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View Full Version : Memo to Rooneys: ie-The Randy Moss experiment


coachspeak33
12-13-2007, 11:55 AM
The loss to the patsies stings....no question. However, there still is a ton of ball to be played. And we, as steeler fans, have a lot to be excited about.

-we have a rook HC who appears to be an effective motivator & communicater...he has answered many questions we all had concerning him leading into this season...and he is only 1 win (and some help) away from winning a div title

-Talk about answering questions entering the 07-08 season....just mentioning the words "big ben" and "elite NFL QB" in the same sentence speaks volumes about his worth to the steelers as a "franchise QB"...(remember what ben looked liked last yr...YUK)

-Willie currently leads the NFL in rushing...and he is doing it behind a much-questioned Oline that has two new starters this yr

-The D hasnt missed a beat...the secondary is playing better this yr vs last yr by leaps and bounds....Harrison has been an improvement over Peezy....Farrior has shown he still has someting left in the tank...Woodley/Timmons have shown potential & versatility and there day to shine will come

-In spite of his minor setbacks w/ injuries Santonio appears to be a #1WR in the making

Ok i am getting off track....

We all know that the rooneys arent going to be big players in the FA game....but lets look at the Pats for a minute.

They have been major contenders for the lombardi trophy for most of this decade...and for the most part of said decade, they were building their team very similarly to the Rooney way....
-Stressed defensive mentality (hard to believe it when you look at them this yr, but think back to 01-04...they were a defensive team)
-very willing to part w/ overpriced talent which can be replaced from within (Givens, Branch, McGinest, etc)
-deep draft days (get productivity from second day guys...ummm they drafted this brady guy in rd 6 one yr)
-near perfect record with success of 1st rd picks (seymour, wolfork, maroney, etc)
-great coaching staff top to bottom (too many assistants who have moved on to name)

Then they lost to Denver in 05....then to Indy in 06....and they said to themselves-

Our D is getting older-but still has some gas in the tank, our hall of fame QB is in his prime, our O line is as good as its ever been, We need to get some weapons in the passing game.

So they go out and get Welker via trade, stallworth & kelly washington too....And then one of the most dominating WRs (at times) the league has ever seen becomes available....

We as steelers fans, last spring fully acknowledged that there was ZERO chance of him ever wearing the black and gold

The Patriots decision makers, on the other hand, said to themselves,

"Hey, we have a team oriented franchise that really has bought into the team concept. Winning championships is all that matters here in Foxboro. We will bring Moss in and he will be forced to buy into this winning atmosphere....Our TEAM atmoshpere. He will do it because winning cures all, if not most, players ills. It will work. Randy will work out. You wanna know why? Cause like Dick Gere in an officer and a gentlemen...'He's got no place else to go!!!' And if he dont, we cut his ass and move on"

In hindsight, the randy moss gamble looks like a safe bet for the pats because Randy is still a physical freak of nature....but we didnt know if he still had it before the season...we hadnt seen it in a couple of yrs...we now know it was still there

But we should have known it would work...not cause of Randy though....Its because of the pats franchise....how its built....and what it is designed to do...win championships...

Will the rooneys ever trust the structure and stability of their franchise to coral an unmotivated but gifted athlete like a randy moss?

They love to take gambles on undrafted overachievers. some work out well (willie, krieder, etc), others play fine, but still dont fill the void as well as we would like it (nate washington), and our FA signees the last few yrs leave a lot to be desired (cedric, mahan, duce)

Another thread mentioned deangelo hall as a guy to possibly bring in next year....and quickly it was shot down with and i am not saying i want him but after what we saw w/ moss and NE this season...maybe the rooneys shouldnt rule out talented "gambles"

we made one w/ bettis and that turned out ok....but that was over a decade ago....it might be time to bring in a proven player of elite capability

The pats are currently reaping the benefits of the Randy Moss gamble....will the rooneys ever catch up to the competition in this aspect? Thoughts anyone?

Sharkissle29
12-13-2007, 12:18 PM
you make a very interesting point. however, i still dont see the rooneys pulling the trigger on anything, thats how its always been

Dino 6 Rings
12-13-2007, 12:34 PM
And should the Pats not win it all this season...how will that Gamble on Moss pan out over the 2008 or 2009 season when he starts taking plays off.

We'll do what we do. Build from within, take chances on talent out of college, try to develop them in our system, and once in a while make a trade to sure up some part of our team that is lacking.

revefsreleets
12-13-2007, 12:39 PM
I never ever ever EVER want to see the Rooney's compromise the integrity of the Steelers chasing bad character guys. I'd rather be 2-14 with a team of decent guys who play as a team then 19-0 and win the Super Bowl every year with a bunch of prima donna's or gangsta thugs.

Atlanta Dan
12-13-2007, 12:39 PM
The Pats have a one year window with this currrent team - Moss in particular is taking a huge salary haircut to play on a winner while rehabbing his image for FA. The piper gets paid starting in 2008.

If the Rooneys and Faneca had a blowup on his contract, the Rooneys will not be big players in the FA market, especially until they figure what Ben is going to cost.

P.S. - D'Angelo Hall certainly is a malcontent but not a particularly talented one.

Dino 6 Rings
12-13-2007, 12:44 PM
Just say no to Gangsta Thugs...give me integrity, like Troy P, Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis, guys who have class and are respected in the community. And not guys smoking weed, smacking their girlfriends, getting in bar fights or being down right bad citizens.

Class wins too...2005 Steelers, 2006 Colts. Teams with Class.

Steeldude
12-13-2007, 12:44 PM
moss wouldnt' be happy in pittsburgh because he wouldn't get the ball. also, he lives on the longball and BR isn't that great at anything beyond 20 or so yards. a couple of games with a single catch or less and he would complain and give up.

tony hipchest
12-13-2007, 01:33 PM
the steelers passed on their own plaxico, and didnt even look at moss or owens (one is likely to win their 1st sb this year and leaders of the top 2 offenses.

imagine how much jamal lewis would help our power running game right now.

could the steelerfans ever support a cheap, extremely talented, former malcontent? hell, they cant even handle steely mcbeam. it will never happen.

but you gotta admit, even with half their production, moss and lewis wouldve done wonders for this steelers offense. to the rooneys though, the risk just doesnt outweigh the reward

coachspeak33
12-13-2007, 01:44 PM
love the feedback....just to clarify tho....I am not saying we shouldve went after moss....just saying that i think it worked with him in NE because of their stable franchise, stable QB postition, stable coaching staff, stable ownership, etc....Well, we have all those things in Pittsburgh

I think the Pats treated Moss as a test of their franchises commitment moreso than testing Moss's abiity to assimilate....

Like "can we get this guy motivated and bought in to our system long enough to get some productivity out of him?"

They were defiinitely ahead of the curve....and they are reaping the rewards for it!!!

Yeah plex was lazy but who the hell is Nate Washington gonna scare as the vertical stretcher?


And by the way....for those of you who just just good people, ask yourself, did you cheer for Najeh last sunday? you better not, based on your declared credo....cuz personally, he is very shady right now

coachspeak33
12-13-2007, 01:46 PM
for those of you who just just good people


just root for..........my bad

RoethlisBURGHer
12-13-2007, 02:00 PM
The Patriots got lucky with Randy Moss. He could have been (and can still end up being) a wrecking ball for them. He's bought in and done his part, hasn't flapped his gums to the media, and hasn't done anything outlandish like fake-mooning the crowd after a touchdown catch.

However that old pot smoking, traffic cop running over, taking plays off, squirting refs with water bottles, walking off the field before the game is over Randy Moss can reappear at any time.

I'll take the guys that don't have that type of history.

And as for the Najeh Davenport comments....I am still calling bullshit. I personally don't believe he hit her, unless it was self defense. He refused medical attention and her injuries don't show up until the next day. If anything, he went to try to get her off of him or his kid (whom he had the rights to pick up) and that's how she sustained an injury. This is one of those cases where you wait to see what a judge says and what kind of case, if any, the prosecution can come up with.

4xSBChamps
12-13-2007, 02:12 PM
Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones, and most other NFL Owners made their money outside of football, and bought his way into the game (and there is nothing wrong with that ):
the Rooney's livelihood IS football, and they may-be the town's best-known family, so I doubt they'll be pursuing as-clowns like Turdell Ownself or Short-Arms Moss anytime soon, risking that reputation for the chance to improve their team (nor should they ).

While the experiments with Ownself & Moss 'seem' to be working-out for Dallas & New England, what'll happen when times are tough, and these jerks throw their teammates under the bus (Moss leaving the field/admitting he took plays-off, Ownself smuggly-saying "don't ask me..... 'I' ain't throwing the ball or callin' the plays" , etc. ).

We have a rookie Head Coach, who appears to be a no-nonsense guy, yet relates to today's younger players quite-well:
give him 2 seasons to get his finger on the pulse of the team, and give him a few years of his draft-picks before jumping big-time into the free-agent (cess ) pool.

Keep the malcontents out of the 412 / 724 area-codes.

coachspeak33
12-13-2007, 02:15 PM
The Patriots got lucky with Randy Moss. He could have been (and can still end up being) a wrecking ball for them. He's bought in and done his part, hasn't flapped his gums to the media, and hasn't done anything outlandish like fake-mooning the crowd after a touchdown catch.

However that old pot smoking, traffic cop running over, taking plays off, squirting refs with water bottles, walking off the field before the game is over Randy Moss can reappear at any time.

I'll take the guys that don't have that type of history.

And as for the Najeh Davenport comments....I am still calling bullshit. I personally don't believe he hit her, unless it was self defense. He refused medical attention and her injuries don't show up until the next day. If anything, he went to try to get her off of him or his kid (whom he had the rights to pick up) and that's how she sustained an injury. This is one of those cases where you wait to see what a judge says and what kind of case, if any, the prosecution can come up with.

I see your point on Najeh...and a few weeks ago I wouldnt have even brought it up....but this guy has had run-ins w/ the law, he missed the cincy game in a shady-behind closed doors kinda way, hes no boy scout. better yet, he doesnt follow the principles of the "rooney way"

revefsreleets
12-13-2007, 02:20 PM
And by the way....for those of you who just just good people, ask yourself, did you cheer for Najeh last sunday? you better not, based on your declared credo....cuz personally, he is very shady right now

Najeh Davenport is on this roster for exactly one reason right now: They have no viable alternative. My guess is that Verron Haynes can hardly walk, because they would have cut Davenport in a second if VH could still play at all.

coachspeak33
12-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Najeh Davenport is on this roster for exactly one reason right now: They have no viable alternative. My guess is that Verron Haynes can hardly walk, because they would have cut Davenport in a second if VH could still play at all.

your probably right....he didnt make the roster because of his friendly disposition thats for sure

speaking of disposition....reminds me of g. lloyd's t-shirt....I am not paid for my disposition

Steeler fans, myself included of course, need to temper this attitude that only nice guys play in pittsburgh

Lloyd stuck a gun down his own kids mouth for christsakes.......:dang::dang::dang::dang:

Rhee Rhee
12-13-2007, 06:23 PM
moss wouldnt' be happy in pittsburgh because he wouldn't get the ball. also, he lives on the longball and BR isn't that great at anything beyond 20 or so yards. a couple of games with a single catch or less and he would complain and give up.

whoa remember 2005 when we had plax my gosh ben would lob it 40 yards downfield and plax would catch everything... if we had randy our offense would be very diverse... lol.... i think although the rooney's have been succesful for the past 30 years... the times change a bit... im not saying they become dan snyder of the skins giving money to any FA but i say we need to utilize what the NFL gives us... unless we have 13 or 14 round drafts like we did in the 70's FA is the way of the future... i say we get a couple of big name guys this year...

The Duke
12-13-2007, 06:30 PM
whoa remember 2005 when we had plax my gosh ben would lob it 40 yards downfield and plax would catch everything... if we had randy our offense would be very diverse... lol.... i think although the rooney's have been succesful for the past 30 years... the times change a bit... im not saying they become dan snyder of the skins giving money to any FA but i say we need to utilize what the NFL gives us... unless we have 13 or 14 round drafts like we did in the 70's FA is the way of the future... i say we get a couple of big name guys this year...

yeah....and remember his drops, and his constant bitching. he's a good receiver but he just disappears in big games and complains all the time. he won't be getting any ring in the near future with the giants either

fansince'76
12-13-2007, 06:32 PM
yeah....and remember his drops, and his constant bitching. he's a good receiver but he just disappears in big games and complains all the time. he won't be getting any ring in the near future with the giants either

Exactly. My last (thankfully) memory of Plexiglass was him dropping a TD in the endzone during the '04 AFCCG and then bitching about his role on the team after the game. I said it then, and I say it now - good riddance.

OX1947
12-13-2007, 06:37 PM
I think the Steelers not signing or trading for players is a fallacy. Jerome Bettis was suppose to be a malcontent but they traded a 2nd and 4th rounder for him. The Pats had the money to sign Moss this year. And he is paying off and will continue to pay off. This will not be a one year thing.

moedap
12-13-2007, 06:46 PM
I take a different outlook when it comes to Moss. Moss isnt gangsta or thug. He is hillbilly. W. Va. born hillbilly. If I were the Rooney's I would have brought him a house in W. Va and told him to stay home until its time to play football.

4xSBChamps
12-13-2007, 08:05 PM
whoa remember 2005 when we had plax ...

..... didn't Plexiglass go-away after the '04 season?

Atlanta Dan
12-13-2007, 09:37 PM
I think the Steelers not signing or trading for players is a fallacy. Jerome Bettis was suppose to be a malcontent but they traded a 2nd and 4th rounder for him. The Pats had the money to sign Moss this year. And he is paying off and will continue to pay off. This will not be a one year thing.

Only if they pay - Moss will not be giving any discounts

revefsreleets
12-14-2007, 09:14 AM
My lasting memory of Plex will always be the spike. What a numbskull.

noto45
12-14-2007, 06:16 PM
we have to take chance on guys like him.....

revefsreleets
12-14-2007, 06:16 PM
Here we go again.

tony hipchest
12-15-2007, 01:14 PM
Steelers Q&A with Ed Bouchette
Friday, December 14, 2007
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Q: Here is a 'What if' question for you. What if the Steelers pick up Randy Moss during last off season? Would the Steelers be undefeated this year, instead of the Patriots?

Regis Beighley, Columbus, Ga.

BOUCHETTE: They'd probably have a better record than 9-4. The Patriots gave up a fourth-round draft choice for Moss in a trade. The Steelers traded away their sixth-round draft choice to move higher in the fourth round, then used that higher fourth-round draft choice to get a punter. While the Patriots concentrated on surrounding Tom Brady with more "skilled" talent, the Steelers concentrated on improving their special teams. Moss certainly would have improved the offense by making defenses respect the deep pass more often.


ouch. reality bytes.

as far as the high price of moss, this years salary just about equals that of j. tuman, c. okolbi, and d. kreider combined :dang:

assuming c. wilson was cut it wouldve just cost $3 million to upgrade to moss.

sign moss, cut the dead weight and save $2 mil in the process. it finally puts all the harping bouchette has done on the value of our 4th round pick being spent on a punter in perspective.

moss wouldve been a fine deoderant for everything that ails our offense. with him, hines, heath, santionio, on the field, willie would never see more than 7 in the box, assuming defenses wanted single coverage on the 4 wr/te. double team 2 of the wr and willie sees 5 in the box. who needs a fb?

defenses would have about as tough a time stopping the steelers as they do the patriots.

tthe patriots and dallas have shown great examples of maximizing the value of their picks with their trades to sf and the browns. i'd like to see the steelers get a bit more value on draft day. its not like they need much help though. they did great, trading up for holmes and polamalu.

fansince'76
12-15-2007, 01:18 PM
ouch. reality bytes.

Steelers Q&A with Ed Bouchette
Friday, December 14, 2007
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Q: Here is a 'What if' question for you. What if the Steelers pick up Randy Moss during last off season? Would the Steelers be undefeated this year, instead of the Patriots?

Regis Beighley, Columbus, Ga.

BOUCHETTE: They'd probably have a better record than 9-4. The Patriots gave up a fourth-round draft choice for Moss in a trade. The Steelers traded away their sixth-round draft choice to move higher in the fourth round, then used that higher fourth-round draft choice to get a punter. While the Patriots concentrated on surrounding Tom Brady with more "skilled" talent, the Steelers concentrated on improving their special teams. Moss certainly would have improved the offense by making defenses respect the deep pass more often.

as far as the high price of moss, this years salary just about equals that of j. tuman, c. okolbi, and d. kreider combined :dang:

assuming c. wilson was cut it wouldve just cost $3 million to upgrade to moss.

sign moss, cut the dead weight and save $2 mil in the process. it finally puts all the harping bouchette has done on the value of our 4th round pick being spent on a punter in perspective.

moss wouldve been a fine deoderant for everything that ails our offense. with him, hines, heath, santionio, on the field, willie would never see more than 7 in the box, assuming defenses wanted single coverage on the 4 wr/te. double team 2 of the wr and willie sees 5 in the box. who needs a fb?

defenses would have about as tough a time stopping the steelers as they do the patriots.

tthe patriots and dallas have shown great examples of maximizing the value of their picks with their trades to sf and the browns. i'd like to see the steelers get a bit more value on draft day. its not like they need much help though. they did great, trading up for holmes and polamalu.

I disagree with Bouchette on that one, mainly because Ben doesn't get anywhere near the time that Brady does to go deep. It's easy to throw the deep ball when your OL gives you enough time to have a cup of coffee and read the morning paper before throwing the ball - our OL doesn't. How quickly Bouchette forgets that NE's OL is about 10X better than the sieve of an OL we have.

tony hipchest
12-15-2007, 01:31 PM
I disagree with Bouchette on that one, mainly because Ben doesn't get anywhere near the time that Brady does to go deep. It's easy to throw the deep ball when your OL gives you enough time to have a cup of coffee and read the morning paper before throwing the ball - our OL doesn't. How quickly Bouchette forgets that NE's OL is about 10X better than the sieve of an OL we have.for sure our o-line is blowing chunks, which is why i called moss a deoderant. sacks would immediately go down with willie seeing 5-7 in the box, and ben would not have to wait for moss to get open. defenses would play them differently and make it very simple for ben to almost always make the correct calls and line adjustments. it would dramatically loosen things up at the line of scrimmage. we'd still have areas that needed improvement.

moss over c. wilson wouldve been a nice place to start.

The Duke
12-15-2007, 01:33 PM
My lasting memory of Plex will always be the spike. What a numbskull.

oh you just made me sick to my stomach. I had totally forgotten that

yes, we definitely need a scum like that back :dang: