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View Full Version : A problem nobody is talking about.


NastyLloyd95
01-11-2008, 11:30 AM
It seems to me all of the attention is being placed on the ST, Dline and OLine. FOR GOOD REASON! As we all know.

But what I have not heard is how bad Tyrone Cater played/is. He looked like he was playin Pop Warner ball. This guy does not have what it take to play at the NFL level esp not in our scheme.

On the swing pass to Drew he was beat even though he had the angle and looked bad, really bad. And on the 4th and 2 he waited for Garrard to get to him instead of running to meet him in the hole and smack the daylights out of him. Then when Garrard did get there Carter was given his jock by a QB and proceed to get "patted down" by Carter for another 10-15 yards.

Damn does this guy need to get off the field. I thought Id never long for the "Clark" days...

tony hipchest
01-11-2008, 11:34 AM
back ups generally arent as good as starters.

since that is a widely accepted belief and usually accepted as truth nobody is really gonna talk about carter as a glaring problem for our team.

if we couldve afforded to keep chris hope as our back up, im sure we wouldve.

ShutDown24
01-11-2008, 11:37 AM
Everyone I have talked to thought Carter played fantastic. I thought he played average, that is good for a back up. We missed Ryan Clark more than most people think.

NastyLloyd95
01-11-2008, 11:37 AM
I know he's a back up..all team have to use them at some points. They need to set up and fill in. that is their job. Period.

He did anything but.

NastyLloyd95
01-11-2008, 11:38 AM
Im sure he did some good things away from the play and in some coverages..the one on one plays I talked about he looked awful and both were HUGE plays.

Atlanta Dan
01-11-2008, 11:40 AM
Carter was the #4 safety behind Troy, Clark & Smith at the start of the season.

I agree Carter was exposed in the Jax game but the Steelers were pretty much out of alternatives to starting a career backup.

Assuming Clark recovers and Smith matures IMO Carter will not be on the field next year anywhere near as much as he was during the past 6 weeks.

jjpro11
01-11-2008, 12:16 PM
he looked pretty slow in that game.. he did play better in prior games, and hasnt been burned deep like anthony smith has. ryan clark is better than both of them and has already proven that he is. i just hope he is healthy. carter and smith still make us maybe the deepest at the safety position in the league.

Steeldude
01-11-2008, 12:52 PM
It seems to me all of the attention is being placed on the ST, Dline and OLine. FOR GOOD REASON! As we all know.

But what I have not heard is how bad Tyrone Cater played/is. He looked like he was playin Pop Warner ball. This guy does not have what it take to play at the NFL level esp not in our scheme.

On the swing pass to Drew he was beat even though he had the angle and looked bad, really bad. And on the 4th and 2 he waited for Garrard to get to him instead of running to meet him in the hole and smack the daylights out of him. Then when Garrard did get there Carter was given his jock by a QB and proceed to get "patted down" by Carter for another 10-15 yards.

Damn does this guy need to get off the field. I thought Id never long for the "Clark" days...

that's why he isn't a starter. he is a benchwarmer starting because of an injury. nobody is talking about because he isn't going to be starting next season unless the injury hits again. i will say one thing for carter. it was better having him in there than smith. at least he remains disciplined in coverage.

Lord Stiller
01-11-2008, 12:54 PM
I criticized Carter right after the game, even moreso than the refs

He couldn't push Jones-Drew out of bounds on the swing pass and couldn't tackle Garrard on the draw

Benching Smith for Carter was a HUGE mistake by Tomlin

NastyLloyd95
01-11-2008, 01:00 PM
It's like the lesser of 2 evils...Smith gets beat deap, Carter is slow and not a very good athlete. Against the Jags, I think Smith's strengths would have been better.

And guys I understand he is a starter but there is a level of play you need to adhere to don't you think?

verks36
01-11-2008, 01:01 PM
back ups generally arent as good as starters.

since that is a widely accepted belief and usually accepted as truth nobody is really gonna talk about carter as a glaring problem for our team.

if we couldve afforded to keep chris hope as our back up, im sure we wouldve.

pretty much sums it up

ya he made a couple bad plays but we dont need to focus on it now that we are in the offseason

revefsreleets
01-11-2008, 02:27 PM
Carter was primarily supposed to be on the field in nickel and dime siitutations, and his responsibilities are less than that of a starting safety. He played well for awhile, but, most likely, teams saw tendencies on film and expoited them.

mopit55
01-11-2008, 02:41 PM
carter is a good tackler and good player but not for a good coverage on a big wide receiver.ryan clark is the starter at free safety but draft in the 2,3 or 4 round in the draft a big safety will be good (josh barrett,thomas decoud,craig steltz,jamar adams)

Lord Stiller
01-11-2008, 02:42 PM
carter is a good tackler and good player

LMAO

Carter is NOT a good tackler at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Atlanta Dan
01-11-2008, 02:49 PM
I criticized Carter right after the game, even moreso than the refs

He couldn't push Jones-Drew out of bounds on the swing pass and couldn't tackle Garrard on the draw

Benching Smith for Carter was a HUGE mistake by Tomlin

After the New England trash talking, then getting toasted in the New England game, and then getting burned on another long pass in the first Jax game the next weekend (and those were the screwups we knew about) I respectfully disagree - Smith played himself out of a starter's slot.

mopit55
01-11-2008, 03:00 PM
the steeler's big problem isn't to tackling.only one game this season they play very bad(vs jaguars on season) the problem is to put pressure on quaterback to force bad passes

Lord Stiller
01-11-2008, 03:03 PM
After the New England trash talking, then getting toasted in the New England game, and then getting burned on another long pass in the first Jax game the next weekend (and those were the screwups we knew about) I respectfully disagree - Smith played himself out of a starter's slot.

As someone stated earlier, the Jags strength is running the ball not passing deep. Smith is more of a pure SS rather than FS meaning he is better at attacking a play. Smith is much faster and a way better tackler than Carter. I could see benching Smith if we were playing NE or Indy but against a running team without much of a deep threat, Smith should have started

Just look at the 2 key plays:

(1) Jones-Drew swing pass for a TD - Smith (or any capable tackler) would have easily knocked JD out at the 10 yd line

(2) Garrard 4th and 2 draw play - Smith would have an open shot on Garrard :jawdrop: . He might have forced Garrard to fumble but he would have stopped Garrard for a 5-8 yd gain instead of 30 something or whatever it was

Lord Stiller
01-11-2008, 03:04 PM
the steeler's big problem isn't to tackling

I guess you didnt watch the second half of the season because that is precisely what their problem was (along with qb pressure)

Rhee Rhee
01-11-2008, 03:09 PM
It's like the lesser of 2 evils...Smith gets beat deap, Carter is slow and not a very good athlete. Against the Jags, I think Smith's strengths would have been better.

And guys I understand he is a starter but there is a level of play you need to adhere to don't you think?

ya i agree anthony may have done a little better against the jags but idk... tyrone had some great games at SS... it looked like he played out of position in the jax game..

OneForTheToe
01-11-2008, 03:20 PM
ya i agree anthony may have done a little better against the jags but idk... tyrone had some great games at SS... it looked like he played out of position in the jax game..


Did you guys see the first Jags game? Smith played like wet stinky poo (not the dry stuff) in that game. And overall, the D was better last week than in he first go-round with the Jags

We have more pressing needs than worrying about the 4th string Safety. Hell, if we could find another starting corner I?d be fine with getting rid of either (or both) Smith and Carter and letting Deshea be a backup Safety/Corner. I?d like a more physical starting corner, but I also like have Deshea around.

mopit55
01-11-2008, 03:28 PM
there are a lot cornerbacks in draft.pick one in the third round after the first(o-line) and the second(d-line).

Preacher
01-11-2008, 03:48 PM
that's why he isn't a starter. he is a benchwarmer starting because of an injury. nobody is talking about because he isn't going to be starting next season unless the injury hits again. i will say one thing for carter. it was better having him in there than smith. at least he remains disciplined in coverage.

Now that is a post I can agree with.

Smith will be very good in the future however. I look for him to push in camp. I think, like Ike, he got benched and learned his lesson (let's hope). Of course, there are worse things than being too aggressive, like not being aggressive at all.

He just needs to bottle it up and let it out at the right times. that is all.

steelpride12
01-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Everyone I have talked to thought Carter played fantastic. I thought he played average, that is good for a back up. We missed Ryan Clark more than most people think.

Exactly. Tyrone Carter was the back-up and no one expected him to come in and take over on defense. We missed Ryan Clark big time and with him out most of the season our defense gave up more of the big pass plays and him playing again next year will help out entirely!

HometownGal
01-11-2008, 04:06 PM
I dunno - I thought Carter played a-OK replacing Troy for those couple of weeks. He didn't have a great game against the Jags but really - none of our defensive players played the game of their life in that game. He is what he is - a backup, but I'm not going to tar and feather the guy after having 47 solos, 16 assists and 3 FF's in a backup role.

NastyLloyd95
01-11-2008, 04:27 PM
The fact that he is a backup is an excuse. There should never be an reason on the Steel D to play that bad. Even though we have all seen it this year a few times.

He just looked a lot slower and a step behind everyone else. And he can't tackle as someone stated..that's one thing we all know....Rod Woodson could tackle, Carnell Lake could tackle..Chad Brown ..etc...

The fact that he is a backup does not wash with me...everyone was a back up at some point...

revefsreleets
01-11-2008, 07:00 PM
Again, there are reasons for Carter looking good at first then faltering. The opposing teams spend tons of time analyzing the tiniest little trends, and when Carter first started, they didn't have the film or the study in. After a week or two, they had all they needed.

The reason we missed Clark so much is that he and Troy are film buffs. Clark isn't flashy and doesn't make as many "splash plays" (to coin a Tomlin phrase) as Smith, but the dude is never out of position and knows the offense he is facing inside, outside and upside down. Carter is a situational player at best.

Crushzilla
01-11-2008, 07:24 PM
I think its fair to say that I was one of the biggest Carter doubters when this season began.

By the playoffs, I was really starting to feel him. It blew my mind that he was so undisciplined for how long he had been in the league, but that was his game this season: discipline.

Unfortunately, he WAS in there for, and really blew, the most crucial play of the 2007 Steelers season... That fourth down QB draw.

The first down was already achieved, as a safety not coming on the blitz he can't really be blamed for that, but had he not tried to tackle Gerrard by the belt, it would have been a much smaller gain.

Its unfortunate, I can't turn on the guy for one blown tackle, because it took more than one boneheaded penalty or hot shot action for me to doubt him. Despite his shortcomings, he adds depth to Safety, on this team, we need the depth anywhere we can get it, so he'll certainly do!

19ward86
01-11-2008, 08:12 PM
he isnt fast enough to play safety, he is a good guy for special teams though, well maybe not since how bad we were last year on ST.

LVSteelersfan
01-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Those two plays were as much the fault of Haggans and Farrior who were looking slow as hell in that game. But I agree that Carter had no reason to be on the field against a running team as Smith is faster and a much better hitter. Smith would have knocked Drew into next week on that play, not allowing the TD. Carter is a joke and needs to be gone.

HometownGal
01-11-2008, 09:00 PM
Those two plays were as much the fault of Haggans and Farrior who were looking slow as hell in that game. But I agree that Carter had no reason to be on the field against a running team as Smith is faster and a much better hitter. Smith would have knocked Drew into next week on that play, not allowing the TD. Carter is a joke and needs to be gone.

Smith has made his share of bad plays this season as well, LV. With some maturity and a good swift kick in the hiney, I believe Smith will be a tremendous asset to the Steelers secondary in a year or two.

Again - Carter is a backup and knows his role.

Welcome To Smashmouth
01-12-2008, 12:56 AM
I can say that when he stepped in for troy at SS he had a hell of a game...can't remember who it was against but the dude was flyin all over the field makin tackles at the drop of a dime.

HOWEVER, i still remain a believer that anthony smith is the answer at FS, and i hope he had a good long meditation session on the bench cuz the boys gonna see some more football!!!

Steeldude
01-12-2008, 01:26 AM
Those two plays were as much the fault of Haggans and Farrior who were looking slow as hell in that game. But I agree that Carter had no reason to be on the field against a running team as Smith is faster and a much better hitter. Smith would have knocked Drew into next week on that play, not allowing the TD. Carter is a joke and needs to be gone.


if smith hits him you mean. the guy has wiffed on a lot of tackles. in some instances he has hit his own player rather than the ball carrier.

hopefully smith will become more disciplined and work on his overall game this off-season. he certainly has the hard hitting down.

i have always wondered if he would be better as the steelers SS.

Preacher
01-12-2008, 02:35 AM
if smith hits him you mean. the guy has wiffed on a lot of tackles. in some instances he has hit his own player rather than the ball carrier.

hopefully smith will become more disciplined and work on his overall game this off-season. he certainly has the hard hitting down.

i have always wondered if he would be better as the steelers SS.

Thats an interesting thought. He is great as a FS in the cover 2 when he is SOLELY responsible for the pass. That is why he can line up and crank players.

As a SS? Hmmm. It would be nice to set him lose and let him come up and roam. But we have that position taken care of.

Cover 3? Or better yet, bring him in as a slot CB.. to rush the QB quite a bit?

Who knows. I do hope the kid is trained.

Steeldude
01-12-2008, 07:10 AM
Thats an interesting thought. He is great as a FS in the cover 2 when he is SOLELY responsible for the pass. That is why he can line up and crank players.

As a SS? Hmmm. It would be nice to set him lose and let him come up and roam. But we have that position taken care of.

Cover 3? Or better yet, bring him in as a slot CB.. to rush the QB quite a bit?

Who knows. I do hope the kid is trained.

my other thought was maybe polamalu will remain healthier if moved to FS. he seems like a cerebral player. he also has great closing speed.

Rick5895
01-12-2008, 08:10 AM
Carter is a career backup and played like it, and when he needed to make the play he didn't. Smith will be very good in a year or two. He is young and needs to play with discipline. He seems to be looking for the "sportscenter" hihglight hit. YOu never realize what you have till it's gone or injured. Ryan Clark did one hell of a job.

sherlock
01-12-2008, 08:58 AM
You guys often refer to Smith as young or lacking in experience.
I believe he`s 24 and will be 25 by the start of next season...is this considered rather young in the NFL?
There`s an old sporting maxim that says "if you are good enough you are old enough"
I understand from what you guys are saying that he needs to engage his brain before opening his mouth but I kinda like his s/punky attitude.
I hope he gets alot of opportunities next season to back up his bravado with some good performances on the field.

TheManOfSteel
01-12-2008, 11:43 AM
Anthony Smith is WAY WAY WORSE then Carter. Mr Ryan Clark will never lose his job to either of them. That being said. I hope there both the backup S replaced next year. I agree that it is there job to fill in and play well. They clearly could not do that. We have some work to do if we want to go back to the SB and win it.

Steelman16
01-12-2008, 02:37 PM
What is the word on Ryan Clark though? Last I heard it sounded like his spleen injury was alot worse then people had said, perhaps even career ending in some ways.

I have this feeling Clark won't be up to par next year, but I hope I'm wrong.

Carter played well in place of Troy on the strong side, but other than that, he's as good as gone. He played horribly, I would've rather had Smith in there.

For now, Smith is our future at FS.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-12-2008, 03:01 PM
Smith will be our Safety of the future, His problem is discipline both in reads...and in character. Discipline is something that can "generally" be worked on and corrected.
Smith lost his spot for the right reasons and Carter filled in well ..excusing a few plays.
The reality of the situation is that HAD Smith been on the field on that 4th down play, we could have just as easily been burned on a pump fake which Smith tends to bite on.
Both Smith and Carter have weaknesses.... but luckily Smith's can be attributed to inexperience. In THIS game...we could have picked our poison....burnt on the run...or on the pass... either way we just have to accept that we missed Ryan Clark...and not give up on Smiths future or Carter's ability to back up our starters.

Thomas Mihalich
01-12-2008, 06:24 PM
Smith will be our Safety of the future, His problem is discipline both in reads...and in character. Discipline is something that can "generally" be worked on and corrected.
Smith lost his spot for the right reasons and Carter filled in well ..excusing a few plays.
The reality of the situation is that HAD Smith been on the field on that 4th down play, we could have just as easily been burned on a pump fake which Smith tends to bite on.
Both Smith and Carter have weaknesses.... but luckily Smith's can be attributed to inexperience. In THIS game...we could have picked our poison....burnt on the run...or on the pass... either way we just have to accept that we missed Ryan Clark...and not give up on Smiths future or Carter's ability to back up our starters.

Hopefully Smith will remember that Bill Bellecheat did says that the Pittsburgh Safeties were not too good. It should give him incentive to vastly improve during the off season. It's good to have young guys with fire in their belly like Smith.

Preacher
01-12-2008, 06:35 PM
my other thought was maybe polamalu will remain healthier if moved to FS. he seems like a cerebral player. he also has great closing speed.

And he hits hard... Which means he will be able to cover well (Play centerfield and come up on the deep ball, hitting receivers and forcing them to drop the ball)

A smith can then roam and crank whomever he wants... Do a lot of rushing too.

Yeah... I wouldn't mind seeing them flip roles a few times to see what would happen.

However, the problem then is the fact that we are paying a massive pay check to a FS...

The other thing is that A Smith is a very good ball hawk.... then again, so is Polamalu...

So maybe we allow them to just play true cover two and light up recievers coming down field, much like we do to Cincinnati. There receivers are absolutely frightened by our safeties.

Hmmm. Good thoughts.

DP_Steeler
01-12-2008, 09:08 PM
When your DF can't put much pressure on the opposing QB, it makes it a heck of a lot harder to cover receivers and RBs. Add some pressure to that equation and all of a sudden your DBs look a lot better. I'm OK with our DBs and Safety.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-13-2008, 04:51 AM
When your DF can't put much pressure on the opposing QB, it makes it a heck of a lot harder to cover receivers and RBs. Add some pressure to that equation and all of a sudden your DBs look a lot better. I'm OK with our DBs and Safety.

Starting Woodley over Haggans automatically upgrades our pass rush. If we can get a stud DE to rotate in and help push the OL back it would be great. I like Kendall Langford as a 4th round pick to help our lack of depth at DE.

Elvis
01-13-2008, 07:47 AM
if we couldve afforded to keep chris hope as our back up, im sure we wouldve.

Since when was FS Chris Hope a backup? I dont remember this Hope guy you are refering to... Chris Hope was our starting FS.. and yes... we miss him alot more than folks thought we would... definitely myself...
:coffee:

Elvis
01-13-2008, 07:51 AM
What is the word on Ryan Clark though? Last I heard it sounded like his spleen injury was alot worse then people had said, perhaps even career ending in some ways.

I have this feeling Clark won't be up to par next year, but I hope I'm wrong.

Carter played well in place of Troy on the strong side, but other than that, he's as good as gone. He played horribly, I would've rather had Smith in there.

For now, Smith is our future at FS.
It wouldnt suprise me if the Steelers take a FS in the early rounds of this upcoming draft..
:thumbsup:

Preacher
01-13-2008, 11:32 AM
It wouldnt suprise me if the Steelers take a FS in the early rounds of this upcoming draft..
:thumbsup:

Huh?

We have a great FS in Clark. We have a young stud FS in Smith.

Clark will be healthy again. Smith will learn. Why waste a draft pick on a safety when it is our deepest position?

We have too many needs at O line, a hole to fill (and backups) at LB (farrior is going to be gone pretty soon... we need another LB to take his spot) a solid WR to train to replace Ward in a couple of years, possibly another RB (a big guy to take a few runs from Willie), D line.

matter of fact, the only two positions we DONT need, is QB and safety.