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OneForTheToe
01-27-2008, 12:52 AM
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20080125



The NFL averted a labor war 2 years ago when outgoing commissioner Paul Tagliabue strong-armed the owners into agreeing to a collective-bargaining- agreement extension that gave the players 60 percent of the league's pot of gold. The owners can opt out of the deal in November, which seems almost a certainty right now. If that happens, 2009 would be the last capped year of the current agreement. There would be no salary cap in 2010, but the service requirement for free agency would jump from 4 to 6 years. "I think it's really common knowledge our last labor agreement is not our smartest move," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen told Jeff Legwold, of the Rocky Mountain News. "And I'm not talking about [just] the Denver Broncos. I'm talking about the [whole] league. We can't live with this deal."




So how will this affect the Steelers? If the owners opt out in November it will be very hard to sign stars after next season since some agents might tell their players that they can get more money in a cap-free world. For this reason, as well as others, Ben has to be signed before the end of next season. The Steelers would have a much harder time signing any of our unsigned free agents, but that would be balanced somewhat by the fact that some of out younger players ( like Woodley, Timmons) would not be free agents as soon.

So, I guess, in conclusion, the Steelers need a salary cap to compete long term, but I think we will be ok for a year or two as long as we do the best to sign our guys over the next season.

Hold on, I have a feeling it will be a bumpy ride in the league as a whole.

fansince'76
01-27-2008, 01:07 AM
The NFL without a salary cap? That'll be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me, personally. I will no longer watch a league where the Snyders, Joneses and Krafts buy Super Bowls and the rest of the league fights over the table scraps.

Preacher
01-27-2008, 01:10 AM
We will have a cap. I am not worried about that.

It might take a lockout to get one, but we will get a cap.

OneForTheToe
01-27-2008, 01:17 AM
fansince'76, I think there will be cap in the NFL. As a group, NFL owners have shown in the past that they are more league committed than their MLB/NBA counterparts. We may have to suffer through one year without, but I think (hope) that cooler heads prevail. The bigger issue for me is thart this may upset the revenue sharing agreement between the owners. We know from his own words that Mr. Jones hates sharing revenue with his fellow owners. The end of revenue sharing would be the end of the league.

Edman
01-27-2008, 01:36 AM
If the NFL becomes the new MLB, where the big-market teams from the big cities literally buy championships, It will be a sad day in sports. But with the way the NFL has been turning into since Goodell became the commish, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened, as much as it pains me to say it.

LambertIsGod58
01-27-2008, 01:47 AM
If the salary cap goes away...be ready for the 4-12 seasons.

Rhee Rhee
01-27-2008, 01:52 AM
omgosh... no cap is like... insane... i can't imagine a team with the ability to buy any player they want... it would make my greatest fantasies come true... lol...

just imagine... how good our team COULD be if the Rooney's gave up some serious dough for players... shawne merrimen demarcus ware... OMG all on one team... it'd be like pro-bowl every sunday

fansince'76
01-27-2008, 01:58 AM
just imagine... how good our team COULD be if the Rooney's gave up some serious dough for players... shawne merrimen demarcus ware... OMG all on one team... it'd be like pro-bowl every sunday

The Rooneys are multimillionaires. Snyder, Jones, Kraft, Allen and others are multibillionaires. HUGE difference. See where I'm going with this? Like LIG58 said, if the salary cap goes bye-bye, get ready for the 4-12 seasons (and worse). The Rooneys simply aren't wealthy enough and Pittsburgh simply isn't a large enough market to stay competitive in that kind of environment.

OneForTheToe
01-27-2008, 02:19 AM
Well, I think it would still be harder to buy a championship in the NFL than in Baseball, even without a cap. First, it takes more "grunts" to win in football than any other sport. Second, the Yankees make more money with their local broadcasting rights than they do with the national TV contract. The opposite is true in the NFL. The national network revenue would be shared under any situation. Finally, what really kills small markets in baseball is that most of the best players don't come into the league via the draft. Therefore, the worst teams don't neccesarily get first crack at the best prospects

Still, I agree the end of revenue sharing/cap would eventually be the end of the Steelers amazing run of success. However, I still believe we will have a cap eventually, even if there is one year without. Also, it is generally the small market teams, who need rev sharing/cap most, that are pushing for the opt out.

So is there anything the Steelers can do over the next year or two to prepare for an uncapped season?

fansince'76
01-27-2008, 02:21 AM
fansince'76, I think there will be cap in the NFL. As a group, NFL owners have shown in the past that they are more league committed than their MLB/NBA counterparts. We may have to suffer through one year without, but I think (hope) that cooler heads prevail. The bigger issue for me is thart this may upset the revenue sharing agreement between the owners. We know from his own words that Mr. Jones hates sharing revenue with his fellow owners. The end of revenue sharing would be the end of the league.

Yep, the cap may not go away, but revenue sharing going away would be just as harmful to a team like the Steelers:

"There is no correlation between high-revenue teams and winning percentage," McNair said. "And no correlation between salaries paid and winning percentage. We have a good balance in the NFL and the number of teams in the highest payroll quartile are located in the lowest quartile of revenue teams."

What extra cash can do is enable teams to spend their way around the restraints of the salary cap -- at least over the short term -- by restructuring players' contracts by putting cash in the players' pockets in the form of one-time bonuses in exchange for lowering their immediate salary impact against the cap. There is a saying in the league that "cash solves cap," and the NFL's salary cap is a soft ceiling that can be exceeded.

The Redskins finished this season (2004) with a 6-10 record despite a league-record payroll of $120 million.

The NFL's wealthier teams are far from reaching a Yankees-like status in which their financial advantage has translated into a competitive advantage. But Rooney, the Steelers' owner, and others say they are fearful the league may get to that point.

"We're not there yet. Any team can win and does win," said Rooney, whose family has presided over the Steelers for 71 years. "But we might reach a point somewhere down the line where that's not the case any longer."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A57668-2005Jan7?language=printer

What the hell good is a cap that can be circumvented in a league where the revenue disparity between the haves and have-nots widens and widens greatly if revenue sharing goes away? Yeah, you'll have a MLB situation like the Marlins a few years back - win a championship and then have a huge offseason fire sale to get back under the cap. Doesn't matter - a small-market team like the Steelers wouldn't have much shot at them anyway. Either way, a NFL where the Steelers have no chance of being competitive is a NFL I will no longer follow.

MACH1
01-27-2008, 02:50 AM
The Rooneys are multimillionaires. Snyder, Jones, Kraft, Allen and others are multibillionaires. HUGE difference. See where I'm going with this? Like LIG58 said, if the salary cap goes bye-bye, get ready for the 4-12 seasons (and worse). The Rooneys simply aren't wealthy enough and Pittsburgh simply isn't a large enough market to stay competitive in that kind of environment.

Thats it in a nut shell right there.... The Steelers couldn't compete with the New Yorks, Washington and Dallas, ect....Plus the Rooney's are cheap. :stirthepot:

OneForTheToe
01-27-2008, 02:53 AM
Even more reason to sign Ben now. His contract runs through 2009. Can you imagine what he would be worth to Snyder in a cap-free world?

I have no doubt in my mind Snyder would offer him 15 -20 million per year.

That won't happen because we will sign Ben, but it is a scary thought.

OneForTheToe
01-27-2008, 02:55 AM
Plus the Rooney's are cheap. :stirthepot: :chair: :wink02:

LambertIsGod58
01-27-2008, 02:56 AM
I'm hoping that this is all talk at this point....I mean the NFL is the most successful sport in the USA. I think part of that is parity. Why would they go mess with something that could have catostrophic consequences? The league would suffer with no salary cap and if there was no more revenue sharing.

sherlock
01-27-2008, 05:37 AM
The NFL without a salary cap? That'll be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me, personally. I will no longer watch a league where the Snyders, Joneses and Krafts buy Super Bowls and the rest of the league fights over the table scraps.

That`s exactly how it is in soccer in the UK ,and has been for a good few years now.
There`s Man Utd,Chelsea,Arsenal and Liverpool....the rest as you say,fight over the scraps.
For me it has made a wonderful game all rather dull and predictable.Yes you do get the ocassional upsets in individual games,but I can`t remember the last time a team outside of the "top 4" winning a domestic trophy.

Michael Keller
01-27-2008, 06:33 AM
I was a big Pittsburgh Pirate fan . Never ever missed a game ON RADIO growing up. When the strike occured during the middle of the season I walkd away FOREVER, Never came back.

If the NFL goes without the cap I am gone . Gary is right . A league ran by Jones and Snyder and others like them is totally unappealing.

Galax Steeler
01-27-2008, 07:02 AM
The nfl wouldn't be the same I don't see the league without a salry cap.

LambertLunatic
01-27-2008, 07:34 AM
I was a big Pittsburgh Pirate fan . Never ever missed a game ON RADIO growing up. When the strike occured during the middle of the season I walkd away FOREVER, Never came back.


I too was a big Pirates fan. I watched every game on tv or listened on the radio. I'd also go to several games a year. Even when they sucked in the 80's, I watched them. Finally, they started getting a good team in the early 90's with Bonds, Bonilia, Van Slyke, etc. Then I saw that team torn apart by free agency, and gave up on MLB in disgust. I haven't attended, watched on tv, or listened to a game on the radio since Bonds left. If the NFL goes the way of MLB, I'll probably give up on football too. Then I'll have to resort to watching professional chess. :(

Steel Pit
01-27-2008, 07:34 AM
I was a big Pittsburgh Pirate fan . Never ever missed a game ON RADIO growing up. When the strike occured during the middle of the season I walkd away FOREVER, Never came back.

If the NFL goes without the cap I am gone . Gary is right . A league ran by Jones and Snyder and others like them is totally unappealing.

The NFL will eventually follow the trend of this nation, where 10% of the population possess 90% of the wealth. The have and have not scenario will ultimately dictate and abolish the NFL salary cap.

Canada is looking more and more appealing to me. The CFL, yippeeeee! I could root for the Roughriders or the other Roughriders.

Steeldude
01-27-2008, 10:02 AM
should cap how much a player can make.

Steeler in Carolina
01-27-2008, 10:46 AM
I don't see the NFL without a cap. Just a couple of years ago, it was the same deal.

lilyoder6
01-27-2008, 11:31 AM
if the nfl didn't have the cap... there wouldn't be no FA or offseason... the only thing would be the draft.. u would just buy players like the yankees and red sox do in the mlb..

19ward86
01-28-2008, 02:45 PM
believe me, they will talk this out to every owner in the league time after time. i think that if they cant even think of what penalty to give michael vick in 3 months then a decision like this could take a few years. the cap is what makes the NFL so great, no team can have a major advantage over another unless that team crashes and burns itself. to remove the cap would be like merging the NFL and the AFL, crazy talk i tell yea.

BlastFurnace
01-28-2008, 04:41 PM
I was a big Pittsburgh Pirate fan . Never ever missed a game ON RADIO growing up. When the strike occured during the middle of the season I walkd away FOREVER, Never came back.

If the NFL goes without the cap I am gone . Gary is right . A league ran by Jones and Snyder and others like them is totally unappealing.

I'm a Reds fan and every year I know I have no hopes of anything. I still watch, but with no hope of them competing for the World Series.

I have no faith in Goodell to do the right thing. None. But...I do have faith in the owners...such as the Rooney's, Mara's, and some others who still get what it takes to make a league run the right way. I think that Goodell would be happy if the Patriots won every single year.

MasterOfPuppets
01-28-2008, 09:26 PM
with no cap....

steelers = pirates......:shake02:

Rhee Rhee
01-29-2008, 03:23 AM
with no cap....

steelers = pirates......:shake02:

worse...

steelers = royals

Elvis
01-29-2008, 06:14 AM
The NFL without a salary cap? That'll be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me, personally. I will no longer watch a league where the Snyders, Joneses and Krafts buy Super Bowls and the rest of the league fights over the table scraps.
Amen fansince'76
yeah, if this happens the NFL is doomed just like MLB in my opinion.
But I really dont think that the owners will let this happen
:coffee:

Michael Keller
01-29-2008, 08:36 AM
I wrote my post several days ago and I just reread the other posts again and Ii am so pissed off about just the thought of of the cap removal and/or the changes in revenue sharing. Jerry Jones' ugly and disgusting mug is stuck in my brain . I am tired of owners such as him that are greedy to a point of being sick.

We have many dedciated , intelligent and intense Steeler fans who are members of this forum. I want to suggest that we put our selves on alert that should the possibility of such changes become imminent we do something to manifest our protest.

I think we should have a contingency plan of action. I am just "ideating " but one such course of action is to pick a nationally televised home game be it Monday ,
Sunday or Thursday night where we as fans walk out in the middle of the second quarter and with Heinz field empty at half time that will ive the commntators something to talk about.. We could rally other Franchise's fans such as Buffalo and others.


Come on guys this game is important to us as fans thus it belongs to us too. If the fairness of the game is threatned lets show the country what the STEELER NATION believes . Just knowing you guys will fight for the integrity of the NFL lifts my spirits. I hope we do not get to the point where such action is needed but if action is needed lets not sit back and just "take it " without a fight.

I am also interested in knowing who the "elite owners" are who would be in favor of a no cap no revenue sharing NFL are . Team by team. With Mara gone where do the Giants stand on this issue?

Ideas are appreciated and lets be on the alert.

LambertIsGod58
01-29-2008, 09:01 AM
I honestly think that taking away the salary cap would ultimately hit the NFL in the wallet. I just think that they would lose money. I could be off on that, just MO.

OneForTheToe
01-29-2008, 02:36 PM
One thing I have to repeat: it is not the big owner like Jones and Snyder who are pushing the hardest to reopen the contract, it is some of the smaller to midsize owners, like the owners of the Bungles, Bills, Broncos and others. These owners feel they gave up too much in the last contract. Of course, my concern is that the Joneses will use this opportunity to blowup revenue sharing.

I'd like to know where the Rooneys fall with this issue? Dan Rooney pushed pretty hard to accept this deal. Has he changed his mind?

rbryan
01-29-2008, 02:52 PM
I can see the writing on the wall. I already have Direct TV on speed dial, the minute the Patsies become "the greatest team of all time" I'm going to cancel NFL ticket for next year (not to mention downgrade to the cheapest pkg they have)

Its bad enough the NFL has about the same credibility as the WWF right now. The NFL with no salary cap is something I will have no interest in at all.

The_WARDen
01-29-2008, 04:55 PM
The Rooneys are multimillionaires. Snyder, Jones, Kraft, Allen and others are multibillionaires. HUGE difference. See where I'm going with this? Like LIG58 said, if the salary cap goes bye-bye, get ready for the 4-12 seasons (and worse). The Rooneys simply aren't wealthy enough and Pittsburgh simply isn't a large enough market to stay competitive in that kind of environment.

I don't understand the "Pittsburgh isn't a large enough market" part. Isn't there a 20 year waiting list for season and Heinz field is full. Everyone from Harrisburg and west are Steeler fans and there's a good many even out here in Filthadelphia.

Godfather
01-29-2008, 11:09 PM
fansince'76, I think there will be cap in the NFL. As a group, NFL owners have shown in the past that they are more league committed than their MLB/NBA counterparts. We may have to suffer through one year without, but I think (hope) that cooler heads prevail. The bigger issue for me is thart this may upset the revenue sharing agreement between the owners. We know from his own words that Mr. Jones hates sharing revenue with his fellow owners. The end of revenue sharing would be the end of the league.

Mr. Jones can get bent. He knew the rules when he bought into the league. If he doesn't like it, he can go start his own league.

Edman
01-30-2008, 12:15 PM
worse...

steelers = royals

No, I don't think the Rooneys are as stupid as the Nutcases or Dave Glass. But regardless, yeah, it will still be tough for the Steelers to compete. Pre-70's all over again.