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Steeldude
01-05-2008, 10:42 PM
playing not to lose has cost the steelers again. rather than eating up the clock to keep the chains moving and possibly scoring again they decided to run the 1, 2, 3 flop offense.

tomlin gets an "F"

Rotorhead
01-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Not Tomlin, Arians!

Eztarget
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
YEP. That call on 3 and 6 with Ben running a QB sweep was IDIOTIC and playing not to lose. Sorry WINNERS aren't afraid to throw the ball there.

TapOut64
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
Having Ben run the ball on third down is the one play that will stick in my head the entire off season. Ben was on fire in the second half and Arian calls a run on third down? I would call a pass play for Hines or Health, get the first down and run out the clock.

docsteel
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
i agree..what a bad call..3 straight runs..we didnt run well all night

Godfather
01-05-2008, 10:56 PM
Yep...Tomlin left it all on the field. Going for it on fourth down, going for two...he went down fighting.

Can't complain too much though, considering all the injuries.

Eztarget
01-05-2008, 10:56 PM
Not Tomlin, Arians!

Sorry Tomlin is the head coach, NOT Arians. Tomlin needs to override his call and tell him to air it out. I'd rather loss on a bad Ben throw then watch the life sucked out of us on that last drive.

Okie Steeler
01-05-2008, 10:56 PM
As soon as we ran that play I knew we were going to lose.

IslandSteeler
01-05-2008, 10:57 PM
By far, one of the worst calls I've ever seen. That stupid end zone fade on the second 2 point try was a pretty close second.

Rick5895
01-05-2008, 10:58 PM
Yes Tomlin gets an F for not kicking extra point on the 12 after the penalty. That FRIGGIN IDIOT ARIANS GETS A DOUBLE F FOR PLAYING NOT TO LOSE, What a dumb call, run a boot with no option to pass. Aside from injuries, and I have said it before on these forums, is Arians, he cannot call a game, he needs to go!!!!!!

rabidsteelerfan
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
After that 3 and 6 call, I couldn't get my head to stop shaking in amazement while continuously saying, WTF, no really, WTF?

I know it's easy to be a monday morning quarterback, but really.....WTF? That didn't even look like they cared to make the first down......................

jjpro11
01-05-2008, 11:01 PM
dumbest ****ing play call you will ever see.. ben is not fast enough to get a first down on 3rd and 6 by running... thats common sense. if you want to play conservative, then try a wr screen and see if we can get a block or two. plus ben could have easily fumbled there too. just stupid.

Steeldude
01-05-2008, 11:03 PM
Yep...Tomlin left it all on the field. Going for it on fourth down, going for two...he went down fighting.

how is flopping on 3rd and 6 leaving it all on the field? at least try to get a first down.

he was forced to go for it on 4th down. he had no choice. every coach in NFL history would have went for it on 4th. going for two was the result of math. again not a choice.

but how many settle for a flop play to punt the ball with a 1:40 or so left and a one point lead?

Edman
01-05-2008, 11:07 PM
In the football world, the circumstances can make a coach a genius or a goat. Suppose we do pass on 3rd and 6, and the pass is incomplete, or at worst, picked off. What do you say then?

You want to look at the possible success of the playcall, but you don't want to look at the possible failures. It wasn't the best playcall, but name any other options that are better.

It's frustrating to lose like this, and the season is over, but please use some logic.

HometownGal
01-05-2008, 11:08 PM
You people can point to that one play all you want, but the bottom line is - the Steelers again DID NOT play 60 minutes of football, especially the O. They woke up in the second half, made a very exciting game of it and almost pulled it out, but playoff teams cannot expect to win playing half of a game.

X-Terminator
01-05-2008, 11:13 PM
You people can point to that one play all you want, but the bottom line is - the Steelers again DID NOT play 60 minutes of football, especially the O. They woke up in the second half, made a very exciting game of it and almost pulled it out, but playoff teams cannot expect to win playing half of a game.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the bottom line.

But nah, let's lay the blame squarely at the feet of Tomlin anyway. It's what Steelers fans do best.

Tim
01-05-2008, 11:13 PM
In the football world, the circumstances can make a coach a genius or a goat. Suppose we do pass on 3rd and 6, and the pass is incomplete, or at worst, picked off. What do you say then?

You want to look at the possible success of the playcall, but you don't want to look at the possible failures. It wasn't the best playcall, but name any other options that are better.

It's frustrating to lose like this, and the season is over, but please use some logic.

I'm going to bet that a lot of fans would much rather see an interception there than see us go three and out on really conservative plays that have no hope of gaining any yardage, and let them run out the clock and kick a game winner.

How many times has this happened to us over the years? At least 3-4 games a season we seem to lose on a last minute drive that only needs a FG to win. Granted some of those are OT losses, but that 3 and out series with 3 minutes left was just ridiculous. It's the playoffs. Win the game.

I have yet to see another AFC team play call like that. We seem to be the only ones.

Borski
01-05-2008, 11:14 PM
We started slow but in the end we left it all on the field we just didn't turn out with the win. I thought Tomlin did great the chips just didn't fall our way.

Godfather
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
If you go down swinging, the fans will be a lot more forgiving than if you lose playing it safe.

HometownGal
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
The steelers playing 60 minutes is squarely on the head coach. This is what the HC's job is to motivate and get palyers to play for him. The only good news is that he will get better.

One little word . . . EXECUTION.

Preacher
01-05-2008, 11:23 PM
The steelers playing 60 minutes is squarely on the head coach. This is what the HC's job is to motivate and get palyers to play for him. The only good news is that he will get better.

No.

The players playing 60 minutes is squarely on the players. You get paid millions... Go out and play.

Was that a bad series of calls? yes. But I have never liked that.

However.... How many of you were happy with Cowher when HE called the same types of plays, because that was EXACTLY A COWHER SERIES!

jjpro11
01-05-2008, 11:24 PM
the problem was that the play had zero chance of getting a first down. ben just doesnt have the speed to run a designed run play and pick up 6 yards on that. a RB draw play had a better chance of getting 6 yards than that. a wr screen would have probably been the best bet. at least you get it in the hands of a fast guy and have a chance to pick up some blocks against DBs rather than linebackers and linemen.

eafratitpm3
01-05-2008, 11:24 PM
Steeldude- I would like to commend you on starting this thread because this and this only is the reason the Steelers lost this game. We are notoriously known to do this as a team and everytime it bits us in the ass. KUDOS to you!!!

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:27 PM
"Good teams find ways to win, poor teams find ways to lose" ... too many times this year the Steelers have scored late and instead of running out the clock through agressive passing/running, all they do is go three-and-out expecting a weakened and often injury riddled defense to win the game.

Edman
01-05-2008, 11:30 PM
If you go down swinging, the fans will be a lot more forgiving than if you lose playing it safe.

Steeler fans still hold a grudge against Cowher for that 4th down shovel pass against the Chargers in the 1994 AFCC.

Like I said, there's a fine line between being a goat and a hero. You guys want to look at the possible successes of passing the ball on that play. But don't look at the possible failures.

Steelerfreak58
01-05-2008, 11:30 PM
Why after all night long we had not run the ball well did Arians decide to run 3 times in a row? Why give the ball back to the Jags with lots of time left and good field position?

It just doesn't make much sense to me. Yes our D did well tonight but that was against 3 downs the Jags were going to be playing all 4 downs....

I am disgusted with Arians

Oh btw hello everyone I am brand spanking new to the website and hope to be discussing the best damn team in the league more in the future.:cheers:

fansince'76
01-05-2008, 11:30 PM
Head Coach Tomlin???? NO SACK, dont be scared this is for coaches who want to win. Cant win in this league like that.... Yeah F as in Fired

Get a grip. :coffee:

The Duke
01-05-2008, 11:31 PM
Head Coach Tomlin???? NO SACK, dont be scared this is for coaches who want to win. Cant win in this league like that.... Yeah F as in Fired

interesting, so you registered to say a rookie coach should be fired after a 10-7 season :coffee:

fansince'76
01-05-2008, 11:31 PM
Sorry excuse for a Head Coach, Rooney's screwed that one up.

Maybe they should have hired you, eh, Einstrein?

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:34 PM
By far, one of the worst calls I've ever seen. That stupid end zone fade on the second 2 point try was a pretty close second.

Agree .... that whole sequence suffered from lack of creativity ... prior to the eventual touchdown, they ran the same play twice to the right almost resulting in an interception. Then, once they finally managed to score, they throw a floater which had no chance from the minute it left ben's hands.

However, the 3rd and six will stick with me all summer ... bonehead of a call ... little if any success on the ground, all of the success came via the air, and they try a QB run?????

Even Madden expected a "quick release short pass"

Edman
01-05-2008, 11:34 PM
The anti-Tomlin idiots are out in full force. It never fails.

Steelerfreak58
01-05-2008, 11:35 PM
You people can point to that one play all you want, but the bottom line is - the Steelers again DID NOT play 60 minutes of football, especially the O. They woke up in the second half, made a very exciting game of it and almost pulled it out, but playoff teams cannot expect to win playing half of a game.


Couldn't agree more.

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:36 PM
No.

The players playing 60 minutes is squarely on the players. You get paid millions... Go out and play.

Was that a bad series of calls? yes. But I have never liked that.

However.... How many of you were happy with Cowher when HE called the same types of plays, because that was EXACTLY A COWHER SERIES!

Despite the fact that we won a Super Bowl with Cower, you are right ... too many times we relied on the defence to hold on for the win, when a few first downs gained through agressive play would have resulted in the same. The difference is that the defense has been filled wih injuries lately ... can't go to that well too many times!

Steel_Bus_24
01-05-2008, 11:36 PM
While I loved them fighting back, they just had too much of a clusterF*** of a 1st half to win.

Special Teams Gave away free points on their very first outing....something I blame on Tomlin considering that was his major focus in Training Camp
Dick, your Ds suck at containing mobile QBs....I saw that Draw coming a mile away. And its not just the Jags QB either...I seem to remember Cutler tearing us a new one too and going back further....Michael Vick

Ben you almost brought us back, your tard decisions of the 1st half cost us though
Sepulveda, where the hell was the leg on that last punt.....net yards of only 24????

O-Line as usual, was bad....especially Mahan...he got destroyed up the middle(Though I feel for him on that holding Call). Looks like we will need a new LG and C for next year
Defense, very hard to get too mad at you because you kept us in it....but damm can we close out a game.........

I guess its a fitting albeit absolute sucky way of ending the season. This year we were "The Pittsburgh Inconsistents". And with the injuries, we couldn't afford to do be that.
This wouldn't be nearly as hard to take if there wasn't NE or INDY, I won't be able to stomach another SB W.....GO GREEN BAY!!!

We have a lot to do in the off-season and the schedule for next year will be really tough. Hopefully we will be ready for it......and not have to worry about as many injuries to key players as this year

Atlanta Dan
01-05-2008, 11:38 PM
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the bottom line.

But nah, let's lay the blame squarely at the feet of Tomlin anyway. It's what Steelers fans do best.

Speak for yourself - blaming Arians is what I do best:smile:

ohiosteelerfan20
01-05-2008, 11:39 PM
If you posted "bring in Charlie Batch" or "fire Tomlin" tonight:flipoff:and:moon:

eafratitpm3
01-05-2008, 11:40 PM
Steeler fans still hold a grudge against Cowher for that 4th down shovel pass against the Chargers in the 1994 AFCC.

Like I said, there's a fine line between being a goat and a hero. You guys want to look at the possible successes of passing the ball on that play. But don't look at the possible failures.

What are the possible failures of passing the ball? That we might not get the first and leave more time on the clock and we might lose. Well here's the down side, we lost anyway!

Rotorhead
01-05-2008, 11:41 PM
HTG, you are correct, if they played the entire game like the 4th quarter it would have been 75-0 win, but they at least put it together to come close to a win. Preacher, I will never understand why you like Arians so much . . . and still don't understand why you keep bringing up Cowher . . . he is gone, has been all season who cares what he used to do, he is not the coach anymore, and Arians was not his coordinator. The fact of the matter is, despite being down 18 heading into the 4th, we came back to pull ahead. We did that by pulling out the stops and throwing (since the running game was not working AT ALL) and it worked. Then, with just under 4m left we return to the run . . . why, it wasnt working! Passing was, it was working well. It worked well to pass pass run instead of run run pass. So why would you change the successful playcalling you did for 11m back to the unsuccessful play calling of the entire game?

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:42 PM
Couldn't agree more.

No doubt ... had they won, they would have been the luckiest team on earth because their play did not merit a win ...if you want to win and challenge the big boys (Indy and NE) you need to play 60 minutes, stay away from turnovers, and move the ball, even if only to gain better field position.

jjpro11
01-05-2008, 11:45 PM
it was a stupid call.. i will stand by that.. but i dont know if firing arians is the answer either. having an inconsistent line (despite playing fairly well tonight) and not having the league's leading rusher can really stack the cards against you when play calling. most importantly though, how many teams and quarterbacks have had success with 3 different offensive coordinators over a 3 year span.

Rotorhead
01-05-2008, 11:46 PM
Now for the rest of my rant and wont mention it again. I know that incomplete passes would have sucked just as much, and had more chance to fail, but the run did not work AT ALL all night, and Ben was on fire for 3 straight drives. There is no logical reason why you would not rely on the absolute best players on your Offense (and team really) to win the game, those players are Ben, Ward, Miller and Santo . . . not Davenport the rushing game! I would have taken the loss better if we had thrown it or even if it was intercepted, because that was what was working for the entire comeback. The running game never worked tonight or 2 weeks ago. OK im done with this topic. (well . . . FIRE ARIANS . . . now im done lol)

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Special teams have been very weak all season and needs some attention going into next year. The defense has lost its edge ... despite the fact that the statistics indicate pittsburgh was the number 1 defence in the league, we could barely put any pressure on any QBs. So much for the blitz defence of Dick L.

The offence was very inconsistent as well - ALL YEAR! Not sure if that is a reflection of the players or the OC.

X-Terminator
01-05-2008, 11:49 PM
Speak for yourself - blaming Arians is what I do best:smile:

Heh - touche :smile:

Godfather
01-05-2008, 11:52 PM
Special teams have been very weak all season and needs some attention going into next year. The defense has lost its edge ... despite the fact that the statistics indicate pittsburgh was the number 1 defence in the league, we could barely put any pressure on any QBs. So much for the blitz defence of Dick L.

The offence was very inconsistent as well - ALL YEAR! Not sure if that is a reflection of the players or the OC.

Yep. If any coaching change is made, it should be ST coach.

We also need to address the following positions in the draft: LT, LG, C, RG, RT :dang:

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:53 PM
Now for the rest of my rant and wont mention it again. I know that incomplete passes would have sucked just as much, and had more chance to fail, but the run did not work AT ALL all night, and Ben was on fire for 3 straight drives. There is no logical reason why you would not rely on the absolute best players on your Offense (and team really) to win the game, those players are Ben, Ward, Miller and Santo . . . not Davenport the rushing game! I would have taken the loss better if we had thrown it or even if it was intercepted, because that was what was working for the entire comeback. The running game never worked tonight or 2 weeks ago. OK im done with this topic. (well . . . FIRE ARIANS . . . now im done lol)

I think your thoughts are echoing with many Steeler fans, but like me I think many of us feared that they would run the ball in that final drive - sure enough it failed to accomplish anything.

At the beginning of this game I said to myself: in order to win we need to do the following:


No turnovers - failed misserably
Protect the QB - mixed reviews here, but far from acceptable (Alan Faneca has nothing to brag about as he heads for Free Agency)
Use Ward, Miller, and Holmes as the main weapons ... again, mixed reviews, although when it counted most, the OC calls a play that involves neither of the above.

Preacher
01-05-2008, 11:53 PM
Now for the rest of my rant and wont mention it again. I know that incomplete passes would have sucked just as much, and had more chance to fail, but the run did not work AT ALL all night, and Ben was on fire for 3 straight drives. There is no logical reason why you would not rely on the absolute best players on your Offense (and team really) to win the game, those players are Ben, Ward, Miller and Santo . . . not Davenport the rushing game! I would have taken the loss better if we had thrown it or even if it was intercepted, because that was what was working for the entire comeback. The running game never worked tonight or 2 weeks ago. OK im done with this topic. (well . . . FIRE ARIANS . . . now im done lol)

you know.. Up until "fire Arians" (I know, kyou were joking), that was a very good post.

I actually agree with you completely. When you come against a team that can stop the run, you are in trouble. We should have thrown the ball short. Heck, I would have even like a draw play.

However, as we learn more about this team, the more I am excited about Arians as the coach. He and Ben will combine for some exciting years in the future.

DP_Steeler
01-05-2008, 11:55 PM
yep, that is the call i will remember. i couldn't believe they ran it there..they score all those points in a row not playing scared and then start to play scared with the lead. i knew we were gonna lose after that play

I'm pretty sure 99% of the fans thought the same thing ... that is if they were still able to breath from the frustration - after seeing such a ridiculous play

Michael Keller
01-05-2008, 11:56 PM
Yes Tomlin gets an F for not kicking extra point on the 12 after the penalty. That FRIGGIN IDIOT ARIANS GETS A DOUBLE F FOR PLAYING NOT TO LOSE, What a dumb call, run a boot with no option to pass. Aside from injuries, and I have said it before on these forums, is Arians, he cannot call a game, he needs to go!!!!!!

Arians is clearly not a very intelligent man. This is pitiful that a very high percentage of members of this forum could do a better job of play calling than this man.

Some one herein posted "it was a fun season". It was not for me , this team was not at all enjoyable as they were far to inconsistent and the offensive coordinator as mention previously was down right awful in his play calling all too often. I posted a comment in the early part of the season that the special teams was going to cost us a play off game. I did not want to be right.

There needs to be changes in coaching (OC and Special Teams) and perhaps a two year rebuilding plan and the addition of new blood, especially the offensive line. I do not see the Steelers retuning to the elite level for at least two years, unless they get very aggresive in FA, which they never have.

One very bright light was the play of Woodley.

The Steelers will be back but it may get worse before it gets better. The schedule next year is brutal.

Loyal to the end but realistic.

HometownGal
01-06-2008, 12:01 AM
However, as we learn more about this team, the more I am excited about Arians as the coach. He and Ben will combine for some exciting years in the future.

I'm definitely with you on this one, Father. :cheers: Ben has always had the talent, but Arians allowed (and encouraged) him to spread his wings and fly this season. I am excited beyond belief to watch this duo outwit, outplay and outlast our opponents next season (with a new and improved OL, which is a MUST). :thumbsup:

TackleMeBen
01-06-2008, 12:06 AM
I'm definitely with you on this one, Father. :cheers: Ben has always had the talent, but Arians allowed (and encouraged) him to spread his wings and fly this season. I am excited beyond belief to watch this duo outwit, outplay and outlast our opponents next season (with a new and improved OL, which is a MUST). :thumbsup:

:iagree: except for arians.. i am not sure about his playing calling... maybe he and coach tomlin can address this in the off season:thumbsup:

Atlanta Dan
01-06-2008, 12:06 AM
Ben has always had the talent, but Arians allowed (and encouraged) him to spread his wings and fly this season.

Until the possession with 3 minutes left:dang:

Steeldude
01-06-2008, 12:14 AM
In the football world, the circumstances can make a coach a genius or a goat. Suppose we do pass on 3rd and 6, and the pass is incomplete, or at worst, picked off. What do you say then?

You want to look at the possible success of the playcall, but you don't want to look at the possible failures. It wasn't the best playcall, but name any other options that are better.

It's frustrating to lose like this, and the season is over, but please use some logic.

trying for the first down has more upside. running your QB on 3rd and 6 who could possibly fumble or get hurt doesn't have much upside. every pass can be intercepted. should the steelers treat 3rd down as a 4th down? they were deep in their own territory protecting a 1 point lead. with the steelers poor STs i don't see how punting it to their 50 is better than attempting a pass to the TE.

you don't want to look for possible failures in a play? what? that makes no sense. what possible success could a telegraphed QB draw have?

please use some logic.

Steelerfreak58
01-06-2008, 12:17 AM
Until the possession with 3 minutes left:dang:

No doubt. Arians layed a fat turd with 3 minutes left... simply unreal.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 12:18 AM
Until the possession with 3 minutes left:dang:

Exactly. However, up until Arians... show me another OC in Steelerland that would have allowed Ben to throw as much as he did.

Seems to me, we have had 15 years of that exact same kind of play.

eafratitpm3
01-06-2008, 12:19 AM
Thank You Coach Tomlin for a Great Year! Until the last 4 minutes of the game! We played to lose and the reult showed it.

X-Terminator
01-06-2008, 12:27 AM
And if Ben throws a pick in that situation, the usual suspects would bash Arians for that too.

Don't tell me you wouldn't.

eafratitpm3
01-06-2008, 12:29 AM
And if Ben throws a pick in that situation, the usual suspects would bash Arians for that too.

Don't tell me you wouldn't.

He may get bashed but at least that would have meant the Steelers were trying to win the game and not lose it. Let me ask you this, if Ben throws and interception is there a different outcome in the game, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Preacher
01-06-2008, 12:30 AM
He may get bashed but at least that would have meant the Steelers were trying to win the game and not lose it. Let me ask you this, if Ben throws and interception is there a different outcome in the game, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hindsight is 20/20, and that is the problem.

eafratitpm3
01-06-2008, 12:32 AM
That's not hindsight that's a fact.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 12:33 AM
That's not hindsight that's a fact.

Mmmm...no, second-guessing play calls is hindsight.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 12:35 AM
Mmmm...no, second-guessing play calls is hindsight.

:sofunny:

Yep.

X-Terminator
01-06-2008, 12:35 AM
He may get bashed but at least that would have meant the Steelers were trying to win the game and not lose it. Let me ask you this, if Ben throws and interception is there a different outcome in the game, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you guarantee that the outcome would have been different? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just love all of you armchair OCs. Makes me LOL...

eafratitpm3
01-06-2008, 12:36 AM
The fact still remains we played to lose and it bit us in the ass once again. I wouldn't have been this upset if we lost by two or three TD's than to lose it by battling back all that way and then basically shut down the last four minutes and hand the game over to the Jags.

eafratitpm3
01-06-2008, 12:39 AM
Can you guarantee that the outcome would have been different? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just love all of you armchair OCs. Makes me LOL...

Well, now you have all off season to LOL! You can't tell me you were in favor of the 2nd to the last drive, honestly. If you were and if you didn't see that coming you haven't been a Steeler fan long. They are notorious for playing not to lose.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 12:40 AM
The fact still remains we played to lose and it bit us in the ass once again. I wouldn't have been this upset if we lost by two or three TD's than to lose it by battling back all that way and then basically shut down the last four minutes and hand the game over to the Jags.

Actually, you would have.

Go see your posts after we lost the other teams.

Do I like that style of play? No, and have been vocal about it for some time. But my goodness... let up. we can't change the past, nor can we change the future. We don't own the team.

eafratitpm3
01-06-2008, 12:42 AM
No but I can vent. It's not a personal attack on anyone just venting!

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 12:45 AM
I wouldn't have been this upset if we lost by two or three TD's than to lose it by battling back all that way and then basically shut down the last four minutes and hand the game over to the Jags.

Sure you wouldn't. :rolleyes:

It's disgusting to watch your team get it handled to them at their home field, not once but twice.

That was a halftime comment made by you in the Gameday thread tonight.

Atlanta Dan
01-06-2008, 12:45 AM
And if Ben throws a pick in that situation, the usual suspects would bash Arians for that too.

Don't tell me you wouldn't.

That goes with the territory

But the rollout to the right that kept being run in the red zone at least would have preserved the pretense of a pass - a rollout to the left was clearly a run (Ben is known to be less effective on passes while running to his left) and was playing not to lose - no shock it got stuffed.

Arians lost his nerve with that call.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 12:47 AM
No but I can vent. It's not a personal attack on anyone just venting!

Never said it was...

and venting is a good thing.... I just don't see why this was so bad. We weren't supposed to win this game. We outplayed ourselves in the fourth quarter, and our rookie coach finally had his rookieness (yeah, I made that up) catch up with him.

However, we will have a great year next year. I am SO excited about this team. We have many young studs.

ColoradoSteelerFan
01-06-2008, 01:08 AM
This is NOT an anti-Tomlin comment....but a comment that I have become cautious about Tomlin. One year is one year. We really won't know about what Tomlin is about and what his future holds with the Steelers for another two years really. However, the Pittsburgh Steelers one really ONE game of any significance the entire season (second game against Cleveland) and the team really collapsed as the season wore on (Yes....injuries obviously played a massive factor in this). Tomlin didn't seem to light the fire to keep things going when the going got tough. The last drive was a joke. Arians is obviously the OC and the fault lies with him but Tomlin is the head guy. If he saw something that was as blatantly obvious to all of us he should have done something about it.

I don't dislike Tomlin. I'm not calling for his head. As I stated, he needs at least 2 years before the jury can really come back with a verdict. However, I didn't like what I saw as the season wore on. This team has talent. It will be interesting to see what Tomlin does in the offseason and as the talent level dips (hoping that doesn't happen).

Preacher
01-06-2008, 01:16 AM
This is NOT an anti-Tomlin comment....but a comment that I have become cautious about Tomlin. One year is one year. We really won't know about what Tomlin is about and what his future holds with the Steelers for another two years really. However, the Pittsburgh Steelers one really ONE game of any significance the entire season (second game against Cleveland) and the team really collapsed as the season wore on (Yes....injuries obviously played a massive factor in this). Tomlin didn't seem to light the fire to keep things going when the going got tough. The last drive was a joke. Arians is obviously the OC and the fault lies with him but Tomlin is the head guy. If he saw something that was as blatantly obvious to all of us he should have done something about it.

I don't dislike Tomlin. I'm not calling for his head. As I stated, he needs at least 2 years before the jury can really come back with a verdict. However, I didn't like what I saw as the season wore on. This team has talent. It will be interesting to see what Tomlin does in the offseason and as the talent level dips (hoping that doesn't happen).

I really don't blame tomlin. Our players were acting old and tired. They acted that way all year last year.

jjpro11
01-06-2008, 01:21 AM
I don't dislike Tomlin. I'm not calling for his head. As I stated, he needs at least 2 years before the jury can really come back with a verdict. However, I didn't like what I saw as the season wore on. This team has talent. It will be interesting to see what Tomlin does in the offseason and as the talent level dips (hoping that doesn't happen).

this team's talent went on IR or played with nagging injuries at the end of the season. its hard to play well when you lose team leaders like we did. we went from healthy and soaring to hurting and sinking from one half of the season to the next.

ColoradoSteelerFan
01-06-2008, 01:25 AM
I really don't blame tomlin. Our players were acting old and tired. They acted that way all year last year.

I'm not blaming Tomlin. Please don't misunderstand me. What I have become concerned about is Tomlin's ability to coach in significant games and Tomlin's ability to rally the troops when the going gets tough. He is supposed to be a defensive guy....but the defense collapsed as the year wore on (They played great tonight!) And I honestly believe Tomlin should have ensured that a pass play was called on 3rd and 6. Ben had been unstoppable. The play call was obvious. Now, that being said, who knows if it would have been successful. The outcome might have been the same. Therefore, you really can't "blame" anyone. However, a pass play had MUCH more upside potential. There was ZERO chance a run was going to get 6 yards, especially a run with Ben taking the ball. A failed pass play would have simply meant that Jax didn't have to use their time out. The play clock would have been exactly the same.

I was on record here when Tomlin got hired as saying that he was not the guy for the job. I wanted Whiz or Grim. However, Tomlin seemed to be proving me wrong early on in the season. Then the team started losing to obvious NON-playoff teams and then the injuries started and things just started to spiral away.

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm not calling for Tomlin's head. Not even close. Just saying I have become curious as to whether Tomlin will eventually succeed here as his two predecessors did.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 01:31 AM
I'm not blaming Tomlin. Please don't misunderstand me. What I have become concerned about is Tomlin's ability to coach in significant games and Tomlin's ability to rally the troops when the going gets tough. He is supposed to be a defensive guy....but the defense collapsed as the year wore on (They played great tonight!) And I honestly believe Tomlin should have ensured that a pass play was called on 3rd and 6. Ben had been unstoppable. The play call was obvious. Now, that being said, who knows if it would have been successful. The outcome might have been the same. Therefore, you really can't "blame" anyone. However, a pass play had MUCH more upside potential. There was ZERO chance a run was going to get 6 yards, especially a run with Ben taking the ball. A failed pass play would have simply meant that Jax didn't have to use their time out. The play clock would have been exactly the same.

I was on record here when Tomlin got hired as saying that he was not the guy for the job. I wanted Whiz or Grim. However, Tomlin seemed to be proving me wrong early on in the season. Then the team started losing to obvious NON-playoff teams and then the injuries started and things just started to spiral away.

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm not calling for Tomlin's head. Not even close. Just saying I have become curious as to whether Tomlin will eventually succeed here as his two predecessors did.

Fair enough. However, please bear in mind that Cowher didn't get his first win in the playoffs until his 3rd season, and the Steelers went to the postseason in all of Cowher's first three seasons as HC. Cowher was one and done in each of his first two years and the Steelers actually backslid from 11-5 to 9-7 during Cowher's first two years. I say give him some more time. As far as Whiz and Grimm are concerned, where were they this weekend? On a golf course in AZ somewhere.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 01:35 AM
Fair enough. However, please bear in mind that Cowher didn't get his first win in the playoffs until his 3rd season, and the Steelers went to the postseason in all of Cowher's first three seasons as HC. Cowher was one and done in each of his first two years and the Steelers actually backslid from 11-5 to 9-7 during Cowher's first two years. I say give him some more time. As far as Whiz and Grimm are concerned, where were they this weekend? On a golf course in AZ somewhere.

Your exactly right...

However, isn't it nice to chat with someone we disagree with... and have them not be extreme about what they are saying.... thought out and reasoned posts.

Sure is nice to see that again.

ColoradoSteelerFan
01-06-2008, 01:44 AM
Fair enough. However, please bear in mind that Cowher didn't get his first win in the playoffs until his 3rd season, and the Steelers went to the postseason in all of Cowher's first three seasons as HC. Cowher was one and done in each of his first two years and the Steelers actually backslid from 11-5 to 9-7 during Cowher's first two years. I say give him some more time. As far as Whiz and Grimm are concerned, where were they this weekend? On a golf course in AZ somewhere.

Good point. However, I would contend that Tomlin inherited a much more talented team than did Cowher. The injury bug bit hard this season and this obviously played a massive roll in how events transpired. I believe that if Parker was in tonight, Steelers win and win pretty handily. The Steelers owned this game but gave it away on 3 picks and a kick return.....and even fought back through those to take the lead. Tomlin is young and will mature as he gets experience. I'm NOT saying Tomlin won't be the next great Steeler HC. I'm just saying that I have some concerns when I view how he coached several games this season and the fact that he really only won a single game that had any real significance.

And on your Whiz/Grimm comment.....I seem to recall a certain game this season where Whiz outcoached Tomlin. That did happen.....didn't it?:dang::wink02:

ColoradoSteelerFan
01-06-2008, 01:45 AM
Your exactly right...

However, isn't it nice to chat with someone we disagree with... and have them not be extreme about what they are saying.... thought out and reasoned posts.

Sure is nice to see that again.

Thanks. I try. However, you might see me emote. I am definitely up for a good eruption from time to time! :flap:

Preacher
01-06-2008, 01:50 AM
Thanks. I try. However, you might see me emote. I am definitely up for a good eruption from time to time! :flap:

:sofunny::sofunny:

Why should you be different from anyone else?

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 01:55 AM
Good point. However, I would contend that Tomlin inherited a much more talented team than did Cowher. The injury bug bit hard this season and this obviously played a massive roll in how events transpired. I believe that if Parker was in tonight, Steelers win and win pretty handily. The Steelers owned this game but gave it away on 3 picks and a kick return.....and even fought back through those to take the lead. Tomlin is young and will mature as he gets experience. I'm NOT saying Tomlin won't be the next great Steeler HC. I'm just saying that I have some concerns when I view how he coached several games this season and the fact that he really only won a single game that had any real significance.

And on your Whiz/Grimm comment.....I seem to recall a certain game this season where Whiz outcoached Tomlin. That did happen.....didn't it?:dang::wink02:

Also good points. I don't think the LB corps or DBs that Tomlin inherited this year are as good as Cowher inherited in Lloyd, Nickerson and Hinkle, and Woodson and Lake, respectively, but he did inherit a much more talented offense than Cowher did, OL not withstanding, so I think that's a wash. However, I like the fact that even though you initially disagreed with the Tomlin hire from the outset, you're at least giving the guy a chance. :cheers:

Rhee Rhee
01-06-2008, 03:02 AM
im not sure how anyone can not point to that play as the "TRUE" turning point of the game... u can say all u want about 60 minutes of football but we were in it and we were even leading... so idk that play to me would have iced the game...

Rick5895
01-06-2008, 07:24 AM
I couldnt agree more, again, I pont out Arians, but this season was too pass happy. We lost our edge in run blocking. But you cant be content to go 3 and out with the game on the line. The O-line stunk this season, especially at center, But we have been spoiled for 3 decades (Webster, Dawson Hartings) but Mahan is horrible.
I agree Woodley is the real deal, I also thought Essex did a good job in the game despite his inexpereince. They clearly need a back up to Parker and a replacement for Faneca.
Still I look forward to training camp when it starts all over again, and I will spend a really silly amount of money on tickets from stub hub or ebay to come from Ontario and watch the black and gold.
IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY LONG WINTER!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's to evryone on this site having a safe and prosperous 2008

The Steelers will be back but it may get worse before it gets better. The schedule next year is brutal.

Loyal to the end but realistic.[/QUOTE]

larue777
01-06-2008, 07:56 AM
3 straight runs. It sure put a fizzle on what had been a great comeback. The running game had not been working that well so it was almost like they were turning it over to their defense. If they had better field position I could understand it.

If ithe three runs had been at their 40 I get it. Not at the 20. Speaking of........

The special teams stunk it up big time and probably was the biggest reason they lost. On their last possession giving the ball to the Jags near the 50 was not acceptable. Poor kickoff coverage and returns. Poor punt coverage. Poor punt returns.

Eckrew
01-06-2008, 10:34 AM
yep, that is the call i will remember. i couldn't believe they ran it there..they score all those points in a row not playing scared and then start to play scared with the lead. i knew we were gonna lose after that play

This series was almost an EXACT REPLICA of what we did against the Browns in week 10! Let me refresh everyone's memory :banging::

Pittsburgh Steelers at 02:42
1-10-PIT 11 (2:42) Parker up the middle to PIT 12 for 1 yard
Timeout #3 by CLE at 02:38.
2-9-PIT 12 (2:38) Parker up the middle to PIT 14 for 2 yards
Two-Minute Warning
3-7-PIT 14 (2:00) (Shotgun) Roethlisberger up the middle to PIT 14 for no gain

You see that?? Two RB plays and then give it to Ben to run. WTF?!? I saw it coming from a mile away. The only reason we didn't loose THAT game was a missed field goal with 10 seconds left!

Coaches are supposed to learn from their mistakes. I know we didn't loose that game, but we could have just as easily. You need to stick with what was working and where the momentum was. I'll be happy to second-guess the OC on that one!
Shame on you for not learning from your [almost]mistakes!! :egg::monkey:

ShrewBeer
01-06-2008, 10:43 AM
didnt ben say that it was man coverage, also? when you have man coverage, you dont want to hand it off, you want to pass. the last thing you want is to run your white qb.:banging:

revefsreleets
01-06-2008, 06:20 PM
Sorry, guys, but, again, you're wrong. Here is what actually transpired, and this is DIRECTLY from both Tomlin and Essex after the game:

Tomlin said they had worked on that play the week before, and the Jags had the right defensive look for the play to work. TOMLIN made that call, not Arians. Trai Essex said in his post-game interview that he was confused about his blocking assignment and missed his block on the play. He accepted the blame for the LACK OF EXECUTION of the play that should have cemented the game. The prior two plays were designed to set up the third. There was a lack of execution, and the play failed.

But THAT wasn't what lost the game. Poor special teams play lost the game. Turnovers (Ben's mistakes) lost the game. Poor offensive line play (6 sacks and only 40-some yards of rushing) lost the game. Ben's run was only one play.

PINDEL1
01-06-2008, 10:58 PM
Sorry, guys, but, again, you're wrong. Here is what actually transpired, and this is DIRECTLY from both Tomlin and Essex after the game:

Tomlin said they had worked on that play the week before, and the Jags had the right defensive look for the play to work. TOMLIN made that call, not Arians. Trai Essex said in his post-game interview that he was confused about his blocking assignment and missed his block on the play. He accepted the blame for the LACK OF EXECUTION of the play that should have cemented the game. The prior two plays were designed to set up the third. There was a lack of execution, and the play failed.

But THAT wasn't what lost the game. Poor special teams play lost the game. Turnovers (Ben's mistakes) lost the game. Poor offensive line play (6 sacks and only 40-some yards of rushing) lost the game. Ben's run was only one play.

Good info about that play series<< Did not know that.

What the Steelers had to over come in the Jags game.
1. How about all the injuries the Steelers had to deal with before the game even started. Quality players injured and out (6= Marvel Smith, Starks, Parker, Aaron Smith, Ryan Clark, Dan Kreider).

2. Oh sure there were plenty of huge mistakes made during the game that the Steelers had to overcome.
Special teams early major blunder, Coaching with the 2 pt. conversion decisions, Bens interceptions, weak offensive line play.

Despite all of the above problems the Steelers had just overcame all of them. The defense had just made the Jags punt. Its a new ball game at least we think it is. We are in the lead with the ball at the 22 yard line with 3:43 left in the game.
What more can you ask at this point....
This is a critical offensive series to get out of an unfavorable field position situation. The Steelers need first downs to ice this game and to put Jacksonville in an unfavorable field position.

Davenport is a decent RB to have on the team but he is not a #1 or #2 back answer for the Steelers. Why do I say that >> If he was on the Jags team I do not think he could beat out either of the #1 and #2 backs.

So with that said he was our #1 back in that game. <<< That puts our running game in trouble before the game even started.

At this point in the game Davenport has a pathetic 14 carries for 21 yards. His longest carry is 10 yds. Take that out and you have 13 carries for 11yds. For the record he finished with 16 carries for 25 yds.

So what do the coaches decide?

Here is were playing calling is on the friggin line. My problem is not the 1st play called. It is with the 2nd play called.....that was the killer.

They decide to give the ball to Davenport. 1st down he gains 5 yds. << Really not that bad. Its the 2nd & 3rd down calls that sink them. On 2nd down Davenport loses 1 yard. Now 3rd and 6 Ben in shotgun, runs left tackle for 1 yard. Then Dan punts a measly 40 yards. Well you know the rest of the story.

Lets review the last interception before the end of the first half at :56. That was a monster of a bad play. If we get 3 or 7 pts vs the interception (an off balance lineman) the 2 pt conversion problem would be a moot point because it would never have occurred. Add another 2 points ( Potential 9 pt swing). In other words the Jags could not have won with the game ending field goal.

Both games with the Jags were decided in the last 5 minutes by a field goal. They found away to win.

FAB802
01-06-2008, 11:11 PM
We got the ball back with the lead with around three minutes left. The other 57 minutes are irrelevant. Najeh Davenport did NOTHING the entire game on the ground. (All you we won't miss Willie because now we have a big back folks look stupid now, huh?) The only real success we had was throwing the ball. Ben lit them up the entire 4th quarter.

WE had taken over all momentum in the game, their defense was on it's heels. What does our gutless coaching staff do? Three runs and punt. As soon as we ran that play on third down the game was over. We were up one, not seven. From where we were punting and with the way super rookie was punting it they were a lock to start near the fourty. It was completely inexcusable to waste one of the greatest playoff comebacks in league history by quitting on your players.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 11:24 PM
If we get to the playoffs by throwing the ball, we need to keep going by throwing the ball. The run the ball to run out the clock type of ball is exactly why the Steelers have ALWAYS been open for comebacks.

augustashark
01-06-2008, 11:26 PM
Something did not make sense to me as I watched our last drive. First I read most of the posts in this thread and found myself wondering why all the focus was on the thrid down play. As they (Steelers O) lined up for 2nd and 5, I was saying to myself playaction pass is the right call here. Thinking back to Millers TD! Running on third down is kinda trying to find the D in pass first mentality.

A thought on Arians. I remember back to the 2002 playoff game against the Browns where Arians was the OC. If you go back you will find that Cleveland had a chance to run the clock out if they picked up a 1st down. He chose to pass the ball (the correct call) the only reason we did not lose that game was because Northcutt droped a perfect pass! So I ask myself, why would he try to win the game then and not now. I can only come up with that Tomlin trumped him.

augustashark
01-06-2008, 11:33 PM
You people can point to that one play all you want, but the bottom line is - the Steelers again DID NOT play 60 minutes of football, especially the O. They woke up in the second half, made a very exciting game of it and almost pulled it out, but playoff teams cannot expect to win playing half of a game.

I agree that you can never poing to one play, but (yes a but) we had a chance to right all the wrongs that we did in the first 45 mins. To not take advantage of that is just bad focus and the lack of understanding the "moment"!

And that is the bottom line!

Steeldude
01-06-2008, 11:53 PM
(All you we won't miss Willie because now we have a big back folks look stupid now, huh?)

parker can't do anything if there are no holes. the RB wasn't the problem. it was a weak O-line. mahan and simmons get pushed around too easily.

X-Terminator
01-07-2008, 12:01 AM
For all of you people bitching about Arians and how he should be fired, I have two words for you...

Joe Walton.

Preacher
01-07-2008, 12:01 AM
Something did not make sense to me as I watched our last drive. First I read most of the posts in this thread and found myself wondering why all the focus was on the thrid down play. As they (Steelers O) lined up for 2nd and 5, I was saying to myself playaction pass is the right call here. Thinking back to Millers TD! Running on third down is kinda trying to find the D in pass first mentality.

A thought on Arians. I remember back to the 2002 playoff game against the Browns where Arians was the OC. If you go back you will find that Cleveland had a chance to run the clock out if they picked up a 1st down. He chose to pass the ball (the correct call) the only reason we did not lose that game was because Northcutt droped a perfect pass! So I ask myself, why would he try to win the game then and not now. I can only come up with that Tomlin trumped him.

I think it is the "Run first" mentality of the ownership. If you coach here, you will be a run first team. Now, we weren't run first, however, when it all came down to it, we went back to the run.

Why? when all the coaches are gone.. and teh one that isn't, has a track record of throwing the ball? My answer has to be, it is a mentality that is driven by ownership.

____________________



:bricks: Let it begin... Hey. I love the Rooneys. They are, in my opinion, the best owners of the NFL. However, I have wonder why we are going to the same well in the playoffs.

augustashark
01-07-2008, 12:07 AM
For all of you people bitching about Arians and how he should be fired, I have two words for you...

Joe Walton.

That's it, pull out the " it could be worse" bit. How about " it could be better" bit? Oh well, somethings never change.

X-Terminator
01-07-2008, 12:10 AM
That's it, pull out the " it could be worse" bit. How about " it could be better" bit? Oh well, somethings never change.

The point is that if you want to question certain play calls, that's perfectly fine. But wanting a guy fired when overall he has done a good job and helped develop a Pro Bowl QB is nothing short of lunacy. Pinning all of the blame on him when things fail is even more ridiculous than that, but what else would I expect out of Steelers fans? Lazy opinions are what they are all about. Some things never change, indeed.

Besides, it would be nice if we had an OC that lasted more than one friggin season, for continuity's sake.

Steeldude
01-07-2008, 12:12 AM
But THAT wasn't what lost the game. Poor special teams play lost the game. Turnovers (Ben's mistakes) lost the game. Poor offensive line play (6 sacks and only 40-some yards of rushing) lost the game. Ben's run was only one play.

the steelers overcame the kick return. running a telegraphed QB draw on 3rd and 6 deep in your own territory is ridiculous. especially when you consider how poor their punt coverage unit has been.

i agree that TOs, ST, a poor O-line and so forth are also reasons the steelers lost, but that play was a joke. how many QB draws work for 6 yards with a slow QB?

yes, that was one play and it was the final play. that play gave the jags the ball with great field position and just enough time for them to score and leave the steelers with nothing. that play wouldn't mean much if it was done with 7 or so minutes still on the clock. punting it on 3rd down would have been better.

with that said, i am not one the people who says fire arians. i am all for giving him another year, but other changes need to be done before next season. like the zone blocking scheme. did you see simmons just flatout ignore grady who was a foot away from him? i am guessing that's a result of the zone blocking. it's happened many times this season and not just with simmons.

Lord Stiller
01-07-2008, 12:13 AM
parker can't do anything if there are no holes. the RB wasn't the problem. it was a weak O-line. mahan and simmons get pushed around too easily.

quoted for truth

The Duke
01-07-2008, 12:16 AM
For all of you people bitching about Arians and how he should be fired, I have two words for you...

Joe Walton.

don't bother. all they care about is that arians is the worst O coordinator in the league :rolleyes:

augustashark
01-07-2008, 12:17 AM
The point is that if you want to question certain play calls, that's perfectly fine. But wanting a guy fired when overall he has done a good job and helped develop a Pro Bowl QB is nothing short of lunacy. Pinning all of the blame on him when things fail is even more ridiculous than that, but what else would I expect out of Steelers fans? Lazy opinions are what they are all about. Some things never change, indeed.

Besides, it would be nice if we had an OC that lasted more than one friggin season, for continuity's sake.

You are a steelers fan correct? Lazy opinions? I thought your opinions were hard working. I never said to fire Arians, I just find it interesting that he played the same situation completly different with Cleveland in 02!

X-Terminator
01-07-2008, 12:21 AM
You are a steelers fan correct? Lazy opinions? I thought your opinions were hard working. I never said to fire Arians, I just find it interesting that he played the same situation completly different with Cleveland in 02!

Yes, I'm a Steelers fan, but I call a spade a spade when it comes to our fans. I sugar-coat nothing. Yes, I said "lazy opinions." Wanting the coaches fired, pinning all of the blame for losses on one person/coach, etc. after losses, are lazy opinions that require very little thought. What else could they possibly be?

I have no problem with people questioning play calls. I DO have a problem with people(not you) ignoring the whole body of work and just wanting the guy fired because a few plays didn't work well. It's stupid, and it's lazy.

augustashark
01-07-2008, 12:33 AM
Thanks for the explanation. lol

You think that there is alot of "stupid" people here huh? Oh well. Let the people say there peace. I dont think he should be fired, but when evaluated this should be looked at by Tomlin or the Rooneys.

Preacher
01-07-2008, 01:38 AM
Funny.

Our QB really isn't that slow. He is big, but not that slow. Also, they GAMEPLANNED for that specific instance, and had the play to beat the formation. Trai said he blew his assignment, which caused the problem.

And if you remember the SB. Twice Ben did an end around... once he picked up a TD, the other time he picked up a first down towards the end of the game.... so he has a history of doing it. I don't think it is too far out of the range of possiblity to think that was a viable option based on history.

I still don't like the calls on first and second down. But once again, that is the issue of running the ball to eat the clock. And again, i am starting to look further up the chain then the coaching staff.

augustashark
01-07-2008, 01:43 AM
Ben is not the same QB he was in 05, when it comes to tucking it and running.

By the way, what do you mean by "further up the chain"?

X-Terminator
01-07-2008, 01:46 AM
Thanks for the explanation. lol

You think that there is alot of "stupid" people here huh? Oh well. Let the people say there peace. I dont think he should be fired, but when evaluated this should be looked at by Tomlin or the Rooneys.

Funny, I don't believe I called anyone on here "stupid." I said it's stupid to pin everything that goes wrong at the feet of one person. Big difference. The people are allowed to say their peace, but they should also expect the things they say to be challenged.

Preacher
01-07-2008, 01:52 AM
Ben is not the same QB he was in 05, when it comes to tucking it and running.

By the way, what do you mean by "further up the chain"?

Cough... Rooneys Cough.


They have created a culture of old school football, which I love for the most part. However, that culture includes a mentality that you run out the clock by running the football instead of driving to put more points on the board.

It has been the same here through three head coaches.

As I said in a previous post, we have the best owners in the NFL. I just think that this is that little chink in an otherwise perfect armor.