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View Full Version : Who should be the next U.S. President?


Elvis
12-16-2007, 08:42 AM
:coffee:
Here we go again... I know that is what you are saying about seeing me start another thread.
This subject is just opinions and I know that all of us will have different views. I am Not Completely decided on who I am for sure gonna vote for. So, lets hear what everyone thinks about this matter.
Please, lets keep this clean as possible understanding that everyone has their own beliefs and thoughts..

Cape Cod Steel Head
12-16-2007, 08:52 AM
I like John Edwards.

HometownGal
12-16-2007, 08:56 AM
I'm undecided at this point who I'm going to back. I'm leaning towards Guiliani, but I know more who I'm NOT going to vote for.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/8/L/hillary_funny.jpg

TackleMeBen
12-16-2007, 09:00 AM
I'm undecided at this point who I'm going to back. I'm leaning towards Guiliani, but I know more who I'm NOT going to vote for.


http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/8/L/hillary_funny.jpg


that picture is too funny...:sofunny: i am think i am with you HTG i am leaning towards guillani(but i am a republican..lol)

HometownGal
12-16-2007, 09:30 AM
that picture is too funny...:sofunny: i am think i am with you HTG i am leaning towards guillani(but i am a republican..lol)

I'm a GOP'er, too, but I vote person, not party. I like Rudy and a lot of his views. The only thing I'm not totally in line with Rudy on is abortion. I am 100% pro-life. :thumbsup:

I am going to take a hard look at John Edwards. Even though he was Kerry's (blech) running mate the last time around, he is a very intelligent guy with some pretty good ideas.

Here is a good link on the candidates and their platforms to-date:

http://www.nationalplatforms.com/

stillers4me
12-16-2007, 09:44 AM
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!!!!!!!!

I'm also pro life......but as far a a presidential candidate is concerned, I feel it makes no difference. A president can't change the law because of his personal views. National security is a bigger issue for me. It is all moot if we are forced to wear burkas.

Borski
12-16-2007, 10:11 AM
CHUCK NORRIS!!!

no, really I kinda like Romney and Huckabee but its way too early to make a decision right now, I'll wait and see how things play out for all the candidates first.

I'm not really liking Rudy Guillani, I feel he is only running off of 9/11 and is just exploiting it. I'm pretty much a republicans but I consider myself to vote for the person, not the party but its usually the republicans that I support. One candident the I will never vote for is Clinton

fansince'76
12-16-2007, 10:38 AM
I like Richardson and McCain, but we'll see who actually gets nominated.

tony hipchest
12-16-2007, 10:48 AM
I like Richardson and McCain, but we'll see who actually gets nominated.this is my #1 and #2.

in this time i want a strong leader with a great record of diplomacy and foreign relations. im on the richardson ship until it eventually sinks.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-16-2007, 11:53 AM
......me......

The Duke
12-16-2007, 12:02 PM
......me......

I would vote for that :tt02:

Elvis
12-16-2007, 12:27 PM
:coffee:
So far my vote would go to Mike Huckabee. He stands for all that a christian could ask for.

Polamalu Princess
12-16-2007, 01:47 PM
I'm undecided at this point who I'm going to back. I'm leaning towards Guiliani, but I know more who I'm NOT going to vote for.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/8/L/hillary_funny.jpg

AMEN!!!!!:sofunny:

Polamalu Princess
12-16-2007, 01:50 PM
:sofunny:......me......

Can I be your Vice Pres????:sofunny::sofunny:

SteelCityMan786
12-16-2007, 03:26 PM
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!!!!!!!!

I'm also pro life......but as far a a presidential candidate is concerned, I feel it makes no difference. A president can't change the law because of his personal views. National security is a bigger issue for me. It is all moot if we are forced to wear burkas.

Nice, a couple fellow supporters of Rudy.

Who's all with me in the Rudy 08 train.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
12-16-2007, 03:38 PM
I like John Edwards.

Edwards kind of reminds me of a televangelist.:sofunny:

HometownGal
12-16-2007, 05:15 PM
I like Richardson and McCain, but we'll see who actually gets nominated.

I can't, in good conscience, vote for McCain. He is too wishy washy, imho. During the 2004 election, he rode the fence between Bush and Hanoi John - back and forth like a ping pong ball.

I'll have to read up on Richardson a little more. I dunno - those beady eyes of his kind of weird me out. LOL!

SteelCityMan786
12-16-2007, 05:27 PM
I can't, in good conscience, vote for McCain. He is too wishy washy, imho. During the 2004 election, he rode the fence between Bush and Hanoi John - back and forth like a ping pong ball.

I'll have to read up on Richardson a little more. I dunno - those beady eyes of his kind of weird me out. LOL!

The only Demy i could put up with is Obama. That's it.

HometownGal
12-16-2007, 05:34 PM
The only Demy i could put up with is Obama. That's it.

The only reason I won't support him is because he is a Muslim. Yes - I will freely admit that I don't trust Muslims after 911.

stillers4me
12-16-2007, 05:36 PM
The only Demy i could put up with is Obama. That's it.

And have Oprah as VP???????

The only Dem I'd ever vote for is Joe Lieberman......and he's not running.

j-dawg
12-16-2007, 05:41 PM
The only reason I won't support him is because he is a Muslim. Yes - I will freely admit that I don't trust Muslims after 911.

i don't trust mormons!! hehehe... or catholics... or scientoligists... or people who think that people shouldn't smoke in airplane lavatories.... or folks who thought that we really shouldn't go back to french fries after that whole freedom fries stuff...

SteelCityMan786
12-16-2007, 06:01 PM
And have Oprah as VP???????

The only Dem I'd ever vote for is Joe Lieberman......and he's not running.

Well, he doesn't go out randomly bitching about random things like his fellow party members do.

Dynasty
12-16-2007, 06:14 PM
I wouldnt vote for him if i was able to vote, but Obama isnt a muslim... that was proven to be false...

if u looked i think you would be able to find it on snopes

HometownGal
12-16-2007, 06:55 PM
I wouldnt vote for him if i was able to vote, but Obama isnt a muslim... that was proven to be false...

if u looked i think you would be able to find it on snopes

Thanks for the heads-up, Dynasty. :thumbsup: From everything I had read, I believed him to be a Muslim.

fansince'76
12-16-2007, 06:58 PM
Thanks for the heads-up, Dynasty. :thumbsup: From everything I had read, I believed him to be a Muslim.

Be that as it may, I thought his little dog-and-pony show with Oprah was a huge turnoff.

GBMelBlount
12-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the heads-up, Dynasty. :thumbsup: From everything I had read, I believed him to be a Muslim.

Yep. He has had a pass thus far in the media. Mark my words, if he wins the nomination the floodgates will open.

ShutDown24
12-16-2007, 07:32 PM
I don't know... This is the first year I am eligible to vote... I respect a lot of you're opinions on here ( For more than just football) so I will be viewing these threads often if more come up.

My mom is a republican and my dad is a Democrat, then both of their parents are split as well (One Rep one Dem) so I have a good mix. I am probably going to register as a Republican as I usually like their values more (And Gore and Kerry both seemed very sleazy to me, like a used car salesman - I wanted to like both of them and believe a lot of what they were saying but I couldn't get passed that feeling)

I have liked what I have seen of Guiliani myself but have heard a lot of negative things about him even from Republicans... I only know one thing for sure, I won't be voting for Clinton... I had to read a book about her in my freshman year and it actually made me feel like I was going to throw up.

My overall political view is unbiased as far as either or any party goes and honestley I wish there were no parties. I was a big supporter of that ad campaign 'divided we fail' a while back which seemed like it wanted to eliminate political parties but we all know how hard that would be to do... I think if there were no parties, only individual candidates we truly would get the best person for the job. Until then, here is someones chance to influence a young voter. Tell me why the person you support should also be the one I support?

tony hipchest
12-16-2007, 08:35 PM
I'll have to read up on Richardson a little more. I dunno - those beady eyes of his kind of weird me out. LOL!

heres some links and my personal views if youre interested-

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=16226&highlight=richardson

Godfather
12-16-2007, 10:18 PM
Nobody particularly excites me. I guess that's good because I'm effectively disfranchised thanks to Mississippi's late primary in the spring and the Electoral College in the fall.

Huckabee has a couple of good points--the Fair Tax and being tough on the Saudis and Chicoms. Hillary's the best Democrat, since she's the only one with any balls (figuratively of course). I wish we'd elected McCain in 2000--he would have united the country and engaged the home front in the war on Islamofascism.

Obama's not ready for prime time. Don't particularly dislike Rudy, but if we're going to have a pro-choice, anti-gun liberal we might as well just have a Democrat. I don't trust Romney because of the timing of his flip-flops, plus Romney's health care plan would be an unmitigated disaster.

Tancredo is racist trash--he wants to shut down ALL immigration, not jsut the illegal kind. Kucinich is a whack job who opposes killing bin Laden. Fortunately neither of them has any real shot.

Preacher
12-16-2007, 11:13 PM
I guess the best thing I could do is list who I COULD vote for..

.............
...........
...........
..........


um.

OK.

Well... If I HAVE to vote.

Huckabee. But he is a big govt. republican. I only like him because of his stand on abortion, and the fact that watch you see is what you get.

On the dem. side... Well.... Lieberman.. please run. I know, it is too late.

pitt
12-16-2007, 11:31 PM
I like Fred Thompson.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
12-16-2007, 11:46 PM
My choice is whoever is going to crack down on the corporations that keep hiring these illegals. And right now none of them are willing to do that. The democrates won't even discuss it and the republicans are nothing but a bunch of blowers of smoke up our asses. So I will not be voting for neither party.

It's time to take back this country.

TroysBadDawg
12-17-2007, 08:42 PM
I wouldnt vote for him if i was able to vote, but Obama isnt a muslim... that was proven to be false...

if u looked i think you would be able to find it on snopes

That was never proven false, sorry to disappoint you. That information was put out by his people to counter the info put out against him. But if you were to check real deep you will find he did indeed attend Muslim schools. Probable U. S. Presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was Born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black Muslim From Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white atheist from Wichita, Kansas.

Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father Returned to Kenya.

His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a radical Muslim From Indonesia.

When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia.

Obama attended a Muslim school in Jakarta.

He also spent two years in a Catholic school.

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.

He Is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he Also attended Catholic school."

Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this Influence was temporary at best.

In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya Soon after the Divorce, and never again had any direct influence over His son's Education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, Introduced his stepson to Islam.

Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the Radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now Waging Jihad against the western world.

Have you ever notice he has never saluted the flag of this country, at any ceremony? HE also has refused to take a Oath of Office on the Bible.

SteelCityMan786
12-17-2007, 08:46 PM
My choice is whoever is going to crack down on the corporations that keep hiring these illegals. And right now none of them are willing to do that. The democrates won't even discuss it and the republicans are nothing but a bunch of blowers of smoke up our asses. So I will not be voting for neither party.

It's time to take back this country.

Illegal immigration is the big one with me along with National Security.

GBMelBlount
12-17-2007, 08:51 PM
That was never proven false, sorry to disappoint you. That information was put out by his people to counter the info put out against him. But if you were to check real deep you will find he did indeed attend Muslim schools. Probable U. S. Presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was Born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black Muslim From Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white atheist from Wichita, Kansas.

Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father Returned to Kenya.

His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a radical Muslim From Indonesia.

When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia.

Obama attended a Muslim school in Jakarta.

He also spent two years in a Catholic school.

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.

He Is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he Also attended Catholic school."

Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this Influence was temporary at best.

In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya Soon after the Divorce, and never again had any direct influence over His son's Education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, Introduced his stepson to Islam.

Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the Radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now Waging Jihad against the western world.

Have you ever notice he has never saluted the flag of this country, at any ceremony? HE also has refused to take a Oath of Office on the Bible.

I have actually heard / read about several of these things as well.

Polamalu Princess
12-17-2007, 09:46 PM
The only reason I won't support him is because he is a Muslim. Yes - I will freely admit that I don't trust Muslims after 911.

I try so hard not to become controversial here on the board, as I try to be reasonable and remember that this is ?STEELERS FEVER? and we all have a Steelers heart, but I would never vote for a Muslim either. I agree with you friend. Barack Hussein Obama may claim to be a Christian and he may be; as our Lord and Father allows sinners to be born again and be right within in the love of HIM and acceptance of HIM, yet why will he not say that Jesus is his/our Savior? IF he is not a Muslim, he should proclaim his Savior and explain his roots. He has denounced his father before (a Muslim) - so WILL he denounce Jesus? Just a thought.

I know that I should rethink this post and wait a day or two to post, but this is what is in my heart tonight.

Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a sinner as well ? so who am I to judge?

Preacher
12-17-2007, 09:57 PM
I try so hard not to become controversial here on the board, as I try to be reasonable and remember that this is ?STEELERS FEVER? and we all have a Steelers heart, but I would never vote for a Muslim either. I agree with you friend. Barack Hussein Obama may claim to be a Christian and he may be; as our Lord and Father allows sinners to be born again and be right within in the love of HIM and acceptance of HIM, yet why will he not say that Jesus is his/our Savior? IF he is not a Muslim, he should proclaim his Savior and explain his roots. He has denounced his father before (a Muslim) - so WILL he denounce Jesus? Just a thought.

I know that I should rethink this post and wait a day or two to post, but this is what is in my heart tonight.

Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a sinner as well ? so who am I to judge?

Actually...

I am more worried that he church he goes to is one that preaches racism. I have gone on their website, and like most of what I read. But then there is something on there about "Black Value System." While that sounds ok up front, it is back-loaded with liberation theology, specifically, black liberation theology. All liberation theology is an affront to true Christianity, as it removes the suffering of Christ as center of the faith and instills the suffering of the group to be liberated as central. While I am not sure that is the intent of the pastor or the church, that is the result of the theology. In the end, it creates a race based church... in complete violation of the book of James.

Here is the actual talking points from the website itself. From there, you can navigate the rest of the website of the church.

http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-18-2007, 03:56 AM
Thanks for the heads-up, Dynasty. :thumbsup: From everything I had read, I believed him to be a Muslim.

He isnt Muslim...but as a resident Illinoian I can tell you that he is all symbolism and no substance. The Dems looked for an articulate, good-looking Minority candidate...but the truth is he has next to NO RECORD to hang his hat on. Even those of us he "represents" can not tell you much about him.

SteelersMongol
12-18-2007, 09:10 AM
So what, if he is a Muslim or not. I like him better than Hillary. I know for sure that he isn't gonna hit any building or a bridge while he's on a plane.

I remember that once back in the states it was all like in Japs we don't trust this & that after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Things change & people change.

(sorry guys, if I butted in when it may seem like it isn't my business on whom you folks choose as your president).

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-18-2007, 09:33 AM
So what, if he is a Muslim or not. I like him better than Hillary. I know for sure that he isn't gonna hit any building or a bridge while he's on a plane.

I remember that once back in the states it was all like in Japs we don't trust this & that after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Things change & people change.

(sorry guys, if I butted in when it may seem like it isn't my business on whom you folks choose as your president).

You have a right to an opinion and I appreciate the viewpoint....

...I dont like Obama but it has nothing to do with his faith and more to do with his lack of experience...his failure to salute a flag that American Men & Woman have shed blood defending...and because of the audacity of the Democratic Party in thinking that the American people are shallow enough to vote for a candidate that was hand-picked like a Hollywood casting call, instead of where he might lead our country.

HometownGal
12-18-2007, 10:10 AM
Well... If I HAVE to vote.

Huckabee. But he is a big govt. republican. I only like him because of his stand on abortion, and the fact that watch you see is what you get.

On the dem. side... Well.... Lieberman.. please run. I know, it is too late.

I have to do more reading up on all of the candidates before the election approaches to see where all of them stand vis-a-vis my stances on various issues. I've liked what I've seen out of Huckabee thus far, admittedly.

ShutDown24
12-18-2007, 12:30 PM
I have done some research over the past few days because this thread got me thinking that I need to learn more about these candidates if I plan to vote (Even if it is early, I figure too much info is never bad)...

What I came upon is the fact that I really like Huckabee far more than anyone else I have learned about right now. I was watching youtube videos on different candidates when I came upon a Chuck Norris and Mike Huckabee video. I didn't really know much about him but watched the video and it was hilarious. The video begins with Huckabee saying his plan for boarder control consistes of two words. "Chcuk Norris". I like the fact that he seems not to full of himself to joke around. After that video I searched him and really liked what I saw. If the election was held today he would probably get my vote.

Cape Cod Steel Head
12-18-2007, 04:40 PM
And have Oprah as VP???????

The only Dem I'd ever vote for is Joe Lieberman......and he's not running.
Lieberman is an independent.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 05:46 PM
Lieberman is an independent.

Thats right...

I forgot. He got screwed by the DNC for not towing their line. So much for "open mindedness."

SteelCityMan786
12-18-2007, 05:58 PM
Thats right...

I forgot. He got screwed by the DNC for not towing their line. So much for "open mindedness."

Not to mention he may switch to the Republican side eventually.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 06:10 PM
Not to mention he may switch to the Republican side eventually.

No.

he won't switch. He still votes for the Dems when it comes to issues of procedure and control.

SteelCityMan786
12-18-2007, 06:34 PM
No.

he won't switch. He still votes for the Dems when it comes to issues of procedure and control.

He's considering moving there, he never said he would.

touchdownward
12-19-2007, 05:18 PM
http://inverted-world.com/images/archie.jpg

HometownGal
12-21-2007, 07:43 AM
http://inverted-world.com/images/archie.jpg

:toofunny::toofunny::thumbsup:

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-21-2007, 08:06 AM
HTG....I think I have changed my mind and will Vote for Hillary.

As a Fiscal Conservative I think that it might be the right move financially....

....In hopes that the Clintons bring BACK the $400,000 worth of crap they stole from the White House when they left last time!
:toofunny::toofunny:

HometownGal
12-21-2007, 08:20 AM
HTG....I think I have changed my mind and will Vote for Hillary.

As a Fiscal Conservative I think that it might be the right move financially....

....In hopes that the Clintons bring BACK the $400,000 worth of crap they stole from the White House when they left last time!
:toofunny::toofunny:

That's impossible, LLT - they hocked all the goods at one of NYC's finest pawn shops. :sofunny:

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-21-2007, 08:57 AM
That's impossible, LLT - they hocked all the goods at one of NYC's finest pawn shops. :sofunny:

Oh good!!...I would like the $4,200 gold plated saxophone broach that they claimed as "missing":wink02:

Jeremy
12-21-2007, 09:01 AM
Anyone but Huckabee.

SteelCityMan786
12-21-2007, 10:11 AM
That's impossible, LLT - they hocked all the goods at one of NYC's finest pawn shops. :sofunny:

I say we have them arrested! :toofunny:

CB1977
12-21-2007, 12:54 PM
Have you ever notice he has never saluted the flag of this country, at any ceremony? HE also has refused to take a Oath of Office on the Bible.

Oh yeah...I'd vote for a guy for the President of the United States that refuses to salute the American Flag...:dang:

NOT

I am a registered Democrat but I vote for the person, not the party. I always thought I liked either Clinton or Edwards but, after doing a little research, I realized that the person I agree the most with on issues is Giuliani!!

GBMelBlount
12-21-2007, 08:27 PM
Want to make a quick decision between candidates on the issues most important to you? View this!

http://www.2decide.com/table.htm

Warning, this is very oversimplified. You still need to do your homework.

ShutDown24
12-21-2007, 08:39 PM
Want to make a quick decision between candidates on the issues most important to you? View this!

http://www.2decide.com/table.htm

Warning, this is very oversimplified. You still need to do your homework.

Good list.

revefsreleets
12-22-2007, 06:30 PM
It's WAY too early, but, at this stage I am torn. I lost some respect for McCain because he was forced to eat shit and back Bush when it was clear that he was unhappy (to say the least) about it. McCain is the man now.

Romney is a Mormon. Mormonism is about as legit as Creationism, and only slightly older as far as religious nonsense goes. I expect a certain amount of intellectual capability from my President, and Mormonism is about as believable as the Tooth Fairy. He's out.

Huckabee is smart and funny. He's the flavor of the week. He's also the most reactionary and potentially destructive candidate of them all. When I see the guy who flies the Jesus Banners and Israeli flags in his sig backing Huckabee it literally scares the Hell out of me. Huckabee would tear this country apart. I'd rather elect Hillary. At least she kowtows to popular opinion.

GBMelBlount
12-22-2007, 08:43 PM
Romney is a Mormon. Mormonism is about as legit as Creationism, and only slightly older as far as religious nonsense goes. I expect a certain amount of intellectual capability from my President, and Mormonism is about as believable as the Tooth Fairy. He's out.

So you're voting for a president (or not) & judging their intellect based on your opinion of their religious beliefs rather than how well you believe they would run this country or what their positions are on issues that are critical to you? If you like Hillary better because she votes based on the wind direction is that better? Why not just have americans vote electronically and have all issues decided by a consensus of the voters. I am inferring here that you are saying a consensus of the largely uneducated & uninformed is best? I would rather see you pick someone apart based on their positions on issues that are crucial to our country rather than religion.

Godfather
12-22-2007, 10:09 PM
I have no problem with Mormons, but Romney is the least principled candidate of all. His positions on issues like abortion, gun control, and gay rights change depending on what he's running for.

Preacher
12-22-2007, 10:33 PM
I have no problem with Mormons, but Romney is the least principled candidate of all. His positions on issues like abortion, gun control, and gay rights change depending on what he's running for.


I absolutely agree. I want a person that holds to their convictions, even if I disagree with them. Romney is not that man.

SteelCityMan786
12-22-2007, 10:47 PM
I have no problem with Mormons, but Romney is the least principled candidate of all. His positions on issues like abortion, gun control, and gay rights change depending on what he's running for.

Yep, he's another Bush if you ask me.

GBMelBlount
12-23-2007, 10:10 AM
Changing positions on issues apparently means someone is "the least principled," has conviction issues or is "another Bush", not another Clinton, another Bush. I'm curious which one of you has never changed your opinion on something?

So I guess because Rudy has changed his positions on partial birth abortion (murdering a child during birth), the flat tax, abortion, gun control, pardons, torture & waterboarding and gay rights does that make him all of the aforementioned as well?
I'm sure McCain & everyone else has similar issues if you do a little digging.

The bottom line is you can find position changes on most candidates. That is why I am voting for the candidate I feel has the best combination of successful public service & private sector experience and who is most closely aligned with my beliefs.

Looking at negatives is important but I would also like to find out why some people like their current choice.

GBMelBlount
12-23-2007, 03:33 PM
I absolutely agree. I want a person that holds to their convictions, even if I disagree with them. Romney is not that man.

So you would prefer "a person that holds to their convictions," let's say a devil worshiper over someone like Romney who is more pro life than he was? I agree that someone who constantly changes positions on issues can be suspect. But couldn’t you also argue that as we go through life we learn and experience more and the new things we learn can change our views and opinions? Couldn’t it also be argued that someone who never changes their view on anything is not just firm in their convictions (def: A fixed or firm belief) but closed minded and unwilling to look at other viewpoints?

Godfather
12-23-2007, 08:07 PM
Changing positions on issues apparently means someone is "the least principled," has conviction issues or is "another Bush", not another Clinton, another Bush. I'm curious which one of you has never changed your opinion on something?

So I guess because Rudy has changed his positions on partial birth abortion (murdering a child during birth), the flat tax, abortion, gun control, pardons, torture & waterboarding and gay rights does that make him all of the aforementioned as well?
I'm sure McCain & everyone else has similar issues if you do a little digging.

The bottom line is you can find position changes on most candidates. That is why I am voting for the candidate I feel has the best combination of successful public service & private sector experience and who is most closely aligned with my beliefs.

Looking at negatives is important but I would also like to find out why some people like their current choice.


It's not the position cahnges that bother me. It's the timing of the position changes...he suddenly becomes pro-life and pro-Second Amendment when he wants the GOP nomination for President, after having the opposite positions when he ran for office in Massachussets (where his current positions are unpopular).

A change of heart would be more believable if it happened when it wasn't convenient.

GBMelBlount
12-24-2007, 08:37 AM
It's not the position cahnges that bother me. It's the timing of the position changes...he suddenly becomes pro-life and pro-Second Amendment when he wants the GOP nomination for President, after having the opposite positions when he ran for office in Massachussets (where his current positions are unpopular).

A change of heart would be more believable if it happened when it wasn't convenient.

That is a very good point. However based on what is most important to me in choosing a candidate; success in the private & public sector as well as their positions on major issues and character, Romney is still my choice until someone else is proven better. I am starting to do research now & the first bio I looked up on Wikipedia was RUDY GULIANI. I have liked the little I have heard about Rudy but after reading his bio on Wikipedia, his ethics, motives and integrity are more in question IMO than Romneys.

Also, I like Romneys position on three issues that are very important to me:
national defense, border security/amnesty, and the economy/government spending.

Preacher
12-24-2007, 04:43 PM
So you would prefer "a person that holds to their convictions," let's say a devil worshiper over someone like Romney who is more pro life than he was? I agree that someone who constantly changes positions on issues can be suspect. But couldn?t you also argue that as we go through life we learn and experience more and the new things we learn can change our views and opinions? Couldn?t it also be argued that someone who never changes their view on anything is not just firm in their convictions (def: A fixed or firm belief) but closed minded and unwilling to look at other viewpoints?

The problem is that he changed many of his major convictions.... without having a core change of belief. He is still Mormon. He is still republican. He hasn't changed anything else. Also, the changes weren't evolutionary, nor were they in response to some new found knowledge. They were all within the window of a politician's pre-presidential run positioning time. That 1-3 years before a candidate runs for president.

If he had a change of faith... became christian (in the orthodox sense of the term), or muslim, or Jewish, I could understand the change. He has not. Thus, his positional change smacks of political pandering... and nothing else.

I don't trust him.

I would rather have Huckabee, who is a lot more liberal then him on many positions, but is sticking with his guns. I would rather have Thompson, who has held a conservative record for years. Goodness, I would rather have Lieberman... though I couldn't vote for him because of his abortion stand... because I know he is a man of conviction.

silver & black
12-24-2007, 05:01 PM
Well, untill someone gets nominated, its hard to say. I like McCain and Romney right now.

silver & black
12-24-2007, 05:06 PM
The only reason I won't support him is because he is a Muslim. Yes - I will freely admit that I don't trust Muslims after 911.

You aren't the only one.

Am I the only one wondering how this guy thinks he has a chance with a name like Barack Hussein Obama? :uhh:

silver & black
12-24-2007, 05:08 PM
I wouldnt vote for him if i was able to vote, but Obama isnt a muslim... that was proven to be false...

if u looked i think you would be able to find it on snopes

His parents are, aren't they?

Preacher
12-24-2007, 05:10 PM
His parents are, aren't they?

Yes and no.

The church he goes to now.. and has for QUITE SOME TIME... is a Christian church... and an evangelical Christian church.

However, as I have posted in this thread before, I have some problems with that church.

MasterOfPuppets
12-24-2007, 05:22 PM
Yes and no.

The church he goes to now.. and has for QUITE SOME TIME... is a Christian church... and an evangelical Christian church.

However, as I have posted in this thread before, I have some problems with that church.perhaps that church has a problem with your church.....:wink02:....:sofunny: just joking preach! :thumbsup:

silver & black
12-24-2007, 05:23 PM
Yes and no.

The church he goes to now.. and has for QUITE SOME TIME... is a Christian church... and an evangelical Christian church.

However, as I have posted in this thread before, I have some problems with that church.

I don't mean to sound like I hate Muslims, but I sure wouldn't trust any of them to run my country... closet or otherwise. I can't help but think this guy is only a Christen because it benefits his cause. I won't vote for him for any reason... as immature and racist as that may sound.

Preacher
12-24-2007, 08:56 PM
perhaps that church has a problem with your church.....:wink02:....:sofunny: just joking preach! :thumbsup:


Actually... they probably do... Since I am a SOuthern Baptist, they would claim that my denomination was (and still may) be part of the oppressive slave masters which they need to be liberated from... thus, the theology of liberation theology.

Godfather
12-24-2007, 09:59 PM
Looking at negatives is important but I would also like to find out why some people like their current choice.

Well, a couple of reasons to vote for rather than against:

Huckabee seems to understand more than anyone else that energy independence is critical to winning the war on Islamofascism. My favorite line is when he says that in ten years we can tell the Saudis "We need your oil about as much as we need your sand". If we can kick our oil habit, the madrassas lose billions of dollars.

McCain would do the best job of uniting the country and getting the home front involved. I wish he'd been POTUS on September 12.

GBMelBlount
12-24-2007, 10:20 PM
Goodness, I would rather have Lieberman... though I couldn't vote for him because of his abortion stand... because I know he is a man of conviction.

So just curious what religion are you Preacher?

Preacher
12-24-2007, 10:54 PM
Something doesn't sound right here Preach. It sounds to me like you have it in for the mormon candidate. You're not focusing on the big picture but what I believe you perceive to be his achilles tendon. So just curious what religion are you Preacher? I'm guessing you're not a mormon.

Honestly...

I could care less if he was a mormon. I would have supported Orrin Hatch in an INSTANT for president...

The problem I have with him is simply because he reminds me too much of the "Rockerfeller Republicans" of the '70s. He only tacked right to get the nomination... and will move right back to the left as soon as he gets a chance.

I want a person in office I trust. I don't trust him.. because he changed almost EVERY POSITION... in my opinion.. JUST TO GET NATIONAL EXPOSURE.

Like I said... If he was Orrin Hatch... I would be a very big supporter.

BTW... I hate religion.. I pastor a Southern Baptist Church.

GBMelBlount
12-24-2007, 11:11 PM
Honestly...

I could care less if he was a mormon. I would have supported Orrin Hatch in an INSTANT for president...

The problem I have with him is simply because he reminds me too much of the "Rockerfeller Republicans" of the '70s. He only tacked right to get the nomination... and will move right back to the left as soon as he gets a chance.

I want a person in office I trust. I don't trust him.. because he changed almost EVERY POSITION... in my opinion.. JUST TO GET NATIONAL EXPOSURE.

Like I said... If he was Orrin Hatch... I would be a very big supporter.

BTW... I hate religion.. I pastor a Southern Baptist Church.

Oh, and what religion is Huckabee who you mentioned that you you liked in your post? That surprises me. He seems alot more liberal than I thought you were based on your posts that I have read. Also, if you are not supporting Huckabee, I want to know who you support so we can have an honest discussion on the record. So far on the limited knowledge I have of the candidates, I still like Romney. It is easy to not say who you support & then throw stones at every one elses candidate & hope that yours is the last one standing. So on a positive note, who do you support & why & let's talk about it. The worst that can happen is we will all learn something.

Preacher
12-24-2007, 11:31 PM
Oh, and what religion is Huckabee who you mentioned that you you liked in your post? That surprises me. He seems alot more liberal than I thought you were based on your posts that I have read. Also, if you are not supporting Huckabee, I want to know who you support so we can have an honest discussion on the record. So far on the limited knowledge I have of the candidates, I still like Romney. It is easy to not say who you support & then throw stones at every one elses candidate & hope that yours is the last one standing. So on a positive note, who do you support & why & let's talk about it. The worst that can happen is we will all learn something.

Originally, I liked huckabee... however, he does seem to be a little to the left.

However, he is HONEST about his positions.

I have two major criteria...

1. Pro-life.

2. Honesty in the rest of the positions.

Because of those areas.. I am very much against Romney (Was pro-choice for years... until he decided to run for president), also against Guilanni (Also pro-choice... though I trust him to appoint strict constructionists as judges... but probably wouldn't stop money going to the UN for abortions overseas, among other things).

Basically... I could see myself voting for Thompson, he is pretty much in agreement with my positions.. except on him having a pathway for illegal aliens.

I could see myself voting for Huckabee... not because I am in agreement with him.. but because I agree with him in ONE AREA... and I know I can TRUST HIM to keep that position. Other then that.. he is wrong in probably 60 to 80 percent of his positions... but abortion is THAT IMPORTANT TO ME.

I truly don't like Romney. He is too far to the left.. yet is trying to whitewash himself as a reagan conservative. If he stayed on the left... I would have a lot more respect for him, because I would know I could trust him, which is why I would be able to vote for Huckabee. He is on the left on a lot of things.. but has consistantly been on the right on abortion. His positions are consistant... and thus... I could vote for him and trust him to keep his position.

GBMelBlount
12-25-2007, 12:10 AM
Originally, I liked huckabee... however, he does seem to be a little to the left.

However, he is HONEST about his positions.

I have two major criteria...

1. Pro-life.

2. Honesty in the rest of the positions.

Because of those areas.. I am very much against Romney (Was pro-choice for years... until he decided to run for president), also against Guilanni (Also pro-choice... though I trust him to appoint strict constructionists as judges... but probably wouldn't stop money going to the UN for abortions overseas, among other things).

Basically... I could see myself voting for Thompson, he is pretty much in agreement with my positions.. except on him having a pathway for illegal aliens.

I could see myself voting for Huckabee... not because I am in agreement with him.. but because I agree with him in ONE AREA... and I know I can TRUST HIM to keep that position. Other then that.. he is wrong in probably 60 to 80 percent of his positions... but abortion is THAT IMPORTANT TO ME.

I truly don't like Romney. He is too far to the left.. yet is trying to whitewash himself as a reagan conservative. If he stayed on the left... I would have a lot more respect for him, because I would know I could trust him, which is why I would be able to vote for Huckabee. He is on the left on a lot of things.. but has consistantly been on the right on abortion. His positions are consistant... and thus... I could vote for him and trust him to keep his position.

Thanks Preach,

As always, I appreciate your honesty and convicitons. I know very little about Thompson but can say although Huckabee has been considered by many to be a more liberal republican & a taxer (by some), he appears to be a very moral person with strong convictions. Based on your priorities, it sounds like he is a good choice. I do think Huckabee is relatively liberal regarding illegals & he will admit this. Romney has the harshest stance on illegals IMO which may bother many, but that is something that is important to me. With the border fence no longer being mandatory, if illegals are given amnesty, the flood of illegals will only continue.

Polamalu Princess
12-25-2007, 12:29 AM
Okay guys - all I have to say is that I love your thoughts' - I love all that you have to say and post.

Go Steelers!!!!!:tt02::cheer:

I will vote for Ron Paul. He is everything that I want as a President.

May God bless all of you and keep you in His loving care.

Merry "Christ"mas.

Rhee Rhee
12-25-2007, 02:32 AM
OBAMA!!! he's from my highschool!

silver & black
12-25-2007, 08:16 AM
OBAMA!!! he's from my highschool!

No offense, but isn't that a pretty shallow reason to vote for a person to run your country?

GBMelBlount
12-25-2007, 08:58 AM
No offense, but isn't that a pretty shallow reason to vote for a person to run your country?

Not really, my wife said if I don't vote for Ron Paul she is going to start cooking dinner again!!!!!! :dang:

revefsreleets
12-25-2007, 06:45 PM
I need to clarify my position on Romney and Huckabee.

First off, Mormonism is just silly. The Mormons believe that Jesus, after he was resurrected, built a boat and came over to America. I could go on, but why? Creationism and the "fact" that the World is only 6,000 years old holds more water than this garbage.

And where are you guys getting that Huckabee is a liberal. He's easily the most conservative of the lot. Check out his site and his take on the issues.

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.Home

Polamalu Princess
12-25-2007, 07:23 PM
Not really, my wife said if I don't vote for Ron Paul she is going to start cooking dinner again!!!!!! :dang:

After that response, you better start making reservations until the election is over...:hug:

:hug:
GB's Princess

GBMelBlount
12-25-2007, 09:05 PM
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.Home[/url]

Actually, I like Huckabee from what I've read and like his conservative positions on most every issue. I think he might be a decent president. What makes me hesitate on him is I don't want to reward illegals by giving them citizenship. Also, I read he is against "torture" of islamic terrorists even though info gained could save millions of American lives. Also, I don't want a tax increase. 1/2 of the income my family earns is currently paid in taxes.

Here is Huckabee's record on taxes as governor of Arkansas:

Increased government spending by 65%
Increased number of government workers by 20%
Increased state gas, sales & income taxes
Increased taxes in Arkansas by more than 1/2 BILLION dollars

So fiscally speaking I think he is probably the most liberal. And I think most would agree our taxes and government spending are out of control.

revefsreleets
12-25-2007, 09:16 PM
I think you mean liberal on that one (fiscally) since the above, although not sourced, shows classic "tax and spend".

Huckabee scares me because he's a hard core Baptist, and he is way proud of it. His comments about AIDS are still relevant because they show either an ignorant man knee-jerking, or, more nefariously, a man that knew what AIDS was about kowtowing to his ignorant audience.

Ron Paul nudged around the idea that Huckabee may hasten the already steady creep of fascism into this country. I respect Ron Paul but he's too idealistic to be elected. I actually personally share his libertarian views but sloughed them off as hopelessly unrealistic about 10 years ago.

Godfather
12-25-2007, 09:48 PM
First off, Mormonism is just silly. The Mormons believe that Jesus, after he was resurrected, built a boat and came over to America.
]

I dunno...not really that silly. Jesus walked on water, healed the blind and the lame, cured lepers, raised the dead, turned water into wine, was born of a virgin, and came back from the dead Himself. Is visiting North America really that farfetched?

Preacher
12-26-2007, 12:32 AM
I think you mean liberal on that one (fiscally) since the above, although not sourced, shows classic "tax and spend".

Huckabee scares me because he's a hard core Baptist, and he is way proud of it. His comments about AIDS are still relevant because they show either an ignorant man knee-jerking, or, more nefariously, a man that knew what AIDS was about kowtowing to his ignorant audience.

Ron Paul nudged around the idea that Huckabee may hasten the already steady creep of fascism into this country. I respect Ron Paul but he's too idealistic to be elected. I actually personally share his libertarian views but sloughed them off as hopelessly unrealistic about 10 years ago.

Um...

Rev. With all due respect. Equating Huckabee to fascism is about the equivalent of equating Hillary to Stalin.

revefsreleets
12-26-2007, 08:07 AM
Don't confuse Naziism with facism. This definition of fascism falls right in line when you view the current state of the country through religious lenses. Even Hillary is playing the Jesus card nowadays, and I consider her about as Christian as Allister Crowley.

Fascism:
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

GBMelBlount
12-26-2007, 08:17 AM
revefsreleets;345804]I think you mean liberal on that one (fiscally) since the above, although not sourced, shows classic "tax and spend".

I did.

His comments about AIDS are still relevant because they show either an ignorant man knee-jerking, or, more nefariously, a man that knew what AIDS was about kowtowing to his ignorant audience.

I don't know too much about that, but from the little I heard, I had inferred that at that time we did not know as much as we knew today and he was taking a very conservative "play it safe" approach until more was known.

Ron Paul nudged around the idea that Huckabee may hasten the already steady creep of fascism into this country. I respect Ron Paul but he's too idealistic to be elected. I actually personally share his libertarian views but sloughed them off as hopelessly unrealistic about 10 years ago.

I haven't researched Paul's background but I tend to be more libertarian in my views as well. I just never thought he would be electable. If his pole numbers continue to rise it will only be a matter of time before he is in the cross-hairs of the Associated Press & main stream media. The AP has had 40+ negative pieces each on Romney, Thompson & Guiliani. Far far fewer on Huckabee. Is that because they have less dirt on Huckabee, or because he has come on strong more recently, or the media (being liberally biased) want him to win? I don't know.

revefsreleets
12-26-2007, 08:24 AM
I'd vote for Paul in a second if I actually thought he had any chance of winning, but maybe he will by 11/08, who knows?

As for Huckabee, the press is laying off him for the same reason the Dems are. There is a mile of dirt piled up under this guy, and if he gets the nomination the press and the left will have a field day destroying this guys credibility. I'm telling you, from the little digging I've done, he's so reactionary he makes Dick Nixon look like Shirley Temple.

Preacher
12-26-2007, 03:55 PM
Don't confuse Naziism with facism. This definition of fascism falls right in line when you view the current state of the country through religious lenses. Even Hillary is playing the Jesus card nowadays, and I consider her about as Christian as Allister Crowley.

Fascism:
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

I know what Fascism is, which is why I take exception to your discussing baptists and fascism in the same sentence. It shows an absolute ignorance for the basic tenets of the SBC confession of faith... let me educate you.

XVII. Religious Liberty God alone is Lord of the conscience, and He has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are contrary to His Word or not contained in it. Church and state should be separate. The state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. In providing for such freedom no ecclesiastical group or denomination should be favored by the state more than others. Civil government being ordained of God, it is the duty of Christians to render loyal obedience thereto in all things not contrary to the revealed will of God. The church should not resort to the civil power to carry on its work. The gospel of Christ contemplates spiritual means alone for the pursuit of its ends. The state has no right to impose penalties for religious opinions of any kind. The state has no right to impose taxes for the support of any form of religion. A free church in a free state is the Christian ideal, and this implies the right of free and unhindered access to God on the part of all men, and the right to form and propagate opinions in the sphere of religion without interference by the civil power.
Genesis 1:27; 2:7; Matthew 6:6-7,24; 16:26; 22:21; John 8:36; Acts 4:19-20; Romans 6:1-2; 13:1-7; Galatians 5:1,13; Philippians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:1-2; James 4:12; 1 Peter 2:12-17; 3:11-17; 4:12-19.


Fromt the Baptist Faith and message.


While I am souring on Huckabee by the day for his leftist views.... please don't assume simply because he is a Christian, and a baptist, that he has "Fascist" tendencies... that is VERY insulting to me and the millions of baptists in this country, and just a little arrogant. Especially since there are many other philosophies out there, especially some on the left, which better fit the term.

MasterOfPuppets
12-26-2007, 06:05 PM
I dunno...not really that silly. Jesus walked on water, healed the blind and the lame, cured lepers, raised the dead, turned water into wine, was born of a virgin, and came back from the dead Himself. Is visiting North America really that farfetched?
well duuuhhhhh .....if he can walk on water, then why would he build a boat ??? ......geesh...think man ,think !!...:tap:

Preacher
12-27-2007, 02:24 AM
well duuuhhhhh .....if he can walk on water, then why would he build a boat ??? ......geesh...think man ,think !!...:tap:

:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

Absolutely hilarious.

geo123
12-27-2007, 06:45 AM
Although I think Richardson or Tancreado would best help with Illegal Immigration(a subject that is important to many Americans including myself now) but they just can't seem to compete. I've also heard some good things from Ron Paul, but he has the same problem. We really need to get someone who does not play party politics, an true independant.
One would think that after the last 71/2 years the Dems should be a shoe in for the presidency. Their biggest problem is they can't run a decent canidate. The best they have is Edwards, but he can't seem to get enough support, he couldn't win his own state in the last election.
Right now I'm leaning towards Rudy, but I have my reservations. I lived in NY while he was mayor. Initially he did a very good job, but towards the end I think he went overboard on some things. I think he would be good for 4 years then we should seriously get someone else in. The power tends to go to peoples head.
All the politicians think once they're elected they are there to do what they think is best. they are not! They seem to forget they are supposed to do what the people want!
There are some rumors around that Bloomberg may try sneaking in in Feb. I still work in NY, and I wouldn't consider him a good choice for a presidential canidate.

GBMelBlount
12-27-2007, 07:50 AM
I think Richardson or Tancreado would best help with Illegal Immigration(a subject that is important to many Americans including myself now)

Why is this important to you GEO? Do you see an impact where you live? Also, I'm interested to know why you like Richardson or Tancreado on this? I don't know enough about their current positions to differentiate them from most others.

Right now I'm leaning towards Rudy...... There are some rumors around that Bloomberg may try sneaking in in Feb. I still work in NY, and I wouldn't consider him a good choice for a presidential canidate.

I don't know much about Bloomberg but I did read that in a poll more New Yorkers preferred him as governor over Rudy. That surprised me. Rudy did some good things IMO.

revefsreleets
12-27-2007, 08:03 AM
Look Preach, if you want to take it personally, I understand, but that's not my intent, and not what my overriding point is: Try to find an old sermon from Huck. Guess what? You can't. Huck's camp is going into full lockdown mode because his past is going to eat him alive and they are scrambling to try to redact it as fast as they can. The media and the Dems will find away around this though.

And I'm not the one accusing him of hastening the movement to fasicm, Ron Paul is. I merely followed up and found some very disturbing trends.

Preacher
12-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Look Preach, if you want to take it personally, I understand, but that's not my intent, and not what my overriding point is: Try to find an old sermon from Huck. Guess what? You can't. Huck's camp is going into full lockdown mode because his past is going to eat him alive and they are scrambling to try to redact it as fast as they can. The media and the Dems will find away around this though.

And I'm not the one accusing him of hastening the movement to fasicm, Ron Paul is. I merely followed up and found some very disturbing trends.

and that is my very point. What trends? It has gotten to the point in this country that if anyone claims a religious conviction that doesn't agree with the mainstream press or the DNC, it is labeled as fascist. In short, the mainstream press is becoming one of the most fascist regimes in America.

revefsreleets
12-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Well, for starters, if he's a man of conviction, why is he "hiding his light away".

He also attacked Romney's Mormonism. Now, I know that Mormonism is jokey, but it's the guys faith. I'm also not running for President.

How do you think his comments about "Wives submitting graciously to the servant leadership of their husbands" will play in Peoria, let alone NYC, LA or Boston?

He doesn't believe in evolution, and he's basically stated he's a Creationist. He's shied away from the zanies who think the Dinosaurs co-existed with cavemen, but I think he believes that.

The Minutemen support him.

Huck has also publicly stated (Some of those sermons have leaked) that if you aren't religious, and, more specifically CHRISTIAN, you are incapable of making sound moral choices, are basically immoral. Talk about offensive!

revefsreleets
12-27-2007, 06:00 PM
I also think I should start simple, like a definition of "reactionary":

re?ac?tion?ar?y /riˈ?kʃəˌnɛri/
1. of, pertaining to, marked by, or favoring reaction, esp. extreme conservatism or rightism in politics; opposing political or social change.
–noun
2. a reactionary person.

—Synonyms 1, 2. ultraconservative.
—Antonyms 1, 2. radical.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Preacher
12-27-2007, 07:59 PM
Well, for starters, if he's a man of conviction, why is he "hiding his light away".

Simple Because as a public servant, he makes the distinction between what he beleives as a Christian and what he should and should not do as a president. It seems to me that it is those who are opposed to Christianity who are making hay about his beliefs.... he seems to do a very good job of knowing the distinction. I guess the constitutional ban on religious tests are no longer valid right?


He also attacked Romney's Mormonism. Now, I know that Mormonism is jokey, but it's the guys faith. I'm also not running for President.

No. He did not. Please... stop listening to the media, and find the sources. Here is a link that gives an excellent explanation. http://roebuckreport.blogspot.com/2007/12/huckabee-attacks-on-mormons-media.html


How do you think his comments about "Wives submitting graciously to the servant leadership of their husbands" will play in Peoria, let alone NYC, LA or Boston?

I don't care how they play. It is part of the baptist faith and message, just behind the phrase, "Men and women are created equal before God." Amazing how people skip over that part. Again, believe the media, or check out the actual sources. You will find that you are quite wrong.


He doesn't believe in evolution, and he's basically stated he's a Creationist. He's shied away from the zanies who think the Dinosaurs co-existed with cavemen, but I think he believes that.

And? I don't believe in evolution either? So you are telling me that an Christian who stands by the scripture can't be a president? Again... so much for the constitutional ban on religious tests.


The Minutemen support him.

Again... SO? Minutemen.. you mean those guys that hang out... see ILLEGAL PEOPLE crossing the border... call the border police, and move exactly 90 degrees away from them? Those people?


Huck has also publicly stated (Some of those sermons have leaked) that if you aren't religious, and, more specifically CHRISTIAN, you are incapable of making sound moral choices, are basically immoral. Talk about offensive!

In a theological setting as a church, he is absolutely right. Christians are the only one according to our faith that has the Holy Spirit. Without the H.S., each person is direct by sin nature. Thus, even good decision are sinfully driven to some degree.
Offensive? Yes. it still doesn't negate the question as to whether it is true.

Or do you want a country where a person is not allowed to express and share his faith that has been held for 2000 years. Talk about reactionary and fascist.



Do I sound a little ticked off? yes? good. I like you Rev... but this post, and the one before it really comes off as arrogant. Do you not understand that 10's of millions of people hold these beliefs in this country, including Professors of Biology and genetic surgery, medical doctors, historians, etc. etc. To dismiss someone simply because they hold a theological belief is scary. To demand a person not have that theological belief if they want to hold office violates constitutional standards and truly smacks fo the same fascism your accusing Huckabee of pushing.

Why else am I a little ticked off... do some study on the history of Baptists. You will find why I consider this very offensive. Start with the Anabaptists and Felix Manz, how and why he died. Move on to King Ferdinand stating that the best way to kill an Anabaptist is by a third baptism, that is, DROWNING them. Move on from there to how Baptist in the U.S. was persecuted before the constitution, and how it was BAPTISTS that pushed for the separation of the state from the church.

Do you now understand why i get upset? It is the most historically and factually inaccurate statement I have heard yet.

OH yeah. one last thing. He is wrong for hiding his sermons because he doesn't believe that the job is a religious job, yet he is wanting to be a fascist and demand everyone believe his way when he gets the job? Really? that makes logical sense?

I am sorry... but this really smacks of the same logic as, "He is black, so of course he is guilty."

It has no place in civil debate.

revefsreleets
12-28-2007, 08:00 AM
I'm angry too. I do not want a Southern Baptist Minister in the White House. They started out hating blacks and thinking that slavery was a divine right, and now they've shifted their hatred and intolerance to gays. I had a much longer, more in depth post, WITH SOURCES cited but it was too angry, so I dumbed it down to the Cliff's Notes. I'm out of this one, but it's a moot point anyway. As I said earlier, he's the flavor of the week, that's all. I won't talk about Huck anymore...

revefsreleets
12-28-2007, 09:31 AM
Further clarification: Southern Baptists are different than other Baptists. Quite lengthy, but interesting read that sheds some light on the subject:

http://atheism.about.com/od/baptistssouthernbaptists/a/southernbaptist.htm

PisnNapalm
12-28-2007, 12:19 PM
Ron Paul.... nuff said. He's the first candidate since Ronald Regan that I feel is actually worth voting for.

I've voted in every election I've been able to. I just recently changed my party affiliation from independent to Republican just so I can vote for Ron Paul this spring.

I want a President who will::

1. Pull us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
2. Stop the USA from dumping billions of $$$$ into "foreign aid".
3. Stop this NAFTA bullshit and the "Amero" currency I've read about.
4. Enforce the immigration laws. Use those billions from "foreign aid" to beef up our own borders and military at home.
5. preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

My last point is the biggest. I want a President who will stop the gun grabbing and realize that taking guns from law-abiding people doesn't prevent crime. It increases crime when you disarm the good guys.

Let me go one more notch in the extreme. How about a 3 strikes law where on the 3rd strike you're not sent to jail for life, you're dead. Career criminals account for 70% of our violent crime. Many of them have been in and out of the penal system like it has a farking revolving door. 3rd time and they get a .45 bullet to the head.

Damn can I ramble on or what?:flap:

Steeler in Carolina
12-28-2007, 01:08 PM
What is everyone's fascination with Rudy? He was a terrible mayor in New York. The only thing that saved his legacy was the worst disaster in American history.

GBMelBlount
12-28-2007, 01:10 PM
So what's this guy with two first names (confusing!) want to do, an immediate and complete withdrawal?

PisnNapalm
12-28-2007, 01:17 PM
What is everyone's fascination with Rudy? He was a terrible mayor in New York. The only thing that saved his legacy was the worst disaster in American history.


Exactly....

HometownGal
12-28-2007, 02:51 PM
What is everyone's fascination with Rudy? He was a terrible mayor in New York. The only thing that saved his legacy was the worst disaster in American history.

Truthfully, my fascination with Rudy is my non-fascination with all of the other candidates thus far. Rudy is a straight shooter and I like his platforms on various issues.

PisnNapalm
12-28-2007, 03:14 PM
If 9/11 had never happened would anyone know or care who he is?

HometownGal
12-28-2007, 03:22 PM
If 9/11 had never happened would anyone know or care who he is?

I knew who he was before 911 - I was hoping he'd take up residence in PA so Pork Chop Eddie could take a hike. :wink02:

I think the same could be said for most of the candidates - before I did some reading on each of them, I had no idea who some of them were, other than Hitlary, Edwards, McCain, Richardson and Paul.

Hey - let's not hijack this thread anymore. There is a thread for candidate discussions. In fact, I'm going to move the last 5 posts over there. :cheers:

ShutDown24
12-28-2007, 03:25 PM
If 9/11 had never happened would anyone know or care who he is?

That is irrelevant because it did happen.

Like HTG said tough, most citizens don't know who most of the presidential candidates are until they do in fact become presidential candidates.

Preacher
12-28-2007, 06:14 PM
I'm angry too. I do not want a Southern Baptist Minister in the White House. They started out hating blacks and thinking that slavery was a divine right, and now they've shifted their hatred and intolerance to gays. I had a much longer, more in depth post, WITH SOURCES cited but it was too angry, so I dumbed it down to the Cliff's Notes. I'm out of this one, but it's a moot point anyway. As I said earlier, he's the flavor of the week, that's all. I won't talk about Huck anymore...

Southern Baptists did not think Slavery was divine right. That is a horrible and completely wrong thing to say. Baptist in the south were at odds with the baptist in the north over slavery, just as the rest of the north and south were at odds over slavery. When the Northern Baptists moved to disallow any Southerners from being missionaries if they owned slaves (which was the proper, biblical postion by the northerners), the Southerners broke off, created their own mission sending agency, and joined together to send missionaries. That ALONE is the reason for the break between Southern and Northern Baptists. It is an ugly history in and of itself. However, it has NOTHING to do with a "Divine right." I have no idea where you get this information, but it is blatantly slanderous towards the largest protestant denomination in this country. I imagine that source also hasn't discussed anything the Southern Baptists have done in rectifying the relationship between black and white Christians either... did it?

Hatred and intolerance towards gays? I will tell you what... when you hold a gay man as he is dying from aids... comforting him as my friend has... When even the doctors refuse to touch him anymore... When you hold a gay man next to you to give him support as he is about to vomit from the medicines he is taking for AIDS as I have... When you spend hours talking to a woman who is a lesbian... who is suicidal because she was repeatedly raped by her brothers friends... and has ran into the arms of females for protection... and you just sit there and cry with her... THEN TALK TO ME ABOUT HATRED AND INTOLERANCE.

And trust me... I and my friend are the norm, not the exception in my denomination. It is your choice, either blind yourself to the truth... or examine it. But please. Do not tell me who and what I am, or my colleagues are. I know them much better then you ever will.

revefsreleets
12-28-2007, 08:02 PM
Preach, continuing this will only do further damage between us. Have you ever known me to just make stuff up?

I'm dropping this now.

Preacher
12-28-2007, 08:54 PM
Preach, continuing this will only do further damage between us. Have you ever known me to just make stuff up?

I'm dropping this now.

Thanks for responding in that way...

As I read back over my last post, I realized just how emotionally charged the post was. While I still hold to what I said, I could have found a MUCH better way of saying it. I am sorry if I offended you, and I realize I did direct it at you... so please forgive me.

augustashark
12-29-2007, 02:18 AM
I respect everyones point of view on who they like and who they dont. I feel that Fred Thompson is the best choice, maybe not the best chance. When I go through his record, I see alot of things that I personally believe in. Abortion, gun control, immigration and the war in Iraq. Here is a link to some of his views. Take a look and decide for yourself.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Fred_Thompson.htm

Oh yea, I have to say that I find it so funny how people who believe in evolution will always shout down, put down and name call people who believe in creation. I will never be ashamed that I believe GOD put us here and gave us free will to even go against him and defy that he ever existed. My pillow is soft at night because even if I'm wrong I will end up just like everyone else. If I'm right then there will be plenty who are left behind, which means more for me and people who believe.

I'm not a huge Huck fan (mainly because of his record regarding the things I pointed out above with Thompson), but I applaud him for coming out and saying he does not believe in evolution. Nowadays thats more tabo then saying you believe in creation.

revefsreleets
12-31-2007, 08:23 AM
What's the old saying about never talking politics or religion?

And here we are talking about both at once. There was bound to be friction. Anyway, it's all good, so no worries.

Preacher
01-01-2008, 02:48 AM
What's the old saying about never talking politics or religion?

And here we are talking about both at once. There was bound to be friction. Anyway, it's all good, so no worries.

:sofunny:

Some of us never learn...eh?

Happy new year...................................... ya heathen! :toofunny: :hug:

Godfather
01-01-2008, 10:20 PM
I knew who he was before 911 - I was hoping he'd take up residence in PA so Pork Chop Eddie could take a hike. :wink02:

I think the same could be said for most of the candidates - before I did some reading on each of them, I had no idea who some of them were, other than Hitlary, Edwards, McCain, Richardson and Paul.

Hey - let's not hijack this thread anymore. There is a thread for candidate discussions. In fact, I'm going to move the last 5 posts over there. :cheers:

Could we refrain from the use of "Hitlary"? You don't have to like her, but Nazi comparisons are grossly overused in our political discourse, which trivializes the Holocaust.

Preacher
01-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Could we refrain from the use of "Hitlary"? You don't have to like her, but Nazi comparisons are grossly overused in our political discourse, which trivializes the Holocaust.

I don't agree that it trivializes the holocaust in particular. As horrible as the holocaust was, it was but one of a number of inexplicable and inhumane things Hitler did. Let us not forget the 24 million civilians that died because of German aggression, not to forget the around 28 million killed or wounded soldiers in the European theater.

The use of Hitler/nazism/fascism in political debate today trivializes the deaths of MILLIONS of people... including, but not limited to the holocaust.

Preacher
01-02-2008, 03:38 AM
I don't agree that it trivializes the holocaust in particular. As horrible as the holocaust was, it was but one of a number of inexplicable and inhumane things Hitler did. Let us not forget the 24 million civilians that died because of German aggression, not to forget the around 28 million killed or wounded soldiers in the European theater.

The use of Hitler/nazism/fascism in political debate today trivializes the deaths of MILLIONS of people... including, but not limited to the holocaust.

However, the drive to use the name "hitlery" comes, in part I think, from the lefts considerable overamped equating of Bush and Hitler/Nazism/Fascism. Basically, what goes around comes around. Sadly.

Neither side understands anymore, that when you open a door and step through it.. such as negative campaigns, equating people with Hitler, etc. That all it does is drive the political discussion even more to the extreme... and the other side will always rise up to trump the argument with something greater.

revefsreleets
01-02-2008, 08:08 AM
I think karma zapped me, Preach. I spent my New Year's eve and day sick in bed.

Jeremy
01-02-2008, 08:11 AM
However, the drive to use the name "hitlery" comes, in part I think, from the lefts considerable overamped equating of Bush and Hitler/Nazism/Fascism. Basically, what goes around comes around. Sadly.

Neither side understands anymore, that when you open a door and step through it.. such as negative campaigns, equating people with Hitler, etc. That all it does is drive the political discussion even more to the extreme... and the other side will always rise up to trump the argument with something greater.

People today have no idea what real facism looks like. Everytime someone tells some spoiled brat to do something, that person is being a "facist" or a "Nazi." I can't help but wonder what these people would do if they were faced with social oppresion like you see in the Middle East or some African nations. I'm willing to bet that the folks who used facist references would be begging to come back to the US after a few months under the thumb of some of history's more tyrannical regimes.

HometownGal
01-02-2008, 08:22 AM
Could we refrain from the use of "Hitlary"? You don't have to like her, but Nazi comparisons are grossly overused in our political discourse, which trivializes the Holocaust.

I think Preacher sums it up best.

However, the drive to use the name "hitlery" comes, in part I think, from the lefts considerable overamped equating of Bush and Hitler/Nazism/Fascism. Basically, what goes around comes around. Sadly.

Neither side understands anymore, that when you open a door and step through it.. such as negative campaigns, equating people with Hitler, etc. That all it does is drive the political discussion even more to the extreme... and the other side will always rise up to trump the argument with something greater.

I'm sorry if I offended you, Godfather, with the Hitlary remark. In the future, I shall just refer to Hillary Clinton as bitch. k? :wink02:

Borski
01-02-2008, 04:05 PM
I thought this was funny, so I'll share

8oWuCQ7g8m8

TroysBadDawg
01-07-2008, 12:03 PM
I am sorry I was going to jump into this one but then, the Grand PooPoo of the Browns smacked me across the face and said "Hey you stupid, you don't discuss politics, weather, or religion and you won't make enemies.” So strike this post if you want. The Devil made me write it.

silver & black
01-10-2008, 09:14 PM
I am sorry I was going to jump into this one but then, the Grand PooPoo of the Browns smacked me across the face and said "Hey you stupid, you don't discuss politics, weather, or religion and you won't make enemies.? So strike this post if you want. The Devil made me write it.

You must have known my father. He always said: "never discuss politics or religeon with friends... or they soon won't be."

Borski
01-10-2008, 10:20 PM
You must have known my father. He always said: "never discuss politics or religeon with friends... or they soon won't be."

Me and my friends argue/debate about politics all the time but never carry a grudge about it.

silver & black
01-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Me and my friends argue/debate about politics all the time but never carry a grudge about it.

I do the same. I think the no discussing politics and religeon is a generational thing. I've heard the same thing said over the years by people of my father's generation and older.

HometownGal
01-11-2008, 04:16 PM
I do the same. I think the no discussing politics and religeon is a generational thing. I've heard the same thing said over the years by people of my father's generation and older.

Your father's generation is very wise, s & b. I have personally experienced terrible misunderstandings that have led to friendships being broken over politics, but the way I look at it is if something that trivial can ruin a "friendship", it was never a friendshp to begin with.

revefsreleets
01-15-2008, 08:34 PM
Not going to start a new thread, so this seems to be the best place to stick this:

Romney won Michigan, which surprised me a bit, even though his dad is from there and all. The more I learn about Mitt, the less I like.

GBMelBlount
01-15-2008, 09:12 PM
Not going to start a new thread, so this seems to be the best place to stick this:

Romney won Michigan, which surprised me a bit, even though his dad is from there and all. The more I learn about Mitt, the less I like.

If I had to guess, I would say they are concerned about their economy and are leaning towards someone who they feel may best be able to help their economic situation.

TroysBadDawg
01-15-2008, 11:15 PM
OK I have had it with those that are running, I nominate myself to run. Nahhh I can't lie like they do.....never mind.

Preacher
01-15-2008, 11:25 PM
Is it too late to vote for bugs bunny?

revefsreleets
01-17-2008, 07:59 AM
I think Romney and Obama both are making an awful lot of promises (particularly concerning the economy) that they will never be able to keep.

Jeremy
01-17-2008, 08:06 AM
Romney is rising and The Huckster is falling.