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lamberts-lost-tooth
01-20-2008, 05:09 AM
Ed Bouchette on the Steelers: The Grass Menagerie
Sunday, January 20, 2008
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers soon will decide whether to stick with grass at Heinz Field or finally make the move to artificial turf.

They had meetings on the matter this past week.

"Don't rule out grass," one official cautioned as mounting sentiment grows inside the organization to install artificial turf.

They've already chosen the type of artificial surface if they make the change -- the new generation of FieldTurf that West Virginia University installed last summer and the New England Patriots put down in 2006. It's called Duraspine and it cost WVU $901,152 to install.

The cost has little to do with the Steelers' decision. They paid $150,000 last November to have sod placed over their deteriorating DDGrassMaster field, which is grass tied together and down by synthetic fibers.

The DDGrassMaster, which also is used by the Denver Broncos, was supposed to be an improvement over Heinz Field's original all-grass field. It was great in September and October. By November, after poundings by Pitt and the Steelers for two months, the five high school championships played at Heinz Field applied the coup de gras.

Injuries and their own players' professed preferences for grass are reasons the Steelers have stayed with the grass that turned to dirt and mud by late season. They believed it to be safer. In that sense, it's been a well-intentioned experiment.

But when the Steelers played on the rock-hard artificial surface at Three Rivers Stadium for 31 years, they often cited studies that showed there were fewer serious injuries in games on those old artificial turfs than there was on grass in the National Football League.

As part of their investigation, the Steelers have gathered research from the NFL on injuries -- how they occurred and on what surfaces. They will use those studies as they determine whether to make the switch to FieldTurf's Duraspine.

Some in the organization believe the grass at Heinz Field has become a national embarrassment heightened by the Monday Night game against Miami and the downpours that occurred often during home games this season. The field also ranks at or near the bottom of annual NFL Players Association surveys of its members. Pitt officials have urged the Steelers to switch to artificial turf.

A new artificial surface also could help the Steelers on the field in a couple of ways. First, as they evolve under quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and Willie Parker from the old plowhorse offense into something sleeker. Parker has said he prefers artificial turf, which is no surprise because of his style of running. Second, by increasing income to help with the ever-increasing cash outlays for signing bonuses. Although there is a salary cap in the NFL, the cash needed for signing bonuses has become a problem for some teams in smaller markets.

By having artificial turf, the Steelers can attract more events like the Kenny Chesney concerts, knowing the field can hold up. The Rolling Stones, one source said, wanted to play in Heinz Field during the fall but were turned away because of concerns about the grass. The income from such events could help fund signing bonuses.

There really is little downside to having the new, safer generation of FieldTurf at Heinz Field. The Steelers have been practicing on FieldTurf since 2000 at their UPMC indoor facility on the South Side with no known serious injuries coming from it.

For those into aesthetics, the field would be forever green -- unless it snows -- and those slanted white lines the Steelers and Pitt use can disappear and end zones for each team zipped in and out.

Nothing 'special' in snubbing deserving hall candidates
The next former Steelers player to make the Pro Football Hall of Fame will be Rod Woodson next year. He should be a shoo-in.

A teammate of his should have been voted in by now but center Dermontti Dawson, selected to seven Pro Bowls and considered at least the equal to Hall of Famers Dwight Stephenson and Mike Webster, hasn't even made it to the semifinal 25 let alone the final 15.

Yet a punter, Ray Guy -- not even close to the best in the history of the game -- keeps making it to the final 15. The hall of fame should have a special wing -- make that a closet -- for special teams players. That would be better than having punters such as Guy -- who participated in probably an average of five plays a game -- somehow knocking real players such as Dawson out of spots in the finals. Put Guy in the special category, along with Steve Tasker if you must and a few kickers. They can even put in a long-snapper because, as the supporters of kickers and punters have argued for years, they are part of the game too.

Sometimes hindsight isn't 20-20
It's good to see Mike Tomlin stick by his guns, but does he think we believe that if he had to do it over again, had he time to think about it, he would really order his team to go for a two-point conversion from the 12 with 10:29 left in his first playoff game?

You can argue one way or the other about him going for two at the 2, but once the penalty came, he had to kick it for the small chance of making it from the 12 -- the risk vs. reward was not in Tomlin's favor on this one.

"Yes, I'd do it again," Tomlin said. "I throw caution to the wind. I play to win."

On this one, however, he threw common-sense to the wind.

Galax Steeler
01-20-2008, 06:34 AM
I hope we stick with grass it has been the steeler way forever I would hate to see the change and believe artificial would cause easier injuries.

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 07:58 AM
I hope we stick with grass it has been the steeler way forever I would hate to see the change and believe artificial would cause easier injuries.

Forever = 2001?:smile:

GBMelBlount
01-20-2008, 08:30 AM
I hope we stick with grass it has been the steeler way forever I would hate to see the change and believe artificial would cause easier injuries.

I don't know. I wouldn't mind seeing the Stones in concert again! :thumbsup:

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 08:43 AM
I hope we stick with grass it has been the steeler way forever I would hate to see the change and believe artificial would cause easier injuries.

I mediocre team playing on grass....sounds like a great idea.

RoethlisBURGHer
01-20-2008, 08:51 AM
I hope we stick with grass it has been the steeler way forever I would hate to see the change and believe artificial would cause easier injuries.

Three Rivers Stadium had artificial turf, not grass. So it hasn't been the Steelers way "forever", just since they started playing at Heinz Field in 2001.

I would rather them go with the new FieldTurf than stick with grass. No more marshy field. We could have painted endzones and the Steelers logo at midfiend due to the eaze of switching out the field decorations. It would save the Steelers money because there would be no need to water or cut the grass, because there would be none.

Our offense is slowly changing. Fast Willie Parker is our running back now, not Jerome The Bus Bettis. One of the fastest players on the team is starting wideout Santonio Holmes. I wouldn't mind seeing them play all their home games on Field Turf, wich would help maximize their speed because they wouldn't be slipping and falling on a muddy field.

You remember the debacle the Dolphins game was? I wouldn't want that again. If the field had been decent, we would have killed them. Instead it was a 3-0 win because the field negated absolutley any advantages we had.

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 08:55 AM
Three Rivers Stadium had artificial turf, not grass. So it hasn't been the Steelers way "forever", just since they started playing at Heinz Field in 2001.

I would rather them go with the new FieldTurf than stick with grass. No more marshy field. We could have painted endzones and the Steelers logo at midfiend due to the eaze of switching out the field decorations. It would save the Steelers money because there would be no need to water or cut the grass, because there would be none.

Our offense is slowly changing. Fast Willie Parker is our running back now, not Jerome The Bus Bettis. One of the fastest players on the team is starting wideout Santonio Holmes. I wouldn't mind seeing them play all their home games on Field Turf, wich would help maximize their speed because they wouldn't be slipping and falling on a muddy field.

You remember the debacle the Dolphins game was? I wouldn't want that again. If the field had been decent, we would have killed them. Instead it was a 3-0 win because the field negated absolutley any advantages we had.

That's a myth. The maintenance costs aren't that drastic.

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 09:35 AM
I liked the part of the article where the Steelers used to defend playing on the green cement at TRS by claiming the rug lessened injuries as compared to playing on grass- the injury stats are a red herring regardless of whether the stats being used to defend grass or FieldTurf

Bottom line is the grass goes because the lousy field conditions finally were exposed to the nation during the Miami game and the Rooneys were humiliated - otherwise the grass would stay - the chatter about the Rooneys suddenly claiming that now the Stones can play Heinz Field and more free agents can be signed from that windfall is just a way for the Rooneys to avoid admitting they were wrong by insisting on grass for so long

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 09:44 AM
Look, the fake grass is the wave of the future. Players are getting a lot faster and they want a surface that shows off their speed. The Steelers can either can with the future or get left behind.

Now with that being said, I don't think it'll ever really catch on in baseball because of the differences between the sports.

plenewken
01-20-2008, 11:34 AM
I hope we stick with grass it has been the steeler way forever I would hate to see the change and believe artificial would cause easier injuries.''

How did you like the ...... hmmm ,,,,,,,,,,, grass, at Three Rivers Stadium?

The great thing about Field Turf's Duraspine is that it can be ordered in custom colors. I'd love to see Heinz Field with a black and gold turf. <g>

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 11:42 AM
I'm worried about Bouchette's job security if Pittsburgh switches to field turf. Seems like he devotes every other column to the Heinz Field grass surface. Whatever will he write about? :rolleyes:

We MUST keep Ed employed! KEEP THE GRASS!!:sofunny:

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 11:51 AM
Three Rivers Stadium had artificial turf, not grass. So it hasn't been the Steelers way "forever", just since they started playing at Heinz Field in 2001.

I would rather them go with the new FieldTurf than stick with grass. No more marshy field. We could have painted endzones and the Steelers logo at midfiend due to the eaze of switching out the field decorations. It would save the Steelers money because there would be no need to water or cut the grass, because there would be none.

Our offense is slowly changing. Fast Willie Parker is our running back now, not Jerome The Bus Bettis. One of the fastest players on the team is starting wideout Santonio Holmes. I wouldn't mind seeing them play all their home games on Field Turf, wich would help maximize their speed because they wouldn't be slipping and falling on a muddy field.

You remember the debacle the Dolphins game was? I wouldn't want that again. If the field had been decent, we would have killed them. Instead it was a 3-0 win because the field negated absolutley any advantages we had.

The field was marshy against Miami because the water leaked through the seams in the tarp. Against Cinncinati and both Jacksonville games, field conditions did not play a factor in the outcome. Having field turf will have no impact on Parker's ability. He had 100 yards against JAX in December in the snow. The Miami game was a rare exception. The grounds crew was able to maintain the integrity of the field for all other games. Keep the grass. Less injuries, more pure surface.

plenewken
01-20-2008, 11:57 AM
KEEP THE GRASS!!:sofunny:

Grass? Where? LOL.

The DD Master stuff currently used at Heinz Field is a hybrid natural grass/synthetic fibers surface. Switching to an all synthetic surface won't be a new thing for the Steelers. nor will it affect their game. Three Rivers had a 100% artificial surface (and a crappy one) and that didn't prevent the Steelers from winning 4 Superbowls while playing there.

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 11:57 AM
The field was marshy against Miami because the water leaked through the seams in the tarp. Against Cinncinati and both Jacksonville games, field conditions did not play a factor in the outcome. Having field turf will have no impact on Parker's ability. He had 100 yards against JAX in December in the snow. The Miami game was a rare exception. The grounds crew was able to maintain the integrity of the field for all other games. Keep the grass. Less injuries, more pure surface.

Again......statements with no facts to back them up.

Lord Stiller
01-20-2008, 12:05 PM
This is such an easy solution it is ridiculous

1 - dont schedule a Steelers game the same weekend as the high school games

2 - kick gayass Pitt Panthers the F out of the stadium. They are a disgrace

Lord Stiller
01-20-2008, 12:05 PM
Again......statements with no facts to back them up.

Parker ran hard all year and then gets hurt on the turf in St Louis

more injuries on turf is a fact

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 12:07 PM
Again......statements with no facts to back them up.

I do have facts to back up my statement. Click on the attached link.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=327409#post327409

The Duke
01-20-2008, 12:11 PM
This is such an easy solution it is ridiculous

1 - dont schedule a Steelers game the same weekend as the high school games

2 - kick gayass Pitt Panthers the F out of the stadium. They are a disgrace

you know the rooney's won't kick them out

they may be cheap but they're not mean :wink02:

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 12:13 PM
Parker ran hard all year and then gets hurt on the turf in St Louis

more injuries on turf is a fact

Krieder tore his ACL is the muck against Miami.

But the grass advocates don't ever mention that fact!

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 12:14 PM
I do have facts to back up my statement. Click on the attached link.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=327409#post327409

Those are player's opinions! You can't tell the difference between facts and opinions?

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 12:18 PM
Those are player's opinions! You can't tell the difference between facts and opinions?

The survey is based on the first hand experience of NFL players. So, yes, I would call that a fact.

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 12:22 PM
The survey is based on the first hand experience of NFL players. So, yes, I would call that a fact.

Surveys are opinions. Don't confuse a survey with a fact. You found an opinion poll, good for you. But that doesn't mean that what they think is true.

What I know is the Steelers lost their starting running back and starting fullback to injuries this season. One got hurt on grass and one got hurt on turf. And by the way, the guy who got hurt on turf has been one of the biggest advocates of putting in turf at Heinz Field.

That's also a "fact."

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 12:22 PM
This is such an easy solution it is ridiculous

1 - dont schedule a Steelers game the same weekend as the high school games

2 - kick gayass Pitt Panthers the F out of the stadium. They are a disgrace

Agree with point 1 although I think the field is shot after the highs school games no matter how much rest it then gets - a major part of the Miami game screwup was trying to lay sod and then play another game within 72 hours of the high school games

As for getting rid of "gay ass" Pitt a condition of public financing for Heinz was that Pitt get access to Heinz since Pitt Stadium was not going to be replaced with a solely Panthers football only facility

Steeldude
01-20-2008, 12:24 PM
isn't this new artificial turf better than the old three rivers' turf? meaning not as hard and so forth.

i found this link giving some interesting info on durapine turf...

FieldTurf is fundamentally different from all others. Stable, firm not spongy, non-abrasive and uniform in traction, FieldTurf is engineered to play and feel like natural grass. On FieldTurf, players perform with confidence - and never experience the accelerated fatigue and muscle / joint stress associated with lightweight, rubber-filled systems. Like blades of natural grass, FieldTurf’s fibers are soft and easy to slide on. They are surrounded and stabilized by FieldTurf’s patented, heavy fill - the “artificial earth” that so clearly sets FieldTurf apart.

http://fieldturfinfo.com/duraspine

just click on "What Makes Field Turf Different" in the drop-down menu under "The Engineered System".

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 12:25 PM
The survey is based on the first hand experience of NFL players. So, yes, I would call that a fact.


But didn't that same survey rank Heinz below any NFL field other than Oakland's?

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 12:26 PM
And by the way, the guy who got hurt on turf has been one of the biggest advocates of putting in turf at Heinz Field.

That's also a "fact."

It's also a fact that he's part of the very small minority of Steelers players who advocate field turf.

Rhee Rhee
01-20-2008, 12:41 PM
if only they weren't 5 highschool games played in it... we'd be fine...

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 12:43 PM
It's also a fact that he's part of the very small minority of Steelers players who advocate field turf.

According to Dan Rooney.....

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 12:44 PM
But didn't that same survey rank Heinz below any NFL field other than Oakland's?

I don't dispute the fact that the Heinz Field surface is more challenging to play on come winter time. Oakand's stadium has similar issues when it rains because the field is below or right around sea level, so the water has no where to drain and causes the track to be slippery.

Again, my issue with field turf is player wear and tear, and the players' feedback on this, as outlined in the survey, is overwhelmingly that grass subjects them to less wear and tear on their bodies. That has to be strongly taken into consideration in the club's decision, one that I hope will result in leaving the surface as is.

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 12:52 PM
According to Dan Rooney.....

According to Ed Bouchette:

Steelers players prefer grass to artificial turf
Thursday, November 29, 2007 By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The NFL, the media and even the Steelers' fans are unhappy with the mucky conditions at Heinz Field. Yet, in an informal survey of players yesterday, the Steelers overwhelmingly favored the grass -- or dirt or muck -- in their home stadium over having any kind of artificial turf installed.

And the Bog Bowl conditions in which the Steelers won a late 3-0 game against the Miami Dolphins not only drew one of the largest TV audiences on Monday Night Football this season, it attracted more fans late in the game than any other this season.

Apparently, football fans still love watching a game played in the rain and muck more than they do perfect conditions -- even if they complain about it afterward

The game pulled a 9.9 rating, the third-most viewed on ESPN on Monday night this year. But it did not reach its peak until the 15 minutes between 11:15 and 11:30, when it grew to an 11.2 rating. Traditionally, ESPN reaches its peak viewership on Monday nights between 9:45 p.m. and 10 p.m. They had not experienced a spike that late all year.

"It built up as the game went on," said Bill Hofheimer, director of communications for ESPN. "It was the latest any game peaked. It was such a close game, and the circumstances were unique."

Steelers president Art Rooney II said this week that one reason they try to maintain a grass field is that their players prefer it. Many of those players concurred yesterday.

"You ask any player in here, take a vote, whether they want turf or grass," declared Hines Ward, captain of the offense. "I guarantee you everybody will say grass."

Of those asked, only Willie Parker -- his nickname is Fast after all -- said he preferred artificial turf because it helps him run. When pressed, kicker Jeff Reed, who at first said he preferred grass, admitted he would rather kick on artificial turf than the gumbo that Heinz Field has become.

That was about it. Ward said the players prefer grass because they believe it is safer and gives them a competitive edge -- even when the grass nubs are worn down to dirt, mud or there's soggy sod.

"It's better than turf," Ward said. "Dirt? That's home-field advantage. We play on it, we're used to playing on it. It doesn't really bother us.

"Yes, it was yucky, it was terrible, but that turf -- Troy [Polamalu] banged his knee on the turf, Santonio [Holmes] sprained his ankle. That turf doesn't give. Once your foot, whenever it gets locked in on it, it's a wrap. Maybe on grass it slides and gives."

Even before the Bog Bowl that took place Monday night when 1.31 inches of rainfall met newly installed New Jersey sod to create a mucky mix, NFL players voted Heinz Field the worst grass surface in the league in a 2006 survey. Even the Steelers' players ranked it poorly as a home surface.

Those Steelers players, however, believe that while it may not be a great surface, it is better than artificial.

"I need the grass," cornerback Ike Taylor said. "I like the mud, I like sloppiness, I'm used to it. So Mr. Rooney, can we please keep the grass? I don't want no FieldTurf, it's bad on your knees. I'm healthy right now and I would like to stay that way."

Steelers players apparently are not swayed by their brethren on other teams. Cincinnati switched to FieldTurf in 2004, and Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer said yesterday that he loves it.

"Personally, I kind of like the old school, I like the grass," Palmer said. "I like to get a uniform dirty. But from what it used to be here, our turf was always bad. I know yours up there is bad because of the situation you are in, but ours was bad all year long. ... So I like the turf better here now just because the grass was so bad. But I'd rather have a good grass field."

The Steelers don't have that, and maybe never will if they stay with grass because of all the games that are played at Heinz Field.

"I would much rather play on real grass," defensive end Brett Keisel said. "I like our field, even when it's dirt. We understand what it's like, we understand the footing.

"It's been like this since Heinz Field was built. Obviously, all this concern is because of the Monday Night monsoon. Teams come in and complain about it, but, when you come into Heinz Field, you better bring in your big-boy cleats and be ready to go."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07333/837695-13.stm

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 12:52 PM
I don't dispute the fact that the Heinz Field surface is more challenging to play on come winter time. Oakand's stadium has similar issues when it rains because the field is below or right around sea level, so the water has no where to drain and causes the track to be slippery.

Again, my issue with field turf is player wear and tear, and the players' feedback on this, as outlined in the survey, is overwhelmingly that grass subjects them to less wear and tear on their bodies. That has to be strongly taken into consideration in the club's decision, one that I hope will result in leaving the surface as is.

But it wasn't just Heinz = didn't the survey virtually without exception ranks grass fields in the Northeast & Midwest (not just Heinz) behind all non-grass fields?

http://newsblaze.com/story/2007020210234500002.pz/topstory.html

if you take the leap of faith that NFL players are rational, that would indicate that even factoring in the perceived greater risk of injury on a non-grass field that players would still prefer playing on something other than the muck at Heinz and similar messes once the weather turns colder and wetter in the Northeast & Midwest..

SteelCityMan786
01-20-2008, 01:16 PM
I don't see why not call up the Bucs and see what Natural surface they use?

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 02:22 PM
But it wasn't just Heinz = didn't the survey virtually without exception ranks grass fields in the Northeast & Midwest (not just Heinz) behind all non-grass fields?

http://newsblaze.com/story/2007020210234500002.pz/topstory.html

if you take the leap of faith that NFL players are rational, that would indicate that even factoring in the perceived greater risk of injury on a non-grass field that players would still prefer playing on something other than the muck at Heinz and similar messes once the weather turns colder and wetter in the Northeast & Midwest..

Cold weather grass fields are usually more worn down by mid to late November and the footing is more precarious. That's why these fields probably get rated lower. Players have to pay more attention to what shoes they wear, adjust their running style, and placekickers' range is limited. But just because players have mud stains on their uniforms does not mean that the quality of the game is any less than on a field turf surface.

Also, keep in mind that playing on a faster field turf surface is a double edged sword. Our skill players might be able to cut sharper and run faster. However, the defenders will be able to cut just as sharply and run just as fast....hence harder collisions, hence more wear and tear. Given how much Ben scrambles and gets sacked, that is a huge concern for me.

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 02:34 PM
I don't see why not call up the Bucs and see what Natural surface they use?

It's a special blend called year-round warm weather and sunshine.:grin:

SteelCityMan786
01-20-2008, 02:36 PM
Cold weather grass fields are usually more worn down by mid to late November and the footing is more precarious. That's why these fields probably get rated lower. Players have to pay more attention to what shoes they wear, adjust their running style, and placekickers' range is limited. But just because players have mud stains on their uniforms does not mean that the quality of the game is any less than on a field turf surface.

Also, keep in mind that playing on a faster field turf surface is a double edged sword. Our skill players might be able to cut sharper and run faster. However, the defenders will be able to cut just as sharply and run just as fast....hence harder collisions, hence more wear and tear. Given how much Ben scrambles and gets sacked, that is a huge concern for me.

One more reason to keep the grass.

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 04:26 PM
One more reason to keep the grass.

Sure.....we keep the grass and stay a slow plodding team.

Aussie_steeler
01-20-2008, 05:22 PM
Ed Bouchette on the Steelers: The Grass Menagerie
Sunday, January 20, 2008
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A new artificial surface also could help the Steelers on the field in a couple of ways. First, as they evolve under quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and Willie Parker from the old plowhorse offense into something sleeker. Parker has said he prefers artificial turf, which is no surprise because of his style of running. Second, by increasing income to help with the ever-increasing cash outlays for signing bonuses. Although there is a salary cap in the NFL, the cash needed for signing bonuses has become a problem for some teams in smaller markets.

By having artificial turf, the Steelers can attract more events like the Kenny Chesney concerts, knowing the field can hold up. The Rolling Stones, one source said, wanted to play in Heinz Field during the fall but were turned away because of concerns about the grass. The income from such events could help fund signing bonuses.



I can see how the installation of field turf will change the running game, but if the organisation has more cash generated from extra stadium use would the Rooney philosophy change in anyway when it comes to spending money?

I dont see the FO bringing in high priced free agents, so does the extra cash allow the team to structure contracts better so that we dont lose as many players to free agency?

Could somebody please try to give me an explanation on how the concept of extra revenue would impact the team?:cheers:

OX1947
01-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Ed Bouchette on the Steelers: The Grass Menagerie
Sunday, January 20, 2008
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers soon will decide whether to stick with grass at Heinz Field or finally make the move to artificial turf.

They had meetings on the matter this past week.

"Don't rule out grass," one official cautioned as mounting sentiment grows inside the organization to install artificial turf.

They've already chosen the type of artificial surface if they make the change -- the new generation of FieldTurf that West Virginia University installed last summer and the New England Patriots put down in 2006. It's called Duraspine and it cost WVU $901,152 to install.

The cost has little to do with the Steelers' decision. They paid $150,000 last November to have sod placed over their deteriorating DDGrassMaster field, which is grass tied together and down by synthetic fibers.

The DDGrassMaster, which also is used by the Denver Broncos, was supposed to be an improvement over Heinz Field's original all-grass field. It was great in September and October. By November, after poundings by Pitt and the Steelers for two months, the five high school championships played at Heinz Field applied the coup de gras.

Injuries and their own players' professed preferences for grass are reasons the Steelers have stayed with the grass that turned to dirt and mud by late season. They believed it to be safer. In that sense, it's been a well-intentioned experiment.

But when the Steelers played on the rock-hard artificial surface at Three Rivers Stadium for 31 years, they often cited studies that showed there were fewer serious injuries in games on those old artificial turfs than there was on grass in the National Football League.

As part of their investigation, the Steelers have gathered research from the NFL on injuries -- how they occurred and on what surfaces. They will use those studies as they determine whether to make the switch to FieldTurf's Duraspine.

Some in the organization believe the grass at Heinz Field has become a national embarrassment heightened by the Monday Night game against Miami and the downpours that occurred often during home games this season. The field also ranks at or near the bottom of annual NFL Players Association surveys of its members. Pitt officials have urged the Steelers to switch to artificial turf.

A new artificial surface also could help the Steelers on the field in a couple of ways. First, as they evolve under quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and Willie Parker from the old plowhorse offense into something sleeker. Parker has said he prefers artificial turf, which is no surprise because of his style of running. Second, by increasing income to help with the ever-increasing cash outlays for signing bonuses. Although there is a salary cap in the NFL, the cash needed for signing bonuses has become a problem for some teams in smaller markets.

By having artificial turf, the Steelers can attract more events like the Kenny Chesney concerts, knowing the field can hold up. The Rolling Stones, one source said, wanted to play in Heinz Field during the fall but were turned away because of concerns about the grass. The income from such events could help fund signing bonuses.

There really is little downside to having the new, safer generation of FieldTurf at Heinz Field. The Steelers have been practicing on FieldTurf since 2000 at their UPMC indoor facility on the South Side with no known serious injuries coming from it.

For those into aesthetics, the field would be forever green -- unless it snows -- and those slanted white lines the Steelers and Pitt use can disappear and end zones for each team zipped in and out.

Nothing 'special' in snubbing deserving hall candidates
The next former Steelers player to make the Pro Football Hall of Fame will be Rod Woodson next year. He should be a shoo-in.

A teammate of his should have been voted in by now but center Dermontti Dawson, selected to seven Pro Bowls and considered at least the equal to Hall of Famers Dwight Stephenson and Mike Webster, hasn't even made it to the semifinal 25 let alone the final 15.

Yet a punter, Ray Guy -- not even close to the best in the history of the game -- keeps making it to the final 15. The hall of fame should have a special wing -- make that a closet -- for special teams players. That would be better than having punters such as Guy -- who participated in probably an average of five plays a game -- somehow knocking real players such as Dawson out of spots in the finals. Put Guy in the special category, along with Steve Tasker if you must and a few kickers. They can even put in a long-snapper because, as the supporters of kickers and punters have argued for years, they are part of the game too.

Sometimes hindsight isn't 20-20
It's good to see Mike Tomlin stick by his guns, but does he think we believe that if he had to do it over again, had he time to think about it, he would really order his team to go for a two-point conversion from the 12 with 10:29 left in his first playoff game?

You can argue one way or the other about him going for two at the 2, but once the penalty came, he had to kick it for the small chance of making it from the 12 -- the risk vs. reward was not in Tomlin's favor on this one.

"Yes, I'd do it again," Tomlin said. "I throw caution to the wind. I play to win."

On this one, however, he threw common-sense to the wind.

Play to win? Is that why he ran the ball three times when the Jags had all their timeouts and the 2 min warning and the steelers were on their own 20, AND have the worst special teams on the planet? After scoring 3 TDs in 10 min, how the hell do you not get ten more yards on a tired team and end the game there.

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 05:32 PM
I dont see the FO bringing in high priced free agents, so does the extra cash allow the team to structure contracts better so that we dont lose as many players to free agency?

Could somebody please try to give me an explanation on how the concept of extra revenue would impact the team?:cheers:

It will have no impact at all = the "extra revenue" from other events is a smokescreen for the Rooneys having to admit they screwed up by not putting in Field Turf 5 years ago

The grass is going because the league was ridiculing the Rooneys after the Miami game, not because of any previously undiscovered revenue opportunities if the mud goes away

Borski
01-20-2008, 05:33 PM
I heard somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that the newest version of FieldTurf has a "cushion" type layer to give it similar properties to grass if someone fell on it. if thats the case then I wouldnt mind seeing FieldTurf, if not then its too risky.

Aussie_steeler
01-20-2008, 05:37 PM
It will have no impact at all = the "extra revenue" from other events is a smokescreen for the Rooneys having to admit they screwed up by not putting in Field Turf 5 years ago

The grass is going because the league was ridiculing the Rooneys after the Miami game, not because of any previously undiscovered revenue opportunities if the mud goes away


:thumbsup: I thought as much.

Thanks Dan:cheers:

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 06:02 PM
It will have no impact at all = the "extra revenue" from other events is a smokescreen for the Rooneys having to admit they screwed up by not putting in Field Turf 5 years ago
Does a 30-13 home record since 2003 sound like a mistake to you?

JackHammer
01-20-2008, 06:21 PM
The new turf is great. It's not even close to being hard like the old Three Rivers turf. It didn't hurt the Pats, literally and figuratively. With the direction our offense is going in, it would benefit them a lot. Holmes and Parker stand to benefit the most. I'm a Pitt fan too so hopefully they get the new turf and announce it before February 6. That could be the icing on the cake that gets Pryor to come to Pitt :D

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 06:26 PM
Does a 30-13 home record since 2003 sound like a mistake to you?

Are you seriously contending the record is due to the field? They won 4 Super Bowls in 6 years from 1974 -1979 - was that due to artificial turf at TRS?

If the grass is such an advantage, why do you think the Rooneys are even considering a switch - after all, the team was 7-1 at home this year

If you want to disagree with whether the switch to Field Turf is a mistake that is fine, but, to use your own point, stick to the facts.

Do you disagree the Rooneys are considering the switch because of the Miami game images? If not that, then what prompted the change of heart?

Just asking:smile:

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 07:11 PM
Are you seriously contending the record is due to the field?

I never said their record was due to the field. My point was that the club did not screw up by not installing field turf 5 years ago. Screwing up would have been such that the field would have cost Steelers wins, or the field would have been so unplayable that the game quality would have suffered, or there would have been a pattern of players suffering severe injuries. Other than the Miami game (1 game out of 43), how many other examples can be cited where any of these three factors were evident? I can't think of any.

The field conditions are the same for both teams. If you are a fast player and can adjust to the conditions, you will still play like a fast player. Decisions like this should not be made on the basis of how pretty the surface looks to a television audience. The Pittsburgh players like the surface. The quality of football played on the surface is good. NFL players prefer grass from a health standpoint. To me, given these points, it makes no sense to change.

plenewken
01-20-2008, 07:34 PM
This is such an easy solution it is ridiculous

1 - kick gayass Pitt Panthers the F out of the stadium. They are a disgrace

I disagree. I pay taxes so that Heinz Field can be used by Pitt.

The Rooneys wouldn't have been able to afford Heinz Field without the State and the County pitching in so they don't have the exclusity there.

I'd rather see FieldTurf installed than kicking out the other teams,
Remember that FieldTurf is what's used for the Steelers' practice field in the South Side so they're used to it and it's not more dangerous than their current hybrid crap.

plenewken
01-20-2008, 07:36 PM
That could be the icing on the cake that gets Pryor to come to Pitt :D

Pitt is NOT on Pryor's short list and I can't blame him.

SteelCityMan786
01-20-2008, 07:38 PM
Pitt is NOT on Pryor's short list and I can't blame him.

The only 2 MAJOR places I can see him going to are Michigan and Ohio State with Penn State being the darkhorse

Jeremy
01-20-2008, 07:52 PM
Surface is not going to make a difference in winning. They won 4 Super Bowls playing on concrete and carpet and they won one playing on grass.

It comes down to what holds up better and what's going to be better for the players.

Atlanta Dan
01-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I never said their record was due to the field. My point was that the club did not screw up by not installing field turf 5 years ago. Screwing up would have been such that the field would have cost Steelers wins, or the field would have been so unplayable that the game quality would have suffered, or there would have been a pattern of players suffering severe injuries. Other than the Miami game (1 game out of 43), how many other examples can be cited where any of these three factors were evident? I can't think of any.

The field conditions are the same for both teams. If you are a fast player and can adjust to the conditions, you will still play like a fast player. Decisions like this should not be made on the basis of how pretty the surface looks to a television audience. The Pittsburgh players like the surface. The quality of football played on the surface is good. NFL players prefer grass from a health standpoint. To me, given these points, it makes no sense to change.

I have asked you several times and keep looking for a response

Given your strong commitment to a grass field, why do you think the Rooneys are wavering in not continuing their previous support and considering a switch to Field Turf since it makes "no sense" to switch?

As far as the quality of the game suffering, I will agree to disagree with you on that.

GeneralRobinson
01-20-2008, 10:04 PM
I have asked you several times and keep looking for a response

Given your strong commitment to a grass field, why do you think the Rooneys are wavering in not continuing their previous support and considering a switch to Field Turf since it makes "no sense" to switch?

As far as the quality of the game suffering, I will agree to disagree with you on that.

To me it makes no sense. What difference does it make why I think the club is considering a switch in surface. The answer is I don't know. I can speculate, like you said, that they want a field that looks good to the TV audiences. But that's all it is, speculation. All I do know is that I support retaining the current surface for the numerous reasons stated.

As far as your question:

Do you disagree the Rooneys are considering the switch because of the Miami game images?

Yes, I disagree. The story about considering field turf was reported before the Miami game.

Steelers interested in WVU field surface for Heinz Field
Sunday, November 25, 2007
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers are investigating artificial surfaces and it appears they might install one at Heinz Field before the start of the 2008 season.

They acknowledged the surface on their field was not good enough when they covered it with new sod this weekend for tomorrow night's game. Now they are looking to take the next step and put something down permanently.

They have been particularly interested in the new surface West Virginia University has this year. WVU installed a new generation of Field Turf this summer called Duraspine at the cost of $901,152. The Steelers sent some of their people to WVU to take a look at the turf there.

The Steelers have practiced on a different version of Field Turf at their indoor facility since 2000, as has Pitt. The Panthers added an artificial turf called Sportexe on one of their outdoor practice fields next to the Steelers this year.

Pitt also has been urging the Steelers to install an artificial turf. Imagine trying to recruit quarterbacks, wide receivers and running backs and showing them in November or December the kind of surface on which they will play their home games. It can only be a recruiting disadvantage.

"In partnering with Sportexe, we were able to make our outstanding practice facility even greater with the installation of a cutting-edge synthetic turf surface," said former Pitt athletic director Jeff Long at the time the new turf was installed.

If they're bragging about it helping their practices, imagine what an artificial turf can do for games!

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07329/836557-66.stm

SteelCityMan786
01-20-2008, 10:05 PM
Three Rivers Stadium had artificial turf, not grass. So it hasn't been the Steelers way "forever", just since they started playing at Heinz Field in 2001.

I would rather them go with the new FieldTurf than stick with grass. No more marshy field. We could have painted endzones and the Steelers logo at midfiend due to the eaze of switching out the field decorations. It would save the Steelers money because there would be no need to water or cut the grass, because there would be none.

Our offense is slowly changing. Fast Willie Parker is our running back now, not Jerome The Bus Bettis. One of the fastest players on the team is starting wideout Santonio Holmes. I wouldn't mind seeing them play all their home games on Field Turf, wich would help maximize their speed because they wouldn't be slipping and falling on a muddy field.

You remember the debacle the Dolphins game was? I wouldn't want that again. If the field had been decent, we would have killed them. Instead it was a 3-0 win because the field negated absolutley any advantages we had.

Even with FieldTurf, they'd still have to wait until the end of the Pitt season to put it on because of NCAA Regulations with field being shared by NCAA/NFL teams.

Steel Pit
01-21-2008, 01:38 AM
From a fans perspective, I want to see FIELD TURF installed. If for no other reason, "It simply looks 100% better than natural grass".

I understand that more than 90% of the current Steelers players have indicated that they prefer to play on natural grass BUT, I would like to see their answers to the following question:

The Heinz Field surface is ALWAYS destroyed by late November or early December every year. Do you prefer playing on the late season "decayed natural surface" of Heinz Field over field turf?

To take it a step further: Do you prefer playing on the "annual freshly laid and LOOSE sod" of Heinz Field over field turf?

In my mind there's absolutely no doubt that the Steelers would benefit greatly from field turf during the latter part of each season.

Rhee Rhee
01-21-2008, 03:13 AM
From a fans perspective, I want to see FIELD TURF installed. If for no other reason, "It simply looks 100% better than natural grass".

I understand that more than 90% of the current Steelers players have indicated that they prefer to play on natural grass BUT, I would like to see their answers to the following question:

The Heinz Field surface is ALWAYS destroyed by late November or early December every year. Do you prefer playing on the late season "decayed natural surface" of Heinz Field over field turf?

To take it a step further: Do you prefer playing on the "annual freshly laid and LOOSE sod" of Heinz Field over field turf?

In my mind there's absolutely no doubt that the Steelers would benefit greatly from field turf during the latter part of each season.

haha hopefully they wont be the sixth seed and go to everyone elses stadium...

revefsreleets
01-21-2008, 05:44 PM
They'll probably pick the new field turf. I can't wait to see you guys all chew each other up over that...but until then, the important part of the article was about Dirt being snubbed. It's highway robbery. Dawson should have been first ballot, and Woodson getting in next year (and he WILL be unanimous 1st ballot) will make it even harder for Dirt. There is simply NO WAY they will elect two Steelers in one year.

GeneralRobinson
01-21-2008, 08:14 PM
I understand that more than 90% of the current Steelers players have indicated that they prefer to play on natural grass BUT, I would like to see their answers to the following question:

The Heinz Field surface is ALWAYS destroyed by late November or early December every year. Do you prefer playing on the late season "decayed natural surface" of Heinz Field over field turf?

Since you asked::grin:

From the article: "Steelers players prefer grass to artificial turf"
Thursday, November 29, 2007 By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Hines Ward:

That was about it. Ward said the players prefer grass because they believe it is safer and gives them a competitive edge -- even when the grass nubs are worn down to dirt, mud or there's soggy sod.

"It's better than turf," Ward said. "Dirt? That's home-field advantage. We play on it, we're used to playing on it. It doesn't really bother us.

"Yes, it was yucky, it was terrible, but that turf -- Troy [Polamalu] banged his knee on the turf, Santonio [Holmes] sprained his ankle. That turf doesn't give. Once your foot, whenever it gets locked in on it, it's a wrap. Maybe on grass it slides and gives."

Ike Taylor:

"I need the grass," cornerback Ike Taylor said. "I like the mud, I like sloppiness, I'm used to it. So Mr. Rooney, can we please keep the grass? I don't want no FieldTurf, it's bad on your knees. I'm healthy right now and I would like to stay that way."

Brett Keisel:

"I would much rather play on real grass," defensive end Brett Keisel said. "I like our field, even when it's dirt. We understand what it's like, we understand the footing.

"It's been like this since Heinz Field was built. Obviously, all this concern is because of the Monday Night monsoon. Teams come in and complain about it, but, when you come into Heinz Field, you better bring in your big-boy cleats and be ready to go."

SteelCityMan786
01-21-2008, 08:27 PM
From a fans perspective, I want to see FIELD TURF installed. If for no other reason, "It simply looks 100% better than natural grass".

I understand that more than 90% of the current Steelers players have indicated that they prefer to play on natural grass BUT, I would like to see their answers to the following question:

The Heinz Field surface is ALWAYS destroyed by late November or early December every year. Do you prefer playing on the late season "decayed natural surface" of Heinz Field over field turf?

To take it a step further: Do you prefer playing on the "annual freshly laid and LOOSE sod" of Heinz Field over field turf?

In my mind there's absolutely no doubt that the Steelers would benefit greatly from field turf during the latter part of each season.

Field turf isn't as good as you think it is.

If you try to play through an injury, it can aggravate it PRETTY BAD. I played on it with an ankle sprain and it isn't fun whatsoever. Of course this can very upon position. Linemen it's a pain in the ass. Other spots can very.

For me, no they wouldn't benefit from it especially since they have gotten away from playing on an artificial surface since the days of TRS. It's going to take a lot to get use to changing the offense and defense both. The traditional offense that is good on Grass, is not always the case on FieldTurf.

MasterOfPuppets
01-21-2008, 08:36 PM
smoke grass....not turf...:smoker:

MDSteel15
01-21-2008, 08:49 PM
Three Rivers Stadium had artificial turf, not grass. So it hasn't been the Steelers way "forever", just since they started playing at Heinz Field in 2001.


Yeah and Forbes Field was grass before that....

Jeremy
01-22-2008, 10:14 AM
Fine......then actually have a decent grounds crew to maintain the grass.

tony hipchest
01-22-2008, 10:48 AM
They'll probably pick the new field turf. I can't wait to see you guys all chew each other up over that...but until then, the important part of the article was about Dirt being snubbed. It's highway robbery. Dawson should have been first ballot, and Woodson getting in next year (and he WILL be unanimous 1st ballot) will make it even harder for Dirt. There is simply NO WAY they will elect two Steelers in one year.not to mention lc greenwood's chances slipping away... :dang:

anyways, what turf do the bears use? that stuff looks great and natural, and arguably the fastest player in the nfl seems to have no problem with it.

(it is worth mention that the bears seem to lose more players due to injury every year than any other team but i have no idea if thats related to what they play on.)

GeneralRobinson
01-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Thought I would add some perspective from the medical community:

With Parker's Injury, Controversy Over Steelers' Field Turf Continues

The Pittsburgh Channel | December 21, 2007

Pittsburgh Steelers running back Willie Parker's season is over after he broke his leg early in Thursday night's game against the St. Louis Rams.

The injury is a dark chapter in the Steelers' playoff drive, but it casts a bright light on another problem: field turf, a surface the team is considering to replace the grass at Heinz Field.

But is it more dangerous for the players?

Most people thought field turf was the solution to Heinz Field's sloppy conditions, but what happened to Parker in the Steelers' 41-24 win over the Rams might have changed their minds.

Late last month, when the Pro Bowl Parker was asked which he preferred, field turf or natural grass, he said field turf.

"There's no question," Parker said. "Yeah. I'm way faster. I'd go for turf. If it's up to me, I'd do turf."

"It's disappointing anytime you are on this turf, and if your foot gets caught wrong, it can lead to a serious injury," said wide receiver Hines Ward.

The field turf is the same stuff the Steelers use at their indoor practice site.

The latest survey of NFL players said they would rather play on grass, believing turf would shorten their playing careers and affect their lives after football.

"Like I say, grass is still safer," said Dr. Freddie Fu of UPMC Sports Medicine.

Fu said while field turf is getting better, it doesn't completely replace a natural surface.

His fellow physician said studies show part of the turf troubles might come down to their choice of footwear and the competitive edge it creates.

"They like that grab, because you can cut and turn on a dime, but what that does is put your foot in a fixed position when the rest of your body is in another position, and that leads to those twisting injuries," said Dr. Tanya Hagen.

The future of the playing surface at Heinz Field might be less about grass versus turf and more about a consistent field versus a constant risk of injury.


http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/steelers/14908693/detail.html

Jeremy
01-22-2008, 11:06 AM
The future of the playing surface at Heinz Field might be less about grass versus turf and more about a consistent field versus a constant risk of injury.

BINGO!

Nobody on this board or in the Pittsburgh community would have a problem with the surface at Heinz Field if it was consistent.

GeneralRobinson
01-22-2008, 11:18 AM
BINGO!

Nobody on this board or in the Pittsburgh community would have a problem with the surface at Heinz Field if it was consistent.

It is consistent. The grass gets consistently sparser during the cold winter months.:smile:

I understand what you are saying. However, when I watch the games, I don't see the muddy field being much of a factor. I've seen Willie Parker get 200 yard games in November in December at Heinz Field.

I've seen receivers able to get deep on a soggy field in an October downpour where Roethlisberger was able to throw 5 interceptions in the first half.

I've seen exciting 3 exciting 2nd half comebacks this year (one in November, 1 in December, 1 in January) where the last thing on my mind was the field condition.

And who could forget the do or die game against Chicago in a heavy snowstorm. I think the field held up well there despite the conditions. Well enough for us to get a win, right?

No conditions are ever going to be perfect. You could have the smoothest track possible, but the wind could be gusty and eliminate the passing game. If that's the case, why risk additional wear and tear on your players?

Jeremy
01-22-2008, 11:25 AM
It is consistent. The grass gets consistently sparser during the cold winter months.:smile:

I understand what you are saying. However, when I watch the games, I don't see the muddy field being much of a factor. I've seen Willie Parker get 200 yard games in November in December at Heinz Field.

I've seen receivers able to get deep on a soggy field in an October downpour where Roethlisberger was able to throw 5 interceptions in the first half.

I've seen exciting 3 exciting 2nd half comebacks this year (one in November, 1 in December, 1 in January) where the last thing on my mind was the field condition.

And who could forget the do or die game against Chicago in a heavy snowstorm. I think the field held up well there despite the conditions. Well enough for us to get a win, right?

No conditions are ever going to be perfect. You could have the smoothest track possible, but the wind could be gusty and eliminate the passing game. If that's the case, why risk additional wear and tear on your players?

The fact is that the high school and college games are still going to played on the field, so the choices are limited.

1. Go with fake grass.

2. Replace the real grass after the WPIAL Championships.

3. Get a better grounds crew to maintain the grass.

Pick one and run with it, just don't wait around forever to make the decision.

GeneralRobinson
01-22-2008, 11:32 AM
I've seen receivers able to get deep on a soggy field in an October downpour where Roethlisberger was able to throw 5 interceptions in the first half.

Oops!....Of course I meant to say 5 touchdowns. 5 interceptions would not do much to support my case for grass. Sorry for the confusion.

Dino 6 Rings
01-22-2008, 11:37 AM
I know the solution. Keep the grass, build the Pitt Panthers their own stadium closer to campus, and play all the college and highschool championship games at Pitt Stadium.

Problem solved. Now pony up people and build my Panthers a new place to play. I still get teary eyed when I remember the day we beat the Irish and stormed the field and tore down the goal posts. One of the top 10 moments in my life for sure.

I'll even contribute, I have a couple hundred bucks to toss into the pot. If Steelers nation, decided to save the grass, by building my Panthers a new stadium, a few 100 bucks each would do the job !!!

(this is all tongue and cheek I hope you know. I do believe the Panthers need their own place to play, but grass conditions are one of the bottom reasons for that belief.)

Jeremy
01-22-2008, 11:41 AM
I know the solution. Keep the grass, build the Pitt Panthers their own stadium closer to campus, and play all the college and highschool championship games at Pitt Stadium.

Problem solved. Now pony up people and build my Panthers a new place to play. I still get teary eyed when I remember the day we beat the Irish and stormed the field and tore down the goal posts. One of the top 10 moments in my life for sure.

I'll even contribute, I have a couple hundred bucks to toss into the pot. If Steelers nation, decided to save the grass, by building my Panthers a new stadium, a few 100 bucks each would do the job !!!

(this is all tongue and cheek I hope you know. I do believe the Panthers need their own place to play, but grass conditions are one of the bottom reasons for that belief.)

Pitt isn't going anywhere. They blew most of their construction budget on The Pete and the rest of it is going in to new facilities for baseball, soccer, and track in Oakland.

Maybe if Pitt can get back to the Top 10, they can create some momentum for their own building. But as of right now, Pitt has no interest in leaving the plush acomodations of Heinz Field.

Dino 6 Rings
01-22-2008, 11:44 AM
I know it. It is a pretty awesome set up to share facilities with the Steelers.

Back in the Top 10...ok, so next season as we dominate the Big East with Shady breaking rushing records and our defense shutting down the planet. (and the drop off at WVU, Rutgers, Louisville, won't hurt either) maybe we'll make it to the top 10...

LETS GO PITT!!!

HERE WE GO STEELERS!!!

8 Effing Months...I'm not going to make it.

Elvis
01-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Pitt isn't going anywhere. They blew most of their construction budget on The Pete and the rest of it is going in to new facilities for baseball, soccer, and track in Oakland.

Maybe if Pitt can get back to the Top 10, they can create some momentum for their own building. But as of right now, Pitt has no interest in leaving the plush acomodations of Heinz Field.
Your right Jeremy, I wish that the Panthers had their own stadium and the idea of everyone playing there. But, you know what? Why would the Panthers build a new stadium when they can have their cake and eat it too?
They have it easy there at Heinz Field and I dont see that changing anytime soon.

Elvis
01-22-2008, 03:57 PM
:coffee: By The Way
I do like the idea of having the artificial turf myself. I am sure that there is better turf than what used to be in Three Rivers Stadium. Times have changed and theres got to be better turf out there. I think that Willie Parkers speed will show up more and the speed of Santonio Holmes will show up better as well. I know that there is a scare of injuries with it, but there is injuries that happen anywhere.

Steel Pit
01-22-2008, 11:05 PM
Yeah and Forbes Field was grass before that....


Yeah and the Steelers SUCKED RICHARD'S DONKEY while playing at Forbes Field.

The best Steelers teams played on an artificial surface. The best football team ever assembled, the 70's Steelers, lost only 1 player to an injury that could be attributed to the artificial surface, that was Jack Lambert who was becomming long of tooth when he sustained a career ending turf toe injury.

Oh yes, I don't want to forget about the Rod Woodson knee injury. In my opinion, Barry Sanders was more to blame than the turf. Besides, Woodson came back that year and then played another what, 7 or 8 seasons with other teams?

Preacher
01-23-2008, 12:15 AM
Come on... This is an easy one.

Survey the team, especially the starters. Give the starters two votes to everyone else.

Do they want field turf or grass?

Grass? Great, we got grass. Field turf, great, we have field turf. Split? What do the starters want... that is what we get.

No changes until there is a majority for field turf. Then we switch over, and put it behind us.

Because honestly... I really DON'T CARE what ANYONE ELSE thinks about the field. Just our players.

bratsinmybelly
01-23-2008, 12:53 AM
anyways, what turf do the bears use? that stuff looks great and natural, and arguably the fastest player in the nfl seems to have no problem with it.



Good Point. I also heard the announcers mention during the NFC Championship that Lambeau has a grass/turf combo. It seems to hold up well and look good. Surely that's not the same combo that we have is it? If not, we should maybe give it a look.

I have always been a little confused by our turf situation. It's been shoddy from the get go. We're not the only team in the NFL to face climate/public event challenges, but we seem to be the only team in the NFL that consistently gets embarrassed by the condition of our field. Is our situation really that unique, or are we just not handling it? Either way we need to get it fixed, and quick. It's been a distraction long enough.

plenewken
01-23-2008, 11:14 AM
Good Point. I also heard the announcers mention during the NFC Championship that Lambeau has a grass/turf combo. It seems to hold up well and look good. Surely that's not the same combo that we have is it? If not, we should maybe give it a look.

Lambeau Field uses DD Grassmaster, the same stuff as Heinz Field. Their field is heated. I don't know if ours is. Could be one of the reasons why it holds better. Another reason could be the number of games played there. I don't know if someone, other than the Packers, play at Lambeau.

D.J.
01-23-2008, 05:27 PM
What is the deal with all you people saying that its Steeler tradition to play on grass? For thirty of our glorious years, we played on ARTIFICIAL TURF! The only thing that has changed since 1970-2000 is that we switched from the having the Pirates in the stadium to the Panthers. The reality is Heinz Field is still a multipurpose stadium. It is also home to the Panthers and the high school championships are another Pittsburgh tradition. Professional football in the 21st century was not meant to be played in goo gobs of mud or patches popping up like a toupee on a ball man?s head falling off. The synthetic surfaces of today are equal or better than real grass and statistically just as safe or safer and it just does not make sense continuing to try force this grass experiment to work when it has been obvious since 2001 that it won't work. Heinz Field has too much going on to even think about it any longer. Professional football (as well as college) should demand a PROFESSIONAL playing surface. Period. Ultimately, the Steelers will player better. TURF PLEASE.

SteelCityMan786
01-23-2008, 06:44 PM
What is the deal with all you people saying that its Steeler tradition to play on grass? For thirty of our glorious years, we played on ARTIFICIAL TURF! The only thing that has changed since 1970-2000 is that we switched from the having the Pirates in the stadium to the Panthers. The reality is Heinz Field is still a multipurpose stadium. It is also home to the Panthers and the high school championships are another Pittsburgh tradition. Professional football in the 21st century was not meant to be played in goo gobs of mud or patches popping up like a toupee on a ball man?s head falling off. The synthetic surfaces of today are equal or better than real grass and statistically just as safe or safer and it just does not make sense continuing to try force this grass experiment to work when it has been obvious since 2001 that it won't work. Heinz Field has too much going on to even think about it any longer. Professional football (as well as college) should demand a PROFESSIONAL playing surface. Period. Ultimately, the Steelers will player better. TURF PLEASE.

Right, but they played on the sucky surface known as ASTROTURF! Astroturf is even worse then Field Turf. The place that hosts my district's championship games in A-AAA has said turf which was used at Three Rivers. Three Rivers was better then the turf I'm talking about, but still, the Steelers have done great with Grass. So keep it.