View Full Version : Independent Vermont?

02-15-2008, 09:18 PM
What the heck is this? I've heard about nut-jobs who wanted 2 separate Texas from the US & Quebec from Canada. But never heard about Vermont when I was in the states. :computer: Your opinions please.

Independent Kosovo? Why Not Vermont?


(AP) A man waves with the Albanian flag in preparation for declaration of independence, in Lipjan,...
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Sean Connery thinks a Scottish nation is a bonnie notion. How about Spain's Basque country becoming a REAL country? And what's wrong with a People's Republic of Vermont?

Kosovo's looming independence raises all those questions and more. For starters: Why is statehood OK for some people but frowned on for others? After all, isn't the right to self-determination the essence of democracy itself?

There are at least two dozen secessionist movements active in Europe alone, and scores of others agitating for sovereignty around the globe. All of them, experts warn, will be emboldened by Sunday's expected proclamation of the Republic of Kosovo.

"We live in a world which is based around states," said Florian Bieber, a professor of politics and international relations at England's University of Kent.

"The United Nations is based on states. The European Union is based on states," he said. "It's going to continue to happen. New states will emerge, and states will disappear, like East Germany."

Not all independence movements are created equal.

Some are quirky, such as Second Vermont Republic - Thomas Naylor's small but spirited campaign to break off his corner of northern New England and make it a nation.

With his spectacles, bald spot and long white hair, the retired Duke University economics professor looks like Benjamin Franklin and quotes Thomas Jefferson. He believes that if Kosovo can become a country, so can Vermont, which was independent until it joined the Union in 1791 as the 14th state.

2 continue reading the rest click on http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080215/D8UR1G4O0.html

tony hipchest
02-15-2008, 09:20 PM
theyre from New England. let them declare war so we can kick their ass!

(i suggest the MOAB)

02-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Didn't we already fight a war to decide whether we accept succession?

02-15-2008, 09:32 PM
There are assorted nutjobs in Alaska that were talking about the same thing when I lived up there (and probably still are) and it never happened. Neither will this. The United States as a union is greater than the sum of its parts. Vermont needs the U.S. a whole hell of a lot more than the U.S. needs Vermont, which is precisely why it won't happen. :coffee:

02-15-2008, 09:46 PM
There's no way he'd get the votes from the other 6 resdients of Vermont, two of which are my Aunt and Uncle.

02-16-2008, 04:57 PM
I wonder if there is some way we can blame Canada. It's time to annex our 51st state, and military means work just fine for me...

(for the sarcastically challenged, I keed, I keed)

02-16-2008, 07:47 PM
I don't blame Vermont -- the U.S. runs a balance sheet that looks like one a third world country might have. States' constitutional rights have been slowly diminishing since 1864.

I would recommend reading the book "Crisis and Leviathan" by Robert Higgs.

The union was, initially, on a voluntary basis. When the South seceded, it's not entirely clear but it's possible that they would have been allowed to, if not for the South initiating warfare by attacking Fort Sumter.

Furthermore, the U.S. Constitution does not expressly recognize nor deny the right to secede -- and we all ought know that anything not identified as a federal power is then delegated to be a States' right. The 14th amendment somehow effectively stops states from seceding these days; it doesn't mention secession, but its implementation ended the days where people were citizens of their individual states, and only U.S. "nationals." However, not only does it still not mention secession, the 14th amendment was never properly ratified, and it changes our system of government contrary to the organic constitution. The U.S. Supreme Court WILL NOT hear cases concerning the constitutionality of the 14th amendment, because they would be hard-pressed to not overturn it, and would cause quite a shakeup.

The U.S. is on the decline anyways -- the pinnacle is well in the past, and things are only getting downhill. Vermont would do itself well to secede and get things in order at its own pace now, rather than wait for the implosion.

Dino 6 Rings
02-18-2008, 09:59 AM
nuts...people are just nuts...