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View Full Version : Moss is more valuable than Brady


tony hipchest
11-23-2007, 08:14 PM
great whitlock article (i agree with every point)

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7472596

although all the brady ball washers posting after it seem to take exception.

No offense to Tom Brady, one of my favorite NFL players of all time, but Randy Moss is the MVP of the National Football League.

It ain't even close.
Seriously, denying Randy Moss this year's Associated Press MVP award would be borderline criminal. If Allen Iverson is the answer in basketball, Randy Moss is the question that no one in football can answer.

How do you stop him?

He can't be stopped; he can only slow himself, as he did for a couple of miserable years in Oakland.

Brady is on the brink of shattering every single-season passing record known to mankind and the Patriots are well on their way to smashing every scoring record. And we love nothing more in this country than showering superstar quarterbacks with awards, hype and credit.

But Randy Moss should not and cannot be denied this season. His impact on the football field is so obvious and so overwhelming that even Joe Buck should cast an MVP vote for Mr. Moss. The value of wide receivers has never been more evident than this season.


Randy Moss has 66 catches for a team-leading 1,052 yards and 16 touchdowns in New England's perfect start. ( / Getty Images)

Terrell Owens earned Tony Romo a $67 million contract and paved the road Philly fans will use to escort Donovan McNabb out of town. Marvin Harrison went down with a knee injury, and Peyton Manning's feet got happy again and his interception total escalated.

Look, it's still a quarterback's league. Manning and McNabb are great players. Romo is headed for greatness. But they're significantly diminished without their favorite toys.

Moss is a kingmaker. This isn't the first time he made a good offense outstanding. The scoring record the Patriots are chasing is the standard Moss' 1998 Vikings established. In that same year, Moss, a rookie at the time, turned 35-year-old Randall Cunningham into the league's top passer. Cunningham threw 34 TDs and 10 INTs and the Vikings finished the regular season 15-1.

Denny Green looked as smart as Bill Belichick.

Randy, despite 17 TDs and 1,313 receiving yards, didn't win the MVP that year because Terrell Davis took a run at Eric Dickerson's single-season rushing record, cracking 2,000 yards.

Well, the excuse this year will be Brady's numbers. I'm not knocking Brady. He's an incredible player. He's just not as valuable as Randy Moss.

There's only one Randy Moss. When he shows up motivated, focused and ready to have fun, records fall, defenses quiver, quarterbacks have once-in-a-lifetime seasons and his teams win ... by lots of points.

Moss is doing more for Brady than Brady is doing for Moss. The same thing could be said about Cunningham and Jeff George, who both looked Elway-esque winging footballs to Moss.

This week George pointed out to me what makes Moss different from every receiver who has ever played the game.

"Intimidation," George explained. "Defensive backs are trained to turn and play the football. Guys are too scared to turn away from Randy. You'll see two DBs running with Randy, but they'll never turn and find the football because they're too afraid to take their eyes off Randy. As a quarterback, you just throw it up to Randy no matter the coverage because you know he'll be only guy looking for the football."

How many times have we seen that this season ? two guys wrapped around Randy and Brady floating a ball into traffic?

This isn't a co-MVP situation. It's not a slap at Brady, one of the three best QBs of all time.

It's long overdue recognition for Moss. It's long overdue acknowledgement that receivers ? given today's rules about defensive-back contact and the prevalence of three- and four-receiver offenses ? can have as much impact on a game as quarterbacks.

Moss reminds me of Shaquille O'Neal. We took O'Neal for granted during his prime on the basketball court, and he won just one MVP award. In retrospect that's ridiculous. O'Neal's impact on the NBA far exceeds Steve Nash's, and Nash has won multiple MVP awards.

Moss isn't likely to surpass Jerry Rice as the greatest of all time. Rice was too consistent and was a driving force in the 49ers dynasty. Rice vs. Moss will be like the Bill Russell-Wilt Chamberlain debate. Except we didn't deny Wilt a few MVP trophies.

Let's no longer deny Randy Moss. Yes, he used to be extremely immature. His effort at times was atrocious. None of that matters this year. With defenses doing everything within reason to slow him, Moss has 16 TD receptions, more than 1,000 receiving yards, the Patriots are 10-0, and, most important, Moss has made Tom Brady the second-most-valuable player in football

Borski
11-23-2007, 09:56 PM
I knew he had a questionable past, but since I heard he was on the market I was hoping we would me a play for him. I was really disappointed when I heard how cheap the Pats got him for.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-23-2007, 09:58 PM
I don't know if Randy has helped Brady more then Brady has helped Randy.....Its safe to say his two years in Oakland Randy Moss didn't look like MVP material.....While Tom Brady was already great without Randy.........Its safe to say the Pats making that trade for Randy saved his career.........Some interesting points but I would still give the MVP to Brady....With Favre being a close second...Hell I think Big Ben should be ahead of Randy Moss.....

tony hipchest
11-23-2007, 10:31 PM
I don't know if Randy has helped Brady more then Brady has helped Randy.....Its safe to say his two years in Oakland Randy Moss didn't look like MVP material.....While Tom Brady was already great without Randy.........Its safe to say the Pats making that trade for Randy saved his career.........Some interesting points but I would still give the MVP to Brady....With Favre being a close second...Hell I think Big Ben should be ahead of Randy Moss.....
fwiw, after the baltimore game (and before ben was annointed by the national in the browns game) cowher said his 2 mvps would be ben and moss.

Moss is doing more for Brady than Brady is doing for Moss. The same thing could be said about Cunningham and Jeff George, who both looked Elway-esque winging footballs to Moss.



i cant argue with this. ive followed moss since college and brady all his career and ive always been more impressed with moss' talents. ive seen plenty of qb's do (and who can do) what brady does, on any given sunday. ive seen brady make throws this year, that had favre and ben leading the league in interceptions. moss is a player you see only once every generation or so. if brady can win a superbowl 3x with the assistance of a kicker, theres no doubt that moss will help him even more. however, the patriots would still win the afc east with matt cassell, my momma, jamarcus russell, or vinnie testaverde as qb.

personally my vote would go to favre 1a and moss 1b. i think moss would have the same numbers if he went to green bay then again, favre turns receivers into stars, and brady turns them into junk (with exception to troy brown, who bledsoe made).

NV STEELERS 723
11-23-2007, 11:21 PM
Bradshaw was the STEELERS. Elway was the Broncos. Marino was the Dolphins. Farve is the Packers. Brady is the Pats...... that POS Moss is a pre-madonna put me on a winning team and I will put out VS put me on the Jets and I will be a lil bitch!

Indy_Steelers
11-24-2007, 06:59 AM
I do not agree with the statement that Manning and McNabb are great players. Sportscasters throw that word around way too much. Stats do not make a player great. If they change the rules because of a players dominant play, that makes you great. (i.e.-Mel Blount & Joe Greene). Also Manning does not make the players around him better, we are seeing that now with the Colts injures. Joe Greene made people around him better.

HometownGal
11-24-2007, 08:38 AM
I don't know if I would hand the League MVP to Moss on a silver platter, but I have to agree that having Moss has taken A$$ Chin to an even higher ground. While Brady has other viable targets, Moss has proven himself to be at the top of the elite WR category this season and without him, though A$$ Chin would still be considered an elite QB, I don't know for certain if the Pats (or Brady) would have been this successful from the start of the season to where they are now without Moss. The Cheatsies have been very fortunate thus far keeping both Fairy Tom and Moss healthy, as I don't believe for one minute that without one or the other (or both) - they would be an undefeated team and the scoring machine they have become. I wouldn't count Moss out of the MVP award, but with Favre having a career season and no doubt in my mind that he is what makes the Pack tick this season, I'd have to lean a little more towards Brett for the League MVP award.

83-Steelers-43
11-24-2007, 09:28 AM
If I were a Patriots fan (shoot me in the head) and somebody came up to me and asked me to pick between Moss or Brady, I would take Brady in a second. Brady was winning Super Bowls long before Moss arrived.

Bottomline IMO, if Brady ends up getting injured that team is done. If Moss is out, they would survive. Brady is the head of the snake.

Rhee Rhee
11-25-2007, 12:10 AM
I completely agree with this.... I feel recievers are so underrated.. look at what TO did to donovan look at donovan now... look what TO did to Tony Romo.. no way we would have ever heard of him had TO not gone to the cowboys.. look what Anquan boldin and FITz did for Kurt Warner!! for cryin out loud he was gonna go off in the sunset.. but now he came bak for a bit and was considered a top 10 fantasy QB... while i think QB's and O-line are most important Recievers are definitely underrappreciated. o btw look at the stupid brownies.. braylon kellen and mr,juervicous turnede derek anderson from a virtual nobody to this years tony romo

LambertIsGod58
11-25-2007, 07:14 AM
Bradshaw was the STEELERS. Elway was the Broncos. Marino was the Dolphins. Farve is the Packers. Brady is the Pats...... that POS Moss is a pre-madonna put me on a winning team and I will put out VS put me on the Jets and I will be a lil bitch!

Bradshaw was the Steelers? I'd bet 11 defensive players and Franco Harris would have something to say about that....

LambertIsGod58
11-25-2007, 07:17 AM
If I were a Patriots fan (shoot me in the head) and somebody came up to me and asked me to pick between Moss or Brady, I would take Brady in a second. Brady was winning Super Bowls long before Moss arrived.

Bottomline IMO, if Brady ends up getting injured that team is done. If Moss is out, they would survive. Brady is the head of the snake.

Thank You...someone finally understands. Moss MVP over Brady? Are you kidding me? Brady didn't need Moss to be a winner. What has Moss won before coming to NE? On top of all that....Brady is hitting other receivers. He has made Welker a better receiver and he always uses his TE's. I believe Brady has hit his TE's and Vrabel more often that any other team. To say that one piece of Brady's puzzle is the MVP is crazy!!

revefsreleets
11-25-2007, 04:03 PM
Moss would revert back to whatever the Hell you call him if the L's started piling up. I hate Brady. He's smug and arrogant and a crybaby when things don't go his way, but he's a great QB whether the team is winning or not (I'm going to go wash my hands for 3 hours now after actually touching the keys that spelled that out!). Moss is a POS if there is the slightest bit of adversity.

And Whitlock lost me last week when he said that Missouri/Kansas is the greatest rivalry in college football. Yeah, it was a nice game, and the people in those two states care some, but the game hasn't ever been relevant before and probably won't ever be again.

Big D
11-25-2007, 04:08 PM
You take moss out the pattys still have welker, stallworth and ben watson. You take brady out you have matt cassell. Sounds to me that brady is more valuable

tony hipchest
11-25-2007, 04:25 PM
you take moss off the pats and you have the same old brady youve had any other year... one who was NEVER voted as league MVP :hunch:

we all know brady is the most important person on his team. but it is the mvp of the league award and not a lifetime achievement award. moss is said to be the difference of a sb this year. brady wasnt the difference in the past 2.

brady needs moss. moss needs any above average qb who has above average protection in the pocket.

make no mistake about it though, moss is a frontrunner. just like t.o. and chad johnson, they are mdp's (most disruptive player) if they dont have mvp type numbers.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-25-2007, 04:49 PM
Brady has won without Moss ,and doesn't "need" him. He has won with a less that stellar receiving corp. Brady is by far the most important player on that team. Moss has helped him tremendously this year by padding his stats, but they would still be undefeated IMO without Moss.

tony hipchest
11-25-2007, 04:59 PM
Brady has won without Moss ,and doesn't "need" him. He has won with a less that stellar receiving corp. Brady is by far the most important player on that team. Moss has helped him tremendously this year by padding his stats, but they would still be undefeated IMO without Moss.then how come they werent undefeated last year, or the year before, or ever? stallworth and welker are good players, but they are no more the difference makers than branch, gaffney, caldwell, or gabriel were/are, without moss on the other side of the field.

revefsreleets
11-25-2007, 05:05 PM
The Pats went undefeated this year?

Gosh, where did my 2007 go? I seem to have shuffled it off around Thanksgiving!

silver & black
11-25-2007, 08:25 PM
I don't know if Randy has helped Brady more then Brady has helped Randy.....Its safe to say his two years in Oakland Randy Moss didn't look like MVP material.....While Tom Brady was already great without Randy.........Its safe to say the Pats making that trade for Randy saved his career.........Some interesting points but I would still give the MVP to Brady....With Favre being a close second...Hell I think Big Ben should be ahead of Randy Moss.....

I realize he was on a bad team, but he didn't lift a finger to help his own, or the Raiders' cause. The guy was a complete and utter quitter... a total waist of roster space. For that, I will alway despise him.

The year he is having with the Pats is proof of what a front running, immature , quitting little bitch he really is. The Raiders may have won another game or two had quitter boy actually put forth some effort. But no... he wasn't on a winning team, so he just quit.

Would I be upset if I were Moss last year?...HELL YES! Would I have quit on my team and teammates because I wasn't happy?...HELL NO! Thats because I'm a man, and Randy is a little bitch. FUKC RANDY MOSS! :flipoff:

LambertIsGod58
11-26-2007, 07:45 AM
then how come they werent undefeated last year, or the year before, or ever? stallworth and welker are good players, but they are no more the difference makers than branch, gaffney, caldwell, or gabriel were/are, without moss on the other side of the field.

I don't know how someone who knows football could honestly say what you are saying....was Moss a winner in Minnesota? NO. Was Moss a winner in Oakland? NO. If Moss is the show like you seem to claim, why is this Moss's first taste of being on a Superbowl contending team? Brady may have never went undefeated before, but it's not like NE didn't add Welker and Stallworth. Brady is a winner without Moss. Always has been and always will be. The same can not be said for Moss without Brady.

CantStop85
11-26-2007, 09:05 AM
The difference between a team with Moss and without Moss is a couple of regular season wins.

The difference between a team with Brady and without Brady is the difference between a dynasty and a mediocre franchise.

LambertIsGod58
11-27-2007, 09:31 AM
then how come they werent undefeated last year, or the year before, or ever? stallworth and welker are good players, but they are no more the difference makers than branch, gaffney, caldwell, or gabriel were/are, without moss on the other side of the field.
/

arguing if they will go undefeated b/c of Moss and that Moss is the MVP over Brady are two entirely different things. NE would not go undefeated w/o Brady. That's for sure. Your arguement doesn't hold any water IMO.

The Patriot
11-27-2007, 06:01 PM
If the Steelers could choose which Patriots player, Brady or Moss, had to sit out for our upcoming game, who would it be? Come on. I think Brady has earned himself some respect.

revefsreleets
11-28-2007, 08:44 AM
If Brady gets hurt, or sits, the Pats are an 8-8 (alright, they play in the AFC East. make it 10-6) team. Moss has the ability to add/detract maybe 1 win or loss himself. Brady IS that team.

tony hipchest
11-28-2007, 08:57 AM
I don't know how someone who knows football could honestly say what you are saying....was Moss a winner in Minnesota? NO. Was Moss a winner in Oakland? NO. If Moss is the show like you seem to claim, why is this Moss's first taste of being on a Superbowl contending team? Brady may have never went undefeated before, but it's not like NE didn't add Welker and Stallworth. Brady is a winner without Moss. Always has been and always will be. The same can not be said for Moss without Brady.i cant understand how somebody who knows football would forget the 98 vikings. you know, the last nfc team to go 15-1 and the one that still holds the offensive scoring record. yep. rookie wr and td leader (17) randy moss. vikings were the favorite for the superbowl just like the 01 rams and the 07 patriots. randy isnt in unchartered waters, its just been a while. so long infact that many of the newer fans forget that he was and is the show.

anyways, anybody can feel free to actually read the article. nobody is saying moss deserves to go into the hall of fame more than, or before brady.

the league mvp is not a lifetime achievement award. moss should not be penalized because he is eroneously characterized as never winning a game before he became a patriot. brady should not be rewarded for accomplishments before this season (such as being the beneficiary of cheating). im sure he will be voted team mvp just like he is every other season though. and im sure the national media nut rubbin will continue.

LambertIsGod58
11-28-2007, 11:38 AM
i cant understand how somebody who knows football would forget the 98 vikings. you know, the last nfc team to go 15-1 and the one that still holds the offensive scoring record. yep. rookie wr and td leader (17) randy moss. vikings were the favorite for the superbowl just like the 01 rams and the 07 patriots. randy isnt in unchartered waters, its just been a while. so long infact that many of the newer fans forget that he was and is the show.

anyways, anybody can feel free to actually read the article. nobody is saying moss deserves to go into the hall of fame more than, or before brady.

the league mvp is not a lifetime achievement award. moss should not be penalized because he is eroneously characterized as never winning a game before he became a patriot. brady should not be rewarded for accomplishments before this season (such as being the beneficiary of cheating). im sure he will be voted team mvp just like he is every other season though. and im sure the national media nut rubbin will continue.

15-1 without the prize.....so what did that get Moss? Nothing. I didn't remember the 15-1 Vikings, and I'll bet alot of others don't either. That should tell you something. I'd say that no one remembers #2, but they weren't even that...........

revefsreleets
11-28-2007, 04:45 PM
I remember the '98 Vikings. Randall Cunningham had his best season as a pro. Chris Carter and Robert Smith played a pretty big role as well.

Incidentally, Cunningham, not Moss, was voted the Vikings team MVP that year.