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View Full Version : Cap Space!!!


aclark99
02-29-2008, 02:26 PM
Why is it year in and year out the Steelers are always toeing the line. We are cheap when it comes to signing players including our own. We sign our own to big contracts but they never produce. Every team this year has more cap space than us. What are we doing wrong? Right now we can't even look at a free agent let alone sign a draft pick or Ben. What needs to be done?

dunkuntou
02-29-2008, 02:33 PM
We actually have plenty of cap room...so don't let anyone fool you...

tony hipchest
02-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Why is it year in and year out the Steelers are always toeing the line. We are cheap when it comes to signing players including our own. We sign our own to big contracts but they never produce. Every team this year has more cap space than us. What are we doing wrong? Right now we can't even look at a free agent let alone sign a draft pick or Ben. What needs to be done?and the myths continue.


:dang: i dont know where all this misinformation is coming from.

what can be done? we can let guys like polamalu walk so we can sign hot free agents such as madieu williams. maybe cut ward, to go after moss.

we signed ward and faneca to huge contracts. has alan even missed a pro bowl? ward was sb mvp. willie parker produced and i happen to think ike taylor is a fine CB. aaron smith produced.

i guess people will complain when we decide to extend heath miller and pass on somebody like FA a. crumpler.

19ward86
02-29-2008, 03:04 PM
I think we are doing pretty well, i understand what you mean by us not having much cash becuase is seems that the pats can sign a random player to a $600 billion contract at any time and still have space yet signing 4 restricted free agents cost us half of our cap. i understand but our $21 million in space isnt pocket change, that is 1/5 of our total space, that is a huge amount. We are careful with our money and build through the draft and we have 5 superbowls and we are the winningest(is that a word?) team over the last 30 years, we have around 800 wins and the next team has around 650. i think our way is best....

polamalu82
02-29-2008, 03:23 PM
and the myths continue.


:dang: i dont know where all this misinformation is coming from.

.

The misinformation is from the media. Last night NFL network said we had 2million over the cap.

tony hipchest
02-29-2008, 03:35 PM
http://www.steelersalarycap.com/default.aspx

this is the most comprehensive site ive seen on the matter. it isnt always 100% correct down to the penny, but neither are all the media reports. this dude does his homework, and i would say much more reliable than random opinions thrown up on a board.

TackleMeBen
02-29-2008, 03:50 PM
The misinformation is from the media

see its always the mediias fault..lol :wink02:

dunkuntou
02-29-2008, 03:58 PM
The NFL Network is very often wrong on many accounts. The Steelers are under the cap and by a solid amount. Nothing like the Bucs being $40 million under but they are fine and they have enough room to sign a couple of guys to fill in holes.

Alot relates to what happens with Max.

polamalu82
02-29-2008, 04:06 PM
The NFL Network is very often wrong on many accounts. The Steelers are under the cap and by a solid amount. Nothing like the Bucs being $40 million under but they are fine and they have enough room to sign a couple of guys to fill in holes.

Alot relates to what happens with Max.

That 2million over was a mistype on my part. I ment to type 2 million under. I guess my typing skills are misinformed too.:dang::smile:

BlastFurnace
02-29-2008, 04:07 PM
Why is it year in and year out the Steelers are always toeing the line. We are cheap when it comes to signing players including our own. We sign our own to big contracts but they never produce. Every team this year has more cap space than us. What are we doing wrong? Right now we can't even look at a free agent let alone sign a draft pick or Ben. What needs to be done?

In the past 16 years, we have 11 playoff appearances, 1 Super Bowl, 2 Super Bowl appearances, and 6 AFC Championship Games.

Nearly every team that goes crazy at FA doesn't win anything significant.

Right now, the Steelers need to prepare and have a solid draft, unlike some of the recent one's that have not produced many decent players in day 2.

TackleMeBen
02-29-2008, 04:12 PM
That 2million over was a mistype on my part. I ment to type 2 million under. I guess my typing skills are misinformed too.:dang::smile:

tell your fingers to get with the program then..lol. :flap:

fansince'76
02-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Why is it year in and year out the Steelers are always toeing the line. We are cheap when it comes to signing players including our own. We sign our own to big contracts but they never produce. Every team this year has more cap space than us. What are we doing wrong? Right now we can't even look at a free agent let alone sign a draft pick or Ben. What needs to be done?

It's called spreading the wealth out among the 53 on the roster as opposed to having 3 or 4 very high-priced stars surrounded by duds. And it works. Did you realize wheeler-dealer Dan Snyder's Redskins are $20+ million OVER the cap with only 45 players under contract at the moment? If you're going to levy the usual and very tired (not to mention COMPLETELY inaccurate) annual charge of the Steelers' FO being cheap, please get your facts straight at least. The Rooneys pay their players well. They DON'T grossly overpay them, however. :yawn:

Black@Gold Forever32
02-29-2008, 05:45 PM
Well don't forget some players have escalators in their contracts if they reach certain performance levels...I know Ben had some when he signed his rookie contract....Those escalators could drive up Ben's cap number......

Elvis
02-29-2008, 06:14 PM
http://www.steelersalarycap.com/default.aspx

this is the most comprehensive site ive seen on the matter. it isnt always 100% correct down to the penny, but neither are all the media reports. this dude does his homework, and i would say much more reliable than random opinions thrown up on a board.
Thats a good site Tony, I think that he has his numbers updated since I was there last.
:tt02:

polamalu82
02-29-2008, 06:16 PM
I agree with ncsteeler. Look at all the other teams buying up free-agents every year. It goes back to that old saying "You can't buy a Super Bowl." If that wasn't true then Dallas or the Redskins would be winning one every year.

rbryan
02-29-2008, 07:19 PM
It's been explained to me that the Steelers are always tight on the cap because they don't back load contracts as much as a lot of other teams. IOW they pay as they're going moreso than a lot of the teams that push much more of the guaranteed $ further into the future. It boils down to a more conservative business approach.

Big surprise.

austinfrench76
02-29-2008, 09:12 PM
I still don't understand how year after year we lose the top flight FA's but have cap issues. We seem to try and keep our own but, not sign them to HUGE contracts. How are the Steelers always "out" of the FA market and struggling to sign our own?

fansince'76
02-29-2008, 09:31 PM
I still don't understand how year after year we lose the top flight FA's but have cap issues. We seem to try and keep our own but, not sign them to HUGE contracts. How are the Steelers always "out" of the FA market and struggling to sign our own?

Because we spread the money out EVENLY across the 53 players on the roster. FA is overrated. Look at the Redskins as proof of that. For all the big moves the Pats* made in FA last year, what did it get them? The biggest choke in SB history.

RoethlisBURGHer
02-29-2008, 09:39 PM
I still don't understand how year after year we lose the top flight FA's but have cap issues. We seem to try and keep our own but, not sign them to HUGE contracts. How are the Steelers always "out" of the FA market and struggling to sign our own?

We're not aways "out" of the FA market and we don't struggle to sign our own.

If there were a guy in FA the Steelers felt they absolutley needed, they would sign him.

We don't struggle to sign our own either. The Steelers don't overpay their own players, and seem to know when to let guys go.

Joey Porter wanted a monster deal, and he was going to hold out to get it or to be released. So to avoid the headache, they just let him walk. They knew he wasn't going to produce what the contract he wanted was going to pay.

Alan Faneca wants a huge deal at the tail-end of his career. He's on the downside of what's been a magnificent career, and the Steelers aren't going to pay him what he wants. We're not struggling to pay him, we're just being smart with our money.

Oh, and the Steelers are not cheap either.

Last offseason, we resigned Troy Polamalu to a very large deal that made him one of the highest payed safties in football.

The year before, we gave Hines Ward the largest contract in Steelers history.

This offseason, we will be giving Ben Roethlisberger the largest contract in Steelers history.

austinfrench76
02-29-2008, 10:37 PM
I never said that the Steelers are cheap. I simply asked why we are always up against the cap? And, Alan Faneca is not at the tail end of his career. That's what we say as fans to protect our fragile fantasy that the Steelers aren't cheap. Joey Porter was foresight but, Faneca is not at the tail end of his career! I wouldn't say to pay him either but, we have lost plenty over the years and we continue to struggle with cap issues.

fansince'76
02-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Alan Faneca is not at the tail end of his career. That's what we say as fans to protect our fragile fantasy that the Steelers aren't cheap.

And keep holding onto the fantasy that Faneca's best days aren't already behind him. Let someone else pay through the nose for his past performance as he continues to decline (like the Dolphins are doing with Peezy). He's gotten to the last 2 Pro Bowls on his name only.

The Duke
02-29-2008, 10:48 PM
I never said that the Steelers are cheap.

and, Alan Faneca is not at the tail end of his career. That's what we say as fans to protect our fragile fantasy that the Steelers aren't cheap.

:huh:

Galax Steeler
03-01-2008, 04:49 AM
I never said that the Steelers are cheap. I simply asked why we are always up against the cap? And, Alan Faneca is not at the tail end of his career. That's what we say as fans to protect our fragile fantasy that the Steelers aren't cheap. Joey Porter was foresight but, Faneca is not at the tail end of his career! I wouldn't say to pay him either but, we have lost plenty over the years and we continue to struggle with cap issues.

I have to disagree faneca is at the tail end of his carrer he may play 4or 5 more years but he is not going to produce like he did in the past look at last year the man was a gapping hole in our offensive line.

FourThreeMafia
03-01-2008, 06:20 AM
Its funny....the Steelers have been doing business the same way for years by building through the draft, and using FA only in dire cases, yet every year, there are a group of Steeler fans complaining about it.

Deal with it.

Whoever said the Steelers/Rooneys are cheap have no clue. Find me a year when the Steelers are well under the cap. Go look at those teams that are constantly $20-30 mil under the cap every year, then tell me who is cheap.

How many players that the Steelers have let go have went on to have great success. We gave Ike, Willie, Troy, Hines and soon to be Ben, long term contracts, yet we let declining stars like Porter and Faneca walk, and Steeler fans cry about the Rooneys being cheap.

And yes, Faneca is declining. Still good, but no longer dominant.

dunkuntou
03-01-2008, 09:24 AM
The Steelers are technically $2 million under however that takes into consideration the tenders given to the RFA and the transition tag placed on Max Starks.

I would be willing to guess they are trying to trade Cedrick Wilson. If they trade or cut him they would save another $2 million. A #4 receiver isn't worth that much money.

I would guess that we will see at least one of Marvel Smith, Ike Taylor or Casey Hampton will have their contract re-worked in order to save additional money.

So after all that I would say we will end up with closer to $10 million (depending on Starks) which a large portion will be for draft picks and the remainder probably going to Ben's new contract

dunkuntou
03-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Its funny....the Steelers have been doing business the same way for years by building through the draft, and using FA only in dire cases, yet every year, there are a group of Steeler fans complaining about it.

Deal with it.

Whoever said the Steelers/Rooneys are cheap have no clue. Find me a year when the Steelers are well under the cap. Go look at those teams that are constantly $20-30 mil under the cap every year, then tell me who is cheap.

How many players that the Steelers have let go have went on to have great success. We gave Ike, Willie, Troy, Hines and soon to be Ben, long term contracts, yet we let declining stars like Porter and Faneca walk, and Steeler fans cry about the Rooneys being cheap.

And yes, Faneca is declining. Still good, but no longer dominant.

Thats 100% right. People view the Steelers as being cheap or not spending but they are always at the cap limit. ITs because they have done a good job at retaining a good chunk of their franchise players.

Ward may also see his contract re-worked

TackleMeBen
03-01-2008, 09:32 AM
Its funny....the Steelers have been doing business the same way for years by building through the draft, and using FA only in dire cases, yet every year, there are a group of Steeler fans complaining about it.

Deal with it.

Whoever said the Steelers/Rooneys are cheap have no clue. Find me a year when the Steelers are well under the cap. Go look at those teams that are constantly $20-30 mil under the cap every year, then tell me who is cheap.

How many players that the Steelers have let go have went on to have great success. We gave Ike, Willie, Troy, Hines and soon to be Ben, long term contracts, yet we let declining stars like Porter and Faneca walk, and Steeler fans cry about the Rooneys being cheap.

And yes, Faneca is declining. Still good, but no longer dominant.

:iagree: best post so far...

the rooneys arent being cheap with their money they are being responsible and not over paying old players. and if you look at faneca last year how many times did he get beat and had ben running for his life or on his back b/c of a sack?

as i said in another post.. dont let the door hit you on the way out ..lol

83-Steelers-43
03-01-2008, 01:45 PM
We are cheap when it comes to signing players including our own.

And once again, another reason why the local media has put out two articles over the last two days when it comes to the Steelers and FA.

Go ask Hines Ward what he thinks of the Rooney's when it comes to spending money.

Go ask Troy Polamalu what he thinks of the Rooney's when it comes to spending money.

Go ask Kendall Simmons what he thinks when it comes to the Rooney's spending money.

Go ask Sean Mahan what he thinks when it comes to the Rooney's spending money.

In the near future, go ask Roethlisberger what he thinks about the Rooney's when it comes to spending money.

A Super Bowl and five playoff teams over the last seven years. Keep complaining buddy. Then again, there's always the winning ways of Daniel Snyder and the Redskins.

Glace
03-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Why is it year in and year out the Steelers are always toeing the line. We are cheap when it comes to signing players including our own. We sign our own to big contracts but they never produce. Every team this year has more cap space than us. What are we doing wrong? Right now we can't even look at a free agent let alone sign a draft pick or Ben. What needs to be done?

5 Super Bowls and a contender almost every year .... 'nuff said

Atlanta Dan
03-01-2008, 03:44 PM
Interesting article on SI.com on how (surprise!) the cap can be manipulated by tricking up the numbers on performance bonuses

Teams with significant cap space late in a season can manipulate the following year's cap by writing likely-to-be-earned incentive bonuses into contracts that, in reality, have zero chance of being earned.

Such incentives count against a team's cap the year they're written, but if they're not met -- and teams have ways of making sure they're not met -- the team is then credited the amount of the bonuses against the following year's cap.

According to figures distributed to each NFL team this week, 24 of the 32 NFL teams were given upward cap adjustments for 2008, six teams were given downward cap adjustments (thanks to conventional incentives that were met) and two teams had no adjustments.

According to this article, the Steelers have less money to spend under their 2008 cap than virtually any other team. How much that has to do with the Steelers not being cap savvy and how much has to do with a number of skill players (Ben & Willie P.?) meeting a lot of 2007 performance incentives that adversely hit the 2008 cap is unclear to me, but regardless of the reason the Steelers seemingly are on a tighter budget than any teams other than the Texans, Giants and Lions for 2008.

http://si.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=SI.com+-+Writers+-+Reuben+Frank%3A+Vikes%2C+Eagles+among+best+cap+ma nipulators+-+Saturday+March+1%2C+2008+2%3A09AM&expire=-1&urlID=26876432&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsportsillustrated.cnn.com%2F2008% 2Fwriters%2Freuben_frank%2F03%2F01%2Fcap.figures%2 Findex.html&partnerID=2356

Combine this linked data on the Steelers apparently not being particularly savvy in cap management with some less than stellar drafts and I am beginning to question whether the consistent rumor that Colbert will join up with Cowher when Cowher resumes coaching in 2009 would necessarily be an unfavorable development for the Steelers

Rhee Rhee
03-01-2008, 04:04 PM
Interesting article on SI.com on how (surprise!) the cap can be manipulated by tricking up the numbers on performance bonuses

Teams with significant cap space late in a season can manipulate the following year's cap by writing likely-to-be-earned incentive bonuses into contracts that, in reality, have zero chance of being earned.

Such incentives count against a team's cap the year they're written, but if they're not met -- and teams have ways of making sure they're not met -- the team is then credited the amount of the bonuses against the following year's cap.

According to figures distributed to each NFL team this week, 24 of the 32 NFL teams were given upward cap adjustments for 2008, six teams were given downward cap adjustments (thanks to conventional incentives that were met) and two teams had no adjustments.

According to this article, the Steelers have less money to spend under their 2008 cap than virtually any other team. How much that has to do with the Steelers not being cap savvy and how much has to do with a number of skill players (Ben & Willie P.?) meeting a lot of 2007 performance incentives that adversely hit the 2008 cap is unclear to me, but regardless of the reason the Steelers seemingly are on a tighter budget than any teams other than the Texans, Giants and Lions for 2008.

http://si.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=SI.com+-+Writers+-+Reuben+Frank%3A+Vikes%2C+Eagles+among+best+cap+ma nipulators+-+Saturday+March+1%2C+2008+2%3A09AM&expire=-1&urlID=26876432&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsportsillustrated.cnn.com%2F2008% 2Fwriters%2Freuben_frank%2F03%2F01%2Fcap.figures%2 Findex.html&partnerID=2356

Combine this linked data on the Steelers apparently not being particularly savvy in cap management with some less than stellar drafts and I am beginning to question whether the consistent rumor that Colbert will join up with Cowher when Cowher resumes coaching in 2009 would necessarily be an unfavorable development for the Steelers

wait so they write incentives just so it gives the players more desire to be good? but then take away they're oppurtunities and tax themselves basically? i dont understand... that's really really dumb.. :confused:

if colbert were to reunite with cowher somewhere i honestly wouldn't care too much...

Steeler in Carolina
03-01-2008, 04:50 PM
A couple of things I notice about the Steelers salary cap:

Cedrick Wilson has a very high number at 2 million.

Brett Keisel needs to produce. 4 million cap number in 2008

Hines Ward has an extremely high number. 7.4 million in 2008 (8.5 in 2009)

Atlanta Dan
03-01-2008, 04:53 PM
A couple of things I notice about the Steelers salary cap:

Cedrick Wilson has a very high number at 2 million.

Brett Keisel needs to produce. 4 million cap number in 2008

Hines Ward has an extremely high number. 7.4 million in 2008 (8.5 in 2009)

IMO Hines will take a haircut on the remaining years of his contract (The Bus can tell him how that works) or the Steelers will take the short term hit and say see ya

rbryan
03-01-2008, 07:34 PM
We need to make a long term deal with Hines. I'm thinking 10-12 years. Maybe back him for mayor when he's done playing, Rooneys could make it happen. lol

The Duke
03-01-2008, 07:44 PM
We need to make a long term deal with Hines. I'm thinking 10-12 years. Maybe back him for mayor when he's done playing, Rooneys could make it happen. lol

Rooneys are too cheap , even for politics :rolleyes: