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View Full Version : Justin Hartwig Signed By Steelers


aclark99
03-11-2008, 07:24 PM
The Panthers relesed C Justin Hartwig. He is only 29 and coming off a knee injury. This guy has only been in the league for 5-6 years. He was a solid center for the Titans and the Panthers. What do you all think about him in the middle of our line?

BlastFurnace
03-11-2008, 07:35 PM
I think he is worth a look as a short term solution...and I emphasize short term. That being said, seeing the emphasis that the Steelers are putting on getting younger, I seriously doubt that this guy gets a look from them.

19ward86
03-11-2008, 08:22 PM
we would need to release or trade sean mahan, he is a waste of space anyway.

Dylan
03-11-2008, 08:45 PM
only if he comes at a good price. like umm the minimum. what is the minimum salary for a player anyway?

lilyoder6
03-11-2008, 09:18 PM
for a young pup it's 750,000 for a vet i think it's like 1.25-1.5 mill not sure tho

Preacher
03-12-2008, 02:07 AM
I think usually, if you release a guy who was a solid center, it's because he WAS a solid center. Not because he still is. Doesn't seem like this would be the key signing that would push us (or any team) over the hump.

Not all the time. Many times they release a solid guy because they have a younger solid guy for less money.

If that is the case, with the trouble we have at center... I wouldn't be too unhappy, but better get that knee checked out.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-12-2008, 03:20 AM
Not all the time. Many times they release a solid guy because they have a younger solid guy for less money.

If that is the case, with the trouble we have at center... I wouldn't be too unhappy, but better get that knee checked out.

That is exactly what happened in this case...

Panthers released C Justin Hartwig.
Ryan Kalil will start at center. The Panthers had planned on having Hartwig slide over to the guard, but he was never keen on the idea so they tried to trade him. When they couldn't find a taker, they cut the injury-prone lineman.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=218

jjpro11
03-12-2008, 03:27 AM
That is exactly what happened in this case...

i remember Kalil's name being thrown around here a lot last year during draft time. but im glad we took woodley.

Galax Steeler
03-12-2008, 03:33 AM
If we could afford it I say sign him to league min.

Steel Pit
03-12-2008, 04:36 AM
only if he comes at a good price. like umm the minimum. what is the minimum salary for a player anyway?


NFL minimums increased $40,000 across the board from what was scheduled in 2006. The minimum salary for rookie or first-year players is $275,000; second year is $350,000; third year is $425,000; fourth year is $500,000; fifth-year through seventh year is $585,000; eighth year through 10th year is $710,000; and 11th year and longer is $810,000.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2361392

stlrtruck
03-12-2008, 07:50 AM
I seriously doubt that this guy gets a look from them.

You realize, BF, now that you've stated this you know he'll get a deal with the team (LOL). :sofunny:

Lord Stiller
03-12-2008, 07:54 AM
I hope we do try to get Hartwig

That is an instant upgrade over the disgrace we played at Center last season

SteelerFanInCA
03-12-2008, 11:27 AM
I say it's worth a shot if we can work him into the budget. This guy could still have some good years ahead of him.

Dino 6 Rings
03-12-2008, 11:31 AM
is he going to play free of charge?

I mean...in reality, everyone should want to play for the Glory of being a Steeler for free anyway...but I doubt it'll happen in this case.

Maybe we can sign him for a yearly subscription to Sports Illustrated and a box of donuts a week.

randy06
03-12-2008, 01:26 PM
we should be willing to take a chance on this guy he is 29, and ya he is coming off an injury but he may not be the best but if we can keep guys fresh and sub them in and out that could be better for ben

tony hipchest
03-12-2008, 01:39 PM
we should be willing to take a chance on this guy he is 29, and ya he is coming off an injury but he may not be the best but if we can keep guys fresh and sub them in and out that could be better for benthat doesnt work for the o-line. its primarily the defensive front 7 that is rotated and subbed to maintain freshness.

BlastFurnace
03-12-2008, 01:46 PM
You realize, BF, now that you've stated this you know he'll get a deal with the team (LOL). :sofunny:

LOL...Is that how it works.

If that's the case...they will never look at Bryant Johnson. :>)

Shoes
03-12-2008, 01:58 PM
After spending 102M on Ben I hope (trust) this team will get serious about an OL. Ben can't take another pounding this year and he shouldn't have too.

atlsteelers
03-14-2008, 11:52 AM
we already have a center - stapleton
we did not hold a roster spot for him all of last season for no reason.

Lord Stiller
03-14-2008, 12:12 PM
we already have a center - stapleton
we did not hold a roster spot for him all of last season for no reason.

then why didn't he play at all last season when Mahan was getting dominated all year?

DACEB
03-14-2008, 01:19 PM
then why didn't he play at all last season when Mahan was getting dominated all year?

That's a good question. Right along with, why didn't we just have a line made up of;

LT Smith
LG Faneca
C Simmons
RG Colon
RT Starks

BlastFurnace
03-14-2008, 03:49 PM
The Steelers met with Hartwig today

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08074/865241-66.stm

BettisFan
03-14-2008, 03:51 PM
I say we take a serious look at him.

lilyoder6
03-14-2008, 03:57 PM
nice.. nice to know we are kinda of active this yr

BlastFurnace
03-14-2008, 04:02 PM
This offseason has shown how thoroughly disgusted the coaching staff was with Mahan.

BettisFan
03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
lol lets hope he signs!

MDSteel15
03-14-2008, 04:23 PM
I say bring him in and give him a workout! See how the knee is holding up and then sign him to an incentive laiden contract....

lilyoder6
03-14-2008, 04:35 PM
nothing hurts us by bringing him in and testing him out

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-14-2008, 09:58 PM
we would need to release or trade sean mahan, he is a waste of space anyway.

Anybody know what the cap hit is on Mahan if he was to be released this year??


I think the fact that a couple centers have been thru this FA and the talk of Stapleton starting definately shows they are not happy with his play.

Lord Stiller
03-14-2008, 10:11 PM
I think the fact that a couple centers have been thru this FA and the talk of Stapleton starting definately shows they are not happy with his play.

too bad they didnt have the balls to do somethin about it last year when Mahan cost us our season

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-14-2008, 10:33 PM
too bad they didnt have the balls to do somethin about it last year when Mahan cost us our season

Not being able to stop the run after Smith went out at DE.

Not being able to convert 3rd and short or 4th and short because of poor line push, no FB and a 250lb back that likes to pretend he is 210lb.

Not being able to get any pass rush unless you sent 5 guys minimum.

Not having any kind of a run game after Parker got injured.

That is what cost the season, not Mahan. It was clear after 3/4 of the season that the Steelers wouldnt win the SB, so best to get whatever draft position they could and retool. I still wanna see mahan go.....he's crap at C and the #4 guard on the team.

BettisFan
03-14-2008, 11:05 PM
its mahans time to go!

Elvis
03-15-2008, 03:58 AM
we would need to release or trade sean mahan, he is a waste of space anyway.
Couldnt... and wouldnt think twice about it my friend
:coffee:

Elvis
03-15-2008, 03:59 AM
Not being able to stop the run after Smith went out at DE.

Not being able to convert 3rd and short or 4th and short because of poor line push, no FB and a 250lb back that likes to pretend he is 210lb.

Not being able to get any pass rush unless you sent 5 guys minimum.

Not having any kind of a run game after Parker got injured.

That is what cost the season, not Mahan. It was clear after 3/4 of the season that the Steelers wouldnt win the SB, so best to get whatever draft position they could and retool. I still wanna see mahan go.....he's crap at C and the #4 guard on the team.
:thumbsup:

Galax Steeler
03-15-2008, 06:32 AM
Lets sign this guy and let mahan go on his way.

Mistah_Q
03-15-2008, 09:11 AM
Will the front office fess up to a blunder so easily as cutting Mahan? Even if we brought in Mumm-ra the everliving to play center, I'm guessing Mahan will be playing guard in come capacity.

If they bring in someone and *do* cut Mahan. . well, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

lilyoder6
03-15-2008, 04:04 PM
they invested too much money in him to be cut after a yr ot two.. he either have a chance to play center of guard no matter what. unless he gets beat like crazy

Hapa
03-15-2008, 07:15 PM
He visited Pittsburgh too

Galax Steeler
03-16-2008, 06:17 AM
If we sign hartwig then that would give us more options in the draft.

Lord Stiller
03-16-2008, 07:59 AM
If we sign hartwig then that would give us more options in the draft.

If we sign Hartwig that would give us a better starting Center

Elvis
03-16-2008, 08:23 AM
Hartwig would be a nice upgrade and it would change alot of what the steelers would need to do in the upcoming draft in april. I think if the steelers select a C in this draft then it signifies that they are Not happy with Mahan.
:coffee:

lilyoder6
03-16-2008, 10:46 AM
who is happy with mahan?? sign him make mahan want to play either center or guard..

Galax Steeler
03-17-2008, 03:54 AM
If we sign Hartwig that would give us a better starting Center

That is so true.:thumbsup:

BlastFurnace
03-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Folks...he isn't coming here:

I got this from another board:

If the Steelers want him, they better not drag their feet too much longer...

Saints | Team showing interest in Hartwig
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:06:49 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) has received interest from the New Orleans Saints.


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Broncos | Team showing interest in Hartwig
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:06:32 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) has received interest from the Denver Broncos.


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Seahawks | Team showing interest in Hartwig
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:06:10 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) has received interest from the Seattle Seahawks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dolphins | Team showing interest in Hartwig
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:05:45 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) has received interest from the Miami Dolphins.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chargers | Team showing interest in Hartwig
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:04:43 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) has received interest from the San Diego Chargers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Titans | Team showing interest in Hartwig
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:04:26 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) has received interest from the Tennessee Titans.


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Chiefs | Hartwig to visit Sunday
Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:04:05 -0700

John Murphy, of Yahoo Sports, reports free-agent OL Justin Hartwig (Panthers) will visit the Kansas City Chiefs Sunday, March 16, according to his agent Drew Rosenhaus

lilyoder6
03-17-2008, 11:25 AM
wow.. thats a lot of teams going after him after a knee surgery i thought that the chargers o-line was just fine as it was

Haiku_Dirtt
03-17-2008, 11:41 AM
The Panthers relesed C Justin Hartwig. He is only 29 and coming off a knee injury. This guy has only been in the league for 5-6 years. He was a solid center for the Titans and the Panthers. What do you all think about him in the middle of our line?

I would look into a mushroom cloud if I knew it could help our line.

Galax Steeler
03-18-2008, 03:57 AM
With that many team interested in hartwig we probably won't get him.

RJC
03-18-2008, 05:21 PM
STEELERS GET A BLOCKER FOR BEN
Posted by Mike Florio on March 18, 2008, 6:18 p.m.
A year after signing center Sean Mahan as a free agent in the hopes that he would fill the void created by the retirement of Jeff Hartings, the Pittsburgh Steelers have added via free agency another new center, who might bump Mahan out of the position.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, the Steelers have agreed to terms with former Panthers center Justin Hartwig. Per Schefter, it?s a two-year deal worth roughly $4 million, with a $975,000 signing bonus.

Is Hartwig supplants Mahan, the former Bucs could possibly slide to guard.

Such instability at the center position is a dramatic change for the Steelers, who had only three starters at the position (Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson, and Hartings) for more than 30 years.

stillers4me
03-18-2008, 05:22 PM
Fingers crossed that PFT has it right!!

A year after signing center Sean Mahan as a free agent in the hopes that he would fill the void created by the retirement of Jeff Hartings, the Pittsburgh Steelers have added via free agency another new center, who might bump Mahan out of the position.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, the Steelers have agreed to terms with former Panthers center Justin Hartwig. Per Schefter, it?s a two-year deal worth roughly $4 million, with a $975,000 signing bonus.

Is Hartwig supplants Mahan, the former Bucs could possibly slide to guard.

Such instability at the center position is a dramatic change for the Steelers, who had only three starters at the position (Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson, and Hartings) for more than 30 years.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

stillers4me
03-18-2008, 05:23 PM
Be still my heart.....I'm not used to all this FA activity by my Steelers!

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 05:25 PM
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL! thank g-d!! And they listened to my good friend Albert Einstein! Nice we got a line (or some what of one!)

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Fingers crossed that PFT has it right!!

A year after signing center Sean Mahan as a free agent in the hopes that he would fill the void created by the retirement of Jeff Hartings, the Pittsburgh Steelers have added via free agency another new center, who might bump Mahan out of the position.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, the Steelers have agreed to terms with former Panthers center Justin Hartwig. Per Schefter, it?s a two-year deal worth roughly $4 million, with a $975,000 signing bonus.

Is Hartwig supplants Mahan, the former Bucs could possibly slide to guard.

Such instability at the center position is a dramatic change for the Steelers, who had only three starters at the position (Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson, and Hartings) for more than 30 years.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

Yeah!!!! If this is correct then it means that the Steelers probably only draft an OT this season and get the future center in the 09 draft.

That frees up picks on CB, DE, WR, FS, RB/FB to round out my draft board.

:banana:

Black@Gold Forever32
03-18-2008, 05:27 PM
Looks like I can take center of my draft board for the Steelers....Which is good I hate the centers in this draft..Only one i really like is Doug Legursky....I don't expect Hartwig to be great....I just hope he is better then Mahan....Plus I hope Stapleton gets a crack also....Stapleton is an unknown but he deserves a chance to start....

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 05:28 PM
Yeah!!!! If this is correct then it means that the Steelers probably only draft an OT this season and get the future center in the 09 draft.

That frees up picks on CB, DE, WR, FS, RB/FB to round out my draft board.

:banana:

And that helps us alot, now hmmm who will we draft?

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-18-2008, 05:28 PM
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL! thank g-d!! And they listened to my good friend Albert Einstein! Nice we got a line (or some what of one!)

My Man....how can you go from a sentance that included " oline man.....dum" in one post then eloquently post a quote from Einstein?????

either way, I'm glad they are listening to you and hopefully Shefter is right that we have a new Center.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 05:30 PM
lol i meant O Linemen

HometownGal
03-18-2008, 05:30 PM
If this is indeed true, it hasn't been reported yet on any of our local news channels, but I would be happy with the signing! :cheers:

I think moving Mahan to his most familiar position at G will also be a good move. :thumbsup:

Merging threads.

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 05:33 PM
Man I hope it's true. If it is then we truely can draft who ever we want.
LT Smith
LG Mahan
C Hartwig
RG Simmons
RT Starks

I think Mahan can redeem himself by returning to his natural position. Great news, thanks!

polamalu82
03-18-2008, 05:37 PM
Man I hope it's true. If it is then we truely can draft who ever we want.
LT Smith
LG Mahan
C Hartwig
RG Simmons
RT Starks

I think Mahan can redeem himself by returning to his natural position. Great news, thanks!

Hell ya!!..........but what do we talk about now?:sofunny:

BlastFurnace
03-18-2008, 05:37 PM
I AM SHOCKED. YES...I AM YELLING FOR JOY!

TackleMeBen
03-18-2008, 05:37 PM
does this mean that ben wont be on his padded rear as much??? lol

RJC
03-18-2008, 05:41 PM
I just don't think we're going to be so OL crazy this draft. As of now we have Smith, Kemoeatu, Mahan, Simmons, Colon, Essex, Hartwig, and Starks all under contract. That doesn't leave much room for any draftees. That is unless there's going to be a surprise cut, which is totally possible....

stillers4me
03-18-2008, 05:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3300560

Steelers agree to contract with ex-Panthers center Hartwig
By John Clayton
ESPN.com
With their offensive line in transition with the departure of Alan Faneca, the Pittsburgh Steelers found a new anchor to their line by reaching a two-year, $4 million deal with former Carolina Panthers center Justin Hartwig.


Included in the deal is a $975,000 signing bonus.


Hartwig was released by the Panthers a week ago in order to give Ryan Kalil the chance to start at center. The Panthers considered moving him to guard but decided it was better to part ways.

Over the past two years, the Steelers have lost a Pro Bowl guard, Faneca, to free agency and lost a former Pro Bowl center, Jeff Hartings, to retirement. Acquiring Hartwig gives the interior of the Steelers line more versatility.

With Hartwig on board, he could start at center and allow Sean Mahan to move to one of the guard spots.

The deal was negotiated by Drew Rosenhaus, who has done $440 million of contracts this offseason.

John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 05:58 PM
Hava Nagila HAva NAGILA HAVA NAGALIA CHEY MITZVEH HAH!! This is great !! I am so happy!

stillers4me
03-18-2008, 06:01 PM
I gotta go sit down............

The Steelers never do this in FA...........


I'm not really sure how to react............


:jawdrop:

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 06:04 PM
Dance the Hava Nagila bro it helps

BlastFurnace
03-18-2008, 06:04 PM
Nice signing that takes away some of the sting of losing Faneca. We got a younger player, a former All Pro...at a position we desparately needed to upgrade for a very small amount of money. I thought we would need to spend considerably more to sign Hartwig....shows what I know.

I'm seeing a line and depth that looks this:

LT: Smith, Essex
LG: Mahan, Kemo, Rookie
C: Hartwig, Stapleton
RG: Simmons, Kemo,
RT: Colon, Essex

Now, it becomes really interesting to see what happens with Max.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm diggin it still thing we should draft a LG though

stillers4me
03-18-2008, 06:07 PM
:wink02:Dance the Hava Nagila bro it helps

Actually, I'm a Steelers sista, but what ever works.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 06:11 PM
:wink02:

Actually, I'm a Steelers sista, but what ever works.

haha sorry my bad :dang:, but yea go for it!

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 06:14 PM
Hell ya!!..........but what do we talk about now?:sofunny:

Well, we can continue the discussion in another thread (by a Browns fan) that no matter what the Steeler's do, the Brownies are going to win the Division and the SB in 08.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 06:19 PM
yes but we all no where thats going and we are gunna win so i guess it might be fun?...

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 06:21 PM
yes but we all no where thats going and we are gunna win so i guess it might be fun?...

Outside Cleveland it's known as "Fantasizing."

jjpro11
03-18-2008, 06:26 PM
yes yes yes!!!

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 06:27 PM
Outside Cleveland it's known as "Fantasizing."

haha lol nice :thumbsup:, hey so back to Hartwig where does he rank in nfl starting centers?

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 06:31 PM
haha lol nice :thumbsup:, hey so back to Hartwig where does he rank in nfl starting centers?

Good question. Unfortunately, work has blocked all the main sports sites (i'm hoping they spare the Steelers Fever Forum :hope:). So if you find out, please post it here.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 06:42 PM
ok in order best to worser player

Saturday- colts
Birk - vikings
Kruetz -bears
Koppen - PAts
Guriode- Dallas
Hardwick- chargers
Mawe- titans
Meester- chargers
Ohara- giants
mangold- jets
jackson - eagles
Hartwig- Steelers
Wells- packers

( i am gunna stop there)

xXTheSteelKingsXx
03-18-2008, 06:46 PM
Nice move. Glad to see we now have a good center on the roster.

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 06:48 PM
Signing Hartwig is a big F U to Mahan

and i like it

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 06:48 PM
ok in order best to worser player

Saturday- colts
Birk - vikings
Kruetz -bears
Koppen - PAts
Guriode- Dallas
Hardwick- chargers
Mawe- titans
Meester- chargers
Ohara- giants
mangold- jets
jackson - eagles
Hartwig- Steelers
Wells- packers

( i am gunna stop there)

Not bad. Heck, a closer examination may put him in the top 10. It's definitely and upgrade and again, Mahan deserves a shot at his natural position.

steelymcmatt
03-18-2008, 06:48 PM
Looks like I can take center of my draft board for the Steelers....Which is good I hate the centers in this draft..Only one i really like is Doug Legursky....I don't expect Hartwig to be great....I just hope he is better then Mahan....Plus I hope Stapleton gets a crack also....Stapleton is an unknown but he deserves a chance to start....

Not sure we don't take a flyer on a center or guard in rounds 5-7. Probably means we go d-line or corner/safety...GRR, now I have to re-do my whole board. Someone call Kevin and tell him to stop improving the team through free agency, gives me more work to do!

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 06:51 PM
will everyone quit crying about Mahan playing guard

Mahan sucks period

Simmons, Colon, Kemo area all way way way way better than Mahan for playing guard

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 06:57 PM
will everyone quit crying about Mahan playing guard

Mahan sucks period

Simmons, Colon, Kemo area all way way way way better than Mahan for playing guard

Why does Mahan suck? How do you know Simmons, Colon and Kemo are better? Not everyone can make the switch from Guard to Center. They gave it a shot and it didn't work out.

BTW - No one is crying about anything.

TackleMeBen
03-18-2008, 06:57 PM
I gotta go sit down............

The Steelers never do this in FA...........


I'm not really sure how to react............


:jawdrop:
breath there stillers.. we need you around for the season.. and i still havent seen any new pics of that new grandbaby:flap:

Edman
03-18-2008, 07:04 PM
Not too excited, but it's nice to know that the Steelers now have a true center on the roster. The Steelers have been getting by on an emergency backup throughout 2007. Mahan is not a Center.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 07:14 PM
Not too excited, but it's nice to know that the Steelers now have a true center on the roster. The Steelers have been getting by on an emergency backup throughout 2007. Mahan is not a Center.

come on man get pumped! its offseason we gotta make the best of it.

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 07:25 PM
I'll be excited if Ben isn't hitting the turf 4,5,6 times a game every game and actually gets more than a second-and-a-half to progress through his reads this coming season and not before. I'd never even heard of Hartwig before this week, so I have a feeling it isn't Mike Webster reincarnated that we just signed.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 07:31 PM
I and most people dont hear of centers very often only big names like Kruetz and Saturday and Ohara i mean they are o linemen lol

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 07:33 PM
I and most people dont hear of centers very often only big names like Kruetz and Saturday and Ohara

Yeah, that's because they're the best at what they do, which leads me to believe this guy is a middle-of-the-pack kinda guy at best.

TackleMeBen
03-18-2008, 07:37 PM
I'll be excited if Ben isn't hitting the turf 4,5,6 times a game every game and actually gets more than a second-and-a-half to progress through his reads this coming season and not before..
i am sure the turf will be excited too.. he is a big boy hurting the poor turf :sofunny:

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 07:44 PM
Why does Mahan suck? How do you know Simmons, Colon and Kemo are better? Not everyone can make the switch from Guard to Center. They gave it a shot and it didn't work out.

BTW - No one is crying about anything.

Mahan played guard in Tampa BAy and sucked, he was solely responsible for nearly having QB Chris Sims killed

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 07:44 PM
Yea well mabey Ben will be alot fresher each game due to less sackage

TackleMeBen
03-18-2008, 07:51 PM
Yea well mabey Ben will be alot fresher each game due to less sackage
he will have more sackage.. as in 102 milliion dollars more..lol:wink02:

SteelCityMan786
03-18-2008, 07:51 PM
I smell this is more of a depth move. Though after how Mahan was last year, a move to pick up a Center would be good this year.

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 07:52 PM
Mahan played guard in Tampa BAy and sucked, he was solely responsible for nearly having QB Chris Sims killed

In know he played Guard in Tampa Bay and I know Chris Simms suffered a serious internal injury, but in all the articles I read I don't recall a thing about Mahan being responsible. In fact, I recall thinking highly of him when he came here, and hoping that he could make the transition. Obviously, it wasn't to be.

I think he will take over at LG in place of Faneca and I think he will do pretty good. In any event, we shall see.

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 07:53 PM
he will have more sackage.. as in 102 milliion dollars more..lol:wink02:

Typical woman...it's all about Bens Benjamins. :sofunny:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-18-2008, 07:58 PM
Nice signing that takes away some of the sting of losing Faneca. We got a younger player, a former All Pro...at a position we desparately needed to upgrade for a very small amount of money. I thought we would need to spend considerably more to sign Hartwig....shows what I know.

I'm seeing a line and depth that looks this:

LT: Smith, Essex
LG: Mahan, Kemo, Rookie
C: Hartwig, Stapleton
RG: Simmons, Kemo,
RT: Colon, Essex

Now, it becomes really interesting to see what happens with Max.

Most feel that Colon is more suited to play Guard, so pencil him in behind Kemo at left guard. Then maybe factor in that a rookie will backup at tackle because Smith is most likely gone after this season.

If Starks signs, then that is one O lineman too many, so the odd man out is either Mahan or Stapleton.

If Starks doesnt sign, then the 09 starting tackles will be that Rookie and back to Colon or Essex........yeesh.

The last option is that Starks doesnt sign and they use that money to extend Smith. Then the 09 starting tackles are Smith and the 08 rookie draft pick with Essex and Colon the others that can play tackle.

stillers4me
03-18-2008, 07:58 PM
Typical woman...it's all about Bens Benjamins. :sofunny:

So that's why they call them benjamins. :dang:

:smile:

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 07:58 PM
he will have more sackage.. as in 102 milliion dollars more..lol:wink02:

Haha nice i want more sackage... (wait eww that can be thought of weird..)

HometownGal
03-18-2008, 08:14 PM
will everyone quit crying about Mahan playing guard

Mahan sucks period

Simmons, Colon, Kemo area all way way way way better than Mahan for playing guard

And you know this......how? He was highly regarded at his position in Tampa Bay.

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 08:24 PM
And you know this......how? He was highly regarded at his position in Tampa Bay.

It's been documented and I have posted a link before. Just because you don't know something doesn't make it not true. Run a search here for 'Mahan and Sims' if you want to see

If Mahan was so highly regarded in Tampa, then why did they let him walk without even attempting to resign him? think about it

ShutDown24
03-18-2008, 08:29 PM
If Mahan was so highly regarded in Tampa, then why did they let him walk without even attempting to resign him? think about it

Because the price tag to keep him in Tampa as a backup was too high...

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 08:32 PM
Because the price tag to keep him in Tampa as a backup was too high...

Sorry everyone Mahan is not good lets not put him on a pedestal :blah:

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 08:33 PM
Because the price tag to keep him in Tampa as a backup was too high...

exactly. Mahan is not good enough to be a starter

ShutDown24
03-18-2008, 08:37 PM
exactly. Mahan is not good enough to be a starter

So I guess that means Michael Turner isn't starter material? He was a backup in San Diego for years... Wow, Atlanta blew that signing then... Maybe Matt Shaub isn't a good player in Houston either... Or how about James Harrison? He didn't break the line-up over Porter here until he was almost 30... Dang, that point just rocked my world.

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 08:39 PM
So I guess that means Michael Turner isn't starter material? He was a backup in San Diego for years... Wow, Atlanta blew that signing then... Maybe Matt Shaub isn't a good player in Houston either... Or how about James Harrison? He didn't break the line-up over Porter here until he was almost 30... Dang, that point just rocked my world.

All excellent points. Thank you Shutdown. :cheers:

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 08:39 PM
So I guess that means Michael Turner isn't starter material? He was a backup in San Diego for years... Wow, Atlanta blew that signing then... Maybe Matt Shaub isn't a good player in Houston either... Or how about James Harrison? He didn't break the line-up over Porter here until he was almost 30... Dang, that point just rocked my world.

Touche

ShutDown24
03-18-2008, 08:41 PM
All excellent points. Thank you Shutdown. :cheers:

Lol thanks... Not trying to be over sarcastic here, but Mahan is a scapegoat. Sure, he isn't a top linemen in the league, but he isn't HORRIBLE either. I would argue Faneca had just as bad a season.

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 08:44 PM
Lol thanks... Not trying to be over sarcastic here, but Mahan is a scapegoat. Sure, he isn't a top linemen in the league, but he isn't HORRIBLE either. I would argue Faneca had just as bad a season.

The OL actually gave up 2 more sacks (49 vs. 47) in '06, sans Mahan, than they did in '07.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 08:44 PM
We should have kept Alan

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 08:45 PM
We should have kept Alan

Not at $8 million per season.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 08:48 PM
Well now we have tons of issues i dunno might have been worth it...

faneca05
03-18-2008, 08:48 PM
Even if we do move mahan to guard i still think we should draft somebody to challenge him for the job

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 08:52 PM
With what pick thats the question should we really use our first pick on that?

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 08:54 PM
Even if we do move mahan to guard i still think we should draft somebody to challenge him for the job

We have two guys who can do that now. If they have to look at O-Line I'd look for a tackle, either to groom in place of Smith when he's done or to replace Starks if he departs for whatever reason.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 08:55 PM
Lets not jinx it and hope Starks stays

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 08:57 PM
So I guess that means Michael Turner isn't starter material? He was a backup in San Diego for years... Wow, Atlanta blew that signing then... Maybe Matt Shaub isn't a good player in Houston either... Or how about James Harrison? He didn't break the line-up over Porter here until he was almost 30... Dang, that point just rocked my world.

what the hell are you talking about?

Mahan got his chance to start in Tampa, he sucked and they let him walk

you aren't making sense

Lord Stiller
03-18-2008, 08:59 PM
Lol thanks... Not trying to be over sarcastic here, but Mahan is a scapegoat. Sure, he isn't a top linemen in the league, but he isn't HORRIBLE either. I would argue Faneca had just as bad a season.

And yes, Mahan is horrible

anyone who thinks otherwise is either a homer or really lacking knowledge of the game at football

RJC
03-18-2008, 09:03 PM
And yes, Mahan is horrible

anyone who thinks otherwise is either a homer or really lacking knowledge of the game at football

Mahan has problems with huge DT's playing the "Zero" on him. I do think he'd be better suited to play OG....

NJarhead
03-18-2008, 09:03 PM
And yes, Mahan is horrible

anyone who thinks otherwise is either a homer or really lacking knowledge of the game at football

You mean anyone who disagrees with you......

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 09:05 PM
You mean anyone who disagrees with you......

well in other words.. :blah:

dunkuntou
03-18-2008, 09:06 PM
So I guess that means Michael Turner isn't starter material? He was a backup in San Diego for years... Wow, Atlanta blew that signing then... Maybe Matt Shaub isn't a good player in Houston either... Or how about James Harrison? He didn't break the line-up over Porter here until he was almost 30... Dang, that point just rocked my world.

This is such a dumb argument the Mod should take it off the board. Lets stop and think for a second...Tampa Bay didn't want to even try to re-sign Mahan and they had terrible line play in 2006 (there offensive line was much better in 2007).

Your examples are horrendous. Those players weren't starting because they weren't valuable they weren't starting because the player ahead of them (LaDanian Tomlinson, Michael Vick and Joey Porter) were franchise players or Pro Bowlers.

Don't drink and drive and think before you post

lilyoder6
03-18-2008, 09:08 PM
:o

too many teams are looking at him 4 us to sign him at a decent contract

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 09:10 PM
:o

too many teams are looking at him 4 us to sign him at a decent contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3300560

Dylan
03-18-2008, 09:16 PM
i agree mahan isnt that good, but i think he will be a good backup though...maybe

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 09:16 PM
This is such a dumb argument the Mod should take it off the board. Lets stop and think for a second...Tampa Bay didn't want to even try to re-sign Mahan and they had terrible line play in 2006 (there offensive line was much better in 2007).

Your examples are horrendous. Those players weren't starting because they weren't valuable they weren't starting because the player ahead of them (LaDanian Tomlinson, Michael Vick and Joey Porter) were franchise players or Pro Bowlers.

Don't drink and drive and think before you post

Burn baby Burn :flap:

All great points :cheer:

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 09:20 PM
This is such a dumb argument the Mod should take it off the board. Lets stop and think for a second...Tampa Bay didn't want to even try to re-sign Mahan and they had terrible line play in 2006 (there offensive line was much better in 2007).

Your examples are horrendous. Those players weren't starting because they weren't valuable they weren't starting because the player ahead of them (LaDanian Tomlinson, Michael Vick and Joey Porter) were franchise players or Pro Bowlers.

Don't drink and drive and think before you post

Except our OL sucked just as bad in '06 without Mahan as it did in '07. As SD24 pointed out, Mahan was a scapegoat. How did he make things worse when the '06 edition of the OL allowed two more sacks on the year than the '07 edition? Granted, he wasn't an improvement, but he didn't singlehandedly make things worse, either.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 09:22 PM
Except our OL sucked just as bad in '06 without Mahan as it did in '07. As SD24 pointed out, Mahan was a scapegoat. How did he make things worse when the '06 edition of the OL allowed two more sacks on the year than the '07 edition?

Yea well in 06-07 Ben wasnt the most sacked QB and last year (07-08) he was

fansince'76
03-18-2008, 09:24 PM
Yea well in 06-07 Ben wasnt the most sacked QB and last year (07-08) he was

In '06, the OL allowed TWO more sacks than it did in '07. The OL was NOT better in '06.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 09:25 PM
dang and again

TOuche

Wow we need to up our game this year

Edman
03-18-2008, 09:41 PM
The problem with the Steelers O-Line was defending guys up the middle, not the sides.

Mahan wasn't perfect, but how about placing blame on Alan Faneca and Kendall Simmons? Oh, and in 2006, we had Jeff Hartings at Center.

BettisFan
03-18-2008, 09:44 PM
haha Oh jeff

OneForTheToe
03-19-2008, 12:44 AM
I agree that our centers have been underperforming for years. Jeff Hartings had lost his ability to play big nose tackles effectively due to a decline in his physical abilities (no cartilage in his knees - ouch). Of course, Hartings was very cerebral and was able to make up for his lack of skills a bit almost until end. I just don't think Mahan gets the mental part of playing center.

If I could sum up what the Steelers are up to so far with the O'line I would say Options. With the signing of Hartwig we now have three options at center. Similarly, we now have three options at the vacant guard (Kemo, Mahan or Colon) and tackle (Essex, Colon or Starks, if signed) positions even before the draft. Do I think these options will likely lead to a great o'line next year? No.... but it could lead to a much improved overall line, which is about all you expect, particularly when you lose your best lineman.

Going back to the first part of this post, I still believe that if we can find a center who can play up to the massive NT’s in the AFC (see e.g. - Jacksonville, San Diego and New England, Baltimore and now maybe Cleveland) the whole line will suddenly look a whole lot better.

Da Steeler Soprano
03-19-2008, 02:43 AM
OK Im not going to make this long because Im sure someone somewhere in some hidden corner on this site already posted the offcial thread about Hartwigs signing, and this one will be shut down but oh well!

This is a GREAT signing at a damn good price!

LT-M.Smith or Essex (you know Smith will be injured at some point)
LG- Mahan
C- Hartwig
RG- Simmons
RT- Colon or Starks

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-19-2008, 03:10 AM
Steelers reach deal with free-agent center Hartwig
By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, March 19, 2008

A week ago, Justin Hartwig turned down an offer to remain with the Carolina Panthers as a guard so he could play center with another team.
On Tuesday, Hartwig and the Steelers agreed to a two-year contract worth $3.725 million including a $975,000 signing bonus, creating a logjam at center while adding versatility to the offensive line.

Hartwig, who started 15 games at center for Carolina in 2007, will likely compete with Sean Mahan, who started all 16 games with the Steelers last season.

Given that Mahan signed a $17 million free-agent deal, the addition of Hartwig could also signal Mahan's move to guard and explain why the Steelers re-signed restricted free agent Chris Kemoeatu to a second-round tender yesterday instead of offering him a multiyear contract.

Kemoeatu will receive $1.47 million in 2008.
The Steelers also re-signed restricted free agent tackle Trai Essex yesterday, who will receive $927,000 next season.

Kemoeatu has two starts in three seasons and was expected to compete for the starting left guard spot after veteran Alan Faneca signed with the New York Jets.

Yesterday's offensive line transactions could result in a competition between Kemoeatu and Mahan at left guard. Mahan made 28 starts at guard (including nine at left guard) with Tampa Bay.

Kemoeatu's lack of starting experience made it difficult to negotiate a long-term deal, agent Kenneth Vierra said.

"We did have talks. It didn't look like it was really going to happen in terms of a long-term deal," Vierra said. "Trying to put a value on a guy that hasn't played that much was going to be hard to do."

From the Steelers' viewpoint, Kemoeatu, the 204th player selected in the 2005 draft, is a promising talent with upside. That's why the club gave Kemoeatu a second-round tender. Another team would have had to relinquish a second-round pick to the Steelers to sign Kemoeatu. Kemoeatu received no offers from other teams.

Hartwig, 29, was Tennessee's sixth-round draft pick in 2002. He also visited the Kansas City Chiefs before signing with the Steelers.

Hartwig signed a $17 million free-agent deal with Tennessee two years ago but missed most of the 2006 season with a groin injury. He was released last week after declining Carolina's offer to switch to guard because it would have forced him to play out of position.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557926.html

Galax Steeler
03-19-2008, 03:51 AM
I agree that our centers have been underperforming for years. Jeff Hartings had lost his ability to play big nose tackles effectively due to a decline in his physical abilities (no cartilage in his knees - ouch). Of course, Hartings was very cerebral and was able to make up for his lack of skills a bit almost until end. I just don't think Mahan gets the mental part of playing center.

If I could sum up what the Steelers are up to so far with the O'line I would say Options. With the signing of Hartwig we now have three options at center. Similarly, we now have three options at the vacant guard (Kemo, Mahan or Colon) and tackle (Essex, Colon or Starks, if signed) positions even before the draft. Do I think these options will likely lead to a great o'line next year? No.... but it could lead to a much improved overall line, which is about all you expect, particularly when you lose your best lineman.

Going back to the first part of this post, I still believe that if we can find a center who can play up to the massive NT?s in the AFC (see e.g. - Jacksonville, San Diego and New England, Baltimore and now maybe Cleveland) the whole line will suddenly look a whole lot better.

I have to agree with the signing of hartwig the line defenitley looks better.:cheers:

Galax Steeler
03-19-2008, 03:54 AM
I really like the sighning it puts a whole new look on the line this year.

Dino 6 Rings
03-19-2008, 08:18 AM
all I can say is Wow...I really didn't think they'd address Center in the FA market.

I'm very impressed by this signing.

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 08:28 AM
Yea well in 06-07 Ben wasnt the most sacked QB and last year (07-08) he was

Oh I get it. Mahan allowed all of those sacks. Gotcha. :rolleyes:

In 2006 during Mahan's tenure as a G with TB, the Bucs QB's were sacked 33 times. In 2006 without Mahan on the roster, Ben was sacked 49 times. Do the math.

I seriously hope that those of you who want to throw Mahan under the bus after a season where he wasn't playing his natural position have employers who give you more than seven months to prove your worth. :dang:

ShutDown24
03-19-2008, 09:48 AM
Oh I get it. Mahan allowed all of those sacks. Gotcha. :rolleyes:

In 2006 during Mahan's tenure as a G with TB, the Bucs QB's were sacked 33 times. In 2006 without Mahan on the roster, Ben was sacked 49 times. Do the math.

I seriously hope that those of you who want to throw Mahan under the bus after a season where he wasn't playing his natural position have employers who give you more than seven months to prove your worth. :dang:


Really, if any of these people had to learn a new trade and perfect it within a translated amount of time to a season, and they got fired for poor performance, it would be 'unheard of’! :rolleyes:

The only way Mahan deserves the kind of pounding he is receiving now is if he was on all 5 positions of that line. He was one. The line let up the sacks, not Mahan. Now, unless someone here has been an offensive line coach before and actually knows how to watch O-line film - Then STFU.

OneForTheToe
03-19-2008, 10:22 AM
This really makes our draft interesting. I know some here were expecting 3 or more picks of o'linemen, but that would seem even more unlikely now. We have to pick guys who can make the team. There might only be one position available on the roster for an o'linemen now. Now I am thinking one o'linmen on each day is probably about is probably the max.

Lord Stiller
03-19-2008, 11:01 AM
This really makes our draft interesting. I know some here were expecting 3 or more picks of o'linemen, but that would seem even more unlikely now. We have to pick guys who can make the team. There might only be one position available on the roster for an o'linemen now. Now I am thinking one o'linmen on each day is probably about is probably the max.

I still think we should get a tackle. This year's draft is loaded with good tackles.

I hope we get WR James Hardy and an offensive tackle with our first 2 picks

Lord Stiller
03-19-2008, 11:04 AM
Now, unless someone here has been an offensive line coach before and actually knows how to watch O-line film - Then STFU.[/B]

right back at you. you obviously didnt pay attention to Mahan's play last season. He was dominated in every game. Blind homer fans need to STFU up here. Mahan will not be starting next season mark my words. Who will Mahan start over? Simmons and Kemo will be the guards.

Dino 6 Rings
03-19-2008, 11:15 AM
This allows the ability to draft for our future, instead of drafting to throw a young guy right to the wolves. Kind of like how we took care of our LB situation last season. We won't need to draft LB for a while now, not for a stater. (If they both pan out and play up to our expectations that is)

So now, we can draft a Young tackle, and maybe a young D-lineman, and then a Guard and plan for years to come.

Great move getting this guy. I'm very happy. I've been calling for a new center all off season. Mahan needs to play his natural position.

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 11:30 AM
or Felix..?

Rotorhead
03-19-2008, 11:32 AM
I personally hope we draft an LT or Center first, I am not so worried about anything else for next season (well maybe the schedule a bit).

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 11:32 AM
Lets not start about the schdual i dont want to ruin my day

Dino 6 Rings
03-19-2008, 12:24 PM
right back at you. you obviously didnt pay attention to Mahan's play last season. He was dominated in every game. Blind homer fans need to STFU up here. Mahan will not be starting next season mark my words. Who will Mahan start over? Simmons and Kemo will be the guards.

I tend to agree, Faneca had to help on the inside a lot, when Mahan would get beat in blocking and that in turn took Faneca away from helping on the outside, which allowed for a DE to beat a tackle and caused a breakdown in the pocket.

It was frustrating to watch, but he was better than Chuck O, who was cut from us, and then the Cards mid season.

This is a great signing, and hopefully, Stapelton can learn from the Veteran and be ready to take over should he be called upon.

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 12:28 PM
I tend to agree, Faneca had to help on the inside a lot, when Mahan would get beat in blocking and that in turn took Faneca away from helping on the outside, which allowed for a DE to beat a tackle and caused a breakdown in the pocket.

It was frustrating to watch, but he was better than Chuck O, who was cut from us, and then the Cards mid season.

This is a great signing, and hopefully, Stapelton can learn from the Veteran and be ready to take over should he be called upon.

Mahan isnt a starter he should be a backup

Dino 6 Rings
03-19-2008, 01:47 PM
Mahan isnt a starter he should be a backup

you're entitled to your opinion but since he is a natural OG not C, I'd like to see him get his chance to show what he can do at his preferred position.

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 01:54 PM
well thats what the preseason is for

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 02:01 PM
right back at you. you obviously didnt pay attention to Mahan's play last season. He was dominated in every game. Blind homer fans need to STFU up here. Mahan will not be starting next season mark my words. Who will Mahan start over? Simmons and Kemo will be the guards.

And you need to watch your cybermouth, LS. Just because some of us don't want to throw a guy under the bus after 1 season playing in a position where he has had limited playing time during his career doesn't mean we are blind homers. I personally watched Mahan at TC last season and he is as strong as an ox. Big Snack was getting terribly frustrated not being able to get past him. XT can verify this fact. So what if he let a guy through him here and there - Faneca (who is a multiple Pro Bowler), Starks (before his injury) and the rest of the line were all responsible for Ben's high sack total.

FYI - this is a board of opinions and if our opinions differ from yours, debate the post instead of attacking the poster. Thanks.

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 02:03 PM
Mahan isnt a starter he should be a backup

He's not starting C material, but he is most definitely a starter at the G position, imo.

Lord Stiller
03-19-2008, 03:04 PM
And you need to watch your cybermouth, LS.

so it's alright for someone to use that language if they agree with your opinion????

look at what i quoted

dont be a hypocrite

Lord Stiller
03-19-2008, 03:06 PM
He's not starting C material, but he is most definitely a starter at the G position, imo.

He'll get his 'chance' to start just like everyone else. Fortunately this coming year we will have lots of players to compete and earn a starting job

Mahan will be sitting the bench come next year, we have much better options at guard

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 03:12 PM
what ever lets just wait and see who we draft and sign

Rotorhead
03-19-2008, 03:16 PM
Now I am happy, SB here we come!!:tt02:

For the second time in little more than a year, the Steelers signed a free agent they expect to become their starting center, one of three moves made yesterday to strengthen their offensive line.

Justin Hartwig, released last week by Carolina even though he was their starting center, came to a two-year contract agreement with the Steelers for $3,725,000 and a signing bonus of $975,000.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Justin Hartwig
Age: 29
Position: Center
College: Kansas
Drafted: 6th round of the 2002 draft by the Tennessee Titans.
Years pro: 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last year, the Steelers signed Sean Mahan from Tampa Bay for $17 million over five years with a $4 million signing bonus to become their starting center. However, they were not satisfied with Mahan's performance in 2007 and went looking for a replacement.

Mahan, like Hartwig, also can play guard. He and Hartwig will compete at center, but Mahan likely will become the swing man as a backup at guard and center. Chris Kemoeatu is the heir apparent to Alan Faneca as the starting left guard but it's possible Mahan also could compete for that job.

The Steelers yesterday announced that Kemoeatu and offensive tackle Trai Essex had signed one-year contract tenders as free agents.

The club did not announce the signing of Hartwig.

The Panthers released Hartwig, 29, in a shakeup of veterans in their offensive line. Carolina also released starting left guard Mike Wahle.

Two years ago, Hartwig signed a five-year, $17 million contract with Carolina as an unrestricted free agent from the Tennessee Titans.

"We had decided to go in another direction at center and Justin would have been able to come in and compete for the starting spot at right guard," Carolina general manager Marty Hurney said March 11 after releasing Hartwig.

"But we decided probably the right thing to do for Justin was make this move now and see if he can get with a team that would consider him as a starter at center."

Hartwig (6-4, 312) missed all but one game of the 2006 season with a groin injury. He missed the last game of last season in Carolina after his right MCL in his knee was sprained Dec. 24.

Hartwig played at the University of Kansas, where he started three seasons at right tackle and was a sixth-round draft choice of the Titans in 2002.

He became their starting center in '03 and started every game but one for them over the next three seasons before leaving for Carolina as an unrestricted free agent.

Hartwig will become part of a shakeup in the Steelers offensive line for the second year in a row, only in a different manner than existed for him with the Panthers.

It appears now that the offensive line could have two and perhaps three new starters next season.

Last season, the Steelers had two new starters in the line.

Faneca left as a free agent to sign with the New York Jets, and now they have a new center in Hartwig. If they keep their transition player, Max Starks, he will get an opportunity to compete for the job he lost to Willie Colon at right tackle last season.

Mahan, who played for the Buccaneers when Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin was Tampa Bay's secondary coach, replaced retired Pro Bowl center Jeff Hartings last season. He started every game after a training-camp competition with holdover Chukky Okobi, who was released.

However, Mahan did not have the bulk at 6-3, 301 to handle some of the bigger nose tackles he faced, and he lost weight as the season wore down. At less than 300 pounds, he went up against some nose tackles who outweighed him by almost 100 pounds.

Strengthening their offensive line was a stated goal of Tomlin this year. While the Steelers were the No. 3 rushing team in the NFL, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was sacked 47 times, second most by a quarterback in team history.

"We have to play better," Tomlin said about his offensive line after the 2007 season. "We have to get better technicians. We have to communicate better. We have to coach better."

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Now I am happy, SB here we come!!:tt02:

For the second time in little more than a year, the Steelers signed a free agent they expect to become their starting center, one of three moves made yesterday to strengthen their offensive line.

Justin Hartwig, released last week by Carolina even though he was their starting center, came to a two-year contract agreement with the Steelers for $3,725,000 and a signing bonus of $975,000.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Justin Hartwig
Age: 29
Position: Center
College: Kansas
Drafted: 6th round of the 2002 draft by the Tennessee Titans.
Years pro: 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last year, the Steelers signed Sean Mahan from Tampa Bay for $17 million over five years with a $4 million signing bonus to become their starting center. However, they were not satisfied with Mahan's performance in 2007 and went looking for a replacement.

Mahan, like Hartwig, also can play guard. He and Hartwig will compete at center, but Mahan likely will become the swing man as a backup at guard and center. Chris Kemoeatu is the heir apparent to Alan Faneca as the starting left guard but it's possible Mahan also could compete for that job.

The Steelers yesterday announced that Kemoeatu and offensive tackle Trai Essex had signed one-year contract tenders as free agents.

The club did not announce the signing of Hartwig.

The Panthers released Hartwig, 29, in a shakeup of veterans in their offensive line. Carolina also released starting left guard Mike Wahle.

Two years ago, Hartwig signed a five-year, $17 million contract with Carolina as an unrestricted free agent from the Tennessee Titans.

"We had decided to go in another direction at center and Justin would have been able to come in and compete for the starting spot at right guard," Carolina general manager Marty Hurney said March 11 after releasing Hartwig.

"But we decided probably the right thing to do for Justin was make this move now and see if he can get with a team that would consider him as a starter at center."

Hartwig (6-4, 312) missed all but one game of the 2006 season with a groin injury. He missed the last game of last season in Carolina after his right MCL in his knee was sprained Dec. 24.

Hartwig played at the University of Kansas, where he started three seasons at right tackle and was a sixth-round draft choice of the Titans in 2002.

He became their starting center in '03 and started every game but one for them over the next three seasons before leaving for Carolina as an unrestricted free agent.

Hartwig will become part of a shakeup in the Steelers offensive line for the second year in a row, only in a different manner than existed for him with the Panthers.

It appears now that the offensive line could have two and perhaps three new starters next season.

Last season, the Steelers had two new starters in the line.

Faneca left as a free agent to sign with the New York Jets, and now they have a new center in Hartwig. If they keep their transition player, Max Starks, he will get an opportunity to compete for the job he lost to Willie Colon at right tackle last season.

Mahan, who played for the Buccaneers when Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin was Tampa Bay's secondary coach, replaced retired Pro Bowl center Jeff Hartings last season. He started every game after a training-camp competition with holdover Chukky Okobi, who was released.

However, Mahan did not have the bulk at 6-3, 301 to handle some of the bigger nose tackles he faced, and he lost weight as the season wore down. At less than 300 pounds, he went up against some nose tackles who outweighed him by almost 100 pounds.

Strengthening their offensive line was a stated goal of Tomlin this year. While the Steelers were the No. 3 rushing team in the NFL, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was sacked 47 times, second most by a quarterback in team history.

"We have to play better," Tomlin said about his offensive line after the 2007 season. "We have to get better technicians. We have to communicate better. We have to coach better."

All i can say is we are really making progress and obviously the organization thinks we can do something this year!

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 03:23 PM
People - PLEASE - check to see if a recent thread has been started on a topic you are thinking of posting. Thanks.

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 03:32 PM
Really, if any of these people had to learn a new trade and perfect it within a translated amount of time to a season, and they got fired for poor performance, it would be 'unheard of’! :rolleyes:

The only way Mahan deserves the kind of pounding he is receiving now is if he was on all 5 positions of that line. He was one. The line let up the sacks, not Mahan. Now, unless someone here has been an offensive line coach before and actually knows how to watch O-line film - Then STFU.

As I posted to LS - please knock off attacking the poster. Debate the post!!!!

There LS - happy? With all of the posts Gary and I read every day, I missed ShutDown's unsavory comment - I beg for your forgiveness. :nw: btw - I don't appreciate being called a hypocrite because of an oversight.

Regarding Mahan - we'll have to agree to disagree.

Dylan
03-19-2008, 03:33 PM
so i think our line will look like this then next year.

LT- Marvel Smith
LG-Willie Colon
C- Jeff Hartwig
RG-Kendall Simmons
RT- Max Starks

i put starks in because if we pay him 6.9 mil or whatever the transition tag is worth he better start in my opinion.

that line actually doesnt look half bad either

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 03:50 PM
so i think our line will look like this then next year.

LT- Marvel Smith
LG-Willie Colon
C- Jeff Hartwig
RG-Kendall Simmons
RT- Max Starks

i put starks in because if we pay him 6.9 mil or whatever the transition tag is worth he better start in my opinion.

that line actually doesnt look half bad either

and no mahan, we really just have to hope we can work somethign out with max starks, if we do than i dont think we need to draft a lineman in the first 2 rounds.

Rotorhead
03-19-2008, 04:07 PM
I dont think my post was the same as this thread, besides, this thread has turned in to a yelling match of almost 17 pages, which I got tired of reading at page 6 of the arguments. If in fact Hartwig's signing was in this post, weeding through 17 pages of stupid arguments about the worth of mahan and personal attack to find it is not how I want to spend my day.

fansince'76
03-19-2008, 05:27 PM
I dont think my post was the same as this thread, besides, this thread has turned in to a yelling match of almost 17 pages, which I got tired of reading at page 6 of the arguments. If in fact Hartwig's signing was in this post, weeding through 17 pages of stupid arguments about the worth of mahan and personal attack to find it is not how I want to spend my day.

So we should allow you to clutter up the board by starting duplicate threads because you find skimming an already-existing thread about the same player "inconvenient?"

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 05:54 PM
bad and stupid reasoning man, if your on a forum your going to have to read.....

Lord Stiller
03-19-2008, 06:02 PM
All i can say is we are really making progress and obviously the organization thinks we can do something this year!

Very good point. The most important thing is that we are addressing our biggest weakness from last season, the offensive line

It will be exciting to see what we do in the draft. You can bet on one of our top 2 picks being an offensive lineman. Maybe the guard Albert or one of the tackle prospects.....good news, gotta protect our 100 million dollar man!

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 06:05 PM
Very good point. The most important thing is that we are addressing our biggest weakness from last season, the offensive line

It will be exciting to see what we do in the draft. You can bet on one of our top 2 picks being an offensive lineman. Maybe the guard Albert or one of the tackle prospects.....good news, gotta protect our 100 million dollar man!

I think Ben will be more confident with a fresher line, also any one remember Ben saying he wanted a tall reciever??? Well lets get him one!

Lord Stiller
03-19-2008, 07:34 PM
also any one remember Ben saying he wanted a tall reciever??? Well lets get him one!

Yes! I have been predicting our first pick of the draft to be WR James Hardy who is very big and very good

We draft Hardy, then an offensive lineman, then a defensive end for our 3-4

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 07:37 PM
Yes! I have been predicting our first pick of the draft to be WR James Hardy who is very big and very good

We draft Hardy, then an offensive lineman, then a defensive end for our 3-4

That would be tight with James Hardy it would be a smart pick to.

lilyoder6
03-19-2008, 07:38 PM
we need to do something with mahan whether him playing, getting a reconstructured deal.. or some thing.. i could still see takeing a o-lineman early just to start grooming them

dunkuntou
03-19-2008, 07:39 PM
Really, if any of these people had to learn a new trade and perfect it within a translated amount of time to a season, and they got fired for poor performance, it would be 'unheard of?! :rolleyes:

The only way Mahan deserves the kind of pounding he is receiving now is if he was on all 5 positions of that line. He was one. The line let up the sacks, not Mahan. Now, unless someone here has been an offensive line coach before and actually knows how to watch O-line film - Then STFU.

Mahan does deserve a pounding and he knows it too. We got destroyed all year long by defensive tackles and thats no help to what his poor play ALL YEAR LONG.

Dylan
03-19-2008, 08:11 PM
I think Ben will be more confident with a fresher line, also any one remember Ben saying he wanted a tall reciever??? Well lets get him one!

a fresher line? u need chemistry for an offensive line to be great. the steelers line this year might be good, but not greeat. you need chemistry

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 08:14 PM
a fresher line? u need chemistry for an offensive line to be great. the steelers line this year might be good, but not greeat. you need chemistry
well yea it takes time for that... years

Rotorhead
03-19-2008, 09:14 PM
OK you know I am so sick of the assholes that frequent these forums (and moderators). This thread turned into a stupid argument about Mahan on page 5 or so and is pointless. The title says nothing about him being signed for sure, and there are other threads about other players being signed (are there not?) I was trying to do a service to the forum and started a thread that stated that he was in fact ACTUALLY signed so the people that try to keep things civil didnt have to "skim" through 17 pages of BS about how good or bad Mahan was. I dont consider that cluttering the forum. I thing the NAZI mods here should have closed this thread a long time ago instead of adding to the personal attacks. I used to frequent this forum because it was not like the rest with the morons just trying to show off how bit their E-Penis's were but now this is turning into that. I feel I have always contributed positively to this forum in the past, and am not sure if I will continue any contributions in the future.

lilyoder6
03-19-2008, 09:21 PM
:o

we were just talking about y we needed to sign him and y we thought mahan had a bad yr.. don't have to be so mean

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 09:32 PM
OK you know I am so sick of the assholes that frequent these forums (and moderators). This thread turned into a stupid argument about Mahan on page 5 or so and is pointless. The title says nothing about him being signed for sure, and there are other threads about other players being signed (are there not?) I was trying to do a service to the forum and started a thread that stated that he was in fact ACTUALLY signed so the people that try to keep things civil didnt have to "skim" through 17 pages of BS about how good or bad Mahan was. I dont consider that cluttering the forum. I thing the NAZI mods here should have closed this thread a long time ago instead of adding to the personal attacks. I used to frequent this forum because it was not like the rest with the morons just trying to show off how bit their E-Penis's were but now this is turning into that. I feel I have always contributed positively to this forum in the past, and am not sure if I will continue any contributions in the future.

There, there, Rotorhead - don't blow an artery. I changed the title to reflect Hartwig's signing - all better now? I merged the threads because that is what we are asked to do here - see the COC for further validation on that. Look - we don't make the rules. We are asked to enforce them and that is what we try to do. We aren't "Nazi's". We don't get paid for our efforts, nor do we receive health benefits, 401(k)'s or an expense account. :wink02: At the time I merged the threads, the Hartwig signing was a RUMOR and I changed the title to reflect the same.

Again - just because we are Mods doesn't mean that we aren't entitled to chip in our two cents or not disagree with a poster. We are regular members first just like you. As long as we don't violate the COC that we are asked to enforce and ask everyone else to abide by, our opinions are just as relevant and should be just as much respected as any other member's post(s).

I'd like you to hang around as I've enjoyed many of your posts, but if you choose not to do so, that is your perogative. I think your words above were quite harsh and very unfair. Last but not least, you have only added to the negativity that exists in the first half of this thread which you yourself are complaining about. :mallet:

EDIT: I have posted the relevant COC below:

1. Do not post topics or replies containing:

-Subjects which have already been discussed numerous times (please search first).

P.S. HEIL!

BettisFan
03-19-2008, 09:37 PM
OK you know I am so sick of the assholes that frequent these forums (and moderators). This thread turned into a stupid argument about Mahan on page 5 or so and is pointless. The title says nothing about him being signed for sure, and there are other threads about other players being signed (are there not?) I was trying to do a service to the forum and started a thread that stated that he was in fact ACTUALLY signed so the people that try to keep things civil didnt have to "skim" through 17 pages of BS about how good or bad Mahan was. I dont consider that cluttering the forum. I thing the NAZI mods here should have closed this thread a long time ago instead of adding to the personal attacks. I used to frequent this forum because it was not like the rest with the morons just trying to show off how bit their E-Penis's were but now this is turning into that. I feel I have always contributed positively to this forum in the past, and am not sure if I will continue any contributions in the future.

Jesus man come on chill out those were rude harsh things said, to compare mods to Nazis!! unbeilevable, thats just something i dont tolerate, your ignorant and i wont say that becuase i dont wanna be kicked off (banned) like your going to be. Nazis went and killled 6,000,000 of my people and to compare nice people like the mods of SF to them is just wrong plain wrong. Watch what you say thing first.

HometownGal
03-19-2008, 09:42 PM
Jesus man come on chill out those were rude harsh things said, to compare mods to Nazis!! unbeilevable, thats just something i dont tolerate, your ignorant and i wont say that becuase i dont wanna be kicked off (banned) like your going to be. Nazis went and killled 6,000,000 of my people and to compare nice people like the mods of SF to them is just wrong plain wrong. Watch what you say thing first.

Bettis - while I appreciate the support, don't add fuel to the fire. That kind of defeats the purpose. :cheers: Let's get this thread back on track.

Petesburgh66
03-20-2008, 12:07 AM
I am not sure what Hartwig brings to the table.

Regardless, the Steelers still need to address the O-line in the draft for this year. It has been a problem and ignored for two straight seasons.

BettisFan
03-20-2008, 12:16 AM
I am not sure what Hartwig brings to the table.

Regardless, the Steelers still need to address the O-line in the draft for this year. It has been a problem and ignored for two straight seasons.

He brings a solid starting center to the steelers.

Galax Steeler
03-20-2008, 03:46 AM
I just hope he has healed from his injuries and can play solid football next year.

Lord Stiller
03-20-2008, 07:36 AM
I am not sure what Hartwig brings to the table.

Regardless, the Steelers still need to address the O-line in the draft for this year. It has been a problem and ignored for two straight seasons.

He brings himself to the table which is better than Mahan

revefsreleets
03-20-2008, 09:24 AM
There will be healthy competition at just about every line position this year. I wouldn't be shocked to see:

LT- Starks*
LG- Mahan
C- Hartwig
RG- Simmons
RT-Essex/Colon battle winner

*I have a feeling Smith may be finished with his back injury

Lord Stiller
03-20-2008, 09:53 AM
Starks has shown to be a good LT and a crappy RT

LT- Starks
LG- Simmons
C- Hartwig
RG- Kemo/Colon
RT- Smith

it's hard to predict now because we will likely draft an lineman with one of our first 2 picks and they could start

Rotorhead
03-20-2008, 10:51 AM
Ok so I apologize for being so harsh, just had a bad day and vented on this forum. Sorry for everyone I offended.

fansince'76
03-20-2008, 10:53 AM
Ok so I apologize for being so harsh, just had a bad day and vented on this forum. Sorry for everyone I offended.

No offense taken here. :cheers:

HometownGal
03-20-2008, 01:43 PM
There will be healthy competition at just about every line position this year. I wouldn't be shocked to see:

LT- Starks*
LG- Mahan
C- Hartwig
RG- Simmons
RT-Essex/Colon battle winner

*I have a feeling Smith may be finished with his back injury

This is the line I think will be starting the season. :thumbsup:

Rotohead - no problem hon. We all have bad days. :cheers:

Midnightwriter7
03-20-2008, 08:57 PM
I hope we do draft a lineman with out first pick and I like the pick up of hartwig.. I would rather have too many lineman and be able to play people at the positions they are best at than doing the filing in and playing out of position. I think was a good pick up and I am excited to see which OL we will take with our first pick !!

steelymcmatt
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
Ok so I apologize for being so harsh, just had a bad day and vented on this forum. Sorry for everyone I offended.

I'm highly offended.....not sure I can ever forgive you. Wait, I'm over it!:cheers:

steelymcmatt
03-21-2008, 12:21 PM
We should have kept Alan

I know this may be considered sacriligious (anyone have spellcheck):) but I'm not sure Alan best days aren't behind him.....particularly when it comes to pass blocking. I still think he's a PREMIER run blocker, but it seems to me he's lost a step or two over the last 2 years when it comes to pass blocking. I certainly don't think our line problems were his fault, nor were they Mahan's fault.....I think there were a number of other factors:
1. Big Ben's 1st year calling the protections
2. A lack of chemistry, the most important incredient in O-line play (constantly
switching people around in preseason didn't help here)
3. Injuries
Just my two cents!:computer:

The Duke
03-21-2008, 12:38 PM
I know this may be considered sacriligious (anyone have spellcheck):) but I'm not sure Alan best days aren't behind him.....particularly when it comes to pass blocking. I still think he's a PREMIER run blocker, but it seems to me he's lost a step or two over the last 2 years when it comes to pass blocking. I certainly don't think our line problems were his fault, nor were they Mahan's fault.....I think there were a number of other factors:
1. Big Ben's 1st year calling the protections
2. A lack of chemistry, the most important incredient in O-line play (constantly
switching people around in preseason didn't help here)
3. Injuries
Just my two cents!:computer:

I agree except in one thing....a lot was mahan's fault, he's not a center. he will be given his chance to play guard, but at center he was just totally dominated.

but yeah, the line needs chemistry, and that isn't achieved overnight, it takes time and a little bit of suffering, unfortunately our qb is the one who has to deal with the suffering

BettisFan
03-21-2008, 02:42 PM
I agree except in one thing....a lot was mahan's fault, he's not a center. he will be given his chance to play guard, but at center he was just totally dominated.

but yeah, the line needs chemistry, and that isn't achieved overnight, it takes time and a little bit of suffering, unfortunately our qb is the one who has to deal with the suffering

I bet mahan wont even be that good at his "natural" position, lets kick him to the curb! :banana:

Elvis
03-21-2008, 04:54 PM
I love the signing and I hope that the Steelers can consentrate on G and T now. This guy will be our starter for the next few years. The Rooneys made a great choice in my opinion.
:tt02:

Lord Stiller
03-21-2008, 06:26 PM
I bet mahan wont even be that good at his "natural" position, lets kick him to the curb! :banana:

no kidding

i have no idea why so many people think he will be good at guard

domthebomb228
03-22-2008, 11:34 AM
a fresher line? u need chemistry for an offensive line to be great. the steelers line this year might be good, but not greeat. you need chemistry

I agree with you to a certain extent... chemistry is important but so is talent. We could keep the same lineup we have at OL for the next 3 years, and they'd develop this chemistry, but that wouldn't stop Mahan from getting mauled or missing assignments every other play. With the departure of Faneca, we have ZERO reliable offensive lineman right now. We need some fresh talent, thats for sure.

revefsreleets
03-22-2008, 02:56 PM
I bet mahan wont even be that good at his "natural" position, lets kick him to the curb! :banana:

Ever hear the expression "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? Your post was an absolutely brilliant practical application of it...

BettisFan
03-22-2008, 11:00 PM
Ever hear the expression "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? Your post was an absolutely brilliant practical application of it...

no lol i have never heard what does that mean

nicesteel4life
03-22-2008, 11:16 PM
Welcome Justin! You'll look good in Black N Gold!
Mahan! Listen, you got a few months to get ready to show what you got at guard!
Hope your working out or your going to get CUT!

Steel Buckeye
03-23-2008, 09:45 AM
I'm glad they finally wised up and got a center that isn't playing out of position. Mahan is nothing more than a backup.

revefsreleets
03-24-2008, 09:44 AM
no lol i have never heard what does that mean



throw (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/throw) the (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the) baby (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/baby) out (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/out) with (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with) the (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the) bathwater (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bathwater)

(idiomatic (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#I)) To discard (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discard) something valuable (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/valuable), often inadvertently (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inadvertently), in the process (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/process) of removing waste (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/waste). They cancelled the entire project because the new management didn't like the prototype, but I think they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

kochmanski
03-24-2008, 11:15 AM
Stupid question...

Anyone know why Hartwig's signing hasn't been mentioned by some of the bigger sports sites? Like SI.com? Or profootballweekly.com?

Or why Hartwig's name isn't on the Steelers.com roster, yet? Fox and Moore have both been added, already.

Is the Hartwig signing not "officially" official yet or something? What gives?

millwalldavey
03-24-2008, 07:59 PM
ESPN has it on the FA Tracker

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?newTeamId=23&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2ffa%3fnewTeamId%3d23

lilyoder6
03-24-2008, 08:44 PM
maybe the ppl on the site are just lazy.. nfl network has him as a key offseason aquisition.. and blah blah blah.. has he been to the workouts yet??

VTsteel
03-24-2008, 09:28 PM
I'm glad they finally wised up and got a center that isn't playing out of position. Mahan is nothing more than a backup.


For what it's worth . . . Jeff Hartings was a guard with the Lions before we converted him to center in 2001. Converting a guard to center is not always a bad idea . . . and worth the attempt. That being said - Mahan's attempt failed. I'm glad we're bringing in Hartwig (maybe he'll give us 2 or 3 good years - maybe)

Side note on Hartwig . . . "In 2003, he started every game at center for Titans and helped Steve McNair lead the league in passing while Eddie George recorded his seventh 1,000-yard rushing season. He was a member of offensive line ranked tied for sixth in the league in fewest sacks allowed with 25. The offense ranked fourth overall in the AFC (eighth in NFL). Hartwig won starting center job with four preseason starts after never playing center prior to training camp. He started 47 games in 3 years.

Hartwig was a right tackle in college

Galax Steeler
03-25-2008, 04:56 AM
maybe the ppl on the site are just lazy.. nfl network has him as a key offseason aquisition.. and blah blah blah.. has he been to the workouts yet??

I don't know if he has been at workouts yet I was on the steelers web site and they were showing pictures of the team workouts and I didn't see him.

Kindjunior
03-25-2008, 08:13 AM
i say we clone Dermonti Dawson :wink02:

Lord Stiller
03-25-2008, 08:16 AM
For what it's worth . . . Jeff Hartings was a guard with the Lions before we converted him to center in 2001. Converting a guard to center is not always a bad idea . . . and worth the attempt. That being said - Mahan's attempt failed. I'm glad we're bringing in Hartwig (maybe he'll give us 2 or 3 good years - maybe)

Hartings was a PRO BOWL 1st rd pick guard before moving to center. Dermontti Dawson also started at guard.

Mahan was a bum at guard and a bum at center

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-25-2008, 08:42 AM
Hartings was a PRO BOWL 1st rd pick guard before moving to center. Dermontti Dawson also started at guard.

Mahan was a bum at guard and a bum at center

Yeah, I seem to remember ESPN saying Hartings signing by the Steelers was one of the biggest free agent moves of that season. Mahan was released by the Bucs from a team that needed line help. In hindsight, it was a bad waste of cap space.

fansince'76
03-25-2008, 08:49 AM
Hartings was a PRO BOWL 1st rd pick guard before moving to center. Dermontti Dawson also started at guard.

Mahan was a bum at guard and a bum at center

Hartings (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HartJe55.htm) made the Pro Bowl (2004, 2005) and was an All-Pro (2001, 2004) twice in his career, all with the Steelers and all after he switched to center. As far as being a 1st round pick at OG goes, so was Robert Gallery. Draft order means about jack to me - hell, Dirt Dawson was a 2nd rounder and Webster was a 5th rounder. I just want to clear up the misconception that Hartings was a perennial All-Pro/Pro Bowler when he was in Detroit, because the simple fact is he wasn't. And to mention Hartings in the same breath with Dirt Dawson is laughable. As much as Hartings was a better OL than Mahan is, Dirt was just as much better than Hartings. Hartings was a very good player, but Dirt was a great player.

revefsreleets
03-25-2008, 08:49 AM
From Tampa's website...dude doen't sound like a bum to me:

Powerful offensive lineman with starting experience at both guard and center... Wide-bodied, agile offensive guard who displays quickness off the snap... Started all 16 games at right guard in 2005… Gained starting experience at center (eight games) in 2004 following C John Wade’s season-ending injury... Played in 41 career games with 24 starts... Has now started 24 consecutive regular season games (eight games at center in 2004 and 16 games at right guard in 2005)… Also started one postseason game… One of two rookie offensive linemen to make the opening day roster in 2003… Drafted in the fifth round (168th overall) of the 2003 NFL Draft by the Buccaneers.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-25-2008, 10:12 AM
From Tampa's website...dude doen't sound like a bum to me:

.
How many NFL sites are gonna post "lacks ideal size and strength but has potential"????

Here is one that does from BucNews.com http://www.bucnews.com/2007/03/11/steelers-add-mahan.html

Mahan lacks ideal size and power, but is a decent athlete who understands the game well. He relies a lot on technique and will struggle at times against top competition when his technique is off.


and here are a couple posts from a a bucs fan a year ago when he signed... pretty prophetic huh:dang:
The majority of you obviously have never seen him play. The guy is not very good. That poster, "Man of Steel" is about the only one who seems to get it. Mahan is a backup guard, and not a very good one at all. He might be a servicable center one day, but then again that was just a hope and a dream Bucs fans hung onto after seeing how poorly he worked out at guard. His first game starting at center was in 2004, and our QB was sacked (I want to say) 8-10 times that day.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3604
I don't want to be all doom and gloom

I liked Sean Mahan. I thought the Bucs would resign him, withg littlew competition, for maybe 2 mil per year and a small signing bonus. Mahan has no future at Guard. In fact if he is starting at guard there is a good chance your season isnt going the way you wanted it to

As a center his lack of strength is less of an issue. Or atleast it seemed that way. He has a good head on his shoulders. He is a decent athlete but nothign special. He is smallish without NFL caliber strength. Honestly he falt out got destroyed anytime we facxed a really good DT when he was at guard

Maybe this guy knows next weeks lotto numbers too..

DACEB
03-25-2008, 11:18 AM
How many NFL sites are gonna post "lacks ideal size and strength but has potential"????

Here is one that does from BucNews.com http://www.bucnews.com/2007/03/11/steelers-add-mahan.html

Mahan lacks ideal size and power, but is a decent athlete who understands the game well. He relies a lot on technique and will struggle at times against top competition when his technique is off.


and here are a couple posts from a a bucs fan a year ago when he signed... pretty prophetic huh:dang:
The majority of you obviously have never seen him play. The guy is not very good. That poster, "Man of Steel" is about the only one who seems to get it. Mahan is a backup guard, and not a very good one at all. He might be a servicable center one day, but then again that was just a hope and a dream Bucs fans hung onto after seeing how poorly he worked out at guard. His first game starting at center was in 2004, and our QB was sacked (I want to say) 8-10 times that day.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3604
I don't want to be all doom and gloom

I liked Sean Mahan. I thought the Bucs would resign him, withg littlew competition, for maybe 2 mil per year and a small signing bonus. Mahan has no future at Guard. In fact if he is starting at guard there is a good chance your season isnt going the way you wanted it to

As a center his lack of strength is less of an issue. Or atleast it seemed that way. He has a good head on his shoulders. He is a decent athlete but nothign special. He is smallish without NFL caliber strength. Honestly he falt out got destroyed anytime we facxed a really good DT when he was at guard

Maybe this guy knows next weeks lotto numbers too..

Wow, this is disturbing, to think that the staff thought he would be an upgrade and to sign him for the kind of money he got. It really makes you wonder WTF is going on with the staff and their evaluation of players. That makes two huge blunders last season on the O-line alone. First the idiotic signing of Mahan and then the benching of Starks, only to transition tag him this year. I really hope Hartwig turns out to be the starter we need at center.

fansince'76
03-25-2008, 11:35 AM
Wow, this is disturbing, to think that the staff thought he would be an upgrade and to sign him for the kind of money he got. It really makes you wonder WTF is going on with the staff and their evaluation of players.

No, all it really does is show me that there are a ton of armchair GMs out there that like to second-guess every move the organization makes.

tony hipchest
03-25-2008, 11:38 AM
Wow, this is disturbing, to think that the staff thought he would be an upgrade and to sign him for the kind of money he got. It really makes you wonder WTF is going on with the staff and their evaluation of players. That makes two huge blunders last season on the O-line alone. First the idiotic signing of Mahan and then the benching of Starks, only to transition tag him this year. I really hope Hartwig turns out to be the starter we need at center.maybe our brand new o-line coach shoulda been browsing some fansites, and doing a little more research instead of surfing porn on the net.

:hunch:

mahan is small. kelly greg and hiloti nagata (?whatever) are LARGE. seems simple.

lilyoder6
03-25-2008, 11:55 AM
we were gonna need a stronger center to go up with the nt and dt from the division this yr.. with rogers and williams from the browns.. the fat asses from the ravens.. and i really don't know the d0line 4 the bengals..

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-25-2008, 11:57 AM
No, all it really does is show me that there are a ton of armchair GMs out there that like to second-guess every move the organization makes.

True, but I liken this to our losing Oliver Ross.

Ross couldnt handle the speed guys and resulted in Maddox being sacked a lot. Then Ben shows up and avoids dozens of sacks where Ross couldnt block the DE and all of a sudden he is a prized pickup by the Cardinals.

I saw that Ross was overrated and never lost any sleep when he left, just as that Bucs fan could objectively see Mahan was getting blown up by DT's, but was more productive at center against the 4-3 defenses that Carolina, New Orleans and Atlanta played.

The Mahan experiment was a bust and some Tampa fans saw it coming for the Steelers.

Lord Stiller
03-25-2008, 12:06 PM
True, but I liken this to our losing Oliver Ross.

Ross couldnt handle the speed guys and resulted in Maddox being sacked a lot. Then Ben shows up and avoids dozens of sacks where Ross couldnt block the DE and all of a sudden he is a prized pickup by the Cardinals.

I saw that Ross was overrated and never lost any sleep when he left, just as that Bucs fan could objectively see Mahan was getting blown up by DT's, but was more productive at center against the 4-3 defenses that Carolina, New Orleans and Atlanta played.

The Mahan experiment was a bust and some Tampa fans saw it coming for the Steelers.

excellent comparison of Mahan to Ross

I asked several Bucs fans about Mahan when we signed him. They were all like, "eh, he's okay but i cant believe he got that much money!" Same thing we would have said about Ross

revefsreleets
03-25-2008, 12:14 PM
My point was that the Steelers have a knack for finding guys and making them fit. God forbid we actually plug the guy in at guard and (gasp!) see what he can do...better to make all the decisions before he plays the position on next years version of our line line, I guess.

Lord Stiller
03-25-2008, 12:20 PM
My point was that the Steelers have a knack for finding guys and making them fit. God forbid we actually plug the guy in at guard and (gasp!) see what he can do...better to make all the decisions before he plays the position on next years version of our line line, I guess.

or God forbid we should make him earn a starting spot (gasp)

Mahan won't beat out Simmons or Kemo or Colon if he moves inside

Mahan is now an expensive backup

rbryan
03-25-2008, 02:05 PM
Not to change the subj but I noticed we have a guard named Matt Lentz on the roster from Mich 6'6" 320lbs, dude is big enough, anyone know much about him?

Along with Capizzi 6'9" 315lbs and Jeremy Parquat 6'6" 320 lbs we've got some monsters I've heard very little about. Maybe things aren't as bad as I thought???

HometownGal
03-25-2008, 02:24 PM
No, all it really does is show me that there are a ton of armchair GMs out there that like to second-guess every move the organization makes.

:cheers::thumbsup: The day I can rationally judge a player's abilities from reading a blog on the internet is the day I'll surrender my football fandom and turn to paintball tounaments. :crazy01:

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-25-2008, 02:26 PM
:cheers::thumbsup: The day I can rationally judge a player's abilities from reading a blog on the internet is the day I'll surrender my football fandom and turn to paintball tounaments. :crazy01:

..and now I have a visual of you covered in paint.:thumbsup:

43Hitman
03-25-2008, 03:51 PM
:cheers::thumbsup: The day I can rationally judge a player's abilities from reading a blog on the internet is the day I'll surrender my football fandom and turn to paintball tounaments. :crazy01:

:cheers: Very well said.

rbryan
03-25-2008, 04:39 PM
Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that everyone here with an opinion didn't go to the combine and watch endless hours of game tape??....lol

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-25-2008, 05:00 PM
:cheers::thumbsup: The day I can rationally judge a player's abilities from reading a blog on the internet is the day I'll surrender my football fandom and turn to paintball tounaments. :crazy01:

Definately. But newspapers, radio shows and TV are all somehow seen as more reliable:wink02:

I choose to trust the opinions of reliable media sources that have a track record. I also choose to trust my own eyes from what I have seen on TV.

I just think its interesting that everything we saw last year from Mahan and are griping about on this board was basically said by a Bucs fan that saw the same thing the year before.

revefsreleets
03-25-2008, 05:06 PM
I have seen a MILLION posts on message boards where people were ABSOLUTELY sure of one thing or another, and they were 100% wrong later. This has the stink of just that kind of sucky prognostication written all over it.

Hey, if I'm wrong about giving Mahan a shot, I'll admit it...as will the Steelers, since it was THEIR initial decision, not mine.

HometownGal
03-25-2008, 05:08 PM
Definately. But newspapers, radio shows and TV are all somehow seen as more reliable:wink02:

I choose to trust the opinions of reliable media sources that have a track record. I also choose to trust my own eyes from what I have seen on TV.

I just think its interesting that everything we saw last year from Mahan and are griping about on this board was basically said by a Bucs fan that saw the same thing the year before.

I've never said I believe newspapers, radio shows and TV are reliable at all. Quite the contrary.

I choose to trust the opinions of Tomlin and his coaches as to a player's abilities and place on the team. Mahan will have to prove himself in TC at the G position and I firmly believe he will, contrary to some schmo's opinion on an internet blog or some media jock who has papers or a show to peddle. Imho, Mahan was the scapegoat for the OL last season - there wasn't a one of them, including Faneca, who I felt had a respectable season.

Steelerfreak58
03-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Mahan deserves a chance at a starting position at guard. Maybe he will fit in and give Big Ben the protection that he deserves.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-25-2008, 07:27 PM
- there wasn't a one of them, including Faneca, who I felt had a respectable season.

pretty true. A lot of people give Faneca a pass based on reputation alone, but he wasnt up to his standard level of play.

Smith was great until he got hurt, Simmons was average and Colon actually played well for a first year starter. Most like to point out the # of sacks he was credited with, but few harp on him like they do Simmons and Mahan.

Galax Steeler
03-26-2008, 03:22 AM
I think given the chance and colon could be a good player.

steelpride12
03-26-2008, 06:02 PM
We will see how it works out in the draft. We have no solid center with Mahan being a bust, and the draft looking big for o-line men anything could happen at this point to early to say.

faneca05
03-27-2008, 03:41 PM
I think the best option would be to draft branden albert to challenge mahan and if mahan cant beat out albert we either release him or restructure his contract.

tony hipchest
03-27-2008, 03:45 PM
We will see how it works out in the draft. We have no solid center with Mahan being a bust, and the draft looking big for o-line men anything could happen at this point to early to say.i'd say hartwig is solid.

check out his interview today on sirius via delhess' channel 124 thread in media section.

some revealing comments in there. im sold on atleast an upgrade from last season and look forward to somebody who actually has experience making calls and changes at the line of scrimmage. takes all the pressure off of ben who was inexperienced himself in doing what the center normally does.

lilyoder6
03-27-2008, 04:20 PM
yes i agree there.. about getting albert to challenge mahan.. and mahan could give depth at o-line with g and c

stillers4me
03-27-2008, 04:33 PM
Perfect opportunity for Hartwig

Thursday, March 27, 2008
By Teresa Varley
Steelers.com

http://news.steelers.com/article/87929/

Free agency is definitely about opportunity knocking and when it did for Justin Hartwig allowing him the chance to become a part of the Steelers offensive line, there was no doubt the veteran center was taking advantage of it.



?The Steelers gave me a great opportunity to come here and hopefully get on the field,? said Hartwig. ?My job is to get on the field and play and help this team win. I thought this was the best opportunity for me.?



Hartwig was attracted to the team because of a number of things, but he couldn?t help like the success they have had throughout the years in the post-season.



?The Steelers are a first-class organization,? he said. ?They are going to be in the playoffs every year just about. They are going to be right there in the thick of things. That?s what Coach (Mike) Tomlin stressed to me ? that they are a championship organization and that is their goal every year. That was one of the biggest reasons why I am here.



?He told me they are straight shooters here, everybody comes to work and they work hard. They have great ownership. We know what our job is and that is to win games. We are a blue collar mentality. I grew up in the Mid-West and that is why I am where I am today, because of that mentality. I worked hard to get where I am.?



Hartwig officially signed with the team on Tuesday and immediately got to work participating in the offseason program. He is attacking it with a goal in mind ? winning the starting center job.



Sean Mahan signed with the Steelers as a free agent from Tampa before the 2007 season and started at center last year, but Hartwig was told that he would be given a chance to compete for the position. It was a major draw for him.



?They told me it?s a competition,? said Hartwig. ?That?s the way it is every year in the NFL. You are going to have to compete for your job. They told me they have Sean here and there is an opportunity to come in and compete with him and that is all I can ask for.



?I think there is an opportunity to start but that is what training camp is for. We?ll see what happens. That is my goal like it is everybody else on this team, to be a starter and be productive.?



Hartwig spent the last two seasons with the Carolina Panthers, starting 15 games last season but only one in 2006 after he was placed on injured reserve with a groin injury. The Panthers released Hartwig in early March, instead likely going with former second-round draft choice Ryan Kalil at center. Hartwig might have been able to remain with the Panthers if he switched to guard, but he wanted to remain at center.



?Playing guard isn?t anything I am against, but I have been starting in the league for five straight years playing center and I think that is my best opportunity to be on the field and it?s my best position,? said Hartwig. ?They decided it was best to give me the opportunity to go elsewhere and play center.?



The Steelers have had a strong history at center, dating back to Ray Mansfield, Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson and most recently Jeff Hartings. That isn?t something that is lost on Hartwig, who was actually told by a former Steelers player to use Dawson as an example of how to play the position when he first came in to the league with the Tennessee Titans.



?I had a chance to play with Neil O?Donnell for a few years in Tennessee and he just kept telling me ?Justin, turn on a tape of Dermontti Dawson. Watch Dermontti Dawson and you will know everything you need to know,?? said Hartwig. ?I am well aware of the history of centers here. I am aware of what kind of line the Steelers have had in the past and the tradition. They have always had one of the best lines in the league. It?s a good opportunity and a chance to be a part of something special.?

So aware that he shied away from taking number 64 when it was offered to him to wear because it?s the number Hartings wore. His other options were 66, but declined because of Alan Faneca?s legacy. He chose number 62, and hopes to live up to the expectations of those that wore that number before him, most notably Tunch Ilkin.



And the Steelers need him to step up big. Last season was a tough one for the offensive line as they allowed 47 sacks during the regular season.



?My biggest challenge right now is learning the offense and getting comfortable with it,? said Hartwig. ?Once I get that confidence in what I am doing I plan on stepping up and being a vocal leader. Once I learn who the guys are and their personalities, going into my seventh year hopefully I can provide that leadership. That is also the job of the center ? being a leader. You are the guy making most of the line calls. I think I can bring that to a table.?

:jammin:

SteelersTilIDie
03-28-2008, 05:57 PM
he is a good player, and i think it will be perfect because mahan was bad last year and he will push over to guard and i would think we would add depth for offensive line in the draft too

warddj86
03-28-2008, 07:03 PM
Not all the time. Many times they release a solid guy because they have a younger solid guy for less money.

If that is the case, with the trouble we have at center... I wouldn't be too unhappy, but better get that knee checked out.


The Patriots don't need that logo, because they blew their 4th SB to a team they are clearly better than.

Pats 4 Worst Team of 2008!!!

lilyoder6
03-28-2008, 09:16 PM
that was a very good story about him.. maybe ben can take him out on the town 4 a night with his new contract..

Galax Steeler
03-29-2008, 06:27 AM
Thats good knowing that other teams watched dawson and was trying to learn from him.