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View Full Version : we need Oliver Ross and Keydrick Vincent


tony hipchest
04-28-2008, 11:57 AM
how did these 2 scrubs come in as backups and anchor a 15-1 line with a rookie qb a year after the line was a mess and we went 6-10? how does starks become a starter for a superbowl run?

weapons.

ok, we dont really need these guys cause we already have them. i cant believe grimm, colbert, cowher totally missed the mark with starks, essex, kemoeatu, colon, etc. just like ross and vincent were proven to be serviceable in our system ( and busts elsewhere)

as a rookie, ben had jerome and duce, plus hines, el, and plaxico. no miller or holmes. in our superbowl year there was willie, jerome, hines, and el plus miller added to offset the loss of plex.

willie has proven to be an eveydown bellcow back. the past 3 sb winners have proven a 2 back system (with both capable of starting) is the wave of the future.

weve always been known to have an above average offensive line. of course having the best guard in the game helps. but i think weve had alot of offensive weapons that helped our line look even better than what it may have actually been.

its hard to discount kordells atheletisizm, willies speed, jeromes power, wards blocking, or plaxicos height, and how all those things helped the offensive line look great.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-28-2008, 12:06 PM
And now we have offensive weapons, even better than when we won the Super Bowl.

We have a Willie Parker-Rashard Mendenhall combo at RB.

Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes now paired with Limas Sweed who has the height Ben missed from Plaxico.

And we have a pass-catching TE in Miller for Ben to pass to also.

Mosca
04-28-2008, 12:18 PM
EXACTLY what I meant here. (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=24760) When your skill guys are putting pressure EVERYWHERE, the line looks a hell of a lot better all of a sudden.

And the defense gets to capitalize on a lot more risk, because opposing offenses will be starting in the hole.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-28-2008, 12:26 PM
Vincent was a good guard and Ross an over rated pass blocker, but if you remember that season all anybody could talk about was how good Ben was at escaping pressure.

Ben did a better job of getting outside and making plays. Teams now know to rush him from the outside in and not let him escape the pocket.

Having weapons isnt as important as other teams not having game film on an athletic, mobile, rookie QB with a strong arm.

Ben NEEDS protection and I just hope Starks or Colon can give him some on the right side....I know Hartwig will be better than Mahan at C.

Hines0wnz
04-28-2008, 02:26 PM
Vincent was a good guard and Ross an over rated pass blocker, but if you remember that season all anybody could talk about was how good Ben was at escaping pressure.

Ben did a better job of getting outside and making plays. Teams now know to rush him from the outside in and not let him escape the pocket.

Having weapons isnt as important as other teams not having game film on an athletic, mobile, rookie QB with a strong arm.

Ben NEEDS protection and I just hope Starks or Colon can give him some on the right side....I know Hartwig will be better than Mahan at C.

I agree with you. The number of sacks is no fluke since his rookie season.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-28-2008, 02:47 PM
Yeah. If you have stood on a 5-man O-line knowing the 6 man blitz is coming and think of the 2 results.

1. you blocked the right guys to make the one free blitzer take the longest route to the QB , giving the QB time to get the pass off without being sacked.

2. you picked up the wrong guy that the O lineman thought you were gonna pickup and you just gave the blitzer a free run to the QB that he either got sacked, or had to scramble out of the pocket to get the pass off.

I have done both and can tell you that :
in option 1, the QB usually says "nice block" "good pass pro, guys"
in option 2, the QB usually says "WTF!" or "come on....gimme some time guys!"

He can have all the weapons in the world, but it does him no good when running for his life.

Rhee Rhee
04-28-2008, 03:07 PM
i think we have always been decent at run blocking and that has led us to great seasons a la 15-1 (2004) and 13-3 (2001) and played a role in 2005 as a smokescreen during the playoffs and the regular season...

with mendenhall and parker i honestly hope it will be 60-40 in running/passing ratio during the regular season with each back gettiing 200+ carries and in the playoffs ben earns his new money and takes over games with santonio, heath, ward and sweed and leads us to a sixth superbowl...

Black@Gold Forever32
04-28-2008, 04:50 PM
how did these 2 scrubs come in as backups and anchor a 15-1 line with a rookie qb a year after the line was a mess and we went 6-10? how does starks become a starter for a superbowl run?

weapons.

ok, we dont really need these guys cause we already have them. i cant believe grimm, colbert, cowher totally missed the mark with starks, essex, kemoeatu, colon, etc. just like ross and vincent were proven to be serviceable in our system ( and busts elsewhere)

as a rookie, ben had jerome and duce, plus hines, el, and plaxico. no miller or holmes. in our superbowl year there was willie, jerome, hines, and el plus miller added to offset the loss of plex.

willie has proven to be an eveydown bellcow back. the past 3 sb winners have proven a 2 back system (with both capable of starting) is the wave of the future.

weve always been known to have an above average offensive line. of course having the best guard in the game helps. but i think weve had alot of offensive weapons that helped our line look even better than what it may have actually been.

its hard to discount kordells atheletisizm, willies speed, jeromes power, wards blocking, or plaxicos height, and how all those things helped the offensive line look great.

Tony, I agree......I think Sweed alone would have helped but you also throw in Mendenhall and its going to be even better......Its hard to count on rookies to make a quick impact...But rookie RBs have proven to have sudden impacts....Plus Mendenhall doesn't have to be the man...He will get his carries but Parker will get the majority of the carries.....

Rookie WRs usually don't have impacts their rookie year....But again Limas Sweed doesn't have to be the man....Ward, Holmes and Miller all are still the first three options in the passing game...Plus Washington will get his share....But I expect Big Ben and Sweed to get in sync with one another real quick....since Sweed is a tall WR......I think that will give Ben a comfort level he hasn't had since Plax left.....Ben knows Sweed is going to be out there with our multiple WR sets that when he pressured to throw it up there and let Sweed go get it.......

Steel_Bus_24
04-28-2008, 05:17 PM
Yeah this has always baffled me....about the drop off in the power of our line when those guys left because that 04 team just ran it right down the other teams throat no matter what.

I loved the Wash..2nd Ravens..and Jags game that year... our line really played physical in those games...

We haven't pushed people around like forever...there has been flashes but not against strong D-lines...i.e...(Jags Ravens)

Is there any hope to get that back??

WizDom-N.KnowLedge
04-29-2008, 12:08 AM
From our SB year we have 3/5 of the starters from that year. As good as Faneca and Hartings was, our other three players are no slouches. Smith should be back healthy Starks may have a fire lit under him due to him losing his job to Colon and Simmons returns at RG. Hartwig should be an improvement over Mahan and Kemoeatu seems ready to assume as starting position. I personally believe that our line is not as bad as some make it out to be.

revefsreleets
04-29-2008, 08:36 AM
Bear in mind that Arians offense is predicated upon confusing DB's downfield via complex crossing routes and the like, plays which take time to develop. An OC cannot simply tear up his playbook mid-season and start over. I believe the offense will have a slightly different look this year with more West Coast elements, ala 3 and 5 step drops which will dramatically change the dynamic of the whole offense, not to mention relieve pressure on the line. Add in playmakers and some line stability, and we should be in much better shape this year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-29-2008, 09:03 AM
From our SB year we have 3/5 of the starters from that year. As good as Faneca and Hartings was, our other three players are no slouches. Smith should be back healthy Starks may have a fire lit under him due to him losing his job to Colon and Simmons returns at RG. Hartwig should be an improvement over Mahan and Kemoeatu seems ready to assume as starting position. I personally believe that our line is not as bad as some make it out to be.

I agree, the line is good for this season. I just wish that we got a better OT in the draft this year and next year we could focus on DE or OC, but the good ones all went early.

The line will be fine and adding a power back like Mendenhall will help the run game big time. Moore too runs low and finishes better than Parker, but neither has his home run ability.