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View Full Version : The Government Should Have To Work!!


Elvis
11-26-2007, 05:46 AM
:coffee:
I got a great email this morning that put a new perspective of how I think about our Government Having " In God We Trust" and Ten Comandments taken out of Government settings and the American Dollar. The Government is trying to take everything that our country was founded upon away. No More prayers in schools... cant get out and preach on the sidewalks unless you have a permit?... are you kidding me?
This email will be available to anyone that wants it... just send me a private message and give me your email address and I will forward it to ya.
What is it all about? It tells all the days of the year or pretty much most of them, that our government takes off with pay for Holidays that involve God/Jesus. They say that these days are just another day, but boy are they up and willing to take a paid holiday off for'em. I think just like the email says and They Should Have To Work on these Holidays since they dont believe in them anyway. I know that this isnt gonna be everyones' favorite thread to respond to, but everyone of us are paying the folks for them to be off and not support our Christian beliefs. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 02:03 PM
Countdown to January 20, 2009

420 days. End of Bush Administration

klick81
11-26-2007, 02:40 PM
As much as I dislike all the religious talk on any board, I gotta admit this one makes sense.

SteelCityMan786
11-26-2007, 03:03 PM
As much as I dislike all the religious talk on any board, I gotta admit this one makes sense.

Perhaps a seperate forum for this. I know not a lot of people want to see this, so why not a seperate forum for this kind of talk.

fansince'76
11-26-2007, 03:09 PM
I worked for the federal government for 13 years, and there were ten holidays a year I received paid days off for. Only one of them had anything to do with religion, and that was Christmas. The other nine?

New Year's Day - not religious.

Martin Luther King Day - not religious.

President's Day - not religious.

Memorial Day - not religious.

Independence Day - not religious.

Labor Day - not religious.

Columbus Day - not religious.

Veteran's Day - not religious.

Thanksgiving Day - not religious.

The one other holiday that federal employees get to my knowledge is Inauguration Day, which occurs once every four years and only benefits federal employees that work inside and around the D.C. beltway (of which I was never one) and also has nothing to do with religion. What are these other "holidays" you speak of? Or are you talking about the Congressional recess calendar? Congress kind of works their own whacked schedule anyway.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-26-2007, 06:01 PM
Separation of church and state was one of the founding principles of this country. Check out Thomas Jefferson's Va. Statute on Religious Freedom.

klick81
11-26-2007, 06:24 PM
I worked for the federal government for 13 years, and there were ten holidays a year I received paid days off for. Only one of them had anything to do with religion, and that was Christmas. The other nine?

New Year's Day - not religious.

Martin Luther King Day - not religious.

President's Day - not religious.

Memorial Day - not religious.

Independence Day - not religious.

Labor Day - not religious.

Columbus Day - not religious.

Veteran's Day - not religious.

Thanksgiving Day - not religious.

The one other holiday that federal employees get to my knowledge is Inauguration Day, which occurs once every four years and only benefits federal employees that work inside and around the D.C. beltway (of which I was never one) and also has nothing to do with religion. What are these other "holidays" you speak of? Or are you talking about the Congressional recess calendar? Congress kind of works their own whacked schedule anyway.

Makes even more sense :smile:

Jeremy
11-26-2007, 07:33 PM
:coffee:
I got a great email this morning that put a new perspective of how I think about our Government Having " In God We Trust" and Ten Comandments taken out of Government settings and the American Dollar. The Government is trying to take everything that our country was founded upon away. No More prayers in schools... cant get out and preach on the sidewalks unless you have a permit?... are you kidding me?
This email will be available to anyone that wants it... just send me a private message and give me your email address and I will forward it to ya.
What is it all about? It tells all the days of the year or pretty much most of them, that our government takes off with pay for Holidays that involve God/Jesus. They say that these days are just another day, but boy are they up and willing to take a paid holiday off for'em. I think just like the email says and They Should Have To Work on these Holidays since they dont believe in them anyway. I know that this isnt gonna be everyones' favorite thread to respond to, but everyone of us are paying the folks for them to be off and not support our Christian beliefs. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

I do work

steelcity58
11-27-2007, 06:02 AM
Separation of church and state was one of the founding principles of this country. Check out Thomas Jefferson's Va. Statute on Religious Freedom.

Wrong, that crap started with the first of many Amendments (amendments mean change) to the original Constitution.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-27-2007, 09:23 AM
Wrong, that crap started with the first of many Amendments (amendments mean change) to the original Constitution.
Oh, it that what an amendment is. You are aware that the first ten amendments also known as the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution so that all states would ratify it. That whole Federalists vs. Anti Federalists thing. And your wrong. It was one of the founding principles of this nation. Do some research on mandatory taxes to support The Anglican Church.

TroysBadDawg
11-27-2007, 02:41 PM
Oh Boy, isn't this where I came in before on another debate? The courts have and are constantly redefining the constitution to suit the purpose of those that put them in their position of federal judge. I.e. Roe v. Wade, Prop 187 in California to name only a few. Now the courts have said religion has no place in the government, but this country was founded on religion and religious freedom. (See WACO or Ruby Ridge)

There was nor is anything in the Constitution that states separation of Church and State, that was in a letter written to a person asking if there was going to be a State religion as in England, and the response from the framer and writer of the Constitution was that there will be a separation of church and state meaning that there will be no State religion, meaning Anglican Church. Now the ACLU and the Democrats have pushed the agenda of removing religion from the face of America.
FYI did you know our Founding Fathers had in their budget money to purchase bibles and they were given to each and every immigrant that came to this new land? Yet the courts now say the Ten Commandments are not allowed in court houses. That is what the laws are based on.
Just remember
The Ten Commandments display was removed from the Alabama Supreme Court building. There was a good reason for the move. You can't post Thou Shalt Not Steal, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery, and Thou Shall Not Lie in a building full of lawyers and politicians without creating a hostile work environment.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-27-2007, 04:50 PM
Oh Boy, isn't this where I came in before on another debate? The courts have and are constantly redefining the constitution to suit the purpose of those that put them in their position of federal judge. I.e. Roe v. Wade, Prop 187 in California to name only a few. Now the courts have said religion has no place in the government, but this country was founded on religion and religious freedom. (See WACO or Ruby Ridge)

There was nor is anything in the Constitution that states separation of Church and State, that was in a letter written to a person asking if there was going to be a State religion as in England, and the response from the framer and writer of the Constitution was that there will be a separation of church and state meaning that there will be no State religion, meaning Anglican Church. Now the ACLU and the Democrats have pushed the agenda of removing religion from the face of America.
FYI did you know our Founding Fathers had in their budget money to purchase bibles and they were given to each and every immigrant that came to this new land? Yet the courts now say the Ten Commandments are not allowed in court houses. That is what the laws are based on.
Just remember
The Ten Commandments display was removed from the Alabama Supreme Court building. There was a good reason for the move. You can't post Thou Shalt Not Steal, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery, and Thou Shall Not Lie in a building full of lawyers and politicians without creating a hostile work environment.
Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, And Ben Franklin et. al. believed in the separation of church and state. This is a fact not open to debate. As for the Constitution I suggest you read Article VI Clause 3, Article II Sect I and of course The First Amendment.

Elvis
11-27-2007, 06:14 PM
Good point TroysBadDog...
This country is going down hill fast. The other countries are letting us ( the USA) hang ourselves. We (Bush) is getting the USA in so much debt for this war that he has caused because he ( A Oil Man Himself) wanted the oil that they have. Who will he try to start a fight with next? Russia? They have alot of oil!
Has anyone seen the email being sent around that shows our Marines bowing their heads in prayer over there? Well, now there is people saying that they have No Right to Do that on Company Time!!!! Are you kidding me? Anyone watching the news where our Government is sending our soldiers bills for their doctors bills if they are sent home without finishing their term over there? Its happening folks... go to CNN.com and read... All these Paid holidays for the Government is a Joke!! Where is all the money that is missing that the Government has sent over to Iraq? No One Knows!!
This Is The New USA... no freedom of speech unless your a part of Animals Acts Folks. There is people that get off scott free for killing someone, or do a few years in prison. And now Vick is gonna do time just for killing a dog. You would be better off dumping your child in a trash dump than killing a dog or cat!

Dynasty
11-27-2007, 07:23 PM
I agree that its horrible the way that PETA and all tthose types of groups have made it worse to kill an animal than a person in some ways, but going back to the original point of this topic:

As a Jew, I don't expect that the government should give everyone off for Chanukah. The point you made that "If they dont believe in the holidays, they should work on them" is completely missing the reasons behind the Christmas off-days. Those days are not given off because of the government being christian, It is because the majority of people in the United States are Christians, and follow that holiday. We do not live in a Christian country, we live in a country where most of the citizens (and non-citizens) are Christians. That's what it boils down to.

he has caused because he ( A Oil Man Himself) wanted the oil that they have. Who will he try to start a fight with next? Russia? They have alot of oil!

I am not a bush apologist, but the ones who really are in it for the oil is the United Nations. Theyre the ones who created the oil for food program that is well known for being completely corrupt. If we were just there for oil, we would have left by now, like the democrats believe would solve all the problems in the middle east.

GBMelBlount
11-27-2007, 07:56 PM
Elvis, if Bush went into the Middle East for oil, why is gas over $3 a gallon? The reason gas is so high is because we have not been allowed to increase the drilling of or the refining of our own massive reserves for 30 years, even though our need for energy has dramatically increased over that time. IMO, Bush went to war because 3,000 civilians were murdered on U.S. soil by muslim extremists who are hell bent on our total destruction. Despite the pressure on Bush by the media, his political opponents & those easily persuaded by the medias bias reporting, Bush has stayed the course. It appears the tide is changing in the Middle East, in our favor in fact, though you will not hear much about it.

Godfather
11-27-2007, 07:56 PM
I worked for the federal government for 13 years, and there were ten holidays a year I received paid days off for. Only one of them had anything to do with religion, and that was Christmas. The other nine?

New Year's Day - not religious.

Martin Luther King Day - not religious.

President's Day - not religious.

Memorial Day - not religious.

Independence Day - not religious.

Labor Day - not religious.

Columbus Day - not religious.

Veteran's Day - not religious.

Thanksgiving Day - not religious.

The one other holiday that federal employees get to my knowledge is Inauguration Day, which occurs once every four years and only benefits federal employees that work inside and around the D.C. beltway (of which I was never one) and also has nothing to do with religion. What are these other "holidays" you speak of? Or are you talking about the Congressional recess calendar? Congress kind of works their own whacked schedule anyway.

Not exactly a fair statement. The major religious holidays for Christians are Christmas and Easter. one of those is always on Sunday. So in reality, you get the major religious holidays off. And to whom are we giving thanks on Thanksgiving?

Three of those holidays (Memorial, Independence, Veterans) are patriotic in nature. So what if they're secular? They're also the most important to what it means to be an American.

Columbus Day is the one I'd consider the biggest waste of time. Not even the most deserving explorer.

fansince'76
11-27-2007, 08:12 PM
Not exactly a fair statement. The major religious holidays for Christians are Christmas and Easter. one of those is always on Sunday. So in reality, you get the major religious holidays off. And to whom are we giving thanks on Thanksgiving?

Three of those holidays (Memorial, Independence, Veterans) are patriotic in nature. So what if they're secular? They're also the most important to what it means to be an American.

Columbus Day is the one I'd consider the biggest waste of time. Not even the most deserving explorer.

I wasn't referring to Christian holidays - I was referring to holidays the OP mentioned as relating to God/Jesus that federal employees get off with pay that most folks in the private sector wind up working on. My point stands on 8 of the holidays I mentioned. I'll give you Thanksgiving, but Thanksgiving at its essence is an antiquated notion - it was originally observed primarily as giving thanks to the Almighty for a bountiful harvest season when America was still overwhelmingly an agrarian society, and this country hasn't fit that description for well over a century. Further, most folks get Thanksgiving and Christmas off, regardless of whether they work in the public or private sector. I don't know of too many folks who work in the private sector that get MLK Day, Veteran's Day or Columbus Day off, for example, and those 3 holidays have absolutely nothing to do with religion.

MasterOfPuppets
11-27-2007, 08:59 PM
And to whom are we giving thanks on Thanksgiving?

certainly not the NFL !!! who gives a crap about detroit ? :dang:

Preacher
11-28-2007, 02:30 PM
Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, And Ben Franklin et. al. believed in the separation of church and state. This is a fact not open to debate. As for the Constitution I suggest you read Article VI Clause 3, Article II Sect I and of course The First Amendment.

However, Seperation of church and state as referred to by Jefferson, Madison and the others is NOT the same understanding as Sep. of church and state today. In that time, the issue was not keeping the church out of the state, it was keeping the state out of the church. The idea of no official religion was not written as an attack on churches, but rather as a PROTECTION for churches, that a state couldn't persecute believers of a christian denomination because they were not of another denomination (at that time, the only influences necessary to this discussion was Christianity and Deism. Atheism was not considered by the founding fathers, as evident in the declaration of independence.).

The real danger to our society is the removal of the diety from our schools, courts, and government. The founding fathers claimed that our rights as citizens came not from an esoteric understanding of humanity's prominence, our rights were endowed by a creator, and are therefore imminent in existence. The result of this foundation is a government which was to have no authority to remove the primeval rights of a citizen.

That is now changing. By removing references to a deity and the understanding that there is one creator then humanity. Our court system and government has quietly removed the very foundation which the rights of American citizen is founded. In short, our freedom is threatened because our nation now officially refuses to recognize the source which our nation claimed our freedom came from.

To back up my point, I take you to John Leland and the Virginia Baptists in the late 1700's. Their fear was not that the constitution removed religion, but that it didn't not do enough to secure any religion from being oppressed. George Washington replied to this fear, "If I could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the Constitution framed in the convention, where I had the honor to preside, might possibly endanger the religious rights of any ecclesiastical society, certainly I would never have placed my signature to it." (Joseph M. Dawson, Baptists and the American Republic page 117).

The VIrgina baptists and John Leland were not satisfied, and wanted the rights spelled out. They threatened to kill the ratification of the constitution. The result of which was a compromise, known as the Bill of Rights. (H. Leon MacBeth, The Baptist Heritage: Four Centuries of Baptist Witness. Page 281. )

In the end, the idea was not to remove a deity from society, which is what is being done today, it was to give each INDIVIDUAL the right to accept their idea of a deity, or reject.

"A wall of seperation between church and state" in its original context by Jefferson, is better spoken of today as saying, "Neutrality by the state in regards to established religion." It has no affect on a general understanding of a creator.

Our country is in serious problems.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-28-2007, 02:41 PM
So then why don't we make Christianity the official religion of this country and subject all people of other religions, and beliefs to our prayers in PUBLIC schools and in all government offices, only hire Christians to work in government jobs, and make it so that you must be a Christian to run for PUBLIC office etc.... A Christian theocracy. That sounds like freedom Right????????

Preacher
11-28-2007, 02:51 PM
So then why don't we make Christianity the official religion of this country and subject all people of other religions, and beliefs to our prayers in PUBLIC schools and in all government offices, only hire Christians to work in government jobs, and make it so that you must be a Christian to run for PUBLIC office etc.... A Christian theocracy. That sounds like freedom Right????????

Sadly, you completely missed the main point of my post.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-28-2007, 03:10 PM
Sadly, you completely missed the main point of my post.Okay I reread it. I see what your saying, and the point your trying to make. I just don't see a need for a reference to any God in our government ,or our public schools, or anything that is funded by the Federal government. If people want to say a prayer, or swear on a bible before court proceedings, or taking the oath of office( and it's debatable whether or not Washington himself actually did that) that should be their CHOICE. I personally am not an atheist, I just feel that people should have that choice. Take the Pledge for instance. It didn't always say under God. That was put in during the early 50's.

Preacher
11-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Okay I reread it. I see what your saying, and the point your trying to make. I just don't see a need for a reference to any God in our government ,or our public schools, or anything that is funded by the Federal government. If people want to say a prayer, or swear on a bible before court proceedings, or taking the oath of office( and it's debatable whether or not Washington himself actually did that) that should be their CHOICE. I personally am not an atheist, I just feel that people should have that choice. Take the Pledge for instance. It didn't always say under God. That was put in during the early 50's.

The need for the references comes from the fact that if you remove the reference, you remove the giver of rights. What is left, is a government that believes THEY give and take away rights.

When a government that believes the rights of the people are derived from a creator refuse to recognize the creator, the next logical step is to refuse to recognize the rights from the creator.

I in no way want an institutional religion, but when a bunch of American Citizens get together to help out battered women, it shouldn't matter whether they are doing it out of a club or a church, it is American citizens who are doing it. Funding the church over the club, or the club over the church comes dangerously close to violating no religious test clause, because it is saying if you want to be associating at arms length with this government, your organization can not be associated with faith. That was NEVER the intention of the first amendment. Matter of fact, it was what the first amendment was intended to protect against... a litmus test... ANY litmus test of faith.

Atlanta Dan
11-28-2007, 04:59 PM
:coffee:
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

Very little that I can state that would not result in a message to me by the mods.

revefsreleets
11-28-2007, 07:11 PM
Hey Preach, whatever happened to OUR "God Thread"?

Preacher
11-28-2007, 08:38 PM
Very little that I can state that would not result in a message to me by the mods.

PM me with your thoughts then. Even though we often disagree, your thoughts are insightful and articulated well. I would like to know what you think.

revefsreleets
11-28-2007, 09:25 PM
PM me with your thoughts then. Even though we often disagree, your thoughts are insightful and articulated well. I would like to know what you think.
Nah, no need. I'm not a real atheist. I was just curious as to why the thread died. It WAS intellectually stimulating, though. Arguing from the opposing viewpoint is absolutely the best way to understand and empathize with your opponent, and the less structured the format (i.e. internet message board) the better!

I do have part 3 if you want to read it sometime. I think I even have the latticework of what was going to be part 4 lying around here somewhere.

GBMelBlount
11-28-2007, 09:33 PM
LOL! I am waiting for Master of Puppets to cue up the popcorn & beer smilies!

tony hipchest
11-28-2007, 10:48 PM
mmmm. beer :yummy:

IMO, Bush went to war because 3,000 civilians were murdered on U.S. soil by muslim extremists who are hell bent on our total destruction. Despite the pressure on Bush by the media, his political opponents & those easily persuaded by the medias bias reporting, Bush has stayed the course. It appears the tide is changing in the Middle East, in our favor in fact, though you will not hear much about it.19 or so people, funded by a millionaire took pilot classes, and crashed 4 jets to kill those 3000... an idea the "trenchcoat mafia" kids had envisioned as the climax of the columbine massacre. theres dave koresh who begat tim mcveigh, and many microcosms of terrorism on our own soil, by our own people, every day.

know who scares me more than muslim extremist terrorists? bush's foreign buddies in the muslim nations. selling our money to the muslims who do nothing to prevent the exremists who are helbent on our total destruction is very scary.

"In God We Trust" on our currency? what God does that mean anymore? does it represent the Christian Jesus? or does it represent the almighty dollar our capitalistic society has come to worship?

anyways, if we keep selling it to the middle easterners it might as well say "In Allah We Trust".

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/International__Business/Citi_to_sell_up_to_49_to_Abu_Dhabi_for_75_bn/articleshow/2576845.cms

NEW YORK/ DUBAI: Citigroup is selling up to 4.9% of itself for $7.5 billion to the Gulf Arab Emirate of Abu Dhabi, giving the largest US bank fresh capital as it wrestles with the subprime mortgage crisis and the resignation of its chief executive.

The capital injection will shore up Citi’s balance sheet, which has been hurt by some $6.8 billion of writedowns and losses in Q3, and the potential for another $11 billion in the fourth quarter.

Citi is paying a high price for the capital injection by selling mandatory convertible securities to Abu Dhabi, which pay a fixed coupon of 11%. That is above the average yield on the US junk bonds, which is 9.4%, according to Merrill Lynch data. Analysts at Royal Bank of Scotland said in a note that Citigroup was paying a “high price”, but that the convertible notes would help boost the bank’s core capital.

The sale to the $650-billion Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, may also signal the freefall in the US financial stocks is close to ending, analysts said. “Citi is big, it’s widely followed, and when people see confidence in it, it should mean something,” said Bo Brownstein, an analyst covering financial stocks at Cambiar Investors in Denver, Colorado. The dollar rose against the yen on the news, and



Family-ruled Abu Dhabi will be Citi’s largest shareholder. The investment reflects the increasing financial might of oil-producing countries, which have benefited from a five-fold increase in the price of crude oil during the past six years. Gulf investors have announced more than $70 billion of foreign acquisitions this year, more than in the previous two years combined. Dubai International Capital, a private equity firm owned by the ruler of Dubai, said on Monday it made a “substantial investment” in Sony, while a separate Abu Dhabi entity earlier this month bought a $622 million stake in the US-based chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices.


Gulf investors such as the state-owned Investment Corporation of Dubai have expressed interest in taking advantage of plummeting US financial stock prices to buy. :scratchchin: i wonder why?

are the muslim nations gonna sit back and collect interest on the debt we incur with a trillion dollar war as we continue to buy their oil?

talk about putting a fire out with gasoline...

Preacher
11-28-2007, 11:41 PM
Nah, no need. I'm not a real atheist. I was just curious as to why the thread died. It WAS intellectually stimulating, though. Arguing from the opposing viewpoint is absolutely the best way to understand and empathize with your opponent, and the less structured the format (i.e. internet message board) the better!

I do have part 3 if you want to read it sometime. I think I even have the latticework of what was going to be part 4 lying around here somewhere.

:sofunny::sofunny:

Actually, I was posting to AD.

When the season is over, the thread will be revived, least that is my plan.

Elvis
11-29-2007, 03:46 AM
Elvis, if Bush went into the Middle East for oil, why is gas over $3 a gallon? The reason gas is so high is because we have not been allowed to increase the drilling of or the refining of our own massive reserves for 30 years, even though our need for energy has dramatically increased over that time. IMO, Bush went to war because 3,000 civilians were murdered on U.S. soil by muslim extremists who are hell bent on our total destruction. Despite the pressure on Bush by the media, his political opponents & those easily persuaded by the medias bias reporting, Bush has stayed the course. It appears the tide is changing in the Middle East, in our favor in fact, though you will not hear much about it.
First of all GB... We have more gas right now in our reserve than Ever. George Bush will be looked at in 100 years from now in our children's and grandchildrens' History Class describing how he Was The Worst President of All-time. The man knows the more oil the US has the more $$$$$$$ he will have when he is replaced. I have alot of sympathy for those 3,000 folks and their families. But for us to go and start a war just because somebody thinks that they have nuclear weapons and 4 years later has Still Not Found Any Evidence. Can someone explain to me where the billions of dollars are that our country cant find over there? The Middle East will Never be contained completely... NEVER

Preacher
11-29-2007, 01:41 PM
mmmm. beer :yummy:

19 or so people, funded by a millionaire took pilot classes, and crashed 4 jets to kill those 3000... an idea the "trenchcoat mafia" kids had envisioned as the climax of the columbine massacre. theres dave koresh who begat tim mcveigh, and many microcosms of terrorism on our own soil, by our own people, every day.

know who scares me more than muslim extremist terrorists? bush's foreign buddies in the muslim nations. selling our money to the muslims who do nothing to prevent the exremists who are helbent on our total destruction is very scary.
.

Interesting that you put McVeigh and other microcosms of terrorism on our own sail as a comparison to muslim terrorism. Actually, they are linked.

There is a well documented link starting with WWI between arab extremism and Nazi/Fascist views. That link continues into todays society in America. A number of our extremist leaders of that genre are in league, to one point or another with Muslim extremism.

Their common tie? A hatred of Jews and an American govt. that supports Israel.

If your interested in the iink (I have provided it before), I will have to do a search for it, but can find it. It is out of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Dynasty
11-29-2007, 05:39 PM
First of all GB... We have more gas right now in our reserve than Ever. George Bush will be looked at in 100 years from now in our children's and grandchildren's History Class describing how he Was The Worst President of All-time. The man knows the more oil the US has the more $$$$$$$ he will have when he is replaced. I have a lot of sympathy for those 3,000 folks and their families. But for us to go and start a war just because somebody thinks that they have nuclear weapons and 4 years later has Still Not Found Any Evidence. Can someone explain to me where the billions of dollars are that our country cant find over there? The Middle East will Never be contained completely... NEVER

Although your views are your own, and are opinion, I see a few small shreds of fact in there combined with a lot of nonsense.

We do not have more gas/oil (I'm not sure what you meant) than ever. Oil prices have been going up steadily, which I believe is caused by artificial price-raising by the OPEC nations. We still have reserves left in the US, but much of it is unusable, buried in Alaska somewhere. Thw world is not as short on oil as the media and Al Gore would like us to believe, its just being burned up by Middle Eastern extremists, or held back by OPEC.

There is evidence that the WMDs were moved to Syria. Faulty intelligence or not, the war was authorized by Congress, as well as the UN. The Coalition was in force for the initial attack because of the realization that the countries had that there were problems in Iraq. The US is just the only country that realized that if we left the country in the shithole state that it was in, it would cause more and more problems for us later. The "rush" that the army has in effect now is working, and we hear reports of the military success every day.

Your point that "The man knows the more oil the US has the more $$$$$$$ he will have when he is replaced." makes no sense. George bush does not own the oil. Im not sure what this is supposed to mean at all.

I also dont know when the e was a claim of billions of dollars are that our country cant find over there. unless you have the deluded view that we are only there for oil, and thats where the money will come from, there was never any supposition of great financial gain from the war.

While I agree that Bush is not a great president, he is by no means the worst one ever. Although he may not have made the absolute best decisions for our country, I believe that he has done a hell of a lot better than John "flip-flop" Kerry ever would have. I hope the country realizes this and doesnt elect someone like Hillary.

I'm not trying to smack you or anything, but I dont agree with you on a lot of things, this previous post included.

GBMelBlount
11-29-2007, 09:23 PM
Quoted by Elvis:

First of all GB... We have more gas right now in our reserve than Ever.

United States proven oil reserves declined to a little more than 21 gigabarrels by the end of 2004 according to the Energy Information Administration, a 46% decline from the 39 gigabarrels it had in 1970 when the huge Alaska North Slope ('ANS') reserves were booked.

George Bush will be looked at in 100 years from now in our children's and grandchildrens' History Class describing how he Was The Worst President of All-time.

Let's look at Carter:

During his four years in the White House, he presided over the worst economic downturn since World War II, allowed a bunch of thugs to seize our embassy and our citizens, and supported Philippine dictator Fernando Marcos, Pakistani General Zia al Huq, Saudi King Faud and many other dictators. Interest rates & inflation were double digits and gas lines were hours long.

Please don't forget the day he left office, and Reagan took over, the hostages held during Carter's administration were freed within 24 hours.

I think Bush has some serious competition for the award of worst president ever.

The man knows the more oil the US has the more $$$$$$$ he will have when he is replaced.

Please Explain?

But for us to go and start a war just because somebody thinks that they have nuclear weapons and 4 years later has Still Not Found Any Evidence.

Most of the liberals voted for the war based on the same evidence from several other foreign intelligence agencies. Hillary said on many occoasions that he was aggressively pursuing WMD and needed to be stopped. I can forward you audio quotes of Hillary agressively supporting the IRAQ war based on her own intelligence sources. Now their stories have changed.

he Middle East will Never be contained completely

Considering the options, I personally would prefer we stay the course.

Dynasty
11-30-2007, 03:05 PM
Exactly right. Especially the carter stuff and the oil statistic.. Sorry Elvis but your out-facted on this one.

Cape Cod Steel Head
11-30-2007, 05:10 PM
Quoted by Elvis:



United States proven oil reserves declined to a little more than 21 gigabarrels by the end of 2004 according to the Energy Information Administration, a 46% decline from the 39 gigabarrels it had in 1970 when the huge Alaska North Slope ('ANS') reserves were booked.



Let's look at Carter:

During his four years in the White House, he presided over the worst economic downturn since World War II, allowed a bunch of thugs to seize our embassy and our citizens, and supported Philippine dictator Fernando Marcos, Pakistani General Zia al Huq, Saudi King Faud and many other dictators. Interest rates & inflation were double digits and gas lines were hours long.

Please don't forget the day he left office, and Reagan took over, the hostages held during Carter's administration were freed within 24 hours.

I think Bush has some serious competition for the award of worst president ever.



Please Explain?



Most of the liberals voted for the war based on the same evidence from several other foreign intelligence agencies. Hillary said on many occoasions that he was aggressively pursuing WMD and needed to be stopped. I can forward you audio quotes of Hillary agressively supporting the IRAQ war based on her own intelligence sources. Now their stories have changed.



Considering the options, I personally would prefer we stay the course.
Do you remember just why exactly those hostages were freed. Iran Contra ring a bell???

Elvis
11-30-2007, 07:47 PM
Want To See George W. Bush's Life Resume?
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/04/23_resume.html

Go Here and Check Out The Man You Are Taking
Up For... I know that everyone has different oppinions about Bush... And I hope that I dont make any enemies over this... but this man is terrible and he is just in it for the money for the Rich People. How can anyone take money from our children and elderly and give it to the poor?
:jawdrop:

Elvis
11-30-2007, 08:00 PM
Here is our Oil Supply Numbers for you also...
these numbers are as of
August 24, 2007
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#searchInput)
This article refers to the United States Strategic Petroleum Reserve. For other countries see global strategic petroleum reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_strategic_petroleum_reserves) The Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) is an emergency petroleum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum) store maintained by the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) Department of Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Energy). The US SPR is the largest emergency supply in the world with the current capacity to hold up to 727 million barrels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_%28unit%29) (116 million m? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_metre)) of crude oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crude_oil). The second largest emergency supply of petroleum is Japan's with a 2003 reported capacity of 579 million barrels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_strategic_petroleum_reserves#Japan).
The current inventory is displayed on the SPR's website (http://www.spr.doe.gov/dir/dir.html). As of August 24, 2007, the current inventory was 690 million barrels. At current market prices ($95 a barrel) the SPR holds approximately $65.5 billion worth of petroleum.
The United States started the petroleum reserve in 1975 after oil supplies were cut off during the 1973-74 oil embargo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis), to mitigate future temporary supply disruptions. According to the World Factbook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Factbook)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#_note-0), the United States imports a net 12 million barrels of oil a day (MMbd), so the SPR holds about a 57-day supply. However, the maximum total withdrawal capability from the SPR is only 4.4 MMbd.
Contents

[hide (javascript:toggleToc())]
<LI class=toclevel-1>1 Facilities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Facilities) <LI class=toclevel-1>2 History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#History) <LI class=toclevel-2>2.1 Background (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Background) <LI class=toclevel-2>2.2 Filling the SPR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Filling_the_SPR)
2.3 Emergency sales and loans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Emergency_sales_and_lo ans)
2.3.1 Emergency sales to Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Emergency_sales_to_Isr ael)<LI class=toclevel-1>3 Limitations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Limitations) <LI class=toclevel-1>4 SPR drawdowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#SPR_drawdowns) <LI class=toclevel-2>4.1 Petroleum sales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Petroleum_sales)
4.2 Petroleum exchanges and loans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Petroleum_exchanges_an d_loans)<LI class=toclevel-1>5 See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#See_also) <LI class=toclevel-1>6 References (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#References)
7 External links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#External_links)//

GBMelBlount
11-30-2007, 08:25 PM
Want To See George W. Bush's Life Resume?
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/04/23_resume.html

Go Here and Check Out The Man You Are Taking
Up For... I know that everyone has different oppinions about Bush... And I hope that I dont make any enemies over this... but this man is terrible and he is just in it for the money for the Rich People. How can anyone take money from our children and elderly and give it to the poor?
:jawdrop:


Are you quoting someone blogging out of their basement in 2003?

How can anyone take money from our children and elderly and give it to the poor?

Are the children & elderly you are referring to those who don't earn any income? If so, how is he taking their unearned income and giving it to the poor?

Also, one blurb blamed 9/11 on Bush. Don't go there.

revefsreleets
11-30-2007, 08:26 PM
Hey, I don't know "Elvis", does it even matter to you? Aren't you going to be raptured up into Heaven soon, leaving all the rest of us filthy heathens to fend for ourselves?

GBMelBlount
11-30-2007, 08:29 PM
Here is our Oil Supply Numbers for you also...
these numbers are as of
August 24, 2007
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#searchInput)
This article refers to the United States Strategic Petroleum Reserve. For other countries see global strategic petroleum reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_strategic_petroleum_reserves) The Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) is an emergency petroleum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum) store maintained by the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) Department of Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Energy). The US SPR is the largest emergency supply in the world with the current capacity to hold up to 727 million barrels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_%28unit%29) (116 million m? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_metre)) of crude oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crude_oil). The second largest emergency supply of petroleum is Japan's with a 2003 reported capacity of 579 million barrels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_strategic_petroleum_reserves#Japan).
The current inventory is displayed on the SPR's website (http://www.spr.doe.gov/dir/dir.html). As of August 24, 2007, the current inventory was 690 million barrels. At current market prices ($95 a barrel) the SPR holds approximately $65.5 billion worth of petroleum.
The United States started the petroleum reserve in 1975 after oil supplies were cut off during the 1973-74 oil embargo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis), to mitigate future temporary supply disruptions. According to the World Factbook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Factbook)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#_note-0), the United States imports a net 12 million barrels of oil a day (MMbd), so the SPR holds about a 57-day supply. However, the maximum total withdrawal capability from the SPR is only 4.4 MMbd.
Contents

[hide (javascript:toggleToc())]
<LI class=toclevel-1>1 Facilities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Facilities) <LI class=toclevel-1>2 History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#History) <LI class=toclevel-2>2.1 Background (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Background) <LI class=toclevel-2>2.2 Filling the SPR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Filling_the_SPR)
2.3 Emergency sales and loans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Emergency_sales_and_lo ans)
2.3.1 Emergency sales to Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Emergency_sales_to_Isr ael)<LI class=toclevel-1>3 Limitations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Limitations) <LI class=toclevel-1>4 SPR drawdowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#SPR_drawdowns) <LI class=toclevel-2>4.1 Petroleum sales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Petroleum_sales)
4.2 Petroleum exchanges and loans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Petroleum_exchanges_an d_loans)<LI class=toclevel-1>5 See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#See_also) <LI class=toclevel-1>6 References (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#References)
7 External links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#External_links)//

You are referring to the EMERGENCY petroleum reserves. I am not sure how this relates to what you're accusing Bush of right now?

Dynasty
11-30-2007, 09:52 PM
THose arent to used because soccer moms in there gas guzzling SUVs are pissed because of high gas prices, theyre to prevent the total shut down of US gas in case of another embargo. And reve... i know what you mean.

Elvis
11-30-2007, 10:51 PM
Hey, I don't know "Elvis", does it even matter to you? Aren't you going to be raptured up into Heaven soon, leaving all the rest of us filthy heathens to fend for ourselves?
Rev... I am gonna try to keep this in the nicest ways I can. You believe what you want to believe and I will do the same ok? Yeah.. it matters to me... there are gonna be loved ones here . This thread is Not About our Religeous Differences. God gives us all the the choices in life, whether we believe in him or not is our choice. Obviously you dont believe in that and I wish you luck with your choice.

Elvis
11-30-2007, 10:56 PM
Oh, now your changing this to EMERGENCY petroleum reserves. What does the EMERGENCY petroleum reserves set aside for EMERGENCIES have to do with right now and what you are accusing Bush of right now? BTW, you want emergency reserves to be high!
What do the Emergency Reserves have to do with today or right now?... are you kidding me? If you do some research about the Oil industry you will figure it out that most scientist and researchers are saying that we will be seeing a major oil crisis or shortage in the next 10 ot 15 years... does that not concern you now?... If not, it should!

GBMelBlount
11-30-2007, 11:01 PM
What do the Emergency Reserves have to do with today or right now?... are you kidding me? If you do some research about the Oil industry you will figure it out that most scientist and researchers are saying that we will be seeing a major oil crisis or shortage in the next 10 ot 15 years... does that not concern you now?... If not, it should!


The emergency reserves are tapped into if and only if there is an emergency right now. Which there isn't. It has nothing to do with what you are accusing Bush of.

GBMelBlount
11-30-2007, 11:04 PM
What do the Emergency Reserves have to do with today or right now?... are you kidding me? If you do some research about the Oil industry you will figure it out that most scientist and researchers are saying that we will be seeing a major oil crisis or shortage in the next 10 ot 15 years... does that not concern you now?... If not, it should!


The emergency reserves are tapped into if and only if there is an emergency right now. Which there isn't. It has nothing to do with what you are accusing Bush of. We will only have problems in the 10-15 year time frame if your friends continue to keep all new drilling & new refineries off limits.

Dynasty
11-30-2007, 11:33 PM
exactly, a theoretical crisis in 15 years is not a present emergency. for all we know, there could be some completely new source of oil that we havent discovered. theres a lot of ways to get oil other than from f**kin saudis. in popular science this month thare was an article about a guy who made a machine that uses microwaves to extract petroleum from almost everything. even rocks.

Elvis
12-01-2007, 11:17 AM
Are you quoting someone blogging out of their basement in 2003?



Are the children & elderly you are referring to those who don't earn any income? If so, how is he taking their unearned income and giving it to the poor?

Also, one blurb blamed 9/11 on Bush. Don't go there.
All I can gather from this is that you dont pay attention to our government and what YOUR friend/Bush is doing to get our country in the largest deficit EVER... I wish someone would take Bush over to Iraq and just drop him off and let our troops video him being taken out back behind the woodshed... He is a War Dodging Scoundrel that ran when he was supposed to be fighting for his country. If you dont serve your country then you shouldnt be considered to be our next president.
:jawdrop:

Elvis
12-01-2007, 11:20 AM
exactly, a theoretical crisis in 15 years is not a present emergency. for all we know, there could be some completely new source of oil that we havent discovered. theres a lot of ways to get oil other than from f**kin saudis. in popular science this month thare was an article about a guy who made a machine that uses microwaves to extract petroleum from almost everything. even rocks.
I just hope that everyone gets ready in the next 15 years, dont you? This Country is headed for a Great Depression that is gonna make the last one a short small one.. Better start hiding your rocks...:toofunny:

Elvis
12-01-2007, 11:21 AM
Someone Please
End This
Thread...
:wave:

fansince'76
12-01-2007, 02:06 PM
If you dont serve your country then you shouldnt be considered to be our next president.
:jawdrop:

No fan of Bush, but did you hold this view during Clinton's 8 years in the White House?

GBMelBlount
12-01-2007, 02:06 PM
I wish someone would take Bush over to Iraq and just drop him off and let our troops video him being taken out back behind the woodshed...
:jawdrop:

Spoken like a true Christian.

GBMelBlount
12-01-2007, 02:13 PM
All I can gather from this is that you dont pay attention to our government and what YOUR friend/Bush is doing to get our country in the largest deficit EVER...
:jawdrop:

I am very concerned about the record deficits. Government spending & waste is out of control in my opinion.

revefsreleets
12-01-2007, 03:26 PM
Rev... I am gonna try to keep this in the nicest ways I can. You believe what you want to believe and I will do the same ok? Yeah.. it matters to me... there are gonna be loved ones here . This thread is Not About our Religeous Differences. God gives us all the the choices in life, whether we believe in him or not is our choice. Obviously you dont believe in that and I wish you luck with your choice.


You do realize, don't you, that Bush also believes in the rapture, and he expects himself to be one of those that are beamed up or whatever, right? It's ironic and interesting that you dislike him so much when he shares your exact religious views.

Preacher
12-01-2007, 05:55 PM
You do realize, don't you, that Bush also believes in the rapture, and he expects himself to be one of those that are beamed up or whatever, right? It's ironic and interesting that you dislike him so much when he shares your exact religious views.

Funny how one who is not a believer speaks the truth about belief to one who is.

That is why, for the most part, Christians should STAY OUT OF POLITICS AT A PERSONAL LEVEL.

There are those who will run, that is fine. BUt for those of you who are Christians on this thread, do you all realize that that people see no difference between us and them, even though we claim to have an eternal perspective based on our belief in Jesus Christ?

Sure, I have political thoughts... I have even posted them at times. But there comes a point where that discussion must end for the Christian. If your a fellow Christian on this board... it would behoove you to remember that the greater responsibility is not to your particular party or country, but to Jesus Christ.

Polamalu Princess
12-01-2007, 06:10 PM
Funny how one who is not a believer speaks the truth about belief to one who is.

That is why, for the most part, Christians should STAY OUT OF POLITICS AT A PERSONAL LEVEL.

There are those who will run, that is fine. BUt for those of you who are Christians on this thread, do you all realize that that people see no difference between us and them, even though we claim to have an eternal perspective based on our belief in Jesus Christ?

Sure, I have political thoughts... I have even posted them at times. But there comes a point where that discussion must end for the Christian. If your a fellow Christian on this board... it would behoove you to remember that the greater responsibility is not to your particular party or country, but to Jesus Christ.

Very well said.

Dynasty
12-01-2007, 06:22 PM
I am very concerned about the record deficits. Government spending & waste is out of control in my opinion.

But although he is "the worst president ever", Bush has tried to cut down on spending, like in his recent veto of some bill with a huge amount of pork in it. I admit that the war spending is too high, but the surge is working, and even the war's biggest critics are admitting it, so that will hopefully mean an end to the war, and therefore the high spending.

revefsreleets
12-01-2007, 06:24 PM
Hey, it's deeper and darker than that. How messed up and elitist is Christianity? Only people who fit into Elvis' teeny tiny little belief pattern get to go to heaven, and the 99.9999% of the rest of us are doomed to eternal hellfire and brimstone? My guess is that you aren't included, either, Preach. You've supported Bush before, and that dooms you to Hell, apparently.

Elvis
12-02-2007, 03:32 AM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_15_54.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxmk788YYUS) No fan of Bush, but did you hold this view during Clinton's 8 years in the White House?
Yes Sir I Did





http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb113&pp=ZNxmk788YYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb113_ZNxmk788YYUS&utm_id=7921)

Elvis
12-02-2007, 03:35 AM
Hey, it's deeper and darker than that. How messed up and elitist is Christianity? Only people who fit into Elvis' teeny tiny little belief pattern get to go to heaven, and the 99.9999% of the rest of us are doomed to eternal hellfire and brimstone? My guess is that you aren't included, either, Preach. You've supported Bush before, and that dooms you to Hell, apparently.

Rev... your a jokester arent you?....:smile:
Game Over....

revefsreleets
12-03-2007, 08:33 AM
Tell the truth, now. You believe Bush is part of the illuminati and that he's Satanic.

Elvis
12-05-2007, 08:19 PM
:blah::blah::blah:
I as a true Christian would be absolutely scared to death to go to church and act like I was such a great christian as Bush does and then turn right around and Lie... Steal and start wars like he has!!! Anyone ever heard of the 3 Great Wars?

GBMelBlount
12-05-2007, 08:41 PM
:blah::blah::blah:
I as a true Christian

Your EXTREME hatred for Bush just doesn't seem rational to me.

Polamalu Princess
12-05-2007, 08:44 PM
:blah::blah::blah:
I as a true Christian would be absolutely scared to death to go to church and act like I was such a great christian as Bush does and then turn right around and Lie... Steal and start wars like he has!!! Anyone ever heard of the 3 Great Wars?

I try so hard to be a "True Christian," but I fail every single day tenfold. I will pray for you, those on this board, all men and women and yes, President George Bush too.

May God bless you and keep you in His loving care. I am a sinner and no better than any single person on earth.

revefsreleets
12-06-2007, 10:37 AM
"As a true Christian"...

...and then come the proclamations and judgements. Eeeshk.

Thank you Polamalu Princess for your much more moderate and reasonable position.

Counselor
12-07-2007, 12:27 PM
Oh, it that what an amendment is. You are aware that the first ten amendments also known as the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution so that all states would ratify it. That whole Federalists vs. Anti Federalists thing. And your wrong. It was one of the founding principles of this nation. Do some research on mandatory taxes to support The Anglican Church.

The first amendment does not say there is a "wall" or "seperation" between church and state . . .it says there will not be an "established" religion of the country. Those are two totally different concepts The amendment also gaurantees people's right to practice what ever religion they want. In recent history the concept of "seperation" (which is not in the amendment) has stepped on the toes of freedom to practice (which is part of the amendment). . .but that's just MHO.

Elvis
12-16-2007, 08:37 AM
I try so hard to be a "True Christian," but I fail every single day tenfold. I will pray for you, those on this board, all men and women and yes, President George Bush too.

May God bless you and keep you in His loving care. I am a sinner and no better than any single person on earth.
:coffee: Thanks for all the prayers from ya. There is NO Perfect Person In This World Today, including myself especially. I fail as much or more than anyone else, I pray for Bush that God will touch his heart and break it for sending our men and women over there to fight over oil. Someone will have to take responsibility for all the deaths over nothing though!!
Sinner Saved By Grace

GBMelBlount
12-16-2007, 01:59 PM
I pray for Bush that God will touch his heart and break it for sending our men and women over there to fight over oil. Someone will have to take responsibility for all the deaths over nothing though!!

1. Please explain what you mean by "break" Bush's heart. That is not the terminology a Christian normally uses to my knowledge and I wouldn't normally question it, but based on your anger and hatred towards Bush I am concerned when YOU use the term "break."

2. You keep harping on this Bush /oil thing, please explain.