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DACEB
01-22-2008, 10:52 AM
This has been bugging me for quite some time, so I need to get it off my chest and mind.

We all know that the Rooneys are 'frugal', and for the most part admire and respect thier 'fiscal responsibility'. The Steelers build thru the draft, they do not throw money away in FA. Why is it then that Colbert is'nt more aggressive in trying to make deals.

We lost ARE to FA and never replaced his abilities on the field. We are still in need of a returnman now. Our STs have been suffering the last couple of years. Meanwhile the Pats made two significant moves in the off-season that Colbert should have made. No, I'm not talking about Moss for a 4th rounder. I'm talking about the Pats signing K. Washington WR, and W. Welker WR. We all know what Welker did this year for the Pats, over 100 catches and a solid returnman. We all should know Washington as well. Washington, 6'3" 216lbs, was a WR on the Bengals roster before the Pats picked him up. This big, physical WR did'nt catch many balls sitting behind all the other WRs in N.E.. What he did do was rank in the top three tacklers on STs. Now maybe to some this does'nt sound like much, but we could have had those two instead of W. Ried and C. Wilson. Welker is a better WR and returner than Wilson, and we could have used Washington on STs. Ried sure has'nt done anything on STs. Maybe someone can find out if we are actually paying more for Ced and Reid, than N.E. is paying for Welker and Washington. Let's not forget that we basically lost an active player on the roster and a 6th round pick this year because we had to get Rossum because Reid was and is a bust.

My other issue goes back to last years draft. I think alot of us would have liked to have seen us trade down last year, that pick 15 was to high for Timmons. We now know that they are looking to move Timmons inside. We could have traded our 1st round pick last year for Clev.'s 1st this year and Clev.'s 2nd last year (Dallas made the move). We could have easily taken the Jets 2nd round pick (Harris ILB) and still picked up Woodley. It was no secret that Clev. was dying to make a move to pick up B. Quinn. Colbert dropped the ball, would'nt we all love that second 1st round pick this year.

I know, hindsight is 20/20 right?? You don't need hindsight to know that Welker and Washington are the exact type of guys the Steelers normally go after in FA (no big names, no big money). I think we all believe that Colbert and Tomlin jumped a little too quick at Timmons.

I'm just saying that I expect more, and hopefully we get more this offseason.

tony hipchest
01-22-2008, 11:16 AM
we rarely hear from colbert. for anyone who hasnt checked it out, i'd suggest to listenning to colberts interview with shein and wilcots last week on sirius, linked in delhess's channel 124 thread in the media section.

while it may not answer some of these questions, it squashes all doubts of the steelers knowing bens true value and whether they will try to low ball him when it comes to contract extension time.

sirius also had scott pioli on for a great interview on the same day. them trading for/ signing welker was an easy choice. as he said, they played the dolphins twice a year and no matter what the patriots did they could never stop or prevent welker from getting open. this is one of the leagues best teams not being able to stop a player on one of the leagues worst teams.

the patriots landed him thanks to the familiarity and him perfectly fitting their wants and desires. like wayne chrebet was for the jets, the patriots knew they needed a new mascott. the steelers already had steeley mcbeam.

also a 2nd and 7th round pick was a high price to pay for ALL teams except for the patriots. most teams need their 2nd round picks. the patriots knew most of their picks wouldnt make the roster anyways (only their 1st rounder from 07 draft made the team). the patriots can afford to piss away 1st rounders in cheating scandals.

basically a 2nd rounder was too expensive fro 31 other teams, but nothing to the pats. theres nobody they couldve drafted to give them welkers production. theres no team who woulda traded for welker, to be nothing more than a 3rd option in the passing game.

weler is the new kevin faulk or troy brown for the patriots offense. these players will always be more valuable to the pats than any other team because they can accept a secondary role and still step up as a high priced starter whenever asked.

if randle el played for the pats as the slot guy, he would put up numbers he never dreamed of in washington or pittsburgh.

the patriots offense is set up where the dink and dunk checkdown is often the safest and "best" play. (see kevin faulks #'s from sunday).

i dont know if ben would have the time to progress through his reads and finally "settle" on the final option.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-22-2008, 11:36 AM
From what I keep hearing from Colbert...I am beginning to think that if we only get one free agent this year..it might be OT Travell Wharton ..only because that one pickup not only immediately upgrades our line...but opens up our draft a great deal more.
I have to think that we are very happy with FWP, but if Jonathan Stewart falls to us in the first, and we have picked up an OT in Free Agency... Colbert will be tempted to give the Steelers the best 1-2 RB punch in the NFL.

Jeremy
01-22-2008, 11:40 AM
Welker was a trade....not a FA signing. And the Steelers did make a trade for a return man when they picked up Allen Rossum.

The simple fact is the depth chart is littered with Cowher projects right now. It's going to take a couple of years to get rid of all the Cowher projects and replace them with solid players.

Sometime inactivity is the best kind of activity you can have.

DACEB
01-22-2008, 12:06 PM
My bad, totally spaced out that the Pats gave up a 2nd rounder for Welker.

The jist is the same though.

slippy
01-22-2008, 12:55 PM
our last three drafts have been terrible!!!

just compare to the giants last 3 drafts. giants are a team that does things very similar to the steelers.

19ward86
01-22-2008, 03:03 PM
the thing about the steelers organization is that the rooneys are disceplined. give ARE a big contract and then you have to give willie a big contract, then ben, then hines, then harrison, polamalu and the list will go on and on, if they keep all contracts small then players dont expect to get big money, but still play hard because they are treated very well by the rooneys. notice you dont here about when our QB gets injured he has to stay home and he doesnt get to come to the game(eagles-mcnabb).what the saints did last year is basically a year around thing for the steelers, they give, participate, and help with the needy. i support us being tight, and yet i still wish they did some things different but i know that this way will pay off in 2yrs instead of being a 1 yr thing.

Elvis
01-22-2008, 03:33 PM
I love the Steelers front office and owners etc. I think that they usually make good decisions. I just know that they chose Alonzo Jackson a few years back hoping to turn him into a OLB from DE and that Didnt Work Did It? I just hope that the Steelers didnt make a mistake again with Timmons. I know that it is early in his career and they are not moving him from DE to LB so that should help out alot. I have never played the game so I dont know how hard it is to move from OLB to MLB either. We just have to try to be patient..

Galax Steeler
01-23-2008, 04:40 AM
I like colberts way of thinking I know people make mistakes but I think they do a great job a drafting there is no team that every person from the draft works out.

Rick5895
01-23-2008, 08:02 AM
Teh Steelers don't overspend , that is a good thing, A R E is a prime example, he got ridiculas money from the Skins. Free agency is not the way to go either, players have great seasons playing in another teams system, then sign for big money elsewhere only to be "ordinary``
Kelly Washington may have been great for teh Pats, but why sign anybody form the Bengals, you just don`t know what you`re getting there from a character standpoint.
Build through the draft and sign FA that fit our style at a reasonable price.

DACEB
01-23-2008, 09:37 AM
Teh Steelers don't overspend , that is a good thing, A R E is a prime example, he got ridiculas money from the Skins. Free agency is not the way to go either, players have great seasons playing in another teams system, then sign for big money elsewhere only to be "ordinary``
Kelly Washington may have been great for teh Pats, but why sign anybody form the Bengals, you just don`t know what you`re getting there from a character standpoint.
Build through the draft and sign FA that fit our style at a reasonable price.

Let's get one thing straight, I admire the way the Rooneys work. The Steelers set the standard for those practices, which others like the Pats emulate. In no way am I saying we should have payed ARE the money he was looking for.

That said, Kelley Washington is exactly the type of FA we should go after. This is basically the point I was trying to make. Washington was a WR on a team that had three quality WRs in front of him. That is the type of situation where you can get a FA cheap because they are looking to get out from underneath someone else's shadow. He played for a team we saw twice a year, so we should know what he is capable of and if he indeed has character issues.

Washington was an example I used to illustrate my point. I believe he is a good example because he is big and physical (something we've all been looking for in a WR), he was cheap, and he is an asset to STs (which we lack at this time).

As Tony mentioned in his post, the Pats picking up Welker for a 2nd and a 7th round pick was a nobrainer. They had seen enough of that guy playing the Fins twice a year that they knew he was worth it. Part of the equation is the fact that your getting a good player and diminishing your rival as well.

Am I out of line to think that someone in our personell dept. should have made a move on Welker? Who should know better than our personell people that we needed a return guy, or that C. Wilson was not panning out. Would any of you NOT trade Wilson for Welker right now?

I just feel that something is lacking. Maybe it is Colbert, maybe it is our scouting. One thing for sure, I'm not blaming the Rooneys.

Counselor
01-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Personally, I don't want Welker. He would be nothing as a receiver ---except for the fear of Randy Moss. He fits the Pats scheme--I truly believe he would not work in ours.

Return man---sure---but when that trade was being pulled off, Reid was still believed to be the guy for the job---the FO couldn't anticipate his fumblitis (remember he was hurt last season)

Overall we've done well in the draft over the past several years --- '03 Troy, '04 Ben
'05 Heath '06 Santonio. Not a single dud in the first round in 4 years (I will hold judgment on Timmons) Remember that sometimes, just because guys aren't on the roster here and didn't make the team, doesn't mean they were poor choices---they often get picked up somewhere else. In the 06 draft all the sports analysts were saying that we should trade up and use up some extra picks because there is no way 7 guys new rookies could make our roster---ie we were "deep" and din't need a lot.
Well, with age and FA, a lot changes in a couple of years and now we need help a lot of places----but that can't be blamed entirely on Colbert and the Scouts.

But, if you really think Colbert needs to go, I hear Dave Littlefield is looking for a job . . .

tony hipchest
01-23-2008, 11:06 AM
Am I out of line to think that someone in our personell dept. should have made a move on Welker? Who should know better than our personell people that we needed a return guy, or that C. Wilson was not panning out. Would any of you NOT trade Wilson for Welker right now?

I just feel that something is lacking. Maybe it is Colbert, maybe it is our scouting. One thing for sure, I'm not blaming the Rooneys.

personally, before this season, i wouldve rather the steelers went after keyshawn johnson over wes welker. i would easilly trade c. wilson for welker now, but wison is significantly cheaper and doesnt cost a 2nd round pick (remember, the steelers traded away their 2nd rounder just 2 years ago to move up and draft s. holmes).

i dont think anything is lacking with colbert or the scouting. i will give 2 recent examples of excellent scouting where we simply didnt "land the fish"-

1) after 04 we let p. burress walk. we offer tj houshmandzadeh a contract. "trading" plex and a salary twice as high for tj (both are pro bowlers putting up really nice numbers) wouldve been an excellent move. tj fit our system and our needs at the time (tall wr opposite ward) much better than someone like welker wouldve.

unfortunately tj made the worst possible career decision, when he decided to take less money and remain a bungle. steelers went with their 2nd option (c. wilson) and won a superbowl.

2) after last season the steelers needed a punter. they took some heat for using a 4th and 6th round pick to take the best rookie punter available. but that was plan b.

did anyone know who andy lee was when the steelers offered him a 6 year deal for 7 million? does anyone know who he is now? he is the punter for the NFC in the pro bowl and was selected to this years All Pro team (which places him as the best punter in the game this year).

i think the steelers wouldve had to surrender a 7th rounder had the 49ers not matched the offer sheet.

once again, plan A fell through and plan B proves to be not as effective.

im not positive but i think the patriots put a poison pill in the offer sheet to welker that pretty much made it impossible for the dolphins to keep welker. once they realized they were not gonna be able to keep their player out of the patriots hands, they decided to talk trade and get as much as they could get for him and the patriots (in an act of "mercy") removed the poison pill clause from the contract.

the steelers did no such thing when it came to signing andy lee, even though they had every right to do so. the rooneys just dont operate that way, and are actually concerned about the integrity of the league. they are not gonna get into any shady or underhanded business dealing like some other owners are willing to do.

in both cases, the steelers scouted and targeted a relatively unsung or unheard of player right before they broke out and made a name for themselves. while not landing them can be looked at as a failure, recognizing them and targeting them can be looked at as a scouting success.

DACEB
01-23-2008, 11:53 AM
Personally, I don't want Welker. He would be nothing as a receiver ---except for the fear of Randy Moss. He fits the Pats scheme--I truly believe he would not work in ours..

Your right Counselor, why would we want a guy that can basically do it all?? The guy catches almost anything thrown his way, is tough as nails and blocks. Why would we want a guy like that??

You know I'm being sarcastic right? C'mon Counselor, how can you honestly say he would'nt fit our system. He would be a #4 WR anyways, Ced is our #4 WR.

Return man---sure---but when that trade was being pulled off, Reid was still believed to be the guy for the job---the FO couldn't anticipate his fumblitis (remember he was hurt last season) ..

Exactly, Reid was hurt with an injury that left many uncertain about his future. Besides, Welker would have taken Ceds and Reids place. Two for one or one for two!? whatever

Overall we've done well in the draft over the past several years --- '03 Troy, '04 Ben
'05 Heath '06 Santonio. Not a single dud in the first round in 4 years ..

We have not been so successful on day two though, the proof of that shows on STs and the fact that our defensive front seven are almost all over 30.

Counselor, you and Tony have great posts and I respect and appreciate the feedback, always. Tony great points on TJ and Lee, excellent. Thanks guys!