PDA

View Full Version : Handling of Pats? Tapes Raises Questions


Atlanta Dan
12-15-2007, 03:13 PM
At least if the Pats win it all they will continue to be portrayed as crooks by the media while doing it.

Here is the latest from The New York Times (excerpts and link) - any Pats fan who wants to flame away, bring it on - your team is loathsome.

N.F.L.?s Handling of Patriots? Tapes Is Beginning to Raise Questions

The N.F.L. reacted swiftly when the Spygate mess surfaced in September. Commissioner Roger Goodell promised on national television that there would be a full investigation of the New England Patriots? covert filming of Jets defensive signals. He ordered the Patriots to send any videotapes filmed in violation of N.F.L. rules to the league office....

Two crisis-management experts used the same word ? fishy ? to describe the league?s handling of the situation, saying the destruction of the tapes raised questions about what they contained....

?The strategy is profoundly bad,? said Al Tortorella, the managing director of crisis management for Los Angeles-based Ogilvy Public Relations Worldwide. ?I don?t know why they would destroy the tapes. That?s astounding. There?s no criminality here, but it sure doesn?t pass the smell test.?

Questions remain: How many tapes showed evidence of cheating? In what games? In the playoffs? In the Super Bowl? By other teams?...

?Roger Goodell learned what Richard Nixon did not,? Tortorella said. ?If the tapes are destroyed, you keep your job.?...

The N.F.L. said the Patriots signed a statement that the league was in possession of the only copies of the evidence, all of which have been destroyed. Tortorella said they should not be so sure.

?That might come back to haunt them,? he said. ?I know this: nobody ever makes one Xerox copy. Nobody ever makes one tape. Nobody ever makes one set of anything. Based on that, I?m not sure this crisis is over yet.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/sports/football/16spy.html

This quote sums it all up Pats fans

?Spygate will be the biggest story if they win the Super Bowl.?

Nobody likes a cheater:flap:

fansince'76
12-15-2007, 03:22 PM
I've echoed the same sentiments myself recently. Of course, I'm just being jealous. :rolleyes:

The league investigation into this matter was a complete whitewash, and I came away thinking that Goodell is nothing more than a lapdog of Kraft's and that he wanted to sweep the whole thing under the rug more than anything else. The "penalty" was a joke as well. They destroyed the materials that the Patriots handed over without any sort of independent review. Not only that, they took the Pats' word for it that they surrendered all the necessary materials. Sorry, but something stinks in Denmark to me.

HometownGal
12-15-2007, 04:18 PM
“Spygate will be the biggest story if they win the Super Bowl.”


If the Cheatriots do win the SB (which I don't believe they will), no one outside of their organization and bandwagon hoppin' fan base will remember them as champs. They'll always be remembered as chumps* and cheats.

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 04:53 PM
Two crisis-management experts used the same word ? fishy ? to describe the league?s handling of the situation, saying the destruction of the tapes raised questions about what they contained....


How can you be suspicious of what they contained when the video has already been leaked to Fox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9jXpxMivY

Lok1GT
12-15-2007, 05:28 PM
Questions remain: How many tapes showed evidence of cheating? In what games? In the playoffs? In the Super Bowl? By other teams?...

That's why.
Just because Fox showed one 30 second clip does not mean that this was the only taping.

MACH1
12-15-2007, 05:39 PM
They should hammer one of these on everything they have won with belicheat.

http://www.beaducation.com/shop/images/small-asteric.jpg

Atlanta Dan
12-15-2007, 05:47 PM
How can you be suspicious of what they contained when the video has already been leaked to Fox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9jXpxMivY

My point is it is not just "jealous" fans - anyone who has prosecuted an obstruction of justice case knows what conclusion to draw when evidence is destroyed preemptively

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 06:25 PM
My point is it is not just "jealous" fans - anyone who has prosecuted an obstruction of justice case knows what conclusion to draw when evidence is destroyed preemptively

Yeah but jealousy is a factor. I'll always be jealous of the yankees whether or not I want to admit it. It's part of human nature. I mean, if Miami got caught cheating against Denver in week one, I'm sure it would have been met with the same repulsion but the subject would have died down by now, except for the occasional taunting by Patriots fans. I don't see any hot topics about Falcons fans defending dogfighting. I don't see anybody here angry with Petrino for hopping ship. Why? Because they're not winning like the Patriots.

MACH1
12-15-2007, 06:35 PM
Yeah but jealousy is a factor. I'll always be jealous of the yankees whether or not I want to admit it. It's part of human nature. I mean, if Miami got caught cheating against Denver in week one, I'm sure it would have been met with the same repulsion but the subject would have died down by now, except for the occasional taunting by Patriots fans. I don't see any hot topics about Falcons fans defending dogfighting. I don't see anybody here angry with Petrino for hopping ship. Why? Because they're not winning like the Patriots.

Ummmm......Doesn't cheating help you win like the pats. :dang:

Crushzilla
12-15-2007, 06:37 PM
Yeah but jealousy is a factor. I'll always be jealous of the yankees whether or not I want to admit it. It's part of human nature. I mean, if Miami got caught cheating against Denver in week one, I'm sure it would have been met with the same repulsion but the subject would have died down by now, except for the occasional taunting by Patriots fans. I don't see any hot topics about Falcons fans defending dogfighting. I don't see anybody here angry with Petrino for hopping ship. Why? Because they're not winning like the Patriots.

That's the issue.

They ARE winning, because of suspicious behavior.

Mike Vick and Bobby Petrino's actions aren't giving them an unfair advantage against the rest of the league.

You expect the rest of the league to sit back and let the Patriots cheat themselves to the top prize in football?

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 06:43 PM
They should hammer one of these on everything they have won with belicheat.

*
Either stricken Bonds and Belichick from the record books or let the records stand. Don't halfass it with a stupid little star. Who even came up with the asterisk? In liturature it's just meant to emphasize the importance of a word. If your gonna pick a random symbol why not atleast make it interesting.
Ξ Θ Ђ җ ζ φ
I mean, what about these guys? They're all in common text.

Steelers fans are boring.

Crushzilla
12-15-2007, 06:51 PM
*
Either stricken Bonds and Belichick from the record books or let the records stand. Don't halfass it with a stupid little star. Who even came up with the asterisk? In liturature it's just meant to emphasize the importance of a word. If your gonna pick a random symbol why not atleast make it interesting.
Ξ Θ Ђ җ ζ φ
I mean, what about these guys? They're all in common text.

Steelers fans are boring.

I guess football is pretty boring when you don't cheat to win and run up the score.

What's the point of playing the game? :coffee:

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 06:52 PM
That's the issue.

They ARE winning, because of suspicious behavior.

Mike Vick and Bobby Petrino's actions aren't giving them an unfair advantage against the rest of the league.

You expect the rest of the league to sit back and let the Patriots cheat themselves to the top prize in football?

Don't think that spygate doesn't bother Pats fans. It's trully our worst nightmare. Going 16-0 and then getting blown out in the playoffs, that's just disappointing. Belichick getting caught cheating again would liturally crush me. I'm not even kidding. I've woken up to that thought in the night before, believe me. Everybody claims they're a fan of the game and a defender of integrity but I get the feeling, and I'm not syaing it's you guys, that alot of people are secretly routing for that just to happen.

Crushzilla
12-15-2007, 07:01 PM
Don't think that spygate doesn't bother Pats fans. It's trully our worst nightmare. Going 16-0 and then getting blown out in the playoffs, that's just disappointing. Belichick getting caught cheating again would liturally crush me. I'm not even kidding. I've woken up to that thought in the night before, believe me. Everybody claims they're a fan of the game and a defender of integrity but I get the feeling, and I'm not syaing it's you guys, that alot of people are secretly routing for that just to happen.

If the Patriots are still cheating then YES, I want that to happen.

Regardless, of course I want them to lose in the playoffs.

Its impossible to deny that the Patriots, in the past decade, have become one of our larger rivals.

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 07:05 PM
I guess football is pretty boring when you don't cheat to win and run up the score.

What's the point of playing the game? :coffee:

Now look, I didn't cheat. My team did. And 'my team' is determined by the area I grew up in, as is yours, so you are just as susceptible as I. If you believe you would have handled my situation in a better manner then I congratulate you but I was a fan of this team before Brady and Belichick and I plan on being a fan of this team after Brady and Belichick, and no one guy, no matter how twisted and evil he may be, will ever make me hop ship.

revefsreleets
12-15-2007, 07:12 PM
*
Either stricken Bonds and Belichick from the record books or let the records stand. Don't halfass it with a stupid little star. Who even came up with the asterisk? In liturature it's just meant to emphasize the importance of a word. If your gonna pick a random symbol why not atleast make it interesting.
Ξ Θ Ђ җ ζ φ
I mean, what about these guys? They're all in common text.

Steelers fans are boring.
Wh-wh-what? First off, what is liturature? Do you mean literature? And that is NOT what an asterisk is used for. I don't believe there is a common use of an asterisk in literature, but it is used to indicate a footnote. But I digress.

Here is why fans of opposing teams are outraged at the Patriots cheating. I'll use an example. A criminal gets pulled over, and he has some drugs and a gun on him. He's arrested and charged with drug possession and possessing an illegal firearm. He gets 1 year, and since it's his first, the sentence is suspended. BUT, the guy doesn't have a job. He's driving around in a brand new car. He has a house. He's got several thousand dollars of clothing on. Everyone knows the guy is a career criminal, but he only got CAUGHT committing those two crimes. All the evidence points to this guy literally committing crime after crime after crime, maybe even daily, and probably worse than what he was busted for, but he can only be charged for what he was caught for.

See? Once the Pats got caught, all the other stories look far more ominous and dark. Just how DID this guy who couldn't coach his way out of a bag in Cleveland suddenly take mediocre talent and win Super Bowls? Just how DID that criminal afford a new car and a house and all that stuff with no source of income? Monitoring radio signals? Stealing playbooks? Why not? It's all the same thing, really.

But it's cute that the Pats, like Jim Jones faithful, are "true believers". Jonestown turned out not so good for them.

Atlanta Dan
12-15-2007, 07:19 PM
Yeah but jealousy is a factor. I'll always be jealous of the yankees whether or not I want to admit it. It's part of human nature. I mean, if Miami got caught cheating against Denver in week one, I'm sure it would have been met with the same repulsion but the subject would have died down by now, except for the occasional taunting by Patriots fans. I don't see any hot topics about Falcons fans defending dogfighting. I don't see anybody here angry with Petrino for hopping ship. Why? Because they're not winning like the Patriots.

Vick and Petrino are scumbags but what they did was not directly related to compromising the integrity of the competitive process.

And other teams (believe it or not) have been as successful as the Pats (not only the 70s Steelers but the 60s Packers and 80s 49ers as well). But those teams were not despised as the Pats are = in fact Korneiser and Jaworski said during the MNF broadcast of the Steelers 75th anniversary salute that fans actually liked the 70s Steelers (a not particularly subtle comparison to guess who). The difference - your team cheated and got caught.

In closing, thanks for telling me the real reasons for why I hate the Pats and that if I do not admit why it is because you know better than me what really is the basis for my opinions - the idea Pats fans know what other fans think is typical of the arrogance that infests the team and its fan base.

Mosca
12-15-2007, 07:30 PM
To me, this is similar to if the Clinton or Nixon investigations had gone down like, "We have investigated the matter, the President has said he didn't do it, we believe him and the matter is closed. Since there was nothing of note in the evidence, we destroyed it, and we can all now move on with our wonderful lives, confident that everything is now OK."

Not really very confidence inspiring, is it?

The Pats would have been a lot better off if there had been an investigation, because now it looks like a cover up.

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 07:38 PM
^
That's a good example but here's my argument:
Let's go back to 2004 when the Patriots beat the Steelers in the AFC championship since Gerome Beddis made the point that they could have had the edge. In week 8 the steelers won 34-20 but then the Patriots won 41-27 in the playoffs. So one could speculate that the Patriots filmed the coaching signals in week 8 and used them to their advantage in the playoffs. If the Pats were at home, they could hide a camera anywhere with unlimited possibilites but since both games were away the cameraman would have had to been out on the field. With all the networks that were broadcasting that game and with all the footage, someone would have to had picked the guy up at some point. It mystifies me how the Patriots were able to lug a camera into Jets stadium unnoticed in the first place but if you really wanted to prove that it wasn't an isolated incident somebody has to go back and look through all the footage. I guarantee that if he was there he would be captured on film atleast once. I don't think there is any part of the field that isn't on camera in today's NFL games. That's my opinion.

Mosca
12-15-2007, 07:43 PM
Don't think that spygate doesn't bother Pats fans. It's trully our worst nightmare. Going 16-0 and then getting blown out in the playoffs, that's just disappointing. Belichick getting caught cheating again would liturally crush me. I'm not even kidding. I've woken up to that thought in the night before, believe me. Everybody claims they're a fan of the game and a defender of integrity but I get the feeling, and I'm not syaing it's you guys, that alot of people are secretly routing for that just to happen.

Seriously, I believe you. Not as Steelers vs Pats, but as fan to fan, it stings.

So, don't you think maybe because we know it gets your goat a bit, it's fun to tweak you? I mean, obviously we can't tweak you because your team sucks, so we have to find a different way.

The part that makes it really fun is that we really DON'T know what is on those tapes. So when fans around the league speculate that it shows cheating in the Super Bowl victories, it's believable. When we speculate that the Pats kept copies of the tapes, it's believable; I mean, how can you trust a cheater to give up all the evidence? You can't. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't.

And now maybe you can understand why even fans who were previously indifferent to the Pats (like me) have turned against them.

So go ahead; roll to victory. Win them all. I don't care. I don't trust your team. I don't trust that they won fair and square, and I don't trust that they've stopped cheating.

And the worst part about them cheating is that just like Bonds, they didn't have to. But they're a bunch of greedy pricks who aren't satisfied to be talented; they have to cheat. I bet Belichick has the blanks secretly marked on his Scrabble set. I bet he has to be the banker when he plays Monopoly. I bet he palms the aces when you play poker against him.

Screw 'em. We know the truth. I don't give a crap about the asterisk, all that matters is that we know, and we can tell our children, and the stories will live on in the literature of the game. The record books can be whatever they will be, but the story will now be that the record books contain lies.

MACH1
12-15-2007, 07:54 PM
*
Either stricken Bonds and Belichick from the record books or let the records stand. Don't halfass it with a stupid little star. Who even came up with the asterisk? In liturature it's just meant to emphasize the importance of a word. If your gonna pick a random symbol why not atleast make it interesting.
Ξ Θ Ђ җ ζ φ
I mean, what about these guys? They're all in common text.

Steelers fans are boring.


How bout this one?
http://arted.osu.edu/160/images/80mus/pri_logo.gif

Naaaa.I still like this one......*

revefsreleets
12-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Actually, this just occurred to me. The criminal in my scenario really doesn't care one way or another, does he? He leads a life of crime, and it pays! He got caught once, but nobody took anything away from him. Why stop? He's beating the system. It's probably addictive. He may even rationalize that he deserves everything he has, regardless of how it was acquired.

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 08:18 PM
Seriously, I believe you. Not as Steelers vs Pats, but as fan to fan, it stings.

So, don't you think maybe because we know it gets your goat a bit, it's fun to tweak you? I mean, obviously we can't tweak you because your team sucks, so we have to find a different way.

The part that makes it really fun is that we really DON'T know what is on those tapes. So when fans around the league speculate that it shows cheating in the Super Bowl victories, it's believable. When we speculate that the Pats kept copies of the tapes, it's believable; I mean, how can you trust a cheater to give up all the evidence? You can't. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't.

And now maybe you can understand why even fans who were previously indifferent to the Pats (like me) have turned against them.

So go ahead; roll to victory. Win them all. I don't care. I don't trust your team. I don't trust that they won fair and square, and I don't trust that they've stopped cheating.

And the worst part about them cheating is that just like Bonds, they didn't have to. But they're a bunch of greedy pricks who aren't satisfied to be talented; they have to cheat. I bet Belichick has the blanks secretly marked on his Scrabble set. I bet he has to be the banker when he plays Monopoly. I bet he palms the aces when you play poker against him.

Screw 'em. We know the truth. I don't give a crap about the asterisk, all that matters is that we know, and we can tell our children, and the stories will live on in the literature of the game. The record books can be whatever they will be, but the story will now be that the record books contain lies.

Well that post turned hostile pretty quickly.

But seriously, if Belichick is still cheating and gets caught again I'd be the first one down to Foxborro to kick his teeth in. Why? Because he would have cheated you much less than he would have cheated me. Belichick gave us something I never thought we'd ever have. Growing up it was always Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Packers and that's how I always expected it to be. Then this happened. Our 199th pick ended up being a superman and we won three Superbowls. It was amazing. It still is amazing. But then I would learn that it wasn't real. That it all was a lie and I was just living a dream because somebody wanted my money. And that would be unforgivable. I hope to God that day never comes.

Fortunately, this incident may have been enough to convince you but I still believe.

And we're also undefeated so that's always a perk.

Jman
12-15-2007, 08:21 PM
Let's go back to 2004 when the Patriots beat the Steelers in the AFC championship since Gerome Beddis made the point that they could have had the edge.

It's Jerome Bettis. :thumbsup:

The Patriot
12-15-2007, 08:48 PM
It's Jerome Bettis. :thumbsup:

I'll log that one away next to polamalula and rothlesburger :wink02:

Mosca
12-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Well that post turned hostile pretty quickly.

But seriously, if Belichick is still cheating and gets caught again I'd be the first one down to Foxborro to kick his teeth in. Why? Because he would have cheated you much less than he would have cheated me. Belichick gave us something I never thought we'd ever have. Growing up it was always Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Packers and that's how I always expected it to be. Then this happened. Our 199th pick ended up being a superman and we won three Superbowls. It was amazing. It still is amazing. But then I would learn that it wasn't real. That it all was a lie and I was just living a dream because somebody wanted my money. And that would be unforgivable. I hope to God that day never comes.

Fortunately, this incident may have been enough to convince you but I still believe.

And we're also undefeated so that's always a perk.

There's not any hostility towards you; I sympathize with you, but not your team. I harbor no ill will towards a fellow fan of any team. Being a devoted fan is cool.

You guys had some kick-ass teams in the mid '70s, btw.

Atlanta Dan
12-15-2007, 10:20 PM
To me, this is similar to if the Clinton or Nixon investigations had gone down like, "We have investigated the matter, the President has said he didn't do it, we believe him and the matter is closed. Since there was nothing of note in the evidence, we destroyed it, and we can all now move on with our wonderful lives, confident that everything is now OK." .

So Spygate is like Iran-Contra?:smile:

Mosca
12-15-2007, 10:26 PM
Well I was going to say OJ, but...

fansince'76
12-15-2007, 10:28 PM
So Spygate is like Iran-Contra?:smile:

I don't recall....:chuckle:

Haiku_Dirtt
12-17-2007, 04:29 AM
Maybe someone should contact Mr. Mitchell and have him investigate!

That would resemble a would-be Attorney General Janet Reno 'mitigating' a would-be troublesome Waco, TX compound for alleged crime. Hmmm. How does that end?

But what better way to distance the NFL from NEEDLEGATE then to bring SPYGATE upon "America's team." Show the world your vehicular moving violations so they don't look at your taxes.

As AMERICA moves away from hormones in our food isn't time to get them out of our children too. ALL empires fall. Synthetic games are already digital. Actors just like athletes can be substituted if the entertainment value can be replaced.

SteelersMongol
12-18-2007, 09:45 AM
...Let's go back to 2004 when the Patriots beat the Steelers in the AFC championship since Gerome Beddis made the point that they could have had the edge...

G Who? :dang: Now it's you who needs 2 b kicked in the face!!! :bash:

stlrtruck
12-18-2007, 11:21 AM
This has no longer come to be about the patria-cheats and what they do. The ENTIRE NFL fans, coaches, owners, and refs know that they cheated.

What this is about now is how Goodell has blown an opportunity to be as strict about the integrity of the game as he was with the players. Instead of continuing with his line of strict punishment, he pushed it under the rug? Why? Who knows? One can only fathom that supposedly he may be in bed with Kraft.

Regardless of what Roger does the rest of his years in the NFL as a commissioner, this one will hang over his head. There are issues here that are unresolved from an "integrity of the game" stand point.

As far as it being an isolated incident, that's got to be the most far-fetched idea I've heard so far. When a former coach is calling you out on it, that proves that it's been done more than once and probably consistantly over the last several years!

I just wish I could get in on the NFL's conspiracies so I could make some money!!!!

rbryan
12-18-2007, 11:57 AM
Well that post turned hostile pretty quickly.

But seriously, if Belichick is still cheating and gets caught again I'd be the first one down to Foxborro to kick his teeth in. Why? Because he would have cheated you much less than he would have cheated me. Belichick gave us something I never thought we'd ever have. Growing up it was always Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Packers and that's how I always expected it to be. Then this happened. Our 199th pick ended up being a superman and we won three Superbowls. It was amazing. It still is amazing. But then I would learn that it wasn't real. That it all was a lie and I was just living a dream because somebody wanted my money. And that would be unforgivable. I hope to God that day never comes.

Fortunately, this incident may have been enough to convince you but I still believe.

And we're also undefeated so that's always a perk.

So you're going to be REALLY mad if he gets caught again??? Thats comforting, at least theres one person in NE with half a conscience. The rest of your fan base can go jump in Boston Harbour for all I care. Anyone who would still be proud of whats happening in Cheaterville has no character at all.

jjpro11
12-18-2007, 12:26 PM
the pats are scumbags.. they are never going to be a respected dynasty like the steelers, 49ers and cowboys were.. pats fans can enjoy it all they want.. but everybody else that follows the nfl knows they are crooks.

MasterOfPuppets
12-18-2007, 03:03 PM
But seriously, if Belichick is still cheating and gets caught again I'd be the first one down to Foxborro to kick his teeth in. Why? Because he would have cheated you much less than he would have cheated me. Belichick gave us something I never thought we'd ever have. Growing up it was always Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Packers and that's how I always expected it to be. Then this happened. Our 199th pick ended up being a superman and we won three Superbowls. It was amazing. It still is amazing. But then I would learn that it wasn't real. That it all was a lie and I was just living a dream because somebody wanted my money. And that would be unforgivable. I hope to God that day never comes.

Fortunately, this incident may have been enough to convince you but I still believe.

And we're also undefeated so that's always a perk.ummmmm....duh.
thats like saying....well my wife cheated on me once, but if she does it again...then i'll know she has no love or respect for me........you = :bricks:

Preacher
12-18-2007, 03:59 PM
Let me state it this way.

If the Steelers were caught doing the same thing... I would call for Cowher's (since he was coaching at the time) or Tomlin's resignation immediately. I would also refuse to give a dime to anything dealing with the Steelers until then. I also would not be defending them anywhere on any board.

It is a matter of integrity. Not the teams, MINE. I cannot support a team or a coach is diametrically opposed to my system of belief.

What worries me, is every Pat fan I have heard or met has defended him to the hilt. It is no wonder our country is going where it is, because we can turn a blind eye to such things when the result is enjoyable for us.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 04:06 PM
What worries me, is every Pat fan I have heard or met has defended him to the hilt. It is no wonder our country is going where it is, because we can turn a blind eye to such things when the result is enjoyable for us.

At least it's not dogfighting

TroysBadDawg
12-19-2007, 06:38 PM
Now look, I didn't cheat. My team did. And 'my team' is determined by the area I grew up in, as is yours, so you are just as susceptible as I. If you believe you would have handled my situation in a better manner then I congratulate you but I was a fan of this team before Brady and Belichick and I plan on being a fan of this team after Brady and Belichick, and no one guy, no matter how twisted and evil he may be, will ever make me hop ship.

Well spoken, you did not do the cheating, unless of course, you were the camera man.

If you are defending the cheating then shame on you, if not you have nothing to defend and they have nothing to say but that you are a fan and nothing more. I am a fan of the Browns. Yes I know what they say about the Browns, I hear it here a lot, but as much lately. It comes with the territory being on a Steelers board.

Some will pick, some will let you slide, some will take up your side, and others will ignore you. It is life on the internet, you’re a faceless lifeless entity, letters appearing on a screen, nothing more, until the letters start to take on a personality and they get to know you as a person.

So rest easy football fan, Christmas is almost here, if you were good Santa will bring you something nice, if you were bad he may bring you something better (I didn’t say that.) I want a Harley, wife says NO WAY! I tried to be as bad as I could be too. I told her I would settle for a cheerleader, that is when she hit me with a frying pan up along side my head. I may be hearing funny for a while now, until the birds clear out of my head.