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View Full Version : Are we a finesse team now?


Stlr4ever
12-31-2007, 09:34 PM
Whatever happened to the hard-hitting Steelers that beat up on the Seahawks in the process of winning 21-0? I strongly feel like our team (offense or defense) is not playing the 'Steelers type' of football. Did you guys see the Colts-Titans game? That was one game of hard knocks. The Colts defensive playing were putting on some bone-jarring hits. I am not implying that brute force alone can win us games. But we need to see that aspect of the game. Our DL and OL are getting dominated in the trenches. We have seen the domino effect of that. Tomlin talks tough but the players are simply not playing tough. May be he should get into players faces like Chuck Noll and Cowher did. Remember the way Chuck used to chew out Terry on the sideline and the Jaw admonishing players?

stillers4me
12-31-2007, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't want to be on the receiving side of Tomlin's displeasure.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 09:40 PM
So, we completely changed our team philosophy in the space of about 2 and 1/2 months since the Squawks game? No. The Cheatriots - THAT is a finesse team.

Rhee Rhee
12-31-2007, 09:56 PM
i think since jerome our running game has lost its identity... dont get me wrong willie parker is our Feature back and i trust him to carry the load... its just that he's not built to play steelers football... which is run up the middle stiff arm as many people and get a first down my dragging 3 or 4 defenders... willie should stay with bouncing outside... bursting for a 60-70 yard run...

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:03 PM
i think since jerome our running game has lost its identity... dont get me wrong willie parker is our Feature back and i trust him to carry the load... its just that he's not built to play steelers football... which is run up the middle stiff arm as many people and get a first down my dragging 3 or 4 defenders... willie should stay with bouncing outside... bursting for a 60-70 yard run...

So, the fact that Willie isn't the Bus explains our defense forgetting how to tackle over the last month or so? Wrong. Also, he was leading the league in rushing for most of the season before he broke his leg on his first carry against the Rams, and leading the league in rushing is something the Bus never accomplished. Not too shabby for a RB that "isn't built to play Steelers football," huh? The Bus is gone, and he's not coming back. Please let him go already.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 10:13 PM
It seems like the only person on the D with any emotion right now is Carter. He will come up and hit you in the mouth and then get excited. Even after he caused that fumble it seemed like he was the only one that got excited. We need to start being the aggressor both on offense and defense. It seems like we are waiting to get hit in the mouth instead of delivering the blow.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:18 PM
It seems like the only person on the D with any emotion right now is Carter. He will come up and hit you in the mouth and then get excited. Even after he caused that fumble it seemed like he was the only one that got excited. We need to start being the aggressor both on offense and defense. It seems like we are waiting to get hit in the mouth instead of delivering the blow.

So Carter should have gotten team MVP this season instead of Silverback? :huh:

Steel Warrior
12-31-2007, 10:32 PM
We are what we are. Can't stop the run anymore, let's go with 8 in the box, scrap a safety but make Troy play pure safety. Can't run anymore, no big deal, we've got to go with 4 out on every play. If we try to press the run against them or try to stop them with cover 2, we will probably lose. We have to force them to pass. We have got to go PRP, not RRP, if we want to win this game.
:smoker:

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 10:35 PM
Key words "right now". The old Steeler D would fly to the ball and deliver a bone chilling hit, teams were afraid to play the steelers. This past month our D is the laughing stock of the league, it's down right embarassing. They need to get that swagger back and fly to the football. The second half of the season tha tackling has been sub par at best. The arm tackling/whiffs that our LB's have had in the second half of the season are unexceptable. It seems like after every loss that Tomlin says we hvae to get back to basics but the same stupid mistakes and missed tackling haunts us.

MasterOfPuppets
12-31-2007, 10:35 PM
So, the fact that Willie isn't the Bus explains our defense forgetting how to tackle over the last month or so? Wrong. Also, he was leading the league in rushing for most of the season before he broke his leg on his first carry against the Rams, and leading the league in rushing is something the Bus never accomplished. Not too shabby for a RB that "isn't built to play Steelers football," huh? The Bus is gone, and he's not coming back. Please let him go already.
3rd down on the 1......fade pattern....4 and 1....wide reciever screen + 250 lb running back = a team with no identity.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:37 PM
Can't run anymore....

No offense, but I'm geting really tired of hearing how we can't run anymore. In the last 4 games, Parker went over 100 on the Pats and Jags, and Davenport went for more than a buck-20 on the Rams in a backup role after Parker broke his leg on his first carry of the game. We've NEVER been able to run on the Ravens, which is part of why they're known as a good defense.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:40 PM
3rd down on the 1......fade pattern....4 and 1....wide reciever screen + 250 lb running back = a team with no identity.

Oh, I figured that was because Arians is the biggest bonehead in the NFL (which there is quite a lengthy thread on already), now it's because the team doesn't have an identity. OK.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:50 PM
Key words "right now". The old Steeler D would fly to the ball and deliver a bone chilling hit, teams were afraid to play the steelers. This past month our D is the laughing stock of the league, it's down right embarassing.

Exactly - "right now," i.e., the last month, doesn't define an entire season, much less a team's entire identity over the long haul.

It seems like after every loss that Tomlin says we hvae to get back to basics but the same stupid mistakes and missed tackling haunts us.

And that is different from last year....how? I expect it with a rookie HC, but from a 15-year, SB-winning HC, it's unacceptable.

Steel Warrior
12-31-2007, 10:52 PM
No offense, but I'm geting really tired of hearing how we can't run anymore. In the last 4 games, Parker went over 100 on the Pats and Jags, and Davenport went for more than a buck-20 on the Rams in a backup role after Parker broke his leg on his first carry of the game. We've NEVER been able to run on the Ravens, which is part of why they're known as a good defense.

I hear ya, but the last time I checked we don't have Parker anymore. And, those guys didn't look very good, did they?. If we try to run it, we'l lose it. It's that simple.

:smoker:

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 10:54 PM
....those guys didn't look very good, did they?.

No, they didn't but I wouldn't expect it from a team that played it like a preseason game.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:00 PM
Exactly - "right now," i.e., the last month, doesn't define an entire season, much less a team's entire identity over the long haul.

"Right Now" defines the most important part of the season. Let's be honest here if the Steelers were to win it all this year the only part of the season that would matter is "Right Now" starting Saturday.

And that is different from last year....how?

Last year the Steelers played better football (6-2) to end of the season even though they were eliminated from the playoffs.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:02 PM
Last year the Steelers played better football (6-2) to end of the season even though they were eliminated from the playoffs.

Like I said in another thread, I took no solace in that fact considering the mulligan the team took in the first half of the season which put us out of playoff contention by Halloween. The result was still the same - we'll still be playing this weekend, whereas last season, we were talking about the draft at this time. This was still a better season, regardless of how you slice it.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:04 PM
Like I said in another thread, I took no solace in that fact considering the mulligan the team took in the first half of the season which put us out of playoff contention by Halloween. The result was still the same - we'll still be playing this weekend, whereas last season, we were talking about the draft at this time. This was still a better season, regardless of how you slice it.

I agree. Good luck this weekend!

Steel Warrior
12-31-2007, 11:08 PM
No, they didn't but I wouldn't expect it from a team that played it like a preseason game.

My bad , didn't know it was a preseason game. I thought we had a chance at the 3rd if SD blew it.
:smoker:

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:13 PM
I hate everyone talking about the game against the ravens really didn't matter. Have any of you heard of momentum & confidence before. That was a big game for the momentum of the team and the confidence of our Defense. If you can't stop a 4-11 team QB'd by a rookie and an average at best running back how the hell are you going to stop a team that ran all over you just 3 weeks earlier.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:16 PM
My bad , didn't know it was a preseason game. I thought we had a chance at the 3rd if SD blew it.
:smoker:

That's just it - SD didn't blow it.

MasterOfPuppets
12-31-2007, 11:17 PM
Oh, I figured that was because Arians is the biggest bonehead in the NFL (which there is quite a lengthy thread on already), now it's because the team doesn't have an identity. OK. so you don't think that series showed a lack of confidence by the coaching staff in the running game??? could it be because of the 40 + times our backs have been hit behind the line of scrimage for negative yardage ??? could it be because parker,in the redzone...45 carries....79 yds....1.8 avg ???(http://www.nfl.com/players/willieparker/situationalstats?id=PAR468944

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:17 PM
I hate everyone talking about the game against the ravens really didn't matter. Have any of you heard of momentum & confidence before. That was a big game for the momentum of the team and the confidence of our Defense. If you can't stop a 4-11 team QB'd by a rookie and an average at best running back how the hell are you going to stop a team that ran all over you just 3 weeks earlier.

Cowboys lost 27-6 to the Eagles in a game they sleepwalked through. The Jags lost to the Texans 42-28. The Colts lost to the Titans in Indy 16-10. What's that about momentum?

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:21 PM
so you don't think that series showed a lack of confidence by the coaching staff in the running game??? could it be because of the 40 + times our backs have been hit behind the line of scrimage for negative yardage ??? could it be because parker,in the redzone...45 carries....79 yds....1.8 avg ???(http://www.nfl.com/players/willieparker/situationalstats?id=PAR468944

That goes back to my earlier point, MoP - ONE SERIES. It doesn't define a team's identity or lack thereof over the long haul.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:21 PM
Cowboys lost 27-6 to the Eagles in a game they sleepwalked through. The Jags lost to the Texans 42-28. The Colts lost to the Titans in Indy 16-10. What's that about momentum?

Which one of the teams you listed played their whole starting defense, let's see, NONE!!!!!!

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:24 PM
Which one of the teams you listed played their whole starting defense, let's see, NONE!!!!!!

OK, we're doomed. Woe is us. We suck. Happy now?

Steel Warrior
12-31-2007, 11:25 PM
That's just it - SD didn't blow it.

And we knew that before it happened, simply amazing! Go on with you bad self.
:smoker:

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:26 PM
I believe the Cowboys lost to the Redskins (playoff team), the Colts lost to the Titans (playoff team) and as for the Jags they had practically their whole starting offense and Defense in sweats not to mention their ST's gave up two KO returns for TD's.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:27 PM
And we knew that before it happened, simply amazing! Go on with you bad self.
:smoker:

Yeah, we should have played all the starters and treated it like a SB. Go on wit yo bad self. :smoker: If we would have won, what would be the outcome? Oh yeah, we'd still be the #4 seed and drawing Jax this weekend. Fine. You guys dread this game - I'll be looking forward to a return to the playoffs after 2 years.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:28 PM
We will see which Steeler team shows up Saturday whether we're doomed or not. That will remain to be seen. GO STEELERS!

MasterOfPuppets
12-31-2007, 11:38 PM
That goes back to my earlier point, MoP - ONE SERIES. It doesn't define a team's identity or lack thereof over the long haul.
here's some interesting stats.....
2007......9 rushing tds........34 passing td's.......393 pts.....24.6 pts/g
2005......21 r / tds...................21 p /t ds.....................389 pts....24.3 pts/g

so is offensive philosophy? or teams loading up to stop the run?

ShutDown24
12-31-2007, 11:46 PM
OK, we're doomed. Woe is us. We suck. Happy now?

Whenever I hear people talk like they are talking in this topic, I just say that I don't want to see them back when we win next week...

The score isn't the only thing that matters people... I saw more positives in this game than I did the St. Louis game to be honest and we won that one. Had Batch thrown that ball perfect to Holmes we probably would have won. One play, that is all. If that one play happens no one is talking like this... Batch hadn't played in about a year, we had nothing to play for, the Ravens had everything to play for...21 to 27 isn't a bad score everything considered.

fansince'76
12-31-2007, 11:47 PM
here's some interesting stats.....
2007......9 rushing tds........34 passing td's.......393 pts.....24.6 pts/g
2005......21 r / tds...................21 p /t ds.....................389 pts....24.3 pts/g

so is offensive philosophy? or teams loading up to stop the run?

I would attribute more to it being a case of the shackles being taken off of Ben, personally. Maybe that's a change in offensive philosophy, but I think being ranked 3rd in the league in rushing offense indicates we haven't strayed all that much from the running team we've always been. Remember all the people who used to bitch that we ran too much?

ShutDown24
12-31-2007, 11:48 PM
2007 - 24.6 pts/g
2005 - 24.3 pts/g


That is the only stat which matters.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:52 PM
Whenever I hear people talk like they are talking in this topic, I just say that I don't want to see them back when we win next week...

The score isn't the only thing that matters people... I saw more positives in this game than I did the St. Louis game to be honest and we won that one. Had Batch thrown that ball perfect to Holmes we probably would have won. One play, that is all. If that one play happens no one is talking like this... Batch hadn't played in about a year, we had nothing to play for, the Ravens had everything to play for...21 to 27 isn't a bad score everything considered.

Just curious did you happen to see any positives with our Defense because we must have been watching two different games.

ShutDown24
12-31-2007, 11:54 PM
Just curious did you happen to see any positives with our Defense because we must have been watching two different games.

Did you notice that three and out when we needed it? Yeah, we must have been. It doesn't matter if you give up 0 points or 100 points as long as you are still alive. They made the stop when necessary and gave the offense a chance to win it.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:55 PM
A chance won't get us to the next round of the playoffs.

eafratitpm3
12-31-2007, 11:57 PM
I would like to thank everyone for debating this evening, I think it's very healthy to debate but in the end we are all a part of STEELER NATION and that's what counts. GO STEELERS!!!!1

ShutDown24
12-31-2007, 11:59 PM
A chance won't get us to the next round of the playoffs.

All the game of football is - is chances. 2005 was a chance and it didn't just get us to the playoffs, it won us a TITLE. Without chances, there is no playoffs.

eafratitpm3
01-01-2008, 12:01 AM
Oh by the way HAPPY NEW YEARS yinz in the Burgh!

MACH1
01-01-2008, 12:35 AM
How about of blaming the o-line for a lack of a running game instead of willie. If they can't give ben 3 whole seconds to throw a pass what makes you think they're any better at run blocking?

Thats where I'd start. IMO

MasterOfPuppets
01-01-2008, 12:40 AM
That is the only stat which matters.
actually, the only stat that matters,is in the W-L column

MasterOfPuppets
01-01-2008, 12:48 AM
How about of blaming the o-line for a lack of a running game instead of willie. If they can't give ben 3 whole seconds to throw a pass what makes you think they're any better at run blocking?

Thats where I'd start. IMOthats kinda the direction i was leaning towards. for the most part,a back is only as good as his line. if your calling pass plays on the goal line, thats clearly a sign that you don't trust your line to hold the point of attack.

Galax Steeler
01-01-2008, 07:02 AM
thats kinda the direction i was leaning towards. for the most part,a back is only as good as his line. if your calling pass plays on the goal line, thats clearly a sign that you don't trust your line to hold the point of attack.

agreed everything starts at the offensive line if they break down then they play breaks down.