

revefsreleets
11-26-2007, 07:06 PM
Hey, it may be "muck", but at least it's our muck. Hopefully we play better than the opposition on our crappy new field. God knows they've looked more comfortable so far on our crappy old field.

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 07:07 PM
i think it's funny that they put the new sod over the old sod and now it's pouring like a mug and the drainage is horrible...

The Tarps haven't been pulled yet. They'll be pulled by 7:30 though because of NFL Rules.

Atlanta Dan
11-26-2007, 07:19 PM
Poking pitchforks into the turf for drainage?

Contrary to the Rooney happy talk, definite seams in the bog according to ESPN

What a ****ing disgrace - IMO this will be it for grass at Heinz - the Steelers may tolerate this crap but other teams are going to say enough is enough

Borski
11-26-2007, 07:26 PM
Poking pitchforks into the turf for drainage?

Contrary to the Rooney happy talk, definite seams in the bog according to ESPN

What a ****ing disgrace - IMO this will be it for grass at Heinz - the Steelers may tolerate this crap but other teams are going to say enough is enough

Its so freakin' lumpy, people are gonna trip all over the place, there will people be people twisting there ankle or worse on how bad this sod is.

Atlanta Dan
11-26-2007, 07:33 PM
This from Ed.B. of the P-G

They began about 5:30 to roll back the tarp at its various seams and when they did, discovered a mushy, muddy field. They are raking and dumping diamond dry on the puddles to try to clear it up.

"It's a shame,'' one person in the Steelers organization said.

The Steelers had rolls of sod installed over the weekend over the top of their DDGrassMaster surface that includes mostly Kentucky bluegrass tied down with synthetic fibers.

The sod looked great -- until it rained. Somehow the water leaked through the five seams connecting the tarps, something it was not supposed to do.

Hurting it further is the fact that the original surface has drainage, which practically was eliminated when they rolled out the heavy sod.

http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/blogngold/

What is a shame is that it has come to this - I have always thought what would get the Rooneys to get over their old school selves and dump this field would be an injury or a loss in which the rotten field was a factor. That time may be tonight.

Borski
11-26-2007, 07:51 PM
What is a shame is that it has come to this - I have always thought what would get the Rooneys to get over their old school selves and dump this field would be an injury or a loss in which the rotten field was a factor. That time may be tonight.

I agree. Putting FieldTurf in will not make us some pansy team like others seem to have been implying, we will still be playing in all the same weather, but on a field that can take the pounding it will get.

SteelerFan091472
11-26-2007, 08:19 PM
They just show a shot of the field at Heinz Field on ESPN and the middle of the field looks like a lake.

Haiku_Dirtt
11-26-2007, 08:19 PM
Poking pitchforks into the turf for drainage?

Contrary to the Rooney happy talk, definite seams in the bog according to ESPN

What a ****ing disgrace - IMO this will be it for grass at Heinz - the Steelers may tolerate this crap but other teams are going to say enough is enough

What's the problem? I see conditions like this often.

It's called a freakin' rainforest - not Heinz Field. Talk about disgrace 'snowballing' on national TV.

I have a solution. STOP playing WPIAL and NCAA games on the NFL field. I wonder who pockets the proceeds from this man-made disaster each year.

Atlanta Dan
11-26-2007, 08:25 PM
What's the problem? I see conditions like this often.

It's called a freakin' rainforest - not Heinz Field. Talk about disgrace 'snowballing' on national TV.

I have a solution. STOP playing WPIAL and NCAA games on the NFL field. I wonder who pockets the proceeds from this man-made disaster each year.

It is notan NFL field - FedEx Field in DC and Gillette in New England are privately built NFL fields.

Heinz was rammed down the collective throat of Western PA taxpayers after they voted down the financing plan in 1997. Part of the deal is that Pitt plays there and, since the taxpayers paid for doubling the value of the Rooney's investment in the Steelers, the high schools play there every November.

Since that degree of use was not only anticipated but pretty much required, the field is shot every November. Now it is going to hit an all time low on a nationally televised Monday night game, which at least will get FieldTurf installed.

Jeremy
11-26-2007, 08:28 PM
It is notan NFL field - FedEx Field in DC and Gillette in New England are privately built NFL fields.

Heinz was rammed down the collective throat of Western PA taxpayers after they voted down the financing plan in 1997. Part of the deal is that Pitt plays there and, since the taxpayers paid for doubling the value of the Rooney's investment in the Steelers, the high schools play there every November.

Since that degree of use was not only anticipated but pretty much required, the field is shot every November. Now it is going to hit an all time low on a nationally televised Monday night game, which at least will get FieldTurf installed.

The wonderful alternative was trying to put more lipstick on the pig that Three Rivers Stadium had become.

Borski
11-26-2007, 08:29 PM
What's the problem? I see conditions like this often.

It's called a freakin' rainforest - not Heinz Field. Talk about disgrace 'snowballing' on national TV.

I have a solution. STOP playing WPIAL and NCAA games on the NFL field. I wonder who pockets the proceeds from this man-made disaster each year.

It would be great if we could do that, then we wouldnt need to change to FieldTurf or anything....but the problem is the field is paid for by taxpayers, not the Steelers.

Edit: Atlanta Dan beat me to it

Jeremy
11-26-2007, 08:32 PM
The Rooney Family can come up with a million dollar gift to the city of Pittsburgh to get turf installed. For Pete's sake, my high school in Somerset has Field Turf!

Atlanta Dan
11-26-2007, 08:41 PM
The wonderful alternative was trying to put more lipstick on the pig that Three Rivers Stadium had become.

I live and die with the Steelers every fall from Atlanta, but my contribution to the NFL coffers is limited to my DirecTV Sunday Ticket payments. Not everyone thinks the best use of tax dollars is to subsidize rich professional athletes and richer owners of professional sports teams.

Los Angeles seems to be hanging in there without a NFL team and an economy as wealthy as that of San Francisco is not falling over itself to build a new stadium for the 49ers.

Jeremy
11-26-2007, 08:51 PM
I live and die with the Steelers every fall from Atlanta, but my contribution to the NFL coffers is limited to my DirecTV Sunday Ticket payments. Not everyone thinks the best use of tax dollars is to subsidize rich professional athletes and richer owners of professional sports teams.

Los Angeles seems to be hanging in there without a NFL team and an economy as wealthy as that of San Francisco is not falling over itself to build a new stadium for the 49ers.

LA doesn't care about anything besides the Lakers, and San Fran won't even hire more police officers much less build a decent athletic arena.

SteelCityMan786
11-27-2007, 09:34 PM
The Rooney Family can come up with a million dollar gift to the city of Pittsburgh to get turf installed. For Pete's sake, my high school in Somerset has Field Turf!

Somerset, PA I assume you are speaking of? looks like the same stuff we have down here in Hollidaysburg. Their Varsity Team gave us a run for our money, but we still came out on top but fell to the eventual district champion.

bratsinmybelly
11-28-2007, 01:51 AM
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result - plant a grass field at Heinz followed by a season of Steelers, Pitt, & high school games and the field will be unplayable mud by Thanksgiving.

Playing on fresh sod with no roots on top of mud should be an interesting experience Monday night:dang:

Because it is a Monday night game maybe the league finally will step in after these conditions are displayed nationwide like it did at Gillette to force FieldTurf to be installed.

Prophetic.

Rhee Rhee
11-28-2007, 02:57 AM
Now, I'm no landscaping expert, but I can't fathom how sod that isn't secured is going to be a steady, reliable surface on which to get and maintain good footing. I have a bad feeling about this...and darn it, I wish the Rooneys would just GET RID OF THAT GRASSMASTER ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!
It will have a whole new field.

my gosh u called it right on