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Dynasty
01-07-2008, 09:18 PM
According to SteelersSalaryCap.com, we have approximately $25.5 million left in cap room. It's going to take a good amount to resign Ben, and sign our draft picks. That should take approximately 7 million, give or take a few, leaving us with about 18 million, which, on its own, would allow us to sign our FAs and perhaps one or two mid-level FAs.

However, if we cut Marvel Smith, Brett Keisel, Cedric Wilson, and Sean Mahan, that would give us an extra 15 million or so in cap space, giving us about 34 million. Which would allow us to sign several top-line FAs. Adding on to that, there is the outside chance that Ward would restructure his contract, giving us an additional several million in space.

In the theoretical situation, with our $36 million, the Steelers could sign Starks to play LT, Trai Essex at RT, Paul Spicer, Lance Briggs, Ryan Lilja, and DJ Hackett. I realize we would not be able to sign all of those players, but with only 4 simple cuts, we would be able to upgrade our team significantly, and on both sides of the ball.

After signing Briggs, we would have him play outside and move Harrison inside as he is strong enough. Foote would be a backup.

With the pending draft and those FAs, we could end up with a team like this:

FAs and Draft picks in bold
Only players we will probably use are listed

Offense:
WRs: Ward, Holmes, Hackett, Washington, Reid
TEs: Miller, Tuman, Spaeth
RBs: Parker, Davenport, Russell
FB: Davis
Starting OL:
LT: Starks LG: Lilja C: Draft pick RG: Simmons RT: Essex

Defense:
DEs: Spicer, Smith
ILBs: Farrior, Harrison, Foote
OLBs: Briggs, Woodley, Timmons
CBs: Taylor, McFadden, Townsend, Gay, Draft pick
Safetys: Polamalu, Clark

Now please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks that would be a team to be reckoned with. The OL is significantly upgraded, with a younger replacement for Faneca, a better center, and we put the two tackles who have played the best as starters. If Essex plays poorly, he could be replaced with a draft pick. Also, we get a solid #3 receiver who, rather than being a liablity when one of our starters goes down, would be able to make positive contributions.

On the defense, we gain the ability to have a pass rush from the MLB position by moving Harrison inside. His sacking contribution on the outside is negated by the addition on Briggs. Adding Spicer at defensive end gives us more sacks and forced fumbles than we had with Keisel. Spicer is not a liabilty in run defense; more like a strength. There are no real changes in the secondary, other than hopefully getting Ryan Clark back and signing a draft pick to play CB in the Quarter Defense.

I realize that it is wishful thinking to sign Briggs, but he would not be a massive cap hit that would take up all the cap room, so it is a possibility.
He would probably be about an $ million hit (guesstimating).

All numbers are estimates.
In millions:
$36 - 7 Starks
29 - 9 Briggs
20 - 8 Lilja
12 - 1.5 Essex (He is RFA, so he can be cheap)
10.5 - 4 Spicer
6.5 - 3 Hackett

Leaving us with about 3 to 3.5 million in cap room to sign mid-season players, etc.

All these moves are possible, and every one of them would be a major benefit to the team. I know the FO likes to go conservative and only sign shitty players like Mahan in free agency, I think that this would be a spectacular crop of free agents who would help the team a ton. Even if we don't get Briggs, that is still a great group of talented players.

I'd love to know what you guys would think about the team doing that.

Mandy90
01-07-2008, 10:07 PM
There are two reasons the signing of Briggs would be ridiculous.

1. He is not a 3-4 OLB, if anything, he would play inside if he were to play in a 3-4. But even then he is more suited for a 4-3 Tampa style defense.

2. He would command waayyyy to much money for us.

I think he has also stated that he doesn't like playing in a 3-4

Dynasty
01-07-2008, 10:29 PM
yeah that was sort of the wish player, but if we switch to the tampa 2 in the near future he would be great for us in that role... we definately wouldnt sign him, i was just using ihim as an example

BlastFurnace
01-07-2008, 10:34 PM
As much as some don't like the overall play of Keisel and Mahan, the Steelers will not cut either one of them. IMO, Keisel is being misused. If they think they can make him into a roving DE/LB hybrid like Adalius Thomas, I don't think that is his best fit. Mahan will stay on the roster because he signed for a decent amount of cash, he is versatile in that he can play Guard and Center....even though that is now debatable...but atleast he has the experience.

I don't know what the cap hit to cut Marvell is, but I doubt he gets cut either because we need every warm body that can block "anyone" available. We don't know the extensive nature of Marvell's injury and it may re-occur, but I wouldn't cut him and I doubt the Steelers will either.

I still don't understand why so many people want to run Wilson out of town. Every single time I see him get the chance to play, he doesn't drop balls thrown to him, he comes up with some pretty key catches, and he is very versatile.

I do want to find a way to keep Starks because his versatility came in mighty handy this season. I bet the keep Essex as well.

What we need to remember about the Steelers is that they will spend their money to keep the players they want to keep from their own roster. Free Agent history with the Steelers will not change this year in that they will not break the bank to sign someone off someone else's roster for huge dollars. They will spend moderately to bring in someone who can play, but it won't be anyone like Lance Briggs.

With the money we have available, most will go to Ben, they will probably convince some veteran to restructure their deal to free up some additional money to keep some of their own players and hopefully some will go to sign some OL and DL help.

Preacher
01-07-2008, 11:12 PM
FAs and Draft picks in bold
Only players we will probably use are listed

Offense:
WRs: Ward, Holmes, Hackett, Washington, Reid
TEs: Miller, Tuman, Spaeth
RBs: Parker, Davenport, Russell
FB: Davis
Starting OL:
LT: Starks LG: Lilja C: Draft pick RG: Simmons RT: Essex

Defense:
DEs: Spicer, Smith
ILBs: Farrior, Harrison, Foote
OLBs: Briggs, Woodley, Timmons
CBs: Taylor, McFadden, Townsend, Gay, Draft pick
Safetys: Polamalu, Clark



Regardless of whether someone agrees or not, you gotta admit, that was a very good post. Great numbers research. Thanks! Now, here is how I would change that.


Offense:
WRs: Ward, Holmes, Round 2 pick, Washington, Reid, Round 3 small school, tall, fast project receiver. (4 if 3 goes to CB)
TEs: Miller, Tuman, Spaeth
RBs: Parker, Davenport, Russell
FB: Davis
Starting OL:
LT: Starks LG: Mahan C: Round 1 pick RG: Simmons RT: Essex / Round 3 pick to push Starks, Mahan, Simmons and Essex to really play well.

Defense:
DEs:Keisel (he played well), Smith
ILBs: Karlos Dansby, Timmons (moved from outside), Farrior
OLBs: Harrison, Woodley,
CBs: Taylor, McFadden, Townsend, Gay, Round 4 Draft pick (3 if a good one falls).
Safetys: Polamalu, Clark

FourThreeMafia
01-07-2008, 11:39 PM
SteelersSalaryCap.com is wrong. It hasnt been fixed in months, and doesnt have alot of the contracts and bonuses right.

Heading into next season, we have $18.6 million, and we dont yet know the ICA (Incentive Cap Adjustment) or any cuts we will be making.

And, BTW, how long have you been following the Steelers? No offense, but anyone who follows the Steelers year round knows they are never that active in FA, I DO think they will be more active this year, but no chance we bring in 4 player like them.

Hackett will be a number 1 or 2 somewhere. We will not give him as much money as other teams will.

Lilja, I wouldnt mind, but there are alot of teams in need of quality guards, and teams drastically overpaid mediocre guards like Derrick Dockery last year, and it will happen again.

Spicer is old. Steelers dont persue aging vets.

Briggs makes absolutely no sense. For one, we would never sign someone that high priced. Second, we dont know what LeBeau is doing or what defense we will be running. Even if we sign Briggs, which we wont, we still have alot of other needs until we can run a successful 4-3 D.

Here is my hope:
1) Cut Tyrone Carter, Cedric Wilson and Jerame Tuman. Get rid of that dead weight.
2) Sign Ben to 6 year extension
2a) Sign Max Starks to extension IF the price is right. He has lost some weight and is moving alot better, so he might be worth it. Not sure though.
3) Sign WR Bryant Johnson or Devery Henderson. Both are quality number 3 recievers.
4) If we dont sign Starks, actively persue Jordan Gross.
5) If we only sign one FA, go after Trufant or Samuel. I know they are big names, but Townsend is on his last legs, Taylor is good, but needs someone opposite of him

Preacher
01-07-2008, 11:49 PM
knows they are never that active in FA, I DO think they will be more active this year, but no chance we bring in 4 player like them.


Here is my hope:
1) Cut Tyrone Carter, Cedric Wilson and Jerame Tuman. Get rid of that dead weight.
2) Sign Ben to 6 year extension
2a) Sign Max Starks to extension IF the price is right. He has lost some weight and is moving alot better, so he might be worth it. Not sure though.
3) Sign WR Bryant Johnson or Devery Henderson. Both are quality number 3 recievers.
4) If we dont sign Starks, actively persue Jordan Gross.
5) If we only sign one FA, go after Trufant or Samuel. I know they are big names, but Townsend is on his last legs, Taylor is good, but needs someone opposite of him

Which is why I only have one FA... Karlos Dansby. He would be a great ILB... Him and Timmons could cover very well, and stop the inside run. Dansby is fast too... which is what we need. then we have Harrison and Woodley on the outside. it would just be a powerhouse LB core I believe.

Moving around the O line like I did (and you alluded to this fact as well about Starks) is playing with fire a bit, because we are not yet sure how Starks and Essex will play out over the entire season. So okay, bring in a second FA on the oline, and a 1st round pick.

I think that is well within the comfort range of the Rooneys. 2 FA's and building the rest through draft.

Dynasty
01-08-2008, 12:08 AM
FourThreeMafia, I have been a Steelers fan since I was a little kid. Although I appreciate your "insight" into my football knowledge, this post was not intended to be a "This is what the Steelers will do" it was more of a "If we utilized the cap well, we could greatly improve our team"

I admitted earlier that this was not what would happen; I know that the steelers are not active in free agency. maybe if you had read the whole thing you would have seen.

I know the FO likes to go conservative and only sign shitty players like Mahan in free agency, I think that this would be a spectacular crop of free agents who would help the team a ton

I didn't know that the salary cap site was wrong... even with that 7 million less, we could get all those guys other than briggs who we wouldnt have gotten anyway.

after writing the thing i realized briggs would not fit but i didnt want to get rid of that part of the post.

I realize that some of the players are not bad, but there were better options for possibly cheaper (Keisel/Spicer)

On steelers salary cap site it said m. smith's cap hit for next year was almost 7 million thats why i wanted to dump him, especially if he would be a backup.

Preacher, thanks for the backup, i wanted to put dansby in there but the Cards are supposedly going to franchise him so i didnt think the 2 first rounders would be worth it.

i like keisel too but i thought spicer had better stats and could probably go for cheaper while helpign the 4-3 transition

The Duke
01-08-2008, 12:23 AM
1) Cut Tyrone Carter, Cedric Wilson and Jerame Tuman. Get rid of that dead weight.


jerame tuman is no dead weight. he might be getting old, but him going down was a big reason the running game suffered.

I've seen a lot of the mock drafts you guys make, but none suggest at least in the second day grabbing a blocking tight end that can replace tuman. I don't think spaeth is as great of a blocker as tuman. a replacement may be needed.

then again....it all depends on how the offense evolves this year and Arians plans with it

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 12:32 AM
jerame tuman is no dead weight. he might be getting old, but him going down was a big reason the running game suffered.

I've seen a lot of the mock drafts you guys make, but none suggest at least in the second day grabbing a blocking tight end that can replace tuman. I don't think spaeth is as great of a blocker as tuman. a replacement may be needed.

then again....it all depends on how the offense evolves this year and Arians plans with it

Tuman's back is messed up. I doubt he will ever be the same.

I personally think the running game suffered more due to the fact that Dan Kredier went down and Sean Mahan being our center.

I like Tuman, but at this point, I think he is dead weight.

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 12:41 AM
FourThreeMafia, I have been a Steelers fan since I was a little kid. Although I appreciate your "insight" into my football knowledge, this post was not intended to be a "This is what the Steelers will do" it was more of a "If we utilized the cap well, we could greatly improve our team"

I admitted earlier that this was not what would happen; I know that the steelers are not active in free agency. maybe if you had read the whole thing you would have seen.



I didn't know that the salary cap site was wrong... even with that 7 million less, we could get all those guys other than briggs who we wouldnt have gotten anyway.

after writing the thing i realized briggs would not fit but i didnt want to get rid of that part of the post.

I realize that some of the players are not bad, but there were better options for possibly cheaper (Keisel/Spicer)

On steelers salary cap site it said m. smith's cap hit for next year was almost 7 million thats why i wanted to dump him, especially if he would be a backup.

Preacher, thanks for the backup, i wanted to put dansby in there but the Cards are supposedly going to franchise him so i didnt think the 2 first rounders would be worth it.

i like keisel too but i thought spicer had better stats and could probably go for cheaper while helpign the 4-3 transition

I didnt give any insight into your football or Steelers knowledge. Maybe if you had read what I said...

And, BTW, how long have you been following the Steelers?

...You wouldve realized it was a QUESTION, not a statement or "insight" There are alot of Sunday fans and young people that just dont know how the Steelers operate. It wasnt a knock on you at all, I was just curious. I dont post here regularly, so I apologize for not knowing everyone and who knows what.


I am personally all for getting Dansby or Suggs if we could, but it will never happen.

We will go after medium ranged FAs (like backups and potential starters) and scrubs as always. I dont always agree with that method, but I trust the Rooneys.

Preacher
01-08-2008, 02:19 AM
I didnt give any insight into your football or Steelers knowledge. Maybe if you had read what I said...



...You wouldve realized it was a QUESTION, not a statement or "insight" There are alot of Sunday fans and young people that just dont know how the Steelers operate. It wasnt a knock on you at all, I was just curious. I dont post here regularly, so I apologize for not knowing everyone and who knows what.


I am personally all for getting Dansby or Suggs if we could, but it will never happen.

We will go after medium ranged FAs (like backups and potential starters) and scrubs as always. I dont always agree with that method, but I trust the Rooneys.

Funny how we cheer with one side and groan with the other because of this issue. I am ALWAYS frustrated during FA time. However, I am always thankful for them come game time.

Rhee Rhee
01-08-2008, 02:24 AM
I am personally all for getting Dansby or Suggs if we could, but it will never happen.

We will go after medium ranged FAs (like backups and potential starters) and scrubs as always.

and thats what has plagued us with signings like mahan and wilson... (dead weight as someone put it earlier) the one signing i do think worked out was duce but that was only for one season... as he became ineffective after our 15-1 season with the emergence of willie parker

Galax Steeler
01-08-2008, 04:44 AM
Everyone is talking about tuman getting older just how long has he been in the league.

Crushzilla
01-08-2008, 05:53 AM
Everyone is talking about tuman getting older just how long has he been in the league.

Tuman was drafted in 1999 and will be 32 come opening day..

As far as replacing him with a blocking tight end in this year's draft, we already have.

Though he was a great asset in the red zone earlier in the season, Spaeth was brought in for his height and for his block prowess.

In college, he played for a Minnesota offense that ran the ball well and, like the Steelers, primarily.

I don't feel like he has been given enough of a chance to show his stuff as a blocking (and receiving) TE in the NFL, I'm sure the coaching staff shares that sentiment.

I would be surprised to see the Steelers take another TE in this draft. The F.O. is VERY aware that there were some big question marks around taking one in the third round last April and I'm sure they are more interested in working with the second-year, first day draft pick and shopping for depth elsewhere with valuable draft picks.

Crushzilla
01-08-2008, 06:06 AM
Also anyone that wants to cut Kiesel is just silly. He may be getting used wrong, I don't know I'm not a caoch, but he is still a very good player who had a off year. I think you keep him for sure, but at the worst you trade him, I'm sure someone would want him.

I can see us cutting him and the Patriots picking him up and him becoming an All-Pro :dang:

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 06:33 AM
I still don't understand why so many people want to run Wilson out of town. Every single time I see him get the chance to play, he doesn't drop balls thrown to him, he comes up with some pretty key catches, and he is very versatile.



Because in three years he has managed an average of only 27 catches per year (thats less than 2 catches per game)...387 yards per year (a little over 24 yards per game)....and LESS THAN 1 TOUCHDOWN per year

Crushzilla
01-08-2008, 06:47 AM
Because in three years he has managed an average of only 27 catches per year (thats less than 2 catches per game)...387 yards per year (a little over 24 yards per game)....and LESS THAN 1 TOUCHDOWN per year

Right. At the league's minimum salary, this would be great. Unfortunately, Wilson is payed considerably more than that.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 07:03 AM
Hackett will be a number 1 or 2 somewhere. We will not give him as much money as other teams will.

Here is my hope:
.
3) Sign WR Bryant Johnson or Devery Henderson. Both are quality number 3 recievers.


Bryant Johnson and Hackett are the same age...but Bryant has put up double the catches and yards that Hackett has. If we can't sign Hackett we sure as heck wont get Johnson!!!!

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 07:08 AM
Bryant Johnson and Hackett are the same age...but Bryant has put up double the catches and yards that Hackett has. If we can't sign Hackett we sure as heck wont get Johnson!!!!

Hackett is a much better reciever. Numbers lie. He's had injury issues which have hampered his production, which will ultimately cost him alot of money.

Johnson is a great number 3, but nothing special as a number 2.

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 07:13 AM
and thats what has plagued us with signings like mahan and wilson... (dead weight as someone put it earlier) the one signing i do think worked out was duce but that was only for one season... as he became ineffective after our 15-1 season with the emergence of willie parker

Wilson isnt as bad as people make him out to be. He has great hands actually. His problem is field awareness and he struggles in seperation.

Mahan was a terrible signing from the get go IMO, but I assumed they saw something in him. After watching him play this season, I cant for the life of me figure out what that is.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 07:47 AM
Hackett is a much better reciever. Numbers lie. He's had injury issues which have hampered his production, which will ultimately cost him alot of money.

Johnson is a great number 3, but nothing special as a number 2.

Johnson fills in on a regular basis as a VERY solid #2...so I would respectfully disagree.

Hackett is legit, but he is sharing catches with Nate Burleson & Deion Branch.

Obviously Johnson would have even more yardage if he wasnt behind two Elite recievers in Boldin and Fitzgerald.

Every single NFL team would take Johnson over Hackett...no contest.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 07:48 AM
Wilson isnt as bad as people make him out to be. He has great hands actually. His problem is field awareness and he struggles in seperation.

Mahan was a terrible signing from the get go IMO, but I assumed they saw something in him. After watching him play this season, I cant for the life of me figure out what that is.

Actually...Wilsons first year with us..he had more drops than he had catches...he has been a bust. But yea, I have lost hope in Mahan being anything but a wave player.

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 09:04 AM
Actually...Wilsons first year with us..he had more drops than he had catches...he has been a bust. But yea, I have lost hope in Mahan being anything but a wave player.

Wilson had 26 catches his first year with the Steelers, and I can guarantee he didnt have more drops than catches. He was the number 3 reciever for us that year, (number 4 if you count Heath Miller) and he probably wasnt even targeted more than 50 times that entire season. and Im willing to bet at least 10-15 of those targets were OFF TARGET. Id say at most, he dropped 12 balls, and I dont even see that. So, I dont know where you got that at, but its bogus. Wilson hasnt been a star, but he hasnt been a bust An FA bust (like Sean Mahan) is a player you sign to come in and make a big impact, but doesnt. Wilson was NEVER expected to make a big impact. He was brought in to be a number 3. Wilsons issues have never been his hands, its his inablilty to seperate and find holes and coverage, and he seems to get disoriented easily.

Wilson has ZERO drops this season. He has been targets 30 times and has caught 17.

Last year, if I remember correctly, he dropped 4 or 5 passes, and Ward had 7 or 8 drops.

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 09:13 AM
Johnson fills in on a regular basis as a VERY solid #2...so I would respectfully disagree.

Hackett is legit, but he is sharing catches with Nate Burleson & Deion Branch.

Obviously Johnson would have even more yardage if he wasnt behind two Elite recievers in Boldin and Fitzgerald.

Every single NFL team would take Johnson over Hackett...no contest.

It helps having Fitz or Boldin playing next to you.

Im not saying Johnson isnt good or he CANT be a good number 2, but I think he is much better as the number 3, but he will get his chance somehwere to be a number 2 probably, like Carolina.

And no, it isnt 'no contest'.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 10:14 AM
Wilson had 26 catches his first year with the Steelers, and I can guarantee he didnt have more drops than catches. He was the number 3 reciever for us that year, (number 4 if you count Heath Miller) and he probably wasnt even targeted more than 50 times that entire season. and Im willing to bet at least 10-15 of those targets were OFF TARGET. Id say at most, he dropped 12 balls, and I dont even see that. So, I dont know where you got that at, but its bogus. Wilson hasnt been a star, but he hasnt been a bust An FA bust (like Sean Mahan) is a player you sign to come in and make a big impact, but doesnt. Wilson was NEVER expected to make a big impact. He was brought in to be a number 3. Wilsons issues have never been his hands, its his inablilty to seperate and find holes and coverage, and he seems to get disoriented easily.

Wilson has ZERO drops this season. He has been targets 30 times and has caught 17.

Last year, if I remember correctly, he dropped 4 or 5 passes, and Ward had 7 or 8 drops.


Okay...let me talk plain english since sarcasm didnt work....Wilson has been unproductive by ANYONES standards...he DOES have a problem with drops..in fact...an article was written last year about Wilson and Washingtons inability to hold on to the ball....Wilson dropped a pass last game...so we dont have to look very far back to disprove the "whole season without a drop" remark. I dont think when we signed Wilson it was with the understanding that he would catch less than two passes a game..and that he would only give us two regular season TD's in three years.
.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 10:44 AM
It helps having Fitz or Boldin playing next to you.

Im not saying Johnson isnt good or he CANT be a good number 2, but I think he is much better as the number 3, but he will get his chance somehwere to be a number 2 probably, like Carolina.

And no, it isnt 'no contest'.


How does having a sure handed Elite #1 and #2 in front of you...help....you to get more catches? Wouldnt that mean that the QB would throw to them more??? (To be truthful..Johnson has two #1 receivers in front of him)

I would thing that if you are behind less than elite starters..you should get more playing time and therefore more catches.

But as I said originally...Hackett is a legit WR and I would love to have him...he just isnt in Bryant Johnsons category.

I know you said..Numbers can be deceiving (which must be why you think Wilson is a good WR)...but productivity is the bottom line and Johnson is twice as productive.

Johnson: ...210 career catches 2,675 career yards
Hackett: .....105 career catches 1,394 career yards
(both are 26 years old)
I would rather Johnson "deceive" our opponants with that type of production...than settle for half of that with the "reality" of Hackett's abilities.

BlastFurnace
01-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Because in three years he has managed an average of only 27 catches per year (thats less than 2 catches per game)...387 yards per year (a little over 24 yards per game)....and LESS THAN 1 TOUCHDOWN per year

You know as well as I do that he hardly ever gets the ball thrown to him, but when he does, he is productive. You can't catch it when it's not thrown to you.

Wilson is much better than any #4 receiver we have had in Pittsburgh in quite some time. He's not as bad as people think.

Rotorhead
01-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Somehow, with the way everyone is so enamored with Washington, and having Ward, Santo and Miller, I dont see us going into FA to get a receiver . . . there are far more glaring needs. I can see us drafting a late round tall prospect to groom into a receiver. If we dabble in FA, it will be for OL, most likely a Center, but I have no idea who is even available. I agree with whoever said our run game dropped off because of kreider, I truly believe that. Injuries hurt out Def this year, so I can see us drafting for depth there as well as OL in the first couple rounds. It is going to be a slow off season for us like usual unless Lebeau leaves.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 11:04 AM
You know as well as I do that he hardly ever gets the ball thrown to him, but when he does, he is productive. You can't catch it when it's not thrown to you.

Wilson is much better than any #4 receiver we have had in Pittsburgh in quite some time. He's not as bad as people think.

You actually prove my point...he has been regulated to #4 on our depth chart....but he was signed to be a #2 and sadley getting paid like one.
So yea...he is the bet #2 reciever we have ever had at the #4 slot.

BlastFurnace
01-08-2008, 11:27 AM
You actually prove my point...he has been regulated to #4 on our depth chart....but he was signed to be a #2 and sadley getting paid like one.
So yea...he is the bet #2 reciever we have ever had at the #4 slot.

4 Years for $8 million dollars is hardly a big enough salary hit to cut a guy as a #4 receiver. That is hardly #2 receiver money.

The # 2 receiver may have been the original intent, but it didn't work out that way. Why cut the guy if he is still productive when given the chance? He's not that big of a salary hit.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 11:32 AM
4 Years for $8 million dollars is hardly a big enough salary hit to cut a guy as a #4 receiver. That is hardly #2 receiver money.

The # 2 receiver may have been the original intent, but it didn't work out that way. Why cut the guy if he is still productive when given the chance? He's not that big of a salary hit.

Because we can put that money towards someone who is capable of catching more than 2 catches a game...and will give us more than 0.7 TD's a year?...and lets not forget to add the 2 milion in bonus he recieved

RoethlisBURGHer
01-08-2008, 11:40 AM
Why the hella re people so high in Essex? Did you not watch him Saturday night? Hre just stood their and let the defense run past him.

jjpro11
01-08-2008, 12:18 PM
Why the hella re people so high in Essex? Did you not watch him Saturday night? Hre just stood their and let the defense run past him.

we need a real, franchise LT. he's good for depth though.

BlastFurnace
01-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Because we can put that money towards someone who is capable of catching more than 2 catches a game...and will give us more than 0.7 TD's a year?...and lets not forget to add the 2 milion in bonus he recieved

He is capable. He just doesn't get the opportunity.

verks36
01-08-2008, 12:34 PM
OK let me spit some truth....

OK first off Hackett and Johnson are bascially on the same level. This was supposed to be Hacketts's breakout year but he got injured the first game so he is really unproven. Johnson plays behind 2 great WRs and when filling in for Boldin this year he had some games where he show some signs of potential.
Who ever said DJ Hackett is in a different league the bryant johnson you are straight up wrong

Next really are WR core is not the problem. I dont think we need to tamper with it at all and maybe spend a late pick on a WR who is raw with talent and we can develop.

Here is what i think should happen
-First things first resign Ben
-Sign a top notch corner in FA preferably Trufant
- Focus on the draft on both Oline and D line and Spend the #1 pick on O line

With taylor and Trufant we would have 2 top notch corners and both are young. We would be able to build are defense around theses players. We could do alot more blitzing knowing we are going to have solid coverage on the outsides
Also with the way the patriots are playing and spreading the field out with WRs in might be a trend that catches on.

Some points
- are linebacking core looks fine IMO.
- are running game fell because of Bruce Arians
- Cedrick is nothing special but still not worth cutting

-Some people arent so high on Washington but I like him I think he is more than capable to be our #3 WR

-Essex played better than what I was expecting against the Jags

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 01:36 PM
OK let me spit some truth....

OK first off Hackett and Johnson are bascially on the same level. This was supposed to be Hacketts's breakout year but he got injured the first game so he is really unproven. Johnson plays behind 2 great WRs and when filling in for Boldin this year he had some games where he show some signs of potential.
Who ever said DJ Hackett is in a different league the bryant johnson you are straight up wrong

My original point was that I LIKE Hackett and would love to have him on my team but that Johnson is better based on production...I made that point because someone thought that we couldnt afford Hackett but might be able to sign Johnson.
......IF WE CANT AFFORD HACKETT, WE CANT AFFORD JOHNSON. I personally (like I said) would love to have either of them

I dont think we need to tamper with it at all and maybe spend a late pick on a WR who is raw with talent and we can develop.
.....uh.......Dallas Baker?


- are linebacking core looks fine IMO.
Really....who would you have backup the aging Farrior if he went down?...and since he is getting older...WHEN would you have us draft a LBer?

- are running game fell because of Bruce Arians
Our running game was much more affected by our line play...then it was by our signal calling.

- Cedrick is nothing special but still not worth cutting
Cedrick is a black and gold boil that needs to be lanced in free agency.

-Some people arent so high on Washington but I like him I think he is more than capable to be our #3 WR
-Essex played better than what I was expecting against the Jags
I agree with both of these statements...Essex was rusty...but a pleasant surprise...Washington can be a Legit #3...Which makes Wilson that much more expendable.

mopit55
01-08-2008, 01:55 PM
to sign free agent like hackett or b-johnson is not a priority.steelers must sign max starks and faneca if possible or give an extention for big ben.they can take a receiver at the draft but washington and wilson are not so bad.an another problem is the d-line corps. a young player will be good to help hampton,keisel and smith

Edman
01-08-2008, 01:57 PM
-Quarterback is solid.
-Running Back is somewhat solid. I hope Gary Russell pans out.
-Fullback is not a need, but can be improved. We need a pounder that can catch the ball and block. Carey Davis is adequate, not great.
-Wide Recievers are not a need, but can be improved. Wilson needs to be cut.
-Tight Ends are solid
-Offensive Line: I think we ALL know the story here.

Defense:

-Defensive Line: Need better depth.
-Linebackers: Woodley will be a stud, Harrison is a stud, Farrior is old, and Foote reverted beck to mediocrity. Move Timmons to ILB. Go after Dansby in FA.
-Secondary: Solid. Need someone opposite Ike Taylor, though. Townsend won't be around forever.

mopit55
01-08-2008, 02:05 PM
i'm agree with you but in defense dansby is not a priority and what he wants of money?maybe in outside woodley and haggans in inside harrison and timmons with farrior.secondary sign trufant or samuel if they are free will be a good duo with taylor.we must draft a o-tackle and d-tackle

verks36
01-08-2008, 02:15 PM
My original point was that I LIKE Hackett and would love to have him on my team but that Johnson is better based on production...I made that point because someone thought that we couldnt afford Hackett but might be able to sign Johnson.
......IF WE CANT AFFORD HACKETT, WE CANT AFFORD JOHNSON. I personally (like I said) would love to have either of them

.
.....uh.......Dallas Baker?



Really....who would you have backup the aging Farrior if he went down?...and since he is getting older...WHEN would you have us draft a LBer?


Our running game was much more affected by our line play...then it was by our signal calling.


Cedrick is a black and gold boil that needs to be lanced in free agency.


I agree with both of these statements...Essex was rusty...but a pleasant surprise...Washington can be a Legit #3...Which makes Wilson that much more expendable.

Lets get it clear were arent going to sign either of the two. I wasnt responding to you spefically i was responding to the claim that "DJ Hackett and Braynt Johnson werent on the same level" which it is obvious that they are

WHEN would you have us draft a LBer

Well considering we spent the 1rst and 2nd round picks of the draft last year on linebackers. I think we can manage not spending a high pick on a LB this year who wont crack the starting lineup because our starters at LB are to good for some rookie to take their spot.
If farrior were to get hurt then why spending draft pick on a linebacker when we have Timmons itching to get on the field. I know he is a OLB but he could make the switch. Also we have bigger need to fill then worry about who is going to replace farrior he had a great season this year.

I see why everybody hates Cedrick. I dont like him either but i feel like he is a capable #4 WR and I do not think it is worth the cap penalty of cutting him i rather just keep him until his contract is up.

We need to FOCUS ON O-LINE AND D-LINE and it would be great if we signed a top notch corner but i doubt that will happen

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 02:32 PM
Lets get it clear were arent going to sign either of the two. I wasnt responding to you spefically i was responding to the claim that "DJ Hackett and Braynt Johnson werent on the same level" which it is obvious that they are



Well considering we spent the 1rst and 2nd round picks of the draft last year on linebackers. I think we can manage not spending a high pick on a LB this year who wont crack the starting lineup because our starters at LB are to good for some rookie to take their spot.
If farrior were to get hurt then why spending draft pick on a linebacker when we have Timmons itching to get on the field. I know he is a OLB but he could make the switch. Also we have bigger need to fill then worry about who is going to replace farrior he had a great season this year.

I see why everybody hates Cedrick. I dont like him either but i feel like he is a capable #4 WR and I do not think it is worth the cap penalty of cutting him i rather just keep him until his contract is up.

We need to FOCUS ON O-LINE AND D-LINE and it would be great if we signed a top notch corner but i doubt that will happen

I actually agree with you about several things.

1) I think that we will NOT sign either of thos WR but may be able to pick up Justin Gage ..which is an upgrade from Wilson
2) I think we can move Timmons to inside, but I still would like to see us pick up an ILB sometime in the near future in the draft or FA
3) O-Line is the priorioty and I suspect we will address Tackel & Guard in the first three rounds.
4) Based on value I can see us getting a CB in the second round.
5) We can get value at Center and DE in the 4th and 5th.


This is actually the direction I would like to see...(from the draft forum)


Round 1) OT Michael Oher-Ole Miss
Round 2) CB Dwight Lowery-San Jose State
Round 3) OG Drew Radovich-USC
Round 4) DE Kendall Langford-Hampton
Round 5) C Doug Legursky- Marshall
Round 6) (I believe this is the pick we gave up fro Rossum)
Round 7) S Jamie Silva-Boston College

FA pickups:
LB Carlos Dansby
OT Travelle Wharton
WR Justin Gage

verks36
01-08-2008, 02:49 PM
I actually agree with you about several things.

1) I think that we will NOT sign either of thos WR but may be able to pick up Justin Gage ..which is an upgrade from Wilson
2) I think we can move Timmons to inside, but I still would like to see us pick up an ILB sometime in the near future in the draft or FA
3) O-Line is the priorioty and I suspect we will address Tackel & Guard in the first three rounds.
4) Based on value I can see us getting a CB in the second round.
5) We can get value at Center and DE in the 4th and 5th.

Ya i agree are views are pretty simalar

1. It would not shock me if the steelers do sign a low priced free agent WR in the offseason but just dont excpect something big as I have heard on this forum Larry Fitzgerald DJ hackett Bryant Johnson etc...

2. Ya kind of like with what we did with Clint Kwieldt or how ever you spell his name. If we can get one guy it helps backup two postions but again dont except no one special

3. O-line heavy draft. I see draft them early and often if we draft a bunch at least one should pan out :sofunny:

4.The thing i dont agree with you is drafting a corner in the draft. Who know how many picks we have wasted on a corner it is crazy.

2nd Bryant McFadden
2nd Ricardo Colclough
4th Ike Taylor
7th LaVar Glover
3rd Hank Poteat
2nd scott shields
4th Deshea Townsend
5thJason Simmons
1rst Chad Scott
6th Daryl Porter

THIS IS ALL WITHIN 10 years LOOK HOW MANY DBs WE have drafted
the steelers are so bad at drafting DBs we have wasted so many draft picks on lousy DBs. I say it is about time we go and grab one off of free agency who is already proven and we wont have to waste time and develop who can make and impact his 1rst season on the team

side note- I am not saying all these guys were a waste I am just saying we have spent alot of draft picks on DBs and havnt got much in return

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-08-2008, 03:02 PM
I had mentioned in that same thread that we could easily swap WR/CB and grab a good WR in the second round and sign a CB in free agency.

I do think that there is good CB value in the 2nd....but you touch upon the problem of our not having a very track reecord with evaluating that talent.

mopit55
01-08-2008, 04:20 PM
FOR THE DRAFT:ROUND 1 JEFF OTAH.2 LAWRENCE JACKSON 3 CHEVIS JACKSON 4 DRE MOORE 5 ALBERT YOUNG ...

Dino 6 Rings
01-08-2008, 05:41 PM
Let me just say, this could be one of my all time favorite threads. Great research and great battles of opinions with all being solidly researched.

I think O line will be where we go first in the draft. Otah from Pitt is very high on our board.

Mike Tomlin started his career in the Defensive Backfield and he will make a change there. I think he will try and get a corner in Free Agency, a shut down guy if possible. Whoever it is, he will attempt to upgrade. McFadden makes too many mistakes, and I like the guy, he has made some huge plays for us, but he also lets me down sometimes. I do like the ball skills of Gay from Louisville, he is only a rookie but he shows promise. We may be able to trade of Ike Taylor if people are actually willing to part with him. Could that be Rod Woodson like mistake...its possible, but we might actually get fantastic value from a guy like Ike, who we all know, won't ever pick off a ball thrown by Ben, cause he can't catch.

I think we could use another Running Back. A guy like Ray Rice from Rutgers would be so good in our system. What I don't want is a "jerome clone" who isn't really a clone. We need someone that if Willie pulls a hammie in week 1, we can put in there and we can continue to have one of the most dominating running attacks in the NFL. We need a 2nd back with longevity that can carry the load if required.

Receivers, I want a Ward Clone. Give me a guy that will make a 3rd and 8 catch while Holmes and Ward are covered. Is that guy wilson or washington? And I'm not talking TE, I want a Legit #3 guy. Good offenses have #1, #2, Steelers, Bengals, Great ones have a good #1, #2, and #3, Pats, Colts. I want a #3.

d2609j
01-08-2008, 06:42 PM
As far as our WR situation is concerned, I dont think we have many other options than to tender Washington, eliminate Wilson, and build our future through the draft. I just dont see us attracting a quality receiver through FA. Not with our run style offense, and with ward and holmes being our 1 and 2 receivers. It would be Cedrick Wilson all over again. Not many guys are going to sign with an offense that they may get 25 balls thrown to them.

Steeldude
01-08-2008, 06:55 PM
According to SteelersSalaryCap.com, we have approximately $25.5 million left in cap room. It's going to take a good amount to resign Ben, and sign our draft picks. That should take approximately 7 million, give or take a few, leaving us with about 18 million, which, on its own, would allow us to sign our FAs and perhaps one or two mid-level FAs.

However, if we cut Marvel Smith, Brett Keisel, Cedric Wilson, and Sean Mahan, that would give us an extra 15 million or so in cap space, giving us about 34 million. Which would allow us to sign several top-line FAs. Adding on to that, there is the outside chance that Ward would restructure his contract, giving us an additional several million in space.

cutting all them leaves the steelers with $4,318,000 of dead cap money. the steelers can't cut simmons without it costing them at least $2,195,500 against the cap.

signing BR to a new contract and the draft picks is going to take more than 7$ mil. BR's cap hit for 2008 is $5,576,500. i don't see it shrinking. unless they structure it with a big signing bonus to ease the the 2008 cap.

wilson will be cut for sure. his salary cap of $2,585,000 is too much for a backup WR with little impact. it would be good if ward restructured his contract. his cap hit is $7,450,000. that's the largest cap hit on the team.

i too want keisel cut. that will free up $3.25 mil and only cost us 822,500 against the cap. keisel doesn't bring anything special to the defense. he is just too small for the 3-4.

Jman
01-08-2008, 07:06 PM
Hello everyone. I am anxiously awaiting to see what the Steelers do in the offseason. We need to lock up Ben, and figure out the offensive line. We have quality players at almost all of the other positions. Depth is an issue at defensive line, defensive secondary, and offensive line.

Dynasty
01-08-2008, 07:59 PM
cutting all them leaves the steelers with $4,318,000 of dead cap money. the steelers can't cut simmons without it costing them at least $2,195,500 against the cap.

signing BR to a new contract and the draft picks is going to take more than 7$ mil. BR's cap hit for 2008 is $5,576,500. i don't see it shrinking. unless they structure it with a big signing bonus to ease the the 2008 cap.

wilson will be cut for sure. his salary cap of $2,585,000 is too much for a backup WR with little impact. it would be good if ward restructured his contract. his cap hit is $7,450,000. that's the largest cap hit on the team.

i too want keisel cut. that will free up $3.25 mil and only cost us 822,500 against the cap. keisel doesn't bring anything special to the defense. he is just too small for the 3-4.


Oh i think you misinterpreted that... I meant that 7 m would be additional... like ben's 6m cap hit + part of the extra 7 m.

Steeldude
01-08-2008, 08:35 PM
Oh i think you misinterpreted that... I meant that 7 m would be additional... like ben's 6m cap hit + part of the extra 7 m.

gotcha:smile:

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 10:59 PM
Okay...let me talk plain english since sarcasm didnt work....Wilson has been unproductive by ANYONES standards...he DOES have a problem with drops..in fact...an article was written last year about Wilson and Washingtons inability to hold on to the ball....Wilson dropped a pass last game...so we dont have to look very far back to disprove the "whole season without a drop" remark. I dont think when we signed Wilson it was with the understanding that he would catch less than two passes a game..and that he would only give us two regular season TD's in three years.
.

Oh yeah, spin it around like I didnt pick up on the sarcasm. It sure didnt sound like you were being sarcastic, it sounded like you were making stuff up.

And please dont bold everything. I know how to read just fine.

If Wilson has problems with his hands, then I guess Ward does too since he drops just as many, if not more. Hines had 10 dropped passes last year, and had 5 this year. Given, he is targeted much more than Wilson, but 10 dropped passes is pretty bad.

Wilson didnt drop a single ball in the regular season. I dont recall if he dropped one last game or not.

And he isnt Bens favorite target. I never said he was anything special. I just said his biggest problem isnt his hands. Drops arent always due to bad hands.

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 11:16 PM
How does having a sure handed Elite #1 and #2 in front of you...help....you to get more catches? Wouldnt that mean that the QB would throw to them more??? (To be truthful..Johnson has two #1 receivers in front of him)

I would thing that if you are behind less than elite starters..you should get more playing time and therefore more catches.

But as I said originally...Hackett is a legit WR and I would love to have him...he just isnt in Bryant Johnsons category.

I know you said..Numbers can be deceiving (which must be why you think Wilson is a good WR)...but productivity is the bottom line and Johnson is twice as productive.

Johnson: ...210 career catches 2,675 career yards
Hackett: .....105 career catches 1,394 career yards
(both are 26 years old)
I would rather Johnson "deceive" our opponants with that type of production...than settle for half of that with the "reality" of Hackett's abilities.

Yes, Johnson gets less targets because he plays with Boldin and Fitz, but when he is filling in at number 2, playing with one of them makes him an easy target because teams will focus on stopping Fitz or Boldin, giving Johnson alot of oppurtunities.

As a number 3, he is even more dangerous because the defense has to cover 2 of the best recievers in the league, freeing him up.

And yes, numbers can be very decieving, because Sunday fans look at stats and they think just because a player has alot of tackles or receptions, he is better than a player with less tackles or receptions or whatever.

Thats not how it works.

Wilson is a suitable number 3 reciever. Nothing special, but not as bad as you make him out to be.

If you like Johnson more than Hackett, thats fine, but those stats do nothing for your argument. 2 different systems and Hackett has injury issues, and that is the reason why a) BJs numbers are so much better, and b) teams would be weary of going after him instead of Johnson.

Its all about oppurtunities. You are pretty much saying that Johnson is better because he gets more oppurtunities that Hackett. If both end up as number 2's in simalar offensive systems, and Hackett stays healthy, I guarantee Hackett will be better than Johnson.

verks36
01-08-2008, 11:24 PM
Yes, Johnson gets less targets because he plays with Boldin and Fitz, but when he is filling in at number 2, playing with one of them makes him an easy target because teams will focus on stopping Fitz or Boldin, giving Johnson alot of oppurtunities.

As a number 3, he is even more dangerous because the defense has to cover 2 of the best recievers in the league, freeing him up.

And yes, numbers can be very decieving, because Sunday fans look at stats and they think just because a player has alot of tackles or receptions, he is better than a player with less tackles or receptions or whatever.

Thats not how it works.

Wilson is a suitable number 3 reciever. Nothing special, but not as bad as you make him out to be.

If you like Johnson more than Hackett, thats fine, but those stats do nothing for your argument. 2 different systems and Hackett has injury issues, and that is the reason why a) BJs numbers are so much better, and b) teams would be weary of going after him instead of Johnson.

Its all about oppurtunities. You are pretty much saying that Johnson is better because he gets more oppurtunities that Hackett. If both end up as number 2's in simalar offensive systems, and Hackett stays healthy, I guarantee Hackett will be better than Johnson.

also you have to factor in the systems that Johnson and Hackett are in.

If Hackett goes to a team that doesn't focus on the pass game your guarantee could be wrong.

Hackett is good but you are kinda exaggerating him

FourThreeMafia
01-08-2008, 11:28 PM
also you have to factor in the systems that Johnson and Hackett are in.

If Hackett goes to a team that doesn't focus on the pass game your guarantee could be wrong.

Hackett is good but you are kinda exaggerating him

If you read all of it, you would see I stated about offensive systems.

And you could say the same thing about Johnson if he goes to a team that focuses on the run.

Im not exaggerating him at all. I just said I think he is better than Johnson. This isnt based off of stats, this is based off of actually watching both of them play.

Godfather
01-08-2008, 11:53 PM
3) Sign WR Bryant Johnson or Devery Henderson. Both are quality number 3 recievers.


The downside to Devery is he drops too many balls. The upside would be he's a great home run threat, which we need to add to our passing attack. He could probably be picked up for a low price.

FourThreeMafia
01-09-2008, 12:46 AM
The downside to Devery is he drops too many balls. The upside would be he's a great home run threat, which we need to add to our passing attack. He could probably be picked up for a low price.

Honestly, that is the only reason I want Henderson, because if we could get another speed reciever on the outside, and put Hines in the slot, along with Heath Miller, that would be seriously tough to defend.

Henderson has terrible hands actually. He dropped 10 balls this year and was only targeted 42 times. I didnt realize his hands were so bad, so I take back wanting him. Id rather have a eciever that runs a 4.6 and catches everything than a reciever that runs a 4.3 and drops every other ball.

Elvis
01-10-2008, 06:48 AM
These Salary Cap Numbers Come From Peter King of
Sports Illustrated and was UPDATED on December 10, 2007
Stat of the Week

So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along with how many players each team has under contract:
1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 Million
2. San Diego 44 $33.03
3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69
4. Buffalo 49 $32.05
5. Saints 39 $31.69
6. Bengals 48 $31.45
7. 49ers 48 $30.91
8. Browns 42 $30.31
9. Cardinals 34 $30.27
10. Jets 45 $27.72
11. Raiders 40 $25.98
12. Tampa Bay 48 $25.90
13. Miami 48 $25.56
14. NY Giants 49 $24.47
15. Detroit 42 $23.50
16. Houston 43 $22.91
17. Dallas 40 $20.61
18. Kansas City 44 $20.27
19. Chicago 52 $19.80
20. STEELERS 43 $18.61
21. Green Bay 48 $18.37
22. Philadelphia 49 $17.17
23. Denver 49 $16.77
24. Minnesota 49 $14.88
25. New England 41 $10.93
26. St. Louis 45 $9.61
27. Seattle 44 $9.55
28. Indianapolis 48 $8.49
29. Carolina 35 $5.79
30. Falcons 52 $5.79
31. Ravens 42 $5.0
32. REDSKINS 45 -$20.72
And yes, you read it right. The Washington Redskins are $20 million over the projected '08 cap, a number that will be reduced once the 'Skins convert some bonuses assigned to the '08 cap (including a hefty one paid to tight end Chris Cooley) to signing bonuses, which can be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

FourThreeMafia
01-10-2008, 09:01 AM
That salary cap still isnt really correct. By March we will know for sure what type of money we are looking at, because the ICA will be factored in, along with dead money.

And the Redskins are just retarded. They do this every year. They are always well over the cap, but they move money around and sign another FA or 2. It sounds smart, but they always overpay average talent, and thats why they arent all that successful. They overpaid for Randel El, Brandon Lloyd and Pete Kendall.

I'll laugh if Cowher goes there. I dont think him and Snyder would get along.

The Duke
01-10-2008, 11:23 AM
redskins are a joke. 20 million over the cap?!! no wonder Gibbs left. I mean, it at least must have been one of the reasons

lilyoder6
01-10-2008, 11:29 AM
cowher said he didn't want to coach again until 09... and i heard this morning that if pete carroll does leave usc he would most likely take the job at wash. instead of atl.. b/c he wants to win... in the past i always wondered how wash always got the big names on there roster and always under cap by the start of the season... it's a mystery how they do it...

Tackdaddy
01-10-2008, 01:52 PM
The only way i can the Steelers solving any problems is to take a chance at some free agents. They have very little depth for someone to step up and be a good starter. I don't like the way things are starting to look, if the Steelers do things like they have always done they will have major problems next season. This is one year that building from within is not a viable option.

fansince'76
01-10-2008, 01:55 PM
The only way i can the Steelers solving any problems is to take a chance at some free agents. They have very little depth for someone to step up and be a good starter. I don't like the way things are starting to look, if the Steelers do things like they have always done they will have major problems next season. This is one year that building from within is not a viable option.

Considering that they'll probably be breaking the bank for an extension for Ben, how will this be accomplished without putting themselves in salary cap hell down the road? Good FAs are quite pricey.

Preacher
01-10-2008, 02:06 PM
Considering that they'll probably be breaking the bank for an extension for Ben, how will this be accomplished without putting themselves in salary cap hell down the road? Good FAs are quite pricey.

We have what, 18 mill under the cap now... maybe 20 or so if we cut or let some players go. However, we then come back with having to put 10 players on the team. Don't forget Ben's big cap numbers... maybe a 4 or 5 mill hit this year alone when he re-signs. Then a first round pick will eat up another couple from that cap. That leaves 13 mil for 9 other players. about what, 1.3 mil per player?

Unless I see us doing something strange... cutting a high salary contract, or Ward restructuring, I just don't see us going out on the FA market... and that is a shame, because I want Karlos Dansby.

FourThreeMafia
01-10-2008, 02:10 PM
cowher said he didn't want to coach again until 09... and i heard this morning that if pete carroll does leave usc he would most likely take the job at wash. instead of atl.. b/c he wants to win... in the past i always wondered how wash always got the big names on there roster and always under cap by the start of the season... it's a mystery how they do it...

I know what Cowher said, but every man has a price, and Dan Snyder has the money to pay that price. Cowher is too much like Schottenheimer, and Snyder and MartyBall didnt get along, so I dont see it happening anyway.

I think Carroll would be stupid to leave USC. He's got a sweet gig out there.

And even if the Redskins do sign alot of FAs, what has it gotten them in the last 15 years? Two 10 win seasons and 4 trips to the playoffs including this year, In the meantime, the Steelers have been one of the winningest franchises, with 11 trips to the playoffs and our 5th SB title.

Ill take the Steelers front office over the Redskins any day.

FourThreeMafia
01-10-2008, 02:20 PM
We have what, 18 mill under the cap now... maybe 20 or so if we cut or let some players go. However, we then come back with having to put 10 players on the team. Don't forget Ben's big cap numbers... maybe a 4 or 5 mill hit this year alone when he re-signs. Then a first round pick will eat up another couple from that cap. That leaves 13 mil for 9 other players. about what, 1.3 mil per player?

Unless I see us doing something strange... cutting a high salary contract, or Ward restructuring, I just don't see us going out on the FA market... and that is a shame, because I want Karlos Dansby.

Karlos Dansby will be franchised. I cant see the Cardinals letting arguably their best defensive player go. If he does leave, some other team will go all out for him.

People need to realize a few things though.

Ben's contract is not going to kill us. We will be fine. Some people seem to think signing him is going to set us back.

The Steelers wont be signing any big FA. Not because they dont have the money, just because thats not what they do. Still, they better do a better job of picking up low-medium grade FAs than they did with Mahan.

Marvel Smith and James Farrior will probably be gone after next season. They are both at the end of their contracts and will be on the wrong side of 30. Those are 2 big contracts gone right there.

After 2009, Ward will probably be gone or will have to take a big paycut. I personally think Ward will retire after the 2009 season. Thats another big contract.

After that, as of right now, after 2009, the biggest cotnracts will be Ben, Troy and Ike Taylor. By then, we will have to be thinking about resigning Holmes, Miller and Woodley .

I do think we will have to dip in FA a little, but no big names. BUT, the Steelers better do a better job of choosing who they bring in.

lilyoder6
01-10-2008, 02:45 PM
i think we do need to resign starks.. he is only 25 and he showed he can play.. but we do need to find players that will play special teams..

Elvis
01-11-2008, 06:34 AM
:coffee:
I definitely think that the Steelers should consider signing Max Starks back or maybe even franchising him.....:jawdrop:
He has shown the last 2 or 3 games that he played in that he can play. Didnt We Just Win A Super Bowl 3 Years Ago With Him at Right Tackle?..

FourThreeMafia
01-11-2008, 08:28 AM
:coffee:
I definitely think that the Steelers should consider signing Max Starks back or maybe even franchising him.....:jawdrop:
He has shown the last 2 or 3 games that he played in that he can play. Didnt We Just Win A Super Bowl 3 Years Ago With Him at Right Tackle?..

Did you seriously just say Franchise Max Starks?

I'm up for signing him for the right price, but you dont franchise a guy that lost his job to 2nd year player that isnt even supposed to be playing tackle. Franchise means paying a player the average of the top 5 players in the league. For OLineman, thats up around $8 mil. Do you really want to pay Max Starks $8 mil?

Starks hasnt really shown much, which is why I dont understand why people are screaming to sign him. He handled Jason Taylor against Miami, but the field helped alot. He played alright against the Rams too, but they were without Leonard Little.

Starks is looking better because he lost weight and his movement has improved. Some credit goes to Larry Zierlein for helping him in that department.

Still, signing Starks is still a risk, since he hasnt proven he is much better than he was before.

And yes, we did win a SB with him at RT. That was in a power run offense. This is more of a balacne offense now, and the line we have now isnt suited for this offense.

Welcome To Smashmouth
01-12-2008, 01:05 AM
lol some nice thought was put into that whole scheme, but with harrison coming off an mvp season why move him to a new position after such success?? if anybodys gettin switched to middle backer, it's timmons.

as far as those cuts go, we're already undoubtedly losing faneca, possibly starks, and now your talking about taking out two more starting lineman??? reeeally

smith has been a solid player on the most important position for ben, and i dont see him going anywhere. i'd love to see us get some solid help on the line this year in both draft and FA. its not always the flashiest of moves as far as the team goes, but in terms of importance its quisessential and overlooked far too often - lets fix this damn line and get ben some help back there!!!! so yes in that regard i'll agree with you that the line could use some re-vamping, but cutting all those players leaves us really grabbin at desperation in terms of finding that many players to fill in the gaps. ive got faith in the organization, and look for the '08-'09 offensive line to play more solid as a unit than this past year, even without faneca