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lamberts-lost-tooth
02-24-2008, 12:31 PM
Interesting article...here was the note that blew my mind.


One lineman who didn't really impress was Jeff Otah with his 5.56 40 yd time and only 27 benches. not horrible, but as a 332 pounder he also looks a little soft as well. he is going to need a really good pro day or he will probably drop.

Here is the rest of the article

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2008/combine/notes.htm

Rhee Rhee
02-24-2008, 06:26 PM
i also read somewhere that chris williams ran sub 5.0... i'm not sure of that but i did hear he cemented his status as a 1st rounder

Aussie_steeler
02-25-2008, 12:55 AM
Otah hurt his stock a little with his performance. I am a little scared with him as a prospect in the black and gold.

Going on todays notes another to really hurt their stock was Adarius Bowman WR. He looks like he will free fall from a potential first rounder earlier this year.

Dylan
02-25-2008, 01:14 PM
when is the combine over or did it already end

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-25-2008, 01:34 PM
I think the combine ends on tuesday.

Have to remember that this is just another part of the evaluation process. Watching game film is very important.

Chad Johnson was a first rounder until he ran a 4.55 at the combine and slipped to the second round. Sinorice Moss and Chad Jackson's stock rose when they posted fast 40 times.

Otah's combine doesnt worry me much. Williams combine is good, but the film says he is not a dominant run blocker which doesnt fit the Steelers. Cherilus can run block, but his work says he will be a turnstile with speed rushers. Carl Nicks is a good fit at RT, but a reach at #23.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-25-2008, 01:40 PM
i also read somewhere that chris williams ran sub 5.0... i'm not sure of that but i did hear he cemented his status as a 1st rounder

Chris Williams ran a 5.17...showed up at 6'6...315 lbs...8'7 broadjump and 21 reps on the 225 lbs weights which hurts his stock

tony hipchest
02-26-2008, 09:36 AM
for what its worth, pat kirwan took a call from a steelerfan and said going otah in the 1st and baker in the 2nd would get our line right where it needs to be. kirwan said otah has done nothing to hurt his stock in the combine and if nothing, it was rising and he may not be there for the steelers. some gm's and scouts told him they have otah rated right up there with long.

Maybe it's time the combine evaluations were reevaluated

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story;jsessionid=AEC23E0E286F53C9FFED02D89D691447? id=09000d5d806ce0e2&template=with-video&confirm=true

INDIANAPOLIS -- I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but the NFL Scouting Combine can be a very dangerous event if it is given a priority place in the evaluation of football talent.


Picture a mass of buff 20-somethings in their socks holding x-rays, walking into training rooms and preparing for interview sessions. That is the unseen part of the NFL Scouting Combine. Aside from the on-field drills and press conferences, it is the medical evaluations and interviews occuring in the back hallways that define this annual event. Read More ... All of a sudden there are people all over America interpreting combine results like they can tell what kind of football player a guy can be. I can't tell you how many NFL personnel people and coaches are frustrated with what they are looking at on the field in front of them and in the interview rooms at the combine.

As one long-time NFL executive said this week, "The tests had there place in helping us determine certain traits we were looking for but now the kids rehearse the combine tests so much that it is not the indicator it once was, and the smart football people are discounting the results."

Another coach said he is still laughing about a comment he read from a writer who said a certain player really had to do well on his bench press test to prove he could play defensive tackle in the NFL. I can walk into any decent gym in America and find a guy who can throw up 225 pounds 30 times ... but he can't play football.

In many ways the combine can be a haven for the workout warrior. An underachieving player with great athletic ability can shine and set the bait for a team to overrate him. On the other side of the coin, a hard-working, smart football player with average skills and great production can look downright awful in shorts and have his draft status crumble.

What would be said about a guy like Zack Thomas after a weekend in Indianapolis today? Did the combine process produce an image of Marques Colston as a slow receiver with inconsistent hands?

The whole concept of getting to know the candidates through the interview process has also turned into a caution-flag event. The athletes are so well rehearsed it reminds me of a guy giving a deposition in a pre-trial hearing. The best interviewers in the NFL take the players out of their comfort zone and bring them to an unprepared area.

One smart head coach [bill belichick] turns the lights out the second the kid gets in the room and runs college game tape where the guy is playing poorly. The coach wants to hear what the player has to say about his performance, who is to blame for the problems, and what did he do to improve. Then the player is shown another tape from two weeks later and the coach points out that the player didn't improve at all.

Teams should drill down, if you will, and not waste time asking about the three most important things in the player's life, a question the candidates practice a thousand times. Another head coach I sat in with during an interview kept talking to me and ignored the player until he was uncomfortable. He just waited for the kid to sell himself. Needless to say the young man was not prepared for that approach and failed miserably.

My favorite move of all time was done by Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden. When a quarterback entered his room for an interview, Gruden pushed a desk chair at him and asked the guy to call the toughest play in his college play book, then use the chair as a center, check to another play, and "Let me hear your hard count." The kid couldn't do it. Gruden then told the player, "If I draft you and put you on the field with a huddle full of veterans and you struggle like you just did, they will ask to get you off the field."

Bill Cowher has told me many times that he had a way of talking to a prospect and knowing quickly if the player had what it took to be a Steeler. Apparently his "feel" was effective because most observers would agree the Steelers had a lot of similar traits in their players.

Some clubs just never get a feel for a guy. Not when they take out their questionnaire form in front of a young man who has been to 10 different interviews, and the player just fills in the responses to the standard questions.


The 2008 draft has its fair share of questionable character guys, and letting them skate by with a weak answer isn't good enough when big money is involved at draft time. A lot of teams like to videotape the interviews for further review.

One suggestion I had for a GM who was frustrated with the artificial interview process was to have the players wait to be interviewed and have him play a video game; they might learn more from video taping his behavior during the video game than from the interview itself.

The really smart teams pay very close attention to the medical exam process during the combine. There are a few teams that create a tremendous medical competitive advantage for themselves if they have the right team of doctors on staff.

It's easy to reject players for medical reasons, but a few teams, like the San Diego Chargers, have taken players with injury pasts, when other teams downgraded similar players off their physical exams. The Chargers took cornerback Antonio Cromartie in the first round of the 2006 draft despite him suffering a severe knee injury that forced him to miss his entire junior season at Florida State, his final one with the Seminoles.

As we start hearing all the numbers coming out of Indianapolis this week there's nothing at the combine that measures the following things:

1. Does he have football intelligence?
2. Does a defender have the ability to key and diagnose a situation?
3. Does a defender have the ability to disengage a block?
4. Can a guy tackle?
5. Can he learn and adjust?
6. How does a guy prepare?
7. Can he catch a pass in traffic?
8. Can he really read a coverage?
9. Does he have a counter move?
10. What will he do when you put money in his pocket?

There's no doubt that some player is going to run a 4.4 40-yard dash this weekend and jump past four or five players at his position who ran a 4.5, while none of the 10 questions above were ever answered.

That's dangerous.

tony hipchest
02-26-2008, 09:41 AM
http://www.nfl.com/combine/story;jsessionid=B80AD576C285D9576F6ADED402C50F7A? id=09000d5d806c8a31&template=with-video&confirm=true

Michigan OT Jake Long has been close to the top of most mock draft boards for some time, but despite his ideal size (6-7, 325), he doesn't possess the natural strength, athleticism or quickness to project to left tackle. He's more of a dominant run blocker who could line up on the right side. One prominent NFL talent evaluator described him as the next Jon Runyan.

Jake Long will still be a very good pro, but teams aren't likely to trade away picks or players for a right tackle. Instead, they could find rising players with growth potential in picks 8-15, like Pittsburgh's Jeff Otah and Boise State's Ryan Clady, players who could develop into cornerstone tackles on the left side. Both could end up in the top 10.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-26-2008, 10:12 AM
That is interesting....Otah in the first to play T and Baker can play any of the 4 G or T spots. I would not be outraged by that, but really believe we need to get younger and better on the D-line as well.

Crushzilla
02-26-2008, 07:37 PM
Mike Tomlin's "feel" is apparently a little different than Cowher's...

"I 'feel' like drafting whoever, whenever"

Of course... I KEED...

That is interesting....Otah in the first to play T and Baker can play any of the 4 G or T spots. I would not be outraged by that, but really believe we need to get younger and better on the D-line as well.

As much as I'm sure we won't be splish splashing around in the FA pool, I'm not going to decide what I want in round one until that whole ordeal is over.

I agree though... I couldn't argue with that...

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-26-2008, 09:18 PM
Crush, you are right that we gotta wait to see if anybody decent is picked up in FA. As much as I wouldnt complain about O line with picks 1 and 2....I really dont see it.

When the Jets went D'Brickshaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold....that was an instant improvement, but I dont see Otah/Baker having the same impact.

tony hipchest
02-26-2008, 09:27 PM
When the Jets went D'Brickshaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold....that was an instant improvement, but I dont see Otah/Baker having the same impact.im thinking the steelers dont really like the idea of any 2 rookies protecting ben (no matter how good).

Crushzilla
02-26-2008, 11:31 PM
im thinking the steelers dont really like the idea of any 2 rookies protecting ben (no matter how good).

Aye, but hopefully there will at least be consideration...

Considering some of the guys we have now have the stopping power of a super soaker, I wouldn't mind seeing some friendly competition in camp.

Aussie_steeler
02-27-2008, 02:03 AM
Crush, you are right that we gotta wait to see if anybody decent is picked up in FA. As much as I wouldnt complain about O line with picks 1 and 2....I really dont see it.

When the Jets went D'Brickshaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold....that was an instant improvement, but I dont see Otah/Baker having the same impact.

I would argue for Albert / Pollack having an instant improvement with Faneca leaving. I think we are OK at tackle with Max and Marvel but depth is needed. Albert could start at LG or compete at tackle. A true center is the missing piece to the puzzle on O line.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-27-2008, 04:33 AM
for what its worth, pat kirwan took a call from a steelerfan and said going otah in the 1st and baker in the 2nd would get our line right where it needs to be.

Interesting...I put alot of stock in Kirwans opinion...he is usually pretty astute.

lilyoder6
02-27-2008, 10:04 AM
well with the jets situation they had no good lineman staring thats y they were upgrades as soon as they were drafted.. we have the lineman is most pos.. we just nned 1 or 2 to play and groom

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-27-2008, 11:13 AM
I would argue for Albert / Pollack having an instant improvement with Faneca leaving. I think we are OK at tackle with Max and Marvel but depth is needed. Albert could start at LG or compete at tackle. A true center is the missing piece to the puzzle on O line.

I dont know about that. Albert is a kid with upside, not a polished product. His value is his size and athleticism and the fact that he may be coached up to being a LT in the NFL. Only way he starts next season in the NFL is on a team with bad OG. Chilo Rachal is a more polished guard.

Pollack is confusing. He was seen as a finess and technique center that fits a zone blocking scheme, not the kind of guy that matches up against 3-4 nose tackles well. Now with a good couple days at the combine he is considered great. I think he would be an upgrade in the pass protection side of things, but not even as good a run blocker as Mahan.

Aussie_steeler
02-28-2008, 01:33 AM
I dont know about that. Albert is a kid with upside, not a polished product. His value is his size and athleticism and the fact that he may be coached up to being a LT in the NFL. Only way he starts next season in the NFL is on a team with bad OG. Chilo Rachal is a more polished guard.

Pollack is confusing. He was seen as a finess and technique center that fits a zone blocking scheme, not the kind of guy that matches up against 3-4 nose tackles well. Now with a good couple days at the combine he is considered great. I think he would be an upgrade in the pass protection side of things, but not even as good a run blocker as Mahan.

When Faneca leaves that guard spot is open to be filled by someone who is unproven. We could possibly argue that the 2008 steelers might just be a team with a bad OG. Albert or Rachal have as much chance as any other guard on the roster in filling that spot IMO.

In general Albert appears to be higher rated than Rachal by the majority of draft commentators. Rachal entered the draft early only to earn money for his family in need, otherwise he is on the record saying that he would have stayed in college to get better. For some reason I am not sold on Rachal.

WIth the way the team is playing in the passing and running game the smashmouth identity of the O line is declining. The O line appears to be evolving slightly, not to a ZBS, but something a little more subtle than previous years. I think a center like Pollack will not get beat as easily as Mahan did at times due to his better technique, therefore making him more productive in Arians offensive scheme. Strength to be stout at the point of attack can be gained in the weight room and with a little maturity I think Pollack will definitely be that.

I think the draft combine numbers put up by Pollack answered some questions. He is not the smallest center on offer at 299lbs, is very mobile and appeared to be one of the strongest. Coupled with his performance in the senior bowl workouts he showed that of this class he is the best prospect in both the pass and run blocking aspects of the game.

I dont think a OT will start unless Marvels back is so bad that he is forced to rest or retire. IMO I think a OG and OC get better chances to start.

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2008, 08:47 AM
im thinking the steelers dont really like the idea of any 2 rookies protecting ben (no matter how good).
yeah....he may get sacked 50 times times instead of 47......:wink02:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-28-2008, 10:32 AM
When Faneca leaves that guard spot is open to be filled by someone who is unproven. We could possibly argue that the 2008 steelers might just be a team with a bad OG. Albert or Rachal have as much chance as any other guard on the roster in filling that spot IMO.

Neither will beat out Simmons and his new contract. I dont think either would supplant Kemo or Colon who are 3-4 year veterans who are bigger and more physical

WIth the way the team is playing in the passing and running game the smashmouth identity of the O line is declining. The O line appears to be evolving slightly, not to a ZBS, but something a little more subtle than previous years. I think a center like Pollack will not get beat as easily as Mahan did at times due to his better technique, therefore making him more productive in Arians offensive scheme. Strength to be stout at the point of attack can be gained in the weight room and with a little maturity I think Pollack will definitely be that. Possibly Pollack can get stronger, but he never played strong in college. Technique will help to not get beat and get angles, but not to handle 3-4 NT's like Hampton, Williams, Ted Washington, Grady Jackson, Vince Wilfork, etc Kemoatu can bring back some smash mouth identity to the team as could Otah or Nicks.

I think the draft combine numbers put up by Pollack answered some questions.The numbers Mike Mamula put up raised some questions too dont you think? I'm not a big fan of combine numbers...they are a good guideline, but its better to see what a guy does in games. Pollack is a great athlete and can maybe be a solid center, but not the long term answer here He is not the smallest center on offer at 299lbs, is very mobile and appeared to be one of the strongest. Coupled with his performance in the senior bowl workouts he showed that of this class he is the best prospect in both the pass and run blocking aspects of the game.

I dont think a OT will start unless Marvels back is so bad that he is forced to rest or retire. IMO I think a OG and OC get better chances to startYou are absolutely correct! O line is one of the most difficult places to come in and start. Its very techincal, so the reality is almost any O lineman drafted here will probably not start on the Steelers and have to wait a season. My suggestion is we pick the one that will be the best for the next 5-10 years rather than rush to plug in a need this season.

I'm in favour of Albert, Otah, Nicks....Maybe even Williams or Benedict.

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2008, 11:01 AM
O line is one of the most difficult places to come in and start. Its very techincal, so the reality is almost any O lineman drafted here will probably not start on the Steelers and have to wait a season.
joe staley OT
ben grubbs OG
aaron sears OT
justin blaylock OG
tony ugoh OT

what do these guys have in common ???....the steelers had the oppurtunity to draft any of them for a fraction of what they paid for a pine riding lber. what else did they have in common??? ALL WERE STARTERS !!!!! so to say a rookie olinemen couldn't come in and not only contribute immediately, but also be an UPGRADE is total BULLSH*T !!! if the colts had no problem letting ugoh watch goldenboy mannings blindside, i'm pretty sure the steelers wouldn't have minded having him INSTEAD of turnstyle colon.....:coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-28-2008, 11:17 AM
Error

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-28-2008, 11:23 AM
When Faneca leaves that guard spot is open to be filled by someone who is unproven. We could possibly argue that the 2008 steelers might just be a team with a bad OG. Albert or Rachal have as much chance as any other guard on the roster in filling that spot IMO.

In general Albert appears to be higher rated than Rachal by the majority of draft commentators. Rachal entered the draft early only to earn money for his family in need, otherwise he is on the record saying that he would have stayed in college to get better. For some reason I am not sold on Rachal.

WIth the way the team is playing in the passing and running game the smashmouth identity of the O line is declining. The O line appears to be evolving slightly, not to a ZBS, but something a little more subtle than previous years. I think a center like Pollack will not get beat as easily as Mahan did at times due to his better technique, therefore making him more productive in Arians offensive scheme. Strength to be stout at the point of attack can be gained in the weight room and with a little maturity I think Pollack will definitely be that.

I think the draft combine numbers put up by Pollack answered some questions. He is not the smallest center on offer at 299lbs, is very mobile and appeared to be one of the strongest. Coupled with his performance in the senior bowl workouts he showed that of this class he is the best prospect in both the pass and run blocking aspects of the game.

I dont think a OT will start unless Marvels back is so bad that he is forced to rest or retire. IMO I think a OG and OC get better chances to start.

joe staley OT
ben grubbs OG
aaron sears OT
justin blaylock OG
tony ugoh OT

what do these guys have in common ???....the steelers had the oppurtunity to draft any of them for a fraction of what they paid for a pine riding lber. what else did they have in common??? ALL WERE STARTERS !!!!! so to say a rookie olinemen couldn't come in and not only contribute immediately, but also be an UPGRADE is total BULLSH*T !!! if the colts had no problem letting ugoh watch goldenboy mannings blindside, i'm pretty sure the steelers wouldn't have minded having him INSTEAD of turnstyle colon.....:coffee:


What they all have in common is they HAD to play because of injured, retired or just really bad O lines. They were upgrades over the poor replacements or already poor starters.

Ben Grubbs was a 5 year guy at Auburn and part of a patchwork O line of Grubbs, Gathier and Yanda....all rookies.

Sears replaced/beat out Dan Beuning???

Blaylock stepped into that slightly less than dominant Atlanta O line

Ugoh replaced Tarik Glen...if it wasnt him it was gonna be Charlie Johnson???

Staley was one of the most NFL ready prospects coming out and replaced pervious bust Kwame Harris.

Rachal would not be an upgrade over Simmons, Kemo, Colon at guard. Pollack might be a better pass blocker than Mahan, but watch some film on his run blocking ability against a big NT.

Also, can you name me the last steelers O lineman to legitimately start as a rookie??

Alan Faneca got his chance 10 years ago when Woolford and Sweeney went down otherwise he would have been on the pine.

No rookie for the Steelers will start next year unless somebody gets injured. Thats a fact.

lilyoder6
02-28-2008, 01:21 PM
well wasn't holmes the # 2 wr when we drafted him.. and didn't heath miller start at te when we drafted him??

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-28-2008, 02:07 PM
well wasn't holmes the # 2 wr when we drafted him.. and didn't heath miller start at te when we drafted him??

With Miller absolutely!!! Holmes actually was the 3rd WR, but started by the end of the season. I think Troy Edwards started as a rookie. Maybe Plaxico did too, or in a previous era Swann, Stallworth, Eric Green maybe too.

Again, please name me the last Rookie O-lineman that started for the Steelers because of his performance....not an injury to the current starter?

It doesnt happen very often and dont expect to see it this season unless the AFC North champs are in a "rebuilding" year.

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2008, 04:48 PM
What they all have in common is they HAD to play because of injured, retired or just really bad O lines. They were upgrades over the poor replacements or already poor starters.
ummmmm....isn't that the point of drafting new players ??? do we not have " poor starters" ???

Ben Grubbs was a 5 year guy at Auburn and part of a patchwork O line of Grubbs, Gathier and Yanda....all rookies.
so i guess he couldn't start on our patch work line......mcgahee still finished 8th in the league in rushing with 3 rookies starting, and no pass threat to speak of....not to mention they only gave up 39 SACKS !!!


Sears replaced/beat out Dan Beuning???
sears started 16 games at LG for tampabay...
http://www.nfl.com/players/arronsears/profile?id=SEA500125

Blaylock stepped into that slightly less than dominant Atlanta O line
again....thats why they drafted him !!! unlike the steelers who seemed to be content with thier " less than dominate line"... as if a second rate mahan was going to solve the problem...
Ugoh replaced Tarik Glen...if it wasnt him it was gonna be Charlie Johnson???

geesh....can't hardly believe a rookie could beat out a vet .......:coffee:

Staley was one of the most NFL ready prospects coming out and replaced pervious bust Kwame Harris.
see above....

Rachal would not be an upgrade over Simmons, Kemo, Colon at guard. Pollack might be a better pass blocker than Mahan, but watch some film on his run blocking ability against a big NT.
hey, any chance you can get todays lottery numbers outta that crystal ball??? i'd be more interested in seeing some game film of colon or kemo playing guard...apparently you must have some.

Also, can you name me the last steelers O lineman to legitimately start as a rookie??
could it be becauce the steelers used to NOT wait until the line goes to shit before they do something about it ???
Alan Faneca got his chance 10 years ago when Woolford and Sweeney went down otherwise he would have been on the pine.

No rookie for the Steelers will start next year unless somebody gets injured. Thats a fact.
ok coach....whatever you say......:toofunny:


:coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-28-2008, 05:11 PM
OK Puppetmaster....I'm still waiting to know who the last Steeler rookie O lineman was that came into camp as the projected starter.

I myself really dont know who it is. Closest I can figure out is Leon Searcy in '92.

As for the Ravens line, pretty decent by a rookie group mainly, but only 8 fewer sacks and 8th in the league in rushing??? If Parker doesnt get hurt the Steelers line probably has 8 fewer sacks because of a good running game and he wins the rushing title. Thats why the current line does not need an overhaul of rookies.

O-line is a difficult position for a rookie to play and the Steelers never let their O line get as run down as other teams where they NEED a rookie to start. If they start one this season I will be the first to post about it.........until then, maybe you should try some decaf in your emoticon.

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2008, 07:11 PM
OK Puppetmaster....I'm still waiting to know who the last Steeler rookie O lineman was that came into camp as the projected starter.

I myself really dont know who it is. Closest I can figure out is Leon Searcy in '92.

As for the Ravens line, pretty decent by a rookie group mainly, but only 8 fewer sacks and 8th in the league in rushing??? If Parker doesnt get hurt the Steelers line probably has 8 fewer sacks because of a good running game and he wins the rushing title. Thats why the current line does not need an overhaul of rookies.

O-line is a difficult position for a rookie to play and the Steelers never let their O line get as run down as other teams where they NEED a rookie to start. If they start one this season I will be the first to post about it.........until then, maybe you should try some decaf in your emoticon.
so then you don't think the line was run down last year? did you watch preseason last year? why was tomlin playing musical chairs with the oline?
i don't know who the last " projected starter" was, i'm not sure there is such a thing for rookies. even our 4th rd punter had competition in camp. simmons did start 14 games in 2002.
i didn't say the ravens were 8th as a team in rushing,i said willis mcgahee was the 8th leading rusher.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

and heres the ravens passing stats. (sacks)....
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find

as far as your claim about parkers injury leading to extra sacks.....BULLSH*T...:wink02: THEY GAVE UP 49 SACKS IN 2006...with a healthy 16 game parker....::flap:

O-line is a difficult position for a rookie to play and the Steelers never let their O line get as run down as other teams where they NEED a rookie to start.
instead, they sign a second rate guard to play center....how'd that work out?

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-28-2008, 08:52 PM
TerpcrazyMD.

O line was not "run down" as you say. There was just no depth. Smith played hurt, Faneca played not to get hurt for his big payday, Mahan couldnt spell pass blocking, Simmons was average and Colon a good 2nd season.

Tomlin played musical chairs with 2 positions. Center Mahan/Okobi and RT Starks/Colon. Simmons was injured in camp his rookie season and played the final 14 games rather well because Rich Tylski got injured.

I know McGahee was 8th in rushing....not exactly something you put on a resume. "Yeah, I was 8th out of 32!!!"

Are you trying to say that if the Steelers were able to run more with Parker instead of having to pass because Davenport couldnt run the ball effectively they would not have less sacks??? IN your words BULLSH*T! Fewer pass attempts will result in fewer sacks.

I never lobbied for Mahan to be signed. The Steelers should have taken care of that position long ago with Jake Grove, Nick Mangold or a decent vet. The fact still remains that drafting a finesse center to play immediately just because he had 2 good days at the combine is not a good move long term.

Better centers in next years draft and might be able to get simmons to play there for a couple seasons.

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2008, 09:47 PM
TerpcrazyMD.

O line was not "run down" as you say. There was just no depth. Smith played hurt, Faneca played not to get hurt for his big payday, Mahan couldnt spell pass blocking, Simmons was average and Colon a good 2nd season.

Tomlin played musical chairs with 2 positions. Center Mahan/Okobi and RT Starks/Colon. Simmons was injured in camp his rookie season and played the final 14 games rather well because Rich Tylski got injured.

I know McGahee was 8th in rushing....not exactly something you put on a resume. "Yeah, I was 8th out of 32!!!"

Are you trying to say that if the Steelers were able to run more with Parker instead of having to pass because Davenport couldnt run the ball effectively they would not have less sacks??? IN your words BULLSH*T! Fewer pass attempts will result in fewer sacks.

I never lobbied for Mahan to be signed. The Steelers should have taken care of that position long ago with Jake Grove, Nick Mangold or a decent vet. The fact still remains that drafting a finesse center to play immediately just because he had 2 good days at the combine is not a good move long term.

Better centers in next years draft and might be able to get simmons to play there for a couple seasons.
ok...thats 1 suck...1 avg.....and i'm sorry but giving up 12.5 sacks doesn't qualify as a good 2nd season, ....and somewhwere on this forum, i've posted the stats on negative rushing yardage. i don't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere around 40 times the backs were dropped for a lose.
IN your words BULLSH*T! Fewer pass attempts will result in fewer sacks.thats odd, because the stats certainly don't support your theory, out of the top 16 qbs last year roethlisberger had the fewest attempts, but was sacked the second most !!!


1 Tom Brady NE .....................578 attempts....21 sacks
2 Drew Brees NO ...................652.....................16
3 Tony Romo DAL ...................520......................24
4 Brett Favre GB .....................535.......................15
5 Carson Palmer CIN .............575......................17
6 Jon Kitna DET ......................561.......................51
7 Peyton Manning IND ...........515.......................21
8 Matt Hasselbeck SEA ..........562......................33
9 Derek Anderson CLE ...........527.......................14
10 Jay Cutler DEN ...................467.......................27
11 Kurt Warner ARI ...................451........................20
12 Eli Manning NYG ..................529......................27
13 Donovan McNabb PHI ........473.......................44
14 Ben Roethlisberger PIT .......404......................47
15 Philip Rivers SD ...................460......................22
16 Jason Campbell wash..........417......................21

Aussie_steeler
02-29-2008, 02:30 AM
The fact still remains that drafting a finesse center to play immediately just because he had 2 good days at the combine is not a good move long term.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=23282&page=3

I have had my eyes on Pollack for a while (see link above.. all precombine). I am not just jumping on a combine workout bandwagon. His senior bowl workouts had him as the dominant center of the class who handled the rush well all week. Let him practice against Casey daily and he will learn to handle the best NT's in the league.
At worst I think Pollack would even make an effective guard and provide depth at G & C if Luigs or Mack can be drafted in 2009.
I think that he would work out. Obviously you dont. I am fine with that. Come draft day we will probably all be wrong but as the result of these dialouges we will know much more about all potential picks. Thats what I love about this.

Better centers in next years draft and might be able to get simmons to play there for a couple seasons. I agree totally with next years draft and would love to have Mack or Luigs,but I am not prepared to give simmons the chance to be another mahan. you have called his guard play average so how well will he do with the added responsibility and delay time of snapping the ball? IMO i believe a finesse center can develop power and stoutness much easier than a power center can develop finesse & technique. Just my opinion.
I truly see the makeup of the line evolving in the next few years to a less power orientated line.

Great to have you on board Gonzo Jackson. You definitely have more presence in battle than good old Alonzo.:tt02::tt02: I really enjoy the competitive banter.:cheers:

If Stapleton is as good as the FO believe then all this discussion will be in vain or should I say FAINE????

Rhee Rhee
02-29-2008, 02:35 AM
my gosh in this photo his head looks tiny....

and he looks like he's in terrible pain...

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-29-2008, 12:14 PM
ok...thats 1 suck...1 avg.....and i'm sorry but giving up 12.5 sacks doesn't qualify as a good 2nd season, ....and somewhwere on this forum, i've posted the stats on negative rushing yardage. i don't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere around 40 times the backs were dropped for a lose.
thats odd, because the stats certainly don't support your theory, out of the top 16 qbs last year roethlisberger had the fewest attempts, but was sacked the second most !!!


1 Tom Brady NE .....................578 attempts....21 sacks
2 Drew Brees NO ...................652.....................16
3 Tony Romo DAL ...................520......................24
4 Brett Favre GB .....................535.......................15
5 Carson Palmer CIN .............575......................17
6 Jon Kitna DET ......................561.......................51
7 Peyton Manning IND ...........515.......................21
8 Matt Hasselbeck SEA ..........562......................33
9 Derek Anderson CLE ...........527.......................14
10 Jay Cutler DEN ...................467.......................27
11 Kurt Warner ARI ...................451........................20
12 Eli Manning NYG ..................529......................27
13 Donovan McNabb PHI ........473.......................44
14 Ben Roethlisberger PIT .......404......................47
15 Philip Rivers SD ...................460......................22
16 Jason Campbell wash..........417......................21

Terpcrazy, you can hack on the line all you want, but my original point is, was and will be that any rookie will not figure on being a starter for the Steelers this season. So no reason to draft a rookie to fill a need immediately.....draft the best athlete to be a consistent player for at least 5 seasons.

My point that the fewer times you pass the fewer times you will be sacked is valid. If Tom Brady gets sacked 4% of the time he drops back, or Kitna 9% or Roethlisberger 11% the more you rush and less you pass....the fewer sacks there will be.

Great list, I was really surprised by the amount of sacks the west coast offense types were sacked like Philly and Seattle.

Bottom Line....dont expect any steelers rookie O lineman to be drafted to start this season. Not Pollack, Albert, Otah, Williams ......only guys is if they somehow trade up for Jake Long.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Great to have you on board Gonzo Jackson. You definitely have more presence in battle than good old Alonzo.:tt02::tt02: I really enjoy the competitive banter.:cheers:

If Stapleton is as good as the FO believe then all this discussion will be in vain or should I say FAINE????

Aussie, I too think Pollack has better value as a guard and like the athleticism...just dont think he fits the Steeler mold. I like trying to hold off for the 09 draft and getting a legit veteran for 2 seasons to play Center...then either use Mahan as a guard or release him.

I too enjoy the spirited discussion and respect other points of view. Although I must say I appreciate the more logical views like yours than the less thought out knee jerk reactions we can all be prone too.

I will go on the record as saying I thought Larry Johnson was gonna be another Blair Thomas and was wrong. So the LJ pimps were right back then and I was wrong....although his last season....:wink02: