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View Full Version : If We Never Drafted Big Ben...


tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 03:10 PM
just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb. both are old and would need to be replaced.

"with the 23rd pick in the draft, the steelers select brian brohm". ( the future franchise qb)

how would that sit with everyone? i would think we would be elated to have a potential top 5 pick from last year fall into our laps this year for doing nothing more than returning for his senior season and improving on all stats.

now, does it sicken anyone else that dallas can do the EXACT same thing with their #22 pick this year that they did with the same pick last year (trade it for atlantas 2nd rounder + next years 1st just like they did with the browns)?

Hapa
04-11-2008, 03:21 PM
I don't think we'd have the 23rd pick if it weren't for Ben.

we'd probably have a top ten pick.

tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 03:31 PM
I don't think we'd have the 23rd pick if it weren't for Ben.

we'd probably have a top ten pick.

just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb.

millwalldavey
04-11-2008, 03:32 PM
I don't think we'd have the 23rd pick if it weren't for Ben.

we'd probably have a top ten pick.

I think so as well. And no ring #5.

Also, we may still have Faneca and Porter... the $$$$ situations would have been different and it may have been there to pay them...

A new QB could have fallen into a cherry job this year.

Screw it all. I'll keep Ben.

tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 03:40 PM
I think so as well. And no ring #5.

Also, we may still have Faneca and Porter... the $$$$ situations would have been different and it may have been there to pay them...

A new QB could have fallen into a cherry job this year.

Screw it all. I'll keep Ben.

just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb.

i think people are missing the point. if we didnt have ben, a potential franchise qb sitting there at #23 would have immense value based on need. since we dont have that need, we still may have a "value pick" and the opportunity to do EXACTLY what dallas did last year (which was smart).

hell, the same type of move got the patriots into the top 10 this season (which was smart).

or we can just draft another l. timmons or the 7th or 8th highest rated linemen in the draft :yawn:

millwalldavey
04-11-2008, 03:47 PM
just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb.

Ahhh... my bad.

First of all gimmie Batch! I'd be proud to have ring number 5 with him running the show!

It is getting close to time for him to move on. This year i think could be more trying than it will be in reality. I realistically think we may lose 10 -12 games if there were no Ben.

A new QB @ 23 would be nice and with the quality that could be there, very neccessary. I realy do not think it would be possible for him to come in and have a rookie year like Ben. All the stars lined up that year. 2 -3 years down the road, could be a nice situation.

Preacher
04-11-2008, 03:53 PM
:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny::sofunny: Tony Tony Tony... And STILL no one gets your post!!

My thoughts. . .

We would be ecstatic to have Brohm waiting for us at 23. . . heck, I have read where he might go in the second or even I thought, third round, though that just doesn't seem possible.

Imagine to trade down to the beginning second, pick up a first round next year and a second this year for our first to get Brohm this year and say, maybe, the Bengal's first next?

The question is though tony, would the Steelers make that kind of trade? I say probably not. They don't usually play those games. Normally, they draft straight up, or trade within the current years draft.

though i must say... I am glad we are NOT looking at that scenario!

tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 03:54 PM
just to make this easier with a more believable scenario, just assume the past 4 years went the same but tomorrow ben was in a horrible motorcycle accident that left him unable to play football again.

im guessing most fans would want that "franchise qb" to replace him.... no?

brian brohm might just look like 1 hell of a steal that would have us a little anxious with anticipation?

anyways, i hope we maximize the value of our pick.

rick723
04-11-2008, 03:55 PM
just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb. both are old and would need to be replaced.

"with the 23rd pick in the draft, the steelers select brian brohm". ( the future franchise qb)

how would that sit with everyone? i would think we would be elated to have a potential top 5 pick from last year fall into our laps this year for doing nothing more than returning for his senior season and improving on all stats.

now, does it sicken anyone else that dallas can do the EXACT same thing with their #22 pick this year that they did with the same pick last year (trade it for atlantas 2nd rounder + next years 1st just like they did with the browns)?

Not being a smart butt but, if you want to what if about who we would pick. Go root for the dolphins or, whoever ends up dead last this year. I hate off season too but not enough to wonder who we draft with the 2nd or 3rd pick LOL

millwalldavey
04-11-2008, 03:56 PM
[QUOTE=Preacher;385369]:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny::sofunny: Tony Tony Tony... And STILL no one gets your post!!

[QUOTE]

Sorta thought i hit it on the head there... maybe not....

rick723
04-11-2008, 03:56 PM
But, Tommy Gunn was a great one year wonder.

Dino 6 Rings
04-11-2008, 03:57 PM
just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb. both are old and would need to be replaced.

"with the 23rd pick in the draft, the steelers select brian brohm". ( the future franchise qb)

how would that sit with everyone? i would think we would be elated to have a potential top 5 pick from last year fall into our laps this year for doing nothing more than returning for his senior season and improving on all stats.

now, does it sicken anyone else that dallas can do the EXACT same thing with their #22 pick this year that they did with the same pick last year (trade it for atlantas 2nd rounder + next years 1st just like they did with the browns)?

I think, becauset he QB pool isn't that great, at least doesn't have 2 guys as solid out of college as Eli and Rivers, with Ben considered the 3rd best, this year wouldn't be a good year to draft a QB at 23. I think Braum is a good pick up in the 2nd round, so that leads me to believe the Steelers, in this draft would focus on Dline or Running Back. With the injury to Parker and no other starter on the roster, a true fresh running back is probably what Tomlin would want. Can't think like Cowher. Got to think like Tomlin. With Hampton in the middle getting up there in age, I could see them going for a new Nose Tackle with the first pick. If Ben wasn't our QB, I think we'd be dealing with a free agent ring around the rosie, trying to find that guy to lead the offense, behind the oline and running game.

The_WARDen
04-11-2008, 04:10 PM
just to make this easier with a more believable scenario, just assume the past 4 years went the same but tomorrow ben was in a horrible motorcycle accident that left him unable to play football again.

im guessing most fans would want that "franchise qb" to replace him.... no?

brian brohm might just look like 1 hell of a steal that would have us a little anxious with anticipation?

anyways, i hope we maximize the value of our pick.

Can I be married to Jessica Alba in this dream scenario?

:banana:

tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 04:26 PM
Not being a smart butt but, if you want to what if about who we would pick. Go root for the dolphins or, whoever ends up dead last this year. I hate off season too but not enough to wonder who we draft with the 2nd or 3rd pick LOL

abstract thinking is truely a lost art...

Dino 6 Rings
04-11-2008, 04:38 PM
abstract thinking is truely a lost art...

LOL!!!

:cheers:

19ward86
04-11-2008, 04:45 PM
im too big of a ben fan to truly comment.

MACH1
04-11-2008, 04:47 PM
Not being a smart butt but, if you want to what if about who we would pick. Go root for the dolphins or, whoever ends up dead last this year. I hate off season too but not enough to wonder who we draft with the 2nd or 3rd pick LOL

I guess we could all sit around and make fun of the bungals.

In 1492...

BettisFan
04-11-2008, 05:03 PM
GEEZ! I hate TONY ROMO!

Preacher
04-11-2008, 05:26 PM
abstract thinking is truely a lost art...


HEY...

BRING BACK THE TH WE KNOW AND LOVE!

What is up with intellectual Tony!! :wink02:

Seriously though, Tony, you hit the nail on the head. We have lost the ability to conceptualize and then logically draw conclusions. If it is not about rhetoric or casting stones, people don't know how to operate in a abstract world.

millwalldavey
04-11-2008, 05:29 PM
I guess we could all sit around and make fun of the bungals.

In 1492...

Ah... at least there are some certainties in this world!

fansince'76
04-11-2008, 05:31 PM
We have lost the ability to conceptualize and then logically draw conclusions. If it is not about rhetoric or casting stones, people don't know how to operate in a abstract world.

BIG BEN ROOLZ! :tt02:

:dang: :dang: :dang:

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 05:32 PM
GEEZ! I hate TONY ROMO!


"Offseason idiot factor has reached its quota". :dang:

:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

MACH1
04-11-2008, 05:39 PM
"Offseason idiot factor has reached its quota". :dang:

:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

:toofunny::toofunny:

Preacher
04-11-2008, 05:45 PM
BIG BEN ROOLZ! :tt02:

:dang: :dang: :dang:

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

:buttkick:

:chuckle:

There is just nothing else to say!!!

Rhee Rhee
04-11-2008, 05:52 PM
i really don't know if I would take brohm in the first...

knowing that our o-line would look even worse with maddox and batch back there i wouldn't mind seeing albert or chris williams as our first and draft guys like henne/flacco/kevin oconnel (in the later rounds) or even colt brennan (much later rounds)

that being said i'd still go with o-line in the first and see what value picks fall to us in the second,third and fourth rounds...

tony hipchest
04-11-2008, 06:09 PM
i really don't know if I would take brohm in the first...

knowing that our o-line would look even worse with maddox and batch back there i wouldn't mind seeing albert or chris williams as our first and draft guys like henne/flacco/kevin oconnel (in the later rounds) or even colt brennan (much later rounds)

that being said i'd still go with o-line in the first and see what value picks fall to us in the second,third and fourth rounds...aso grasshoppa!

i see you read the post and formulated an actual logical response.

i definitely like the OL idea, but if too many are gone and its a reach, id just as soon try to trade out of the pick much like dallas did last year.

as far as value, im thinking this years #2 qb may be more valuable than the 6th-8th lineman, if you were to poll the 32 teams.

if we didnt have a franchise qb, us fans would realize that a bit more. last year, brohm was ranked right up there with russell and quinn.

Preacher
04-11-2008, 06:17 PM
aso grasshoppa!

i see you read the post and formulated an actual logical response.

i definitely like the OL idea, but if too many are gone and its a reach, id just as soon try to trade out of the pick much like dallas did last year.

as far as value, im thinking this years #2 qb may be more valuable than the 6th-8th lineman, if you were to poll the 32 teams.

if we didnt have a franchise qb, us fans would realize that a bit more. last year, brohm was ranked right up there with russell and quinn.

Absolutely,

it is easier to get a few line players than it is is to pick up the franchise QB. So you trade out, pick up a draft pick. Get a higher second round pick and reach a bit for him so that you don't lose him. Then use the reg. pick to get a lineman this year, and 2 of the 3 next year to get lineman, or pick up decent lineman in FA.

BettisFan
04-11-2008, 07:58 PM
if we would not have gotten big ben..... lets just say thank g-d we did

CantStop85
04-11-2008, 08:02 PM
Homer opinion...take the best o-lineman available or trade the pick and pick up Andre Woodson later on. :flap:

steelymcmatt
04-11-2008, 08:09 PM
I think there are way too many variables to make this a realistic scenario, but I see where you are coming from.

The difference between last year and this year is in the quality of that #2 quarterback. Prior to the draft, few could concieve of the idea of the idea of Brady Quinn falling out of the top 5, no less the top 10. Therefore it was well worth the trade for the Browns to give up their 1st this year.

Unfortunately, Brohm has just started sneaking into the 1st round, but is probably no more than a 2nd round pick. Therefore he is not worth giving up next year's 1st rounder. I think the best we could hope for is for Atlanta to decide they need to get back into the bottom of the 1st to get whoever they determine as the best available QB (Brohm, Henne, or Flacco). In that scenario we would be looking at a 2nd and
3rd for our 1st.

OneForTheToe
04-11-2008, 09:50 PM
I'm not sure if i would take Brohm, but i wonder what Ben would be doing if he had not been picked by the Steelers?

Selling cheese? :wave:

Tankus_Maximus
04-11-2008, 10:29 PM
....we'd be scr@wed!

And wondering if the Steelers could actually sign a "proven" starter like Aaron Brooks.

MasterOfPuppets
04-11-2008, 10:47 PM
aso grasshoppa!

i see you read the post and formulated an actual logical response.

.
or even colt brennan
i think not .......:sofunny:

The Duke
04-12-2008, 05:13 AM
we would have a lot of this....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-11/20603902.jpg

and this.....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-11/20603970.jpg

and many like this...

http://www.averytooley.com/stereo/media/1/20051016-oh%20no!.jpg

Galax Steeler
04-12-2008, 06:26 AM
we would have a lot of this....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-11/20603902.jpg

and this.....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-11/20603970.jpg

and many like this...

http://www.averytooley.com/stereo/media/1/20051016-oh%20no!.jpg

That brings back nightmares.

Davison_K
04-12-2008, 06:32 AM
That brings back nightmares.



That hurts to see again.

I never liked "Tommy Gun." Not even during his "one year wonder season." I am pretty sure than until something changed I wouldn't have been as interested in Steelers football, or I would be simming the first season on Madden just to get rid of him and draft/sign someone.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-12-2008, 09:21 AM
Brohm has the background to suggest he could be a good QB with his brother and father's QB experience. Still, there is a lot that says he doesnt have the great physical tools, but just gets the job done.....in college. He could follow other Louisville QB's like Dave Ragone and Chris Redman to nowhere.

I might be more inclined to think he fits a west coast system more and wait until the 2nd round and look at Henne, Flacco or Booty instead. O lineman in round 1 and Flacco in round 2.

HometownGal
04-12-2008, 02:04 PM
That hurts to see again.

I never liked "Tommy Gun." Not even during his "one year wonder season." I am pretty sure than until something changed I wouldn't have been as interested in Steelers football, or I would be simming the first season on Madden just to get rid of him and draft/sign someone.

Aw - leave Tommy alone and appreciate him for finally ridding us of Kordumbell. :thumbsup: One year wonder or not, he spearheaded one helluva magical season in 2002, one we would not have had with Kordolt behind center.

Rhee Rhee
04-12-2008, 03:46 PM
Brohm has the background to suggest he could be a good QB with his brother and father's QB experience. Still, there is a lot that says he doesnt have the great physical tools, but just gets the job done.....in college. He could follow other Louisville QB's like Dave Ragone and Chris Redman to nowhere.


don't forget Stefann LeFors

FourThreeMafia
04-12-2008, 03:50 PM
I am sorry, but this thread is pretty pointless.

I mean, its one thing asking a hypothetical question like, "What if we hadnt drafted Ben?". but saying "Assume everything went down the same way" is what makes this ridiculous. NOTHING wouldve went down the same way. The way the question was asked, it would as if we went through the last 4 years without a franchise QB and just got by with Maddox, Batch, St Pierre or other journeyman. With any of those QBs at the helm, we more than likely wouldnt have had a SINGLE playoff APPEARANCE in that timeframe, much less a SB title.

If we didnt have Ben, Id be really scared right now, because there hasnt been a single QB in last years draft of this draft that I would really want as our franchise QB.

tony hipchest
04-12-2008, 04:07 PM
If we didnt have Ben, Id be really scared right now, because there hasnt been a single QB in last years draft of this draft that I would really want as our franchise QB.wow. after all that diatribe, you finally got to the point of the thread and delivered an answer. congrats. :thumbsup:


the point of the thread is to think outside of the box a bit and not be pigeon holed into drafting for need all the time.

MasterOfPuppets
04-12-2008, 04:18 PM
i'd want henne .

FourThreeMafia
04-12-2008, 04:20 PM
wow. after all that diatribe, you finally got to the point of the thread and delivered an answer. congrats. :thumbsup:


the point of the thread is to think outside of the box a bit and not be pigeon holed into drafting for need all the time.

I only read the first few posts, and from what I gathered that didnt seem like the point of the thread. If just seemed like a pointless "what if?" thread.

MasterOfPuppets
04-12-2008, 04:30 PM
I only read the first few posts, and from what I gathered that didnt seem like the point of the thread. If just seemed like a pointless "what if?" thread.pointless ??? this may be a reality to steeler fans in a parrallel universe !!!! :popcorn:

FourThreeMafia
04-12-2008, 05:41 PM
pointless ??? this may be a reality to steeler fans in a parrallel universe !!!! :popcorn:

LMAO

Never thought of that. :dang:

BlastFurnace
04-12-2008, 05:51 PM
Another question....what if we would have used a 5th round pick in the 2000 draft on Tom Brady. What would he be? Would he have won us a ring? ....and please don't tell me the only reason he succeeds is because of cheating. He's much better than that.

lilyoder6
04-12-2008, 06:11 PM
he's only good b/c th eplayers around him are cheating??? w/ the hgh and the money they buy evryone w/

Black@Gold Forever32
04-12-2008, 06:11 PM
just assume the past 4 years went exactly the same with any combination of batch and maddox at qb. both are old and would need to be replaced.

"with the 23rd pick in the draft, the steelers select brian brohm". ( the future franchise qb)

how would that sit with everyone? i would think we would be elated to have a potential top 5 pick from last year fall into our laps this year for doing nothing more than returning for his senior season and improving on all stats.

now, does it sicken anyone else that dallas can do the EXACT same thing with their #22 pick this year that they did with the same pick last year (trade it for atlantas 2nd rounder + next years 1st just like they did with the browns)?

Interesting question....I wouldn't have a problem with Brohm since I think he would offer nice value at 23 but I would rather have Joe Flacco.....He has Big Ben type skills....but I don't think he will be as good as Big Ben....Henne would be my second choice...

slashsteel
04-12-2008, 08:15 PM
I think Brady would have been destroyed by our O-line the last few years. Part of the reason we won XL(looking back) was Ben's ability to escape the pocket. I am not so sure that Brady would have had one ring with us....................................... But he is a damn good QB given time, Something again he would have little of with our run blocking --strong O-lines...........

BlastFurnace
04-12-2008, 11:05 PM
he's only good b/c th eplayers around him are cheating??? w/ the hgh and the money they buy evryone w/

I didn't say he was cheating. I told everyone not to give that excuse. He is a great QB that torches our secondary nearly every single time we play him. I just wonder what he would have done with us.

rick723
04-13-2008, 10:15 PM
abstract thinking is truely a lost art...

Indeed

siss
04-13-2008, 10:51 PM
Does anyone think its blasphemy to even suggest that Ben isnt our franchise QB?


Can I have his terrible towel for that?


kidding!

But I guess if we had the 23 pick and we didnt have BEn then Brohm would be a nice pick. I guess...

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-14-2008, 12:02 AM
You know. There were a lot of folks pimping Philip Rivers the year Ben was drafted. They were using the Cowher and NC State connection, pointing to Rivers record as a winner.

Chances are if Ben was gone we would have picked Rivers, but if we are saying neither QB was picked and we instead picked Shawn Andrews like I was pimping that season......then no, I dont want Brohm.

As I said before, he seems to be a smart guy with an average arm who gets it done....but so did Chris Redman, Dave Ragone and Stephan LeFors (who I forgot...thanks). Henne, Flacco or maybe even Booty in the 2nd.

Preacher
04-14-2008, 12:13 AM
I didn't say he was cheating. I told everyone not to give that excuse. He is a great QB that torches our secondary nearly every single time we play him. I just wonder what he would have done with us.

I have to disagree. I think the cheating was paramount in his development.

I have explained this before... let me explain it again.

Every QB has a learning curve. The key to their future is how they deal with the curve.

Fact is, Brady's curve was artificially flattened because he knew what was coming. He didn't have to worry about reading defenses, just the physical action of throwing the ball. Then, when he had that down, he could work on reading defenses. Furthermore, they created a culture of winning which drew very talented players which then continued to increase his ability to make good plays.

So i can't overlook the cheating, it was fundamental in his development. Now, if Farve went there, or of Bledsoe continued there, it would be a different story. But to learn under that system, I am sorry, but there is no way to discount its effect on Brady's career. After all, decision making is 80 percent of the game.

BlastFurnace
04-14-2008, 09:52 AM
I have to disagree. I think the cheating was paramount in his development.

I have explained this before... let me explain it again.

Every QB has a learning curve. The key to their future is how they deal with the curve.

Fact is, Brady's curve was artificially flattened because he knew what was coming. He didn't have to worry about reading defenses, just the physical action of throwing the ball. Then, when he had that down, he could work on reading defenses. Furthermore, they created a culture of winning which drew very talented players which then continued to increase his ability to make good plays.

So i can't overlook the cheating, it was fundamental in his development. Now, if Farve went there, or of Bledsoe continued there, it would be a different story. But to learn under that system, I am sorry, but there is no way to discount its effect on Brady's career. After all, decision making is 80 percent of the game.

I like you Preacher. We probably have more in common than not, but I completely disagree with you on this.

Rhee Rhee
04-16-2008, 02:17 AM
You know. There were a lot of folks pimping Philip Rivers the year Ben was drafted. They were using the Cowher and NC State connection, pointing to Rivers record as a winner.

Chances are if Ben was gone we would have picked Rivers, but if we are saying neither QB was picked and we instead picked Shawn Andrews like I was pimping that season......then no, I dont want Brohm.

As I said before, he seems to be a smart guy with an average arm who gets it done....but so did Chris Redman, Dave Ragone and Stephan LeFors (who I forgot...thanks). Henne, Flacco or maybe even Booty in the 2nd.

i like the flacco pick... i'm iffy however on the other two...