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Bill
12-30-2007, 11:44 AM
With all the talk about the offense, the real problem is the defense. Big Ben has to bring them back from behind too many times. I don't care if the defense is statistically number one, they don't put enough pressure on the QB. Their only pressure comes from blitzing and then they get burned when the the opposing team picks up the blitz.

Tomlin should go to the 4-3, which he prefers. His defense was strong in Minnesota and he also learned under Dungy in Tampa Bay. Tampa's defense was very tough up front with a young Warren Sapp and Booger McFarland up front. They left linebackers like Derrick Brooks free to run and pursue.

Maybe I still miss the real Steel Curtain of the 1970's when the front four dominated and created tons of pressure on their own. I think they should go back to the 4-3, and that means it's time for LeBeau to retire.

Preacher
12-30-2007, 11:49 AM
With all the talk about the offense, the real problem is the defense. Big Ben has to bring them back from behind too many times. I don't care if the defense is statistically number one, they don't put enough pressure on the QB. Their only pressure comes from blitzing and then they get burned when the the opposing team picks up the blitz.

Tomlin should go to the 4-3, which he prefers. His defense was strong in Minnesota and he also learned under Dungy in Tampa Bay. Tampa's defense was very tough up front with a young Warren Sapp and Booger McFarland up front. They left linebackers like Derrick Brooks free to run and pursue.

Maybe I still miss the real Steel Curtain of the 1970's when the front four dominated and created tons of pressure on their own. I think they should go back to the 4-3, and that means it's time for LeBeau to retire.


:sofunny:

Strap on the helmet.

While i don't agree with you... it is intriguing to read....

stillers4me
12-30-2007, 12:04 PM
Be careful what you wish for.

HometownGal
12-30-2007, 12:05 PM
While I've been a bit unhappy about the lack of a consistent pass rush this season, I really can't say I have a problem with Dick Lebeau as a DC. The Steelers D suffered injuries to several key players this season and though some might say the backups should be ready to step in, it isn't always that simple. Aaron Smith's season ending injury was a HUGE blow to the Steelers front line, as well. If the Steelers should win the SB this season, I look for Lebeau to hang up his hat, but I, for one, wouldn't mind if he stayed on until he decides it's time.

cubanstogie
12-30-2007, 12:31 PM
No matter how successful someone is or has been there is always a time to pass the torch. There was no possible way Tomlin would not have brought Lebeau back this year. Steeers fans would have blown a gasket. Next year a different story. The question is who?. You don't get rid of a hightly sussessful defensive coordinator with a great reputation unless you have someone who can fill his shoes. Maybe his schemes have got predictable, It does seem we are just a fraction short of getting the the QB but we do still have the #1 D in the league. Is it time to move on? possibly , but in no way shape or form do I blame our defensive struggles on LeBeau. This is the worst tackling Steelers team I have ever seen. We are known for our steady tackling and big hits. This year has been pathetic. Polamalu has not made any big plays this year. Ike would lead the world in interceptions if he could catch. Harrison has been the only playmake on the D this year. Hard for me to blame D L

fansince'76
12-30-2007, 12:43 PM
Going to a 4-3? Sure, as soon as we get the personnel to run it, which we don't have, and only after the OL is rebuilt, which I feel is a much higher priority right now. Please think back a few years to "Timmah" Lewis, and then see if you can really still complain about LeBeau.

Atlanta Dan
12-30-2007, 01:09 PM
The obvious solution is to make Arians the D coordinator as well

Bill
12-30-2007, 01:44 PM
While I've been a bit unhappy about the lack of a consistent pass rush this season, I really can't say I have a problem with Dick Lebeau as a DC. The Steelers D suffered injuries to several key players this season and though some might say the backups should be ready to step in, it isn't always that simple. Aaron Smith's season ending injury was a HUGE blow to the Steelers front line, as well. If the Steelers should win the SB this season, I look for Lebeau to hang up his hat, but I, for one, wouldn't mind if he stayed on until he decides it's time.
I think Aaron Smith is OK, but I can't remember the last he time he had a sack and I think that's what they need from the defensive line.

fansince'76
12-30-2007, 02:09 PM
I think Aaron Smith is OK, but I can't remember the last he time he had a sack and I think that's what they need from the defensive line.

DEs in a 3-4 really don't rack up sacks - their role is to tie up opposing O-linemen, which frees up the LBs to get sacks, which Smith does a more than adequate job at. And Smith is an absolute beast against the run - look at the Jax game as proof of that.

Atlanta Dan
12-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Agreed that the role of the DL is to stop the run and tie up the OL, but Ed.B. today said Big Snack has not been as dominant as in years past - that may have a cascading effect throughout the interior D

The front 7 is getting some major age on it - LeBeau may be writing checks his D is getting too old to cash

LB was addressed (hopefully) in the 2007 draft - Since OL has to be the 2008 priority I guess the hope/plan is that the current DL does not need new blood until 2009

I could see LeBeau leaving on his own

pittsburghgirl8786
12-30-2007, 02:34 PM
:sofunny:

Strap on the helmet.

While i don't agree with you... it is intriguing to read....

My thoughts exactly

touchdownward
12-30-2007, 02:45 PM
:popcorn:

19ward86
12-30-2007, 05:29 PM
we need depth on the D-line and a GOOD corner not a new coach. travis krisdkfjdkjf and nick eason just dont cut it as starters. we need a lot, if our D plays like this against the jags we will lose embarrasingly and i dont hessatate when i say that.

jim brown
12-30-2007, 05:50 PM
You play with what you got !! If you would read my thoughts "defense" and valid comments you naysayers would learn something!! I hate responding to to bandwagoners ,cause its a waste of my time! Look at the draft what you get? Be thankfull for where we are at!!! Steelers fan for forty years!! You ROOKIES better take a look at where we are at!! TALK CHIT AND BARK AT THE MOON we'll be there come time!! tks for listening always a STEELER FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Steelerfan93
12-30-2007, 06:14 PM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

fansince'76
12-30-2007, 06:41 PM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

Yep, knew it was just a matter of time. :rolleyes:

FourThreeMafia
12-30-2007, 07:34 PM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

Speaking of retarded, this post....

Preacher
12-30-2007, 07:40 PM
The obvious solution is to make Arians the D coordinator as well

Great Idea.

Lets put LeBeau as teh O coordinator.

Maybe the change will do both good!

HometownGal
12-30-2007, 07:48 PM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

C'mon admit it - you have a spittle fetish, don't ya? :wink02:

What do you expect Tomlin to do - jump up and down, throw his headset, maybe do the Moe on the ref?

BlastFurnace
12-30-2007, 07:50 PM
LeBeau is fine and so is Tomlin.

We need some new folks on defense. I have a hard time that LeBeau has lost it. He just doesn't have as many toys as he used to. Watching Clark Haggans makes me long for the days of Donte Jones.

X-Terminator
12-30-2007, 08:01 PM
A talent infusion is what we need on D, not firing the DC. It will also help to have Ryan Clark, Aaron Smith and Troy Polamalu all healthy and at the top of their games.

PalmerSteel
12-30-2007, 08:02 PM
the nfl is all about cycles. the hot cycle in the last decade is copying the zone blitz. coaches and o-linemen are much more schooled and disciplined on blocking the zone blitzes now (standing their ground instead of moving to block). if the zone blitzes dont work you really are screwed becasue you lose an additional "moment" on all the stunts. i dont think we get rid of dick, but we need to mix it up more. the zone blitz isnt what it used to be and wont be for a long time to come. we need more 4-3 and cover 2 schemes to mix it up more imo......

stillers4me
12-30-2007, 08:02 PM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

He showed some fire today calling that call against Charlie bullshit. Happy now?

I'm sure nobody would be complaining if they announced tomorrow that Tony Dungy was our new HC.

Edman
12-30-2007, 08:03 PM
This defense misses Aaron Smith and Ryan Clark a lot. A WHOLE Lot.

X-Terminator
12-30-2007, 08:13 PM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

Yeah, because teams have always been successful because their head coach rants, raves and swears on the sideline. :rolleyes:

Emotion alone does not win football games. Preparation and execution has far more to do with it than emotion. It has been proven time and time again, but we still have people like you who think that if a coach isn't fiery on the sideline, he doesn't care about winning or likes it when they lose. It's bullshit.

Why do I even bother?

Preacher
12-30-2007, 08:15 PM
Yeah, because teams have always been successful because their head coach rants, raves and swears on the sideline. :rolleyes:

Emotion alone does not win football games. Preparation and execution has far more to do with it than emotion. It has been proven time and time again, but we still have people like you who think that if a coach isn't fiery on the sideline, he doesn't care about winning or likes it when they lose. It's bullshit.

Why do I even bother?


Cause you love us!

rpv
12-30-2007, 08:55 PM
This defense misses Aaron Smith and Ryan Clark a lot. A WHOLE Lot.

and A LOT OF PASSION

Bill
12-30-2007, 10:49 PM
the nfl is all about cycles. the hot cycle in the last decade is copying the zone blitz. coaches and o-linemen are much more schooled and disciplined on blocking the zone blitzes now (standing their ground instead of moving to block). if the zone blitzes dont work you really are screwed becasue you lose an additional "moment" on all the stunts. i dont think we get rid of dick, but we need to mix it up more. the zone blitz isnt what it used to be and wont be for a long time to come. we need more 4-3 and cover 2 schemes to mix it up more imo......
They might miss Smith and Clark, but the scheme is the problem. The 3-4 just doesn't put pressure on the QB without exotic zone blitzes. Maybe I'm old school and I long for the days when the real Steel Curtain was able to kill opposing quarterbacks without help from the linebackers. I want them to be able to shut offenses down, not give up 20= points each week and count on Big Ben to save the day.

fansince'76
12-30-2007, 10:54 PM
They might miss Smith and Clark, but the scheme is the problem. The 3-4 just doesn't put pressure on the QB without exotic zone blitzes. Maybe I'm old school and I long for the days when the real Steel Curtain was able to kill opposing quarterbacks without help from the linebackers. I want them to be able to shut offenses down, not give up 20= points each week and count on Big Ben to save the day.

Show me any defense today that has that kind of dominance by its DL alone. Good luck.

MACH1
12-30-2007, 10:58 PM
Show me any defense today that has that kind of dominance by its DL alone. Good luck.

just about anybody we played this year. :sofunny:

Atlanta Dan
12-30-2007, 10:59 PM
They might miss Smith and Clark, but the scheme is the problem. The 3-4 just doesn't put pressure on the QB without exotic zone blitzes. Maybe I'm old school and I long for the days when the real Steel Curtain was able to kill opposing quarterbacks without help from the linebackers. I want them to be able to shut offenses down, not give up 20= points each week and count on Big Ben to save the day.

That could be a real problem since the Steelers have drafted DL and LBs for the 3-4 for many years = it is not simply a matter of rewriting the defensive playbook

BlastFurnace
12-30-2007, 11:16 PM
One thing that confuses me is this:

Our rookie LB's cannot start because the defense is too complicated...yet...opposing OL coaches have no problem knowing our entire blitz package and LB coverage schemes.

Maybe we should hire an opposing teams OL coach to coach our LB's since they understand it so well.

Busman
12-31-2007, 12:08 AM
Yeah lord knows he did nothing with Manning and he sucks generally as a QB coach

Busman

The obvious solution is to make Arians the D coordinator as well

Stlr4ever
12-31-2007, 12:14 AM
Going to a 4-3? Sure, as soon as we get the personnel to run it, which we don't have, and only after the OL is rebuilt, which I feel is a much higher priority right now. Please think back a few years to "Timmah" Lewis, and then see if you can really still complain about LeBeau.

Good point! Dick LeBeau helped this team to go on the road in 2005 play off season and defeat the top AFC teams, and defeat a very good Seattle team. The problem is lack of talent and poor execution--not coaching.

Stlrs4Life
12-31-2007, 12:17 AM
I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

I get tired of hearing this.Can't people let Cowher go? Yeah, only if Mike Tomlin would go off on the SL we would be able to stop the run. We would get a few TOs. I don't care what he looks like standing on the side lines.

Steel Pit
12-31-2007, 12:26 AM
Good point! Dick LeBeau helped this team to go on the road in 2005 play off season and defeat the top AFC teams, and defeat a very good Seattle team. The problem is lack of talent and poor execution--not coaching.


Agreed, good post! The Steelers defense is lacking suffice talent in a couple of areas.

Seeing that no one has pointed this out yet I WILL, If the Steelers defenders, especially the secondary, were able to CATCH A FREAKING FOOTBALL, it would have made a world of difference in many of our games. Our guys have been in position MANY-MANY times this season and simply DROPPED THE BALL.

augustashark
12-31-2007, 12:29 AM
Quick fix for the D, just in time for the playoffs.

The first thing you learn in pee wee ball.





TACKLE THE GUY WITH THE BALL!

Steel Pit
12-31-2007, 12:32 AM
I get tired of hearing this.Can't people let Cowher go? Yeah, only if Mike Tomlin would go off on the SL we would be able to stop the run. We would get a few TOs. I don't care what he looks like standing on the side lines.


Agreed, That fiery Head Coach crap has gotten on my last nerve. I think that Tomlin looks like quite THE MAN on the sideline.

SteelCityMan786
12-31-2007, 12:47 AM
Be careful what you wish for.

Cuz you might just get it, and it might be MUCH worse.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 12:48 AM
Cuz you might just get it, and it might be MUCH worse.

Precisely. "Timmah" Lewis, anyone?

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
12-31-2007, 12:50 AM
Quick fix for the D, just in time for the playoffs.

The first thing you learn in pee wee ball.





TACKLE THE GUY WITH THE BALL!

AMEN - Football 101 I see our defense launching themselves like rockets but I see ABSOLUTELY no one wrapping or even attempting to wrap anyone up and make a freaking tackle. I was watching Rob King and Joe Starkey tonight after the game and they pretty much summed up the Steelers going into the playoffs.

No run defense and if this team depended on Aaron Smith that much we're in trouble BIG trouble.

IF they couldn't stop the Jaguars with 8 men in the box two weeks ago we'll be in trouble again this time.

Ben needs to come out throwing against the Jags as the Saints and Brees torched the Jags pass defense when they played them. Of course this will all depend on the O-line not getting Ben killed.

If Max Starks is hurt Ben is in trouble.

Abandon the running game because the steelers ain't got one.

Learn how to tackle

Did I mention learn how to tackle?

Special teams - No comment

Oh did I mention they need to tackle the opposition?

Last I knew the defensive coordinator is not the one on the field making the plays. And if you are so quick to ditch Lebeau who do you replace him with?

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 12:54 AM
Abandon the running game because the steelers ain't got one.

Is that why Parker went over 100 on both the Pats and Jags and Davenport went over 100 against the Rams? :hunch: I've never heard of King or Starkey, and it's apparent why - they sound like a couple of reactionary idiots that are no more qualified than the posters on this board to "tell" the Steelers coaching staff what to do to beat the Jags.

Busman
12-31-2007, 12:58 AM
No more tired then I am .. What is it with some people and their admiration with spittle.. Yeah the man brought a team to a SB but it took him how many years to finally make it.. OMG..

As an older Steeler fan I was so greatful that finally we were able to hold our collective heads high and scream from a mountain top in
Crafton that Cowher actually won the big game. 15 seasons later

I love these well Tomlin does not show emotion .. HE is a FIRST year coach... 3 YEARS from now he might be putting people on the bench indiscriminately... Thats what coaches do.. Remember Cowher benching #24? And now we see AS # 27 and Tomlin pulling back the reigns.

But.. And here is the BUT.. MT comes in with a team which is 8-8 and goes 10-6 and everyone is questioning his ability or inability..

Please stop people.. This is a class organization with very good people at the level which they are coaching.. Sure there are some OL issues and perhaps DB issues but what we have in Ben and MT is the future and neither is going anywhere soon.. So warm up ...

Busman





I get tired of hearing this.Can't people let Cowher go? Yeah, only if Mike Tomlin would go off on the SL we would be able to stop the run. We would get a few TOs. I don't care what he looks like standing on the side lines.

Busman
12-31-2007, 01:18 AM
I say this tottally joking. There is no way I could actually believe what I just typed. But then again my perception is my reality and I did just watch one year of being a Steeler fan. I think it was 2005
?

Did we win.. Someone help me.. I think I was a Steelerfan93 which makes me what 14? Soon to be 15

Thanks for that.. You sincerely made my year... My focus.. I spittled everything on those comments

Busman


I think It's Time for Tomlin to show Emotion On the Sideline Instead of just Standing their like a Retard I mean come on now

Busman
12-31-2007, 01:26 AM
yeah tackling has totally eluded this years defense. You see it and your shaking your head.. TP does it time and time again.. Not sure how teaches that kind of tackling but more times then not its not effective..

I think in tonights games I read Lebeau's lips " you have to finish the tackle"

Thats it in a nutshell.. Defenses win championships

Busman

AMEN - Football 101 I see our defense launching themselves like rockets but I see ABSOLUTELY no one wrapping or even attempting to wrap anyone up and make a freaking tackle. I was watching Rob King and Joe Starkey tonight after the game and they pretty much summed up the Steelers going into the playoffs.

No run defense and if this team depended on Aaron Smith that much we're in trouble BIG trouble.

IF they couldn't stop the Jaguars with 8 men in the box two weeks ago we'll be in trouble again this time.

Ben needs to come out throwing against the Jags as the Saints and Brees torched the Jags pass defense when they played them. Of course this will all depend on the O-line not getting Ben killed.

If Max Starks is hurt Ben is in trouble.

Abandon the running game because the steelers ain't got one.

Learn how to tackle

Did I mention learn how to tackle?

Special teams - No comment

Oh did I mention they need to tackle the opposition?

Last I knew the defensive coordinator is not the one on the field making the plays. And if you are so quick to ditch Lebeau who do you replace him with?

Physical Presence
12-31-2007, 03:10 AM
Is that why Parker went over 100 on both the Pats and Jags and Davenport went over 100 against the Rams? :hunch: I've never heard of King or Starkey, and it's apparent why - they sound like a couple of reactionary idiots that are no more qualified than the posters on this board to "tell" the Steelers coaching staff what to do to beat the Jags.


Don't let that Jaguars performance fool you. He had 69 yards until Ben improvised on a passing play as he was being taken down for a sack and flipped the ball to Parker who was pass blocking. The ball happened to go about a yard backward which made it officially a running play. The play went for around 30 yards to put his total to 100.

Maybe you haven't heard of Rob King or Joe Starkey, but they are very knowledgeable and fair about the Steelers. They were doing the FSN Live show tonight at 10PM on the Steelers and taking calls.

If anybody's watched Jacksonville, the way to beat them is to throw the ball, especially early in the game, sort of follow the '05 playoffs game plans. It is very tough sledging to try and run the ball on them, and as you can see, if the Steelers defense continues to play as poor as they have the last month, points are going to be needed to win the game.

While the Steelers may appear to still be a running team in some people's eyes, the fact is that their points this year have come from the passing game. How else do you explain Parker only having 2 rushing tds, and Najeh only 5, all the while Big Ben sets a franchise record with 32 TDs in only 15 games.

Let's face it, when the Steelers get the ball down in the red zone, they rarely punch it in on the ground. Just look at today, it took Najeh and the OL 3 tries to pick up a single yard and even that was a struggle.

As for the gameplan against the Jags, what Starkey was saying is that it will be much easier to protect Ben if we catch the Jags by surprise and throw a lot early than if we fall behind and have to throw the ball in obvious passing situations and I definitely agree.

Who knows it may even open up the run if we can hit some big plays early like we did against the Rams. I belleve we had 9 yards on our first 7 carries that game, and then Ben started connecting on big pass plays which backed off the defense a little. All of a sudden, the holes seemed to open up quite nicely. Coincidence? I doubt it.

Preacher
12-31-2007, 03:22 AM
Don't let that Jaguars performance fool you. He had 69 yards until Ben improvised on a passing play as he was being taken down for a sack and flipped the ball to Parker who was pass blocking. The ball happened to go about a yard backward which made it officially a running play. The play went for around 30 yards to put his total to 100.

Maybe you haven't heard of Rob King or Joe Starkey, but they are very knowledgeable and fair about the Steelers. They were doing the FSN Live show tonight at 10PM on the Steelers and taking calls.

If anybody's watched Jacksonville, the way to beat them is to throw the ball, especially early in the game, sort of follow the '05 playoffs game plans. It is very tough sledging to try and run the ball on them, and as you can see, if the Steelers defense continues to play as poor as they have the last month, points are going to be needed to win the game.

While the Steelers may appear to still be a running team in some people's eyes, the fact is that their points this year have come from the passing game. How else do you explain Parker only having 2 rushing tds, and Najeh only 5, all the while Big Ben sets a franchise record with 32 TDs in only 15 games.

Let's face it, when the Steelers get the ball down in the red zone, they rarely punch it in on the ground. Just look at today, it took Najeh and the OL 3 tries to pick up a single yard and even that was a struggle.

As for the gameplan against the Jags, what Starkey was saying is that it will be much easier to protect Ben if we catch the Jags by surprise and throw a lot early than if we fall behind and have to throw the ball in obvious passing situations and I definitely agree.

Who knows it may even open up the run if we can hit some big plays early like we did against the Rams. I belleve we had 9 yards on our first 7 carries that game, and then Ben started connecting on big pass plays which backed off the defense a little. All of a sudden, the holes seemed to open up quite nicely. Coincidence? I doubt it.

I agree with you.... We gotta put the ball in the air... and open up the running lanes.

ricksteelers55
12-31-2007, 05:22 AM
I dont agree with you guys when you say that we dont have the personnel to play 4-3 scheme.

We have the personnel.

To be effective with the Tampa 2 the DL has to generate the pass rushing

So Tomlin once said that Hampton would be very effective in the 4-3 scheme.

therefore the DL could be

Keisel-Smith-Hampton-Woodley

and the LB corps would be
OLB Harrison ILB Farrior/Foote OLB Haggans/Timmons

We are more than capable of switching to 4-3 scheme even if I personnally think that we should stick to the 3-4 scheme and bring some 4-3 with a kind of hybrid D.

in the Tampa 2 most of the blitzes come from the Edge which means that we could see a very emerging Brett Keisel and Lamarr Woodley filling those shoes and I'm sure we'd be more than surprised to see how they respond.

The hybrid D could help bringing new unseen packages to the other teams,but again I'm not the expert.

I truly believe that coach Lebeau is a genius and he only needs the tools to put this D back on the map.

BTW I dont agree with people who are sayin that Troy isnt playin well,he's fighting injuries but when he's there he's a playmaker.

Polamalu,Smith and Hampton are totally priceless for our D

Anyway good luck to our steelers against the Jax and PLEASE KEEP DREAMING AND BELIEVING....YOU NEVER KNOW !!!!

in 2005 revenges is what bring us to the big game(we lost to Cincy and Colts earlier in the season) now this year it's time for the Jags and Pats

GO STEELERS !!!!

Bring back Lombardi

Elvis
12-31-2007, 05:32 AM
:coffee: I think that it might be time for a change myself. But I dont think that it is the Defensive Coordinator. Arians and the offense was kicking but early in the year and then half way thru the season, its just like he didnt have any new plays to call. I just think that either he needs to come up with something new or he should go.
Now, on the discussion about Lebeau must go... I just dont think that all this is his fault myself. Clark Haggans has been going down hill for the last 2 years and I think that I am the only one that has saw this happening. Harrison hasnt had a sack in about 4 or 5 games and Hagans hasnt done anything all season. I would not be suprised to see us take a OLB early in this upcoming draft. Timmons will most likely be moved inside to take Farrior's place or Foote's. Farrior still makes plays but this season Foote hasnt done anything either.
But I really think that the Steelers Really Miss Aaron Smith Alot More Than I Expected.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 07:33 AM
Don't let that Jaguars performance fool you. He had 69 yards until Ben improvised on a passing play as he was being taken down for a sack and flipped the ball to Parker who was pass blocking. The ball happened to go about a yard backward which made it officially a running play. The play went for around 30 yards to put his total to 100.

Yep, here we go - might as well say "he's no good if you take away his long runs" - not like it hasn't been said before by others ad nauseam.

OK, for argument's sake, let's take away one 31-yard carry by Parker in that game (don't know where you're getting that, because his long was for 27 in that game). That leaves him with 13-69, which is still a healthy 5.3 YPC average. So sorry, if this King and Starkey truly did say "Abandon the running game because the Steelers ain't got one," they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Galax Steeler
12-31-2007, 08:16 AM
Yep, here we go - might as well say "he's no good if you take away his long runs" - not like it hasn't been said before by others ad nauseam.

OK, for argument's sake, let's take away one 31-yard carry by Parker in that game (don't know where you're getting that, because his long was for 27 in that game). That leaves him with 13-69, which is still a healthy 5.3 YPC average. So sorry, if this King and Starkey truly did say "Abandon the running game because the Steelers ain't got one," they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Agree there is nothing wrong with the running game it is the ol that creates problems sometimes.

revefsreleets
12-31-2007, 10:06 AM
As Aerosmith sang "Same old story, same old song and dance".

When it works, praise the players, when it breaks, blame the coaches. Tedious.

Bill
12-31-2007, 02:17 PM
Show me any defense today that has that kind of dominance by its DL alone. Good luck.
I would sure like to swap our defensive line for Jacksonville's. I like Casey Hampton, but he can only stop the run. He can't pursue or rush the passer.

The Giant's D-line also does a pretty good job. The rushed Brady much more effectively that the Steelers did.

Rhee Rhee
12-31-2007, 04:45 PM
I think Aaron Smith is OK, but I can't remember the last he time he had a sack and I think that's what they need from the defensive line.

a 3-4 is where OLB's get the sacks bud... y do u think harrison got to the probowl? and if you want sacks from a defensive line... go get some 1st round picks to do it... a la the texans

Physical Presence
12-31-2007, 04:50 PM
Yep, here we go - might as well say "he's no good if you take away his long runs" - not like it hasn't been said before by others ad nauseam.

OK, for argument's sake, let's take away one 31-yard carry by Parker in that game (don't know where you're getting that, because his long was for 27 in that game). That leaves him with 13-69, which is still a healthy 5.3 YPC average. So sorry, if this King and Starkey truly did say "Abandon the running game because the Steelers ain't got one," they don't know what the hell they're talking about.


I'm not saying take away his long runs. You can't do that. However, when you start grouping a 27 yard play as a run when in reality it was nothing more than a broken pass play, the numbers look better than they were. I'll also give you that Parker even without that play had a pretty decent game on the ground. However, that game was probably the exception rather than the rule when it comes to teams running the ball on Jacksonville all season. It's hard to make a living running the ball on them period.

When you throw in our crappy offensive line, the prospects look even worse, and this time, we don't have Willie to break those big plays for us.

Those guys never said to abandon the run, they just said that Ben and the passing game was going to be the key to the game. Of course we're going to have to run the ball effectively as well, but if we think we're just going to run the ball on first and second down all day and let Ben throw on 3rd, we'll lose for sure.

If we open up the offense a little bit, we'll be better off.

Physical Presence

Rick5895
12-31-2007, 06:54 PM
Holy crap, Lebeau is not the problem with this team. As the season has worn on our offence has not carried the time of possession as it should have and have gotten too pass happy. Injuries to Aaron Smith (the best run DE in the league) has really hampered our run D the last 3 weeks. Poor tackling is huge part of the late season down fall and tackling at this level is just "want to" and desire.
To make our D better we need better o-line play to keep the ball longer.
Want to replace a coach, how about Ariens. His play calling is pathetic and as for players, the center, Mahan has to go, he is horrible.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 07:00 PM
Those guys never said to abandon the run, they just said that Ben and the passing game was going to be the key to the game. Of course we're going to have to run the ball effectively as well, but if we think we're just going to run the ball on first and second down all day and let Ben throw on 3rd, we'll lose for sure.

Fair enough - another poster stated that they said to abandon the run game, because Pittsburgh doesn't have one. I didn't hear what they said firsthand myself. And yes, the last thing I want to see is run, run, pass - that is a recipe for disaster in this game. We will need to mix it up.

noto45
12-31-2007, 08:16 PM
Proably going to get bashed here but since he is available do you think its time for a new Defensive Coordinator?:tt02::tt02::tt02::tt02:

steel striker
12-31-2007, 09:30 PM
Well I think the problem is over pursuit and missed tackles. Plus with the loss of Clark and Smith. We can't change the 3-4 at this point and, it is time for our defense to stand up and play like the steeler defense that we know they can be. Let's not throw Dick under the bus. Do you hear yourselves? Just a few months ago alot of you were saying we got the #1 defense and, now with some injuries and some poorly played games alot of you are giving up. I'm not giving last time I checked we are still in the playoffs and, Saturday night we host the jags. We owe them some play back and, it is time for are team to stand up and show the AFC that we mean business like in 2005.
Further more if the run does not work put the game in Ben's hands. Ben can do it! Just like Parcell's said to Simms back when he coached the giants. He said Simms you throw that damn ball I got you back and, I don't care if you throw four picks or four td's i got your back! I got plenty of faith in are guys as you can tell but, it is time to let Ben to lead us with his arm. We have plenty of weapons in the passing game and, lets face we are not going to be able to run the ball very well against the jags. Here we go steelers here we go! :tt02::tt02::tt02:

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:55 PM
Proably going to get bashed here but since he is available do you think its time for a new Defensive Coordinator?

I'm assuming by "he," you mean Billick? Um, I don't know how to tell you this, but he was the OC for Minnesota before he became the Ratbirds' HC. You know, the same Minnesota offense that held the team season scoring record that the Cheatriots just broke? Which was at least part of the reason he got fired - his offenses in Baltimore for the most part sucked.

Marvin "Black Jesus" Lewis was the DC for the Ratbirds' D in 2000 that holds the record for fewest points allowed, but you'd never know it, since the Bungles' defense has sucked out loud since he's been there.

Besides, I don't think Billick's massive ego would allow a demotion - he'll wind up as HC somewhere else, probably based on the SB the Ratbirds won in 2000 on the backs of their defense, a defense he really didn't have all that much to do with himself. Oh, the irony of it all. :chuckle:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
01-01-2008, 12:05 AM
Is that why Parker went over 100 on both the Pats and Jags and Davenport went over 100 against the Rams?

It really doesn't matter what Parker did against the Pats and Jags Parker is out so what he's done in the past is a moot point. And yes Davenport had 100 years rushing but that was against the Rams not exactly a defensive juggernaut and the Steelers will not be playing the Rams in the playoffs. Let's see how Dookie does against the Jags very stout defense. I think it's going to be a long day I hope I wrong but I'm afraid I don't have a whole lot of confidence in this team right now.

fansince'76
01-01-2008, 12:13 AM
It really doesn't matter what Parker did against the Pats and Jags Parker is out so what he's done in the past is a moot point. And yes Davenport had 100 years rushing but that was against the Rams not exactly a defensive juggernaut and the Steelers will not be playing the Rams in the playoffs. Let's see how Dookie does against the Jags very stout defense. I think it's going to be a long day I hope I wrong but I'm afraid I don't have a whole lot of confidence in this team right now.

No, what Parker did against the Pats and Jags in the context of the statement "Abandon the running game because the Steelers ain't got one" is FAR from a moot point. The Steelers played Sunday's game against the Ratbirds like a damn preseason game, which was smart, because even if they won it by playing all the starters, it wouldn't have made a difference in seeding due to the Bolts/Raiders outcome. Or do you think we'll be starting Batch again this weekend? The Jags' very stout run defense? Willie put up 100 on them in only 14 carries and they're not even top-10 against the run in the league. You're right, we're doomed.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
01-01-2008, 01:12 AM
No, what Parker did against the Pats and Jags in the context of the statement "Abandon the running game because the Steelers ain't got one" is FAR from a moot point. The Steelers played Sunday's game against the Ratbirds like a damn preseason game, which was smart, because even if they won it by playing all the starters, it wouldn't have made a difference in seeding due to the Bolts/Raiders outcome. Or do you think we'll be starting Batch again this weekend? The Jags' very stout run defense? Willie put up 100 on them in only 14 carries and they're not even top-10 against the run in the league. You're right, we're doomed.

Again Parker isn't going to be playing so what he did against the Pats and Jags doesn't matter and I think they need to stick with the passing game for Saturday. I think most of us are in agreement this is a tail of two teams. The teams that played the first 8 games is a far cry from the teams that has been playing these last 8 games. I feel this team is very much in the meltdown mode and that is no way to enter the playoffs. This team and coach should be concerned. Against the Raisins our first team defense was missing one starter - Troy but our defense managed to make the Raisins third string QB and RB look like Joe Montana and Barry Sanders. Yes Willie had 100 yards against the Jags and Dookie is no Parker but in the end all that matters is we lost that game against Jacksonville , Ben made a valiant come back but we still lost 100 yards or not. This offense can't only show up in the 4th quarter and decide it's time to play.

Look I don't want to argue I want us to win just as bad as everyone else and IF by some miracle we do win on Saturday I'll be more than happy to come directly to you for my "I didn't believe lumps" Still friends? and here's a big Steeler :hug: from one of the ladies on the board.

fansince'76
01-01-2008, 01:18 AM
Look I don't want to argue I want us to win just as bad as everyone else and IF by some miracle we do win on Saturday I'll be more than happy to come directly to you for my "I didn't believe lumps" Still friends? and here's a big Steeler :hug: from one of the ladies on the board.


Agreed - truce. I'm very concerned about the D going into Saturday as well, to be perfectly honest. Happy New Year to you as well! :cheers:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
01-01-2008, 01:24 AM
Agreed - truce. I'm very concerned about the D going into Saturday as well, to be perfectly honest. Happy New Year to you as well! :cheers:

Truce this is the closest thing I can get to waving the white flag :tt02:
Happy New Year to you too!!

Bill
01-02-2008, 01:45 AM
I dont agree with you guys when you say that we dont have the personnel to play 4-3 scheme.

We have the personnel.

To be effective with the Tampa 2 the DL has to generate the pass rushing

So Tomlin once said that Hampton would be very effective in the 4-3 scheme.

therefore the DL could be

Keisel-Smith-Hampton-Woodley

and the LB corps would be
OLB Harrison ILB Farrior/Foote OLB Haggans/Timmons

We are more than capable of switching to 4-3 scheme even if I personnally think that we should stick to the 3-4 scheme and bring some 4-3 with a kind of hybrid D.

in the Tampa 2 most of the blitzes come from the Edge which means that we could see a very emerging Brett Keisel and Lamarr Woodley filling those shoes and I'm sure we'd be more than surprised to see how they respond.

The hybrid D could help bringing new unseen packages to the other teams,but again I'm not the expert.

I truly believe that coach Lebeau is a genius and he only needs the tools to put this D back on the map.

BTW I dont agree with people who are sayin that Troy isnt playin well,he's fighting injuries but when he's there he's a playmaker.

Polamalu,Smith and Hampton are totally priceless for our D

Anyway good luck to our steelers against the Jax and PLEASE KEEP DREAMING AND BELIEVING....YOU NEVER KNOW !!!!

in 2005 revenges is what bring us to the big game(we lost to Cincy and Colts earlier in the season) now this year it's time for the Jags and Pats

GO STEELERS !!!!

Bring back Lombardi
I agree that we have the talent to switch to the 4-3. Plus, if the defense gets burned in the playoffs, I'll bet my house that Tomlin switched to the 4-3 anyway. He wanted to do it this year, but held off. If the defense lets him down against Jacksonville, he will change the defense.
I agree with what you said about Woodley. I think he could be tough rushing from the outside.

BigBrian7
01-02-2008, 09:54 AM
Quick fix for the D, just in time for the playoffs.

The first thing you learn in pee wee ball.





TACKLE THE GUY WITH THE BALL!


Anthony Smith if your reading this, it does not apply to you. You my friend need to just stay back. You take care of the deep ball for once. :helmet:

SteelDogFan
01-02-2008, 09:55 AM
I don't totally disagree but take this into consideration. Two great defensive minds with different schemes. This is their first year working together and the Steelers were No. 1 in Defense. If Dick does not retire he and Tomlin could make a great defensive coaching team combing the 3/4 and conver 2.

Tomlin will draft some good DE's not just gap fillers. The linebackers will the be freed up to do more stuff in coverage and blitz packages. I hope Dick stays, I think he and Tomlin together will be great.

HometownGal
01-02-2008, 10:03 AM
I hope Dick stays, I think he and Tomlin together will be great.

I'm with you there SteelDog! :thumbsup: Whenever Lebeau decides to retire, the next Steelers DC had better walk on water.

For those who want to see Lebeau take a hike (and I think the question was posed in this thread already - correct me if I am mistaken) - who would you choose as his successor and on what merits? :scratchchin:

stlrtruck
01-02-2008, 10:53 AM
Living in Tampa, I can tell you a little more about the Tampa 2. While it's based on speed, agility, the ability to tackle, and making plays in front of you - it is open to the long ball. It also opens up the middle slot just over the LBs and in front of the DBs. And while keeping the receiver in front of the DBs is good, it allows the opposing team to get chunks of yardage 15-20 at a time.

So while it's a productive defense it too has gleaming holes in it if the right coach is playing against it.

Dino 6 Rings
01-02-2008, 01:08 PM
Here's an idea...How about we STOP throwing people off the team Prior to the playoffs and focus on the task at hand and evaluate the playoff performance.

Still going to call for Dick's dismisal when we stomp on the Jags and make a run deep into the playoffs, if not SHOCK THE WORLD AGAIN!

seriously, some people bother me at a core level.

HometownGal
01-02-2008, 01:14 PM
Still going to call for Dick's dismisal when we stomp on the Jags and make a run deep into the playoffs, if not SHOCK THE WORLD AGAIN!

seriously, some people bother me at a core level.

This is what happens when a team in any sport hits some bumps in the road - people look for a scapegoat and because our D is banged up and not executing as they are capable of doing, Lebeau is the scapegoat du jour.

If the Steelers D does come through on Saturday, which I believe they can, the players will get the kudos, not Lebeau. If the Steelers D plays like it has the last couple of weeks, Lebeau will get the poison darts shot at him again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Dino 6 Rings
01-02-2008, 01:16 PM
Damned if these same people weren't hiding under rocks when we were getting our arses handed to us in the 80s with Walter Abercrombie at running back and a guy named Lipps trying to be our entire passing game.

Either Be a fan, or DONT be a fan, I'm sick of the pessimism out of Pittsburgh toward the greatest team in NFL History.

Yeah, 5 RINGS!

fansince'76
01-02-2008, 01:24 PM
I would sure like to swap our defensive line for Jacksonville's. I like Casey Hampton, but he can only stop the run. He can't pursue or rush the passer.

The Giant's D-line also does a pretty good job. The rushed Brady much more effectively that the Steelers did.

OK - so you want to "swap" a 3-man line that contributed to the #3 rush D in the league (the last month notwithstanding) and replace it with a 4-man line that contributed to a D that wasn't even in the top 10 against the rush? Grass is greener on the other side, I guess.

Yep, too bad Golden Boy put up even more points against the Giants in their own backyard than he did against us in Foxboro. Again, the grass is always greener on the other side.

HometownGal
01-02-2008, 03:50 PM
OK - so you want to "swap" a 3-man line that contributed to the #3 rush D in the league (the last month notwithstanding) and replace it with a 4-man line that contributed to a D that wasn't even in the top 10 against the rush? Grass is greener on the other side, I guess.

Yep, too bad Golden Boy put up even more points against the Giants in their own backyard than he did against us in Foxboro. Again, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Shame on you for making sense. :cheers::wink02: