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Stu Pidasso
12-10-2007, 11:59 PM
Okay, I didn't quite make it to my self imposed 48 hour cooling off period, but my feelings haven't changed, so I might as well say it: I'm embarrassed.


I'm not embarrassed we lost to the Pats.

What I'm ashamed, embarassed, and pissed off about is how we handled ourselves on defense the entire game. I blame our cornerbacks. You CANNOT give the Patriots receivers a 9 yard pad on every play. That's why Brady killed us in the short passing game. It was like we were afraid of them. We had the #1 defense in the league, and we went out there and played reactive, not proactive. To beat the Pats, you have to step up and smack them in the mouth. Baltimore and Philly did that. We backed off, and I am embarrassed. Anthony Smith should have been benched after he was burned for the first TD.

To anyone who has watched and played football for as long as I have, you notice little things. After we were stopped on 4th and goal at the one, the Steelers gave up. We gave up. We GAVE THE F**K UP. INEXCUSEABLE. I don't care if you go out there and lose, as long as you play. Your'e down by 18 at the start of the 4th quarter, you HURRY THE HELL UP. You play with urgency. You don't run out the clock and say, "Oh well. We tried in the first half."

I need to stop.

Borski
12-11-2007, 12:04 AM
To anyone who has watched and played football for as long as I have, you notice little things. After we were stopped on 4th and goal at the one, the Steelers gave up. We gave up. We GAVE THE F**K UP. INEXCUSEABLE. I don't care if you go out there and lose, as long as you play. Your'e down by 18 at the start of the 4th quarter, you HURRY THE HELL UP. You play with urgency. You don't run out the clock and say, "Oh well. We tried in the first half."

I need to stop.

I know, I was freaking out at them after they started to give up, when your down by 18 in the 4th you need to take risks, you have nothing to lose and some lucky plays cant put you in the reins to lead a comeback...but we just gave up.

eafratitpm3
12-11-2007, 12:12 AM
Those cushions were ridiculous, I remember there was a time in the second half where NE had a 3rd and 1 and a reciever was flanked out to the right and you couldn't even see the defender in the picture, WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

Steeldude
12-11-2007, 04:30 AM
the really bad part of the game was watching the some of the steelers defensive players laughing it up with the patriots in the 2nd half. that is a clear sign that some players need to be cut next year.

Elvis
12-11-2007, 05:06 AM
:coffee:
Well.... Atleast none
of the True Steelers Fans Are
Giving Up On Us.....
:tt02:

Michael Keller
12-11-2007, 05:25 AM
Okay, I didn't quite make it to my self imposed 48 hour cooling off period, but my feelings haven't changed, so I might as well say it: I'm embarrassed.


I'm not embarrassed we lost to the Pats.

What I'm ashamed, embarassed, and pissed off about is how we handled ourselves on defense the entire game. I blame our cornerbacks. You CANNOT give the Patriots receivers a 9 yard pad on every play. That's why Brady killed us in the short passing game. It was like we were afraid of them. We had the #1 defense in the league, and we went out there and played reactive, not proactive. To beat the Pats, you have to step up and smack them in the mouth. Baltimore and Philly did that. We backed off, and I am embarrassed. Anthony Smith should have been benched after he was burned for the first TD.

To anyone who has watched and played football for as long as I have, you notice little things. After we were stopped on 4th and goal at the one, the Steelers gave up. We gave up. We GAVE THE F**K UP. INEXCUSEABLE. I don't care if you go out there and lose, as long as you play. Your'e down by 18 at the start of the 4th quarter, you HURRY THE HELL UP. You play with urgency. You don't run out the clock and say, "Oh well. We tried in the first half."

I need to stop.

Stu

I feel your pain and every single point you made I wholeheartdly agree with. I keep asking myself what is missing in this team because something certainly seems to be. Is the money so big that these guys are wealthy and comfortable and not as passionate as we would like them to be. You would not think so but your right they in all reality gave up . This team ' quality of play and passion or lack of may be just a
composite of their inidividual personalities , which is not to my liking.

Think about it:

We lost to Arizona where they out tuffed us.

WE could not run the ball against a weak Denver defense

The Jets just outsmashed us. That game was the worst.

New England , we simply did not play 4 quarters ,

This team has the talent and if it can find its passion and detemination it can advance through the play offs. This Sunday is a good test.

Steeldude
12-11-2007, 07:25 AM
This team has the talent and if it can find its passion and determination it can advance through the play offs. This Sunday is a good test.


i disagree, this team does not have the talent. the O-line is filled with marginal players. the LB corps is average also. do any of the starting LBs, besides harrison, really do anything above average on a consistent basis? seems to me the steelers could place any average LB in foote's spot and he will do the same or better. the is not a talented group. the LBs are supposed to make this defense, but it looks like the are just going through the motions. no longer do the steelers have lloyd, greene, brown, kirkland and holmes. instead they have been adding average LBs into the mix. maybe timmons and woodley will be above average and re-ignite the steelers D. now i am not saying that the steelers' LBs are complete jokes or useless pieces of sh**. the steelers really need timmons and woodley to excel.

also, the steelers need a cerebral player on defense to run things and keep everyone focused. back in the 90's they had lloyd, lake, woodson, kirkland and greene to keep everything moving and working. who do they have now?

back to the O-line. what do the steelers have on their roster?

faneca is gone next year.
simmons is...well...not good.
kemo is dumb, yes dumb. a big, strong guy, but can't learn the plays.
essex is just a backup, nothing more.
smith is becoming injury prone again.
mahan is not a center. could be better if moved to his natural position(guard).
starks will be gone next year too.
colon doesn't appear to be a tackle, but possibly a guard.
stapleton(i keep forgetting his name) is unknown, but they seem to like him as a possible future center. he will need to gain weight. looks like a project.

the O-line is going to be interesting next season.

one player i wouldn't mind seeing leave is mcfadden. he seems only to be able to commit pass interference penalties. his attitude is sophomoric at best. he makes a routine play and starts strutting and dancing like he did something great. anthony smith does this also, but i wouldn't give up on him just yet. he has a lot more potential than mcfadden. what about anthony smith at SS and polamalu at FS? or find a new backup FS for clark and move smith to backup SS.

the best talent the steeler have seems to be the well known and obvious ones. such as BR, ward, holmes, hampton, aaron smith, polamalu, harrison, taylor. i didn't list parker because he doesn't seem to be that great of a talent, IMO. if the O-line opens a hole then any RB can go through it. does parker really make players miss or bust that many tackles? i can't say that i have seen it enough to say he is consistent with it. does he suck? no way, but i wouldn't call him a star or a great talent. well maybe he should be on the list :smile:

SteelersJW
12-11-2007, 07:54 AM
Totally agree with you, defense stunk it up. The Patriots run the ball an average of nine times a game. What more do you need to do than sit back in the secondary and stay on the recievers. Buying the play-action-passes was the stupidist thing that could have happened to our defense. Forget the running game for the Patriots.

X-Terminator
12-11-2007, 08:00 AM
the really bad part of the game was watching the some of the steelers defensive players laughing it up with the patriots in the 2nd half. that is a clear sign that some players need to be cut next year.

It's called showing class and good sportsmanship, 2 things that Steelers fans consistently bash the Patriots for not showing. Would you rather them be poor sports and act like the Bungles just because they're losing?

Win with class, and lose with class. There's nothing wrong with either.

Steeldude
12-11-2007, 08:13 AM
It's called showing class and good sportsmanship, 2 things that Steelers fans consistently bash the Patriots for not showing. Would you rather them be poor sports and act like the Bungles just because they're losing?

Win with class, and lose with class. There's nothing wrong with either.

so laughing it up during game time with the opposition while currently losing and being made fools of is sportsmanship?

i would rather have them get angry and play harder while being behind. giving up is never an answer.

how many times did you see lambert lauging it up with the opposing team during the game when trailing in points so badly? how about lloyd?

since when does becoming content with losing equate to being classy?

you come from a strange place if you think laughing while getting stomped is the right thing to do.

Michael Keller
12-11-2007, 08:15 AM
i disagree, this team does not have the talent. the O-line is filled with marginal players. the LB corps is average also. do any of the starting LBs, besides harrison, really do anything above average on a consistent basis? seems to me the steelers could place any average LB in foote's spot and he will do the same or better. the is not a talented group. the LBs are supposed to make this defense, but it looks like the are just going through the motions. no longer do the steelers have lloyd, greene, brown, kirkland and holmes. instead they have been adding average LBs into the mix. maybe timmons and woodley will be above average and re-ignite the steelers D. now i am not saying that the steelers' LBs are complete jokes or useless pieces of sh**. the steelers really need timmons and woodley to excel.

also, the steelers need a cerebral player on defense to run things and keep everyone focused. back in the 90's they had lloyd, lake, woodson, kirkland and greene to keep everything moving and working. who do they have now?

back to the O-line. what do the steelers have on their roster?

faneca is gone next year.
simmons is...well...not good.
kemo is dumb, yes dumb. a big, strong guy, but can't learn the plays.
essex is just a backup, nothing more.
smith is becoming injury prone again.
mahan is not a center. could be better if moved to his natural position(guard).
starks will be gone next year too.
colon doesn't appear to be a tackle, but possibly a guard.
stapleton(i keep forgetting his name) is unknown, but they seem to like him as a possible future center. he will need to gain weight. looks like a project.

the O-line is going to be interesting next season.

one player i wouldn't mind seeing leave is mcfadden. he seems only to be able to commit pass interference penalties. his attitude is sophomoric at best. he makes a routine play and starts strutting and dancing like he did something great. anthony smith does this also, but i wouldn't give up on him just yet. he has a lot more potential than mcfadden. what about anthony smith at SS and polamalu at FS? or find a new backup FS for clark and move smith to backup SS.

the best talent the steeler have seems to be the well known and obvious ones. such as BR, ward, holmes, hampton, aaron smith, polamalu, harrison, taylor. i didn't list parker because he doesn't seem to be that great of a talent, IMO. if the O-line opens a hole then any RB can go through it. does parker really make players miss or bust that many tackles? i can't say that i have seen it enough to say he is consistent with it. does he suck? no way, but i wouldn't call him a star or a great talent. well maybe he should be on the list :smile:


You make a compelling argument for a general lack of talent. Do you therefore understand why the Steelers are 9 and 4 , having lost to the Cardinals, Broncos and Jets. In your mind are they just not good enough to beat teams such as these on a consitent basis?

I repectfully would like to hear your opinion as to what this team's record should be based upon the talent as you assess it.

revefsreleets
12-11-2007, 08:57 AM
I said this before the game, and it still stands. The Steelers DB's played closer to the line at the beginning of the game, and they were burnt deep. Twice. They then moved back and gave up a cushion which forced NE into a short passing game, the logic being it's harder to execute 10 9 yard passes then 1 90 yard pass. It can't be both ways. The problem lies in the fact that NE was able to execute efficiently against both defensive sets, effectively "taking what we were giving them" in both scenarios.

X-Terminator
12-11-2007, 09:30 AM
so laughing it up during game time with the opposition while currently losing and being made fools of is sportsmanship?

i would rather have them get angry and play harder while being behind. giving up is never an answer.

how many times did you see lambert lauging it up with the opposing team during the game when trailing in points so badly? how about lloyd?

since when does becoming content with losing equate to being classy?

you come from a strange place if you think laughing while getting stomped is the right thing to do.

I'm of the mindset that you don't act like a complete jackass when you're losing, plain and simple. I believe in respect for your opponent. I believe in...omg...SHOWING CLASS on the field. If you think those are strange concepts, then more power to you. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me, and it sure as hell isn't worth getting your panties in a bunch over.

ShutDown24
12-11-2007, 10:01 AM
"Aww it was the cornerbacks" "Ah the corners gave too big a cushion" No. They didn't. The strength of the Patriots outside wide receivers is the deep ball to Moss and the quick WR screen to Stallworth. The plays where the Corners where giving that huge cushion wasn't ussually their discretion anyway. It was a common zone play that the Steelers like to run a lot on third downs. The corners play way back off and either one or both outside linebackers cut toward the sideline in coverage at the snap. The Safeties play a standard 2-deep and everyone in the middle goes blitz. The weakness of this play is that the middle of the field has no one in a zone generally which means the safeties and corners have to come down to make the tackle. Corners always play off in zones because they don't have a man.

Oh and anyone who is complaining about Parker you can't. He leads the league in rushing, nothing else can be said. You can't argue against that. Especially since so many of you like to say how much our line sucks.

klick81
12-11-2007, 10:08 AM
I'm of the mindset that you don't act like a complete jackass when you're losing, plain and simple. I believe in respect for your opponent. I believe in...omg...SHOWING CLASS on the field. If you think those are strange concepts, then more power to you. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me, and it sure as hell isn't worth getting your panties in a bunch over.

I was going to stay out of this thread because I generally try to stay positive, but come on man. There IS a difference between showing class (by being respectful), and laughing while you are trailing to a team that has consistantly made you their bitch.

The players that were laughing showed that they were 'OK' with their performance on the field, either as an individual, or more importantly as a TEAM. I found that RIDICULOUS to say the least.

ShutDown24
12-11-2007, 10:13 AM
I was going to stay out of this thread because I generally try to stay positive, but come on man. There IS a difference between showing class (by being respectful), and laughing while you are trailing to a team that has consistantly made you their bitch.

The players that were laughing showed that they were 'OK' with their performance on the field, either as an individual, or more importantly as a TEAM. I found that RIDICULOUS to say the least.

That was good to see. Laughing isn't giving in or saying they 'were ok with their performance on the field' Ike and Deshea were over with Randy Moss and Stallworth came over I think and they were just shooting the crap. Ike was asked about that and he said they were just saying good luck and congradulations about the season and stuff... Why the hell does that bother our fans?

X-Terminator
12-11-2007, 10:14 AM
I was going to stay out of this thread because I generally try to stay positive, but come on man. There IS a difference between showing class (by being respectful), and laughing while you are trailing to a team that has consistantly made you their bitch.

The players that were laughing showed that they were 'OK' with their performance on the field, either as an individual, or more importantly as a TEAM. I found that RIDICULOUS to say the least.

Fine, I respect your (and Steeldude's) opinion on the matter. It didn't tell me that, but then again, I don't think like everyone else. I will say one other thing though, and that is that more than ever before, the players are like one big fraternity due to the union, and they are more friendly to each other now than they were even 15 years ago. A lot of these guys even train with each other in the offseason. That, I think, played a part in what you saw in that game, and is also why I am not getting personally offended by it. It's a different era.

That was good to see. Laughing isn't giving in or saying they 'were ok with their performance on the field' Ike and Deshea were over with Randy Moss and Stallworth came over I think and they were just shooting the crap. Ike was asked about that and he said they were just saying good luck and congradulations about the season and stuff... Why the hell does that bother our fans?

It shouldn't, but that's the mentality that a lot of our fans have, because they take football so seriously - TOO seriously, if you ask me.

Rotorhead
12-11-2007, 10:19 AM
I am going to put most of this loss on Smith, yeah I said it, it is on him and he needs to step up and take the blame. He was flapping his jaws before the game and it was SMITH that blew the coverage on the 2 deep passes to MOSS. Why the hell would he run up on a play-action except only to try to get a big hit on someone. Forget about the stupid big hits and COVER. Yeah I know we lost by more the 2 TD's, but remove them and we dont GIVE UP like we did cause we are in the game till the end. Alot of the rest goes to Arians . . . what the hell was that goalline play BS call? We just got done converting 2 4-1's and we run that crap? Put in 2 backs and punch it in dammit. That was pathetic play calling. The rest goes to our pressure . . . didnt our coaching staff watch film on how to pressure Brady, we had no pressure on him all day long, wtf? We need to really improve the playcalling and pressure if we are to make waves in the playoffs.

The_WARDen
12-11-2007, 10:26 AM
so laughing it up during game time with the opposition while currently losing and being made fools of is sportsmanship?

i would rather have them get angry and play harder while being behind. giving up is never an answer.

how many times did you see lambert lauging it up with the opposing team during the game when trailing in points so badly? how about lloyd?

since when does becoming content with losing equate to being classy?

you come from a strange place if you think laughing while getting stomped is the right thing to do.


well said!

:cheers:

steeler dude
12-11-2007, 10:35 AM
imo they couldnt get out of foxboro fast enough !

steeler dude
12-11-2007, 10:47 AM
:dang:question ? are we seeing the change over to a tomlin team ? 3 things happened that seriously changed to momentum of the game bigtime 1. 3rd and long ben throws a 20 yard pass to a wide open holmes but pass was short that would have put us on our 19 yard line/ instead punt pats get ball and score. 2. in the same series big ben has his stuff together puts the ball on the spot 2 times to keep drive alive but nate washington drops one and the other hit him in the facemask lol :sofunny::banging: and 3. 3rd and goal on the 1 play calling ben drop back pass fade to corner WTF ? 4th and goal on 1 yrd line reverse run side ways with ward omg ! we need to rebound against the jags for a win because 4 days after that we play in st louis i will be at that game :cheers: although the pats are very good maybe we will get a second chance like we did in 2005 against the colts they whipped us in the regular season the year they went 12-0 but playoffs was different story

klick81
12-11-2007, 10:48 AM
TOO seriously, if you ask me.

:banana: No more serious than 4 posts per day serious.

stlrtruck
12-11-2007, 11:21 AM
I agree with the giving up of large cushions against receivers and the thing is if you watch the eagles and ratbirds games against the patriacheats they were on the line being aggressive against the receivers and also getting after brady - the Steelers did neither on Sunday.

I can only hope they do it this week against the jags!

Steeldude
12-11-2007, 08:24 PM
I'm of the mindset that you don't act like a complete jackass when you're losing, plain and simple. I believe in respect for your opponent. I believe in...omg...SHOWING CLASS on the field. If you think those are strange concepts, then more power to you. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me, and it sure as hell isn't worth getting your panties in a bunch over.


how is refraining from laughing it up with the opposition during the game, while losing badly, considered poor sportsmanship or unclassy?

we are two different people. you think that losing is something the steelers should laugh about during the game. i believe the steelers should be concentrating on a game plan and playing harder, not laughing at jokes that the other team is making.

fansince'76
12-11-2007, 08:28 PM
how is refraining from laughing it up with the opposition during the game, while losing badly, considered poor sportsmanship or unclassy?

we are two different people. you think that losing is something the steelers should laugh about during the game. i believe the steelers should be concentrating on a game plan and playing harder, not laughing at jokes that the other team is making.

Gotta say I agree with you. There's plenty of time for feel-good, buddy-buddy bullsh*t - AFTER the game.

Stlr4ever
12-12-2007, 10:23 AM
"disagree, this team does not have the talent."
I agree. Why else would Colon let Mike Vrabel push him all over the place as if Vrabel was using him as a practice device?
Our secondary was simply awful. Compare them with Eagles and Ravens secondary. Our secondary can't hold a candle to them.
Our LB corps look good when they against weak teams like Cincy but are dreadful against teams like Pats. Farrior got close to Brady several times but could not touch him. In a 3-4 scheme, you must have very good LBs, NOT average. The Steelers must acquire at least two top notch LB either by drafting or trading--the same for DBs.

Godfather
12-12-2007, 10:50 AM
It seems like the weakness in our defensive scheme is short passes over the middle. It's been that way for a long time (remember how teams picked us apart in 2002 the same way?)

I don't have a problem with our secondary, although Sunday's result shows how valuable Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu are. We have them and at the very least it's not a blowout.

Rhee Rhee
12-12-2007, 06:20 PM
It's called showing class and good sportsmanship, 2 things that Steelers fans consistently bash the Patriots for not showing. Would you rather them be poor sports and act like the Bungles just because they're losing?

Win with class, and lose with class. There's nothing wrong with either.

you have all the time in the world to do that after the game after the season not during a F-ing game. i think the coaches wanted to preserve ben's passerrating instead of going all-out at the end

Stu Pidasso
12-13-2007, 02:02 PM
I agree with the class thing. When you are on the field, the other team is your enemy. I don't care if you're lining up against your own brother. Take him down. Name one defensive Steeler of the 70's who did that.

My dad (who has played pro ball and refereed for 13 years) used to have a saying. "Never ever start a fight. But if you're in one, you better damn well finish it."

Hug after the clock strikes 0:00.

NateC
12-13-2007, 05:15 PM
Stu

I feel your pain and every single point you made I wholeheartdly agree with. I keep asking myself what is missing in this team because something certainly seems to be. Is the money so big that these guys are wealthy and comfortable and not as passionate as we would like them to be. You would not think so but your right they in all reality gave up . This team ' quality of play and passion or lack of may be just a
composite of their inidividual personalities , which is not to my liking.

Think about it:

We lost to Arizona where they out tuffed us.

WE could not run the ball against a weak Denver defense

The Jets just outsmashed us. That game was the worst.

New England , we simply did not play 4 quarters ,

This team has the talent and if it can find its passion and detemination it can advance through the play offs. This Sunday is a good test.

Yeah... good stuff, this is it...

Heres to Finding it :cheers:

Stlr4ever
12-13-2007, 06:02 PM
" I blame our cornerbacks. You CANNOT give the Patriots receivers a 9 yard pad on every play. That's why Brady killed us in the short passing game. It was like we were afraid of them."

Being an ex-WR and DC, you would think Tomlin would have recognized and corrected those mistakes, but he did not. I am wondering about his ability to adjustments during the game. How long do you think it's going to take him to turn this team into a championship calibre team? Perhaps, he needs a few more good players (especially CBs) and OLmen.

The Duke
12-13-2007, 06:16 PM
" I blame our cornerbacks. You CANNOT give the Patriots receivers a 9 yard pad on every play. That's why Brady killed us in the short passing game. It was like we were afraid of them."

Being an ex-WR and DC, you would think Tomlin would have recognized and corrected those mistakes, but he did not. I am wondering about his ability to adjustments during the game. How long do you think it's going to take him to turn this team into a championship calibre team? Perhaps, he needs a few more good players (especially CBs) and OLmen.

perhaps he's just in his first season and is still learning. give him some time

but yeah, the cb's shouldn't give that 10 yard cushion to receivers. I think that's more of Le Beau's scheme. and surprisingly when they don't use it the D is great, like against the hawks

Fire Haley
12-13-2007, 07:17 PM
Tomlin better get that fire lit under his boy's butts.

That's why I hired him.

Dino 6 Rings
12-14-2007, 04:13 PM
HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!

GBMelBlount
12-14-2007, 06:33 PM
yeah, the cb's shouldn't give that 10 yard cushion to receivers. I think that's more of Le Beau's scheme. and surprisingly when they don't use it the D is great, like against the hawks

Seattle's no slouch on offense. it is ironic we not only played very well, but shut them out.

MasterOfPuppets
12-14-2007, 06:53 PM
"disagree, this team does not have the talent."
I agree. Why else would Colon let Mike Vrabel push him all over the place as if Vrabel was using him as a practice device?
Our secondary was simply awful. Compare them with Eagles and Ravens secondary. Our secondary can't hold a candle to them.
Our LB corps look good when they against weak teams like Cincy but are dreadful against teams like Pats. Farrior got close to Brady several times but could not touch him. In a 3-4 scheme, you must have very good LBs, NOT average.
The Steelers must acquire at least two top notch LB either by drafting or trading--the same for DBs.
psssst....:coffee:....i've got a source on the inside,who told me...THEY JUST DRAFTED 2 LINEBACKERS !!!!!.....:toofunny:

GBMelBlount
12-14-2007, 07:01 PM
psssst....:coffee:....i've got a source on the inside,who told me...THEY JUST DRAFTED 2 LINEBACKERS !!!!!.....:toofunny:

can they be converted to OL????.....Just dreamin I guess. :wink02:

FAB802
12-14-2007, 07:42 PM
Seattle's no slouch on offense. it is ironic we not only played very well, but shut them out.

I was at that game and they were way more agressive in the defensive backfield as far as the corners went. I know our safeties were out, but it isn't like their receivers weren't getting open anyways. A soft ass receiver like Moss needs to be jammed and hit to throw him off. There were chances to hit Brady too and guys pulled up. I'm not saying we should be blatantly late hitting QB's, but he can't function when he gets dirty. If it means following through on a close call and possibly getting a penalty so be it.