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lamberts-lost-tooth
12-04-2007, 01:32 PM
Okay Steeler Nation....I got a question.

I have been looking for the answer all day and can't find it anywhere.

Last night, in a bone headed move...one of the Ravens assistant coaches called time out and nullified a stop on 4th & 1.
My question: I had thought that only the Head Coach and players on the field were allowed to call time out. Maybe I'm wrong, but if not...the Official screwed up by allowing the time out and thereby was at blame for the Ravens loss.

If any one knows beyond a doubt, or can find it...please post it here,,,Thanks!!

kmsteelerwr15
12-04-2007, 02:10 PM
ya thats what the rules states but they said something about the ref probablly couldnt tell the difference in voices or something like that on ESPN

Counselor
12-04-2007, 02:15 PM
ya thats what the rules states but they said something about the ref probablly couldnt tell the difference in voices or something like that on ESPN

Wow! if that is true, then the Ravens have a legitimate gripe.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Wow! if that is true, then the Ravens have a legitimate gripe.

Oh Yea!! You bet they have a legit gripe....that and the last TD was an almost exact replay of T.O. touchdown that was ruled as no posession. ANYONE that didnt see that ball bouncing around while he was out of bounds, is blind.

Hines0wnz
12-04-2007, 03:03 PM
Oh Yea!! You bet they have a legit gripe....that and the last TD was an almost exact replay of T.O. touchdown that was ruled as no posession. ANYONE that didnt see that ball bouncing around while he was out of bounds, is blind.

It wasnt that obvious but the ball was still moving as he stepped out.

stlrtruck
12-04-2007, 03:09 PM
As far as I know, any member of the coaching staff can call a timeout.

SteelCityMan786
12-04-2007, 03:24 PM
Wow! if that is true, then the Ravens have a legitimate gripe.

Not to mention they can have the game thrown out and started over.

The Patriot
12-04-2007, 05:28 PM
What are you talking about. You can't yell; "Time out!" and wave your hands in the officials face and expect him not to call the time out. That's not his fault. If you could do that then I'd have a guy yell that every snap to distract him. If the defensive coach isn't allowed to call a timeout then he is the one who broke the rule. The official has a game to oversee and doesn't have time to identify which Raven is illegally trying to call a timeout.

The Patriot
12-04-2007, 05:29 PM
It wasnt that obvious but the ball was still moving as he stepped out.

The ball was still moving but he had it in control. Call it a one handed catch if it so pleases you.

fansince'76
12-04-2007, 05:56 PM
What are you talking about. You can't yell; "Time out!" and wave your hands in the officials face and expect him not to call the time out. That's not his fault. If you could do that then I'd have a guy yell that every snap to distract him. If the defensive coach isn't allowed to call a timeout then he is the one who broke the rule. The official has a game to oversee and doesn't have time to identify which Raven is illegally trying to call a timeout.

I agree - this falls on the Ravens' coaching staff, and not the refs.

RoethlisBURGHer
12-04-2007, 06:05 PM
The ball was still moving but he had it in control. Call it a one handed catch if it so pleases you.

If the ball is moving, then he does NOT have it in control.

The Patriot
12-04-2007, 06:11 PM
If the ball is moving, then he does NOT have it in control.

Alright. If you want to be that adament. There were two 15yd penalties on the play which would have resulted in a 75% advancement to the goal line and a first down. Didn't you hear a similar argument from Seahawks fans when Ben rushed for that TD?

MACH1
12-04-2007, 06:39 PM
The ball was still moving but he had it in control. Call it a one handed catch if it so pleases you.

Just cause he was juggling it like a circus clown doesn't mean it was in control.

The Patriot
12-04-2007, 08:25 PM
Just cause he was juggling it like a circus clown doesn't mean it was in control.

Ben really didn't make that Touchdown in the SB. He was short. The refs were payed off and the seahawks should have won. Sound familiar?

stlrtruck
12-04-2007, 09:14 PM
The ball was still moving but he had it in control. Call it a one handed catch if it so pleases you.

NFL refs have called many a caught ball incomplete because of this same reason.

While I don't blame the patriots for the inability of the ref crew to have a better understanding of the game, I do blame them for the pompous attitude that they display each week. It's to the point that they and even some of their fans have thought themselves bigger than the NFL - I can't wait for their ride to come to a crashing halt!!

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-05-2007, 08:13 AM
The ball was still moving but he had it in control. Call it a one handed catch if it so pleases you.

:sofunny::sofunny:...you are so special.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-05-2007, 08:26 AM
I agree - this falls on the Ravens' coaching staff, and not the refs.

I disagree, I believe that it was STUPID for the assistant coach to call timeout....but just because it came back to bite the Ravens on the butt doesnt take away from the officials responsibliity to KNOW and ENFORCE the rules. The end does not justify the means in this case.
The enforcement of rules ALWAYS falls on the shoulders of the officials. If the Ravens were to call 4 timeouts ...and it was allowed by the officials.... everyone would be up in arms about how the official should have been more aware. No difference. Its the Refs responsibility.

Counselor
12-05-2007, 09:48 AM
I disagree, I believe that it was STUPID for the assistant coach to call timeout....but just because it came back to bite the Ravens on the butt doesnt take away from the officials responsibliity to KNOW and ENFORCE the rules. The end does not justify the means in this case.
The enforcement of rules ALWAYS falls on the shoulders of the officials. If the Ravens were to call 4 timeouts ...and it was allowed by the officials.... everyone would be up in arms about how the official should have been more aware. No difference. Its the Refs responsibility.

Does this change anyone's perspective?----what if Rex Ryan was not trying to yell for the ref to give him a time out, but yelling to his players to call time out. Looking at the replay I think there is an argument for that. The players either didn't hear or ignored him. Wouldn't it then, clearly, be the ref's fault for not being aware that it wasn't the head coach?

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-05-2007, 10:37 AM
Does this change anyone's perspective?----what if Rex Ryan was not trying to yell for the ref to give him a time out, but yelling to his players to call time out. Looking at the replay I think there is an argument for that. The players either didn't hear or ignored him. Wouldn't it then, clearly, be the ref's fault for not being aware that it wasn't the head coach?

I'm not sure of your point....I'm not blaming New England and I most certainly think that the Ravens assistant is a bonehead...BUT the bottom line is that the Officials are paid to know the rules and ti make sure that the rules are followed. One of the Ravens coaches was not aware of the rule....that does not clear the official who illegally allowed the time out.

let me give you another example...Lets say that on Sunday...with 10 seconds left on the clock...we get a TD, and Belichick throws his challenge flag out even though he is out of challenges. Lets say the official allows the challenge and overturns the TD and we lose. Who do you blame? THE OFFICIAL. It is his job to know the rules and to enforce them.

I'm not seeing how anyone can clear the ref of allowing that timeout...He was wrong and he should be docked a paycheck....PERIOD!

tony hipchest
12-05-2007, 08:48 PM
vp of officiating mike pereira "cleared" this up today. :rolleyes:

the rule is that only the head coach or players on the field can call a timeout. however there is an unwritten "patriotrule" that has never been disclosed.

appearantly when the official is looking in waiting for a snap, if he hears "timeout" at the last second he doesnt have the time to turn around and look at who called timeout because they may miss the snap of the ball, therefore, in that situation, the officials will grant a timeout to ANYBODY,

(even a fan in the stands with a megaphone? the officials can actually think they hear "timeout" and nullify a play, just like phil luckett thought he heard "heads".)

pereira actually said they will have to look to amend that rule in the offseason (to make it look like the patriots got the right call, no doubt).

odd how these strange, obscure rules are never caught or enforced unless the patriots are playing.

gaffneys td winning catch is ruled a bobble 99 out of 100 times. personally i think it should be ruled as a catch but there is too much 2 step, football move, both hands on the bal plus a body part, pirouette, hop, skip, jump, fall to the ground and maintain possession, rules that have wiped out plenty of receptions in recent years that were much cleaner than jar jar binks catch.

now i dont think there is a conspiracy. i just think the officials know they better not end the streak and perfect season on a bad call. it is better to err on the side of caution (meaning its 10X better to job a team like the ravens out of a win as opposed to jobbing the patriots out of making history).

are they afraid the nfl may fire them if they do so? possibly. are they afraid kraft and chick may have a hit out with the russian mafia? if i was a ref i'd be more scared about losing my life than my job. :chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-07-2007, 03:32 AM
...an "unwritten" rule.

:banging:

silver & black
12-07-2007, 09:05 PM
vp of officiating mike pereira "cleared" this up today. :rolleyes:

the rule is that only the head coach or players on the field can call a timeout. however there is an unwritten "patriotrule" that has never been disclosed.

appearantly when the official is looking in waiting for a snap, if he hears "timeout" at the last second he doesnt have the time to turn around and look at who called timeout because they may miss the snap of the ball, therefore, in that situation, the officials will grant a timeout to ANYBODY,

(even a fan in the stands with a megaphone? the officials can actually think they hear "timeout" and nullify a play, just like phil luckett thought he heard "heads".)

pereira actually said they will have to look to amend that rule in the offseason (to make it look like the patriots got the right call, no doubt).

odd how these strange, obscure rules are never caught or enforced unless the patriots are playing. gaffneys td winning catch is ruled a bobble 99 out of 100 times. personally i think it should be ruled as a catch but there is too much 2 step, football move, both hands on the bal plus a body part, pirouette, hop, skip, jump, fall to the ground and maintain possession, rules that have wiped out plenty of receptions in recent years that were much cleaner than jar jar binks catch.

now i dont think there is a conspiracy. i just think the officials know they better not end the streak and perfect season on a bad call. it is better to err on the side of caution (meaning its 10X better to job a team like the ravens out of a win as opposed to jobbing the patriots out of making history).

are they afraid the nfl may fire them if they do so? possibly. are they afraid kraft and chick may have a hit out with the russian mafia? if i was a ref i'd be more scared about losing my life than my job. :chuckle:

Or the team is wearing silver & black... on the flip side.

Preacher
12-08-2007, 12:07 AM
Ben really didn't make that Touchdown in the SB. He was short. The refs were payed off and the seahawks should have won. Sound familiar?

No, it actually doesn't. Because anyone who cared enough... could easily find out it WAS A TD.

Now follow me, because I know your a Pats fans, it is hard for you to follow logic.. but work with me!

1. Pause the tape, DVR, etc.

2. Take a straight edge... any will do, and put it on the beginning of the goal line.

3. Look for a pointy brown thing on the OTHER SIDE of that straight edge.

Yeah... that is the ball. That means it WAS a touchdown, indisputable. While I agree that it was a catch for Moss... the facts are NOT indisputable. That is the problem with judgment calls.

What you're having the hardest time dealing with is the fact that the Pats didn't win that game, the Ravens lost it. Twice in a row, the dice have come up right for you. You know the odds on a third time right?

Personally, I hope you do beat us. Why? Because I want to end you perfect season one game short of the Superbowl.
______________________

Oh yeah... and those two 15 yard penalties? They came AFTER the call... because according to the Ravens... the DB was pushed down WITHOUT a penalty.

I haven't been able to see enough of the tape to see if it was true or not. I wonder if that is purposeful? No, I don't think there is a conspiracy. It would have just been the refs blowing a call, but the NFL knows that if the player WAS pushed down... and no called made, there would be an UPROAR. Then again... who knows what happened in the back rooms?!

You see... once a team has been caught CHEATING... EVERY WIN IS SUSPECT. Even the wins AFTER THE CHEATING STOPS (supposedly).


You can thank Belicheat for that.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-08-2007, 04:08 AM
Personally, I hope you do beat us. Why? Because I want to end you perfect season one game short of the Superbowl.


Now THAT would be Poetic Justice