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View Full Version : Flagrant Holding on Garrard's 4th down run


Hamer
01-06-2008, 07:38 AM
I didn't see this brought up in any other threads, but check out what Larry Foote said in the post game interview:

LB Larry Foote
General comment
“I don’t want to get fined. Watch the long quarterback sneak. Watch the middle of the defensive line, and you’ll see.”
Inaudible
“You’ll see it. Watch it. Replay that on SportsCenter, or whatever sports show it is, and watch what happened in the middle of the field.”
Did you see what happened on the edge?
“I saw it on the big screen, and I saw it during the play. See what happens.”
Is that something that was going on all game?’
“I don’t know. But I saw that play. You’ll see a big old hole open up, and you’ll see the reason why. That’s all I’ve got to say. Thank you.”


http://www.steelers.com/MediaContent/2008/01/05/22/Steelers-Jaguars_Post-Game_Quotes_86789.doc

7/39/43
01-06-2008, 07:50 AM
not only there bt also block in the back alot of botched calls by the Refs they all want Jags and Pats to win

Mosca
01-06-2008, 07:56 AM
We're the Steelers. We don't blame the refs. That crap is for Holmgren. Our philosophy is that we have to play well enough that the refs are not a factor.

Foote know in his heart that it is his frustration talking. There were enough missed opportunities throughout the game where if we'd executed, the crappy officiating wouldn't have mattered.

We benefited from some horrible calls as well. The PI in the end zone, wily Hines Ward pulled the defender onto him, by the face mask.

The officiating in the NFL playoffs can't keep up with the speed, power, and emotional intensity of these guys anymore.

Hamer
01-06-2008, 09:52 AM
Foote know in his heart that it is his frustration talking. There were enough missed opportunities throughout the game where if we'd executed, the crappy officiating wouldn't have mattered.

I can't argue with that!

But I feel the frustration too. I'd rather see no calls at all than 2 bad calls on each team that "even things out" , like in that commercial.

Unfortunately the Jags are a good team, they match up well with us, and that makes for close games. It's the playoffs. The games are not (in general) gonna have a referee 'comfort margin'. It's gonna come down to just a small handful of plays that decide the game.

I just hoped for better from an "all-star" officiating crew at the end of a tight NFL playoff game. (wishful thinking, I know.)

Mosca
01-06-2008, 10:20 AM
Yeah, the refs that are good enough (not great, but good enough) during the regular season seem to be overmatched once the game gets ratcheted up a notch. I understand the league's rationale in using the guys they do, but there's something to be said for taking all that huge profit that pro football generates and getting a hundred guys and paying them half a mil a year to be really right, all the time. Why not have a half dozen cameras, with guys monitoring them in real time and automated electronic scoreboard flags... the board goes yellow, and the replay of the infraction goes on the jumbo so everyone can see.

It wouldn't be all that hard to get it right.

steel striker
01-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Without a doubt there was some bad calls and, we almost won that game. The holding call on our 2 point conversion was total bs. That came back to bite us in the end. It was holding on the 4&2 on the qb draw that their qb gained 32 yeards. Whatever happened to getting a few calls for homefield? Oh well i'm just complaining a little here.

SteelDogFan
01-06-2008, 10:23 AM
I was screaming at the TV on that one. He almost spent James all the way around.

Pentheon
01-06-2008, 10:41 AM
can we get a clip of it...someone?

83-Steelers-43
01-06-2008, 11:01 AM
No excuses. We had our chances and we blew it. I'm not going to start acting like a Bengal or Seahawk fan and cry and moan about the officiating. Larry Foote has his opinion and it was a bad call IMO, but it happens. Good/great teams overcome the bad calls and take advantage of the opportunities given to them. We did not.

I would also bet the bank on Tomlin not using the officiating as an excuse.....thankfully.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 11:09 AM
We should have had a spy on Garrard, and that, more than any call or non-call, killed us. I'll leave whining about the refs to Squawks fans.

Atlanta Dan
01-06-2008, 11:14 AM
Agreed that complaining about the calls is not how you lose with class- Steelers talked all week about staying in their lanes on offense and then forgot about that on
4th and 2.

After the mediocre season Foote had I am disappointed he now is reduced to whining about the calls

shevdog
01-06-2008, 11:44 AM
I was at the game and didn't catch this. My tivo cut off the last 6 minutes or so of the game.

geo123
01-06-2008, 11:45 AM
Typically I don't like to make issue of the calls because over all most of the officiating is pretty good. There were two however that I question. The review of the Holmes catch, which even the announcers said was a catch. Then there was the (non) hold on the 2pt conversion. This was critical because initially they made the conversion

Edman
01-06-2008, 12:05 PM
There is no point in whining. Jacksonville beat us again. Take it like an adult.

RunWillieRun
01-06-2008, 12:14 PM
There is no point in whining. Jacksonville beat us again. Take it like an adult.



Yep...the no call was horrible but what else do you expect from the NFL (N ot F reaking L egitiment). The Jags own the Steelers...what a disgrace it is to get beaten twice, AT HOME, by the same team :banging: :banging:. Just disgusting...sad way to end the season....

dreamryche
01-06-2008, 12:14 PM
How about firing Bruce Arians? Horrible and inconsistent play calling from the 1st quarter until we were down 18!!!!!

stillers4me
01-06-2008, 12:14 PM
There is no point in whining. Jacksonville beat us again. Take it like an adult.

We'll have another chance at them next year. You can believe, our guys won't forget. :tt02:

RunWillieRun
01-06-2008, 12:18 PM
We'll have another chance at them next year. You can believe, our guys won't forget. :tt02:

Apparently they forgot about the December loss last night...:banging:

stillers4me
01-06-2008, 12:29 PM
Apparently they forgot about the December loss last night...:banging:

I disagree with you there. That was quite a comeback for battered, bruised up team that was the decided underdogs. Any one mistake, not made, could easliy have given us the game.

Atlanta Dan
01-06-2008, 12:34 PM
We'll have another chance at them next year. You can believe, our guys won't forget. :tt02:

Yep - Ward has met his match in chippiness with that Jax DB - Pats regularly beat the Steelers but Jax beats them and beats them up, which the Steelers are not used to - after the tight game last night IMO the 2008 rematch will be on Sunday night.

OX1947
01-06-2008, 12:50 PM
I saw so many Blatant holds in that game by the Jax line it was pathetic. I know holding can be called on every play, but I'm talking about pulling the jerseys from the back kind of holding. That (bleep) LT on Jax did that the entire game on Harrison.

OX1947
01-06-2008, 12:53 PM
The last drive was a head coaching decision. Knowing how pathetic our special teams has been, and the fact that the steelers were at their own 20 yard line, you might want to go for the first down. If it was at the 50, then fine, but crap man, one first down, would have ended it. The offense was on all cylinders, they just scored 19 points in a quarter, your telling me they didn't have at least one first down in them. Jax D was dead tired. **** man, just one first down would have ended it......

jjpro11
01-06-2008, 12:54 PM
harrison gets held every game and nothing gets called.. it was nothing new, and he's not the kind of player to complain about it. i hope we let the league office know though, so they watch it better next year.

12345
01-06-2008, 02:09 PM
I guess you all must have missed the obvious face mask grab that was overlooked by the officials, and instead was called pass interference on Jaguars in the end zone. That horible call resulted in a fresh set of downs for the Steelers, and ultimately a touchdown.

There's always bad calls on both sides. If you would have played better you would have won, but in this case, Jacksonville was clearly the better TEAM, despite almost giving it away at the end of the game.

Rhee Rhee
01-06-2008, 02:12 PM
After the mediocre season Foote had I am disappointed he now is reduced to whining about the calls

he may have had a mediocre season but in yesterdays loss to the jags he played like a probowler in my mind... he was blowing up plays and was playing at a much higher level than farrior

bigbenallstar
01-06-2008, 02:32 PM
:cheer:Wah Wah Wah

I do not see any of you talking about Hines Ward dragging a defender in to the end zone by his face mask and getting a cheesy pass interference call. You should be thanking the referees for the rest of your lifes for the gift the ref's gave you in superbowl 40. With out them, your prescious bus would have retired a fat never was. The only thing better than last years failure to even make the playoffs, is this years hypocritical whining after a first round loss. Maybe if Kimo Von Oloffen would have dove in to Gerards Knee the steelers would be moving on instead of crying into your terrible towels, knowing the rest of the country can not stand your obnoxious team or your obnoxious fans. Just to be nice, I will say Big Ben is a heck of a good quarterback.

Go Sea Hawks, enjoy your early vacation Steelers. Maybe next year the refs will be back on your pay roll.

stillers4me
01-06-2008, 02:34 PM
I see the Seawhiners are back in town.

Steelers 21
Seawhiners Zippo

That's what a healthy and whole Steelers team does to a bunch of crybabies.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 02:36 PM
:cheer:Wah Wah Wah

I do not see any of you talking about Hines Ward dragging a defender in to the end zone by his face mask and getting a cheesy pass interference call. You should be thanking the referees for the rest of your lifes for the gift the ref's gave you in superbowl 40. With out them, your prescious bus would have retired a fat never was. The only thing better than last years failure to even make the playoffs, is this years hypocritical whining after a first round loss. Maybe if Kimo Von Oloffen would have dove in to Gerards Knee the steelers would be moving on instead of crying into your terrible towels, knowing the rest of the country can not stand your obnoxious team or your obnoxious fans. Just to be nice, I will say Big Ben is a heck of a good quarterback.

Go Sea Hawks, enjoy your early vacation Steelers. Maybe next year the refs will be back on your pay roll.

Amusing, coming from a member of the biggest fanbase of crybabies in the NFL. I'll enjoy watching you get beat and having your season ended by Favre and Co. next week. Another impressive playoff win over the "powerhouse" Redskins yesterday. :rolleyes:

As far as SB XL? WAAAHHH! WAAAAHHH! Bitch, whine, moan. :crying01:

Asshat troll. :coffee:

stillers4me
01-06-2008, 02:40 PM
Amusing, coming from a member of the biggest fanbase of crybabies in the NFL. I'll enjoy watching you get beat and having your season ended by Favre and Co. next week. Another impressive playoff win over the "powerhouse" Redskins yesterday. :rolleyes:

As far as SB XL? WAAAHHH! WAAAAHHH! Bitch, whine, moan. :crying01:

Asshat troll. :coffee:

:sofunny:

HometownGal
01-06-2008, 02:59 PM
Maybe if Kimo Von Oloffen would have dove in to Gerards Knee the steelers would be moving on instead of crying into your terrible towels, knowing the rest of the country can not stand your obnoxious team or your obnoxious fans.

Hey dumb ass - Kimo hasn't played for the Steelers in the last two seasons. :toofunny::toofunny:

Steeler Nation is WORLD wide, you nar-nar

Outside of Seattle, seahawks are known for shit ting on boardwalks, not for being a standout NFL team.

lotas
01-06-2008, 03:06 PM
:cheer:Wah Wah Wah

I do not see any of you talking about Hines Ward dragging a defender in to the end zone by his face mask and getting a cheesy pass interference call. You should be thanking the referees for the rest of your lifes for the gift the ref's gave you in superbowl 40. With out them, your prescious bus would have retired a fat never was. The only thing better than last years failure to even make the playoffs, is this years hypocritical whining after a first round loss. Maybe if Kimo Von Oloffen would have dove in to Gerards Knee the steelers would be moving on instead of crying into your terrible towels, knowing the rest of the country can not stand your obnoxious team or your obnoxious fans. Just to be nice, I will say Big Ben is a heck of a good quarterback.

Go Sea Hawks, enjoy your early vacation Steelers. Maybe next year the refs will be back on your pay roll.
You do realize Seattle's division is Arizona, St. Louis, and San Fran?
Do I need to say more?
You realize last year the Seahawks lucked out on that botched FG.
This year they play 1 playoff team in the reg. season, and then sneak by the Deadskins in a deceiving score of 35-14...a game that in the middle of the 4th quarter was near tied 14-13.

I'm so sick of Seattle fans...I live with them in Seattle, and I say it all the time. They are some of THE WORST FANS. Almost 100% fairweather, even with all sports, Mariners and Sonics included. Seattle is a bunch of liberal pussies to be honest. They are not sports fans.

SteelSurf
01-06-2008, 03:24 PM
Like me, many of you grew up as Steelers fans on the knees of your dad or grampa watching the games at the stadium or on TV. Like me, your dad prolly let you take a sip of beer 'only during the game' as he would explain to your mom, with a smile on his face. Your Dad prolly explained Steeler fandom and Lifes rules to you as well. #1 rule, dont blame anybody but yourselves if something doesnt go your way. #2 Let us be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat. #3 Never let another team decide whether you make it to the playoffs on game 16 . Win it before. #4 Leave the showboating and big mouthing for the other guys, let our hard smashmouth way of Steeler ball speak for itself.
:helmet:
This is the Steeler way. The Only way. This is our rep throughout the other 31 teams,let's not forget it. I know it's hard to do. I watched the game as all you did. I'm not schooling anyone, I yelled at the refs plenty! We had plenty of chances to overcome any call from the officials. We didnt take them.
:helmet:
You win some, you lose some.... and some get washed out. Besides, it wouldnt be fun if we won every year,would it? waitadangminute, that's not a bad idea.....
:tt02::tt02::tt02::tt02::tt02:

HometownGal
01-06-2008, 03:25 PM
On the NFL Today pre-game show before the Tites/Chargers game, Boomer just mentioned the hold on Jax's D that should have been called last night on Garrard's run. Of course Mule Face Sharpe had to come back with "what about Hines Ward grabbing the face mask that should have been called?"

DP_Steeler
01-06-2008, 05:11 PM
Refs will always screw things up ... you need to play so that you do not depend on the refs. The Steelers depended on anyone but themselves in this late comeback!

stillers4me
01-06-2008, 05:34 PM
Refs will always screw things up ... you need to play so that you do not depend on the refs. The Steelers depended on anyone but themselves in this late comeback!

Really?

I could have sworn I saw Ben put on his Superman suit at one point and bring his team back from the brink of no return (with a little assistance from Ike).............and hold a one point lead for a good portion of 4th quarter.

revefsreleets
01-06-2008, 06:26 PM
Casey Hampton was held all night, and he was VERY vocal about it.

James Harrison was held all night.

So what? How is this different from any other game? Ben made some horrible throws. The offensive line gave up 6 sacks. Our special teams is the worst in the NFL. THESE are the reasons we lost last night.

LVSteelersfan
01-06-2008, 06:43 PM
Plain and simple, poor first half play after the first drive and SPECIAL TEAMS lost the game for the Steelers. Plus conservative play calling by Arians on that drive that would have won the game. What else is new this year? The D came to play for the most part. The Steelers had their chances but you get what you get with Big Ben. He is a gunslinger and that backfires at times. FIRE THE DAMN SPECIAL TEAMS COACH !!! NOW !!!!!!!!! And Arians right on his heels !!!!!!!!!

PINDEL1
01-06-2008, 08:33 PM
The last drive was a head coaching decision. Knowing how pathetic our special teams has been, and the fact that the steelers were at their own 20 yard line, you might want to go for the first down. If it was at the 50, then fine, but crap man, one first down, would have ended it. The offense was on all cylinders, they just scored 19 points in a quarter, your telling me they didn't have at least one first down in them. Jax D was dead tired. **** man, just one first down would have ended it......

You got that all exactly right.......
What the Steelers had to over come in the Jags game.
1. How about all the injuries the Steelers had to deal with before the game even started. Quality players injured and out (6= Marvel Smith, Starks, Parker, Aaron Smith, Ryan Clark, Dan Kreider).
2. Oh sure there were plenty of huge mistakes made during the game that the Steelers had to overcome. Special teams early major blunder, Coaching with the 2 pt. conversion decisions, Bens interceptions, weak offensive line play.

Despite all of the above problems the Steelers had just overcame all of them. The defense had just made the Jags punt. Its a new ball game at least we think it is. We are in the lead with the ball at the 22 yard line with 3:43 left in the game.

We are in unfavorable field position situation. We need first downs to ice this game and to put Jacksonville in an unfavorable field position.

Davenport is a decent RB to have on the team but he is not a #1 or #2 back answer for the Steelers. Why do I say that >> If he was on the Jags team I do not think he could beat out either of the #1 and #2 backs. So with that said he was our #1 back in that game. <<< That puts our running game in trouble before the game even started.

At this point in the game Davenport has a pathetic 14 carries for 21 yards. His longest carry is 10 yds. Take that out and you have 13 carries for 11yds. For the record he finished with 16 carries for 25 yds.
So what do the coaches decide?
Here is were playing calling is on the friggin line.
They decide to give the ball to Davenport. 1st down he gains 5 yds. << Really not that bad. Its the 2nd & 3rd down calls that sink them. On 2nd down Davenport loses 1 yard. Now 3rd and 6 Ben in shotgun, runs left tackle for 1 yard. Then Dan punts a measly 40 yards. Well you know the rest of the story.

Both games with the Jags were decided in the last 5 minutes by a field goal. They found away to win.
How about if we had scored 3 or 7 pts. near the end of the 1st half vs Ben's interception. No 2 pt conversion BS. The Jags would have needed more than a field goal at the end to win. <<< Whatever its over.

CargoJon
01-06-2008, 08:59 PM
I was screaming at the TV during that run for the hold...it was terrible.

What was also terrible was not only the missed tackle by Tyron Carter on that run....his final miss of several I say, the most blatant of which was on Jones-Drew's TD.

On the one pick, Ben missed seeing a wide open receiver @ first down yardage in favor of throwing into double coverage.

There was a multitude of errors by both the Steelers players and the officials.

That all being said, the Seahawks fans are by far the worst. My wife's cousin is a chicken's fan and every time I see him, he still whines about the officiating. *yawn*

Lord Stiller
01-06-2008, 09:05 PM
Doesnt look like flagrant holding to me

If anything, Carter should have been penalized for tackling like a vagina

Godfather
01-06-2008, 09:10 PM
We should have had a spy on Garrard, and that, more than any call or non-call, killed us. I'll leave whining about the refs to Squawks fans.

I thought the same thing until I saw the replay. One of the O-lineman went out and picked up the spy. Very well designed play.

fansince'76
01-06-2008, 09:11 PM
I thought the same thing until I saw the replay. One of the O-lineman went out and picked up the spy. Very well designed play.

Thanks - I really didn't pick that up on the replay - good eye. :cheers:

CargoJon
01-06-2008, 09:11 PM
Doesnt look like flagrant holding to me

If anything, Carter should have been penalized for tackling like a vagina


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I hadn't recalled such poor play out of Carter before, but I really noticed it last night.

:helmet:

NV STEELERS 723
01-06-2008, 10:22 PM
So glad the Seahags beeitch got banned...they are such lil winers! lol

augustashark
01-06-2008, 10:58 PM
Really?

I could have sworn I saw Ben put on his Superman suit at one point and bring his team back from the brink of no return (with a little assistance from Ike).............and hold a one point lead for a good portion of 4th quarter.

So what was he wearing when he threw 3 ints?

Preacher
01-06-2008, 11:14 PM
So what was he wearing when he threw 3 ints?

The screwups of the offensive line. :coffee:

Preacher
01-06-2008, 11:15 PM
I thought the same thing until I saw the replay. One of the O-lineman went out and picked up the spy. Very well designed play.

I was wanting the same thing... a spy. didn't see that he was picked up.

Thanks for the info.

Preacher
01-07-2008, 01:30 AM
I will not blame a lose on refing it just seems to Seabitch like to me. But what i will sy is somethign needs to be addressed in the off season as far as team using the Arm bar/ Clothesline/ chokehold to beat our speed rush on the outside.I have seen this too many times this season not get called, but too me it's holding.

I agree completely. I have seen it many times. I also agree with you that good teams overcome things like that. We lost the game, not the refs. Good post.

augustashark
01-07-2008, 01:39 AM
The screwups of the offensive line. :coffee:

Keep putting your coffee smiley up, very mature. All I was trying to say is you can't have all the good without the bad. By the way, not all 3 of the Ints were due to the OL. :coffee:

Preacher
01-07-2008, 01:42 AM
Keep putting your coffee smiley up, very mature. All I was trying to say is you can't have all the good without the bad. By the way, not all 3 of the Ints were due to the OL. :coffee:

:coffee: One was due to a great defensive play by a defensive lineman... those things happen. :coffee:



and one for good measure! :coffee:

augustashark
01-07-2008, 01:45 AM
LOL, just what I wanted. Put the cheese on the trap and the mouse will come.

Preacher
01-07-2008, 02:15 AM
LOL, just what I wanted. Put the cheese on the trap and the mouse will come.

I thought you would like that... and understand the spirit which it was intended. :wink02:

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-07-2008, 04:04 AM
The truth is...it was a fourth and 2 and we sat back instead of getting in Garrards face. Additionally Carter hesistated when he saw Garrard start to run...you could literally see Carter pull up and stop and try to redirect. At that stage of the game, knowing you cant afford to give up any extra yardage, you have to be a heck of a lot more aggressive than Tyrone was...and step up into the runner. Hesitating against an approaching runner will almost always make your runner "play your hips" and you will end up reaching for your man and missing.

We can't control the refs calls..but we can most certainly control our fundamentals.

CargoJon
01-07-2008, 09:27 AM
Would we have been better off if Garrard scored a TD on that run?

We would have had our full timeout compliment. We would have had more time to try to mount a game winning or tying if they got the 2 pt) drive of our own.

Thoughts?

stlrtruck
01-07-2008, 09:52 AM
Since 2001 the officiating crews have gotten worse and calling the game and better at watching it.

I will be watching this coming weekend's games to prove or disprove my conspiracy theory - What the NFL Wants? AFC = Colts vs. patriacheats NFC=Favre vs. the cowgirls. Let's see if the officials guarentee this by missing a few calls or making a few phantom ones.

And while I agree that teams need to overcome this, it bothers me that the league allows such activity by officials.

And I will not blame the officials for our loss, rather the Steelers!

CargoJon
01-07-2008, 12:26 PM
Since 2001 the officiating crews have gotten worse and calling the game and better at watching it.

I will be watching this coming weekend's games to prove or disprove my conspiracy theory - What the NFL Wants? AFC = Colts vs. patriacheats NFC=Favre vs. the cowgirls. Let's see if the officials guarentee this by missing a few calls or making a few phantom ones.

And while I agree that teams need to overcome this, it bothers me that the league allows such activity by officials.

And I will not blame the officials for our loss, rather the Steelers!

What irritates me worse is watching the head of officiating on NFL network the following Monday, defending all the piss poor calls that were made the day before. :banging:

stlrtruck
01-07-2008, 01:05 PM
I think the NFL should open up a fanbased forum where officials have to explain the reasons for/against such poor calls with video evidence and explicit outline of the rules.

For example, it would be nice if we could show a video of the Mahan holding that denied a two point conversion with the video of the gerrard 4th and 2 run. To me they looked identical in nature.

jjpro11
01-07-2008, 04:00 PM
I think the NFL should open up a fanbased forum where officials have to explain the reasons for/against such poor calls with video evidence and explicit outline of the rules.

For example, it would be nice if we could show a video of the Mahan holding that denied a two point conversion with the video of the gerrard 4th and 2 run. To me they looked identical in nature.

how bout ward getting his head ripped off on the same play and there not being an offsetting penalty? it was on the front page of the post gazette after the game.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200801/20080106pdsteelers0105e_160.jpg

conservativesteelers
01-07-2008, 04:15 PM
Flagrant holding or not.. You can't give the Jags a chance to win, or the refs a chance to give the jags a win whether it's the refs fault or not, doesn't matter. When the Steelers had the ball.. they should have been able to execute, and held onto it.. Now.. I can question the Steelers play calling on that next to last possesion.. but I've already done that in other posts.

Dino 6 Rings
01-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Be winning the game 28-0 in the 4th quarter and not allow the other team a chance to even breath or hope by executing all 3 phases of the game with Playoff Style and a holding call on 4th and 2 isn't an issue.

Perform consistantly all game and then, you don't have to worry about a ref's call late that "turns the game".

Get it done early, put the foot down late. That's how we won the Superbowl, that's how we will win it again.

12+88=6
01-10-2008, 12:50 AM
just in case someone besides the ref didn't see the hold, here are some pics.

i like the last one, the ref is actually looking right at it.

they should have put them away when they had the chance then this wouldn't even matter, that's what is the most sickining.

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 08:04 AM
College basketball players have been caught point shaving. A Pro basketball ref was caught cheating last year. Remember reading about the World Series Black Sox scandal? Ever hear of a boxer taking a dive?

Do you really believe that Pro football is "clean"?
Pro football scores are also "fixed" by the refs to "help" with the point spreads. There's just too much betting in football to keep it clean. Take a trip to Vegas & see the truth behind the curtain.

Enjoy Pro sports & regard them the same as Championship wrestling. The fix is in my friends.

Jeremy
01-10-2008, 08:11 AM
not only there bt also block in the back alot of botched calls by the Refs they all want Jags and Pats to win

I guess that means everyone wanted the Steelers to win SBXL too huh.....

Stop whining about the refs. That kind of crap is for Tom Terrific and his Merry Bunch of Metrosexuals.

Jeremy
01-10-2008, 08:13 AM
College basketball players have been caught point shaving. A Pro basketball ref was caught cheating last year. Remember reading about the World Series Black Sox scandal? Ever hear of a boxer taking a dive?

Do you really believe that Pro football is "clean"?
Pro football scores are also "fixed" by the refs to "help" with the point spreads. There's just too much betting in football to keep it clean. Take a trip to Vegas & see the truth behind the curtain.

Enjoy Pro sports & regard them the same as Championship wrestling. The fix is in my friends.

It would be wonderful if you could find one shred of proof to back up your bullshit. But like most whiners, you have nothing.

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 08:19 AM
IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK & WADDLES LIKE A DUCK & QUACKS LIKE A DUCK....IT'S A DUCK!!!

Just an observation. Has nothing to do with whining. Grow up!!!

Lord Stiller
01-10-2008, 08:29 AM
here is the clearest video I have seen showing the clear-cut hold on James Harrison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB7jbqP-NPk

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 08:44 AM
Great job Lord Stiller!! A video is worth a thousand words!!
:thumbsup:

Mosca
01-10-2008, 09:26 AM
IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK & WADDLES LIKE A DUCK & QUACKS LIKE A DUCK....IT'S A DUCK!!!

Just an observation. Has nothing to do with whining. Grow up!!!

So, a mechanical robot duck must be a duck? I'm pretty grown up, thank you, but I'm not stupid enough to believe you.

fansince'76
01-10-2008, 09:30 AM
(Cue X-Files theme song) "The Truth is out there." :couch:

fansince'76
01-10-2008, 09:35 AM
Do you really believe that Pro football is "clean"?
Pro football scores are also "fixed" by the refs to "help" with the point spreads. There's just too much betting in football to keep it clean.

Sorry, but that is :bs:. If pro football is truly "fixed," please explain the "Immaculate Reception," "the Catch," and the "Music City Miracle," among others. There's NO WAY game-winning plays like those can be scripted like the WWE. NO WAY.

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Dear fansince "76

Of course not every game can be perfectly "scripted". Refs can't influence everything!!!!

HOWEVER, the "Football Mafia" knows that they will lose a few battles but still win the war. Vegas has odds tilted in their favor on slots, blackjack, etc....and also football!

Watch the point spreads every week....then study them year after year.

Don't be duped!! Watch the money...yep that's the ticket....Watch The Money!!!

BlastFurnace
01-10-2008, 12:17 PM
Dear fansince "76

Of course not every game can be perfectly "scripted". Refs can't influence everything!!!!

HOWEVER, the "Football Mafia" knows that they will lose a few battles but still win the war. Vegas has odds tilted in their favor on slots, blackjack, etc....and also football!

Watch the point spreads every week....then study them year after year.

Don't be duped!! Watch the money...yep that's the ticket....Watch The Money!!!

Some games really make you scratch your head and wonder. When Joey Porter says that very thing after a playoff game, it makes you wonder if the players have their suspicions as well.

I, like you, don't believe that every game falls into that category, but I do believe that there are more crooked refs out there that we know about. You can't tell me that Peter Morelli didn't have an alterior motive in what he tried to do to the Steelers in the Indy playoff game where the Steelers were on the verge of spoiling the NFL's marquee team that year. Don't think for a minute that Goodell is not just chomping at the bit to have another undefeated team this season.

I used to be a huge NBA fan until I felt that the league was not on the up-and-up. I haven't watched the NBA since the Lakers vs. Trail Blazers series when the Lakers...in foul trouble and down by 25+ points...miraculously come back and Shaq...who was in foul trouble...does not receive a single foul the rest of the game. Funny...I'm not sure, but it sure created some serious doubt. I don't watch the NBA an longer because I don't think it is a league that is run with any integrity.

Morelli's actions in the Indianapolis playoff game in 2005 really bothered me and still does. I have a really hard time believing that he was just trying "to get the call right" in that situation after he searched for an eternity to find the smallest piece of evidence that Troy didn't intercept that pass. He looked long enough to try to justify it. If you notice, Porter did not get fined for his comments, newspaper writers said the NFL avoided a huge black eye because the Steelers won, and the whole situation was completely swept under the rug by the NFL.

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 12:29 PM
Dear BlastFurnace

The NLF levies fines against the players in order to "try" to keep them quiet.
The players know what's going on.

Follow the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 4

Preacher
01-10-2008, 12:39 PM
One word.


LITHIUM.


May I suggest you get some Thomas.

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 12:48 PM
Fourth down and 2. If he were stopped the game would have been over.

The point spread changed from 3(earlier in the week) to 2(mid week) to 3 by game time.

Where did the big boys have their money?

Hey, I'm not whining about the Steelers. It is what it is!

Preacher
01-10-2008, 12:49 PM
I don't know about blaming the refs for that one. You can't really do that in football unless it's an incredibly blatant, horribly game-changing call at exactly the wrong time -- I'm talking Troy's interception against the Colts two years ago, or the Patriots' "tuck rule." And there have only been a handful of those that I can remember in my entire lifetime.

In this case, sure, you might say a holding call would've changed the outcome. But then again, so would a lot of more important things -- like, say, actually making at least one first down on the possession before that. Or not spotting our opponents 14 points with an interception for a TD and a 96-yard kickoff return. Those things killed us a lot more than a bad call or a botched 2-point conversion.

Exactly.


With all this whining.. I am starting to be a little ashamed of Steeler nation. BUTCH UP.

BlastFurnace
01-10-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't know about blaming the refs for that one. You can't really do that in football unless it's an incredibly blatant, horribly game-changing call at exactly the wrong time -- I'm talking Troy's interception against the Colts two years ago, or the Patriots' "tuck rule." And there have only been a handful of those that I can remember in my entire lifetime.

In this case, sure, you might say a holding call would've changed the outcome. But then again, so would a lot of more important things -- like, say, actually making at least one first down on the possession before that. Or not spotting our opponents 14 points with an interception for a TD and a 96-yard kickoff return. Those things killed us a lot more than a bad call or a botched 2-point conversion.

I agree with you. The non-holding call was not a conspiracy. The Steelers lost that game.

There are only a handful that I remember as well in the NFL. The two you mentioned were the ones that immediately come to mind. The NBA...to me...is an entirely different story though.

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 01:01 PM
I agree with you. The non-holding call was not a conspiracy. The Steelers lost that game.

There are only a handful that I remember as well in the NFL. The two you mentioned were the ones that immediately come to mind. The NBA...to me...is an entirely different story though.

SO..... the NBA is fixed but not the NFL? Just because you didn't get caught doesn't mean you didn't do it.

This is the "My little Johnny doesn't do bad things"defense. ALL professional games have their "cheaters."

Stu Pidasso
01-10-2008, 01:11 PM
But not all of them got caught. TWICE.

BlastFurnace
01-10-2008, 01:16 PM
SO..... the NBA is fixed but not the NFL? Just because you didn't get caught doesn't mean you didn't do it.

This is the "My little Johnny doesn't do bad things"defense. ALL professional games have their "cheaters."

I don't think it is as blatant in the NFL as the NBA, but I agree that there are calls that make you wonder in both leagues.

As an example this past weekend, it wasn't an NFL conspiracy that the Steelers special teams would give up a touchdown...it has been a year long problem for the Steelers and it completely took the momentum away from us, not the referees.

Lord Stiller
01-10-2008, 01:17 PM
The refs sucking wasn't a conspiracy, it was just incompetence

Thomas Mihalich
01-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Gotta go gang....nice chattin with you all. Don't be too upset about the game. We all have our opinions...that's what makes for a good discussion.

Charity begins at home take good care of yourself & families.

GO STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fansince'76
01-10-2008, 01:56 PM
Gotta go gang....nice chattin with you all. Don't be too upset about the game.

I'm really not upset about the game, personally - Jax was a better team than we were this year, and it was proven twice on our home field. They also have a more realistic chance of beating NE in Foxboro than we would have. Take care. :cheers:

jjpro11
01-10-2008, 09:20 PM
I'm really not upset about the game, personally - Jax was a better team than we were this year, and it was proven twice on our home field. They also have a more realistic chance of beating NE in Foxboro than we would have. Take care. :cheers:

i didnt really think we had a chance in the playoffs either.. but i wanted this win because it would have gone down as a classic, and one of the best games in steelers history. sucks that we had that kind of win in our hands and let it slip away at the very end.

Rhee Rhee
01-11-2008, 01:15 AM
i cannot believe that we have 80+ posts on this one topic... we lost the game cause of us not the refs.. (it took me a while to believe that myself..)

Haiku_Dirtt
01-11-2008, 02:34 AM
We're the Steelers. We don't blame the refs. That crap is for Holmgren. Our philosophy is that we have to play well enough that the refs are not a factor.

Foote know in his heart that it is his frustration talking. There were enough missed opportunities throughout the game where if we'd executed, the crappy officiating wouldn't have mattered.

We benefited from some horrible calls as well. The PI in the end zone, wily Hines Ward pulled the defender onto him, by the face mask.

The officiating in the NFL playoffs can't keep up with the speed, power, and emotional intensity of these guys anymore.

Exactly. This entire season has nothing to do with the officials. The ZEBRAS DONT BLOCK. And neither does our line.

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 06:27 AM
Exactly. This entire season has nothing to do with the officials. The ZEBRAS DONT BLOCK. And neither does our line.

I agree with everything you said!!!

The entire season had nothing to do with the officials. (But the Flagrant Holding on Garrad's 4th down run did have something to do with the officials).

The ZEBRAS DON'T BLOCK. (Neither do the cheerleaders...everyone knows that!)

And neither does our line. (Defensive line however did get held, especially on 4th down & 2)

This whole thread concerns only one play in the game. Look at post #68 in this thread for the video. That hole was big enough for a snow plow!!! How did that hole get so big?? Watch the video. That down was extremely important at that point in the game!! How would you call it?

I'm 55 years old and have been watching football all my life. There was holding on that play. Simple as that. No whining required with the cheese.

Hey, do you think Jack Lambert was watching the game? I wonder what Jack thought of Carter's "tackle" on Garard to end the play?

DACEB
01-11-2008, 08:23 AM
here is the clearest video I have seen showing the clear-cut hold on James Harrison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB7jbqP-NPk

Wow, honestly I had no idea until now watching that video just how flagrant the hold was.

Noone between Silverback and Garrard, Harrison getting completely spun around by the lineman WTF!! Hampton also getting tackled to the ground!!

I initially said, hey you know what there's holding on every play, but that was just rediculous. There was also a blatant hold on the KR for 96yds, my wife even saw that one.

Damn, now I'm pissed!!

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 09:01 AM
Wow, honestly I had no idea until now watching that video just how flagrant the hold was.

Noone between Silverback and Garrard, Harrison getting completely spun around by the lineman WTF!! Hampton also getting tackled to the ground!!

I initially said, hey you know what there's holding on every play, but that was just rediculous. There was also a blatant hold on the KR for 96yds, my wife even saw that one.

Damn, now I'm pissed!!

Look at the Ref. in the first frame, he had a clear view and followed the play.
Players on offense just held on til Garrard cleared the hole .

Hey, it was 4th down, what did they have to lose? It was the best strategic call of the game. So what if they got penalized, they would still have another shot at 4th down.

HometownGal
01-11-2008, 09:53 AM
People, people, people - whatsa matta for you? :dang::dang:

We are Pittsburgh Steelers fans - not Waaaaaahawks fans. Hines didn't get called for that facemask penalty which led to a TD on that same drive and that one was as obvious as the hold on Garrard's 4th down run. Both screwups by the refs led to points for both teams and being torqued off about it doesn't change what is. The Jags are moving on, we're not. Time for US to move on, as well.

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 10:24 AM
People, people, people - whatsa matta for you? :dang::dang:

We are Pittsburgh Steelers fans - not Waaaaaahawks fans. Hines didn't get called for that facemask penalty which led to a TD on that same drive and that one was as obvious as the hold on Garrard's 4th down run. Both screwups by the refs led to points for both teams and being torqued off about it doesn't change what is. The Jags are moving on, we're not. Time for US to move on, as well.

EH, whatsa you problemo? This a threada da "Flagrant Holding on Garrard's 4th down run>" Watcha da video. Dema Jags were a holdin an dancin wid our boys! Kapeech? Move a on youself gal. :wave:

mastermind1967
01-11-2008, 12:16 PM
People! We are Steelers fans. We know that we never expect to get get calls. I will point out three specific examples.

1. Pittsburgh vs. Titans a few years back. Nedney misses a chipshot, takes a flop and gets to re-kick. (Nedney was one of the best that year and it was a short one.) Titans win.

2. Pittsburgh vs. New England - We pull to within seven. Its third and ten. Troy Brown blocks Aaron smith and then tries to get away. Aaron Smith pushes him aside, Brady throws an incompletion. Holding against Aaron Smith, Pats 1st down. They go on to score again. 14 point lead. We lose.

3. Holding against the Jags (Need I say more.)

Pitt must learn not to put themselves in this position.

We were the FIRST dynasty, the first to four Super Bowls. We get no love from the Refs or the league.

We have to win on our terms. Period!

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 12:32 PM
People! We are Steelers fans. We know that we never expect to get get calls. I will point out three specific examples.

1. Pittsburgh vs. Titans a few years back. Nedney misses a chipshot, takes a flop and gets to re-kick. (Nedney was one of the best that year and it was a short one.) Titans win.

2. Pittsburgh vs. New England - We pull to within seven. Its third and ten. Troy Brown blocks Aaron smith and then tries to get away. Aaron Smith pushes him aside, Brady throws an incompletion. Holding against Aaron Smith, Pats 1st down. They go on to score again. 14 point lead. We lose.

3. Holding against the Jags (Need I say more.)

Pitt must learn not to put themselves in this position.

We were the FIRST dynasty, the first to four Super Bowls. We get no love from the Refs or the league.

We have to win on our terms. Period!

You have to get by with a little help from your friends!!!

My sons are five years apart in age. We often played a backyard game of football where I was the quarterback for both sides. "Somehow" the games always ended up tied even though the older son was better than the younger son. The games were eventually referred to as "Daddy Ball" instead of football. Think someone's playing "Daddy Ball" with the NFL.:wink02:

HometownGal
01-11-2008, 12:38 PM
EH, whatsa you problemo? This a threada da "Flagrant Holding on Garrard's 4th down run>" Watcha da video. Dema Jags were a holdin an dancin wid our boys! Kapeech? Move a on youself gal. :wave:

I know what the name of the thread is and the purpose for which it was started. DUH. :dang: My point is - here we are - almost a week later - still B & Ming about something that can't be changed or called back at this point. Jags 31 - Steelers 29. It's over. Let's move on for God's sake, starting with you Mr. Mihalich. :wave:

mastermind1967
01-11-2008, 12:44 PM
I agree with you Gal. i seen enough seasons end this way. Now its time to talk about the next year.

ShutDown24
01-11-2008, 12:47 PM
DIE THREAD DIE!

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 01:15 PM
I know what the name of the thread is and the purpose for which it was started. DUH. :dang: My point is - here we are - almost a week later - still B & Ming about something that can't be changed or called back at this point. Jags 31 - Steelers 29. It's over. Let's move on for God's sake, starting with you Mr. Mihalich. :wave:

Now now...let's not let's not get sore about it.:cheers:
Do you realize that the play we're posting about in this thread is the Jag's "Immaculate Reception"?

I was twenty years old with my finger on the television off button when Franco caught that ball. What a celebration we had! Many people still talk about the "legality" of that play. That win was the last for the Steelers that year just as last week will probably be the last for the Jags this year!

Well now the tables are turned on a play that ended the Steelers season. It was near the end of the game and whatever transpired earlier in the game really doesn't matter. One play...one last chance.

Aren't all the threads about coulda, woulda & shoulda? Past, present & future??
There's no need to move on. This play will be talked about for many years to come.

Fan is the abbreviation for fanatic! Bitching & moaning is a big part of it!!!
Have fun with it!!!!:smile: Go Steelers!!!!!:tt02:

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 01:46 PM
Now now...let's not let's not get sore about it.:cheers:
Do you realize that the play we're posting about in this thread is the Jag's "Immaculate Reception"?

I was twenty years old with my finger on the television off button when Franco caught that ball. What a celebration we had! Many people still talk about the "legality" of that play. That win was the last for the Steelers that year just as last week will probably be the last for the Jags this year!

Well now the tables are turned on a play that ended the Steelers season. It was near the end of the game and whatever transpired earlier in the game really doesn't matter. One play...one last chance.

Aren't all the threads about coulda, woulda & shoulda? Past, present & future??
There's no need to move on. This play will be talked about for many years to come.

Fan is the abbreviation for fanatic! Bitching & moaning is a big part of it!!!
Have fun with it!!!!:smile: Go Steelers!!!!!:tt02:

P.S. Failed to mention that I've lived in Cleveland since 1980. It's tough being a Steeler fan in this town! :dang:I tell everyone that my property is Steeler Country!! Gotta go, time to take a hike on the Buckeye trail. Have a great weekend everynutty!!!:wave:

HometownGal
01-11-2008, 02:13 PM
Do you realize that the play we're posting about in this thread is the Jag's "Immaculate Reception"?

I was twenty years old with my finger on the television off button when Franco caught that ball. What a celebration we had! Many people still talk about the "legality" of that play. That win was the last for the Steelers that year just as last week will probably be the last for the Jags this year!



That play in no way reminds me of the Immaculate Reception - not even close. The biggest difference of all is that the Steelers were the benefactors of that play. :wink02: Continuing to B & M after the fact a week later is remiscent of that big oaf Madden and Raider Nation still whining and blubbering over the Immaculate Reception 35+ years later. :dang:

Well now the tables are turned on a play that ended the Steelers season. It was near the end of the game and whatever transpired earlier in the game really doesn't matter. One play...one last chance.



The way I look at it, Tom, is that if the Steelers had to depend on that "one last play", "one last chance" - when they had other chances to win that game on both sides of the ball throughout the game - they didn't really deserve the win. The bottom line is - the Jags for the most part, played 60 minutes of football. No purpose in sugar-coating it. The Steelers didn't. End of story.

Aren't all the threads about coulda, woulda & shoulda? Past, present & future??
There's no need to move on. This play will be talked about for many years to come.

Fan is the abbreviation for fanatic! Bitching & moaning is a big part of it!!!
Have fun with it!!!!:smile: Go Steelers!!!!!:tt02

Hey - if you want to spin around on this broken record for 35+ years down the road that's on you - have at it. I highly doubt this play will be talked about for years to come, as most Steelers fans, the Steelers themselves and the media have forgotten about it by now. When all is said and done, it is really a moot point. The game is over, our season is over and now we have the draft to look forward to!

Cheerio, pip pip and all of that other bloody stuff. :cheers:

NM :chuckle:

steel65
01-11-2008, 03:33 PM
Without a doubt there was some bad calls and, we almost won that game. The holding call on our 2 point conversion was total bs. That came back to bite us in the end. It was holding on the 4&2 on the qb draw that their qb gained 32 yeards. Whatever happened to getting a few calls for homefield? Oh well i'm just complaining a little here.

How about the 2point conversion when they called holding did the ref forget to call fasemask that guy had his hands all over hines helment. It tells you alot about the blind officiating.Oh well maybe they get the makeup call next playoff time.

SteelCityMan786
01-11-2008, 06:18 PM
We should have had a spy on Garrard, and that, more than any call or non-call, killed us. I'll leave whining about the refs to Squawks fans.

Considering those are the kings of it.

Thomas Mihalich
01-11-2008, 07:08 PM
That play in no way reminds me of the Immaculate Reception - not even close. The biggest difference of all is that the Steelers were the benefactors of that play. :wink02: Continuing to B & M after the fact a week later is remiscent of that big oaf Madden and Raider Nation still whining and blubbering over the Immaculate Reception 35+ years later. :dang:



The way I look at it, Tom, is that if the Steelers had to depend on that "one last play", "one last chance" - when they had other chances to win that game on both sides of the ball throughout the game - they didn't really deserve the win. The bottom line is - the Jags for the most part, played 60 minutes of football. No purpose in sugar-coating it. The Steelers didn't. End of story.



Hey - if you want to spin around on this broken record for 35+ years down the road that's on you - have at it. I highly doubt this play will be talked about for years to come, as most Steelers fans, the Steelers themselves and the media have forgotten about it by now. When all is said and done, it is really a moot point. The game is over, our season is over and now we have the draft to look forward to!

Cheerio, pip pip and all of that other bloody stuff. :cheers:

NM :chuckle:

The Steelers should draft you Gal, what a fighter!!!!:cheers:

Just remember this.......(and you know it too) if the Steelers had won, it would go down as one of their greatest games ever. In spite of the Steeler's walking wounded, bad special teams, poor tackling, turnovers, bad play calls, refs., diminished OL & DL skills,etc. etc. they almost pulled it off!!!! :tt02: :tt02:

Hey, I just heard on CNN that Kucinich wants a recount in New Hampshire. (If he can find the money to pay for it). He claims the Clinton's had the election fixed!!
Now....... what about that Flagrant Holding on Garrard's 4th down run?
Think we can get the NFL to put the Steelers in tomorrow nights game.....there's still time to pull it off. :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

CNY Is Steeler Country
01-14-2008, 07:13 PM
I didn't see the holding...but i'm going to youtube it right now and see what i can get. someone mentioned the play calling and the job bruce arians did in that game. sure, you cant blame losses on the play calling, but you can blame a 3-and-out that would have sealed the game. the steelers threw the ball better than brady did against the dolphins all throughout the second half and to that point led the 2nd half scoring 18-0. we averaged close to nothing per carry- so why call 3 straight running plays on that possession with 3:30 left? comon! the message i got from that was that they were content with a one point lead and giving the jags a chance to win. big disappointment for me.

Lord Stiller
01-14-2008, 07:14 PM
I didn't see the holding...but i'm going to youtube it right now and see what i can get. someone mentioned the play calling and the job bruce arians did in that game. sure, you cant blame losses on the play calling, but you can blame a 3-and-out that would have sealed the game. the steelers threw the ball better than brady did against the dolphins all throughout the second half and to that point led the 2nd half scoring 18-0. we averaged close to nothing per carry- so why call 3 straight running plays on that possession with 3:30 left? comon! the message i got from that was that they were content with a one point lead and giving the jags a chance to win. big disappointment for me.

I didnt see holding either

untill I watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB7jbqP-NPk

CNY Is Steeler Country
01-14-2008, 07:27 PM
yup, you're right.. definately.

Preacher
01-14-2008, 07:55 PM
Holding?

Yep. Both guys come in on the QB's left.

However... Too bad. we gotta play through bad calls... cuz I bet you there were calls that should have been called on us as well.

CNY Is Steeler Country
01-15-2008, 08:31 PM
absolutely! just to clear up what i said earlier, although i admit there was a hold on that play, lets not dwell on it. if they lost the game due to one missed holding call then they didnt deserve to move on anyways. plus, if we complain about this one, we're giving the seahawks a reason to complain about the refs in the super bowl.