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View Full Version : Forseeable Changes in 2008?


steelers2685
01-06-2008, 02:13 AM
Hi everyone. Just wanted to post a few thoughts of mine from this season.

One of the greatest contributions to our success in 05 was the running of the 2 minute drill on offense, keeping opposing D's on their toes and really making playcalling effective. We saw that tonight and it worked well once again. Anyone else like to see more of that come around again in 08?

Running game is one of our biggest assets as a team, and we lead the league in total rushing yards since the merger in 1970. This year, despite FWP's fight for the rushing title prior to being injured, did anyone else feel that the running game was not as effective as year's past when it comes to clock management and driving the ball home for first down's?

Playcalling is a word we've all heard plenty about this year, and some of it has been questionable. I don't know the statistics on 3rd downs for the Steelers this year, but to me I noticed countless times where we ended up in 3rd and 15+ situations from penalties as well as failed running attempts. The solution? We tried running dump off screens or draw plays to try and get that yardage. No offense, but that was not going to work. Most of these came when playcalling was run on first, run on second, and then screen/draw on third. Teams seemed to catch this pretty fast and consistently throughout the course of the game. Tonight, we saw the success of the passing game (in the second half at least:toofunny:) compared to the running game (25 total yards on 16 carries I believe?) Does anyone else feel that playcalling selection/looking more at the passing game needs to be addressed for next year?

Finally, tackling. Ike Taylor followed Cribbs I believe into the endzone on the infamous punt return in October. Similar examples occurred with the Pats, and most recently tonight in both the case of Tyrone Carter allowing 10-15 extra yards after the point he made contact with the runner, as well as the case of special teams, but that's been the occurrence since 04 it seems lol.... Tackling needs to improve next year, and one of the ways to help that I feel is to get Ryan Clark back. In addition, Woodley will be in there a lot more, perhaps even a starter come next year. It just seems tackling has fallen off hte map this year and created in my mind a far less than mediocre performance of LeBeau's great defensive schemes, as they just did not seem to fulfill expectations at times.

Thanks for reading, sorry for the length. I just wanted to speak my mind on issues that I've had since midseason.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 02:19 AM
I'd like to address two of your points.

The running game - I feel this was a transition year as far as making this a more balanced offense, and the kinks were not completely worked out. Let's face it, for years if you stopped the Steelers' running game, you stopped the Steelers, period. I also think the overall poor play of the OL exacerbated the team's inability to kill clock with the run late in games where they've had the lead.

Tackling - I think the tackling this season, particularly later in the season was some of the worst I've seen by the defense since Tim Lewis was the DC. This definitely needs to be shored up going into next year.

steelers2685
01-06-2008, 02:28 AM
I'd like to address two of your points.

The running game - I feel this was a transition year as far as making this a more balanced offense, and the kinks were not completely worked out. Let's face it, for years if you stopped the Steelers' running game, you stopped the Steelers, period. I also think the overall poor play of the OL exacerbated the team's inability to kill clock with the run late in games where they've had the lead.

Tackling - I think the tackling this season, particularly later in the season was some of the worst I've seen by the defense since Tim Lewis was the DC. This definitely needs to be shored up going into next year.

+1 I didn't take into consideration the OL's responsibility for a successful running game. My fault on that oversight. Completely agree with the tackling though. I think Jeff Reed's sorry attempt at stopping Jones-Drew on his big run back pretty much sums up the tackling by the D, especially secondary, here late in the season. Their inability to bring runners down basically amounts to just falling down in front of the guy since the runner gets by without much effort.

Rhee Rhee
01-06-2008, 02:54 AM
+1 I didn't take into consideration the OL's responsibility for a successful running game. My fault on that oversight. Completely agree with the tackling though. I think Jeff Reed's sorry attempt at stopping Jones-Drew on his big run back pretty much sums up the tackling by the D, especially secondary, here late in the season. Their inability to bring runners down basically amounts to just falling down in front of the guy since the runner gets by without much effort.

jeff reed aint sepulveda... lol

steelers2685
01-06-2008, 02:59 AM
jeff reed aint sepulveda... lol

LOL! :toofunny::toofunny::toofunny: Quadzilla should have still made a better effort at grappling hold of JD's leg at the very least. It looked like he got drop kicked in the stomach and flew backwards, just falling down in front of JD as he shielded himself. :dang:

jjpro11
01-06-2008, 03:06 AM
LOL! :toofunny::toofunny::toofunny: Quadzilla should have still made a better effort at grappling hold of JD's leg at the very least. It looked like he got drop kicked in the stomach and flew backwards, just falling down in front of JD as he shielded himself. :dang:

its hard to fault him for that.. 9 times out of 10 MJD wins that matchup with the kicker. the real problem was the special teams guys missing tackles who are paid to tackle, not kick.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 03:09 AM
its hard to fault him for that.. 9 times out of 10 MJD wins that matchup with the kicker. the real problem was the special teams guys missing tackles who are paid to tackle, not kick.

Agreed - if you have to rely on the PK to make a TD-saving tackle, the rest of your coverage team screwed the pooch on the return.

Preacher
01-06-2008, 03:13 AM
its hard to fault him for that.. 9 times out of 10 MJD wins that matchup with the kicker. the real problem was the special teams guys missing tackles who are paid to tackle, not kick.


True. But he could have at least make it LOOK better!

7/39/43
01-06-2008, 03:49 AM
get rid of Arians , the O line coach and special teams coach

The Duke
01-06-2008, 04:01 AM
get rid of Arians , the O line coach and special teams coach

yeah, that's going to solve the problem :coffee:

seriously dude, think about what you're saying, if you were running a football team and just fired a first year O coordinator, and o line coach and a ST coach at the same time you would be struggling to be 1-15

I'm gonna guess anger at the jags loss makes you say those kind of stupid things, hey we are all a little sad and angered about it, but think a little about what you say

:cheers:

7/39/43
01-06-2008, 04:22 AM
Duke
more than once this year with a lead he has called stupid plays near the end of the game no way in he_ _ should Jacksonville got the ball back with that little time no time outs and we give them the chance to win it. O line find me another star QB that was on the ground that much Ben is tough but his career will be short if that keeps up. Special teams how many long returns have they gave up this year, man I miss Bobby April
Angry yes but serious thinking!

Galax Steeler
01-06-2008, 06:00 AM
That was a stupid call there at the end of the game when ben tried to run for the first down.

ohiosteelerfan20
01-06-2008, 06:18 AM
Sean Mahan has to go. He was bad all year, but especially last night. The only time I saw him block someone was when he got called for that bogus holding, on the 2 point conversion. There is a article on Aol this morning stating"he could'nt have blocked Lindsey Lohan from the medicine cabinet last night.":rofl:

Michael Keller
01-06-2008, 08:14 AM
yeah, that's going to solve the problem :coffee:

seriously dude, think about what you're saying, if you were running a football team and just fired a first year O coordinator, and o line coach and a ST coach at the same time you would be struggling to be 1-15

I'm gonna guess anger at the jags loss makes you say those kind of stupid things, hey we are all a little sad and angered about it, but think a little about what you say

:cheers:

Duke You take a noble position and one that I generally agree with. Patience and stability are good qualities of leadership. I got to tell you I have been an avid fan for over 55 years and this was one of the most frustrating seasons I personally have experienced.

Here is what I see.

Arian is probably a good coach at the preparation stages and most of all relates well with our franchise player. His play selection is just terrible. He does not seem to understand what is working and what is not working. He mixes up plays such that there is no consistency in the offense. If I had to guess, he is not a quick thinker. Or he is stubborn. I see this quite a bit in human behavior. In my opinion he is not a good game day coach and in fact he is terrible. There is an opinion amongst many fans that pro football coaches are well qualified . NOT TRUE. I know some coaches first hand and I know it to be true that there is there is quite of bit of incompetency. It is actually discouraging . Conversely there are some extrordinaryly good coaches at both the college level and pro level who would love to be a Steeler coach.

I would even consider keeping Arians and either Tomlin takes a much more active role in game day play calling or hire a bright Assitant Head Coach to select the plays. This area has got to improve. This is so obvious to me. I have seen enough of Arian.

Special teams : I am noticing more and more this year that these kids do not know how to tackle or do not have the heart to do so. The Steelers need to identify at least two or three kamakazie type players that will be the heart and soul of their special teams, that is kick off and punt coverages. Again I sense it is coaching and again I would find the very best Special Teams coach and in the second day of the draft pick the kids who demonstrate heart and quickness .

Offensive line , the horses are simply not there. I would not make a coaching change here. This is not going to be a quick fix but the improvement can begin next year. It may take at least two years to for the OL to become a strength again. I hope against hope that Faneca stays. There must be at least one blue chip addition to the OL either through the draft (most likely source 1st rounder ) or through FA.. No more journey man , Mahon like additions. I am hoping that Tomlin and his brain trust concentrates on what to do with the OL first and foremost.

It will be an intersting off season. Quite frankly there is a big part of me that that is glad this season is over and now lets begin to get this right.
I do believe in Mike Tomlin and I look for next year's team to be "His Team ". This young man has the personal resources to be a great coach.

TheManOfSteel
01-06-2008, 09:28 AM
I know one thing. Nobody on the OL played as bad as Colon did all year. Every game his bad play jumped out at me. Mahan was the second worst. Essex looked very good last night. I think the team should look at him next year at LT. This off season we need to rebuild a good solid OL first and for most. Then maybe some depth at DL. AT OLB we look very good. I know we need a little help in the secondary as well. Other then that we are not to far off of winning another SB IMO. Tomlin had a very good year as a first year HC. I cant wait to see are moves in this years off season.

SteelersJW
01-06-2008, 12:51 PM
So what do you guys think? Will Arians remain the OC next season, and if not, who will replace him?

The only candidate for the OC job within our staff I can think of is Ken Anderson. He was the Bengals OC for a few years and has a good amount of expierence with NFL offense. What do you think?

steelers2685
01-06-2008, 02:15 PM
It will be an intersting off season. Quite frankly there is a big part of me that that is glad this season is over and now lets begin to get this right.
I do believe in Mike Tomlin and I look for next year's team to be "His Team ". This young man has the personal resources to be a great coach.

I agree 110%. Next year I see big improvements due to the simple fact that Tomlin now knows what he has to work with on a first hand level and can go into the draft and free agency with this knowledge as well as what the team needs next year.

I do not see Arians leaving as it was just his first year. But I do feel they need to either get on him to provide some spark to the offense like in the previous two years, or allow Tomlin to take over some play calling himself. I'm sure he has that right already, but has anyone seen him with papers in his hand all year? I do not believe I have. You see Holmgren, Cheatichik, and alot of other head coaches having a more active role with those big play call cards in front of them. It'd be nice to see him to a bit more of that.

The main issue though - the OL MUST get better during the offseason to allow for greater things to happen. No OL = no threatening running game and Ben on his back again unable to make plays.

mopit55
01-06-2008, 02:32 PM
no new lineman and good protect = big ben injury and bad pocket

HometownGal
01-06-2008, 02:33 PM
But I do feel they need to either get on him to provide some spark to the offense like in the previous two years, or allow Tomlin to take over some play calling himself.

Why don't you ask Ben if he felt there was any "spark" to Arians' offense? :dang: Ben had a great season because Arians believed in him enough to take the shackles off of him. Willie Parker, had he not broken his leg, was vying for the NFL rushing title and having one helluva season. I don't think he'd agree with you either.

Tomlin is a defensive guru, not an offensive expert. I'm just fine with leaving Arians in as OC and Ken Anderson as the QB coach - both contributed significantly to Ben having a career season.

ohiosteelerfan20
01-06-2008, 02:41 PM
Anyone who really thinks Arians is getting fired, is kidding themselves. Yes that 3rd and 6 call did'nt work out, but that can not undue a whole year of work. If Arians did get fired, it would be the first time in the history of the NFL, that a OC got fired after his qb made the pro bowl and his team won the division. Arians will be back, that is not even debatable.

SteelAssassin
01-06-2008, 03:25 PM
4 months ago would not be fast enough in my book! :poop:

This idiot really has me steamed. I havent been this PO'd since some of those Tommy Maddox shenanigans last season! Steelers were mounting the biggest 4th quarter comeback in NFL playoff history and this moron Arians calls "run-run-scramble-punt" deep in our own territory with 3 minutes left to give the Jags plenty of time to get into winning FG range? Our running game wasnt getting anywhere all night and yet we call 3 straight running plays with time running out to save our season? TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE PLAY-CALLING, ARIANS!!!! :poop:

I just dont get how this numbskull thinks. The Steelers offense was steaming hot in the 4th quarter and we scored a 3 TDs on the previous 3 drives and we had the Jaggies on the ropes, and yet Arians shows NO faith in them and instead puts all the hope in our porous defense stopping Jax from moving into FG range from the 50-yd. line??? This makes absolutely NO SENSE! :poop:

Arians NEEDS to be fired immediately for his total lack of competence. I would seriously question Mike Tomlin being the coach for the Steelers if he doesnt pink slip Bruce Arians by the middle of the week. :poop:

Steeler Nation has suffered too many years of "Turtle Ball" under Cowher to have to revert back to the dark years of protecting fragile leads. This team needs a KILLER INSTINCT like New England & Indianapolis has when they get a lead and decide to show no mercy to their opponent. I was critical of the Patriots running up the score on a few teams this year, but I can see why Belichick is such a great coach.....he takes no prisoners until the game clock reads 0:00 and that's how you need to play in the NFL!!!!

:banging::banging::banging::banging:

steelers2685
01-06-2008, 03:27 PM
Why don't you ask Ben if he felt there was any "spark" to Arians' offense? :dang: Ben had a great season because Arians believed in him enough to take the shackles off of him. Willie Parker, had he not broken his leg, was vying for the NFL rushing title and having one helluva season. I don't think he'd agree with you either.

Tomlin is a defensive guru, not an offensive expert. I'm just fine with leaving Arians in as OC and Ken Anderson as the QB coach - both contributed significantly to Ben having a career season.

Ken Anderson did have a huge part in Ben's success this year. But the play calling of Arians did hinder the offense, especially in key spots throughout the season when they needed first downs to control the clock and/or move the ball into a position in which they could try and win the close games.

Even Cowher just commented on the terrible call of running the QB sweep with Ben even though he was doing great passing the ball. Grant it Ben may have had a good year, but overall the offense was not feared in my view, but rather very predictable and not as productive as they have the potential to be, and that starts with the play calling and then the O-line to hold off defenders to let plays develop.

P.S. Phil Simms then commented how Harrison was held but it wasn't called, which was very unfortunate for us.

devo_17
01-06-2008, 03:38 PM
I am really disappointed that when we had a chance to lock the game up we couldnt pick up a first down. I think a big reason for it is missing Willie Parker. We didnt have a balanced attack at all which is what we have had all year. Now I do understand that we didnt have time to be balanced in the second half being down so many points but I think the Jags didnt have to respect the run at all. One more point was when Henderson tried to enter the game after hurting is hammy we didnt even try to challenge that side of the field. I would think one would have noticed him re enter the game and possibly challenge him.

HometownGal
01-06-2008, 03:49 PM
4 months ago would not be fast enough in my book! :poop:

This idiot really has me steamed. I havent been this PO'd since some of those Tommy Maddox shenanigans last season! Steelers were mounting the biggest 4th quarter comeback in NFL playoff history and this moron Arians calls "run-run-scramble-punt" deep in our own territory with 3 minutes left to give the Jags plenty of time to get into winning FG range? Our running game wasnt getting anywhere all night and yet we call 3 straight running plays with time running out to save our season? TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE PLAY-CALLING, ARIANS!!!! :poop:

I just dont get how this numbskull thinks. The Steelers offense was steaming hot in the 4th quarter and we scored a 3 TDs on the previous 3 drives and we had the Jaggies on the ropes, and yet Arians shows NO faith in them and instead puts all the hope in our porous defense stopping Jax from moving into FG range from the 50-yd. line??? This makes absolutely NO SENSE! :poop:

Arians NEEDS to be fired immediately for his total lack of competence. I would seriously question Mike Tomlin being the coach for the Steelers if he doesnt pink slip Bruce Arians by the middle of the week. :poop:

Steeler Nation has suffered too many years of "Turtle Ball" under Cowher to have to revert back to the dark years of protecting fragile leads. This team needs a KILLER INSTINCT like New England & Indianapolis has when they get a lead and decide to show no mercy to their opponent. I was critical of the Patriots running up the score on a few teams this year, but I can see why Belichick is such a great coach.....he takes no prisoners until the game clock reads 0:00 and that's how you need to play in the NFL!!!!

:banging::banging::banging::banging:

Hey - since you're such an expert on offensive playcalling, why don't you send your hot resume to Tomlin? Then we can bash the living sh it out of you at the end of next season when we go 0-16. :poop:

SteelAssassin
01-06-2008, 04:02 PM
4 months ago would not be fast enough in my book!

This idiot really has me steamed. I havent been this PO'd since some of those Tommy Maddox shenanigans last season! Steelers were mounting the biggest 4th quarter comeback in NFL playoff history and this moron Arians calls "run-run-scramble-punt" deep in our own territory with 3 minutes left to give the Jags plenty of time to get into winning FG range? Our running game wasnt getting anywhere all night and yet we call 3 straight running plays with time running out to save our season? TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE PLAY-CALLING, ARIANS!!!! :poop:

I just dont get how this numbskull thinks. The Steelers offense was steaming hot in the 4th quarter and we scored a 3 TDs on the previous 3 drives and we had the Jaggies on the ropes, and yet Arians shows NO faith in them and instead puts all the hope in our porous defense stopping Jax from moving into FG range from the 50-yd. line??? This makes absolutely NO SENSE! :poop:

Arians NEEDS to be fired immediately for his total lack of competence. I would seriously question Mike Tomlin being the coach for the Steelers if he doesnt pink slip Bruce Arians by the middle of the week. :poop:

Steeler Nation has suffered too many years of "Turtle Ball" under Cowher to have to revert back to the dark years of protecting fragile leads. This team needs a KILLER INSTINCT like New England & Indianapolis has when they get a lead and decide to show no mercy to their opponent. I was critical of the Patriots running up the score on a few teams this year, but I can see why Belichick is such a great coach.....he takes no prisoners until the game clock reads 0:00 and that's how you need to play in the NFL!!!!

:banging::banging::banging::banging::banging:

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 04:06 PM
Another "Armchair OC" heard from. Do ya think your point comes across any better in 20-pt. bold font? :coffee:

stillers4me
01-06-2008, 04:11 PM
Maybe a few days off the internet and away from the subject of football will be beneficial for your mental and cardiovasular health. Check your blood pressure lately?

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Maybe a few days off the internet and away from the subject of football will be beneficial for your mental and cardiovasular health. Check your blood pressure lately?

He starts one more goddamn "Fire Arians" thread and he's gonna get a 30-day vacation.

TheMightyEx
01-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Another "Armchair OC" heard from. Do ya think your point comes across any better in 20-pt. bold font? :coffee:


I gotta say, relying on 1.4YPC Najeh and a gimpy Ben to earn you 10 yards against a fired up Jags front 7 when your passing game is white-hot was pretty braindead.


At least playaction. As terrible as our OLine was this year, Id trust Ben ad libbing over the run game pretty much all the time.


I wonder though, why didn't BR change the play at the LOS?

The Duke
01-06-2008, 05:02 PM
so his guy made 2 topics with the same content . real interesting :coffee:

How long did it take you write all that, which btw neither Art Rooney or Mike Tomlin would even pay attention too

Many fans must be really new to the steelers to not remember many of our past awful offensive coordinators

Maybe a few days off the internet and away from the subject of football will be beneficial for your mental and cardiovasular health. Check your blood pressure lately?

some people take football too seriously. it's a freakin game, a hobby, when are they gonna understand that

steelers2685
01-06-2008, 06:42 PM
I wonder though, why didn't BR change the play at the LOS?

In another thread, Tomlin is quoted as saying they had the look for it on D but we plain and simply did not execute it. I'm sorry, but with Ben being sacked six times AND taking a big hit running for a first down inside the 5, I don't understand why they wanted to run him again, when they could have and should have passed and it would have even been OK if a WR got out of bounds just to talk things over as to what to do next. That's what irks me, pass the ball upfield.

I think the summarizing factor of this season is everyone makes mistakes, but we hurt ourselves more than giving up positives to other teams,.

LVSteelersfan
01-06-2008, 07:57 PM
Arians will be going nowhere. Hopefully he and Tomlin learn something from the conservative playcalling that didn't work a lot of times and try to improve on it next year. The ST Coach, on the other hand, MUST GO. Bad tackling, not staying in your gaps, etc. led to almost every loss we had this year. MJD getting a 96 yard return after we marched down the field at the beginning of the game was just PUTRID. No excuse whatsoever for that pathetic lack of tackling. The Steelers need to get some players who know how to tackle for Special Teams next year. Special teams is all heart and they showed NONE of it so many times this year.

PINDEL1
01-06-2008, 10:26 PM
Davenport is a decent RB to have on the team but he is not a #1 or #2 back answer for the Steelers. Why do I say that >> If he was on the Jags team I do not think he could beat out either of there #1 and #2 backs.

So with that said he was our #1 back in that game. <<< That puts our running game in trouble before the game even started.

When we got the ball with at the 22 yd line with 3:43 left in the game.
Davenport had a pathetic 14 carries for 21 yards. His longest carry is 10 yds. Take that out and you have 13 carries for 11yds. For the record he finished with 16 carries for 25 yds.

So what do the coaches decide?

Here is were playing calling is on the friggin line.
They decide to give the ball to Davenport. 1st down he gains 5 yds. << Really not that bad. Its the 2nd & 3rd down calls that sink them. On 2nd down Davenport loses 1 yard. Now 3rd and 6 Ben in shotgun, runs left tackle for 1 yard. Then Dan punts a measly 40 yards. Well you know the rest of the story.

Lets review the last interception before the end of the first half at :56. That was a monster of a bad play. If we get 3 or 7 pts vs the interception (an off balance lineman) the 2 pt conversion would be a moot point because it would never have occurred. Add another 2 points ( Potential 9 pt swing). In other words the Jags could not have won with the game ending field goal.

Both games with the Jags were decided in the last 5 minutes by a field goal. The Steelers gave there all. Jags found away to win. It's over

steelers2685
01-06-2008, 10:35 PM
Well Fedko just made a comment that some assistant coaches may be in trouble here in the offseason, 'especially ST's, wink wink, nod nod' lol! We'll see how the front office handles it. I'm sure though that Tomlin is going to want to correct any mistakes that he sees prior to going into next season, even if it does involve assistant coaches.

TheMightyEx
01-06-2008, 11:04 PM
I wonder what coaching prospects are out there? Tomlin was hired late and didn't have the ideal conditions for staff building. Would be nice if someone knowledgeable could do a separate thread on this

Steeldude
01-07-2008, 07:37 AM
seriously dude, think about what you're saying, if you were running a football team and just fired a first year O coordinator, and o line coach and a ST coach at the same time you would be struggling to be 1-15

the steelers went with a new OC, O-line coach and ST coach this past year.

eafratitpm3
01-07-2008, 08:00 AM
Change the "Play Not To Lose'' mindset on offense=SB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Duke
01-07-2008, 10:08 AM
the steelers went with a new OC, O-line coach and ST coach this past year.

that's exactly my point, they are new! Whiz and Grimm had their job for some years already. not sure about the previous ST coordinator though, but I bet he had more than 1 year in the job

Dino 6 Rings
01-07-2008, 10:16 AM
1st round pick, Left Tackle
2nd Round pick, CENTER
3rd Round pick, Receiver
4th Round pick, Right Tackle
5th Round pick, Corner
6th Round pick, Guy to get tackled in August by our entire team to improve on our tackling ability.

Trades, Cedric Wilson may be done, get some value for him if you can, maybe a draft pick, or an O-line at least to have depth. Look for Reid to not make this team next season, and if Rossom can't show up for anything else except returning kicks, we may need to evaulate that situation just because a roster spot for a "specialist" isn't something that works great in this day and age.

Oh...and get me a freaking Fullback so when we do run out of the I formation, if we ever do again, we can see linebackers getting busted out of holes and the RB whoever it is, getting to the 2nd level.

Dino 6 Rings
01-07-2008, 10:26 AM
Oh, and the reason we should look at either trading for a Center or drafting one is so we can move Mahan to left guard, his natural position if we don't find a way to (franchise tag) keep Faneca.

As for coaching...coaching didn't lose us this game. 4 turnovers, 5 sacks, and bad tackling did.