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Lyn
10-31-2005, 03:34 PM
The MAC conference has produced Chad Pennington, Bryon Leftwich and Ben Roethlisberger. Did anyone of these 3 receive the Heisman Trophy? NO.

WHY? What is the crietria to win? This is an individual performace trophy, correct? NO

Check back into the history of this, the player HAS to be on a winning team from a Division A school, I think, please someone tell me I am wrong.

I mean look at the the 3 very current excellent football players that did not win the Heisman but yet now are phenominal football players in the NFL.

I wonder how many greats actually did win it. What about Vick, did he win the Heisman? How many NFL players have become really great players? Or did many of these guys develop into the greats they are?

Suitanim
10-31-2005, 06:16 PM
The Heisman is a popularity contest...even the selection committee will admit as much. It used to be a better gage of pro talent. Look at '76-88

1976 Tony Dorsett Pittsburgh RB Sr. 2,357
1977 Earl Campbell Texas RB Sr. 1,547
1978 Billy Sims Oklahoma RB Jr. 827
1979 Charles White USC RB Sr. 1,695
1980 George Rogers South Carolina RB Sr. 1,128
1981 Marcus Allen USC RB Sr. 1,797
1982 Herschel Walker Georgia RB Jr. 1,926
1983 Mike Rozier Nebraska RB Sr. 1,801
1984 Doug Flutie Boston College QB Sr. 2,240
1985 Bo Jackson Auburn RB Sr. 1,509
1986 Vinny Testaverde Miami (Fla) QB Sr. 2,213
1987 Tim Brown Notre Dame WR Sr. 1,442
1988 Barry Sanders Oklahoma State RB Jr. 1,878

Then look at '89-present...not quite as great a group...

1989 Andre Ware Houston QB Jr. 1,073
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB Jr. 1,482
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan WR Jr. 2,077
1992 Gino Torretta Miami (Fla) QB Sr. 1,400
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB Sr. 2,310
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB Jr. 1,743
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB Sr. 1,460
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB Sr. 1,363
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan CB Jr. 1,815
1998 Ricky Williams Texas RB Sr. 2,355
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB Sr. 2,042
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB Sr. 1,628
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB Sr. 770
2002 Carson Palmer USC QB Sr. 1,328
2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB Jr. 1,481
2004 Matt Leinart USC QB Jr. 1,325

Lyn
11-01-2005, 04:57 PM
If it is a popularity contest it holds NO merit in my book. What is the point of a popularity contest in deciding who is the BEST college footbll player?

BB2W
11-17-2005, 02:35 PM
I think Vince Young should win it this year. :twocents:

clevestinks
11-17-2005, 03:40 PM
Vince Young does seem the most deserving!

hmmmmmmmm
11-17-2005, 03:46 PM
Yeah ima have to agree with you two Vince is more deserving lol. Not only cause hes leading the team but its all on him everyone keys off of him and hes still having one hell of a year. Bush has lienart and lienhart has bush Vince doesnt have one of those but has a more complete team to me and leads em well.

Koopa
11-17-2005, 04:03 PM
even though i could care less about individual awards i would love to see vince young win it........i think he's number one on the espn heisman shit they have........i just hope everyone that votes for this see what hmmmmmmmmm just put. cause it's true, matt has reggie and vise versa. vince is the whole damn team

I.C. Lights
11-17-2005, 05:04 PM
I would go

1. Vince Young
2. Reggie Bush
3. Brady Quinn
4. Matt Leinart

It was a big mistake to pick Leinart last year, and the effects of that mistake will spill over into this year's poll too. Because Bush should have won last year, he may get votes this year that would probably otherwise go to Young.

It funny, and a bit sketchy, that both Quinn and Leinart's numbers are better this year than the numbers that won Leinart the Heisman last year.

BlitzburghRockCity
11-20-2005, 02:11 AM
There is NO way you can give it to anyone but reggie bush, IMO. Youngs is awesome, Leinart is great, there are alot of superb candidates, but this performance tonite of Bush, so far w/ 3 minutes to go in the game against Fresno State.. Bush has over 500 total yards!

hmmmmmmmm
11-20-2005, 03:21 AM
Well yeah but counting kickoffs...I mean youre almost guarenteed 20 yards everytime and they were able to return alot of kickoffs tonight. Vince had 500 total yards running and passing. No matter what Young does (even if Reggie Bush didnt have this type of night) I couldnt see him getting the Heisman.... to me its a little biased. It dont matter though Vince is almost a lock for it next year unless he gets injured.

BigSteelThrill
11-20-2005, 05:10 AM
Yep... its Bush's.

Young is at #2.


Noone else is in the race, and that includes Leinart.

clevestinks
11-20-2005, 05:45 AM
P.S.U. Mr.Robinson, I would like to see him get a chance to go to NY for the Heisman presentation. I know he doesnt have a shot at winning, but I think he deserves a few votes.

Koopa
11-20-2005, 06:24 PM
There is NO way you can give it to anyone but reggie bush, IMO. Youngs is awesome, Leinart is great, there are alot of superb candidates, but this performance tonite of Bush, so far w/ 3 minutes to go in the game against Fresno State.. Bush has over 500 total yards!


vince had 500+ on just throwing and running, reggie had it on running, recieving and kick and punt returns. vince deserves this just as much or more then bush. teams spend every wakin moment trying to figure out how to stop vince, teams got to worry about two ppl when they play usc.

Suitanim
11-20-2005, 06:42 PM
Matt has it right...when the #1 team gets in a challenging game, and they need a big time player to step up, and he does, to the tune of 500+ yards in ONE game, that's what wins Heisman's.

By the way, John Heisman was a coach in the early days of Akron's program.

BlitzburghRockCity
11-21-2005, 05:20 PM
vince had 500+ on just throwing and running, reggie had it on running, recieving and kick and punt returns. vince deserves this just as much or more then bush. teams spend every wakin moment trying to figure out how to stop vince, teams got to worry about two ppl when they play usc.

Taking nothing away from Vince, the guy is awesome and definately deserving of a heisman bid and a shot at the trophy.. I just gotta think Bush has it locked up, the guy does it all well, and comes thru in BIG way in BIG games.

Should be a close race this year.

Koopa
11-21-2005, 06:05 PM
Matt has it right...when the #1 team gets in a challenging game, and they need a big time player to step up, and he does, to the tune of 500+ yards in ONE game, that's what wins Heisman's.

By the way, John Heisman was a coach in the early days of Akron's program.


he returned kickoffs and punt returns, that free yards those don't mean shit. vince is better end of story. and will have a better career in the nfl as well. and if mack brown was as stupid as the USC coach and cheat to just pad stats vince will be the hands down winner, but since mack is smart and sits him in blow outs his numbers ain't as great. don't hate on vince cause he crushed y'all dreams of a national championship. bush will win on the simple fact that he's coming out this year.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/lucmclend20/vinceyoung.gif

RoethlisBURGHer
11-21-2005, 08:01 PM
The Heisman is a popularity contest,and if you don't play in a BCS conferance then you don't even get considered.

Suitanim
11-25-2005, 03:56 PM
Vince Young probably lost the Heisman today...his numbers were very average against one of the worst defenses in the country...

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2005, 04:33 PM
Probably Suitnam. Probably.

hmmmmmmmm
11-25-2005, 04:45 PM
Average???? This was far worse then average. I guess he let all the talk get to him but it doesnt matter hell get it next year

SteelCityMan786
11-25-2005, 04:52 PM
The numbers vice young put up are the worst I have seen him put up since the Ohio State game v.s. Texas

Koopa
11-25-2005, 05:42 PM
i think vince should cheat like bush and do kick and punt returns and then if they are up by 60 in the fourth, he should stay in and then just pad his stats, but then again who cares about stats all that matters is the W. he had shitty stats against ohio but at least he came out with the victory

Suitanim
11-25-2005, 05:54 PM
That's a poor argument...Reggie Bush would not be returning kicks and punts in most programs because being exposed out in space causes injuries, and no team wants to expose their best players to injury.

Also, when discussing stat padding, how much action has Matt Nordgren had this year?

Koopa
11-25-2005, 06:23 PM
That's a poor argument...Reggie Bush would not be returning kicks and punts in most programs because being exposed out in space causes injuries, and no team wants to expose their best players to injury.

Also, when discussing stat padding, how much action has Matt Nordgren had this year?

we get it suit you hate vince.............and if you watch texas games you would know in every blow out matt has played in the fourth quarter

BlitzburghRockCity
11-25-2005, 06:28 PM
Vince certainly didnt help his cause today, but he seems like a team kinda guy as far as I can tell and the bigger picture is the rose bowl game.. so yeah, Bush may very well get it, but wouldnt a show down between texas and USC just be a beast game!!! ??

hmmmmmmmm
11-25-2005, 06:35 PM
Also, when discussing stat padding, how much action has Matt Nordgren had this year?


Well lets see the first game he played a whole quarter, Ohio State he didnt play any, Rice Missouri and Oklahoma I know he played probably three quarters if you combine all three games, Colorado, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State he mights played about two qurters worth if you combine them all, Baylor & Kansas State He played about three quarters if you combine them and he didnt play any against A&M.

So id say he played about nine Quarters the stats dont show for him though cause we dont allow him to throw when he comes in.



Now what about Bush and Leinart?????

Suitanim
11-25-2005, 07:04 PM
I don't hate Vince Young...in fact, I think he may have a great NFL career ahead of him...just not at QB.

As far as Nordgren goes, the redshirt senior is 4-9 for 22 yards passing this year, and took a sack and had a pick in those 9 attempts. He also rushed 10 times for 29 yards and a TD...meaning he didn't play much, even in Texas blowouts.

The numbers tell the most important people (The Heisman commitee, not us) that Vince Young can play QB as good as anyone in college as long as he gets to run the ball a lot and doesn't have to play OSU every week.

He may well win the Heisman as a College QB...but Eric Crouch also won it as a College QB, and what's he doing now?

Koopa
11-25-2005, 07:13 PM
well it's very hard to have stats when you are handing off the ball to big ass melton in those blow outs. so no need to look at stats cause they won't tell you he's played much when in fact he has been out there in every blow out handing off

Suitanim
11-25-2005, 08:04 PM
Stats are a big part of the Heisman, since there's no way any of the guys on the committee come anywhere near getting to see all the top contenders on a regular basis during the season.

We all know stats lie...

hmmmmmmmm
11-25-2005, 08:28 PM
Yes but Vince Young has been resting in blowouts while Bush and Leinart are still in there when their winning by 30. Now I call that padding stats... Vince has missed out of two whole games if you count the quarters that we benched him in blowouts. If Nordgren doesnt throw or run then he doesnt get stats and when hes in we dont really allow him to throw so he will have no stats. I think if we left Young in for every game no matter the score he would be in the lead no matter what Bush did. We dont, we go for the bigger picture and try to keep our players healthy not win them awards. Which is a shame since Young is putting up better numbers then Leinart when he won the Heisman but like I said hell get in next year.

SalukiSteelers
11-26-2005, 12:06 AM
I gotta go with Bush, as well. The guy is just sick. Plus, he's an intregal part of a team that's won 32-straight. Oh yeah, Vince played like dogsh** today against A&M.

Koopa
11-26-2005, 12:26 AM
it don't matter, when vince is holding up the national championship and mvp trophy, the heisman will be a second thought on anyones mind. and vince will have no comp next year for the heisman so next year vince will get what he deserves

BB2W
12-10-2005, 01:00 PM
The fact that there were only three players invited is so stupid... it didn't bother me at first, but now I am really starting to question it. I relize that it is basically a three horse race, but there are other guys that deserve to be in the same room. Since when do you have to go undefeated to be up for the Heismen. I think one of the nation's leading rushers in Jerome Williams or DeAngelo Williams should be there. Brady Quinn has certainly made his case to be there. I am a homer, but I think Mike Robinson deserves to be up for the same award... if you watched every Ohio State game this season you could make a case for A.J. Hawk. If you slipped and considered the last three years of his career, he should definitly be there. I think this is BS...

By inviting a couple more guys you recognize what they have done, involve more fans, and certainly help a couple deserving athletes draft status. To be up for the same award as Young, Leinhart, and Bush would really help a young guy and university. For a guy like who may have a very short NFL career, it could be the highlight of his days as an athlete.


I am not watching tonight in protest. :grin:

Koopa
12-10-2005, 01:20 PM
they shouldn't even have invited vince and matt, reggie is gonna win by a shitload of votes and vince will come in at a far second place

SteelCityMan786
12-10-2005, 01:45 PM
Bush Will Probably Get Heisman. Vince Young Too Little Too Late.

Ambridge
12-10-2005, 06:55 PM
I think Bush has it all but locked-up, but strange things happen and maybe Young steals the Heisman in a shocker??

Whoever wins I hope the network doesn't drag the ceremony out for a ridiculous amount of time like they have the last few years before they announce the winner.

Koopa
12-10-2005, 06:58 PM
I think Bush has it all but locked-up, but strange things happen and maybe Young steals the Heisman in a shocker??

Whoever wins I hope the network doesn't drag the ceremony out for a ridiculous amount of time like they have the last few years before they announce the winner.


of course they are gonna drag this shit out, espn don't care about the winner they just want the ratings and dragging it out will help them out in the rating department...........anyway i hope tonight there is a big shocker that would be ****ing awesome if vince gets the heisman

SteelCityMan786
12-10-2005, 07:18 PM
I think Bush has it all but locked-up, but strange things happen and maybe Young steals the Heisman in a shocker??

Whoever wins I hope the network doesn't drag the ceremony out for a ridiculous amount of time like they have the last few years before they announce the winner.

Anything Is Possible. I thought That Bush had it rapped up but I also thought different when Young Got To Rest On a 70-3 Big XII Blowout.

Koopa
12-10-2005, 09:01 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOO

damn i sure do which mack brown wouldn't have sat vince young during blow outs so he can pad his stats just like them bastards as usc. i hope bush is a flop in the nfl for stealing what isn't his

SteelCityMan786
12-10-2005, 10:03 PM
HAHA I KNEW IT! Bush Won.

Koopa
12-10-2005, 10:06 PM
it was obvious he was gonna win, the media was on his nuts before the season started so no one had any real chance of winning unless he bush died. i was just hopeing these dickriders would be fare and give it to who really deserves it, oh well vince will get it next year cause it'll be the same as bush, the media will be on youngs nuts all summer and all season so if vince comes back don't even think someone else has a ligit chance

BlitzburghRockCity
12-10-2005, 10:11 PM
Bush was just too hot to not give him the trophy.. the man is just amazing.. Young deserved it just as much but this was just Reggie's time.

Congrats to all the entrants !!

:yy:

BB2W
12-11-2005, 12:56 AM
I saw Michael Robinson got 2 votes 1st place votes and 19 points total. :rolleyes:

Koopa
12-11-2005, 01:00 AM
it was probably that bastard jason white trying not to give a ut player any shine

SteelCityMan786
12-11-2005, 08:24 AM
Jason White Didn't want a shut out.

BigSteelThrill
12-12-2005, 06:13 AM
Grats to Reggie Bush, the best college football player in the nation.

Suitanim
12-12-2005, 10:52 AM
Yeah, no offense Koopa, but I think Bush was more deserving, but only slightly. Besides, the Heisman has been a bit of a curse for NFL players as of late...