PDA

View Full Version : Holmes calls out the O-Line....


Glace
12-17-2007, 10:48 PM
"He came in at halftime and said, 'We gotta stop letting Ben get sacked,' " wide receiver Santonio Holmes said of coach Mike Tomlin's address to his team. "It didn't show. It continued to happen. He was forced out of the pocket too many times and forced to throw the ball away half the time and not where he wanted to put it."


Thoughts?

Obviously Tomlin is getting upset with the line too....but for Holmes to come out and bring that to the media.....that's saying something.

The Duke
12-17-2007, 10:52 PM
that sounds like tomlin said that and santonio just repeated to the media what tomlin said. I think.....

fansince'76
12-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Yeah, of course they need to reduce the number of sacks Ben has taken all season - whether they are physically capable of doing so is another story. This line has gotten to the point of needing to be completely blown up and rebuilt. Hopefully this can be accomplished before Ben's career is ended prematurely.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
12-17-2007, 10:58 PM
"He came in at halftime and said, 'We gotta stop letting Ben get sacked,' " wide receiver Santonio Holmes said of coach Mike Tomlin's address to his team. "It didn't show. It continued to happen. He was forced out of the pocket too many times and forced to throw the ball away half the time and not where he wanted to put it."


Thoughts?

Obviously Tomlin is getting upset with the line too....but for Holmes to come out and bring that to the media.....that's saying something.

Tonight on Stan Savran's show he said that Smith's back was still hurt and he was having a hard time walking today. Marvel if you back is hurting and that makes you unable to protect our franchise QB blindside then you need to suck it up and sit your ASS down on the bench because your going to get him killed. 43 sacks is NOT an option.

#7's jersey should NEVER be dirty.

jjpro11
12-18-2007, 12:00 AM
well its about time they get a kick in the ass.. its no secret they suck... its hurting holmes too because he has no time to run his route. every other play his route gets altered because he has to come back and try to help out ben who is running for his life.

Borski
12-18-2007, 12:48 AM
#7's jersey should NEVER be dirty.

I don't mind if its dirty because he ran it in for a TD and dove into mud in the endzone:tt02:



BTW - this is my 1,000th post :partay::celebrate::party::dancing::toast:

Rhee Rhee
12-18-2007, 02:32 AM
im glad someone besides everyone here at steelersfever noticed that ben was getting sacked too much.

Galax Steeler
12-18-2007, 03:54 AM
If anybody watches any games at all they would know he gets sacked to much you can't miss it.

TackleMeBen
12-18-2007, 08:26 AM
they did a stat on one of the shows sunday saying that in the last 6 games i think he has been sacked like 20 some times.. that is crazy.

AFC
12-18-2007, 08:40 AM
The O-line makes me cry.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 08:40 AM
Everyone knows the OL is horrible, but Santonio calling out the O-line by apparently saying the mess continued after Tomlin said it needed to stop at halftime is the same as if Ben called out Santonio for breaking of the crossing pattern in the first quarter where Ben looked pi**ed. I would prefer the criticisms to come from the HC.

No big deal but other position players calling out the OL is not a good sign, especially if Smith was gutting it out at LT when he got scorched on Sunday and can barely walk - if injuries are no excuse, maybe the OL can call out Santonio for not being the deep threat everyone expected this year.:smile:

The_WARDen
12-18-2007, 08:48 AM
"He came in at halftime and said, 'We gotta stop letting Ben get sacked,' " wide receiver Santonio Holmes said of coach Mike Tomlin's address to his team. "It didn't show. It continued to happen. He was forced out of the pocket too many times and forced to throw the ball away half the time and not where he wanted to put it."


Thoughts?

Obviously Tomlin is getting upset with the line too....but for Holmes to come out and bring that to the media.....that's saying something.

Good at least they're not blind. The Oline needs overhauled next season.

The_WARDen
12-18-2007, 08:49 AM
Everyone knows the OL is horrible, but Santonio calling out the O-line by apparently saying the mess continued after Tomlin said it needed to stop at halftime is the same as if Ben called out Santonio for breaking of the crossing pattern in the first quarter where Ben looked pi**ed. I would prefer the criticisms to come from the HC.

No big deal but other position players calling out the OL is not a good sign, especially if Smith was gutting it out at LT when he got scorched on Sunday and can barely walk - if injuries are no excuse, maybe the OL can call out Santonio for not being the deep threat everyone expected this year.:smile:


I don't mind it...it good to see emotion out of someone on this team.

rbryan
12-18-2007, 08:54 AM
In Tomlins press conference yesterday he was asked a question about Holmes calling out the defense. Maybe the reporter was confused, but either way thats not a positive IMO. Holmes needs to STFU. Or at least keep this stuff in house where it belongs. Nothing good ever comes from pointing fingers once the media gets a hold of the story.

FourThreeMafia
12-18-2007, 08:54 AM
Holmes is just saying what everyone else is thinking. I really have no problem with it at all.

It does attest to how good Ben has been though. Of the top 10 rated passers in the league, Ben has obviously been sacked the most with 43. The 2nd most is Matt Hasslebeck with 29, but he has dropped back to pass about 125 more times than Ben. If Ben dropped back that much, he might be dead right now because he wouldve been sacked about 75 times by now. Factor in how many sacks Ben has broken out of, and he probably wouldve been sacked 100 times by now.

Jeez, can you people imagine what kind of stats Ben wouldve had if he:

A) had an OLine that could pass block even REMOTELY well...
B) had Holmes healthy all year or had other recievers that could catch the ball consistantly.

and...

C) Didnt have to play several games in awful conditions

People keep giving Romo a ton of credit, but he has played alot of his games in doors or in decent weather on better fields. Ben has put up his stats behind an inept OLine with less weapons.

Steeldude
12-18-2007, 08:58 AM
im glad someone besides everyone here at steelersfever noticed that ben was getting sacked too much.

it's been happening since maddox was the QB. but some fans decided it was better to blame maddox for the poor O-line in 2003.

this O-line has been getting worse each and every since 2002. ther reached for simmons int he 1st round and it has been a disaster. he no longer has the help of a good center and RT to help him out.

HometownGal
12-18-2007, 08:59 AM
Yeah, of course they need to reduce the number of sacks Ben has taken all season - whether they are physically capable of doing so is another story. This line has gotten to the point of needing to be completely blown up and rebuilt. Hopefully this can be accomplished before Ben's career is ended prematurely.

I am shocked that Ben hasn't been hurt seriously this season. The entire OL needs an overhaul and sooner rather than later. Thank God Ben is as tough a kid as he is.

Whether he repeated what Tomlin said or not - kudos, Santo, for speaking up. I hope others have spoken up in the locker room as well - might get those guys torqued off enough to start doing their jobs. :cheers:

Counselor
12-18-2007, 09:37 AM
Maybe it's not the line and it's the oline coach. I hear a lot of people call out Arians, but I never hear anyone mention Zierlein, atleast not since Porngate. The players havn't changed that much just shuffled around where the coach wants them and all of a sudden a strength is a major weakness.

People say you win by Running and stopping the Run, but I wonder if it should be Sacking and not getting sacked. I'll have to check some stats.

Yeah except they sucked last year too with Russ Grimm---and just take away another pro-bowler in Hartings....not surprising they are worse.

BlastFurnace
12-18-2007, 09:46 AM
Realistically, for next season what are our options:

Simmons...who never should have been re-signed will be back. He already gets bulldozed at RT and there is talk of putting him at Center. I can't imagine what a Pat Williams or the guy in San Diego at NT would do to poor Kendall.

Mahan who never should have been signed in the first place will be back.

Max Starks...has played two nice games at LT, but does not have quick feet. Thursday night's game on that fast turf will tell us if Max can play LT under good conditions. Problem is, if he does show well, his price goes up after this season. The last thing we want is another salary like the one we gave to Kendall Simmons weighing us down.

Colon...he's decent, but nothing special enough that he can't be replaced.

Faneca...we all know he is gone.

Smith looks to be on his last leg. I'll give him credit for giving it a go last weekend, but he should have sat out.

We don't know enough about Stapleton and Kemo. Essex...unless he and Barry Bonds get together on a training regimin (if you know what I mean), he is not going to make it.

You know, Timmons and Woodley may end up being nice picks, but we really needed that OL addressed in last years draft. Ben Grubbs, who Baltimore got, would have been a much wiser choice than Timmons. Not sexier, but wiser.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 09:59 AM
In Tomlins press conference yesterday he was asked a question about Holmes calling out the defense. Maybe the reporter was confused, but either way thats not a positive IMO. Holmes needs to STFU. Or at least keep this stuff in house where it belongs. Nothing good ever comes from pointing fingers once the media gets a hold of the story.

Given the recent history of writing checks with your mouth that somene else needs to cash for you, maybe Holmes can issue a guarantee the OL will play well Thursday night and that the Rams DL is going to get hit harder than it has been hit all season.:smile:

FourThreeMafia
12-18-2007, 10:01 AM
Realistically, for next season what are our options:

Simmons...who never should have been re-signed will be back. He already gets bulldozed at RT and there is talk of putting him at Center. I can't imagine what a Pat Williams or the guy in San Diego at NT would do to poor Kendall.

Mahan who never should have been signed in the first place will be back.

Max Starks...has played two nice games at LT, but does not have quick feet. Thursday night's game on that fast turf will tell us if Max can play LT under good conditions. Problem is, if he does show well, his price goes up after this season. The last thing we want is another salary like the one we gave to Kendall Simmons weighing us down.

Colon...he's decent, but nothing special enough that he can't be replaced.

Faneca...we all know he is gone.

Smith looks to be on his last leg. I'll give him credit for giving it a go last weekend, but he should have sat out.

We don't know enough about Stapleton and Kemo. Essex...unless he and Barry Bonds get together on a training regimin (if you know what I mean), he is not going to make it.

You know, Timmons and Woodley may end up being nice picks, but we really needed that OL addressed in last years draft. Ben Grubbs, who Baltimore got, would have been a much wiser choice than Timmons. Not sexier, but wiser.

I wish we wouldve drafted Logan Mankins instead of Heath Miller in 2005. I love Heath, but we Mankins is the best guard in the league right now and TE is not a HUGE need in our offense.

Last draft, I wish we wouldve traded down, took Ryan Kalil and Woodley.

Our OLine would look like this next year

Smith/Rookie
Mankins
Kalil
Colon/Simmons/Rookie
Rookie/Smith

BUT. sadly, thats not the case.

Our OLine will most likely suck again next year. I dont think Faneca leaving will hurt as much as people think. He has been nothing special this year.

Extending Simmons was a mistake. Im sure they realize that now. I think they saw improvement from him in the preseason, and figured with Starks and Faneca about to leave, they needed to resign him. What a mistake.

I think Colon will be a good guard. He is too short limbed to play T on our OLine..

Mahan looks like a FA bust.

I dont know what the front office will do. They dug their own grave by ignoring the OLine this long. Now, they have to play catchup. Not a good position to be in, especially considering we have alot of other needs as well.

rbryan
12-18-2007, 10:02 AM
This Oline situation isn't going to get fixed anytime soon. I think your right, Oline needed to be addressed in the draft last year. It really bugs me that we spent a number one on a guy who is only playing special teams. A defensive #1 needs to be a player with immediate impact not a project for down the road.

memphissteelergirl
12-18-2007, 10:04 AM
I am shocked that Ben hasn't been hurt seriously this season. The entire OL needs an overhaul and sooner rather than later. Thank God Ben is as tough a kid as he is.

Whether he repeated what Tomlin said or not - kudos, Santo, for speaking up. I hope others have spoken up in the locker room as well - might get those guys torqued off enough to start doing their jobs. :cheers:


:thumbsup:

Hear, here!!

Steeldude
12-18-2007, 10:04 AM
This Oline situation isn't going to get fixed anytime soon. I think your right, Oline needed to be addressed in the draft last year. It really bugs me that we spent a number one on a guy who is only playing special teams. A defensive #1 needs to be a player with immediate impact not a project for down the road.

O-line should have been addressed back in 2002. simmons was a reach in the 1st round.

BlastFurnace
12-18-2007, 10:09 AM
This Oline situation isn't going to get fixed anytime soon. I think your right, Oline needed to be addressed in the draft last year. It really bugs me that we spent a number one on a guy who is only playing special teams. A defensive #1 needs to be a player with immediate impact not a project for down the road.

Agree on that. Hopefully, Timmons and Woodley will be on the field next season on a regular basis to justify picking them...although I have doubts that Woodley has the speed / agility to play LOLB in the 3-4 scheme.

The 1st round pick next year better be a OL.

rbryan
12-18-2007, 10:10 AM
Maybe a trade?? Thinking about picking up anyone decent in FA is a scary thought with what the market will be for a top O Lineman these days.

IMO its in both parties best interest for Faneca to move on. Too much has been said to kiss and make up. I see us drafting OL next year like we did the LB position this year. Thats going to be a tough transition though with 2 rookies.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2007, 10:11 AM
This Oline situation isn't going to get fixed anytime soon. I think your right, Oline needed to be addressed in the draft last year. It really bugs me that we spent a number one on a guy who is only playing special teams. A defensive #1 needs to be a player with immediate impact not a project for down the road.

Timmons was Tomlin's guy after he was sinking on other draft boards - IMO they were afraid Harrison would bomb out at starter and figured Farrior & Haggans were slipping, so once Woodley was still on the board they snapped him up too Then they drafted a TE + traded up for a punter and the next thing you knew it was round 5:dang:

This year is supposed to be a better OL year, but with Faneca leaving and Smith ailing that entire OL needs to be retooled. You cannot do that in one year of drafting & second tier FA signings.

I think Faneca's snit was not only about $$ but grieving over Whiz & Grimm - unfortunately positions hardened & the Steelers hit the panic button by resigning Simmons - I know the Steelers policy is if you are not re-signed going into the last year of your contract you leave, but the OL negotiations have been botched completely. There are not enough $$ to keep Faneca even if he wanted to stay + his play this year supported what he will be getting elsewhere.

MACH1
12-18-2007, 10:14 AM
Holmes is just as frustrated as we all are at the o-line. Someone needs to step up and tell them what we all know. As far as faneca goes he'll finish out the season without getting himself hurt so he can move on to greener pastures and a greener wallet.

Steeldude
12-18-2007, 10:25 AM
Timmons was Tomlin's guy after he was sinking on other draft boards - IMO they were afraid Harrison would bomb out at starter and figured Farrior & Haggans were slipping, so once Woodley was still on the board they snapped him up too Then they drafted a TE + traded up for a punter and the next thing you knew it was round 5:dang:

This year is supposed to be a better OL year, but with Faneca leaving and Smith ailing that entire OL needs to be retooled. You cannot do that in one year of drafting & second tier OL signings.

I think Faneca's snit was not only about $$ but grieving over Whiz & Grimm - unfortunately positions hardened & the Steelers hit the panic button by resigning Simmons - I know the Steelers policy is if you are not re-signed going into the last year of your contract you leave, but the OL negotiations have been botched completely and there are not enough $$ to keep Faneca even if he wanted to stay + his play this year supported what he will be getting elsewhere.


good post.

i hope tomlin is a good judge of talent. but i wonder if he envisioned timmons more for the cover-2 than the steelers 3-4 blitz scheme.

i would like to add one more LB into the mix. foote may not be slipping like haggans and farrior, but that's probably because he doesn't have far to slip:smile: i have never been impressed with foote. he is out of position too often and is weak at the point of attack.

perhaps timmons at ROLB next season and harrison at RILB. unless timmons can play RILB. i am not sure how harrison's lateral movement will be playing inside, but the guy is a bull and he nis always hustling, unlike some players i see on the field.

i agree with you that the steelers cannot fix this O-line problem in one season. i have been posting about the steelers neglecting the O-line for many seasons. all i see are linemen who would be backups on other teams. well besides a healthy smith and if faneca remained.

br7
12-18-2007, 06:24 PM
"He came in at halftime and said, 'We gotta stop letting Ben get sacked,' " wide receiver Santonio Holmes said of coach Mike Tomlin's address to his team. "It didn't show. It continued to happen. He was forced out of the pocket too many times and forced to throw the ball away half the time and not where he wanted to put it."


Thoughts?

Obviously Tomlin is getting upset with the line too....but for Holmes to come out and bring that to the media.....that's saying something.


where did you see this?

LVSteelersfan
12-18-2007, 07:33 PM
The Steelers better not pick any players in the draft in the first few rounds EXCEPT FOR TACKLES, GUARDS and CENTER. They need to start working on getting some new talent up to speed and I doubt they will pay for Free Agents that are worth anything. It is our most pressing need in the upcoming draft. If they let Feneca get away which is almost a given, then we are in deep doo doo.

Elvis
12-18-2007, 07:53 PM
:jawdrop:
I honestly cannot believe that Alen Faneca has made another pro bowl... Just blows my mind. The man gives up atleast one big tackle or sack Every Game!!!
I dont remember who it was that said that Santonio Holmes is Not the Big Play threat that the Steelers thought he would be... have you watched the games that he has played in and the games that he hasnt played in? I guess you must be seeing something that I havent been seeing. The man is averaging 17 yards a catch and he stretches the field better than any of the other Steeler recievers do. Hines is Not A Deep threat unless Ben has 10 seconds to let him get down the field about 50 yards.
:tt02:

Preacher
12-18-2007, 07:58 PM
The Steelers better not pick any players in the draft in the first few rounds EXCEPT FOR TACKLES, GUARDS and CENTER. They need to start working on getting some new talent up to speed and I doubt they will pay for Free Agents that are worth anything. It is our most pressing need in the upcoming draft. If they let Feneca get away which is almost a given, then we are in deep doo doo.

Let him get away? Are you kidding me? I say open up the door and put a foot on his butt to help him out.

:wave:

He has blown plays, he has blown blocks, he is starting to go downhill.

His name instills a lot more fear then his ability.

Steeldude
12-19-2007, 07:41 AM
:jawdrop:
I honestly cannot believe that Alen Faneca has made another pro bowl... Just blows my mind. The man gives up atleast one big tackle or sack Every Game!!!


the pro bowl hasn't meant a thing since the 80's and possible early 90's. it's all about popularity and veteran status now. the last pro bowl i watched was back in the early 90's. they should do away with it.

BlastFurnace
12-19-2007, 09:20 AM
the pro bowl hasn't meant a thing since the 80's and possible early 90's. it's all about popularity and veteran status now. the last pro bowl i watched was back in the early 90's. they should do away with it.

When our guys make the Pro Bowl, my only concern is that they don't tear up a knee or something like that. I wish they would do away with the game as well.

coachspeak33
12-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Faneca is definitely not getting any better....but I wouldnt mind them franchising his ass and getting one more yr out of him cause otherwise we will get to see Colbert/Rooney bring in another "Mahan-like underachiever"

Draft OL help....keep Faneca around for one more season and groom the drafted OL help

Stlr4ever
12-19-2007, 11:23 AM
If anybody watches any games at all they would know he gets sacked to much you can't miss it.

Yup, it's hard for any QB to operate if has to run for his life on every play or if he is in the process of getting hit or if he is on his posterior. If he had an OL as good as that of Brady, he would have been one of the better QBs in the league.

tony hipchest
12-19-2007, 11:29 AM
has anyone mentionned that ben may just suck at calling the protection schemes for the line?

hes not used to doing it and neither is the line. im sure the savvy veteran hartings used to call these in the past, and mayhan wasnt able to step up and assume those duties.

Atlanta Dan
12-19-2007, 12:37 PM
has anyone mentionned that ben may just suck at calling the protection schemes for the line?

hes not used to doing it and neither is the line. im sure the savvy veteran hartings used to call these in the past, and mayhan wasnt able to step up and assume those duties.

I raised that point a couple of weeks ago, but I do not know what scheme could have been called to help Marvel ("The Human Turnstile") Smith on Sunday.

Does anyone know if most QBs call the schemes or if that usually is an OL responsbility - if the intent was to build Ben's self-esteem by letting him do something Peyton & Brady do the fact it may get him injured is not a good trade-off.

Another point is Ben never quitting on play can lead to both big gains and lost of sacls becuase he will not simply get rid of the ball.

Add to that a WR corps that strikes fear in no team + the only alternative to a 5-7 step drop on passes being the WR toss in the flat (just like a running play!) and there are reasons besides the OL being awful for all the sacks.

SteelersJW
12-19-2007, 06:35 PM
He's right. We can't do shit on offense if we're gonna let Ben get knocked on his ass every other play. We gotta protect Ben and open up running lanes for Willie. Right now that's not happening.