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rabidsteelerfan
03-23-2008, 11:35 AM
You know what, show me Walsh's videotape of the Rams walkthrough or find one other person to varify the tapes existence and I'll believe everything you say. But so far your entire argument is based off the word of some bloke in Hawaii.

But how did it happen that the pats* were fined and lost a draft pick? OOOOOO', that's right.....THEY GOT CAUGHT CHEATING!!!!! I guess those tapes aren't enough to convince you?

Ya know, once those tapes make the light of day, pats* nation will still be in denial and demand that the "reeeal" tapes be shown because those will CLEARLY be doctored!

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-24-2008, 05:09 AM
You know what, show me Walsh's videotape of the Rams walkthrough or find one other person to varify the tapes existence and I'll believe everything you say. But so far your entire argument is based off the word of some bloke in Hawaii.

Actually...no.

My argument is based on Belicheats admission of taping. ...and the subsequent fine and loss of draft pick. Also on the comissioners statements that the cheating started....well...just about the time your team started winning.

What is the second verse to koom-by-ya, by the way?

The Patriot
03-24-2008, 12:54 PM
Actually...no.

My argument is based on Belicheats admission of taping. ...and the subsequent fine and loss of draft pick. Also on the comissioners statements that the cheating started....well...just about the time your team started winning.

What is the second verse to koom-by-ya, by the way?

Well if that's the taint you're reffering to then I'd agree. I was talking about the walkthrough accusation which would be an entirely different level of cheating all together.

Yeah we got caught and punished and now we'll be forced to live with the fact that the largest number of games we could win in a season without sideline tapes is 18.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-24-2008, 01:23 PM
Well if that's the taint you're reffering to then I'd agree. I was talking about the walkthrough accusation which would be an entirely different level of cheating all together.

Yeah we got caught and punished and now we'll be forced to live with the fact that the largest number of games we could win in a season without sideline tapes is 18.

myopic point of view considering that the Patriots admitted to cheating in several playoff games..

....I think its more telling that you couldnt win the big one without cheating, which tells me that your Lombardies are hollow chocolate bunnies.

stlrtruck
03-24-2008, 01:38 PM
....I think its more telling that you couldnt win the big one without cheating, which tells me that your Lombardies are hollow chocolate bunnies.

How dare you LLT, compare the deliciousness of easter hollow bunnies to the tainted and tarnished silver paper weights that reside with the patriots*?

stlrtruck
03-24-2008, 02:51 PM
I've figured out why the NFL and the commissioner are dragging feet in settling this issue with Matt Walsh and to clear the air of all this SPYGATE.

They are waiting for the draft to be over to the patriots* can have the 49ers early pick and make up for the lost players via FA. Then after the draft you will see a quick resolution to the legal matter, Mr. Walsh's tapes will be on the commish's desk - post haste, and then Mr. Kraft's pocket puppet Roger Goodell will be forced to impose additional fines to the patriots*

The Patriot
03-24-2008, 05:16 PM
I've figured out why the NFL and the commissioner are dragging feet in settling this issue with Matt Walsh and to clear the air of all this SPYGATE.

They are waiting for the draft to be over to the patriots* can have the 49ers early pick and make up for the lost players via FA. Then after the draft you will see a quick resolution to the legal matter, Mr. Walsh's tapes will be on the commish's desk - post haste, and then Mr. Kraft's pocket puppet Roger Goodell will be forced to impose additional fines to the patriots*

They can't take away the 49ers pick because its not an actual pick. We traded that for another pick which we had traded for Branch. That pick basically counts as a player and if you're going to punish a team by taking away a player, why should it be one who is just entering the league?

The Patriot
03-24-2008, 05:34 PM
myopic point of view considering that the Patriots admitted to cheating in several playoff games..

....I think its more telling that you couldnt win the big one without cheating, which tells me that your Lombardies are hollow chocolate bunnies.

So what you're telling me is that sideline videotapes would have only helped us enough to stop a behind-the-head catch by Tyree? Seems like a pretty minor advantage to me.

revefsreleets
03-24-2008, 06:15 PM
So what you're telling me is that sideline videotapes would have only helped us enough to stop a behind-the-head catch by Tyree? Seems like a pretty minor advantage to me.

I'm pretty sure that was hard empirical data that God actually exists.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-25-2008, 04:56 AM
So what you're telling me is that sideline videotapes would have only helped us enough to stop a behind-the-head catch by Tyree? Seems like a pretty minor advantage to me.

Well ...yea....One has to wonder if Tyree would have even been open or would he have had an additional DB or LB on him if the defense been given the play as they have in the past.

...obviously a major advantage..(at least enough to win ...say...three illigitimate Superbowls)

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 07:41 AM
Well ...yea....One has to wonder if Tyree would have even been open or would he have had an additional DB or LB on him if the defense been given the play as they have in the past.

...obviously a major advantage..(at least enough to win ...say...three illigitimate Superbowls)

We had double coverage on him. I believe in the god statement more because had there been a slight shift in the breeze we wouldn't be arguing this.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-25-2008, 07:50 AM
We had double coverage on him. I believe in the god statement more because had there been a slight shift in the breeze we wouldn't be arguing this.

:dang:I think you missed the point...IF your team was allowed to keep cheating...it WOULD have given you the edge to win another hollow trophy.

Galax Steeler
03-25-2008, 08:10 AM
:dang:I think you missed the point...IF your team was allowed to keep cheating...it WOULD have given you the edge to win another hollow trophy.

:sofunny::sofunny: nice

stlrtruck
03-25-2008, 08:28 AM
They can't take away the 49ers pick because its not an actual pick. We traded that for another pick which we had traded for Branch. That pick basically counts as a player and if you're going to punish a team by taking away a player, why should it be one who is just entering the league?

Regardless of how they acquired the pick, it is now the patriots* draft pick. The commissioner can do with as he pleases with it. He has choosen to go light on the patriots* which leads many others to believe he may be in bed wth Kraft.

MACH1
03-25-2008, 11:45 AM
This will be the standard headset for cheatriots* starting the 2008 season.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/fruitionautomation/Belichick.jpg

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 04:21 PM
Regardless of how they acquired the pick, it is now the patriots* draft pick. The commissioner can do with as he pleases with it. He has choosen to go light on the patriots* which leads many others to believe he may be in bed wth Kraft.

Why would the commissioner exceedingly punish this team when there is maybe ten players left from the 2001 team? If Belichick did tape the walkthrough then the right thing to do would be to suspend or expel him or anyone else responsible and move on. That was 2001. It's 2008 now. Somebody like Maroney was still in highschool when the alleged taping occured.

But I don't think Belichick taped the walkthrough so this argument is pointless.

tony hipchest
03-25-2008, 04:37 PM
But I don't think Belichick taped the walkthrough so this argument is pointless.i think he did tape so this argument has all the merit in the world. :flap:

rbryan
03-25-2008, 04:46 PM
Too bad, besides this more about punishing the arrogant jackass fans in patsieland, the majority of which crawled out from under a rock in the last several years.

I have no problem with punishing anyone remotely affiliated with the cheaters past or present. They were caught cheating this year too in case you've forgotten already, no reason to believe they ever stopped cheating at any point since Bellichick has been there. Whatever happens from this point is icing on the cake.

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Too bad, besides this more about punishing the arrogant jackass fans in patsieland, the majority of which crawled out from under a rock in the last several years.

I have no problem with punishing anyone remotely affiliated with the cheaters past or present. They were caught cheating this year too in case you've forgotten already, no reason to believe they ever stopped cheating at any point since Bellichick has been there. Whatever happens from this point is icing on the cake.

They got caught videotaping sidelines. Big whoop. Every coach knows that each game he's 50 yards away from his opponent and everything his opponent sees from 50 yards away is fair game. Belichick took it to another level by introducing a camera. I'm not saying that's right but it's sure not far from plain old observation and jotted notes.

I'm just saying that if you're a coach and you're signal for a "house blitze" is tapping your head twice and holding up two fingers; fine. But if you intend to use that same signal, unchanged, over the length of a season and you end up playing the same team again and they've figured out what that signal means by then; deal with it.

rbryan
03-25-2008, 05:31 PM
Keep telling yourself that.

Too bad for you the NFL doesn't see it that way. Remember the big fine and the loss of a draft pick? Buckle up the rides not over.

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 05:36 PM
Keep telling yourself that.

Too bad for you the NFL doesn't see it that way. Remember the big fine and the loss of a draft pick? Buckle up the rides not over.

That penalty was influenced over the five days it pended. Five days filled with the bitches and moans of every single team the Patriots ever beat.

rbryan
03-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Thats why I won't stop bitching till the ship goes all the way down. Your boys cheated and you know it. Even if you don't everyone else does.

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 10:03 PM
Thats why I won't stop bitching till the ship goes all the way down. Your boys cheated and you know it. Even if you don't everyone else does.

Well, you're pretty good at bitching, I'll give you that. :cheers:

MasterOfPuppets
03-25-2008, 10:54 PM
here's the funny part....if the G - MEN got caught next year doin the same thing, and the pats had never been caught...pats fans sure would be whistling a different tune!!!!......
they cheated us in the superbowl....:crying01:.....:blah:

NJarhead
03-25-2008, 10:56 PM
here's the funny part....if the G - MEN got caught next year doin the same thing, and the pats had never been caught...pats fans sure would be whistling a different tune!!!!......
they cheated us in the superbowl....:crying01:.....:blah:

ain't THAT the truth!

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 10:59 PM
here's the funny part....if the G - MEN got caught next year doin the same thing, and the pats had never been caught...pats fans sure would be whistling a different tune!!!!......
they cheated us in the superbowl....:crying01:.....:blah:

And if the Steelers were the ones cheating, your present stance would remain unchanged?

The Patriot
03-25-2008, 11:02 PM
To further that, had the Patriots been caught cheating in the upcoming season instead of last season you guys would be saying that Brady could never throw more than 15 TDs without the benefit of a camera and the only reason our offense broke the points record was because of an unfair advantage. I bet you would have loved to write those ones off.

MasterOfPuppets
03-25-2008, 11:03 PM
And if the Steelers were the ones cheating, your present stance would remain unchanged?
not at all.....some fans have morals and standards.....i would no longer BE a steeler fan. go look at the thread concerning harrisons conduct, and you'll see probably 90 % of the fans here think he should be cut. i bet you wouldn't see that on to many other team boards.

rbryan
03-25-2008, 11:39 PM
Well, you're pretty good at bitching, I'll give you that. :cheers:

Did I come looking for you?? You're the one who came here with your rhetoric. If I come to a patsie board then you can complain about my bitching.

The Patriot
03-26-2008, 06:28 AM
not at all.....some fans have morals and standards.....i would no longer BE a steeler fan. go look at the thread concerning harrisons conduct, and you'll see probably 90 % of the fans here think he should be cut. i bet you wouldn't see that on to many other team boards.

Wow, you'd hop ships just like that?
Even if Belichick is guilty, no one bad coach or owner would ever stop me from being a Patriots fan. You're comparing chastising a player for misconduct with abondoning a franchise all together. That's a complete load of bullshit. :sofunny:

Well, whatever happens, I'll still be a Patriots fan at the end of it. To bad Pittsburgh couldn't attain such loyalty from you.

MasterOfPuppets
03-26-2008, 10:28 AM
Wow, you'd hop ships just like that?
Even if Belichick is guilty, no one bad coach or owner would ever stop me from being a Patriots fan. You're comparing chastising a player for misconduct with abondoning a franchise all together. That's a complete load of bullshit. :sofunny:

Well, whatever happens, I'll still be a Patriots fan at the end of it. To bad Pittsburgh couldn't attain such loyalty from you.well its pretty simple, i don't root for cheats, and i would NOT root for a team that has an owner that stands by a KNOWN cheater, and condones his cheating. as i said, some people have morals.

steeler43pa
03-26-2008, 12:36 PM
To further that, had the Patriots been caught cheating in the upcoming season instead of last season you guys would be saying that Brady could never throw more than 15 TDs without the benefit of a camera and the only reason our offense broke the points record was because of an unfair advantage. I bet you would have loved to write those ones off.


They still had the benefits of the tapes Belicheat has at his home office. Wait till this season. You'll see how good that 6th rounder really is.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-26-2008, 12:54 PM
Even if Belichick is guilty,


psssssst....come her....listen ....just between you and me....BELICHEAT ADMITTED HIS GUILT!!!!:dang::dang::dang:

Well, whatever happens, I'll still be a Patriots fan at the end of it. To bad Pittsburgh couldn't attain such loyalty from you

If the ruler for loyalty was.... ignoring facts....deflecting truth...and backing a cheater...YOU DA MAN!!!!

By the way...Elvis is dead...O.J. is NOT looking for the killer on the golf courses...and the Patriots cheated their way to tainted illusion of a "dynasty"

Accept these things...and take your meds.

Good boy.

You may go now.:wave:

stlrtruck
03-26-2008, 03:38 PM
Why would the commissioner exceedingly punish this team when there is maybe ten players left from the 2001 team? If Belichick did tape the walkthrough then the right thing to do would be to suspend or expel him or anyone else responsible and move on. That was 2001. It's 2008 now. Somebody like Maroney was still in highschool when the alleged taping occured.

But I don't think Belichick taped the walkthrough so this argument is pointless.

First, we have to realize that belichick wouldn't tape the practice, he would have an assistant - Matt Walsh anyone - do it for him. That way belichick would have all deniability.

As for punishing the players on the team currently. Guilt by association. It's only a punishment to the players because the organization that cheated is getting punished.

It would be the same as saying a college can't give a new kid a scholarship because the school cheated 6 years ago and finally got caught.

stlrtruck
03-26-2008, 03:40 PM
They got caught videotaping sidelines. Big whoop. Every coach knows that each game he's 50 yards away from his opponent and everything his opponent sees from 50 yards away is fair game. Belichick took it to another level by introducing a camera. I'm not saying that's right but it's sure not far from plain old observation and jotted notes.

I'm just saying that if you're a coach and you're signal for a "house blitze" is tapping your head twice and holding up two fingers; fine. But if you intend to use that same signal, unchanged, over the length of a season and you end up playing the same team again and they've figured out what that signal means by then; deal with it.

Doing it from the sideline, with a naked eye is one thing. Using videotape from an illegal position on the field and maintaining files on teams goes behind the integrity of the game - oh wait we are talking about the patriots* and we know the level of integrity (LOL) they have!

stlrtruck
03-26-2008, 03:42 PM
And if the Steelers were the ones cheating, your present stance would remain unchanged?

I certainly wouldn't be defending the coaches or owners actions!! Seems like a lot of patriots* fans are trying to defend belichick and kraft's actions...

The Patriot
03-26-2008, 03:56 PM
Response to all of you:

I'm not defending Belichick's actions, I'm defending his innocence. If it turns out Walsh really did tape the Ram's walkthrough, I'll want him gone. But I'm not going to believe Walsh taped the walkthrough just because he said he did. Show me some evidence and I'm sold.

Belichick admit to having assistance videotape other team's sidelines from the Patriots sideline. Since this is a violation of the rules punishment should have been dealt, which it was, but that's far from a damnable offense. Walkthroughs are a different story. Just don't act like Cowher, blissfully unsuspecting, had is playbook written in bold letters on a five by eight foot piece of cardboard.

steeler43pa
03-26-2008, 04:16 PM
And if the Steelers were the ones cheating, your present stance would remain unchanged?


I would stop being a fan of the Coach and the organization that backs him being the one that cheated. However think about it. The Rooneys and the Steeler organization would never do such a thing. They are smarter than that. They want this cheating scandel to go away like the rest of the Owners. I'm sure though behind closed doors they would just as well want Kraft* and Belicheat* to be banned. You Pat* fans never cease to amaze me at your ignorance to this situation. You back someone that has caused your team to be the laughing stock of the NFL world.

stlrtruck
03-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Response to all of you:

I'm not defending Belichick's actions, I'm defending his innocence. If it turns out Walsh really did tape the Ram's walkthrough, I'll want him gone. But I'm not going to believe Walsh taped the walkthrough just because he said he did. Show me some evidence and I'm sold.

Belichick admit to having assistance videotape other team's sidelines from the Patriots sideline. Since this is a violation of the rules punishment should have been dealt, which it was, but that's far from a damnable offense. Walkthroughs are a different story. Just don't act like Cowher, blissfully unsuspecting, had is playbook written in bold letters on a five by eight foot piece of cardboard.

The damnable offense is this:

A - He tried to shove it under the rug as a one time offense during the first game of the year and it's been going on since 2000.

B - His so called "misinterpretation" of the NFL guidelines was a crock

C - He's not one bit remorseful for the shame he's brought to the league

Damn belichick, kraft, and the patriots* (past, present, and future)

MACH1
03-26-2008, 04:56 PM
The damnable offense is this:

A - He tried to shove it under the rug as a one time offense during the first game of the year and it's been going on since 2000.

B - His so called "misinterpretation" of the NFL guidelines was a crock

C - He's not one bit remorseful for the shame he's brought to the league

Damn belichick, kraft, and the patriots* (past, present, and future)

Why is it beliprick is the only one in the nfl that has a reading comprehension problem? I don't think he is that dumb or is he. I wish I could use that excuse to get out of things.

polamalu82
03-26-2008, 07:00 PM
Response to all of you:

I'm not defending Belichick's actions, I'm defending his innocence. If it turns out Walsh really did tape the Ram's walkthrough, I'll want him gone. But I'm not going to believe Walsh taped the walkthrough just because he said he did. Show me some evidence and I'm sold.

Belichick admit to having assistance videotape other team's sidelines from the Patriots sideline. Since this is a violation of the rules punishment should have been dealt, which it was, but that's far from a damnable offense. Walkthroughs are a different story. Just don't act like Cowher, blissfully unsuspecting, had is playbook written in bold letters on a five by eight foot piece of cardboard.

I'm not defending Belichick's actions, I'm defending his innocence.

Patriots* fans are always saying " they're innocent till proven guilty". THEY ALREADY WERE PROVEN GUILTY!!!!!! This is why Walsh has credibility.

Since this is a violation of the rules punishment should have been dealt, which it was, but that's far from a damnable offense.

Cheating not a damnable offense? You'll only hear this from a Pats* fan.

Just don't act like Cowher, blissfully unsuspecting, had is playbook written in bold letters on a five by eight foot piece of cardboard.

No he didn't. No team does. Which is why Belichick had his guy taping the defensive hand signals. When you can go back through a video of teams defensive signals, you have a huge advantage.

The Patriot
03-26-2008, 09:41 PM
No he didn't. No team does. Which is why Belichick had his guy taping the defensive hand signals. When you can go back through a video of teams defensive signals, you have a huge advantage.

Change the signals. You should be doing that anyway over the course of a season, sometimes even a game. When I played football, I'd always listen to what the other team was shouting and then note the following play so that if I heard them shout it again, I'd have an idea of what was coming. If you're gonna tell me that that's wrong and that you never did that then you're an idiot. Belichick just took a common practice among players and coaches and introduced a camera.

Did it give him an advantage? Yeah it gave him an advantage for deciphering signals but don't start whining because your coach only had pen and paper.

stlrtruck
03-27-2008, 09:53 AM
Change the signals. You should be doing that anyway over the course of a season, sometimes even a game. When I played football, I'd always listen to what the other team was shouting and then note the following play so that if I heard them shout it again, I'd have an idea of what was coming. If you're gonna tell me that that's wrong and that you never did that then you're an idiot. Belichick just took a common practice among players and coaches and introduced a camera.

Did it give him an advantage? Yeah it gave him an advantage for deciphering signals but don't start whining because your coach only had pen and paper.

If you, as a player on the field, can hear signals and remember them for the next time you're on the field, then that's good for you (or any player that can do that). I have no problem with players doing that - John Lynch admitted to it playing in denver when playing the bucs that he remembered the call and knew it was going to Alstott which he properly filled the hole. The difference is that belichick had videos and notes before the game even began. Therefore he had pre-game knowledge of alignments, which his coordinators in the booth could recognize, call down to the appropriate coach and signal in a different play depending on what he saw.

I'm not whining that my coach only had pen and paper. The coaches are only suppose to have pen and paper - the NFL RULES state such things. But to the contrary patriots* and their fans think that what belichick did was commendable and is alright - why? Because it brought them three SB trophies in the process.

However, let's see what good ole brian can do without the videos and notes. Does anyone remember his debut in clown town?

I have faith that kraft, belichick, the patriots*, and their fans are going to get their just desserts when the dust finally settles!!!

stlrtruck
03-27-2008, 09:55 AM
Why is it beliprick is the only one in the nfl that has a reading comprehension problem? I don't think he is that dumb or is he. I wish I could use that excuse to get out of things.

I call your attention to his first run as head coach in cleveland - he wasn't exactly shining trophies there.

The Patriot
03-27-2008, 06:27 PM
If you, as a player on the field, can hear signals and remember them for the next time you're on the field, then that's good for you (or any player that can do that). I have no problem with players doing that - John Lynch admitted to it playing in denver when playing the bucs that he remembered the call and knew it was going to Alstott which he properly filled the hole. The difference is that belichick had videos and notes before the game even began. Therefore he had pre-game knowledge of alignments, which his coordinators in the booth could recognize, call down to the appropriate coach and signal in a different play depending on what he saw.

I'm not whining that my coach only had pen and paper. The coaches are only suppose to have pen and paper - the NFL RULES state such things. But to the contrary patriots* and their fans think that what belichick did was commendable and is alright - why? Because it brought them three SB trophies in the process.

However, let's see what good ole brian can do without the videos and notes. Does anyone remember his debut in clown town?

I have faith that kraft, belichick, the patriots*, and their fans are going to get their just desserts when the dust finally settles!!!

He did not have pregame knowledge. He had knowledge of hand signals used in past games. Knowing a team's hand signals from a previous game does not get you three Superbowls. Why? One hand signals can be easily changed over the course of a season. Two hand signals are not used to call every play. They are often used to change defensive plays if the coaches don't like what they see but by then the offensive has already chosen its play.

NJarhead
03-27-2008, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by The Patriot
He did not have pregame knowledge. He had knowledge of hand signals used in past games. Knowing a team's hand signals from a previous game does not get you three Superbowls. Why? One hand signals can be easily changed over the course of a season. Two hand signals are not used to call every play. They are often used to change defensive plays if the coaches don't like what they see but by then the offensive has already chosen its play.


Do we really know EXACTLY what he had? Obviously, he thought it important enough to collect this information. Let's add to that, that the level of competetion in the NFL is usually pretty close. So much so that only a slight advantage (such as knowing one defensive call, or if one play is run or pass) is needed. Let's go further and note that each of the Patriots SB victories was won by last minute FG's (whereas their most recent SB loss came following spygate when BB no longer had said advantage).

The Patriot
03-27-2008, 08:21 PM
Do we really know EXACTLY what he had? Obviously, he thought it important enough to collect this information. Let's add to that, that the level of competetion in the NFL is usually pretty close. So much so that only a slight advantage (such as knowing one defensive call, or if one play is run or pass) is needed. Let's go further and note that each of the Patriots SB victories was won by last minute FG's (whereas their most recent SB loss came following spygate when BB no longer had said advantage).

Look, I think we've come to the consensus that players and coaches are always trying to get inside their opponents head. Belichick used a camera, thereby cheating.

Here's what I believe. The videotape served more as a convenience than an unfair advantage because you do not need it to do what the Patriots were doing. If the opposing defensive coach taps his head twice and holds up two fingers, you can easily have an assistant jot down; "2x head tap, 4 fingers, 2nd and 5, 3.42 3rd Q." That's as much information that was on the tapes and all Belichick would need to go back through the game film and match it with the proceding play. Yet this is completely legal. If that's the line between fairplay and cheating then it's a severe understatement to claim Belichick crossed it.

NJarhead
03-27-2008, 08:35 PM
Look, I think we've come to the consensus that players and coaches are always trying to get inside their opponents head. Belichick used a camera, thereby cheating.

Here's what I believe. The videotape served more as a convenience than an unfair advantage because you do not need it to do what the Patriots were doing. If the opposing defensive coach taps his head twice and holds up two fingers, you can easily have an assistant jot down; "2x head tap, 4 fingers, 2nd and 5, 3.42 3rd Q." That's as much information that was on the tapes and all Belichick would need to go back through the game film and match it with the proceding play. Yet this is completely legal. If that's the line between fairplay and cheating then it's a severe understatement to claim Belichick crossed it.

For the record - I don't think it's as huge as it's being made out, however I'm only going on what we all know and that may be very little. If all we know is all there is then who cares. If there is more then I have a problem with it.

As far as reviewing the legal game tapes I'm pretty sure the signals or any other pertinant sideline activities are excluded from them.

BB was cataloging everything he could collect about this opponents, which to me is basic and smart, but not legal.

Like the chick in the Terminator said, "In a hundred years who's gonna care?"

The Patriot
03-27-2008, 09:47 PM
Like the chick in the Terminator said, "In a hundred years who's gonna care?"

Football fans have long memories. I still hate the Yankees and I've forgotten why.

tony hipchest
03-27-2008, 09:54 PM
Look, I think we've come to the consensus that players and coaches are always trying to get inside their opponents head. Belichick used a camera, thereby cheating.

Here's what I believe. The videotape served more as a convenience than an unfair advantage because you do not need it to do what the Patriots were doing. If the opposing defensive coach taps his head twice and holds up two fingers, you can easily have an assistant jot down; "2x head tap, 4 fingers, 2nd and 5, 3.42 3rd Q." That's as much information that was on the tapes and all Belichick would need to go back through the game film and match it with the proceding play. Yet this is completely legal. If that's the line between fairplay and cheating then it's a severe understatement to claim Belichick crossed it.wow. i woulda never guessed that it was that simple and cut and dry.

i guess it takes less than a moron to figure out these hand signals then-


:thumbsup:.......:flipoff:........:jammin:



:sofunny:

NJarhead
03-27-2008, 10:02 PM
Football fans have long memories. I still hate the Yankees and I've forgotten why.

With Pedro gone, it's not as easy to hate the Red Sox...., But I try!

You forgot why because the Sox finally won it all....twice.

...I just remembered why I hate them; I have a "1918" hat that no longer serves a purpose.

The Patriot
03-27-2008, 10:36 PM
wow. i woulda never guessed that it was that simple and cut and dry.

i guess it takes less than a moron to figure out these hand signals then-


:thumbsup:.......:flipoff:........:jammin:



:sofunny:
strong side blitz?

tony hipchest
03-28-2008, 10:11 AM
strong side blitz?

:dang: damn! now i gotta change em up.

BettisFan
03-29-2008, 11:49 PM
Just wanna sum this thread up (mabey leading to an end)
Pats Suck
We all hate them!
Have a great night!

Go Steelers!!

stlrtruck
03-31-2008, 09:52 AM
He did not have pregame knowledge. He had knowledge of hand signals used in past games. Knowing a team's hand signals from a previous game does not get you three Superbowls. Why? One hand signals can be easily changed over the course of a season. Two hand signals are not used to call every play. They are often used to change defensive plays if the coaches don't like what they see but by then the offensive has already chosen its play.

He had a freakin' video tape of those signals! It would be easy to remember them when I've got them on tape and can watch that tape the week before the game. Let alone he could see formations aligned with hand signals so if the signals change but the formations don't - BINGO we've got a cheater!!!!

But please continue with your Blue&Red colored glasses - that your coach is infallible and could do no wrong.

fansince'76
03-31-2008, 09:56 AM
Die thread! Die!

tony hipchest
03-31-2008, 01:43 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/03/30/2008-03-30_belichick_under_scope_at_nfl_meetings.html

Belichick under scope at NFL meetings
Sunday, March 30th 2008, 4:00 AM

So many people will be looking at Patriots coach and former genius Bill Belichick this week that he may feel like they are spying on him, of all the crazy things.

I'm surprised Belichick will be at the NFL meetings, which open Sunday in Palm Beach, Fla., considering the SpyGate scandal just won't go away and so much of the discussion this week — in front of Belichick — is going to focus on it.

Roger Goodell has come up with some new policies for the owners to discuss to crack down on cheating.

At least give Belichick credit for showing up for what is going to be an uncomfortable four days for him among the coaches, general managers and owners, some of whom have been critical of him.

Goodell interviewed Belichick only on the phone before he fined him $500,000 in September, and they were in each other's presence just once since then, at the Patriots-Giants game the final weekend of the regular season at Giants Stadium.

Belichick didn't attend the combine last month, so this will be the first time he is among all his peers since SpyGate was uncovered in the season opener last year against the Jets. He's doing the right thing by showing his face and subjecting himself to whatever heat comes his way. Still, I don't anticipate Belichick and Eric Mangini having lunch by the pool or sharing an umbrella on the beach.

One executive from another team who likes Belichick is disgusted by his blatant breaking of the rules by videotaping defensive signals. It didn't start with the Jets game last year — he's been doing it for years — but it probably ended there.

"Wrong is wrong. We are all making a good living in the game we love, in the business we chose. But that's biting the hand that feeds you," the executive said. "When you mess around with Sunday and the credibility of the game, that's terrible. You can't ever hurt the credibility for what Sunday is. If you lose that with the fans, you've lost everything. Cheating is cheating, and in-season cheating takes on a new life."

Belichick's reputation has taken a beating, and it could get worse if the NFL ever works out a deal to speak with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh, who is said to have videotape of the Rams' walkthrough the day before the Super Bowl six years ago.

Even if Walsh has nothing, Belichick's three Super Bowl victories are tainted unless it's proven he did not video-spy to help him prepare for those games or spy during the game itself.

And in the Super Bowl loss to the Giants, he was badly outcoached by Tom Coughlin. One coaching source wonders if Tom Brady played his worst Super Bowl because Belichick didn't have the benefit of the information from video spying.

"I like Belichick and I feel bad because the guy is arguably the greatest coach who ever coached," the executive said. "His year is marred by the greatest upset in Super Bowl history coupled by SpyGate. He had arguably the greatest team ever and lost in the Super Bowl. What a crushing blow."


:rofl:

"We all have a stupid moment," he said. "Hopefully, that was a stupid moment.

:rofl:

"Bill is not a real likable guy, so it doesn't take much to get people to pile on,"

:rofl:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
04-01-2008, 01:07 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_559980.html


NFL's Goodell awaits evidence of spying
By Scott Brown
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, April 1, 2008

PALM BEACH, Fla. -- NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said he was "very anxious" to meet with Matt Walsh, a former Patriots employee who has claimed he has more evidence that New England illegally taped videotaped opponents.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said he feels the same way.

:jerkit: "I'm looking forward to (Walsh) speaking and hopefully cleaning this up and completely exonerating us :jerkit:," Kraft said Monday at the NFL owners meetings.

Kraft said Walsh, who left the Patriots in 2003, never signed a confidentiality agreement with the team. He questioned why the former New England videographer has yet to agree to speak with Goodell.

"He has asked for some considerations," Goodell said of Walsh. "We have met with over 50 people and he's the only one that had indicated that he has conditions. We are trying to respect that."

Goodell fined the Patriots $250,000 and coach Bill Belichick $500,000 last season after he determined that New England had illegally videotaped the New York Jets' sideline during a game. He also docked the Patriots one of their first-round picks in the upcoming draft for the incident that has become known as "Spygate."

The topic has remained a hot one in the NFL because of Sen. Arlen Specter, who questioned why the NFL destroyed all of the evidence it gathered in the case, and because of Walsh's allegations.

Goodell said he had not spoken with Specter recently. He said he was frustrated that he hasn't had a chance to talk with Walsh yet.

"He has indicated or implied through the media that he may have information that I'm not aware of," Goodell said. "If he has either a tape or information that would be helpful, I would be eager to get it."

stlrtruck
04-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Belichick: No New Spygate Revelations

http://www.rr.com/flash/index.cfm?rev=10323&division=279

By DAVE GOLDBERG - AP Football Writer

PALM BEACH, Fla.(AP) Bill Belichick insists there are no new revelations to come about Spygate.

"I think they've addressed everything they possibly can address," the New England Patriots coach said Tuesday.

Belichick, speaking during the AFC coaches breakfast at the NFL meetings, said he was interviewed again after the Super Bowl about allegations that former team employee Matt Walsh had illegal tapes. Those tapes presumably included a walkthrough by the St. Louis Rams on the day before the 2002 Super Bowl, a game the Patriots won.

"I've addressed so many questions so many times from so many people I don't know what else the league could ask," Belichick said.

Commissioner Roger Goodell confirmed that the NFL spoke again with Belichick and other Patriots employees after last January's Super Bowl loss to the New York Giants. The league has been negotiating an agreement with Walsh that it hopes will get Walsh, a golf pro in Hawaii, to come forward with what he has.

"We followed up on other things because certain things had been tossed out," Goodell said of the added round of interviews with Belichick and other members of the Patriots front office.

This was the first time anyone disclosed that Belichick and other Patriots staffers were reinterviewed after the Super Bowl, when the Walsh allegations surfaced. The first interviews actually came the day before the Super Bowl with player personnel director Scott Pioli; Stacey James, the team's vice president for media relations; and video director Jimmy Dee.

League officials subsequently interviewed owner Robert Kraft and Belichick, as he disclosed on Tuesday. "I talked to four or five people," Belichick said, although he did not say if it was in person or by telephone.

Spygate developed after the first game of the season, when tapes of the New York Jets' defensive signals were confiscated from a Patriots employee on the sideline. Belichick was fined $500,000, the team was fined $250,000 and was stripped of its first-round draft choice.

The Patriots ended up becoming the first team to finish the regular season 16-0. They won two playoff games, but were upset 17-14 in the Super Bowl by the Giants.

The Walsh allegations came out two days before that title game, although Belichick said they weren't a distraction in the game. And he vehemently denied the Patriots taped a Rams walkthrough before that 2002 Super Bowl, which the two-touchdown underdog Patriots won 20-17.

"I've never seen a tape of another team's practice. Ever!" he said Tuesday. "Certainly not that one."

But Spygate hasn't gone away.

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., got himself involved, met with Goodell, and suggested the Patriots might have taped the Philadelphia Eagles before the 2005 Super Bowl. New England won that game 24-21.

Specter also questioned why the tapes confiscated from the Jets game were destroyed after the Patriots were penalized. The league said there was no reason to keep them.

In addition, Walsh, through his lawyer, Michael Levy, has been negotiating with the NFL for legal protection if he comes forward to tell what he knows. Levy and the league reported three weeks ago that they were close to an agreement to do that, but talks have been sporadic since.

Belichick insisted Tuesday that nothing will be disclosed on any new tapes. "I barely knew Matt Walsh," he said. "He was hired before I became the coach."

He conceded he should have contacted Ray Anderson, the NFL's vice president for football operations, after a memo from Anderson in 2006 that laid down the specifications for intelligence gathering.

"What I should have done ... I should have called the league and asked for a clarification," he said. "That was my mistake."
He said that in one respect, Spygate did the Patriots a favor.

"We've taken it as a positive and reorganized our operations to make sure a situation like this never comes up again," he said. "Our operation is more efficient, more streamlined. Look at the results of this season. That would confirm it."


1) Yeah, the other things thrown out were all the notes and videos from the previous seasons. Great job Goodell in keeping yourself in Kraft's pocket

2) Isn't that usually how it works that you ask for clarification on a rule before moving forward. How is it that out of 32 coaches, belicheat is the only one to interpret it incorrectly - are we to presume he's oblivious or stupid?

3) Your more streamline and efficient, and OH BEATABLE without the video tapes to help you make second half adjustments.

The Patriot
04-03-2008, 06:39 AM
Belichick: No New Spygate Revelations


3) Your more streamline and efficient, and OH BEATABLE without the video tapes to help you make second half adjustments.

The tapes were never used during the games. How can you uncode 45min to an hour of handsignals in 15min? :wink02:

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-03-2008, 07:06 AM
The tapes were never used during the games. How can you uncode 45min to an hour of handsignals in 15min? :wink02:

You are right....Now it is so clear to me. Belicheats admission of guilt threw me for a second...but now I see it. The *Patriots are so misunderstood

Ted's steroid induced stroke= overcoming the odds
Belicheat's bad sportsmanship= competitive nature
Harrison's suspension= time for thoughtful comtemplation

These Rose colored glasses are great..can I keep them for awhile?

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-03-2008, 07:12 AM
"I've never seen a tape of another team's practice. Ever!" he said Tuesday. "Certainly not that one."

If one had NEVER saw a tape EVER....why would one need to follow up with "certainly not that one"?:tap:

stlrtruck
04-03-2008, 08:30 AM
The tapes were never used during the games. How can you uncode 45min to an hour of handsignals in 15min? :wink02:

You don't have to use them during the games, just take good notes the entire week before the game, and use those notes during the game - then it makes it easy to make adjustments.

But I understand you're still trying to defend the undefendable.

I'll give you an F for effort - because all though your loyalty is commendable, your defense of the actions are not!

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-03-2008, 01:15 PM
The tapes were never used during the games. How can you uncode 45min to an hour of handsignals in 15min? :wink02:

I was coaching a Jr. highschool team and the opposing team had a guy on the opposite side if the field as us (we both are on the same sideline, but separated at the 40yd lines) trying to steal signals and communicate to their booth with an FRS radio, until we alerted officials in the 2nd quarter.

Its probably not that hard to figure out base defenses, coverages and possible blitz signals in a short time. Plus, Belicheat could use tape on the Jets and other divisional opponents as they play 2 times a year.

There were rumours he was doing it in Cleveland when he coached there too.

The Patriot
04-03-2008, 07:04 PM
I was coaching a Jr. highschool team and the opposing team had a guy on the opposite side if the field as us (we both are on the same sideline, but separated at the 40yd lines) trying to steal signals and communicate to their booth with an FRS radio, until we alerted officials in the 2nd quarter.

Its probably not that hard to figure out base defenses, coverages and possible blitz signals in a short time. Plus, Belicheat could use tape on the Jets and other divisional opponents as they play 2 times a year.

There were rumours he was doing it in Cleveland when he coached there too.
You're telling me this exists in Jr. Highschool now?
Yeah, if that had happened to me and highschool and I went and told my coach I'd bet money that he'd jerk my facemask and say, "What the hell are you whining to me for? Go kick his ass!" That's how I learned to play. Less bitching, more hitting.

stlrtruck
04-04-2008, 09:36 AM
You're telling me this exists in Jr. Highschool now?
Yeah, if that had happened to me and highschool and I went and told my coach I'd bet money that he'd jerk my facemask and say, "What the hell are you whining to me for? Go kick his ass!" That's how I learned to play. Less bitching, more hitting.

And while they continue to play the game it's a little difficult to play the game on a level playing field when the offense knows alignments ahead of the play and can call what seems to be the "perfect" play at the "right" time.

Sorry but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - IT MUST BE A DUCK

translation

If it looks like a videotape, plays like a videotape - IT MUST BE CHEATING!!!

fugawzi
04-22-2008, 11:57 AM
cant believe theyve cheated for so long, and appear to be getting away with it