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Sharkissle29
12-16-2007, 05:35 PM
Another game, another poorly called game in my opinion. I understand that the jags have one of the worst pass defenses, but why not give the ball to willie more? 14 carries are you kidding me? Yet he still went for 100. I know the recievers didnt help in the numerous dropped passes but i really cant find the logic in his play calling most of the time. Its clear to see the pass blocking by the oline wasnt all that great, but we were opening up HUGE holes for willie in the running game. i understand im going to get flamed for this, but i really want to see him get fired. I know it wont happen but thats just my wish.

Roethlisberger- 33 actual attempts for 146 yards (not including sacks)
Parker- 14 carries 100 yards.

is this what you call our "new" steelers football?

Black@Gold Forever32
12-16-2007, 06:08 PM
Watch it Bruce Arians is God around these parts.....You can't knock him...Still trying to figure that play on 4th and 7 at the end there.....It was designed for Miller no doubt...But why throw short of the first down marker on 4th down?.....Just retarded but I know the response....Ben changed the play and called that play to Miller...lol

Atlanta Dan
12-16-2007, 06:10 PM
Arians is coaching for his job the next 2 games

TackleMeBen
12-16-2007, 06:12 PM
i dont know if i would let him coach the next two games.. we need to win them to hold on to the division and a playoff spot.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
12-16-2007, 06:22 PM
Arians is coaching for his job the next 2 games

Even if he coaches well I say we still cut him loose. In my opinion the bad out weighs the good with Arians.

MACH1
12-16-2007, 06:26 PM
In my opinion the guy needs to be kicked to the gutter. Stupid stupid play calling.
I don't voice my opinion on these things much but something needs to be done.

SteelDogFan
12-16-2007, 06:28 PM
This is Tomlin's first year as head coach.

Sharkissle29
12-16-2007, 07:17 PM
Even if he coaches well I say we still cut him loose. In my opinion the bad out weighs the good with Arians.

im just not sure tomlin agrees with the majority opinion on arians....i sure hope he does, but he tends to say "lack of execution" is the problem.

Steeler in Carolina
12-16-2007, 07:21 PM
This was the first game I saw Willie getting big yards on every carry. I am still baffled on why he only had 14 carries.

ohiosteelerfan20
12-16-2007, 07:32 PM
The O line is pretty weak. I think we can all agree on that. And the O line is very important. So why is it the OC fault. I mean what plays should he call. I believe that 22 points in a snow storm at home should be enough to win every time. This ' Arians doesnt know what he is doing' post is soooo tired.

Atlanta Dan
12-16-2007, 07:34 PM
The O line is pretty weak. I think we can all agree on that. And the O line is very important. So why is it the OC fault. I mean what plays should he call. I believe that 22 points in a snow storm at home should be enough to win every time. This ' Arians doesnt know what he is doing' post is soooo tired.

I agree the D lost the game but the offense did not do much - 14 points were on 15 and 30 yard drives + the play calling (the obligatory white flag waved on the 3rd and 15 draw & the last play to Miller) was baffling

Sharkissle29
12-16-2007, 07:36 PM
The O line is pretty weak. I think we can all agree on that. And the O line is very important. So why is it the OC fault. I mean what plays should he call. I believe that 22 points in a snow storm at home should be enough to win every time. This ' Arians doesnt know what he is doing' post is soooo tired.

So tired, but all so true. 22 points wasnt enough to win this game, and we could have contolled the game a ton more by running. Believe me its not only this game, his logic in play calling is just horrendous.

BozMan
12-16-2007, 10:00 PM
Meh, I don't think Arians called that bad of a game. The NE game was ugly, but this wasn't that bad.

When Hines drops a perfectly thrown pass on what would have been a crucial third-and-long conversion, how is that Arians' fault?

When our patchwork O-Line continually lets defenders into the backfield to drop Ben or Willie for a loss, that puts us into difficult long yardage situations with a low probability of succeeding.

Lastly, when the defense lets the other team put together a humiliating, 20-play, 10-minute TD drive on one possession and a 50-yard TD bomb on the next, that usually means your offense is playing from behind with limited options.

jjpro11
12-16-2007, 10:06 PM
there were a couple plays where a receiver was wide open and ben threw a bad pass.. there were a couple plays where a receiver was wide open and the receiver dropped the ball. you can blame arians for getting away from the running game a bit.. but a number of the calls were pretty damn good, we just couldnt execute.

noto45
12-16-2007, 10:20 PM
Bottom line he stinks!!!!

HometownGal
12-16-2007, 10:37 PM
there were a couple plays where a receiver was wide open and ben threw a bad pass.. there were a couple plays where a receiver was wide open and the receiver dropped the ball. you can blame arians for getting away from the running game a bit.. but a number of the calls were pretty damn good, we just couldnt execute.

BINGO. :thumbsup:

Believe me - I don't agree with all of Arians' play calls, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have the knowledge/experience of an NFL coach and/or OC. The way I see it, however, is that an OC can call the most efficient plays in the world, but without a reliable OL to pass protect and run block (as the Jags clearly have and the Steelers do not), the offensive unit will have problems with its execution.

zoneblitz43
12-16-2007, 11:01 PM
I didn't have a problem with Arian's play calling, I like that he is utilizing Ben and Heaths talents, Ben has a career best 29 td's and a 100.5 rating. The problem is that our o-line can't pass protect for shit. Ben was sacked 5 times today. He was pressured at least 10 times. The o-line gives him no time, and all our opponents are aware of that, which results in a sack fest. Can anybody name one game this season where the Steelers o-line didn't allow a sack? I don't think so. The problem is not Arians or the play calling, the problem is that the o-line doesn't even give Ben enough time to even attempt to make a play.

Haiku_Dirtt
12-16-2007, 11:17 PM
Even if he coaches well I say we still cut him loose. In my opinion the bad out weighs the good with Arians.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Tomlin/Arians have a better record with essentially the same fire power as the well seasoned coaching staff of Cowher/Whisenhunt from last season.

The fourth down play to Heath didn't bother me more than the third down incompletion before it when Ben had the same relief available but chose double coverage instead. Instead of fourth and short we had fourth and long.

Ken Whisenhunt couldn't win with this offense last season but he should have become head coach? Bruce Arians wins with this pathetic line and we should run him down to Morgantown. :hunch:

Steel Pit
12-16-2007, 11:43 PM
There's plenty of blame to go around and that includes Arians.

The offensive line isn't very good. Agreed?

The WR's have dropped quite a few passes all season long. Agreed?

Ben has thrown his share of inaccurate passes. Agreed?

Now to Arians. The entire world is well aware of the FACT that the Steelers offensive line isn't capable of sustaining blocks for more than 1 or 2 seconds. So why does Arians call SO D A M N MANY play-action pass plays? Obviously, DUH, play action pass plays require the offensive linemen to hold their blocks longer.

And #2. Look at the Steelers WR routes. Good God, most of the routes are 20 to 30 yards downfield. These 20 to 30 routes OBVIOUSLY take longer to develop which in turn requires that the offensive linemen must maintain their blocks longer.

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around but THE MAJORITY of it should fall in the lap of Bruce Arians. A coach must gameplan around his teams weakness.

FAB802
12-17-2007, 12:09 AM
For the record we don't want his butt in Morgantown either.

Haiku_Dirtt
12-17-2007, 02:20 AM
:toofunny:For the record we don't want his butt in Morgantown either.

:toofunny: Classic response. Really.

Here's to hoping that WVU "Draft Hopefuls" aren't forgetting that they are playing one of the best teams in the country. And not only for the sake of seeing Stoops "up-Stooped" but to help keep the program intact.

Haiku_Dirtt
12-17-2007, 02:35 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around and that includes Arians.

The offensive line isn't very good. Agreed?

The WR's have dropped quite a few passes all season long. Agreed?

Ben has thrown his share of inaccurate passes. Agreed?

Now to Arians. The entire world is well aware of the FACT that the Steelers offensive line isn't capable of sustaining blocks for more than 1 or 2 seconds. So why does Arians call SO D A M N MANY play-action pass plays? Obviously, DUH, play action pass plays require the offensive linemen to hold their blocks longer.

And #2. Look at the Steelers WR routes. Good God, most of the routes are 20 to 30 yards downfield. These 20 to 30 routes OBVIOUSLY take longer to develop which in turn requires that the offensive linemen must maintain their blocks longer.

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around but THE MAJORITY of it should fall in the lap of Bruce Arians. A coach must gameplan around his teams weakness.

And I'm not defending Arians because I'm on the record - and it's well documented - for being critical of the plays a long long time ago. But when the OC and - well let's face it -the organization turn the key over to the QB to improvise the control shifts dramatically. Ben's a risk-taker.

Now is it Arians waiting for the 30 yard route to break free? Is it the OC who is unwilling to take what the "defense is giving" because I see guys who aren't in double and triple coverage often.

NOW as far as running the ball against the Jags...

'Parker right tackle no gain'
'Parker left tackle no gain'
'B.Rothlisberger sacked for -8 yards'

The first drive of the game sums up the season.

Glace
12-17-2007, 03:14 AM
When we lose, everybody wants to fire him....when we win, "he isn't so bad"

Some of you need to back off of Arians. I remember Whisenhunt calling a few that left me scratching my head.

The line is not playing up to par.
Ben overthrew or missed guys a couple of times.
Our receivers do not have break-away speed (Holmes does but is not 100%)

We are simply not executing the game plan.

We have the line of '05, we're putting up 40 points a game, and Parker is leading the league by a lot more yards...Guaranteed.

I don't think he should lose his job yet. We are in the FIRST year of a new coaching staff. All-in-all, the Steelers exceeded my expectations for the season (except for falling flat towards the end) I was all doom and gloom that we'd have a terrible rebuilding year, lucky to break 6-10. That's not the case at all.

Cohesiveness is a major factor in success. We're not all on the same page yet. We've shown flashes of it this year (i.e. Seattle, Baltimore 1st half)....but we're not 100% there.

Give it time.

Galax Steeler
12-17-2007, 05:19 AM
I have seen some good play calling and some bad but I think we need to give it a little more time.

ohiosteelerfan20
12-17-2007, 06:29 AM
[QUOTE=HometownGal;341439]BINGO. :thumbsup:

Believe me - I don't agree with all of Arians' play calls, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have the knowledge/experience of an NFL coach and/or OC.

:nw:HometownGal:nw: That was so well said. I just wish others would take the time to read those words. And think about this. Just imagine you are at your job. You have been doing this job for years and years. Working 70- 80 hour work weeks. Then some guy comes along with no experience, never actually doing your job one day in his life, and says, :computer:NO NO you are doing it all wrong. Some of you should go apply for the local jr. high OC job:flap:

Steel Pit
12-17-2007, 06:54 AM
[QUOTE=HometownGal;341439]BINGO. :thumbsup:

Believe me - I don't agree with all of Arians' play calls, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have the knowledge/experience of an NFL coach and/or OC.

:nw:HometownGal:nw: That was so well said. I just wish others would take the time to read those words. And think about this. Just imagine you are at your job. You have been doing this job for years and years. Working 70- 80 hour work weeks. Then some guy comes along with no experience, never actually doing your job one day in his life, and says, :computer:NO NO you are doing it all wrong. Some of you should go apply for the local jr. high OC job:flap:


I don't believe that the Rooney's have any experience at or have ever been Offensive Coordinators but they have been known to step in from time to time and say, "NO, NO, you are doing it all wrong", we're going to have to let you go.

It's not about knowing someones job, this is all about the product that one puts on the shelf. I couldn't even begin to build an alternator for my motor vehicle but if I have to replace mine, I know what it's supposed to do and it dang well better do what it's supposed to do.

None of us are acting as if we have the knowledge or experience of an NFL coach or coordinator.

Just the same none of us act as if we have the knowledge or experience of an NFL Official but we'll sure as HECK flame an official when he makes a bad call. So you're essentially saying, How DARE us question an officials call, we don't have the experience to question that mans call?

ohiosteelerfan20
12-17-2007, 07:08 AM
Hey Steel Pit, was Arians doing it all wrong yesterday.

Steeldude
12-17-2007, 07:08 AM
Just imagine you are at your job. You have been doing this job for years and years. Working 70- 80 hour work weeks. Then some guy comes along with no experience, never actually doing your job one day in his life, and says, :computer:NO NO you are doing it all wrong.

and what if you suck at this job for year and years? :smile:

Steeldude
12-17-2007, 07:10 AM
I don't believe that the Rooney's have any experience at or have ever been Offensive Coordinators but they have been known to step in from time to time and say, "NO, NO, you are doing it all wrong", we're going to have to let you go.

It's not about knowing someones job, this is all about the product that one puts on the shelf. I couldn't even begin to build an alternator for my motor vehicle but if I have to replace mine, I know what it's supposed to do and it dang well better do what it's supposed to do.

None of us are acting as if we have the knowledge or experience of an NFL coach or coordinator.

Just the same none of us act as if we have the knowledge or experience of an NFL Official but we'll sure as HECK flame an official when he makes a bad call. So you're essentially saying, How DARE us question an officials call, we don't have the experience to question that mans call?


that's a good post :thumbsup:

ohiosteelerfan20
12-17-2007, 07:25 AM
:Ben 29 tds 11 ints Willie leading the league in rushing. All with a sub par O line. Yea lets get rid of the guy since the O has been so bad this year:sofunny: Hey, the D was bad yesterday too, so lets get Lebeau out of there cause he doesnt know what he is doing, RIGHT?:blah:

HometownGal
12-17-2007, 08:03 AM
[QUOTE=ohiosteelerfan20;341535]

and what if you suck at this job for year and years? :smile:

Thank you for proving my point, Steeldude. :thumbsup: If Arians "performance" is not up to Tomlin's and/or the Rooneys' liking after next season (provided the OL problems are fixed), then consider replacing him. After one season with the worst OL in the league, I'm just not going to throw the guy under the bus.

HometownGal
12-17-2007, 08:07 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around and that includes Arians.

The offensive line isn't very good. Agreed?

The WR's have dropped quite a few passes all season long. Agreed?

Ben has thrown his share of inaccurate passes. Agreed?

Now to Arians. The entire world is well aware of the FACT that the Steelers offensive line isn't capable of sustaining blocks for more than 1 or 2 seconds. So why does Arians call SO D A M N MANY play-action pass plays? Obviously, DUH, play action pass plays require the offensive linemen to hold their blocks longer.

And #2. Look at the Steelers WR routes. Good God, most of the routes are 20 to 30 yards downfield. These 20 to 30 routes OBVIOUSLY take longer to develop which in turn requires that the offensive linemen must maintain their blocks longer.

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around but THE MAJORITY of it should fall in the lap of Bruce Arians. A coach must gameplan around his teams weakness.

If it were one or two players on the OL that were causing their inefficiency, I'd have to agree with you. In the Steelers' case, however, the entire OL is deficient. They have tried moving a couple of players around this season and the same inefficiency exists. The line needs a huge overhaul which isn't going to happen until the draft and the beginning of the free agency marathon.

Blonde Bomber
12-17-2007, 08:20 AM
And I'm not defending Arians because I'm on the record - and it's well documented - for being critical of the plays a long long time ago. But when the OC and - well let's face it -the organization turn the key over to the QB to improvise the control shifts dramatically. Ben's a risk-taker.

Now is it Arians waiting for the 30 yard route to break free? Is it the OC who is unwilling to take what the "defense is giving" because I see guys who aren't in double and triple coverage often.

NOW as far as running the ball against the Jags...

'Parker right tackle no gain'
'Parker left tackle no gain'
'B.Rothlisberger sacked for -8 yards'

The first drive of the game sums up the season.



I agree here, the OL is more of a run block team, because they are a Pittsburgh OL. We no longer have a bruiser to run the ball, don't get me wrong I like Willie, but he is not the Bus in the fact that Bettis could take it right up the middle and beat on the defense. Bradshaw was a thrower, but he still had two great backs, and so did Ben two years ago. The lack of that now hurts the whole team (moreso now later in the year), whoever the blame gets put on, and will until we get someone to compliment Willie or vice versa it will probably continue. I was kinda pissed when we didn't go after Jamal Lewis, call him old or tired, but he looks just fine to me.

moedap
12-17-2007, 08:26 AM
The offense does not operate very effeciently unless it is playing in a hurry up mode. This says to me that someone is thinking too much rather than just reading and reacting. Arians job is to think. It is Bens job to read and react.

Steel Pit
12-17-2007, 09:19 AM
If it were one or two players on the OL that were causing their inefficiency, I'd have to agree with you. In the Steelers' case, however, the entire OL is deficient. They have tried moving a couple of players around this season and the same inefficiency exists. The line needs a huge overhaul which isn't going to happen until the draft and the beginning of the free agency marathon.

I will certainly agree that the offensive line is deficient and needs a major overhaul.

The only problems that I have with Arians is that he knows better than any of us that the offensive line is well, lets just say weak. With that in mind he shouldn't even consider using any type of play-action pass plays.

The play-action pass play versus the Patriots, our 2nd play of the 2nd half, just made me sick. Ben initially faked a quick pass, then he fakes a handoff to Parker, an instant later Ben is flat on his back after being sacked. He barely had a chance to see it coming. The result, momentum killed, 2nd down and 18. And don't forget, this play occurred immediately after Parker's big run to start the 2nd half.

Come on GaL, can we at least agree on that? The play-action pass calls have got to go. Those plays are constantly putting the Steelers offense behind the chains.

Mosca
12-17-2007, 09:37 AM
Think about it. If the players can't actually do the blocking and tackling, then how can the problem be the game plan? That last play to Miller; if it had worked, wouldn't Arians be OK? One more block held another half second and Arians is a genius. And what about Lebeau, who has given us the league's #1 defense for most of the year; is he now a chump? Hardly. And the defensive players; aren't these the same guys who shut down the Seahawks, the high-flying Brownies, and others? Is it that the players lack heart, or are giving up? Sorry, I can't believe that. I've never seen a Steelers player give up. Even in the '60s, these guys have always given 100%.

The problem is that players who were good enough at the beginning of the season for people to be considering the Steelers as Super Bowl contenders are now worn out. They don't have the strength and quickness left in their bodies this late in the season.

I think it's time to look back at the controversy of the summer, the hard full-contact two-a-days and the full contact scrimmages that went into the first few weeks of the season, and ask if the coaches have done the right thing; by doing that, have they put the players in position to succeed late in the year?

Because it IS a coaching issue; it's just not Arians who has made the mistake, and it wasn't made yesterday. It was made in July and was made by Tomlin. His squad is done, and there are another two and a half months left.

My belief is that 2007 was the last year you will ever see him do that.

Rotorhead
12-17-2007, 10:21 AM
While I am not keen on Arians calls most of the time, the biggest issues I see are a complete lack of motivation. That is 100% the coaching staff. When the entire team comes out flat it is a reflection of the coaching staff, when they pretty much give up (until that lucky perfect pass/int to Smith) that is the coaching staff. They need some motivational classes in the off season!

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2007, 10:47 AM
The problem is that players who were good enough at the beginning of the season for people to be considering the Steelers as Super Bowl contenders are now worn out. They don't have the strength and quickness left in their bodies this late in the season.

I think it's time to look back at the controversy of the summer, the hard full-contact two-a-days and the full contact scrimmages that went into the first few weeks of the season, and ask if the coaches have done the right thing; by doing that, have they put the players in position to succeed late in the year?
.

I think it is more the schedule being backloaded with more road games and tougher teams. Few prognosticators had the Steelers going to the playoffs, let alone contending with the 4 AFC teams (Pats, Colts, Chargers & Ravens) regarded as the preseason class of the conference, so I do not think it is a case of burning out great veteran talent in camp (as opposed to Ben getting beat up and Parker run too much during th season).

Despite all the pre-camp talk about harsh two a days, a lot of the morning sessions were special teams walk throughs (a lot of good that did) and in other cases even those were scrubbed. Although he had his own axe to grind, Faneca said a lot of the stories on the grueling training camp were media hype.

The problems going into camp (shaky OL, no game breaker at WR, shaky pass defense) were masked during the cream puff early schedule. Add to that losing both starting safeties for significant periods of time + Aaron Smith and IMO it is simply this team returning to its natural level. I had the Steelers at 10-6 preseson (but underestimated how bad the Bengals & Ravens would be) - that may be about right.

The closest analogy to prior seasons I can come up with is 1996, when the Steelers started strong, were regarded as midseason SB contenders, but then unraveled down the stretch as Bettis wore down + Tzak at QB was exposed as a charade.

That team won a wild card game at home & then got blown out by the Pats on the road - that is the best case scenario for this team.

The_WARDen
12-17-2007, 11:14 AM
Watch it Bruce Arians is God around these parts.....You can't knock him...Still trying to figure that play on 4th and 7 at the end there.....It was designed for Miller no doubt...But why throw short of the first down marker on 4th down?.....Just retarded but I know the response....Ben changed the play and called that play to Miller...lol

That was the same STUPID call they made on 1st and goal from the 6 during the Patsies game in the 1st quarter. I was scratching my head then and now I'm just plain annoyed. GET RID OF THAT PLAY!!!

Counselor
12-17-2007, 12:03 PM
The O line is pretty weak. I think we can all agree on that. And the O line is very important. So why is it the OC fault. I mean what plays should he call. I believe that 22 points in a snow storm at home should be enough to win every time. This ' Arians doesnt know what he is doing' post is soooo tired.

Yep. And I find it ironic that no one is blaming LeBeau for the porous defense---which is what lost us the game---three times this year----Denver, NY, and Jax (all times where we came back to tie---only to lose because the Defense couldn't hold them)

I'm not saying we SHOULD blame LeBeau, I just find it ridiculous that all our energy is going to blaming the wrong unit. Sorry, but even with the swiss cheese offense line---its been the lapses in defense that have killed us this season.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2007, 12:46 PM
Yep. And I find it ironic that no one is blaming LeBeau for the porous defense---which is what lost us the game---three times this year----Denver, NY, and Jax (all times where we came back to tie---only to lose because the Defense couldn't hold them)

I'm not saying we SHOULD blame LeBeau, I just find it ridiculous that all our energy is going to blaming the wrong unit. Sorry, but even with the swiss cheese offense line---its been the lapses in defense that have killed us this season.

A big unanswered question is whether LeBeau has decided to go to bend but don't break with this personnel or whether Tomlin has a definitive say on that.

I am not saying if it goes well then hooray LeBeaua and if its goes sour shame on Tomlin, but this D is playing with either a different philosophy or is in conflict as to what approach to take.

The D lost yesterday's game in the second half - either they just wore down (20 play drives will do that) or Jax made the adjustments. Going for it repeatedly on 4th down showed Jax had no fear of that run D.

Sharkissle29
12-17-2007, 12:50 PM
And I'm not defending Arians because I'm on the record - and it's well documented - for being critical of the plays a long long time ago. But when the OC and - well let's face it -the organization turn the key over to the QB to improvise the control shifts dramatically. Ben's a risk-taker.

Now is it Arians waiting for the 30 yard route to break free? Is it the OC who is unwilling to take what the "defense is giving" because I see guys who aren't in double and triple coverage often.

NOW as far as running the ball against the Jags...

'Parker right tackle no gain'
'Parker left tackle no gain'
'B.Rothlisberger sacked for -8 yards'

The first drive of the game sums up the season.

That was early on when the running game wasnt working. But it sure opened up well. If this is the case, then parker really got 100 yards on 12 carries, over 8 yards per. I understand the recievers dropped balls, but it seems whenever the passing game isnt workin we pass more and whenever the running game isnt working we tend to run more. it baffles me....

Dino 6 Rings
12-17-2007, 01:22 PM
I agree, the play calling I find baffling at some points. I understand having to pass to come back, but why were we in that situation to begin with. They slowed our running game on the first drive of the game...but that isn't the reason to abonden it completely. The defense allowed Jacksonville to score before the half, and they allowed them to score 4 touchdowns. Not good enough on both sides of the ball. We have the play makers in place. This loss goes to coaching, on all sides of the ball.

SteelerFanInCA
12-17-2007, 01:22 PM
It all comes down to game plan execution. The dropped passes were killing me yesterday. :dang::dang:

SteelersJW
12-17-2007, 06:49 PM
I'm so sick of screens and and draw plays that don't work.

Preacher
12-17-2007, 07:11 PM
The problem with Bruce Arians is the fact that he is trying to call passing games... in a city with a fanbase that wants and expect run football.

I want Arians to stay. We are transferring to a balanced/pass offense. We have the weapons to do it. Now, we need the protection to do it. Anyone wonder why our blockers are having so many problems? Could it be because they were built for the RUN? It sure makes a team one dimensional.

And for those questioning the last play... if you are needing yards, and everyone is dropping back to protect against the long ball, it makes sense to throw it short and let your player get the yardage. The Jags played it right. After all, we DO play against another team that TRIES TO STOP US. Too many forget about that.

So let me see.

1 year... top running team. Ben excelling as QB, especially in fourth quarter comebacks. All this amid a horrible line, our top/second to top (Ward) receiver being hurt and out for a while this year, other top/second to top (Santo) receiver out with injury (and our deep threat).

Yep. Its all Arians fault. Fire him.

People, if I remember right, this is the same guy who coordinated a nothing offense in the Browns to almost beat us in the playoffs. Be patient.

Jman
12-17-2007, 07:26 PM
The problem with Bruce Arians is the fact that he is trying to call passing games... in a city with a fanbase that wants and expect run football.

I want Arians to stay. We are transferring to a balanced/pass offense. We have the weapons to do it. Now, we need the protection to do it. Anyone wonder why our blockers are having so many problems? Could it be because they were built for the RUN? It sure makes a team one dimensional.

And for those questioning the last play... if you are needing yards, and everyone is dropping back to protect against the long ball, it makes sense to throw it short and let your player get the yardage. The Jags played it right. After all, we DO play against another team that TRIES TO STOP US. Too many forget about that.

So let me see.

1 year... top running team. Ben excelling as QB, especially in fourth quarter comebacks. All this amid a horrible line, our top/second to top (Ward) receiver being hurt and out for a while this year, other top/second to top (Santo) receiver out with injury (and our deep threat).

Yep. Its all Arians fault. Fire him.

People, if I remember right, this is the same guy who coordinated a nothing offense in the Browns to almost beat us in the playoffs. Be patient.

Well put. :helmet:

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2007, 07:38 PM
The offense has been ineffective for most of the past 5 games - the only person who knows if Arians has been delivering that has a meaningful vote is Tomlin - let's see if Tomlin keeps Bruce around - I have my doubts

Ben is having a great year but Arians offensive scheme has had as much to do with many of Ben's successful plays as me yelling at the TV for Ben to look out.

The Duke
12-17-2007, 08:07 PM
The offense has been ineffective for most of the past 5 games - the only person who knows if Arians has been delivering that has a meaningful vote is Tomlin - let's see if Tomlin keeps Bruce around - I have my doubts

Ben is having a great year but Arians offensive scheme has had as much to do with many of Ben's successful plays as me yelling at the TV for Ben to look out.

so basically Arians has to find some balance on this offense, cause it's been great for Ben( 29 touchdowns already) but the negative is the o line is getting him killed on the field.

I would like to see Arians back next year, with a few new linemen protecting Ben maybe the offense changes. it changed a lot already this year with him at charge, so let's see what he can do with a few more weapons, that being o linemen

Preacher
12-17-2007, 08:26 PM
The problem is, we almost NEVEr pick up FA's that can come in and instantly make a difference. That means we have to pick up at least 2 or 3 O line from the draft that can come in and beat out the veterans.

What are our chances of that?

xXTheSteelKingsXx
12-17-2007, 08:43 PM
The problem is, we almost NEVEr pick up FA's that can come in and instantly make a difference. That means we have to pick up at least 2 or 3 O line from the draft that can come in and beat out the veterans.

What are our chances of that?

I agree. I'd like to see us pull a Browns(I cant believe I'm saying this) and bring in a good FA,like they did with Steinbach(in our case a center) and draft a stud tackle like they did in Joe Thomas.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2007, 09:21 PM
In his chat today Ed.B. from the P-G stated the experiment with Mahan at center may be a 1 year deal but also indicated the Steelers will not be big FA spenders:

Will the Steelers have the $ to be active in FA? And will they?

Ed Bouchette: You won't see them sign a lot, nor sign a big name. They have to sign Big Ben, though....

Ed, how do you rate Mahan so far? Is he a long term solution at center?

Ed Bouchette: I think they will be looking for a solution after the season.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07351/842383-66.stm

The Steelers have several O-linemen that they think may play better elsewhere (or at least not as poorly?) - the Simmons to C and Colon to G rumor keeps floating around, but the definitive statement as to how bad this OL has become is the recent chatter about maybe retaining Starks:dang:

I concede Arians has been asked to work with some awfully rusted parts

Preacher
12-17-2007, 11:02 PM
In his chat today Ed.B. from the P-G stated the experiment with Mahan at center may be a 1 year deal but also indicated the Steelers will not be big FA spenders:

Will the Steelers have the $ to be active in FA? And will they?

Ed Bouchette: You won't see them sign a lot, nor sign a big name. They have to sign Big Ben, though....

Ed, how do you rate Mahan so far? Is he a long term solution at center?

Ed Bouchette: I think they will be looking for a solution after the season.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07351/842383-66.stm

The Steelers have several O-linemen that they think may play better elsewhere (or at least not as poorly?) - the Simmons to C and Colon to G rumor keeps floating around, but the definitive statement as to how bad this OL has become is the recent chatter about maybe retaining Starks:dang:

I concede Arians has been asked to work with some awfully rusted parts

that is a GREAT way of putting it! and yeah, I wonder what happens if we have just a DECENT o line :hunch:

Glace
12-17-2007, 11:51 PM
Exactly...we have the talent.....I believe in the playcalling....our O-Line is just sucking big time. Ben doesn't have enough time to wait for receivers to get open. By the time they get close, Ben is running for his life and the receivers have to break their routes to try to bail him out.

We get our O-Line playing well, and you guys will join me in praising Arians.

MasterOfPuppets
12-18-2007, 12:05 AM
The problem is, we almost NEVEr pick up FA's that can come in and instantly make a difference. That means we have to pick up at least 2 or 3 O line from the draft that can come in and beat out the veterans.

What are our chances of that?EVERY linemen picked in the 1st & 2nd rd last year became starters......but we got two lb'ers that got in on 10% of the snaps...:thumbsup:....who needs good linemen ,when you got that kinda linebacker depth...:banging:

Steel Pit
12-18-2007, 12:05 AM
Exactly...we have the talent.....I believe in the playcalling....our O-Line is just sucking big time. Ben doesn't have enough time to wait for receivers to get open. By the time they get close, Ben is running for his life and the receivers have to break their routes to try to bail him out.

We get our O-Line playing well, and you guys will join me in praising Arians.

I'll praise Arians this year if he would just take notice of the problems that you've mentioned above and make some adjustments to alleviate the constant defensive pressure on Ben.

Many forum members act as if some of us are calling for Arians head simply because we complain about the gameplan. I'm not calling for his head. I just want to see some simple changes:

#1. Stop calling play-action pass plays. The offensive line will not give Ben enough time to have success with these types of plays.

#2. Shorten the 20-30 yard WR routes. It seems as if the Steelers WR's are running these long routes nearly every other down. Longer WR routes=a longer time that the O-line must maintain their blocks.

Glace
12-18-2007, 12:19 AM
I wouldn't mind a few more screen passes to Willie too.....Get Ward and Holmes out there blocking for him....get Willie in space.

Rhee Rhee
12-18-2007, 03:49 AM
Arians is coaching for his job the next 2 games

his job maybe not for the respect of steeler nation most definitely...

the rooneys always give a guy second and third chances... which means we'll see bruce for another 5 or 6 years... :dang::banging:

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 08:38 AM
his job maybe not for the respect of steeler nation most definitely...

the rooneys always give a guy second and third chances... which means we'll see bruce for another 5 or 6 years... :dang::banging:

Ray Sherman lasted 1 year as OC in 1998 and Kevin Gilbride lasted 2 years as I recall - Cowher usually sacrificed coaches if something was not going well although he let up on that once he had his own eyes on the exit sign - whether Tomlin would do that as a first year HC remains to be seen - if I coached the OL or special teams I would be making sure my resume is polished up

Michael Keller
12-18-2007, 09:08 AM
Watch it Bruce Arians is God around these parts.....You can't knock him...Still trying to figure that play on 4th and 7 at the end there.....It was designed for Miller no doubt...But why throw short of the first down marker on 4th down?.....Just retarded but I know the response....Ben changed the play and called that play to Miller...lol

I would hope that the play was not designed to go to Miller as the first option but the last option. If you are right and it was dsigned for Miller as the primary receiver I am extremely critical of the call.

My first reaction to that critical 4th and 7 call was that the pass to Miller would have been a good call on the previous third down.

Quite frankly this team has me totally frustrated this year more than any team in a long time. I do not think I am going to understand what is going on with the Steelers untill next year some time .

THERE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOME MAJOR CHANGES DURING THE OFF SEASON. THIS DOES NOT SEEM LIKE STEELER FOOTBALL AT ALL. WE ARE GETTING OUT MUSCLED WAYN TOO OFTEN.

sherlock
12-18-2007, 12:22 PM
This is a fantastic thread!..for a complete NFL novice like myself your comments have been a joy to read and also very educational.
Well constructed,insightful and knowledgeable...hat`s of to all of you :thumbsup:

HometownGal
12-18-2007, 12:25 PM
I wouldn't mind a few more screen passes to Willie too.....Get Ward and Holmes out there blocking for him....get Willie in space.

I'd like to see Najeh getting a few more, as well. He's made some nice gains with the screen. That was one of his +'s when we signed him - use him for God's sake!

ironpete0827
12-18-2007, 04:06 PM
I feel they should have pulled Marvel Smith alot earlier in the game, he was a liability all day.

IDSteeler
12-18-2007, 05:37 PM
I agree, they should have pulled Smith earlier. Heres an idea, the Patriots did this to us. Leave one, maybe two backs in the back field to help protect the passer. Its obvious our line cannot stop the rush, so what do you do, adapt and overcome. I have to question play calling/coaching on the 44 or so sacks we have had this year.

Sharkissle29
12-18-2007, 06:34 PM
The problem with Bruce Arians is the fact that he is trying to call passing games... in a city with a fanbase that wants and expect run football.

I want Arians to stay. We are transferring to a balanced/pass offense. We have the weapons to do it. Now, we need the protection to do it. Anyone wonder why our blockers are having so many problems? Could it be because they were built for the RUN? It sure makes a team one dimensional.

And for those questioning the last play... if you are needing yards, and everyone is dropping back to protect against the long ball, it makes sense to throw it short and let your player get the yardage. The Jags played it right. After all, we DO play against another team that TRIES TO STOP US. Too many forget about that.

So let me see.

1 year... top running team. Ben excelling as QB, especially in fourth quarter comebacks. All this amid a horrible line, our top/second to top (Ward) receiver being hurt and out for a while this year, other top/second to top (Santo) receiver out with injury (and our deep threat).

Yep. Its all Arians fault. Fire him.

People, if I remember right, this is the same guy who coordinated a nothing offense in the Browns to almost beat us in the playoffs. Be patient.

You guys are all making the same exact argument.....Willie is leading the league, ben is doing this......However, you all are failing to realize that we could be even better. This guy lacks play-calling knowledge, its pretty clear to see....Work with your weakness, i know our O-line sucks...so make an adjustment.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 06:39 PM
You guys are all making the same exact argument.....Willie is leading the league, ben is doing this......However, you all are failing to realize that we could be even better. This guy lacks play-calling knowledge, its pretty clear to see....Work with your weakness, i know our O-line sucks...so make an adjustment.

No.

The argument is that we have ALREADY worked with our weakness, and this is the result. We can get better... but it will take a draft to do it.

Why do you think Arians called the long run by Ward on the goal line play? My guess... because we CANT GO STRAIGHT UP THE MIDDLE, and we can't pass protect in that situation, where Ben rolls out and 4 players are right up on him.

Why do you think we call a dump pass this game? Because we have a 50/50 chance of Ben being tackled/sacked if we wait for our other players to run to the first down marker before Ben throws the ball.

Why do you think we have so many draw plays... Because our O line can't block anyways, so call plays that "play to that weakness."

I really believe that when people say "Arians play calling sucks." What they really mean is, "Arians play calling doesn't remind me of good ol' fashioned Steelers football."

It is time to realize, three yards and a cloud of dust is over.

It is over for three reasons.

1. Bettis is gone, and there are no more Bettis's on the horizon.

2. The O line that blocked for him is gone. Sure, some of the names are still there, but the line itself is gone.

3. The game has changed.

Once again. I come back to Arians keeping a Browns team competitive and hanging with us in the playoffs a few years ago, a team that had no reason or ability to be there.

Arians isn't the problem.

The players are.

br7
12-18-2007, 07:33 PM
I was a fan of his, but now im on the fence!
Lets see what happens the rest of the season and into the playoffs.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 08:26 PM
Tell that to the Jags they seem to do pretty well with that old worn out game plan. The game hasn't changed much in 50 years, we hired an O coord that believes in a spread O instead of power football. So far it doesn't seem to work that well, but we'll see.

Really?

How many SB's have the Jags won?

how many SB's have been won with a Power Game in the last 20 years?

HometownGal
12-18-2007, 08:45 PM
Why do you think Arians called the long run by Ward on the goal line play? My guess... because we CANT GO STRAIGHT UP THE MIDDLE, and we can't pass protect in that situation, where Ben rolls out and 4 players are right up on him.

Arians isn't the problem.

The players are.

Great post, Father. :cheers:

You are absolutely correct - we can't go up the middle anymore, at least not with any degree of continuity. Najeh can sometimes pick up that 1 or 2 yard we need, but FWP is not a north-south back - he is most successful going east-west and turning on the jets.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. A coach can teach and teach and teach until he is blue in the face, but when all is said and done, it is up to the players to execute what they were taught.

tony hipchest
12-18-2007, 09:17 PM
Really?

How many SB's have the Jags won?

how many SB's have been won with a Power Game in the last 20 years?off the top of my head-

giants
dallas
broncos
baltimore
patriots (1st maybe but theyre more finesse like 49ers)
tampa bay
steelers
colts (?)

i left out was., gb, and stl, but they could control the clock and grind it out too.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 09:28 PM
off the top of my head-

giants
dallas
broncos
baltimore
patriots (1st maybe but theyre more finesse like 49ers)
tampa bay
steelers
colts (?)

i left out was., gb, and stl, but they could control the clock and grind it out too.

Tony... I gotta disagree.

Colts are a pass first team. The pass sets up the run.
Steelers that year was a balanced team. Willie was starting, and we had gone far away from the three yards and a cloud of dust mentality.
Patriots never had a power run team.
Broncos also never had a power back. Remember, this is about the POWER run game. I wouldn't put the Bronco's here.
Dallas was balanced on run and pass. While they could run the ball, Emmit Smith could not hit a pile and move it three yards continuously.
I simply don't remember the Giants.


That leaves the Ravens and Tampa Bay. Now, I don't remember TB being a running team that move the pile 3 or 4 yards every run. But notice the one similarity between these two teams. They both had STIFLING defenses that year, which means in order to be a Power running team and win the SB, you have to have a defense that can stop all oncomers. 2 out of twenty equals 10 percent. I am not willing to go back to a football philosphy that wins the SB only 10 percent of the time. I would MUCH prefer a balanced offense... Such as Green Bay, Denver, Steelers, Colts, Patriots, etc. etc. The balanced approach can flex to a defenses weakness. A power run team cannot.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 10:31 PM
Tony... I gotta disagree.

Colts are a pass first team. The pass sets up the run.
Steelers that year was a balanced team. Willie was starting, and we had gone far away from the three yards and a cloud of dust mentality.
Patriots never had a power run team.
Broncos also never had a power back. Remember, this is about the POWER run game. I wouldn't put the Bronco's here.
Dallas was balanced on run and pass. While they could run the ball, Emmit Smith could not hit a pile and move it three yards continuously.
I simply don't remember the Giants.


That leaves the Ravens and Tampa Bay. Now, I don't remember TB being a running team that move the pile 3 or 4 yards every run. But notice the one similarity between these two teams. They both had STIFLING defenses that year, which means in order to be a Power running team and win the SB, you have to have a defense that can stop all oncomers. 2 out of twenty equals 10 percent. I am not willing to go back to a football philosphy that wins the SB only 10 percent of the time. I would MUCH prefer a balanced offense... Such as Green Bay, Denver, Steelers, Colts, Patriots, etc. etc. The balanced approach can flex to a defenses weakness. A power run team cannot.

Preacher

Have to disagree - a power running team is more than Marion Motley or Jim Taylor - it is the ability to move the sticks on the ground in the 4th quarter

My list

1986 Giants
1987 Redskins
1990 Giants
1991 Redskins
1992 Cowboys (Emmitt Smith between the tackles/power OL)
1993 Cowboys
1995 Cowboys
1997 Broncos (Elway did not do squat until Terrell Davis arrived)
1998 Broncos
2000 Ravens
2002 Tampa Bay
2004 Pats (look it up - 485 passes/524 rushes/Dillon - 1635 yards)
2005 Steelers (every playoff second half was Bettis pounding)

I do not concede pass first 2007 New England has reinvented football quite yet

You cannot defend calling flanker runs on 4th and goal by claiming that is the road to success in today's NFL - it may be due to a lousy OL but it is not because that is winning football

Preacher
12-18-2007, 10:40 PM
Preacher

Have to disagree - a power running team is more than Marion Motley or Jim Taylor

My list

1986 Giants
1987 Redskins
1990 Giants
1991 Redskins
1992 Cowboys (Emmitt Smith between the tackles/power OL)
1993 Cowboys
1995 Cowboys
1997 Broncos (Elway did not do squat until Terrell Davis arrived)
1998 Broncos
2000 Ravens
2002 Tampa Bay
2004 Pats (look it up - 485 passes/524 rushes/Dillon - 1635 yards)
2005 Steelers (every playoff second half was Bettis pounding)

I do not concede pass first 2007 New England has reinvented football quite yet

You cannot defend calling flanker runs on 4th and goal by claiming that is the road to success in the today's NFL - it may be due to a lousy OL but it is not because that is winning football

I think... between the three of us, we need to clarify what is meant.

When I say power running, what I mean, specifically, and meant in my original post, was a football team that can go out and WIN a game with the running game like the Steelers used to tried to do with Jerome. Would either of you say that the teams you have listed had the same type of running game that the Steelers had in the 90's with Bettis?

Except for a couple of them, I sure wouldn't.

Furthermore, my original argument was that for us to go back to the 90's style offense would be counterproductive, because the game has changed. I stand by that, because once again, we never won a SB with that style of play.

the 2005 SB run was won by a strong combination of PASS and run. In the same way, the Colts, Patriots, Rams, Denver, GB, Dallas San Francisco, and other teams one their superbowl(s). I am not stating that we need to be a 40 pass a game offense, just that we can't go back to running the ball up the middle for 150 yards killing 40 minutes off the clock. Why? Because WE NEVER WON A SB with that game plan. Heck, the only other time we GOT into the SB, we were experimenting with a number of different pass plays... back in the old Kordell slash days.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 11:01 PM
I think... between the three of us, we need to clarify what is meant.

When I say power running, what I mean, specifically, and meant in my original post, was a football team that can go out and WIN a game with the running game like the Steelers used to tried to do with Jerome. Would either of you say that the teams you have listed had the same type of running game that the Steelers had in the 90's with Bettis?

Except for a couple of them, I sure wouldn't.

No - that never worked in the playoffs with Bettis - I do not think anyone is contending you can win it all without a decent QB (in the last 20 years only the Ravens and Tampa Bay pulled that off) - my point is that I disagree that Arians eclectic play selection is riding the wave of football's future rather than overplaying the hand he has been dealt.

Unless you are New England, IMO any serious playoff contender will not win if, on 3rd and goal at the 1, it calls a fade pattern followed by a flanker run. Look at the short yardage play selections the Jags called on Sunday and the plays called by the Steelers in New England for the same down and distance and tell me which package works in 2007 - a weak interior OL is part of it but part of it also is Arians getting too cute for the team's own good, especially in inclement weather - this is not Madden 2008.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 11:08 PM
No - that never worked in the playoffs with Bettis - I do not think anyone is contending you can win it all without a decent QB (in the last 20 years only the Ravens and Tampa Bay pulled that off) - my point is that I disagree that Arians eclectic play selection is riding the wave of football's future rather than overplaying the hand he has been dealt.

Unless you are New England, IMO any serious playoff contender will not win if, on 3rd and goal at the 1, it calls a fade pattern followed by a flanker run. Look at the short yardage play selections the Jags called on Sunday and the plays called by the Steelers in New England for the same down and distance and tell me which package works in 2007 - a weak interior OL is part of it but part of it also is Arians getting too cute for the team's own good, especially in inclement weather - this is not Madden 2008.

AD... Now take that into context of this quote...
No.

The argument is that we have ALREADY worked with our weakness, and this is the result. We can get better... but it will take a draft to do it.

Why do you think Arians called the long run by Ward on the goal line play? My guess... because we CANT GO STRAIGHT UP THE MIDDLE, and we can't pass protect in that situation, where Ben rolls out and 4 players are right up on him.

Why do you think we call a dump pass this game? Because we have a 50/50 chance of Ben being tackled/sacked if we wait for our other players to run to the first down marker before Ben throws the ball.

Why do you think we have so many draw plays... Because our O line can't block anyways, so call plays that "play to that weakness."

I really believe that when people say "Arians play calling sucks." What they really mean is, "Arians play calling doesn't remind me of good ol' fashioned Steelers football."

It is time to realize, three yards and a cloud of dust is over.

It is over for three reasons.

1. Bettis is gone, and there are no more Bettis's on the horizon.

2. The O line that blocked for him is gone. Sure, some of the names are still there, but the line itself is gone.

3. The game has changed.

Once again. I come back to Arians keeping a Browns team competitive and hanging with us in the playoffs a few years ago, a team that had no reason or ability to be there.

Arians isn't the problem.

The players are.

Number 3 was what got this started. I stand by the fact that the game has changed. I was never arguing to what it has changed to, nor the best way to deal with it, just the fact that it has changed and the fact that we can't go back. that is all. That was my original intention.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 11:26 PM
Number 3 was what got this started. I stand by the fact that the game has changed. I was never arguing to what it has changed to, nor the best way to deal with it, just the fact that it has changed and the fact that we can't go back. that is all. That was my original intention.

The game always changes - I think we disagree how much it changes but may find out in late January - right now I think the team with the best chance to beat New England is one that can go on 20 play drives that eat up 10 minutes - the weakness of the Pats is stopping the run and Fred Taylor may be Bill Belichick's kryptonite in a game with weather like that present in the northeast last Sunday.

Preacher
12-18-2007, 11:38 PM
The game always changes - I think we disagree how much it changes but may find out in late January - right now I think the team with the best chance to beat New England is one that can go on 20 play drives that eat up 10 minutes - the weakness of the Pats is stopping the run and Fred Taylor may be Bill Belichick's kryptonite in a game with weather like that present in the northeast last Sunday.

What?

What are you talking about?

We will have beaten out the Jags in the first round!

(ahhhh....... homerism abounds!)

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 11:42 PM
What?

What are you talking about?

We will have beaten out the Jags in the first round!

(ahhhh....... homerism abounds!)

My chronic pessimism has the Jags beating the AFC North champ Browns and then going to New England while the wild card Steelers play the Chargers in the first round

tony hipchest
12-19-2007, 12:05 AM
I think... between the three of us, we need to clarify what is meant.

When I say power running, what I mean, specifically, and meant in my original post, was a football team that can go out and WIN a game with the running game like the Steelers used to tried to do with Jerome. Would either of you say that the teams you have listed had the same type of running game that the Steelers had in the 90's with Bettis?

Except for a couple of them, I sure wouldn't.

i guess by this definition we have just a few teams to choose from. pretty much those who have had

jim brown
earl campbell
franco harris
jerome bettis
okoye/word
mack/byner
jackson/allen

with that definition, only the steelers have won a sb with the "power run" game.

i forgot about the redskins whose 2 sb's in the last 20 years was built on the joe gibbs/j. riggins philosophy of power run.

emmit smith is the rushing yardage leader, and 3 sb's were won on his back. aikman doesnt hold any passing records and rarely threw for 300+ yards.

jamal lewis and terrel davis are the last 2 rb's to gain 2000+ yds. if theres 1 thing the broncos are known for in the last 10 years is their running game and mass producing 1000 yard backs. elway had 3 superbowl failures before they turned into what i would call a power running game.

giants sb mvp otis anderson helped control the ball for like 42 minutes against the bills in 90.

i also forgot about the dillon patriots that Dan noted. the early patriots were built to emmulate the steelers in just about every way.

i guess it all comes down to what ones opinion is of "power run". its kind of a subjective term.

Preacher
12-19-2007, 12:10 AM
i guess by this definition we have just a few teams to choose from. pretty much those who have had

jim brown
earl campbell
franco harris
jerome bettis
okoye/word
mack/byner
jackson/allen

with that definition, only the steelers have won a sb with the "power run" game.

i forgot about the redskins whose 2 sb's in the last 20 years was built on the joe gibbs/j. riggins philosophy of power run.

emmit smith is the rushing yardage leader, and 3 sb's were won on his back. aikman doesnt hold any passing records and rarely threw for 300+ yards.

jamal lewis and terrel davis are the last 2 rb's to gain 2000+ yds. if theres 1 thing the broncos are known for in the last 10 years is their running game and mass producing 1000 yard backs. elway had 3 superbowl failures before they turned into what i would call a power running game.

giants sb mvp otis anderson helped control the ball for like 42 minutes against the bills in 90.

i also forgot about the dillon patriots that Dan noted. the early patriots were built to emmulate the steelers in just about every way.

i guess it all comes down to what ones opinion is of "power run". its kind of a subjective term.

Exactly, but again, that was my original point. We Shouldn't go back to being that type of team (the type that I defined previously... which again, was my original point.

I consider the early patriots, Dallas, and the like to be a balance team. The Broncos' are probably the best balance team in the history we are discussing.

Matter of fact, because we have a QB that is much like elway, maybe we should look to emulate a bit of the Bronco's cross between run and pass.

sherlock
12-19-2007, 02:45 AM
Just a thought....could it be that Arians past as the OC for Celveland is a reason why he`s not too popular with some Steelers fans.Am I wrong in thinking that the Browns are the Steelers big rivals in the NFL?.i know for a fact that the Browns fans have some animosity towards Pittsburgh,they even have a website dedicated to putting down the Steelers!
In the UK there are many instances in soccer of managers/players moving to their biggest/local rivals and never really being accepted by the fans.
Am I talking bo**ocks! :blah: :smile:
Shall I get my coat?

Atlanta Dan
12-19-2007, 08:17 AM
Just a thought....could it be that Arians past as the OC for Celveland is a reason why he`s not too popular with some Steelers fans.Am I wrong in thinking that the Browns are the Steelers big rivals in the NFL?.i know for a fact that the Browns fans have some animosity towards Pittsburgh,they even have a website dedicated to putting down the Steelers!
In the UK there are many instances in soccer of managers/players moving to their biggest/local rivals and never really being accepted by the fans.
Am I talking bo**ocks! :blah: :smile:
Shall I get my coat?

Good question - although the Browns rivalry may be coming back, IMO the Bengals and Ravens have been the division rivals this decade.

My lack of enthusiasm for Arians may be tied to the pass happy play calling that got him fired in Cleveland but has nothing to do with him calling those plays in Cleveland.

Now if Marvin Lewis or Billick somehow ever landed in Pittsburgh, that would be a different matter.:smile:

ohiosteelerfan20
12-20-2007, 07:37 AM
Over the years, I have to say that everytime the Steelers lose it literally makes me sick to my gut. I usually never want to laugh or joke about anything right after the game. I guess I am just really down after a loss. But this year(my first at Steelers Fever), I have found a way to cheer myself up. I just read the post game threads. I have found the 'Troys not very good anymore' real funny, but my favorite is the 'Arians sucks and he does'nt know what he is doing' post. :sofunny: So please, all you post game OC's, make your posts here if the Steelers lose tonight or if they dont score 5 or 6 touchdowns so I can get a laugh.

Atlanta Dan
12-20-2007, 08:47 AM
I have found a way to cheer myself up. I just read the post game threads. I have found the 'Troys not very good anymore' real funny, but my favorite is the 'Arians sucks and he does'nt know what he is doing' post. :sofunny:

Glad my posts challenging Arians make you feel better:smile:

Please share your thoughts on whether you also find it funny that Arians pretty much admitted this week that he had a brain cramp regarding his play caling down at the goal line in the Patriots game.

If he had it to do again, Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians would do it differently in New England.

Faced with third-and-goal at the Patriots' 1 at the outset of the fourth quarter Dec. 9, Arians called for a run with an option to check into a fade pass for wide receiver Santonio Holmes if necessary. The Steelers checked out of their initial play upon observing the Patriots' alignment at the line of scrimmage, and the subsequent pass to Holmes fell incomplete.

On fourth-and-goal from the 1, the Steelers came out in an empty-backfield set and tried a sweep to wide receiver Hines Ward, who was in motion prior to the snap. Ward was stopped for no gain.

"A couple of unusual calls," Arians said Wednesday.

A touchdown would have pulled the Steelers only to within 31-20 in a game they lost, 34-13.

So it's difficult to perceive the failure to find the end zone in that instance as decisive. But Arians nonetheless regrets his choice of calls.

"I thought we had Hines in on the little reverse we've been working on for 10 weeks," Arians said. "That's the first time it's ever been stopped. It would have worked. We got a little surprised on the way they adjusted and got knocked back. We should have knocked them back and walked in (to the end zone)."

The Patriots moved 89 yards for a field goal on their subsequent possession and assumed a 21-point lead with 7:04 remaining.

"Going back in retrospect, we'd have taken our goal-line offense and gone at it," Arians said. "We got it down there with a shovel pass. I wish we'd have gone back into a power mode at that time, a goal-line package.

"I liked those plays for what they did on the goal line. (The Patriots) had a little unusual goal-line defense. We thought we could get the match-up we wanted. We did, but it was more for from the 3-yard line than the 1-yard line. That's a call that's from the 3."

Arians suspected his second-guessing of himself, such as it was, was a first in his tenure as the Steelers' offensive coordinator.

"Probably," he said. "It's not one I've thought many times about." :dang:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_543421.html

If the OC is still bothered about play calls made 10 days ago and admits a week after the game he was not calling the proper plays for that down and distance, fans are not out of line for continung to be pi**ed off about it.

IMO Tomlin and Arians had a little chat about that seres of calls, just like they had a talk about Arians play calling in the first half of the Denver game.

ohiosteelerfan20
12-20-2007, 09:10 AM
:sly:Well lets hope that Arians can call a perfect game from here on out.

HometownGal
12-20-2007, 09:49 AM
:sly:Well lets hope that Arians can call a perfect game from here on out.

Let's also hope that the players can execute on that perfect game plan. :wink02:

Atlanta Dan
12-20-2007, 09:55 AM
:sly:Well lets hope that Arians can call a perfect game from here on out.

I will settle for competence:cheers:

ohiosteelerfan20
12-20-2007, 09:55 PM
Looks like Arians is being competent so far .

HometownGal
12-20-2007, 09:58 PM
Looks like Arians is being competent so far huh.

:thumbsup: And the guys are executing. :cheers:

therocksteeler
12-20-2007, 11:28 PM
Not real pleased with tonights sideline play calling overall. Consideration for next year for B.A. dismiss?.......possible in my opinion.

X-Terminator
12-20-2007, 11:33 PM
Not real pleased with tonights sideline play calling overall. Consideration for next year for B.A. dismiss?.......possible in my opinion.

I sincerely hope you're joking.

The Duke
12-20-2007, 11:43 PM
Arians playcalling was great tonight. best play- sepulveda's fake. I knew that kid will either run it or throw it sometime before the season was over.

I have complained about Bruce many times, but today he did great

X-Terminator
12-21-2007, 12:04 AM
Arians playcalling was great tonight. best play- sepulveda's fake. I knew that kid will either run it or throw it sometime before the season was over.

I have complained about Bruce many times, but today he did great

It's what happens when the players execute the game plan successfully. But nah, let's pin it all on the OC when things go wrong instead - it's so much easier!

Preacher
12-21-2007, 12:46 AM
It's what happens when the players execute the game plan successfully. But nah, let's pin it all on the OC when things go wrong instead - it's so much easier!

X-term...

Yep.

not much else to say.

eafratitpm3
12-21-2007, 01:13 AM
I thought the play calling was okay, there is still room for improvement. The last time the Steelers had the ball prior to the Half IMO was shitty play calling. Your QB has been getting hit the whole first half and you drop him back 5-7 yds why not call a three step drop and throw it quick, either a deep pass or quick slant. We were in perfect position on the 40 yd line with 54 seconds left in the half and ended up giving the ball back to them with 31 seconds. Against a good team this will kill us.

fansince'76
12-21-2007, 01:30 AM
The last time the Steelers had the ball prior to the Half IMO was shitty play calling....We were in perfect position on the 40 yd line with 54 seconds left in the half and ended up giving the ball back to them with 31 seconds. Against a good team this will kill us.

Yep, the Rams came within about 20 yards of getting a solid FG try out of it as well. That was the only point of the game I took issue with the play selection, really. I would have preferred just playing it safe and just running out the clock, considering it was another less-than-stellar game for the D and STs. In the end, we won a game we needed to win, and that's all that ultimately matters.

tony hipchest
12-21-2007, 01:53 AM
I thought the play calling was okay, there is still room for improvement. The last time the Steelers had the ball prior to the Half IMO was shitty play calling. Your QB has been getting hit the whole first half and you drop him back 5-7 yds why not call a three step drop and throw it quick, either a deep pass or quick slant. We were in perfect position on the 40 yd line with 54 seconds left in the half and ended up giving the ball back to them with 31 seconds. Against a good team this will kill us.
a deep pass on a 3 step drop?

not even the best qb's pull that off. that would be either one hell of a miracle rainbow pass, or hail mary bomb (before getting flattened by the rush) at the end of a half.

jjpro11
12-21-2007, 01:54 AM
a deep pass on a 3 step drop?

not even the best qb's pull that off. that would be either one hell of a miracle rainbow pass, or hail mary bomb (before getting flattened by the rush) at the end of a half.

i think the defense would have to be in field goal block formation to pull that off. lol

Edman
12-21-2007, 02:02 AM
What a difference a short week makes when the players actually execute the game plan. Arians is a genius now.

Sharkissle29
12-21-2007, 07:15 PM
What a difference a short week makes when the players actually execute the game plan. Arians is a genius now.

one decent game doesnt dictate an entire season of bad play calling.

ohiosteelerfan20
12-21-2007, 07:36 PM
An entire season of bad play calling? Ben's best year ever and a 10 and 5 record. I wish we could get some good play calling:rolleyes: Hell we might be 11 and 4 with some good play calling.

revefsreleets
12-22-2007, 08:36 PM
This thread is exactly why I stayed away from SF for a week. It was needed therapy, as the constant ignorance and idiocy was challenging my sanity.

The most brilliant offensive mind who posted on this thread qualifies to wash Bruce Arians laminated play sheets for the week. Barely.

My favorite is the guy who keeps calling for the Steelers to stop running the play action fake. There needs to be a special award for this "offensive genius". When I say special, I mean that in the most demeaning and awful terms like short bus riding retarded special.

X-Terminator
12-22-2007, 08:41 PM
This thread is exactly why I stayed away from SF for a week. It was needed therapy, as the constant ignorance and idiocy was challenging my sanity.

You and me both, man. I stayed away from this board until Thursday myself - I had to, or I was going to lose my friggin mind.

MasterOfPuppets
12-23-2007, 12:32 AM
You and me both, man. I stayed away from this board until Thursday myself - I had to, or I was going to lose my friggin mind.i rode it out....:popcorn:

Preacher
12-23-2007, 02:18 AM
i rode it out....:popcorn:

LOL... yeah..