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Atlanta Dan
01-14-2008, 08:18 AM
This from Peter King in today's MMQB column

Ed Bouchette wrote a thoughtful piece in the PittsburghPost-Gazette the other day about how Steeler fans can't look at this season as a failure because of the resuscitation of BenRoethlisberger's career. He's right. Add in Mike Tomlin, and I'd look at the Steeler glass as three-quarters full -- how many teams in the NFL can say right now that they've got a better coach/quarterback situation for the long-term future than Tomlin/Roethlisberger? Look at this Fine Fifteen. New England, yes. Who else? No one. (Indy is interesting, because whoever you pair with Peyton Manning when Tony Dungy retires (Next month? Next year? Next decade?) is going to have a good future, obviously.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/01/13/divisional/2.html

This team has significant immediate problems to address, but with HC and QB settled the foundation around which to rebuild is there

Lord Stiller
01-14-2008, 10:29 AM
Tomlin still has a lot to prove besides saying the right thing in press conferences

yinzer-inseattle
01-14-2008, 11:51 AM
Tomlin still has a lot to prove besides saying the right thing in press conferences

Is there anything Tomlin has to prove that's different or more pressing than any other coach going into their second year as a NFL HC? I'd be interested in reading your critique.

fansince'76
01-14-2008, 11:55 AM
Is there anything Tomlin has to prove that's different or more pressing than any other coach going into their second year as a NFL HC? I'd be interested in reading your critique.

Of course - he needs to win a SB next year, otherwise he's no good. After all, the Steelers already "backslid" in Tomlin's first year: http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=356163&postcount=35

:rolleyes:

Lord Stiller
01-14-2008, 12:02 PM
Is there anything Tomlin has to prove that's different or more pressing than any other coach going into their second year as a NFL HC? I'd be interested in reading your critique.

No, not for a coach going into their second year

Remember Cowher lost his first playoff game after winning the division and having a bye week i believe

Tomlin still has a lot to prove as a coach in general. Like not losing to crappy teams, making right player and personnel decisions, winning playoff games, etc....

Atlanta Dan
01-14-2008, 12:21 PM
Tomlin still has a lot to prove besides saying the right thing in press conferences

I will raise the same issue I raised in a thread regarding Ben's purported shortcomings, in which I asked a poster which non-Brady/Manning QB he would rather have - are you contending the Steelers made the wrong hire at HC last year and, if so, who should have been hired?

Lord Stiller
01-14-2008, 12:59 PM
are you contending the Steelers made the wrong hire at HC last year and, if so, who should have been hired?

Dont put words in my mouth. I like Tomlin, just saying he has a lot to prove still

Dino 6 Rings
01-14-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm a big Tomlin Fan.

Here is what he must improve.

Challenges. How many did he actually challenge correctly this year? He needs to have better communication with the "man upstairs" in regards to when to challenge and when not to.

Special Teams. It is one area of the team that the HC needs to make sure is solid. He has 8 different coaches for offense and defense, but ST needs the HC to be more involved. Making the move for Rossum was a quick fix for the fumbled punts from last season, but we never got good coverage all year, and that should have been fixed. Hopefully, some young guys like Timmons and Anthony Smith can take over bigger roles on the Special Teams and really bring it up a notch next season.

Preperation for Road Games. There was obviously a drop off in the Steelers play this season on the road. Losses in NY, Denver, and Zona were do to us starting slow and not being ready as much as anything else. I excuse the Baltimore loss with 5 starters not playing.

Talent evaluation at the draft. Woodley was a great draft, he already shows a great upside, Timmons is a "wait and see", he needs to if not improve, at least stay steady and solid in this year's draft. I'm very excited to see how he does.

That's about it. He did a great job, learning to be a HC in the NFL during his 1st season. Going 10 wins, and into the playoffs, is better than most guys do in their first run. He needs to build and take a step forward and not regress in any way. Not making the playoffs next season would be bad.

Atlanta Dan
01-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Dont put words in my mouth. I like Tomlin, just saying he has a lot to prove still

Putting words in your mouth would have been saying who should have been hired other than Tomlin while implying you were saying Tomlin should not have been hired

Of course Tomlin still has a lot to prove - in terms of performance so does every coach in the league other than Belichick

You appeared to indicate Tomlin may not be not a long term solution - sorry I had the audacity to ask you to clarify your pronouncement from Olympus and ask if you are saying he should not have been hired

My sincerest apologies for asking

jjpro11
01-14-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm a big Tomlin Fan.

Here is what he must improve.

Challenges. How many did he actually challenge correctly this year? He needs to have better communication with the "man upstairs" in regards to when to challenge and when not to.

Special Teams. It is one area of the team that the HC needs to make sure is solid. He has 8 different coaches for offense and defense, but ST needs the HC to be more involved. Making the move for Rossum was a quick fix for the fumbled punts from last season, but we never got good coverage all year, and that should have been fixed. Hopefully, some young guys like Timmons and Anthony Smith can take over bigger roles on the Special Teams and really bring it up a notch next season.

Preperation for Road Games. There was obviously a drop off in the Steelers play this season on the road. Losses in NY, Denver, and Zona were do to us starting slow and not being ready as much as anything else. I excuse the Baltimore loss with 5 starters not playing.

Talent evaluation at the draft. Woodley was a great draft, he already shows a great upside, Timmons is a "wait and see", he needs to if not improve, at least stay steady and solid in this year's draft. I'm very excited to see how he does.

That's about it. He did a great job, learning to be a HC in the NFL during his 1st season. Going 10 wins, and into the playoffs, is better than most guys do in their first run. He needs to build and take a step forward and not regress in any way. Not making the playoffs next season would be bad.

the road woes seemed to have carried over from last year. we have only won 2 road games outside of ohio over the past 2 seasons. thats just terrible.

Lord Stiller
01-14-2008, 01:53 PM
Putting words in your mouth would have been saying who should have been hired other than Tomlin while implying you were saying Tomlin should not have been hired

Of course Tomlin still has a lot to prove - in terms of performance so does every coach in the league other than Belichick

You appeared to indicate Tomlin may not be not a long term solution - sorry I had the audacity to ask you to clarify your pronouncement from Olympus and ask if you are saying he should not have been hired

My sincerest apologies for asking

If you think I implied Tomlin should not have been hired then you lack reading comprehension.

My point is that there is no guarantee that we are set for the future with Tomlin

alittlejazzbird
01-14-2008, 02:07 PM
the road woes seemed to have carried over from last year. we have only won 2 road games outside of ohio over the past 2 seasons. thats just terrible.

And something else I noticed this season - how many games did the team come out of the gate just plain flat, and then have to battle furiously to come back (sometimes winning, but often falling short)? I was at the Jets game and saw it for myself. The crowd was electric and it was basically a Steelers home game. They were simply not ready to play when the ball was kicked off. For a team of their talent level to be so lethargic and uninspired was inexcusable, and not the mark of a group that aspires to greatness.

I've never been of the mind that coaches are responsible for a player's lack of execution. The men who step on the field (as Tomlin would say) bear the ultimate responsiblity for whether they execute well enough to win, and no professional athlete who earns millions should ever need motivation from anyone other than themselves to play at 110%.

But something was missing at the start of several games this season, and I'm purely speculating that maybe Tomlin, in his rookie-ness, just hadn't figured out how to have this team coming out of the gate like a house on fire. As low a personal regard as I have for Belichick, you can't accuse his team of being unprepared to play.

As incredibly polished as Tomlin comes across, as obviously intelligent as he is, he was still a rookie head coach who has things to learn about life as the head of one of the NFL's flagship and highest profile franchises. He's got all the skills needed to get there, and then some. He's lucky to have landed with a team whose management will give him the time to develop, making mistakes along the way.

All that said, I agree with Peter. We have a lot going for us, and we have a lot to look forward to. I've said since day one of the Tomlin era that this team will be back to the Super Bowl within three to five years - I believe it 100%, and I'm sticking to it.

fansince'76
01-14-2008, 02:17 PM
And something else I noticed this season - how many games did the team come out of the gate just plain flat, and then have to battle furiously to come back (sometimes winning, but often falling short)? I was at the Jets game and saw it for myself. The crowd was electric and it was basically a Steelers home game. They were simply not ready to play when the ball was kicked off. For a team of their talent level to be so lethargic and uninspired was inexcusable, and not the mark of a group that aspires to greatness.

Good point, but I'm not exactly sure how much of that can be attributable to Tomlin - I saw the exact same thing happen even more often in '06. And what's more, last year they didn't even have the fight to come back. I think as Tomlin goes into his sophomore season, he is going to need to weed out the dead wood that doesn't want to play on Sundays.

moedap
01-14-2008, 03:13 PM
And something else I noticed this season - how many games did the team come out of the gate just plain flat, and then have to battle furiously to come back (sometimes winning, but often falling short)? I was at the Jets game and saw it for myself. The crowd was electric and it was basically a Steelers home game. They were simply not ready to play when the ball was kicked off. For a team of their talent level to be so lethargic and uninspired was inexcusable, and not the mark of a group that aspires to greatness.

I've never been of the mind that coaches are responsible for a player's lack of execution. The men who step on the field (as Tomlin would say) bear the ultimate responsiblity for whether they execute well enough to win, and no professional athlete who earns millions should ever need motivation from anyone other than themselves to play at 110%.

But something was missing at the start of several games this season, and I'm purely speculating that maybe Tomlin, in his rookie-ness, just hadn't figured out how to have this team coming out of the gate like a house on fire. As low a personal regard as I have for Belichick, you can't accuse his team of being unprepared to play.

As incredibly polished as Tomlin comes across, as obviously intelligent as he is, he was still a rookie head coach who has things to learn about life as the head of one of the NFL's flagship and highest profile franchises. He's got all the skills needed to get there, and then some. He's lucky to have landed with a team whose management will give him the time to develop, making mistakes along the way.

All that said, I agree with Peter. We have a lot going for us, and we have a lot to look forward to. I've said since day one of the Tomlin era that this team will be back to the Super Bowl within three to five years - I believe it 100%, and I'm sticking to it.



I second that!

Atlanta Dan
01-14-2008, 03:50 PM
If you think I implied Tomlin should not have been hired then you lack reading comprehension.

My point is that there is no guarantee that we are set for the future with Tomlin

Thank you so much

Jeremy
01-14-2008, 03:55 PM
OK. This isn't saying anything about the Steelers and their future, but


Peter King sucks.

That is all.

OneForTheToe
01-14-2008, 04:12 PM
And something else I noticed this season - how many games did the team come out of the gate just plain flat, and then have to battle furiously to come back (sometimes winning, but often falling short)? I was at the Jets game and saw it for myself. The crowd was electric and it was basically a Steelers home game. They were simply not ready to play when the ball was kicked off. For a team of their talent level to be so lethargic and uninspired was inexcusable, and not the mark of a group that aspires to greatness.

I've never been of the mind that coaches are responsible for a player's lack of execution. The men who step on the field (as Tomlin would say) bear the ultimate responsiblity for whether they execute well enough to win, and no professional athlete who earns millions should ever need motivation from anyone other than themselves to play at 110%.

But something was missing at the start of several games this season, and I'm purely speculating that maybe Tomlin, in his rookie-ness, just hadn't figured out how to have this team coming out of the gate like a house on fire. As low a personal regard as I have for Belichick, you can't accuse his team of being unprepared to play.

As incredibly polished as Tomlin comes across, as obviously intelligent as he is, he was still a rookie head coach who has things to learn about life as the head of one of the NFL's flagship and highest profile franchises. He's got all the skills needed to get there, and then some. He's lucky to have landed with a team whose management will give him the time to develop, making mistakes along the way.

All that said, I agree with Peter. We have a lot going for us, and we have a lot to look forward to. I've said since day one of the Tomlin era that this team will be back to the Super Bowl within three to five years - I believe it 100%, and I'm sticking to it.

I think it is a combination of a couple of things. Other than the playoff games leading up to the Super Bowl, it seems teams are successful at scripting plays against our defense early . Equally, I think Lebeau likes to sit back a bit early in games and feel out a teams tendancies before attacking. So, therefore, teams have had success moving the ball early until coach Lebeau "gets the turn on them." Usually by the second half of games he has gotten teams to give up on the running game which adds to our success. In addition, I think Ben is a slow starter in most games.

In the past it has worked because we have been a bit stronger defensively. Now however, with the team worn down at the end of the season instead of being tied or down by a few points we are finding ourselves behind by a couple of touchdowns - and that is too much for any team to overcome week after week.

It is also very hard to be consistent if you don't have a good ofensive line.

Edman
01-14-2008, 04:56 PM
Pittsburgh staged several furious comebacks this year, only to fall short in most of those 6 losses. The only time the Steelers were blown out and quit was against dreaded New England. And even that wasn't so bad. The Steelers played 30 minutes in that game.

2007 had it's share of disappointing losses, but would you have rather preferred reliving the Baltimore massacres in 2006? Or how about the Atlanta and Oakland Debacles?

Dino 6 Rings
01-14-2008, 05:31 PM
Absolutely not. This year was a vast improvement, week in and week out to last year's performance. The 2 losses to the Ravens were devistating, the Oakland game made me vomit. The only positive thing last year was Holmes catching and running with the game winning OT catch against the Bengals to end their playoff dreams again. Other than that, I really can't remember a positive moment from last season.

This year had plenty of positives. The Smack down on the NFC West teams, minus the Cards, the Brutal beat down on the Bills, The Browns, The Bengals and the Ravens were all great.

It was the let downs that had your head shaking. A friend of mine, huge Steeler fan, told me before the Jags game, "Man, we aren't going to win it all this year, we lost to the Jets and the Cardinals in the same season. You can't do that and win it all."

I almost have to agree with him now. I mean, how the ef do you lose to 2 of the worst teams in the NFL in the same year.

Steelerfreak58
01-14-2008, 05:40 PM
We didn't utilize one of our biggest and best weapons all year long consitently #83 Heath Miller.:banging:

Rhee Rhee
01-14-2008, 10:58 PM
to me it's the players that win championships... i think what's really important is that ben has some great young recieving threats... santonio, heath and a couple more decent years from ward... (he's also got a solid RB in mr.parker)

The_WARDen
01-15-2008, 01:22 PM
Is there anything Tomlin has to prove that's different or more pressing than any other coach going into their second year as a NFL HC? I'd be interested in reading your critique.

2 things off the bat:

1) he has to prove that he doesn't panic in big games. Going for 2 from the 12 with 10 minutes left was a panic move. He has to prove that he has better game management in that aspect.

2) contrary to his own words, he has to prove that he plays to win. Playing Martyball at the end of the playoff game up a single point was not playing to win.

Prove those two areas and I'll shut up.

Stlrs4Life
01-15-2008, 09:35 PM
All some very good points. I beleive we learn from all of them.

steel striker
01-15-2008, 09:46 PM
I agree play to win the game and, I'm not trying to bring up Herm edwards here. That reminded me of Cohwer in some ways when we did not have a good QB. The way that we just ran the three times in the Jags game still bothers me to death. I mean the whole game we let Ben pass to win and then we all of the sudden we just give them the ball back with great field position. I wish Ben would have changed that call at the line and, atleast tried to win the game. I know hindsight is 20/20 but, it just bugs the hell out of me. Now it is on to next year and, let's hope our oline gets some help and special teams as well. In the mean time please let someone beat those cheaters!

OX1947
01-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Tomlin's last drive decision will carry with me the entire year. The PAT's were not the problem for me because they were aggressive decisions that almost worked had it not been for a phantom holding call.

The one that kills me and still does is not going for the first down on that last drive when we had just scored 3 TDs in 10 min. I cant figure out why you put the pressure on a lousy Special Teams, with their really good special teams to boot, and all that on your own 20 yard line. I get it if they were at mid field where at worst you kick it in the end zone and the jags take it at the 20. But the jags had all their time outs and the 2 min warning. One first down would have killed 2:30 min at least and they wouldn't have had any timeouts on their next drive. Their defense was GASED, you could see it. Just a stupid decision. You cant make those decisions in the playoffs, for god sakes roll out Big Ben and have him throw a couple of 5 yard passes and if nothing comes, he would at least get that scrambling. I just don't get it, what a waste......