PDA

View Full Version : Flag Not Thrown


Dino 6 Rings
04-02-2008, 12:28 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...but...apparently...the Refs agree now...they should have called holding on the 4th down play against the Jags in the playoffs.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08093/869712-66.stm

Posted the entire article, but this is in the guts of it:

"Playoff flag that wasn't thrown
Mike Pereira, the NFL's head of officiating, admitted yesterday that his crew working the Steelers-Jaguars playoff game erred in not calling a holding penalty against Jacksonville on a crucial play that allowed the Jaguars to kick the winning field goal.

Quarterback David Garrard scrambled on fourth-and-2 from the Steelers 43 and made the first down. Three plays later, Josh Scobee kicked a field goal, giving the Jaguars a 31-29 victory. Several Steelers players complained there was blatant holding on Garrard's run. Nearly three months later, Pereira agreed with them.

Tomlin declined to comment on Pereira's admission."

Jeremy
04-02-2008, 12:32 PM
Tomlin declined to comment on Pereira's admission.

Which is exactly what he should have done.

Dizzle43
04-02-2008, 12:36 PM
Well that's good that they acknowledged that they missed the call.

jjpro11
04-02-2008, 12:38 PM
doesnt do anything.. but it justifies all the complaining we did.

OneForTheToe
04-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Oh well, you get some calls you lose some. I'm not going to be a "cryhawk." We gave up way too many plays earlier in that game. As much as I hate to say it, I don't think we would have beaten the Colts, Chargers or Paricheats. We just didn't have it at the end of the year. Too poor of O'line play and too many key injuries elsewhere were our undoing.

fansince'76
04-02-2008, 01:00 PM
Oh well, you get some calls you lose some. I'm not going to be a "cryhawk." We gave up way too many plays earlier in that game.

Bingo. Couldn't agree more.

verks36
04-02-2008, 01:08 PM
The refs screwed us but whats really new we suck it up and dont complain.

The game shouldnt have came down to the refs anyway

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-02-2008, 01:28 PM
Yeah, not much you can do after the fact. Its hopefully a learning tool for the refs.

I can see a lot of missed calls on the inside and as a guy that coaches O line, I expect holding in the interior.

But that hold on Khalif Barnes was out in space and blatant on Harrison. The ref should be singled out for missing that and it should reflect on his grading and ability to ref on future playoff crews.

steelermuzik
04-02-2008, 02:46 PM
"Well, the Patriots still lost the Super Bowl, so overall, I'm pretty damn happy with last year's football season."

:iagree:

BettisFan
04-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Yea this happends all the time diddnt we play the titans a couple years ago and this happend?

BlastFurnace
04-02-2008, 03:05 PM
It's a shame we lost that game. It seems that every time we lose to Jacksonville, I have this feeling of "What in the world just happened and how did we lose that game" ?...ranging from the 1997 game when Cowher nearly tackled the blocked FG returner, the Tommy Maddox game, and this past year's playoff game.

The missed holding call was not why we lost that game. I was proud of our boys for the way they fought back, but IMO, the real problem that game was the way we played the first half.

Besides...I despise Jacksonville...and that, more than anything, makes me hate the fact that we lost.

CanadianSteel
04-02-2008, 03:41 PM
Totaly agree that we did enough in that game to beat ourselves.... however what sucks is to come back like that, and then have the most crucial play late in the game admittingly called wrong. I remember hollering at my TV that it was holding when the play occured.
Sour grapes I know, but it sucks to have the Refs taken away at least was a good oppurtunity to win that game.
I can only hope these refs that miss blatant calls etc..at least get dissaplined somehow and learn from the mistakes..

revefsreleets
04-02-2008, 03:47 PM
The Tommy Maddox INT was preordained. I was already walking out of the bar when it happened. That was inevitable.

BlastFurnace
04-02-2008, 04:00 PM
The Tommy Maddox INT was preordained. I was already walking out of the bar when it happened. That was inevitable.

Where my wife and I attend church services, our Preacher...at that time...was and still is really good friends with Tommy Maddox. It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut that night at Bible Study. His daughter, who is not a big football fan, came up to me and asked how Tommy played. I still bit my tongue, but I wanted to unload.

Galax Steeler
04-02-2008, 04:06 PM
We can't take that play back and like someone else said in a post it shouldnt have come down to that one play.

Rhee Rhee
04-02-2008, 04:18 PM
im glad this news came out now...

just imagine the chaos it would've caused if the news came out right after the jax game...

Stlrs4Life
04-02-2008, 04:24 PM
Oh well, you get some calls you lose some. I'm not going to be a "cryhawk." We gave up way too many plays earlier in that game. As much as I hate to say it, I don't think we would have beaten the Colts, Chargers or Paricheats. We just didn't have it at the end of the year. Too poor of O'line play and too many key injuries elsewhere were our undoing.


Same here. Big deal. It's over now.

fansince'76
04-02-2008, 04:24 PM
just imagine the chaos it would've caused if the news came out right after the jax game...

We've been getting screwed on calls for years. We wound up 9-7 and out of the playoffs in 2000 after Dan Rooney received THREE letters from the Commisioner's office during that season for THREE separate games apologizing for the refs screwing up and basically costing us the game in each instance. Never mind the '98 Thanksgiving Day coin toss for OT, or Nedney's Oscar-worthy flop in the '02 divisional playoff game. Fact remains, we need to put enough of a gap between us and our opponents so that BS calls by officials can't affect us. IOW, if your team is good enough, they should be able to overcome iffy-to-downright-bad calls (for instance, Troy's overturned INT against Indy). Good teams overcome bad calls, bottom line.

stillers4me
04-02-2008, 05:11 PM
We've been getting screwed on calls for years. We wound up 9-7 and out of the playoffs in 2000 after Dan Rooney received THREE letters from the Commisioner's office during that season for THREE separate games apologizing for the refs screwing up and basically costing us the game in each instance. Never mind the '98 Thanksgiving Day coin toss for OT, or Nedney's Oscar-worthy flop in the '02 divisional playoff game. Fact remains, we need to put enough of a gap between us and our opponents so that BS calls by officials can't affect us. IOW, if your team is good enough, they should be able to overcome iffy-to-downright-bad calls (for instance, Troy's overturned INT against Indy). Good teams overcome bad calls, bottom line.

Exactly. If only the Seawhiners could learn that.

And the fact that we literally limped into the playoffs with half our positions played by backups, gives me high hopes for the near future. Let's just get everybody healthy and hope we can stay that way well into January. :thumbsup:

Counselor
04-02-2008, 05:31 PM
[/B]

Exactly. If only the Seawhiners could learn that.

And the fact that we literally limped into the playoffs with half our positions played by backups, gives me high hopes for the near future. Let's just get everybody healthy and hope we can stay that way well into January. :thumbsup:

Yeah, the end result of the playoffs was better than I coud have ever hoped for at the time. Sure we lost, but it was a fabulous game-----we didn't have to deal with the cheatriots beating us again, -------and we got to chear (and laugh) when Giants gave us the 18-1 finish we'd all prayed for!

rick723
04-02-2008, 05:40 PM
Well I'm going to sit here and baby cry! Marvin will be proud of me
BUT, I am mad about it.

SteelerMurf
04-02-2008, 06:10 PM
It's funny, NFL admits mistake that directly lead to the Steelers losing a game and we fans know that it shouldn't have come down to that play anyway and take the loss knowing they didn't play good enough to win.

Contrast that with the Cryhawks fans. NFL admited one mistake in the superbowl (only one irrelevant chop block penalty) and still to this day they are spitting in Steelers sandwiches and crying all over the internet that the game was fixed, the Steelers cheated, * :blah:

Another reason to be proud to be a Steeler fan.:helmet:

19ward86
04-02-2008, 07:02 PM
might as well give us the 1.5 carrot rings instead of the giants...

stillers4me
04-02-2008, 08:33 PM
might as well give us the 1.5 carrot rings instead of the giants...

Here's a bigger one...it's 2 "carrots". :chuckle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/carrotring.jpg

BettisFan
04-02-2008, 08:34 PM
The loss is in the past, no going back now.

12+88=6
04-02-2008, 10:46 PM
yeah it's over and done with and all, but i still feal cheated.

not that they would've won the super bowl but just the fact that i missed out on that feeling of having your team win a playoff game. that good feeling you have where you are happy for the whole next week and you keep thinking that there is a chance you can still win the super bowl. also i couldn't sleep that night, i kept thinking about the game and how they blew it and so on. it's much easier to have a good night's sleep after a win.

BettisFan
04-02-2008, 10:56 PM
Thats true but refs make so many mistakes every game that just arent announced.

stlrtruck
04-03-2008, 08:35 AM
I think this goes back to the NFL going to FT refs who can, in the off season and during the week, review relevant plays from the previous season/week and get a better understanding of the rules on the books and the interpretation of the rule if necessary.

But that will be the day.

Blitzburgh_Fever
04-04-2008, 08:34 AM
Makes me proud to be a Steelers fan. We'll overcome.

Dino 6 Rings
04-04-2008, 12:22 PM
I'm very proud of my fellow Steelers fans for not crying over spilled milk. Yep, we lost, and that blown call sucked, but it wasn't why we lost the game. We have moved on, it has been recognized as a bad call, and that's all any of us really wanted, admit you blew the call. Thanks. 5 + months til Kickoff, I Can't Wait!!!

PINDEL1
04-04-2008, 12:31 PM
It was flagrant and obvious holding. The refs did not have the guts at the time to call it.
There are no sour grapes about it from me.
I really do not think we would have won the next game or the game after that anyway. The season ended correctly from my viewpoint.

rbryan
04-04-2008, 01:52 PM
Why bother to acknowledge it now?? You guys are more gracious than me. It's like opening an old wound and adding salt as far as I'm concerned.

Granted the way that game was going they would have probably converted on 4th and 12 the next play anyway.

zulater
04-04-2008, 02:07 PM
I'm very proud of my fellow Steelers fans for not crying over spilled milk. Yep, we lost, and that blown call sucked, but it wasn't why we lost the game. We have moved on, it has been recognized as a bad call, and that's all any of us really wanted, admit you blew the call. Thanks. 5 + months til Kickoff, I Can't Wait!!!

I too am pleased that the majority of Steeler fans haven't whined after the fact like Seahwak fans. But one distinction needs to be made. The Seahawks never got a league apology for any call of consequence ( they may have admitted that the illegal block on Hasselback was wrong) while the Steelers got an apology for a game deciding play. The reason being the film supported the calls of Super bowl XL, and had it not been for John Madden's tainted commentary the National perception of that game would be entirely different. It still pisses me off how a disgruntled ex Raider coach stole the legitimacy of that win from a mostly ill informed easily manipulated audience. :banging:

MasterOfPuppets
04-04-2008, 02:22 PM
I too am pleased that the majority of Steeler fans haven't whined after the fact like Seahwak fans. But one distinction needs to be made. The Seahawks never got a league apology for any call of consequence ( they may have admitted that the illegal block on Hasselback was wrong) while the Steelers got an apology for a game deciding play. The reason being the film supported the calls of Super bowl XL, and had it not been for John Madden's tainted commentary the National perception of that game would be entirely different. It still pisses me off how a disgruntled ex Raider coach stole the legitimacy of that win from a mostly ill informed easily manipulated audience. :banging:
yup i hear ya....anytime one of the bozos in the booth give thier OPINION on a call or play, people tend to take it as the gosspel.

Dino 6 Rings
04-04-2008, 03:18 PM
It still pisses me off how a disgruntled ex Raider coach stole the legitimacy of that win from a mostly ill informed easily manipulated audience. :banging:

Great call, no doubt Madden is anything but Biased when it comes to Pittsburgh. He's still pssed about the Immaculate Reception. Still...it happened in 72 and he's still pssed about it.

Couldn't imagine if he'd have been the coach during the "Tuck Rule" Game.

steel striker
04-04-2008, 10:45 PM
Well I'm over that game and, yes most of us steeler faithful knew it all along. I still remember Cowher sticking apicture in Ron Winter's pocket during a game against the Vikings when they had 12 men on the field during a game ending field goal. A week later we got a leeter saying how they missed that call. The only things in that game against the jags is that on third and six we did that stupid qb draw to the left. Now that does bugs me but, we I have to agree we had plenty of chances to win that game and the bottom line is we did not get it done. So here to this coming year. Go Steeelers!!

fansince'76
04-04-2008, 11:03 PM
The reason being the film supported the calls of Super bowl XL, and had it not been for John Madden's tainted commentary the National perception of that game would be entirely different. It still pisses me off how a disgruntled ex Raider coach stole the legitimacy of that win from a mostly ill informed easily manipulated audience. :banging:

Madden didn't steal squat from us, IMO. Anybody who can't see that game for what it was, a very poorly played football game by both teams in which we made the big plays (the three of them that there were) in the game, is either a bitter hater or a football illiterate who needs to familiarize themselves with the rulebook. And in both cases, I really couldn't give a rat's arse less what they think. Jackson DID pushoff, Locklear DID hold, and Ben DID break the plane.

zulater
04-04-2008, 11:34 PM
Madden didn't steal squat from us, IMO. Anybody who can't see that game for what it was, a very poorly played football game by both teams in which we made the big plays (the three of them that there were) in the game, is either a bitter hater or a football illiterate who needs to familiarize themselves with the rulebook. And in both cases, I really couldn't give a rat's arse less what they think. Jackson DID pushoff, Locklear DID hold, and Ben DID break the plane.

Just in the past few weeks I've heard two ESPN radio hosts insist that the refs stole the game from the Steelers. Like it or not it's a popularly held notion that the Seahawks lost that game because of slanted officiating.

To me the reason this view is so widely held is because of the bias Madden took into the game and displayed in the way he analyzed the game. A perfect example would be the Jackson push off you cited. While it can be argued that it was a somewhat ticky tacky call there should be no dispute that a push off did indeed occur and the ref was in a perfect position to see it. Of course that didn't stop Madden and Micheals from going on endlessy telling the viewing audience what a bad call it was. Anyway contrast that with a similiar call against Heath Miller that could have proved equally costly to the Steelers, but there were two notable differences.

1. The Steelers were able to overcome that penalty ( which negated a positive play) and eventually score the td.

2. We have never seen a single replay of that penalty to decide whether the call was accurate or not, because Madden and Micheals never bothered to show us one. People who have seen the game film swear the call against Miller was far more egrecious than the one on Jackson but for some reason ABC never bothered to show it to us.

Anyway there were other examples of calls that went against the Steelers that Micheals and Madden never bothered to comment on. A helmet to helmet hit against Hines Ward. A clip on Ben on the interception return etc...Had they been duly noted the general perception may have been that some close calls went against both teams and as is usually the case they tend to even out over the course of the game. But being as Madden's apparent bias blinded him to these plays his commentary swayed the general public to believe the Steelers were the receipents of slanted officiating.

Like I previously said the Seahawks were never offered an apology by the league because the film verified that every one of the so called questionabble calls were indeed called correctly. But despite the truth being on the Steelers side the Steelers SBXL win will always be called into question by the general public. And in my opinion that's due almost entirely to John Madden's slanted view that was taken as gospel by the masses. In all honesty I don't even think that Madden's intent was malicious, or that he's even aware of it, but it was there all the same. And I'm sure it's all about the deep seeded resentment that comes from being the Steelers bitches more times than not, when it really mattered back in the 70's.

fansince'76
04-04-2008, 11:49 PM
Just in the past few weeks I've heard two ESPN radio hosts insist that the refs stole the game from the Steelers. Like it or not it's a popularly held notion that the Seahawks lost that game because of slanted officiating.

To me the reason this view is so widely held is because of the bias Madden took into the game and displayed in the way he analyzed the game. A perfect example would be the Jackson push off you cited. While it can be argued that it was a somewhat ticky tacky call there should be no dispute that a push off did indeed occur and the ref was in a perfect position to see it. Of course that didn't stop Madden and Micheals from going on endlessy telling the viewing audience what a bad call it was. Anyway contrast that with a similiar call against Heath Miller that could have proved equally costly to the Steelers, but there were two notable differences.

1. The Steelers were able to overcome that penalty ( which negated a positive play) and eventually score the td.

2. We have never seen a single replay of that penalty to decide whether the call was accurate or not, because Madden and Micheals never bothered to show us one. People who have seen the game film swear the call against Miller was far more egrecious than the one on Jackson but for some reason ABC never bothered to show it to us.

Anyway there were other examples of calls that went against the Steelers that Micheals and Madden never bothered to comment on. A helmet to helmet hit against Hines Ward. A clip on Ben on the interception return etc...Had they been duly noted the general perception may have been that some close calls went against both teams and as is usually the case they tend to even out over the course of the game. But being as Madden's apparent bias blinded him to these plays his commentary swayed the general public to believe the Steelers were the receipents of slanted officiating.

Like I previously said the Seahawks were never offered an apology by the league because the film verified that every one of the so called questionabble calls were indeed called correctly. But despite the truth being on the Steelers side the Steelers SBXL win will always be called into question by the general public. And in my opinion that's due almost entirely to John Madden's slanted view that was taken as gospel by the masses. In all honesty I don't even think that Madden's intent was malicious, or that he's even aware of it, but it was there all the same. And I'm sure it's all about the deep seeded resentment that comes from being the Steelers bitches more times than not, when it really mattered back in the 70's.

Oh, I couldn't agree more with you about Madden's biased commentary of that game. You know what infuriated me even more than that, though? During the halftime of that game when that cokehead Michael Irvin insisted that Jackson didn't push off. The guy who practically invented the push off, and more than that turned it into an art form and got away with it his entire career, insisting that play wasn't a push off. Wow, go figure. :mad:

And as far as ESPN goes, I have a standing personal boycott of that network to this day with the exception of a Steelers game being broadcast on it. Madden in large part created the officiating controversy, but ESPN took the ball and ran with it from there. It was a crappy game, so they harped on the officiating "controversy." :flipoff: ESPN.

steelwall
04-05-2008, 12:13 AM
We've been getting screwed on calls for years. We wound up 9-7 and out of the playoffs in 2000 after Dan Rooney received THREE letters from the Commisioner's office during that season for THREE separate games apologizing for the refs screwing up and basically costing us the game in each instance. Never mind the '98 Thanksgiving Day coin toss for OT, or Nedney's Oscar-worthy flop in the '02 divisional playoff game. Fact remains, we need to put enough of a gap between us and our opponents so that BS calls by officials can't affect us. IOW, if your team is good enough, they should be able to overcome iffy-to-downright-bad calls (for instance, Troy's overturned INT against Indy). Good teams overcome bad calls, bottom line.

I agree.... I watched every single Steelers game from 2000 to 2005..(before I came to China)

I think we have recevied the shaft far too many times. The holding ( or better yet, the lack there of) calls at times made me want to take my TV and throw it in my trash can.

Cant remember which season it was between 02, and 05 but there was that 1 season it seemed at that as one of our guys on D was blatenlty held allmost every down.

BettisFan
04-05-2008, 01:09 AM
I agree.... I watched every single Steelers game from 2000 to 2005..(before I came to China)

I think we have recevied the shaft far too many times. The holding ( or better yet, the lack there of) calls at times made me want to take my TV and throw it in my trash can.

Cant remember which season it was between 02, and 05 but there was that 1 season it seemed at that as one of our guys on D was blatenlty held allmost every down.

Dude this is sports there are always penalties that happend that arent called and ones that dont happen that are called, its the game, what ever and it happends to every team not just the steelers.

The Duke
04-05-2008, 02:14 AM
Dude this is sports there are always penalties that happend that arent called and ones that dont happen that are called, its the game, what ever and it happends to every team not just the steelers.

exactly. good post :thumbsup:

it happens to every team, steelwall, I bet you could find fans of every team saying exactly what you said. but real good teams find ways to overcome referees mistakes, and the bad ones well....not