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Jeremy
04-28-2008, 12:23 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-6-405/Touching-scene.html?lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

My favorite storyline

April 27, 2008 5:30 PM


Posted by ESPN.com's Matt Mosley

When the Lions selected Army safety Caleb Campbell in the seventh round Sunday, the crowd at Radio City Music City Hall erupted into a "U-S-A" chant. Campbell is attempting to become the first football player to take advantage of a recently implemented rule by the U.S. Military Academy that allows athletes to play professional sports immediately upon graduation.

In a somewhat awkward moment, Campbell used my seat during an impromptu interview session. The Perryton, Texas native said he was hesitant to show up because he didn't know if he'd be drafted, but his agent convinced him to make an appearance. He wore his military uniform, which consisted of dark gray pants and a white short-sleeve shirt displaying his rank. And just after he fielded a phone call from Lions GM Matt Millen, Campbell appeared on the ESPN set with Trey Wingo and company. As he made his way into the auditorium, Wingo, Ron Jaworski and Chris Mortensen applauded.

"This is unbelievable," said the 6-foot-2, 229-pound Campbell, who was wearing a Lions cap. "It gives me goose bumps."

I asked Campbell whether he'd received any backlash from former cadets regarding his unique situation.

"I've heard some of that," said Campbell, who was recently featured on ESPN's "E:60." "It's tough for me because as an officer, I trained to take a platoon into battle. It was initially sort of a tough thing, but who's to say I can't still have a career as an officer?"

We had a nice discussion going until some reporter demanded to know who Campbell was supporting in the upcoming presidential election. He wisely responded, "No comment."

Campbell said he hopes to "show a lot of people who are skeptical about the academy's policy that this can really be good."

What kind of player will he be?

Well, Campbell could add some weight to his frame and play outside linebacker or he could lose a little weight and play strong safety. He's a punishing hitter who does a nice job against the run. The Lions will have to find a way to keep him from getting exposed in coverage.

On his off day, which is normally Tuesday in the NFL, he'll be required to speak to local high schools about opportunities in the Army. Say what you will, but I think it's a great move by the powers that be at West Point. Campbell could end up having a major impact on the recruitment of soldiers.

And if high school athletes realize they have a shot at playing professional football, more of them will consider playing for Army. On a second day that held very little drama, Campbell provided a nice storyline.

For all the criticism that Millen has taken, he should be praised for this pick

lilyoder6
04-28-2008, 01:35 PM
this is my unfavorite storyline.. he made a commintment to serve his country and now he is gonna undermine it and go to the nfl?? what does this show to kids.. oh if ur an athlete u can get out of anything??? look at roger staubach, rocky blier they were in the military and served even tho they were in the nfl...

Steelman16
04-29-2008, 02:03 AM
I'm gonna have to agree with yoder on this one...

If you join the military, you're siging a check payable to the U.S.A. of your service and up to your life.

Athletes can get away with anything these days. All we have to do is look at the Bengals and the Ravens to find that out.

stlrtruck
04-29-2008, 08:50 AM
Remember, David Robinson was the first one to do this back when he got his career with the Spurs.

The only thing I can say is that the example should be Pat Tillman. The man left sports to be in the military - now that's leadership!!!

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:20 AM
Remember, David Robinson was the first one to do this back when he got his career with the Spurs.

The only thing I can say is that the example should be Pat Tillman. The man left sports to be in the military - now that's leadership!!!

Robinson served two years active duty and then served out the rest of his term as a reservist.

Bryce Fisher of the Tennessee Titans attended the Air Force Academy and did the same thing. Last time I read anything about him, he was still a member of the Guard.

fansince'76
04-29-2008, 10:34 AM
Well, being a 7th rounder, there's certainly no guarantee he'll make the roster. However, it does frost me a bit that this guy got the benefits of a free college education complements of the taxpayer with the caveat that he owed his country (in this case the Army) 5 years of service upon completion of that education, and now he doesn't have to honor that commitment. Staubach wasn't too good to serve his 5 years in the Navy and he won the Heisman. What makes this kid so special?

TackleMeBen
04-29-2008, 10:35 AM
all he is doing is taking advantage of a clause the academy put into place. and they did so thinking that it would help them get better football players to come to the military academies. nothing wrong with taking advantage of something that is there. its not like he is AWOL.

fansince'76
04-29-2008, 10:41 AM
all he is doing is taking advantage of a clause the academy put into place. and they did so thinking that it would help them get better football players to come to the military academies. nothing wrong with taking advantage of something that is there. its not like he is AWOL.

So following that vein, I guess Harvard and Yale should relax their academic standards so they can get better football players? There are hundreds of colleges in this country besides service academies a kid can attend if they want to be a jock first and foremost.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 10:42 AM
but still like what 76 said.. he went to college 4 FREE.. and then the gov spent money on him to be trained as a slodier.. i just don't think its right.. u made a commintment u should keep with it....

yeah.. i mean this kid chose to go there.. he knew what he was doing.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:43 AM
all he is doing is taking advantage of a clause the academy put into place. and they did so thinking that it would help them get better football players to come to the military academies. nothing wrong with taking advantage of something that is there. its not like he is AWOL.

The military is better of without this kid in uniform. The military is looking for men of honor to lead troops. If this young man wants to waste his training, then he has no place on the field of battle.

TackleMeBen
04-29-2008, 10:44 AM
So following that vein, I guess Harvard and Yale should relax their academic standards so they can get better football players? There are hundreds of colleges in this country besides service academies a kid can attend if they want to be a jock first and foremost.
that is true. but you cant fault the kid for doing this. i mean they did put this in place for the reason to get better athletes. there was a debate on the radio station this am in detroit about it.

TackleMeBen
04-29-2008, 10:46 AM
but still like what 76 said.. he went to college 4 FREE.. and then the gov spent money on him to be trained as a slodier.. i just don't think its right.. u made a commintment u should keep with it....

yeah.. i mean this kid chose to go there.. he knew what he was doing.

yes he knew what he was doing, just like everyone that signs up to join the military. they know that there is a chance that they could be shipped off to war and get killed... but you have people in this country b*tching about our men and women getting killed in the line of duty.. that is what they signed up for and they know what to expect. does it suck, absolutely, but unfortunely that is life and their are terrible people in the world and war sometimes is necessary.

fansince'76
04-29-2008, 10:46 AM
that is true. but you cant fault the kid for doing this. i mean they did put this in place for the reason to get better athletes. there was a debate on the radio station this am in detroit about it.

You're right - I can't really fault the kid for doing it, as it wasn't him who implemented the policy.

TackleMeBen
04-29-2008, 10:49 AM
You're right - I can't really fault the kid for doing it, as it wasn't him who implemented the policy.
no, you can fault the military academy for putting the rule in place. whether we agree with it or not, its there for them to take advantage of...

we are still friends, '76 right ??? :hug:

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:42 AM
You're right - I can't really fault the kid for doing it, as it wasn't him who implemented the policy.

I can. He's not a man of honor. He doesn't deserve to be called an officer in the United States Military.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:51 AM
I can. He's not a man of honor. He doesn't deserve to be called an officer in the United States Military.

He went thought the training. Went through the academy.

Now if you had the option of playing football or going to a post. what would you pick.

Im a veteran of the Iraq war. I lost hearing in both ears. Need to wear hearing aids for the rest of my life.

I belive that all men should serve their country. I would not and do not hold it against Campbell for choosing football.

The military is a JOB! If someone came to your job and said.........Hey......you have the option of staying here or going to play football....What Would YOU do?

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 12:26 PM
He went thought the training. Went through the academy.

Now if you had the option of playing football or going to a post. what would you pick.

Im a veteran of the Iraq war. I lost hearing in both ears. Need to wear hearing aids for the rest of my life.

I belive that all men should serve their country. I would not and do not hold it against Campbell for choosing football.

The military is a JOB! If someone came to your job and said.........Hey......you have the option of staying here or going to play football....What Would YOU do?

I would honor the committment I had made to serve my country and not go to New York and grandstand.

stlrtruck
04-29-2008, 01:13 PM
Robinson served two years active duty and then served out the rest of his term as a reservist.

Bryce Fisher of the Tennessee Titans attended the Air Force Academy and did the same thing. Last time I read anything about him, he was still a member of the Guard.

Then I sit corrected. I recalled Robinson being released from all active duty and only serving as a reservist. And I didn't know about Mr. Fisher.

However, I still think the kid should have honored his commitment.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 03:09 PM
Then I sit corrected. I recalled Robinson being released from all active duty and only serving as a reservist. And I didn't know about Mr. Fisher.

However, I still think the kid should have honored his commitment.

When you attend an academy, you actually make two committments. The first time is when you accept your spot before your freshman year. The second time is when you opt to return after your sophmore year.

So this kid as twice said he understands what it means to be a member of the United States Army, but now he wants out to go play pro football.

Sorry buddy, your nation needs you on the battlefield and not in an NFL meeting room.

Dino 6 Rings
04-29-2008, 05:35 PM
When you attend an academy, you actually make two committments. The first time is when you accept your spot before your freshman year. The second time is when you opt to return after your sophmore year.

So this kid as twice said he understands what it means to be a member of the United States Army, but now he wants out to go play pro football.

Sorry buddy, your nation needs you on the battlefield and not in an NFL meeting room.

Sorry but you're way off base on this. The academies know, that if a kid shows great promise on the football field, they could get drafted into the NFL. They take a chance on bringing a kid in as much as the kid takes a risk going to serve his country. To start saying this kid isn't worthy being on the battlefield is just silly. He gets an opportunity that thousands of athletes that attend the academies will never get, and never dream about getting. I'm all for a guy getting "a shot" at something other than the Military life, if his path should take him that way.

I think it not only helps the future recruitment efforts of our military by having Soldiers or at least Cadets in our very highly public forum of Sports, but it also helps the Sport bringing in a character kid. You don't go from Army to the NFL very often these days, which shows me the kid is a hard worker and dedicated to a sport he loves. I'd be honored to have him on our team. Just as much as I'd be honored if he served overseas in our Military.

Yes he made a commitment, but the Army in turn also committed to him, that should he be drafted, they'd allow him to go try to play at the next level. I wouldn't be surprised at all if having this guy go straight to the NFL doesn't sell Lions Jersey's to our Soldiers and give them a feeling of "attachment" to a guy they get to see play on Sunday's.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 05:43 PM
Sorry but you're way off base on this. The academies know, that if a kid shows great promise on the football field, they could get drafted into the NFL. They take a chance on bringing a kid in as much as the kid takes a risk going to serve his country. To start saying this kid isn't worthy being on the battlefield is just silly. He gets an opportunity that thousands of athletes that attend the academies will never get, and never dream about getting. I'm all for a guy getting "a shot" at something other than the Military life, if his path should take him that way.

I think it not only helps the future recruitment efforts of our military by having Soldiers or at least Cadets in our very highly public forum of Sports, but it also helps the Sport bringing in a character kid. You don't go from Army to the NFL very often these days, which shows me the kid is a hard worker and dedicated to a sport he loves. I'd be honored to have him on our team. Just as much as I'd be honored if he served overseas in our Military.

Yes he made a commitment, but the Army in turn also committed to him, that should he be drafted, they'd allow him to go try to play at the next level. I wouldn't be surprised at all if having this guy go straight to the NFL doesn't sell Lions Jersey's to our Soldiers and give them a feeling of "attachment" to a guy they get to see play on Sunday's.

Sorry, but I'll throw my support behind Bryce Fisher. A guy who didn't grandstand in New York and who understands that meaning of the word committment.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 05:45 PM
I would have made the same EXACT decision he did. The U.S. Army nor the VA are holding up thier end of the bargain for the kids that are coming home wounded or otherwise (i.e, condemned barracks, shotty and corrupt hospitals, courts martial following virtually every engagement and on and on). He has an opportunity to make millions and provide a future for himself in professional sports....something that most of us can only dream about. He's following HIS path, not yours and not mine, HIS. Anyone who says they'd rather go to combat than the NFL if faced with the same choice is a F&*$ing liar (period).

Dino 6 Rings
04-29-2008, 05:50 PM
Sorry, but I'll throw my support behind Bryce Fisher. A guy who didn't grandstand in New York and who understands that meaning of the word committment.

My impression is that the people in New York were showing they were Proud of him being a Soldier and that he was overwhelmed by their enthusiasm. But then again I'm not a bitter person about things like that.

Stand behind who you want. Its your call.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 05:53 PM
I would have made the same EXACT decision he did. The U.S. Army nor the VA are holding up thier end of the bargain for the kids that are coming home wounded or otherwise (i.e, condemned barracks, shotty and corrupt hospitals, courts martial following virtually every engagement and on and on). He has an opportunity to make millions and provide a furure for himself in professional sports....something that most of us can only dream about. He's following HIS path, not yours and not mine, HIS. Anyone who says they'd rather go to combat than the NFL if faced with the same choice is a F&*$ing liar (period).

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I think the US taxpayers should be entitled to 25% of his salary for 5 years.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 05:55 PM
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I think the US taxpayers should be entitled to 25% of his salary for 5 years.

And that is your opinion. I think you'll find that you're in the minority there as well.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 05:55 PM
My impression is that the people in New York were showing they were Proud of him being a Soldier and that he was overwhelmed by their enthusiasm. But then again I'm not a bitter person about things like that.

Stand behind who you want. Its your call.

He's not a soldier. A soldier fights for something.

He's nothing more than a mascot. About as useful as the Army mule.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 05:56 PM
And that is your opinion. I think you'll find that you're in the minority there as well.

And that's why we're going to lose the war in Iraq.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 05:57 PM
My impression is that the people in New York were showing they were Proud of him being a Soldier and that he was overwhelmed by their enthusiasm. But then again I'm not a bitter person about things like that.

Stand behind who you want. Its your call.

Because that is precisely what it was. :applaudit:

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 06:00 PM
Because that is precisely what it was. :applaudit:

So now we cheer people who choose not to fight for their country.

:drink:

I need a drink.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 06:00 PM
And that's why we're going to lose the war in Iraq.

you...you're joking right? We're going to lose the war in Iraq because our Military Academies have clauses that allow graduates to become professional atheletes??? That is just asinine.

Dino 6 Rings
04-29-2008, 06:01 PM
And that's why we're going to lose the war in Iraq.

So by that logic are we going to "lose" the Iraq war because Detriot drafted a player from West Point?

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 06:02 PM
So by that logic are we going to "lose" the Iraq war because Detriot drafted a player from West Point?

apparently...:noidea:

Dino 6 Rings
04-29-2008, 06:03 PM
So now we cheer people who choose not to fight for their country.

:drink:

I need a drink.

No. We cheer people that have the Balls to go to a Military Academy in the first place and then, because of hard work and dedication get an opportunity to play a sport they love, and we love, at the highest level possible.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 06:03 PM
you...you're joking right? We're going to lose the war in Iraq because our Military Academies have clauses that allow graduates to become professional atheletes??? That is just asinine.

Yeah....pretty much. The goal of the military academies is to produce military leaders, not NFL players.

The clause is stupid.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 06:06 PM
The clause is stupid.

Again, you're in the minority. Why are you so hell bent on this issue? Guys get opportunities to get out of the military early all the time. We just don't hear about it because it's normally not to join the NFL. Usually they're congratulated and given a send off.

Godfather
04-29-2008, 06:59 PM
Then I sit corrected. I recalled Robinson being released from all active duty and only serving as a reservist. And I didn't know about Mr. Fisher.

However, I still think the kid should have honored his commitment.

I thought Robinson was a 4-F because he grew taller than the 7-foot maximum during his time at Annapolis?

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Again, you're in the minority. Why are you so hell bent on this issue? Guys get opportunities to get out of the military early all the time. We just don't hear about it because it's normally not to join the NFL. Usually they're congratulated and given a send off.

Which just goes to show that more people care about football than care about the future of this country.

I'm so hell bent because this just furthurs the "everyone is special" culture we have in this country. Go back and look at what pro athletes did in previous wars. Ted Williams lost years of his career to go and fly fighter jets.

In World War II, 638 former National Football League players served. Nineteen were killed.

Then you have Pat Tillman and Jeramy Staat who both walked away from NFL careers to serve this country.

The concepts of honor and being proud to defend your nation simply no longer apply to these modern athletes.

This article pretty much sums up my feelings on these "special" athletes.

http://sports.aol.com/voices/blackistone/_a/armys-elite-athletes-program/20080429104109990001

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:18 PM
Which just goes to show that more people care about football than care about the future of this country.

I'm so hell bent because this just furthurs the "everyone is special" culture we have in this country. Go back and look at what pro athletes did in previous wars. Ted Williams lost years of his career to go and fly fighter jets.

In World War II, 638 former National Football League players served. Nineteen were killed.

Then you have Pat Tillman and Jeramy Staat who both walked away from NFL careers to serve this country.

The concepts of honor and being proud to defend your nation simply no longer apply to these modern athletes.

This article pretty much sums up my feelings on these "special" athletes.

http://sports.aol.com/voices/blackistone/_a/armys-elite-athletes-program/20080429104109990001

The culture during WWII was much much different than it is now (not to mention that it was a WORLD WAR and there was a draft).

Vietnam - again, draft.

As far as Staat and Tillman, what they did was very honorable. No question about it. However, their first choice was also to play in the NFL.., before they ever saw the inside of a recruiting office, so spare me. Like I said, it happens more often than you know. If you're so concerned then maybe I can help you find a recruiter.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:25 PM
The culture during WWII was much much different than it is now (not to mention that it was a WORLD WAR and there was a draft).

Vietnam - again, draft.

As far as Staat and Tillman, what they did was very honorable. No question about it. However, their first choice was also to play in the NFL.., before they ever saw the inside of a recruiting office, so spare me. Like I said, it happens more often than you know. If you're so concerned then maybe I can help you find a recruiter.

I'm an Air Force Staff Sergeant my friend, I don't need a recruiter.

BaddBoi70
04-29-2008, 07:25 PM
I applaud the US Army for their tactics. That is what this amounts to - advertising tactics to increase recruiting efforts! As a former "Weekend Warrior", Mr. Campbell will still have to serve time as a Reservist, which IMO goes towards his repayment of tax payer dollars used for his education. His time spent on Tuesday's towards recruiting efforts is genius:applaudit: Our military needs top talent to lead our men and women for future generations to come and this tactic can help the US Army achieve that goal.

It is up to parents to help their children understand why and how this talented kid was able to take advantage of his God given talents/skills to play a sport that we all love!

Just my 2 cents :wink02:

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:33 PM
I'm an Air Force Staff Sergeant my friend, I don't need a recruiter.
Well then young SSGT, YOUR Government and YOUR service academy as well as mine and the Army's have decided that they can allow a select few to graduate and persue a career in professional sports. I think, as do a great many in and out of uniform, that it's a great program.

From where I sit, it appears that you just seem to need a soap box from which you can spew your constant negativety. You go right ahead with that. I just pray that you're not one of "those" staff NCO's who subjects his troops to it day in and day out.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Well then young SSGT, YOUR Government and YOUR service academy as well as mine and the Army's have decided that they can allow a select few to graduate and persue a career in professional sports. I think, as do a great many in and out of uniform, that it's a great program.

From where I sit, it appears that you just seem to need a soap box from which you can spew your constant negativety. You go right ahead with that. I just pray that you're not one of "those" staff NCO's who subjects his troops to it day in and day out.

And a great many feel that the program is bogus and should be stopped. I was listening to the Dan Patrick show yesterday and it seemed as though a vast majority of callers and e-mailers to his show were very much opposed to this program and saw it as the pathetic sham that it is.

And yes, most of those calling and e-mailing were active duty or veterans.

And by the way, MY service academy doesn't have this program. We expect our officers to actually bo officers and not mascots.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:42 PM
“New York City. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious."

A man who loves his country....as long as it doesn't include NYC? Whatever Bud.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:43 PM
A man who loves his country....as long as it doesn't include NYC? Whatever Bud.

Well we all can't be as perfect as you.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:44 PM
And a great many feel that the program is bogus and should be stopped. I was listening to the Dan Patrick show yesterday and it seemed as though a vast majority of callers and e-mailers to his show were very much opposed to this program and saw it as the pathetic sham that it is.

And yes, most of those calling and e-mailing were active duty or veterans.

And by the way, MY service academy doesn't have this program. We expect our officers to actually bo officers and not mascots.

Well, I am a veteran and I don't listen to the Dan Patrick show. Sorry.

Let me rephrase: EVERY SERVICE (Yes all of them) have alternate programs for graduates who are eligible to persue a career in pro sports (and other fields).

BaddBoi70
04-29-2008, 07:44 PM
And that's why we're going to lose the war in Iraq.

Dude - are you serious? C'mon, this kid has a chance of a lifetime, one that most of us level headed people woudl take advantage of and do what he is doing - play in the NFL. His recruiting efforts are more than enough repayment of his "free" education IMO.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:46 PM
Well we all can't be as perfect as you.

And we all can't be "old salts" like you oh Staff Sergeant of the Air Force.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:47 PM
Well, I am a veteran and I don't listen to the Dan Patrick show. Sorry.

Let me rephrase: EVERY SERVICE (Yes all of them) have alternate programs for graduates who are eligible to persue a career in pro sports (and other fields).

Not one that allows them to buy out the last three years of their committment.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:50 PM
Dude - are you serious? C'mon, this kid has a chance of a lifetime, one that most of us level headed people woudl take advantage of and do what he is doing - play in the NFL. His recruiting efforts are more than enough repayment of his "free" education IMO.

Be sure to pass that along to the members of his graduating class who might not come home from their deployments.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:51 PM
http://forums.steelersfever.com/images/avatars/x_detroit.jpg

Detroit Lions = Communists!!! lmao. Some folks are just too darned ignorant. It kills me. You're the man Staff Sergeant! :thumbsup: *rolls eyes*

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:52 PM
Be sure to pass that along to the members of his graduating class who might not come home from their deployments.

You mean his friends who are happy for him and who probably think you're a fool? Yes, pass it on.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:52 PM
http://forums.steelersfever.com/images/avatars/x_detroit.jpg

Detroit Lions = Communists!!! lmao. Some folks are just too darned ignorant. It kills me. You're the man Staff Sergeant! :thumbsup: *rolls eyes*

My sentiments exactly. Another one for the ignore list.

BaddBoi70
04-29-2008, 07:53 PM
Be sure to pass that along to the members of his graduating class who might not come home from their deployments.

Every one of his comrades signed the SAME contract! They ALL had an opportunity, but obviously not all of them have the skill set this young man possesses.

Enuff said :thumbsup:

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 07:55 PM
Not one that allows them to buy out the last three years of their committment.

First of all, you CAN buy out your committment, but that's a different issue. Second, you can opt out of AD and in most cases be non deployable.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 07:55 PM
Every one of his comrades signed the SAME contract! They ALL had an opportunity, but obviously not all of them have the skill set this young man possesses.

Enuff said :thumbsup:

Exactly....so why shouldn't he live up to the contract like the rest of them?

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 08:02 PM
My sentiments exactly. Another one for the ignore list.

Why am I not surprised that you have to resort to ignoring various posters. I hope your list isn't so full that you can't add me to it.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 09:32 PM
IF THIS KID WANTED TO PURSUE A FOOTBALL CAREER HE SHOULD OF WENT SOMEWHERE ELSE... THE KID JOINED THE ARMY TO SERVE NOT TO PLAY FOOTBALL... THIS KID IS JUST A LIL BITCH ASS WHO DOESN'T WANT TO OWN UP TO HIS COMMITMENT.... WHAT IF WAS UR KID HAD TO REPLACE HIS SPOT IN IRAQ? DOESN'T MATTER IF UR AN ATHLETE OR A JANITOR.. U MAKE A COMMITMENT TO SERCE UR COUNTRY U SERVE UR COUNTRY

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 09:47 PM
IF THIS KID WANTED TO PURSUE A FOOTBALL CAREER HE SHOULD OF WENT SOMEWHERE ELSE... THE KID JOINED THE ARMY TO SERVE NOT TO PLAY FOOTBALL... THIS KID IS JUST A LIL BITCH ASS WHO DOESN'T WANT TO OWN UP TO HIS COMMITMENT.... WHAT IF WAS UR KID HAD TO REPLACE HIS SPOT IN IRAQ? DOESN'T MATTER IF UR AN ATHLETE OR A JANITOR.. U MAKE A COMMITMENT TO SERCE UR COUNTRY U SERVE UR COUNTRY

Well, considering that the very Army he signed that committment with doesn't have a problem with it I'm not so sure you should. He's not weasling out of anything. He's taking advantage of a program that the Army put in place for guys like him. Deal with it. As a vet, I am happy for him.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 10:29 PM
And that's why we're going to lose the war in Iraq.

LOL...How do you expect for us to win the iraq war. We won the fight in every aspect. What you dont realize is that it is impossible to leave Iraq. It doesnt matter when we do. They will never get along..........Iraqs always have (since bible days) and always will fight each other.

Why are you so hard up on this guy playing football?
Many college studetns go to school and get their degrees but never become business men.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:40 PM
Why are you so hard up on this guy playing football?

I don't think you guys really get my point. If the kid wanted to play football, he should have gone to another school. West Point, Annapolis, etc were not established to be institutions that produce pro athletes. They're institutions designed to produce military leaders. Do I hold it against the kid that he used the system to his advantage, yeah a little bit.

But I really feel like this is a symptom of a greater problem in society itself. We've gotten to the point where sports is bigger than life. We care more about the glamor of being an NFL star than we do about the honor and privilege of serving your nation in the Armed Forces. I think it's a sad commentary on where we are as a society when the armed forces are reduced to using special clauses, monster trucks, and stock cars to recruit young people.

There's no much talk of patriotism, yet so little action. It's just sad.

HometownGal
04-29-2008, 10:44 PM
WHAT IF WAS UR KID HAD TO REPLACE HIS SPOT IN IRAQ?

If it was one of my children, I'd be beaming with pride whether they did a tour or duty (or two or three) in Iraq, Siberia, Bumfuk, Egypt, or wherever, or followed their heart by doing something (in this case playing NFL football) that fulfills them and makes them happy, rather than embarking on a journey (military career) that deep down they knew they didn't want to make.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
If it was one of my children, I'd be beaming with pride whether they did a tour or duty (or two or three) in Iraq, Siberia, Bumfuk, Egypt, or wherever, or followed their heart by doing something (in this case playing NFL football) that fulfills them and makes them happy, rather than embarking on a journey (military career) that deep down they knew they didn't want to make.

HTG, if he knew he didn't want to make that journey he should have never gone to, and stayed in, a military academy.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 10:47 PM
I don't think you guys really get my point. If the kid wanted to play football, he should have gone to another school. West Point, Annapolis, etc were not established to be institutions that produce pro athletes. They're institutions designed to produce military leaders. Do I hold it against the kid that he used the system to his advantage, yeah a little bit.

But I really feel like this is a symptom of a greater problem in society itself. We've gotten to the point where sports is bigger than life. We care more about the glamor of being an NFL star than we do about the honor and privilege of serving your nation in the Armed Forces. I think it's a sad commentary on where we are as a society when the armed forces are reduced to using special clauses, monster trucks, and stock cars to recruit young people.

There's no much talk of patriotism, yet so little action. It's just sad.

Have you served or are you serving the country?

What you are forgetting is what serving the country is all about.....Freedom to do what you want...........(with limitations of laws ofcourse:wink02:)

Point is, the kid turned out to be a great athlete, he is still serving his country as a "recruiter", and I dont blame him at all for taking his shot at the pros. Infact, I think we should all be happy for him............

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 10:48 PM
I really feel like this is a symptom of a greater problem in society itself. We've gotten to the point where sports is bigger than life. We care more about the glamor of being an NFL star than we do about the honor and privilege of serving your nation in the Armed Forces. I think it's a sad commentary on where we are as a society when the armed forces are reduced to using special clauses, monster trucks, and stock cars to recruit young people.

There's no much talk of patriotism, yet so little action. It's just sad.

Now that makes more sense than anything else you've said previously. I can agree with much of it. Somehow though, I'm still glad to see a talented kid take advantage of an opportunity presented to him. Had it been a case where there was no policy and he refused to serve, then I would condemn him. But In my eyes he's done nothing wrong. I'm sure he won't be the last. If it becomes an issue I'm sure the Army will repeal the policy. Simple as that.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:49 PM
Have you served or are you serving the country?

What you are forgetting is what serving the country is all about.....Freedom to do what you want...........(with limitations of laws ofcourse:wink02:)

Point is, the kid turned out to be a great athlete, he is still serving his country as a "recruiter", and I dont blame him at all for taking his shot at the pros. Infact, I think we should all be happy for him............

I'm an Air Force Staff Sergeant and I can say that we don't have the freedom to do what we want. When we raised our right hands, we gave up the freedom to do what we want in order to do what needs to be done.

Like I said before, I think this whole thing is just one sad commentary on where we are are as a nation and where we're going.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:52 PM
Now that makes more sense than anything else you've said previously. I can agree with much of it. Somehow though, I'm still glad to see a talented kid take advantage of an opportunity presented to him. Had it been a case where there was no policy and he refused to serve, then I would condemn him. But In my eyes he's done nothing wrong. I'm sure he won't be the last. If it becomes an issue I'm sure the Army will repeal the policy. Simple as that.

The opportunity would have been there two years from now. Chad Henning, Bryce Fisher, etc all did their bit for King and Country and still had nice NFL careers.

I simply don't feel like this program the Army has is sending the right message to kids. I'm all for using the system to your advantage, but this seems like an outright abuse of the system and as an NCO, I simply can't sit back and not make my feelings heard.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 10:53 PM
I'm an Air Force Staff Sergeant and I can say that we don't have the freedom to do what we want. When we raised our right hands, we gave up the freedom to do what we want in order to do what needs to be done.

Like I said before, I think this whole thing is just one sad commentary on where we are are as a nation and where we're going.

I understand your argument that "sports" are in a league of their own when if comes to favortism. However, I dont think its right to take it out on this kid. I for one will be a fan of his.....I wish him the best of luck in the NFL. And i absolutly hold nothing against him as a man, as a soldier, or as a person for trying to play in the NFL.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 10:54 PM
ok then i guess pro athetes should get special privealges then b/c they can play sports.. like i have said and recently jeremy if he WANTED TO PLAY FOOTBALL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE..

basically what u are saying is that since he is a pro athlete he should be able to do anything or get out of anything?? the bottom line is that he signed a contract to serve our country and he needs ful-fill his contract and serve.. and don't give me that bullshit about he is serving as a recruiter.. he was trained to be a soldier and he needs to act like a soldier..

tony hipchest
04-29-2008, 10:58 PM
HTG, if he knew he didn't want to make that journey he should have never gone to, and stayed in, a military academy.but you know the army would rather see him on sundays making spectacular tackles, and recruiting young americans than over in iraq. it just so happens to work out for them.

and if the presidential candidates can use wrastlin (WWE) to recruit votes, what wrong with using a hopeful nfl star (we all know he probably wont be, but he has already served his purpose) to recruit troops.

im kinda suprised you threw the nascar reference in there. i think joe nemecheck, dale jr. r. rudd, m. martin etc. have done an excellent job of promoting the armed forces. i was actually proud when terry bradshaw had navy sponsoring 1 of his rides.

they spend a hell of alot more taxpayer dollars to these guys than they did to send caleb to school, so i cant blame him.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 10:59 PM
I understand your argument that "sports" are in a league of their own when if comes to favortism. However, I dont think its right to take it out on this kid. I for one will be a fan of his.....I wish him the best of luck in the NFL. And i absolutly hold nothing against him as a man, as a soldier, or as a person for trying to play in the NFL.


This kid needs to understand that he's going to evoke a lot of strong emotions on this issue on both sides. Some folks are going to be fans and some folks won't be fans.

I'm not going to be a fan. That might sound like sour grapes, but this whole thing just doesn't jive with the way I've been taught to see the military.

NJarhead
04-29-2008, 10:59 PM
I simply don't feel like this program the Army has is sending the right message to kids. I'm all for using the system to your advantage, but this seems like an outright abuse of the system and as an NCO, I simply can't sit back and not make my feelings heard.

Yes but, the brass makes those decisions. For once it's actually a favorable one! Even the services, for yeeeeaaaars have had they're own atheletes who barely did anything else but compete (rifle champions, runners, boxers, weight lifters, etc). That will never change. Granted they're in uniform, but they too need to have someone elses Son replace them on deployment.

Let me ask you, are you bitter about your service? Mind if I ask what you do/where you've been?

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:00 PM
Ya I didnt think my "recruiter" comment would hold up much in my argument.

Im just saying that I do not look down at the guy for choosing to play football..
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for him.......The military is okay with it so what the heck.....

I just hope that all we hear about him is being a recruiter and how everyone should join the army.

In a way........I think that if a player from an academy has the talent to play in the NFl, then they should have the option of leaving the military all togehet.......based on financial security........millions in the NFL........small thousands in the military

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:00 PM
but you know the army would rather see him on sundays making spectacular tackles, and recruiting young americans than over in iraq. it just so happens to work out for them.

That's just it Tony, I think it's the wrong message. It's misleading to the highest degree.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:03 PM
Yes but, the brass makes those decisions. For once it's actually a favorable one! Even the services, for yeeeeaaaars have had they're own atheletes who barely did anything else but compete (rifle champions, runners, boxers, weight lifters, etc). That will never change. Granted they're in uniform, but they too need to have someone elses Son replace them on deployment.

Let me ask you, are you bitter about your service? Mind if I ask what you do/where you've been?

I'm very proud of my service. I'm a comm guy working with SOUTHCOM right now in the narco-terrorism game.

I've been to Al-Udeid.

But to answer the next question, I'm not a front line guy. I guess the term is REMF. I don't apologize for my career choice.

Like I said, the kid is using the system. We've all been there before. But it's a system I feel is wrong and I feel that it sends the wrong message to future soldiers.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:03 PM
oh yeah lets use this guy as a "recruiter" playing in the nfl.. i can see it now

come on kids lets play sports, whether its football, baseball, basketball or whatever at these armed services acadimes 4 free and then get out of anything u want.. look at me, i was a lil bitch that didn't want to own up to his contract and i basically pleaded 4 someone to draft me.. if i can do it u can do it

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:06 PM
if the kid had talent in the sport then y not go to some other college to play football??? there are a whole shit load of other colleges to play football at

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:06 PM
I would not recommend anyone to join the military

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:07 PM
Ya I didnt think my "recruiter" comment would hold up much in my argument.

Im just saying that I do not look down at the guy for choosing to play football..
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for him.......The military is okay with it so what the heck.....

I just hope that all we hear about him is being a recruiter and how everyone should join the army.

In a way........I think that if a player from an academy has the talent to play in the NFl, then they should have the option of leaving the military all togehet.......based on financial security........millions in the NFL........small thousands in the military

I just don't feel comfortable with the use of this kid as a recruiting poster. It presents an image of the military that is highly unrealistic.

If the kid was training to be an Olympic athlete, I'd be more comfortable with the situation. There's a long history of service members staying in while training for the Olympics. But many of them still end up doing active duty time and not all of it pleasant.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:08 PM
I would not recommend anyone to join the military

I would, as long as they understand the choice they're making.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:09 PM
I would not recommend anyone to join the military

so we shouldn't have a army to protect our citizens or our right to be free.. :banging:

good job on that quote

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:10 PM
so we shouldn't have a army to protect our citizens or our right to be free.. :banging:

good job on that quote

Keep in mind you're talking to a combat vet who lost most of his hearing in Iraq. If anyone here has earned the right to have an opinion like that, it's BBFW.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:11 PM
also if this kid had so much talent as u say then y wasn't he invited to the combine??? y was it that we had to hear about it when he said something??? he was trying to find a way out of owning up to the contract he signed

tony hipchest
04-29-2008, 11:11 PM
That's just it Tony, I think it's the wrong message. It's misleading to the highest degree.what about the GI Bill. "come fight for us and we will send you to college"? what about recruitment bonuses? "sign the dotted line, and we'll hand you the biggest wad of cash youve ever seen (even if it is only $5000 bucks)". i dont think it is nothing new.

im sure caleb though he had a better shot of going to war thean the nfl when he joined several years back. somebody like pat tillman may have influenced his decision to attend the academy in the 1st place.

which brings me to lilyoder-

THIS KID IS JUST A LIL BITCH ASS WHO DOESN'T WANT TO OWN UP TO HIS COMMITMENT

you are not allowed to call this dude a bitch ass and defend roger clemens porking 15 year old girls in the same day. .... its against forum rules.

:hatsoff: thank you.

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:12 PM
also if this kid had so much talent as u say then y wasn't he invited to the combine??? y was it that we had to hear about it when he said something??? he was trying to find a way out of owning up to the contract he signed

Chances are that West Point wouldn't allow him the time away from the Academy to attend the combine.

fansince'76
04-29-2008, 11:12 PM
Even the services, for yeeeeaaaars have had they're own atheletes who barely did anything else but compete (rifle champions, runners, boxers, weight lifters, etc). That will never change. Granted they're in uniform, but they too need to have someone elses Son replace them on deployment.

Although this kid getting out of his military commitment still sticks in my craw the wrong way, that's a valid point. Joe Louis spent a good chunk of WWII traveling around with the USO holding boxing exhibitions - he didn't get anywhere near combat. It's also a good bet that Muhammad Ali would have wound up doing the same thing in Vietnam if he'd have gone.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:13 PM
I would, as long as they understand the choice they're making.

As long as they realize that the military does not care about them as individuals. and will not provide proper medical treatment after enlistment.
I loved being in the military, would have stayed in my entire life......put i was put out with a medical discharge........the only problem is is that the military and VA do not take care of their soldiers properly..

at least is Campbell gets injured...........the NFL takes care of him

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:14 PM
and i think i have the right to argue his opion since i have had both of my grandparents serve in WW2 and that my father served in the vietnam and the iraq war... my life is all about the military..

Jeremy
04-29-2008, 11:15 PM
Although this kid getting out of his military commitment still sticks in my craw the wrong way, that's a valid point. Joe Louis spent a good chunk of WWII traveling around with the USO holding boxing exhibitions - he didn't get anywhere near combat. It's also a good bet that Muhammad Ali would have wound up doing the same thing in Vietnam if he'd have gone.

That was more of a morale deal really.

Like I said, I just really feel like this is the wrong message to send to potential recruits. It just furthers the "I'm special" attitude that's so very strong among kids today.

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:16 PM
tony plz tell me where i am defending roger boning a 15 yr old????

i said the topics looks like he is boning a 15 yr old right now.. and i am wondering y this story came up now... i haven't said shit about he did it or not.. but nice try tho

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:17 PM
I think that the NFL should allow him to leave the military all toghether and not be a recruiter.........I agree that a NFL player is not an accurate discription of a soldier and it gives the wrong image of a soldier and his (or her) duties.

Would you be against the military having a clause for its football players (who have the athletic ability) to pursure a career in the NFL............Lets face it.......When campbell joined and played football............he didnt know ( or was not guranteed) a shot at the pros

HometownGal
04-29-2008, 11:17 PM
and i think i have the right to argue his opion since i have had both of my grandparents serve in WW2 and that my father served in the vietnam and the iraq war... my life is all about the military..

Kudos to your grandparents and father for serving our country. :drink:

I have a question, though - when are you going to enlist?

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:18 PM
the nfl takes care of him B/c he is a "special" person since he is in the nfl.. another perk 4 being an athlete

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:20 PM
tony plz tell me where i am defending roger boning a 15 yr old????

i said the topics looks like he is boning a 15 yr old right now.. and i am wondering y this story came up now... i haven't said shit about he did it or not.. but nice try tho

Okay.......off subject.........but i read the other post........interesting...but dont really care about baseball..........baseball players........or other peoples dumb decision.....

GO STEELERS...

lilyoder6
04-29-2008, 11:20 PM
when the time comes... but i am going to bed.. so i'll cont this tom have a nice night

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:21 PM
when the time comes... but i am going to bed.. so i'll cont this tom have a nice night

Join the military

tony hipchest
04-29-2008, 11:24 PM
That's just it Tony, I think it's the wrong message. It's misleading to the highest degree.also, taking the 10 commandments out of the courtroom and Jesus out of the classrooms sends the wrong message but it is what it is. we kinda just deal with it.

and lily, i appreciate youre grandfathers fighting in WWII, but were they drafted? did they voluntarily join?

unfortunately, i had great grades and wanted to be a field surgeon but was rejected for the AF academy and west point. i woulda had a full blown scholorship if i woulda been playing HS football. :noidea:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-29-2008, 11:29 PM
also, taking the 10 commandments out of the courtroom and Jesus out of the classrooms sends the wrong message but it is what it is. we kinda just deal with it.

and lily, i appreciate youre grandfathers fighting in WWII, but were they drafted? did they voluntarily join?

unfortunately, i had great grades and wanted to be a field surgeon but was rejected for the AF academy and west point. i woulda had a full blown scholorship if i woulda been playing HS football. :noidea:

Ya but then we would be talking about you ditching your contract to play for the pittsburgh steelers.........

Oh wait.........If the steelers offered you a contract you would tell them that you have prior obligations to serve your country...........and turn down that one chance to play in the NFL.

tony hipchest
04-29-2008, 11:54 PM
Ya but then we would be talking about you ditching your contract to play for the pittsburgh steelers.........

Oh wait.........If the steelers offered you a contract you would tell them that you have prior obligations to serve your country...........and turn down that one chance to play in the NFL.whether they sent me to iraq or pittsburgh i would be a good little soldier and do what my higher ups felt was best.

in this case..... DAMN SKIPPY i would be a steeler on sundays and recruiting agent on tuesdays.

my dream was to be an nfl star. my goal was to be a field surgeon.

lilyoder6
04-30-2008, 01:51 PM
they were in the navy so they weren't drafted...

obvisouly ppl alrdy did that said no to nfl first and yes to war.. roger did it, rocky blier did it,

A: i doubt any nfl team would just come to u and say would u like to play 4 us??
B: i think if u had the talent u would of been in the draft


but let me gets this straight u are happy 4 him b/c he's not owning up to his contract to serve the country on the battlefield.. but yet u hate CJ 4 not owning up to his contract.. :tap: i know it's not the same but a contract is a contract.. t

NJarhead
04-30-2008, 09:49 PM
and i think i have the right to argue his opion since i have had both of my grandparents serve in WW2 and that my father served in the vietnam and the iraq war... my life is all about the military..

Kudos to your grandparents and father for serving our country. :drink:

I have a question, though - when are you going to enlist?

I agree. Kudos to your Dad and your Grandfather (member of "the Greatest Generation), but your frame of reference is limited to them, not your own, first hand, knowledge and experience. With that in mind, your credibility is limited IMO.

HometownGal
04-30-2008, 10:13 PM
i know it's not the same but a contract is a contract.. t

Thousands of contracts are broken every day - how do you think attorneys can afford those schmansy dansy homes and fancy rides? (Sorry AD and Counselor :wink02:) The kid changed his mind about his career choice and followed his heart - I really don't see what the big deal is. :banging:

NJarhead
04-30-2008, 10:51 PM
Thousands of contracts are broken every day - how do you think attorneys can afford those schmansy dansy homes and fancy rides? (Sorry AD and Counselor :wink02:) The kid changed his mind about his career choice and followed his heart - I really don't see what the big deal is. :banging:

Heck, even the U.S. Constitution has been amended what...27 times? Needs change, times change and as a result so must policy.

lilyoder6
04-30-2008, 11:18 PM
i'll use a lawyer reference here

it's like me being a lawyer and i was trying to put a murderer away.. and half way in thru the trail i stand up and say, i quit b/c i want to ride a pony.... and that just fcks up the whole trial..

u need to finish what u have started plain and simple and don't bitch out

tony hipchest
05-01-2008, 12:04 AM
i'll use a lawyer reference here

it's like me being a lawyer and i was trying to put a murderer away.. and half way in thru the trail i stand up and say, i quit b/c i want to ride a pony.... and that just fcks up the whole trial..

u need to finish what u have started plain and simple and don't bitch out

:huh:

:idea:

:yeehaw:

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 01:05 AM
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u259/Gyrfalcon33/_i_see_stupid_people-767478.jpg

Jeremy
05-01-2008, 10:09 AM
Thousands of contracts are broken every day - how do you think attorneys can afford those schmansy dansy homes and fancy rides? (Sorry AD and Counselor :wink02:) The kid changed his mind about his career choice and followed his heart - I really don't see what the big deal is. :banging:

Because if the military allowed every kid to "follow their heart" then you wouldn't have a military.

fansince'76
05-01-2008, 10:15 AM
Thousands of contracts are broken every day - how do you think attorneys can afford those schmansy dansy homes and fancy rides? (Sorry AD and Counselor :wink02:) The kid changed his mind about his career choice and followed his heart - I really don't see what the big deal is. :banging:

The problem I have with it is the $100,000+ college education he received and the bill for it being footed by U.S. taxpayers with the stipulation he owed the Army 5 years after he graduated - a commitment he no longer has to honor. I'm STILL paying my student loans off and I'm 40 frigging years old (albeit I was a non-traditional student and didn't go back to school until my late 20s, but still). Wish I could've gotten my college education for free with no strings attached like this kid.

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 10:27 AM
don't forget all the money they spent on him to train him as a soldier.. the spent shit loads of money on him..

i would also love to went to college 4 free and leave w/o any stipulation..

HometownGal
05-01-2008, 10:41 AM
Because if the military allowed every kid to "follow their heart" then you wouldn't have a military.

Last I knew, Jeremy, those who chose to enter the military did so of their own free will, so obviously they are "following their hearts".

This is an isolated incident and not the norm. I can definitely see the points being made in opposition to this incident, i.e. the kid getting the free college education, but on the other hand, take a look around at all of those who get a free college edu in this country which are paid for by us taxpayers, i.e. inmates in federal pens, welfare recipients, illegals, etc.

I still stand by my original opinion that a big tadoo is being made about nothing here.

Jeremy
05-01-2008, 10:52 AM
Last I knew, Jeremy, those who chose to enter the military did so of their own free will, so obviously they are "following their hearts".

This is an isolated incident and not the norm. I can definitely see the points being made in opposition to this incident, i.e. the kid getting the free college education, but on the other hand, take a look around at all of those who get a free college edu in this country which are paid for by us taxpayers, i.e. inmates in federal pens, welfare recipients, illegals, etc.

I still stand by my original opinion that a big tadoo is being made about nothing here.

It's what this decision says about the country as a whole. We've reached the point where we put football over the defense of this country and people actually cheer that decision.

It's a pretty sick commentary when you think about it.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 10:55 AM
It's what this decision says about the country as a whole. We've reached the point where we put football over the defense of this country and people actually cheer that decision.

It's a pretty sick commentary when you think about it.

People cheered the decison because a good guy is entering the NFL.........
And hell.........if it keeps him from going to Iraq........a war that is a joke......and a waste of american lives...... im glad

Jeremy
05-01-2008, 11:02 AM
People cheered the decison because a good guy is entering the NFL.........
And hell.........if it keeps him from going to Iraq........a war that is a joke......and a waste of american lives...... im glad

People cheered because they're dumb ass New York fake patriots.

stlrtruck
05-01-2008, 11:49 AM
It's what this decision says about the country as a whole. We've reached the point where we put football over the defense of this country and people actually cheer that decision.

It's a pretty sick commentary when you think about it.

Heck Jeremy football, no sports in general, has become the main focus over a lot of things and placed ahead of many other important issues. The fact that it made the main stage in the final rounds of the draft, is the only reason people are talking about it.

Just like the brief stink people made with David Robinson, this too will probably be short lived and may only be heard about again if he becomes some monster in the NFL. I mean really how many people later in Robinson's career even brought up what he did? Although he served 2 years, wasn't his agreement for 4?

While I believe he should have honored his committment to the military, he took advantage of something his commanders put in place. So who is to blame, him using the system in place or those who wrote the system?

Maybe you're right, kids today aren't taught to respect the military, to honor the code, and possibly even serve this country. I blame the hippies, tree huggers, all those protesting our soldiers, and the liberals (a few others too but won't list them).

Jeremy
05-01-2008, 12:06 PM
Heck Jeremy football, no sports in general, has become the main focus over a lot of things and placed ahead of many other important issues. The fact that it made the main stage in the final rounds of the draft, is the only reason people are talking about it.

Just like the brief stink people made with David Robinson, this too will probably be short lived and may only be heard about again if he becomes some monster in the NFL. I mean really how many people later in Robinson's career even brought up what he did? Although he served 2 years, wasn't his agreement for 4?

While I believe he should have honored his committment to the military, he took advantage of something his commanders put in place. So who is to blame, him using the system in place or those who wrote the system?

Maybe you're right, kids today aren't taught to respect the military, to honor the code, and possibly even serve this country. I blame the hippies, tree huggers, all those protesting our soldiers, and the liberals (a few others too but won't list them).

My main problem is with the program. I simply don't see sports as being all that important at the military academies.

But whatever, it just presnts a difficult situation for those of us who have to explain this to our subordinates why a guy who can play football a little is given preferntial treatement.

Just a tough sell in a lot of cases.

stlrtruck
05-01-2008, 12:21 PM
My main problem is with the program. I simply don't see sports as being all that important at the military academies.

But whatever, it just presnts a difficult situation for those of us who have to explain this to our subordinates why a guy who can play football a little is given preferntial treatement.

Just a tough sell in a lot of cases.

For once Jeremy I think you and I agree. Look out Armageddon!

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 03:36 PM
BBFW how can u say this war is a joke?? we are making a diff.. unless u would like to see another 9/11 happen.. we just didn't start this war 4 the hell of it.. the ppl that go over there know they are risking there lives to protect millions at home..

i agree w/ this statment by stlrruck.. very mych the truth.. and i think protesters are dumbasses
"Maybe you're right, kids today aren't taught to respect the military, to honor the code, and possibly even serve this country. I blame the hippies, tree huggers, all those protesting our soldiers, and the liberals (a few others too but won't list them)."

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Interesting read on the subject from Military.com. I don't care what anyone says, He's was smart enough to get accepted to West Point, smart enough to excell in studies, Army training and football and he's smart enough to go after a golden opportunity.

West Point Grad to Serve - on Gridiron
May 01, 2008
Knight Ridder
Caleb Campbell will graduate from the U.S. Military Academy on May 31. He will be an officer in the Army on active duty.


If not for a new policy allowing him to play pro football, he would be an air defense artilleryman, a platoon leader in charge of about 32 soldiers, likely headed to Iraq or Kuwait.

Instead, he'll be suiting up to play for the Detroit Lions.

But Campbell isn't coming to Detroit to get out of combat. And even though coach Rod Marinelli served in the Army and president Matt Millen's son Marcus was Campbell's teammate at West Point, the Lions didn't draft him in the seventh round (218th overall) Sunday to take a flier on a feel-good story.

Campbell considers this a unique opportunity and another way to serve his country. The Lions think he can play strong-side linebacker or safety. And if he isn't good enough, the Lions won't be afraid to cut him. Campbell will be proud to wear either uniform.

"I find it really as a win-win situation," Campbell said Tuesday in a national media conference call. "I get to pursue a career because of this new policy the Army has implemented, doing something that I love, and that's playing football.

"But if football doesn't work out, I get to do what I came to the academy for in the first place. I get to be an officer, and that's something that I love as well."

Campbell grew up in Perrytown, Texas. He had a scholarship offer from Tulsa. He could have played at some smaller schools, too. But he chose to go to West Point and make a five-year commitment to the Army, with the United States fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Football was for fun. At the time, the Army had no policy allowing athletes to pursue pro careers.

"When I came to West Point, I wasn't saying, 'God, I hope they make a new policy so I don't have to go to Iraq,' " Campbell said. "I knew what I was getting myself into."

But Campbell played well, and his sophomore year, he spoke to then-coach Bobby Ross, the former Lions coach who sometimes talked about a pretty good player he once had named Barry Sanders.

Ross told Campbell if he kept it up, he could have a shot at the NFL. The Army had instituted a new policy allowing an athlete to sign a pro contract. Campbell decided if he had the opportunity, he would take it.

The opportunity came Sunday. Campbell was at Radio City Music Hall in New York, in uniform, doing interviews on ESPN and NFL Network. The Lions made Campbell the first Army player drafted since 1997, when Green Bay took quarterback Ronnie McAda with the final pick (240th overall).

Campbell said he is motivated to make the team by the mixed reaction he has received. Some people have been supportive; others have wondered why Campbell should be allowed to play football. Campbell said a lot of his fellow cadets have come up to him with questions.

"I think they just initially were confused," Campbell said. "They didn't understand the aspect of this whole situation."

The idea is to draw attention to the Army and help recruiting. Campbell will serve as a recruiter in Detroit when the Lions are off. If he lasts two years in the NFL, he can buy out the remaining three years of his commitment for six years of reserve duty.

Campbell isn't the first to go pro under the policy. He follows two baseball players and a hockey player. Army fullback Mike Viti also signed with Buffalo as a free agent.

"I think a lot of people have a misnomer if you're not getting bullets flung by your head, you're not serving your nation in a time of war," Viti said. "Combat arms is what I decided to do, but it doesn't mean that my role in service is going to be any less. I think when you start to split hairs on it, you start to demean some of the other parts of the United States Army."

Millen said the Lions would have drafted Campbell if he weren't from West Point. Marinelli wants tough guys who love football and will do anything to play.

Campbell must be tough and love football to have played at West Point, with his schedule packed from reveille to lights-out. The discipline he has learned should have him well-prepared for rookie minicamp Friday through Sunday.

"There's so many times here when you don't think you can go on, that you think you've just got to call it quits," Campbell said. "But you keep going and you just never look back, knowing that, hey, tomorrow's a whole new day.

"And I think that's really going to be the attitude that you have going into rookie camp. I think it's going to be tough. I think there's going to be some times that you want to quit, you don't think you're going to make it. But you just have to keep your head up, and you've got to continue and drive on."

Millen said Campbell will receive no favoritism, nor will he need it.

"He'll get the same opportunity as every other guy," Millen said. "He's been trained for four years, and I know the type of training he's gone through. He's prepared for if he won't make our football team. In fact, he's more prepared if he doesn't make our team, probably, than if he does make our team."

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 04:00 PM
People cheered because they're dumb ass New York fake patriots.

That is the biggest crock of sh*t you've spewed to date, and there is no shortage of spewed crocks of sh*t to chose from.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 05:13 PM
BBFW how can u say this war is a joke?? we are making a diff.. unless u would like to see another 9/11 happen.. we just didn't start this war 4 the hell of it.. the ppl that go over there know they are risking there lives to protect millions at home..

i agree w/ this statment by stlrruck.. very mych the truth.. and i think protesters are dumbasses
"Maybe you're right, kids today aren't taught to respect the military, to honor the code, and possibly even serve this country. I blame the hippies, tree huggers, all those protesting our soldiers, and the liberals (a few others too but won't list them)."

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq was never a threat to us......As far as war goes.
There was no doubt that we would defeat the Iraqi army.......However, how do you plan on our withdrawl.

There are more terrorist in Iraq right now today then there was before 9/11.

As far as the iraqi people.......THEY WILL NEVER STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER.

The day we leave is the day the middle east goes crazy.......The question is how long do we have to stay there.....

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 05:42 PM
The question is how long do we have to stay there.....

And that's the scary part. I'm not against the mission (especially in Afghanastan) but it's all or nothing IMO. Too dangerous to only do half the job and our troops will have died in vein if we pull out before it's done. I hate that we have to deploy our troops beyond our own borders, but that may never change.

This is too huge a discussion to go much further into it.

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 06:51 PM
i forgot that iraq had terrorism in that country and camps there.. i forgot that al qada was hiding there.. i forgot that there were nuke scientists there.. u are right there is no problem there...

abd honestly if it wasn't 4 this kid basically begging to be drafted so he didn't have to serve.. i never heard of this kid b4 he said about the life and death situation.. and then he goes to radio city to beg some more in uniform?? after this he doesn't deserve to be in the service.. i just think the lions drafted him from pity..

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 06:55 PM
i forgot that iraq had terrorism in that country and camps there.. i forgot that al qada was hiding there.. i forgot that there were nuke scientists there.. u are right there is no problem there...

abd honestly if it wasn't 4 this kid basically begging to be drafted so he didn't have to serve.. i never heard of this kid b4 he said about the life and death situation.. and then he goes to radio city to beg some more in uniform?? after this he doesn't deserve to be in the service.. i just think the lions drafted him from pity..

Dude, I have an idea: How about you READ THE FRICKIN STORY before you post your BS. He never begged for a thing. It's apparent that you are too lazy to gather all of your facts before forming your own warped opinion and then subjecting the rest of us to it.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 07:41 PM
i forgot that iraq had terrorism in that country and camps there.. i forgot that al qada was hiding there.. i forgot that there were nuke scientists there.. u are right there is no problem there...

abd honestly if it wasn't 4 this kid basically begging to be drafted so he didn't have to serve.. i never heard of this kid b4 he said about the life and death situation.. and then he goes to radio city to beg some more in uniform?? after this he doesn't deserve to be in the service.. i just think the lions drafted him from pity..

Iraq did not have terrorist and guessing that you are a Bush supporter........Even he has agreed that he was wrong...........There were no weapons of mass destruction.
Maybe you didnt know?:thumbsup:

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 08:10 PM
Iraq did not have terrorist and guessing that you are a Bush supporter........Even he has agreed that he was wrong...........There were no weapons of mass destruction.
Maybe you didnt know?:thumbsup:

Is that called ignorance? :noidea:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 08:15 PM
Is that called ignorance? :noidea:

lol........im not sure

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 09:56 PM
i guess u can't read.. i said he basically begged.. he came on and "told" his story 2 times and they kept repeating it and repeating it.. maybe u need to get some reading classes.... wait.. i have a ? 4 u... are u smarter than a 5th grader??

and about the weps of mass destruction.. they were moved. B: they had the nuke scientists working(i doubt they were working on toy rockets)... and i'm not rly into the politics yet.. but i am damn sure a supporter 4 keeping our country safe..

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 09:58 PM
if u don;t know the diff of me saying he did beg and him basically begging by telling his stroy twice and having them repeat it over and over again.. maybe u do need to go back to school

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 10:01 PM
i guess u can't read.. i said he basically begged.. he came on and "told" his story 2 times and they kept repeating it and repeating it.. maybe u need to get some reading classes.... wait.. i have a ? 4 u... are u smarter than a 5th grader??

and about the weps of mass destruction.. they were moved. B: they had the nuke scientists working(i doubt they were working on toy rockets)... and i'm not rly into the politics yet.. but i am damn sure a supporter 4 keeping our country safe..

:rofl: That's a laugher coming from you. Read your posts(if you can)! :laughing: Tell you what, order Hooked-on-Phonics for yourself.., my treat.

BTW - I know what you said (notice how I made it BOLD there Mr. Reading Comprehension). It was still inaccurate.

*Geez, it's like trying to clap with one hand.* :doh:

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 10:06 PM
how was it inaccurate??? i heard that stupid ass story about being life or death at least 7 times when it aired on e60 thru the draft on sun.. so nice try tho dumbass

HometownGal
05-01-2008, 10:07 PM
i guess u can't read.. i said he basically begged.. he came on and "told" his story 2 times and they kept repeating it and repeating it.. maybe u need to get some reading classes.... wait.. i have a ? 4 u... are u smarter than a 5th grader??

and about the weps of mass destruction.. they were moved. B: they had the nuke scientists working(i doubt they were working on toy rockets)... and i'm not rly into the politics yet.. but i am damn sure a supporter 4 keeping our country safe..

Hey kid - when you write a post like that, you are asking to be hammered. :mallet:

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 10:11 PM
how was it inaccurate??? i heard that stupid ass story about being life or death at least 7 times when it aired on e60 thru the draft on sun.. so nice try tho dumbass

You actually "heard" an accusation of him that he was "basically begging" to get out of his military obligation? Then find it in writing and share it with the rest of us. I've read a couple of stories, from a couple of sources and NONE of them support your BS claim. So let's see whatcha got Brain Child. Find an article by a credible source to support your claim, you little balloon knot.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 10:25 PM
Weapons were not moved..........They never existed..........Name the nuclear scientist that they found over there......Im curious as to where they were

NJarhead
05-01-2008, 10:31 PM
Weapons were not moved..........They never existed..........Name the nuclear scientist that they found over there......Im curious as to where they were

Is that what he was saying? .....how could you tell? :huh:

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 10:59 PM
the story was on E60.. then was one 1st and take then it was on sportscenter couple of times and then once again on draft day... now if repeating the same thing over and over again 4 bout 5 days straight dares to say that someone is trying very very hard to make it happen

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 11:02 PM
BBFW are u rly that stupid??? i hope not...

they found the scientists.. they found that there families were threaten if not researching and makeing nukes... then plz explain to me how the govn has photos of missles being transported by vehicle over there in iraq??

lilyoder6
05-01-2008, 11:03 PM
wow i'm gonna be hammered ooo.. i soooo scared by a bunch of ppl on a forum :blah: :blah: :blah:

HometownGal
05-01-2008, 11:26 PM
wow i'm gonna be hammered ooo.. i soooo scared by a bunch of ppl on a forum :blah: :blah: :blah:

I didn't say, nor did I imply, that you should be scared, lilyoder. I was just trying to give you a little hint that if you are going to call others "stupid", "dumbass" and telling them that they should "go back to school" . . . .

http://www.apostropher.com/blog/img/pot-kettle.jpg

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 11:58 PM
BBFW are u rly that stupid??? i hope not...

they found the scientists.. they found that there families were threaten if not researching and makeing nukes... then plz explain to me how the govn has photos of missles being transported by vehicle over there in iraq??

And it has come out in a report that the pictures you saw on tv were not actualy nuclear missles...........There has been a report on this already...........There were no weapons of mass destruction!!! plain and simple..........
We are in a "Bush" war.........and there is no reason for it...........Iraq was of no threat to us............Clinton did a great job sending in inspections........Problem is that Bush was ..........axis of evil........will not negotiate with anyone..........

Like it or not..........were in a war that has no meaning.........and there is no peaceful way out....

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 11:59 PM
wow i'm gonna be hammered ooo.. i soooo scared by a bunch of ppl on a forum :blah: :blah: :blah:

:mallet::mallet:no more stupid talk:mallet::mallet:

fansince'76
05-02-2008, 06:40 AM
Clinton did a great job sending in inspections........

And all this time I thought the weapons inspectors in Iraq were there under the auspices of the U.N., not the U.S., but yeah, Clinton did a great job of sending them in there and making sure Saddam was clean. Never mind Saddam doing everything he could to interfere with the inspectors' work every step of the way, leading the U.N. to order its inspectors to leave Iraq entirely in 1998 (they stayed out until 2002), but whatever.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-02-2008, 07:14 AM
And all this time I thought the weapons inspectors in Iraq were there under the auspices of the U.N., not the U.S., but yeah, Clinton did a great job of sending them in there and making sure Saddam was clean. Never mind Saddam doing everything he could to interfere with the inspectors' work every step of the way, leading the U.N. to order its inspectors to leave Iraq entirely in 1998 (they stayed out until 2002), but whatever.

Yes but Clinton negotiated and it worked out...........Bush was too hard headed and would not negotiate

fansince'76
05-02-2008, 07:20 AM
Yes but Clinton negotiated and it worked out...........Bush was too hard headed and would not negotiate

How did it work out? No U.N. inspections for four years? Negotiation? You mean like the following?

On December 16, 1998, United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) military forces launched cruise missile attacks against military targets in Iraq. These strikes were ordered by the President of the United States and were undertaken in response to Iraq's continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) inspectors. The strikes were designed to deliver a serous blow to Saddam Hussein's capability to manufacture, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction and his ability to threaten or otherwise intimidate his neighbors.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/desert_fox.htm

For the record, I was against the invasion of Iraq in 2003 (and still am). My contention is Clinton did NOTHING to resolve the issue either.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-02-2008, 07:27 AM
How did it work out? No U.N. inspections for four years? Negotiation? You mean like the following?



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/desert_fox.htm

For the record, I was against the invasion of Iraq in 2003 (and still am). My contention is Clinton did NOTHING to resolve the issue either.

Yes. Clinton sent a few missles over....Not troups...

Seriousy how does this sound:
The US military death toll has reached a seven-month high as America's war in Iraq enters a new phase – with its troops primarily engaged in fighting insurgents from the Shia rather than the Sunni community.


The killing of three US soldiers in Baghdad raised the number killed in April to 47, reversing a trend towards lower American casualties. Half of the losses were in Baghdad, where the US is fighting the Mehdi Army militia loyal to the Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Shia losses have been heavy. An Iraqi government spokesman for the civilian side of Baghdad security operations said 925 people had been killed and 2,605 wounded in Sadr City since the Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, began his offensive against the Sadrist movement on 25 April.

and for what purpose?

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-02-2008, 07:33 AM
Since war began......3,315 american soldiers have died in combat....and the total number of soldiers that have died (including acidents and what not. 4,065)

Im just asking for what reason?

fansince'76
05-02-2008, 07:54 AM
Im just asking for what reason?

Not saying this is "correct" or "right," I'm simply addressing the "why" here. Once again, for the record, I was against the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and still am. I am against taking up arms against any other country unless it attacks the U.S. first (see Pearl Harbor), or unless it represents a clear and imminent threat. Iraq, IMO, didn't fit either criteria.

THE SECURITY COUNCIL, 27 JANUARY 2003:

AN UPDATE ON INSPECTION

Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC, Dr. Hans Blix

I begin by recalling that inspections as a part of a disarmament process in Iraq started in 1991, immediately after the Gulf War. They went on for eight years until December 1998, when inspectors were withdrawn. Thereafter, for nearly four years there were no inspections. They were resumed only at the end of November last year....

Resolution 687 (1991), like the subsequent resolutions I shall refer to, required cooperation by Iraq but such was often withheld or given grudgingly. Unlike South Africa, which decided on its own to eliminate its nuclear weapons and welcomed inspection as a means of creating confidence in its disarmament, Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance – not even today – of the disarmament, which was demanded of it and which it needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in peace.

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm

tony hipchest
05-02-2008, 12:53 PM
i think calebs recruiting campaign will pay off.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/army_1.jpg

as for the $100,000 for his education...

if the govt. thought they were losing or wasting money on the deal, theres no way they would let him do it.

Rhee Rhee
05-03-2008, 05:01 AM
WOW

this thread has gotten just a tad off topic.. LOL

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-03-2008, 06:26 AM
.....for what purpose?

Their infrastructure is recovering at a phenomenal rate...

A "back to school" campaign delivered kits with book bags, notebooks, pens and pencils that helped 120,000 students in Baghdad return to their classrooms. 1.2 million kits for secondary school students and 4,000 kits for their schools including desks, chairs, blackboards, and bookshelves are arriving in Iraq.

Malnutrition contributed to high mortality rates in Iraq during Saddam's rule. The World Food Program reported that nearly 3.7 million metric tons of food, or more than the six months supply required to keep the distribution system operating, have been dispatched to Iraq.

To date, 22.3 million doses of measles, tuberculosis, hepatitis B, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, and polio vaccines have been provided, enough to vaccinate 4.2 million children.

All universities are reopened.

A $53 million program to rehabilitate more than 100 schools and clinics is underway. More than 600 schools will be in "like new" condition in time for the beginning of classes.

Ten delivery rooms in hospitals and primary healthcare centers in Basra have been rehabilitated and stocked with essential drugs and medical supplies.

The juvenile institution for children that was the subject of reports of abuse and appalling conditions under Saddam Hussein has been replaced by a project run by UNICEF and NGOs. Seven orphanages have undergone major building renovations and training for staff.

-----------------------------------------------

****Below is an article by DEMOCRATIC Sen. Joseph Lieberman.****
Everyone should take the rime to read in instead of basing opinions on CNN "Election Year" politically motivated soundbytes.

Our Troops Must Stay
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007611