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HometownGal
12-14-2007, 07:52 AM
Very good read on Ike. :thumbsup:

Taylor solid for Steelers' top-ranked defense
By John Harris

TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, December 14, 2007

The Steelers remain the top-rated defense in the NFL -- No. 2 against the pass, No. 2 against the run. This despite Tom Brady's 399 yards passing and four touchdowns. The handful of defensive mistakes against a New England offense that at one point called 34 consecutive pass plays were costly but correctable.
The same can't be said about the Steelers' free-falling offense -- No. 3 and steady on the ground, but No. 24 and stagnant through the air.

Yet the performance of the Steelers' defense, particularly the play of the secondary, continues to be debated, analyzed and scrutinized -- ad nauseam.

Cornerback Ike Taylor, who has emerged as the Steelers' most indispensable defensive player this season -- indispensable because Steelers cornerbacks are asked to do so much, more than most NFL cornerbacks -- bears the brunt of the responsibility as well as the scorn.

"He's good, but it's hard to rate him because he's in a different type of defense," Cincinnati Bengals receiver Chad Johnson said of Taylor, his chief nemesis among cornerbacks. "A lot of corners that are rated are those that take chances, that take those opportunities to gamble outside of what their system tells them to do. He's a very disciplined corner within the system that he's in."

In a surprise move, Taylor was matched one-on-one against New England's Randy Moss for much of the game, following him from one side of the field to the other. Moss caught seven passes for 135 yards and two touchdowns.

Was Moss' big game Taylor's fault? Well, Taylor was assigned to guard Moss. But in the Steelers' defense, Taylor is responsible for playing the run first. Unfortunately, free safety Anthony Smith also played the run on Moss' 63-yard touchdown catch in the second quarter.

"We are an aggressive defense. As a secondary, we've got to support the run and play the pass,'' said Taylor, who's second on the team with 70 tackles along with a team-high 12 passes defended and two interceptions. "I was in Cover-2. I can jump on the run if I want to, knowing (Smith) is going to be back there and he can play the pass. But when you've got both guys like that (playing the run) -- he's hungry, he's aggressive, he's still got a lot to learn."

At least one observer gave Taylor credit for his effort against the Patriots.

"Ike Taylor did a pretty good job. He was all over Randy Moss when he caught his first pass (for 16 yards)," said CBS announcer and former NFL quarterback Phil Simms, who worked the Steelers-Patriots game. "When they double-teamed Moss once or twice, he definitely didn't get the help he was expecting.''

Taylor said he would play Moss the same way if the teams meet again in the playoffs.

"It's a lot of things ya'll don't see, there's a lot of things ya'll don't know, there's a lot of calls ya'll don't know when we're out there on the field," said Taylor, the top cornerback on the top-rated defense in the league.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/sports/steelers/s_542672.html

Steeldude
12-14-2007, 08:18 AM
you would think lebeau would have some sense and tell taylor to ignore the run. it's not like the patriots were attempting it.

sometimes i wonder if lebeau is getting too old.

revefsreleets
12-14-2007, 08:38 AM
LeBeau is getting old?

My God. Anyway, this is a nice article, and again, explains a lot. If Ike gets caught looking in the backfield, the safety is definitely NOT supposed to be doing the same. I want to call my dog off Ike a little after reading this. The fact that we have CB's playing run first in certain situations is the exact same reason why we have the #1 or #2 run defense in the first place. Just like everything else in LeBeau's very complex defense, when you have a player unexpectantly playing a role (ie Taylor playing run) there has to be another player assuming his regular role (in this case Smith). Smith lacked discipline, got caught peeking in the backfield, didn't have Taylor's back and got smoked.

nicesteel4life
12-14-2007, 08:40 AM
you would think lebeau would have some sense and tell taylor to ignore the run. it's not like the patriots were attempting it.

sometimes i wonder if lebeau is getting too old.

WHAT!

GBMelBlount
12-14-2007, 08:53 AM
Smith lacked discipline, got caught peeking in the backfield, didn't have Taylor's back and got smoked.

Ike's certainly come along way from this time last year. Covering a top receiver like Moss is no easy task and if Smith had done his job on that play, Moss' stats for the game would not have been nearly as impressive.

ShutDown24
12-14-2007, 09:03 AM
Ike is one of the best cover corners in the league. He was becoming a GREAT corner Super Bowl year but then Cowher made him last years scapegoat and he regressed. Ike has looked great all year and is having a Pro Bowl season. He has no hands but hey, that's why he doesn't play receiver (Or running back anymore for that reason).

STEELtownHAVOX
12-14-2007, 09:51 AM
The way I see it, that is a huge coaching mistake. Why would you want to stop the run against the Pats? They stop the run on there own by throwing the ball 40-50 times a game. I understand Ike's discipline, but please change it to pass coverage as the top priority when you're playing these guys. Other than that, go Steelers!

Jman
12-14-2007, 10:28 AM
sometimes i wonder if lebeau is getting too old.

:coffee: I think I must have gotten the last good cup?

Fire Haley
12-14-2007, 10:44 AM
I like Ike.

But that "#1 defense" crap has gone to their heads.....and that "To win you have to run the ball and stop the run" has been exposed as obsolete....at least for this year.

Steeldude
12-14-2007, 12:03 PM
:coffee: I think I must have gotten the last good cup?

so you think he is getting young? hmmm...you sure you received a good cup?

Steeldude
12-14-2007, 12:04 PM
the steelers defense may be #1 or #2 in the NFL, but that doesn't tell the whole story. a cake schedule versus some weak offenses and a few bad weather games help with those stats. the steelers have a good defense, but the high ranking is a little deceiving.

FAB802
12-14-2007, 12:10 PM
I wouldn't say he's too old, but you would think he would be smart enough to stop thinking run when they pass thirty times in a row? My son's flag football coach makes better adjusments than he did on Sunday. It's one game, and he may have been trying not to show his hand for the playoff's. You do have to be sure to get there first though.

revefsreleets
12-14-2007, 12:49 PM
Wow, how many times do we have to cover the same ground? The Steelers did adjust the defense. They got smoked deep so they played softer in the second half and made the Pats play short ball, which they did and did expertly. That's why in the first half they made huge plays, and in the second half they threw short passes to Welker and the like and moved right down the field. They took what we gave them, and unlike the Steelers offense, the Pats actually executed.

Are you guys REALLY second guessing LeBeau now? Has it gotten THAT bad?

FAB802
12-14-2007, 01:07 PM
Wow, how many times do we have to cover the same ground? The Steelers did adjust the defense. They got smoked deep so they played softer in the second half and made the Pats play short ball, which they did and did expertly. That's why in the first half they made huge plays, and in the second half they threw short passes to Welker and the like and moved right down the field. They took what we gave them, and unlike the Steelers offense, the Pats actually executed.

Are you guys REALLY second guessing LeBeau now? Has it gotten THAT bad?

I'm not dogging him out, just questioning the way we went about it in the second half. It's alright to question the team when things don't work. If they are killing you throwing five yard passes you have to bring your corners up. We did not in the second half once it was obvious what they were doing. I understand we got beat deep in the first half, but that wasn't a scheme issue it was an execution issue. We let them dictate the game the entire second half offensively and defensively. That's why we lost as badly as we did. It can be a totally different game come playoff time. We will actually have starter caliber safeties out there to stop the big plays. There was no reason to bite on the run the way they did, that has to fall on the coaches some too. After the first drive he should have pulled them together and said to Hell with stopping the run. Would you rather Maroney get a four yard carry or for Moss to run around uncovered?

I haven't lost faith in our team or the coaches, but anyone who doesn't think they got outcoached Sunday wasn't watching the same game I was. Had we executed on offense it would have been a different game too. Overall we're having about the kind of season I thought we would. The bad losses were unexpected, but we've dominated our division which is a lot more important. We'll win the division, then it's a whole new season. I'm hoping they go undefeated and lose in the playoff's. Talk about funny.

revefsreleets
12-14-2007, 01:12 PM
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. I thought the plan was solid: Run to control the clock, and play good defense. Unfortunately big plays in the first half forced the defense to adjust, and the Pats countered nicely. The offense failed to execute in the second half, and then the game got away from them. I just think it's a cop out to blame the coaches for everything that goes wrong while heaping praise on the players when things go right.

Preacher
12-14-2007, 01:31 PM
The very reason that our CB's play off the WR is because of their run support. That is the BASIS of this defensive team.

It is also the biggest weakness. Teams have learned to throw the ball while the CB's are still trying to ascertain run or pass.

I have often wondered if the Zone blitz is being bypassed. After this year, I have to say no. The Patriots had to pull out trick plays in order to score against us in the second half. That say a whole lot. They were worried.

It also seems to me that we just pulled into a shell after that, almost like we had seen what we needed to see, and didn't want to show anymore to the Pats.

Notice how many time we went over the top on them. Once. ONCE! that is not normal for a Steelers game. We also know that we can make them one dimensional. Now, next time we play them, we know that we can game plan for the passing offense.

I think there will be a big surprise waiting for them in the AFCCG.

FAB802
12-14-2007, 01:36 PM
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. I thought the plan was solid: Run to control the clock, and play good defense. Unfortunately big plays in the first half forced the defense to adjust, and the Pats countered nicely. The offense failed to execute in the second half, and then the game got away from them. I just think it's a cop out to blame the coaches for everything that goes wrong while heaping praise on the players when things go right.

That's fine. We're all just frustrated that we had an opportunity Sunday and execution failed us on some big plays. They don't scare me regardless of Sunday's score. I'm not really blaming anyone specifically. If we get to see them again hopefully we'll have starting caliber safeties on the field, that will help defensively. The fact that I watched the game with a Pats fan didn't help my mood any either. I'm new here, but when we win I never give credit to just the players, and when we lose it's never just the coaches either. It was a team effort losing that game that way, just like it will be if we beat them come playoff time. :cheers:

BuckeyeSteel
12-14-2007, 01:43 PM
Now, next time we play them, we know that we can game plan for the passing offense.


Watch any of the pats games this year and we should have known that already...

HometownGal
12-14-2007, 02:42 PM
so you think he is getting young? hmmm...you sure you received a good cup?

Dick Lebeau is by far the BEST DC in the NFL - bar none. Even at 70 years young. :thumbsup:

Sure the Steelers D gave up 34 points to the Cheats, but our O only scored 13. 13 points against a team like the Pats just aint gonna cut it.

Atlanta Dan
12-14-2007, 08:02 PM
Are you guys REALLY second guessing LeBeau now? Has it gotten THAT bad?

Not yet - check back about 4:30 Sunday afternoon if Jax wins - you will be reading proposals to bring back Ray Sherman, Tim Lewis, Zereoue, and Maddox if that happens

Rhee Rhee
12-14-2007, 08:42 PM
ike = top 5 CB in NFL

anthony smith = top 32 safety in NFL.....

i sometimes wish anthony would go more for the ball than the ginormous hit

tony hipchest
12-14-2007, 09:05 PM
today on chad johnsons weekly spot on sirius, adam schein commented how he would be facing one of the best CB's in the league on saturday (nate clements), and asked him to name who else he thought were the best.

champ bailey
deangello hall
charles woodson
al harris
nmamdi asomguah (sp?) :chuckle:
dre bly
asanti samuel (although it took some prodding and he pretty much called him a "system cb"

:blah:

i was almost waiting for him to give ike some props, but then i remembered ike completely owns his ass. :moon: :whip:

The Duke
12-14-2007, 09:16 PM
So CJ think D Hall is one of the best. bungles are sometimes is so smart.......

can't believe he didn't mention ike after he has left him without a td over 2 or 3 consecutive seasons

GBMelBlount
12-14-2007, 09:33 PM
So CJ think D Hall is one of the best. bungles are sometimes is so smart.......

can't believe he didn't mention ike after he has left him without a td over 2 or 3 consecutive seasons


Actually at the very end I thought I heard him quickly grunt "and Fike Fayflor" but they couldn't understand what he said because his two front teef had fallen out. :hunch:

jjpro11
12-14-2007, 09:37 PM
today on chad johnsons weekly spot on sirius, adam schein commented how he would be facing one of the best CB's in the league on saturday (nate clements), and asked him to name who else he thought were the best.

champ bailey
deangello hall
charles woodson
al harris
nmamdi asomguah (sp?) :chuckle:
dre bly
asanti samuel (although it took some prodding and he pretty much called him a "system cb"

:blah:

i was almost waiting for him to give ike some props, but then i remembered ike completely owns his ass. :moon: :whip:

haha.. chad should be praising ike every chance he gets.. if ike is so terrible, then chad shouldnt be in the nfl because ike owns him every time.

HometownGal
12-14-2007, 09:53 PM
Actually at the very end I thought I heard him quickly grunt "and Fike Fayflor" but they couldn't understand what he said because his two front teef had fallen out. :hunch:

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

http://www.jtf.org/america/ppp.09152004.black.crime.marion.barry.supporter.fu ll.face.gape.jpg

Steeldude
12-14-2007, 11:00 PM
Wow, how many times do we have to cover the same ground? The Steelers did adjust the defense. They got smoked deep so they played softer in the second half and made the Pats play short ball, which they did and did expertly. That's why in the first half they made huge plays, and in the second half they threw short passes to Welker and the like and moved right down the field. They took what we gave them, and unlike the Steelers offense, the Pats actually executed.

Are you guys REALLY second guessing LeBeau now? Has it gotten THAT bad?

rev, we all can't be lemmings. if we were then noll would still be here. i preferred dom capers over lebeau. capers was a lot more aggressive. this isn't to say that lebeau should be let go. he is fine, but at times he looks complacent with his defense/plan. like cowher was last year, lebeau could be getting burned out too. it's just speculation on a steelers' forum. also, i meant the zone blitz with lebeau may be getting old at times. the zone blitz is no longer an unknown defense.

you are right, they made the pats play short and the DBs lined up deep. all of this against a 3-step QB drop. the results were such things as welker catching 5 passes in a row on nearly the same route.

Steeldude
12-14-2007, 11:08 PM
Not yet - check back about 4:30 Sunday afternoon if Jax wins - you will be reading proposals to bring back Ray Sherman, Tim Lewis, Zereoue, and Maddox if that happens


what if capers was available? :smile:

i don't see lebeau staying many more seasons.

NateC
12-15-2007, 05:10 AM
what if capers was available? :smile:

i don't see lebeau staying many more seasons.


If Joey Pa Can HC Wiley College Kids into his 80's...
Ill give Dicky Beau as long as he feels he is able to bring positive's to the Table.

My Father Retired at 63, He is not happy not working.
If your body and mind are good, and you wanna keep yourself occupied, Praise God, Im happy to have him...

geo123
12-15-2007, 05:55 AM
[Sure the Steelers D gave up 34 points to the Cheats, but our O only scored 13. 13 points against a team like the Pats just aint gonna cut it.[/QUOTE]


I couldn't agree more!!! The scoring has off as of late, the Jags have scored 35, 25and 36 in their last three games. We'll need to put some points up on Sunday.

Galax Steeler
12-15-2007, 06:53 AM
We left alot on the table in that game our corners played them the best they could but our offense fell short of scoring on several occaisions.

Atlanta Dan
12-15-2007, 07:28 AM
what if capers was available? :smile:

i don't see lebeau staying many more seasons.

I will assume you are being sarcastic - Capers has bombed out of 2 HC jobs and currently is DC for the Dolphins :jawdrop:

Teams do not win by hiring retreads

Steeldude
12-15-2007, 10:22 AM
I will assume you are being sarcastic - Capers has bombed out of 2 HC jobs and currently is DC for the Dolphins :jawdrop:

Teams do not win by hiring retreads

who said anything about capers as the HC? :dang:

if i remember correctly, lebeau bombed as HC for the bengals. also, capers received two expansion teams with both of those HC jobs. you are right, he did poorly as a HC. he did manage the playoffs in his second season with the panthers going 1-1 in that post-season. as a HC capers' winning % was 0.375 lifetime, lebeau's was 0.267

lebeau is a retread. what was that you were saying about retreads?

what exactly does capers have to work with in miami?

capers? initial season heading up the dolphins? defense in 2006, the unit allowed an average of 289.1 yards per contest, as they ranked No. 4 in overall defense in the NFL, a 14-spot improvement from the previous season. they also ranked fifth in points allowed (283) and third in total sacks (47).

capers was named defensive coordinator with the jacksonville jaguars in 1999, and manned that spot for the next two years. under capers, the jaguars ranked fourth in the NFL in total defense in his first season there, a 21-spot improvement from the previous year. jacksonville also led the NFL in scoring defense that year (13.6 ppg), set club records for sacks (57) and interceptions (19), and equaled the team mark for takeaways (30).

nobody is saying cut lebeau and go after capers.

Atlanta Dan
12-15-2007, 12:04 PM
who said anything about capers as the HC? :dang:

if i remember correctly, lebeau bombed as HC for the bengals. also, capers received two expansion teams with both of those HC jobs. you are right, he did poorly as a HC. he did manage the playoffs in his second season with the panthers going 1-1 in that post-season. as a HC capers' winning % was 0.375 lifetime, lebeau's was 0.267

lebeau is a retread. what was that you were saying about retreads?

what exactly does capers have to work with in miami?

capers? initial season heading up the dolphins? defense in 2006, the unit allowed an average of 289.1 yards per contest, as they ranked No. 4 in overall defense in the NFL, a 14-spot improvement from the previous season. they also ranked fifth in points allowed (283) and third in total sacks (47).

capers was named defensive coordinator with the jacksonville jaguars in 1999, and manned that spot for the next two years. under capers, the jaguars ranked fourth in the NFL in total defense in his first season there, a 21-spot improvement from the previous year. jacksonville also led the NFL in scoring defense that year (13.6 ppg), set club records for sacks (57) and interceptions (19), and equaled the team mark for takeaways (30).

nobody is saying cut lebeau and go after capers.

I assumed you were talking about Capers as DC.

LeBeau left the Bills to come back to Pittsburgh on his own - if Capers was available it would be because the Dolphins fired him (the Rooneys will not pay what Capers is getting in Miami) - so if he was available Capers would be a retread.

I do not follow your support for Capers based on references to stats - going into New England the Steelers were #1 statistically across the board defensively, so if that is your measuring stick nobody is doing a better job than LeBeau this year (I am not agreeing stats settle everything, just pointing out that is a double edged sword regarding your arguents).

As far as Capers not having any talent in Miami, LeBeau went into New England with 2 backup safeties and one of his best defenders (Aaron Smith) playing the game with one arm - it is not as if LeBeau is coaching up the 76 Steelers defense.

You also express concern about the zone blitz concept wearing down - if that is the case, why would you want to bring in Capers, who also is regarded as a zone blitz specialist.

Regardless of what we think about Capers, he is not coming here - Tomlin will have done the mentoring drill with LeBeau and will be bringing in some young rising star position coach as his next DC to start building his own coaching family.

:cheers:

Jman
12-15-2007, 06:36 PM
so you think he is getting young? hmmm...you sure you received a good cup?

I don't want to cause any issues, but come on - Dick Lebeau is considered a defensive genius. Many believe he should already be in the HOF. My opinion as well. :tt02:

revefsreleets
12-15-2007, 06:38 PM
Serenity now.

Now I'm a lemming? And for just pointing out the obvious facts, which apparently aren't so obvious to some.

I give up. You guys have all the answers, and I'm sure you'll all be running NFL offenses and defense soon.

Steeldude
12-15-2007, 07:54 PM
Serenity now.

Now I'm a lemming? And for just pointing out the obvious facts, which apparently aren't so obvious to some.

I give up. You guys have all the answers, and I'm sure you'll all be running NFL offenses and defense soon.

rev, getting bothered again because people have opinions and thoughts that differ from your own? actually, it doesn't seem like you have any thoughts of your own. you just agree with whatever the coaches do.

why exactly do you participate in this forum? if we were all like you we would type "steelers are great. they can do no wrong" over and over again. can you imagine how boring this forum would be if everyone was a mindless automaton?