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Jeremy
04-13-2008, 10:19 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_562135.html

A political tempest over Barack Obama's comments about bitter voters in small towns has given rival Hillary Clinton a new opening to court working-class Democrats 10 days before Pennsylvania's primary.
Obama tried to quell the furor Saturday while conceding he had chosen his words poorly.

"If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that," Obama told the Winston-Salem (N.C.) Journal.

Political insiders differed on whether Obama's comments, which came to light Friday, would become a full-blown political disaster that could prompt party leaders to try to steer the nomination to Clinton even though Obama has more pledged delegates.




The Clinton campaign fueled the controversy in every place and every way it could, hoping charges that Obama is elitist and arrogant would resonate with the swing voters not only in Pennsylvania, but also in upcoming primaries in Indiana and North Carolina.

Obama supporter Anthony Porter, 22, of Wilkinsburg praised the candidate for daring to discuss controversial views that go beyond sterilized sound bites.

"He's right what he says. He says stuff that other people are scared to say, like Martin Luther King did," Porter said yesterday as he took a break from his job at Hyde Park restaurant in the North Side.

Eric Clarke, 42, of Verona said Obama's remarks are a "slap in the face," but doesn't expect they will cost Obama many votes.

"Most of the people he has insulted were not going to vote for him anyway," said Clark, a John McCain supporter.

At issue are comments Obama made privately April 6 at a fundraiser in San Francisco. He was trying to explain his troubles winning over some working-class voters in Pennsylvania, saying they have become frustrated with economic conditions.

"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," Obama said.

The comments, posted Friday on The Huffington Post Web site, set off a blast of criticism from Clinton, Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain and other GOP officials, and drew attention to a potential Obama weakness -- the image some have that the Harvard-trained lawyer is arrogant and aloof.

Clinton supporters handed out "I'm not bitter" stickers in North Carolina. In Indiana, Clinton told plant workers in Indianapolis that the Illinois senator's comments were "elitist and out of touch."

Expect to see Clinton and McCain repeatedly capitalize on Obama's misstep in attack ads and speeches before and after the Pennsylvania primary April 22, said University of Virginia political science Professor Larry Sabato.

A Newsmax/Zogby survey of 1,002 likely voters in Pennsylvania performed Wednesday and Thursday, before Obama was criticized for his comments about small towns, put Clinton 4 percentage points ahead of Obama -- 47 percent to 43 percent.

Clinton's campaign assembled a news conference yesterday of current and former elected officials from Pennsylvania to rail against Obama. Pittsburgh native and former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack said Obama's remarks were "condescending and disappointing" and undercut his message of hope.

Obama's campaign scrambled to defuse possible damage.

There has been a small "political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois, who are bitter," Obama said yesterday morning at a town hall-style meeting at Ball State University in Muncie, Ind. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through.

"So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country."

After acknowledging his previous remarks in California could have been better phrased, he added: "The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation, those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to."

Steve DePietro, 21, of Beaver Falls said he is glad Obama backtracked somewhat from the remarks.

"What he said does not affect the way I think about him. I admire him. It might affect the way the elder population thinks of him," DePietro said.


Another politican exposed as an elitist hypocrite.

fansince'76
04-13-2008, 11:06 AM
Although I have no intention in voting for him if he does get the nomination, what Obama said WAS true.

"They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through."

When was the last time anybody in the middle class went to the polls with the hope that their vote will actually make a difference? That the candidate they voted for would make a real change if elected? Seriously? Personally, I go to the polls every four years in the interest of doing the least amount of damage by voting for what I feel would be the lesser of two evils. I guess the reason I keep going to the polls is that although I don't believe in the people currently running it, I do still believe in the system itself.

What Obama seemed to fail to mention was what HE would do to try and change this mindset if he were elected. The answer, in short: he wouldn't. And neither will anyone else. When the election is over, all the rhetoric will go out the window and it'll be back to business as usual inside the beltway - pandering to the special interest groups with the deepest pockets. I'm looking forward to the end of the quadrennial lying season.

tony hipchest
04-13-2008, 11:42 AM
:coffee:

im a little disappointed mccain jumped all over this, too.

atleast 50% of the country will always be bitter. it was the reps when clinton was in power. just ask rush limbaugh and all his fans (who are the epitome of bitterness).

now we have bitter dems who are unsatisfied with the current regime. no matter who wins in november, the other side will be bitter, disappointed, upset, etc.

hilary turning this molehill into a mountain, is about as generic as LITP's classic "spin and diversion" tactics. its a sign of desperation. and in a real world, everybody is not so happy-go-lucky and care free as her and those she "lived with and represents".

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 12:02 PM
Obama offer anything beyond flowery speeches? That would be a real step forward for him.

I'm afraid that between Obama and McCain, McCain might actually become the better choice.

Atlanta Dan
04-13-2008, 12:48 PM
Micheal Kinsley defines a gaffe as a politician telling the truth

Obama's statement that a lot of folks who played by the rules and are bitter that the economic system of this society continues to piss on them while telling them it is raining is the truth.

The elitist part of the statement is the claim those who are bitter ?cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren?t like them.? I support Obama but he has some 'splaining to do here.

But as far as the elitist sweepstakes is concerned: McCain probably should have been prosecuted as one of the Keating Five & has a second (trophy) wife who is heir to a beer distributorship stated to be worth around $100 million; and Hillary Clinton is ... Hillary Clinton. If anyone is waiting for a non-elitist politician to run for President, be certain to leave milk and cookies by the chimney and maybe Santa will bring that politician to you for Christmas.

tony hipchest
04-13-2008, 12:57 PM
Micheal Kinsley defines a gaffe as a politician telling the truth

good stuff atl dan.

waiting for a non elitist candidat eis probably like hoping to get a qb who isnt c)cky.

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 01:41 PM
But as far as the elitist sweepstakes is concerned: McCain probably should have been prosecuted as one of the Keating Five & has a second (trophy) wife who is heir to a beer distributorship stated to be worth around $100 million


McCain is a joke. His heroics ended the day he came home from Vietnam.

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 05:44 PM
McCain is a joke. His heroics ended the day he came home from Vietnam.

I am absolutely SHOCKED (and horrified) that you of all people would make a statement like that, Jeremy.

Have you ever read about McCain's capture, imprisonment and the torture the Vietnamese put him through while he was serving the same country you serve? While I honor all of those who have served and continue to serve our country, I especially have a tremendous amount of respect for those who fought in Vietnam. I have and will always believe that the Vietnam Vets were the least respected and honored of all of the servicemen and woman who have served this country, and were treated like pariahs and lepers by our government not only upon their return, but long after the war had ended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

By then a lieutenant commander, McCain was almost killed on July 29, 1967, when he was at the epicenter of the Forrestal fire. McCain escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded;[31] McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[32] The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control.[33][34] As Forrestal headed for repairs, McCain volunteered for the USS Oriskany.

McCain being pulled out of Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi and about to become a prisoner of war[35] on October 26, 1967John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[36][37][38][39] McCain fractured both arms and a leg,[40] and then nearly drowned when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[36] After he regained consciousness, a mob attacked him,[41] crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[41][42]

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information.[41] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[41] and announced his capture. His status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times[43] and The Washington Post.[44]

McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital, receiving marginal care.[36] Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[36] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[45] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[46] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[41]

In July 1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[2] McCain was immediately offered early release.[36] The North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[41] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[47]

President Richard Nixon greets the released John McCain.In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery,[41][36] and McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession".[36] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,[48] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[41] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[49] He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[50] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements,[41] with many enduring even worse treatment than McCain.[51]

PisnNapalm
04-13-2008, 05:53 PM
Obama won't be happy until all we're armed with are flintlock rifles without any flint.

Clinton is such a pathological liar that I feel she'll be less of a threat than him now.

Atlanta Dan
04-13-2008, 05:54 PM
HTG - Jeremy obviously can articulate far better than me his position but IMO Jeremy is not minimizing the heroic deeds Senator McCain performed through 1973 but questioning what Senator McCain has done of a particularly heroic nature since then - not an unfair question to ask if the Presidency is more than some sort of life achievement award.

tony hipchest
04-13-2008, 06:03 PM
HTG - Jeremy obviously can articulate far better than me his position but IMO Jeremy is not minimizing the heroic deeds Senator McCain performed through 1973 but questioning what Senator McCain has done of a particularly heroic nature since then - not an unfair question to ask if the Presidency is more than some sort of life achievement award.i took the same out of jeremys post.

I'm afraid that between Obama and McCain, McCain might actually become the better choice.

im not sure he hasnt been the best choice all along.

ultimately, i will vote with richardson in this primary (obama). of course im more pre-disposed to his views and a little biassed, but i think his views most reflect my own.

i just hope he's the VP on the ticket so i can feel im voting for something.

revefsreleets
04-13-2008, 06:11 PM
The larger and more important emerging concern, of course is that this bitter and continued Democratic infighting is tainting both Dem candidates as they sling mud back and forth. McCain, whether you love him or hate him, has got to be enjoying watching these two jackasses rip each other (and their election hopes) apart.

millwalldavey
04-13-2008, 06:13 PM
The people who were 'offended' by these remarks should really take no offense at all. Its time they realize that there is not one candidate running from any party who truly represents them.

tony hipchest
04-13-2008, 06:25 PM
The larger and more important emerging concern, of course is that this bitter and continued Democratic infighting is tainting both Dem candidates as they sling mud back and forth.

if she had less ego, hillary woulda bowed out. richardson explained yesterday he backed obama because he took the high road when it came to the petty mudslinging.

that, and hillary playing the "you owe me for the appointments my husband gave you" card, kinda turned him off. kinda shows me he cant be bought.

anyways, i dont think i can lump obama into the jackass column just yet.

stillers4me
04-13-2008, 06:28 PM
John McCain knows exactly what it means to send our sons and daughters to war. HIs own son's are serving. HIs youngest served 7 months patrolling the Anwar Province.

This article is well worth the read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/us/politics/06mccain.html?_r=1&scp=74&sq=john+mccain&st=nyt&oref=slogin



Of the three candidates, there is only one I want as commander-in -chief. (and it's not HIllary or Obama). With the wrong person incharge of the military, one mistake can make all the concerns about healthcare, the economy, social security and all the other domestic issues moot. I don't have to agree with any president about all issues, but this is one issue I refuse to budge on.

revefsreleets
04-13-2008, 06:44 PM
if she had less ego, hillary woulda bowed out. richardson explained yesterday he backed obama because he took the high road when it came to the petty mudslinging.

that, and hillary playing the "you owe me for the appointments my husband gave you" card, kinda turned him off. kinda shows me he cant be bought.

anyways, i dont think i can lump obama into the jackass column just yet.

He's played to the lowest common denominator several times now, and he didn't have to. If he truly wanted to be "the voice of change", he should have taken the high road each and every time it was available to him. He's better than Clinton, but that really doesn't mean all that much...

I think the guys pretty sharp and he's shown some class. I think he's brought a fresh approach to running for president, and he's pushed the edges of the envelope (especially concerning engaging young people and using emerging media sources/technology to his advantage), and he caught Hillary trying to re-run Bill's campaign over again when that is SO 1992.

But it's the thing that initially helped him so much (the contrasts with his opponent) that will also ultimately undo him for this election. He didn't need to dip into her cesspool to beat her, but he did.

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 06:45 PM
HTG - Jeremy obviously can articulate far better than me his position but IMO Jeremy is not minimizing the heroic deeds Senator McCain performed through 1973 but questioning what Senator McCain has done of a particularly heroic nature since then - not an unfair question to ask if the Presidency is more than some sort of life achievement award.

Unless and until Jeremy elaborates on his post above, which I found terribly insensitive, I stand by my opinion as stated above, Dan. All of those who have served our country (and continue to serve) are forever heroes in my book. That being said however, being a "hero" isn't a requirement for my vote.

McCain is a joke. His heroics ended the day he came home from Vietnam.


From everything I have read thus far on McCain, including doing a lot of reading on his campaign website, I see nothing that would suggest he is attempting to overstate or over-exaggerate his military service in Vietnam. Even if he were - I see nothing at all wrong with him using his service record and his experiences in Vietnam as a vote-getting strategy. John Kerry did much the same thing in 2004, but the difference is - Kerry told multiple untruths about his wartime experiences which he was called out on by the Swift Vets and Veterans For Truth organizations.

(At least he isn't telling bold faced lies about getting off of a plane in Bosnia and being under fire - LOL!)

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 07:15 PM
John McCain, and his fellow POWs, are all heroes in my book. What happened to him while being imprisoned by the enemy is something I would not wish on anyone in a thousand lifetimes.

However, his character after his return from his ordeal has been far from ideal. He cheated on his ex-wife, a charge which neither he nor his current wife deny. He's done a complete 180 turn on the war in Iraq, going so so far as to suggest Condeleeza Rice would make a good VP. The same Rice who McCain slammed at the begining of the war. He's also shown an incedible amount of arrogance in the war. Someone earlier suggested that they want McCain as CIC. All I can say to you is be careful what you wish for. I promise you that McCain will micro-manage this war the same way that Vietnam was micro-managed. And that's not just me talking, that's the opinion of some very intelligent people within the Republican Party aparatus.

McCain has used his ordeal in Vietnam to his distinct advantage. I can tell you from first hand experience that there are people here in Arizona who find that disgusting.

As far as my comments being "insensitive" goes, I follow the example of the moderators of this board.

fansince'76
04-13-2008, 07:20 PM
As far as my comments being "insensitive" goes, I follow the example of the moderators of this board.

Can't make a point without calling somebody out. What a shock. /sarcasm :coffee:

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 07:22 PM
Can't make a point without calling somebody out. What a shock. /sarcasm :coffee:

I get called out twice. I'm simply responding. Or isn't that allowed anymore?

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 09:10 PM
As far as my comments being "insensitive" goes, I follow the example of the moderators of this board.

I didn't post as a Moderator, Jeremy. I posted as a REGULAR member and I took exception to your earlier post as it stood. My God - did you overdose on bitter pills today? You just couldn't resist taking yet another shot at us Mods and quite frankly, your schtick is getting old. If you had explained your position originally as you did in your latest post, I wouldn't have taken exception to it. Then, of course, you wouldn't have gotten that golden opportunity to once again play the poor innocent victim. :crying01:

However, his character after his return from his ordeal has been far from ideal. He cheated on his ex-wife, a charge which neither he nor his current wife deny.

Though I do not condone adultery, do you really believe he is the first Presidential candidate (or elected President) who has cheated on his spouse? :sofunny: Underneath that politician personna, he is HUMAN. I've read varying accounts on the whys and becauses of his adultery but the only parties who are privy to the truths behind his behaviors are those directly involved and their legal counsel. A candidate's marital history is not a precursor for me to shun away from supporting him/her. His marital conduct doesn't affect me, you or the rest of the country.

He's done a complete 180 turn on the war in Iraq, going so so far as to suggest Condeleeza Rice would make a good VP. The same Rice who McCain slammed at the begining of the war. He's also shown an incedible amount of arrogance in the war.

I agree - Condi would make an excellent VP. So he flip-flopped on his support - again - he's not the first candidate (or CIC) to do so and he won't be the last. McCain isn't stupid - he knows damned well that choosing Condi as a running mate would be a very smart move politically not only because of her White House experience, but for other very obvious reasons.

Someone earlier suggested that they want McCain as CIC. All I can say to you is be careful what you wish for. I promise you that McCain will micro-manage this war the same way that Vietnam was micro-managed. And that's not just me talking, that's the opinion of some very intelligent people within the Republican Party aparatus.


I want McCain as CIC too. Listening to, researching and reviewing the platforms of Beauty and the Beast (Obama being the Beauty) :chuckle: only reinforces my decision to support McCain. All I know at this point is that my own personal platform more closely parallels that of McCain than those of B & the B and though I am not a huge fan of any war that the country I love is involved in, this country and those I love have been safe since 911 and that is what is most important to me. I believe McCain will continue to stand up to terrorism and do whatever he has to do to keep this country safe. I don't feel that same vibe from either Obama or the Rotweiler.

I have friends who are deeply involved with both parties here in PA. My GOP friends totally support McCain and what he stands for, and surprisingly, so do a few of my Demo pals though they can't admit that publicly. I feel comfortable with my decision to support him in this election.

McCain has used his ordeal in Vietnam to his distinct advantage. I can tell you from first hand experience that there are people here in Arizona who find that disgusting.


I don't see where the problem is with him highlighting his experiences in Vietnam as a testament of his strength. Everything he has stated with regard to his service and ordeal is fact. Though I did feel empathy towards him when I first read of his horrifying ordeal in Vietnam, I also felt a tremendous amount of admiration and respect for him because it clearly showed me that this is a very strong man, both physically and mentally to have survived that experience, which are both attributes that I look for in a leader.

If some people find that disgusting, it is because they have never walked a mile in this man's shoes, imho. Hey - whatever floats their boat.

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 09:19 PM
I think it's amazing how much conservatives in this country have sold their souls to keep power.

If McCain gets elected, it'll be because he was a POW. It damn sure won't be because he has any of the answers this country needs right now.

John McCain = a third George Bush term.

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 09:31 PM
I think it's amazing how much conservatives in this country have sold their souls to keep power.

If McCain gets elected, it'll be because he was a POW. It damn sure won't be because he has any of the answers this country needs right now.

John McCain = a third George Bush term.

For the 150,000th time - I am NOT a conservative and I didn't sell my soul to anyone. I have posted at least a dozen times on this board that though I am registered as GOP, I vote person, not party. If I felt there was a Demo candidate whose ideals I felt a parallel with, I would gladly hand them my vote. WIth the 2 candidates the Demos are presenting, I can't do that.

I don't support McCain because he was a POW. You obviously didn't read what I posted above. :banging:

All I know at this point is that my own personal platform more closely parallels that of McCain than those of B & the B

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 09:51 PM
For the 150,000th time - I am NOT a conservative and I didn't sell my soul to anyone. I have posted at least a dozen times on this board that though I am registered as GOP, I vote person, not party. If I felt there was a Demo candidate whose ideals I felt a parallel with, I would gladly hand them my vote. WIth the 2 candidates the Demos are presenting, I can't do that.

I don't support McCain because he was a POW. You obviously didn't read what I posted above. :banging:

I never said you sold your soul, I said conservatives in America sold their soul. If you're not a conservative, then stop getting all bent out of shape.

As far as the POW thing goes, that's how I see things going. It might not be the reason you end up using, but it's going to be the issue that a lot of people are going to use to justify a vote for a man who's values are clearly not that of a real conservative.

If he were a real conservatives, he would have already told Rice hell no.

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 09:59 PM
I never said you sold your soul, I said conservatives in America sold their soul. If you're not a conservative, then stop getting all bent out of shape.

As far as the POW thing goes, that's how I see things going. It might not be the reason you end up using, but it's going to be the issue that a lot of people are going to use to justify a vote for a man who's values are clearly not that of a real conservative.

If he were a real conservatives, he would have already told Rice hell no.

Funny thing - you posted what you did about "conservative" and "selling one's soul" right after my post. :scratchchin:

I never viewed McCain as a true conservative, and that is probably yet one more reason why I am supporting him. I strongly feel that out of the 3 candidates, he is more apt to try to work in unison with both parties rather than towing party lines.

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 10:05 PM
Funny thing - you posted what you did about "conservative" and "selling one's soul" right after my post. :scratchchin:

I never viewed McCain as a true conservative, and that is probably yet one more reason why I am supporting him. I strongly feel that out of the 3 candidates, he is more apt to try to work in unison with both parties rather than towing party lines.

I have a hard time seeing that. I can't recall a candidate in my lifetime who has shown less respect for the opposition party than McCain. This is the guy who crossed a Union picket line to make an appearance on a late night talk show. I can't honestly see McCain shaking hands withr Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi.

I wish the Republicans would have the balls to run a real conservative out there. Someone like Dick Lugar would put this country back on track. But the Republicans won't do that and instead will keep running these B listers out there so that Middle America will vote for them.

The Republicans are on the verge of becoming moreally bankrupt and it's because they sold their souls to have men like John McCain out in front of the party.

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 10:18 PM
I have a hard time seeing that. I can't recall a candidate in my lifetime who has shown less respect for the opposition party than McCain. This is the guy who crossed a Union picket line to make an appearance on a late night talk show. I can't honestly see McCain shaking hands withr Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi.

I wish the Republicans would have the balls to run a real conservative out there. Someone like Dick Lugar would put this country back on track. But the Republicans won't do that and instead will keep running these B listers out there so that Middle America will vote for them.

The Republicans are on the verge of becoming moreally bankrupt and it's because they sold their souls to have men like John McCain out in front of the party.

Actually, from everything I've read and heard from Demo politicos here in PA, McCain is fairly well-respected among Democrats.

I could envision someone wanting to put Nancy Pelosi in a choke hold, but I can't see anyone consciously wanting to shake hands with her. :chuckle:

Well - if the GOP is becoming "morally bankrupt" as you stated, the Demos won that race a long time ago. Probably makes them feel special - it's the only race they've won in the last 7+ years and with the two choices they are offering in this election, that 7 is likely to be an 12 or possibly a 16. :sofunny: Talk about a party "selling its soul"!

Jeremy
04-13-2008, 10:26 PM
Actually, from everything I've read and heard from Demo politicos here in PA, McCain is fairly well-respected among Democrats.

I could envision someone wanting to put Nancy Pelosi in a choke hold, but I can't see anyone consciously wanting to shake hands with her. :chuckle:

Well - if the GOP is becoming "morally bankrupt" as you stated, the Demos won that race a long time ago. Probably makes them feel special - it's the only race they've won in the last 7+ years and with the two choices they are offering in this election, that 7 is likely to be an 12 or possibly a 16. :sofunny: Talk about a party "selling its soul"!

Are you being serious? McCain is in serious trouble in the fall. I can't speak for anyone there, but out here in the West, McCain is seen as Bush III. Even among Arizonans, they don't see him as someone who can bring any kind of meaningfull change to the table.

As I said before, McCain = a third Bush term in the White House. Do you honestly believe that people want anther 4 years or incompetance, arrogance, and dishonesty?

PS: I really wish you'd drop this "I'm not a conservative" bit. With that last post I don't see how you can do it and expect anyone to believe you.

MasterOfPuppets
04-13-2008, 10:49 PM
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
thanks too our two party system, this country is about as divided as it gets. not to mention god has been all but banned from the country......our founding fathers have to be rolling in there graves......

HometownGal
04-13-2008, 10:53 PM
Are you being serious? McCain is in serious trouble in the fall. I can't speak for anyone there, but out here in the West, McCain is seen as Bush III. Even among Arizonans, they don't see him as someone who can bring any kind of meaningfull change to the table.

As I said before, McCain = a third Bush term in the White House. Do you honestly believe that people want anther 4 years or incompetance, arrogance, and dishonesty?

PS: I really wish you'd drop this "I'm not a conservative" bit. With that last post I don't see how you can do it and expect anyone to believe you.

Believe it or not, Jeremy, there are other voters in the country besides those in Arizona. :wink02: And to answer your question - yes - I am being serious. Completely serious.

Dumb and Dumber are going to hand the GOP the White House once again with their incessant flame fests and playing pin the tail on the donkey (literally) instead of concentrating on the issues that are important to Americans and where they want to see change. I believe you are going to be terribly disappointed in the fall.

P.S. And I really wish you'd drop this obsession you have with conservatives or anyone who happens to lean to the right. To quote the late great Clark Gable - - - -

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" who believes me when I state that I am most definitely not a conservative. Even if I were, I wouldn't be ashamed to admit it.

P.S.S. I don't view Bush totally in the same light that you do, but we'll save that discussion for another time. :wink02:

revefsreleets
04-14-2008, 09:08 AM
My God, it finally is beginning to make sense! People "out west" know more than people back East! I finally see the light! No wonder Jeremy(s) knows so much more than the rest of us.

McCain as Bush III is one of the most ridiculous assertions ever foisted off on the public. It's far left or far right claptrap scare tactics, and it's utter nonsense.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/02/21/mccain.ART_ART_02-21-08_A1_Q49DQNV.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

Jeremy
04-14-2008, 09:32 AM
This is ridiculous! How many times are you going to allow this string of personal attacks on me to continue? Is this jerk above the rules?

This is a total joke.

Godfather
04-14-2008, 09:35 AM
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
thanks too our two party system, this country is about as divided as it gets. not to mention god has been all but banned from the country......our founding fathers have to be rolling in there graves......

Screw that "indivisible" nonsense!

(Just kidding!!!)

HometownGal
04-14-2008, 09:46 AM
This is ridiculous! How many times are you going to allow this string of personal attacks on me to continue? Is this jerk above the rules?

This is a total joke.

I don't get where you feel you were "personally attacked" Jeremy. Geez - lighten up. There wasn't any name-calling - at least by revs. See your third sentence above. :coffee:

Jeremy
04-14-2008, 10:33 AM
I don't get where you feel you were "personally attacked" Jeremy. Geez - lighten up. There wasn't any name-calling - at least by revs. See your third sentence above. :coffee:

Jeremy(s) isn't a personal attack? What a joke.

Dino 6 Rings
04-14-2008, 12:26 PM
As a follower of the Dark Lord, I can say with conviction that Obama will lose to McCain in November. Hillary was a much stronger candidate in the General Election, the Dark Lord had to see her defeated in the Primary, hence the kid gloves Obama got early on from the Media. He wiped the floor with her in debates, in fund raising and in staying on his issues. She was turned from a hard strong woman into a crying Ninny in New Hampshire, her Snipers in Bosnia bit was exposed by a fellow Dem, not the GOP, to see them tear each other apart only makes stronger the GOP candidate. The Rev Wright Obama thing was exposed by Hillary, just as the Dark Lord wanted.

As for McCain, he is no conservative. He crosses the aisle all the time to make deals with the Dems, and pass legislation that makes the Dark Lord very angry, but still, he is truly the Lesser of the 3 evils currently running to be President. Which, makes me sick, I'd have rathered someone stronger than McCain, but one thing is for sure about McCain. He'll be solid on the anti-terror side of things. He was for the Iraq war to start, but wanted it to be handled differently. As a soldier, he wanted 500,000 ground troops on the ground from day one, knowing that a Hammer was the way to go. Not the watered down, small force that we went in with. Tanks Tanks and More Tanks is what we needed, not a Police force.

McCain will put the life of our soldiers has his priority, he'll keep them in a war zone, cause that's what soldiers are for, but they'll have the equipment and the weapons and the backing that they require.

McCain has had some very shady dealings in his past, with the Keading 5 and the ex wife that he left, after cheating on, but as a President, I would have to believe, he'll do whats best for our Country first.

I'll be voting for the candidate that won't raise My taxes, won't thwart my right to own a weapon, won't negotiate with terrorists, and will put the Country's needs above his personal desires.

stlrtruck
04-14-2008, 01:55 PM
I'll be voting for the candidate that won't raise My taxes, won't thwart my right to own a weapon, won't negotiate with terrorists, and will put the Country's needs above his personal desires.

Let me know when that person enters the presidential race. :drink: :toofunny:

Jeremy
04-14-2008, 02:10 PM
I'll be voting for the candidate that won't raise My taxes, won't thwart my right to own a weapon, won't negotiate with terrorists, and will put the Country's needs above his personal desires.

Then none of them are for you.

Dino 6 Rings
04-14-2008, 03:02 PM
Then none of them are for you.

Isn't that sad. really when you look at it, isn't that such a sad thing.

Jeremy
04-14-2008, 03:20 PM
Isn't that sad. really when you look at it, isn't that such a sad thing.

Of course it's sad, but what are you going to do? You need to have money to run for President. That means that people who actually understand the middle class are basically shut out of the system.

And you can't talk about campaign finance refrom or people accuse of you being against the 1st Amendment.

HometownGal
04-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Jeremy(s) isn't a personal attack? What a joke.

No - the joke is that every time someone breathes wrong in your direction, you're whining about it. If that is what you view as a personal attack, might I suggest growing some thicker skin? C'mon Jeremy- this is absolutely ridiculous.

You have said far worse to people around here and we've let it go, so please - again - lighten up a bit.

Dino 6 Rings
04-14-2008, 05:45 PM
Of course it's sad, but what are you going to do? You need to have money to run for President. That means that people who actually understand the middle class are basically shut out of the system.

And you can't talk about campaign finance refrom or people accuse of you being against the 1st Amendment.

What am I going to do about it...start my own party that's what.

TEA Party 2012!!!

Atlanta Dan
04-14-2008, 08:54 PM
Proposed new song to play as Obama takes the stage at rallies


As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so f***ing crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and class less and free
But you're still f***ing peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

Working Class Hero
by John Lennon

millwalldavey
04-14-2008, 09:55 PM
I see Clinton already has the commercials rolling... i saw one tonight about 30 min ago.

HometownGal
04-14-2008, 10:11 PM
I see Clinton already has the commercials rolling... i saw one tonight about 30 min ago.

Unfortunately, we're seeing Bitchary commercials on the hour here in the Burgh because of the upcoming primary. My slipper has gotten quite the workout the last couple of days. :chuckle:

NJarhead
04-14-2008, 10:18 PM
Is there anyone on this MB from Berkeley, CA?

Preacher
04-14-2008, 10:19 PM
Is there anyone on this MB from Berkeley, CA?

I am about half an hour away.

Why?

NJarhead
04-14-2008, 10:22 PM
I am about half an hour away.

Why?

But you're not one of those Code Pink fruit cakes. I also doubt that you're protesting the Marine Corps recruiting station. Here's how I know: http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-bloom.gif

Godfather
04-15-2008, 11:33 AM
What am I going to do about it...start my own party that's what.

TEA Party 2012!!!

I'll declare my candidacy for the nomination right now. Campaigns are being launched earlier every cycle so I might as well start before the 2008 election even happens. Especially since I don't have the name recognition so I need more of a head start.

revefsreleets
04-15-2008, 08:44 PM
Jeremy(s) isn't a personal attack? What a joke.

Wah. Jesus, dude, grow a set of balls! Seriously, you are too much...you flame bait left and right, are the self professed "Keeper of all that is true and factual and right" to the exclusion of all actual facts and figures that contradict your almost always wrong and toeheaded myopic views, and your reaction to being called out is to whine to the mods, now publicly?

What a sad and miserable little man...why don't you post how you just can't take it anymore and retire from the board for the 16th time?

Preacher
04-15-2008, 09:08 PM
But you're not one of those Code Pink fruit cakes. I also doubt that you're protesting the Marine Corps recruiting station. Here's how I know: http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-bloom.gif

I guess you could say that!