PDA

View Full Version : Tall Tree, Short Rope?


Elvis
04-30-2008, 06:33 AM
With all the crimes of today and things only seeming to get worst.
Does anyone think that the Laws should be changed to the way they used to do it back in the day of a tall tree, short rope?
If you are convicted of murder I think that is what should happen. Not just for punishment, but to save us as tax payers of having to keep these slime bags up and fed. I know that there wouldnt be Bengals Football Team, but they are wanting a new franchise in L.A. anyway.
What ya think?

stlrtruck
04-30-2008, 08:35 AM
The sarcasm aside of the bungles, I do believe that utilizing some of the "Old School" laws would do one of two things:

1) deter future criminal acts
2) eliminate society of the scum, alleviating the burden on society of them being in jail

Either way it's win-win.

Mosca
04-30-2008, 10:26 AM
[SIZE=2]Does anyone think that the Laws should be changed to the way they used to do it back in the day of a tall tree, short rope? If you are convicted of murder I think that is what should happen. Not just for punishment, but to save us as tax payers of having to keep these slime bags up and fed. What ya think?

And you call yourself a Christian?

Read the news. How many people have had their CONVICTIONS (your word) for murder overturned within the last 10 years by modern forensics and DNA testing?

Our court system is the best we can do, but it isn't perfect. We try, but we get it wrong sometimes.

I tell you what. I'll accept your proposal. But YOU have to be the one doing the hanging. YOU have to choose the tree, YOU throw the rope over it, and YOU look the accused in the eye as you tighten the knot and drop the trapdoor. And then YOU have to stand before your god and explain your actions on your judgement day.

vasteeler
04-30-2008, 11:59 AM
yeah im with ya if there is no doubt what so ever then yes hang em

BaddBoi70
04-30-2008, 01:55 PM
Utilizing today's DNA technology should significantly reduce the "errors" of days gone by! I agree, if you are found guilty of murder, especially a serial murderer, then let's not waste time and money - an Eye for an Eye!

Borski
04-30-2008, 04:24 PM
Only if there is 100% proof of the crime, even 1 person the is innocent and accidentally executed due to bad evidence is too many.

stlrtruck
05-01-2008, 08:20 AM
Our court system is the best we can do, but it isn't perfect. We try, but we get it wrong sometimes.


I undertand that it's not perfect but what bothers me about the current system is that scumbag lawyers utilize weak loopholes in the system to multiple offenders off the cuff, even though there is plenty of evidence to convict the sob's.

Claiming that convicts have some sort of rights. Sorry but your rights were taken away when you took away the rights of an innocent victim.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Mosca
05-01-2008, 09:01 AM
I undertand that it's not perfect but what bothers me about the current system is that scumbag lawyers utilize weak loopholes in the system to multiple offenders off the cuff, even though there is plenty of evidence to convict the sob's.

Claiming that convicts have some sort of rights. Sorry but your rights were taken away when you took away the rights of an innocent victim.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yeah, I didn't expect a free pass. I wish there was a better way, too.

How about revamping our drug laws so that we concentrate on keeping the REAL bad guys out of society? I'm strongly anti-drug, but putting people in jail isn't working.

stlrtruck
05-01-2008, 09:27 AM
How about revamping our drug laws so that we concentrate on keeping the REAL bad guys out of society? I'm strongly anti-drug, but putting people in jail isn't working.

I'm all for it too. However, the problem also stems from failure to enforce current laws on the books, especially with all the loopholes in the system.

I think lawmakers need to go back, fix the loopholes, revamp the letter of the law to have more stringent consequences and then give the authorities the power to enforce them.

Another thing we need to do is stop giving out free passes to athletes, artists, and foreign diplomats (I really hate diplomatic immunity). If you break a law too bad - you get what the average joe gets.

Counselor
05-01-2008, 11:21 AM
I undertand that it's not perfect but what bothers me about the current system is that scumbag lawyers utilize weak loopholes in the system to multiple offenders off the cuff, even though there is plenty of evidence to convict the sob's.

Claiming that convicts have some sort of rights. Sorry but your rights were taken away when you took away the rights of an innocent victim.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Generalizing a bit aren't we? Actually most proesecutors have conviction rates that are in the mid to high 90%'s There are very few criminals that get OJ's lawyers ---they don't "get off" easily.

The "weak loopholes" you are talking about is probably most often the fourth amendment to the Constitution which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. That was put in place by the founding fathers to protect our personal liberties---and prevent the government and police from harassing innocent people. No the system isn't perfect, but lets think a bit before we give all of our freedoms back. Because believe it or not---that fourth amendment might be important to you someday.
I guarantee good citizens of a lot of countries in the world would love to have it.

stlrtruck
05-01-2008, 11:38 AM
Generalizing a bit aren't we? Actually most proesecutors have conviction rates that are in the mid to high 90%'s There are very few criminals that get OJ's lawyers ---they don't "get off" easily.

The "weak loopholes" you are talking about is probably most often the fourth amendment to the Constitution which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. That was put in place by the founding fathers to protect our personal liberties---and prevent the government and police from harassing innocent people. No the system isn't perfect, but lets think a bit before we give all of our freedoms back. Because believe it or not---that fourth amendment might be important to you someday.
I guarantee good citizens of a lot of countries in the world would love to have it.

Yes, it was generalized. I have not the time to put out a 500 page product on my true feelings and desires for our current system.

I'm not saying we should give back our freedoms but we should also bring the standard for our society to where it once was. It seems that has been a transition to protect the guilty than defend the innocence.

As for the Fourth, I enjoy it but I also don't give cops a reason to come search my house, car, or person. However, if a cop pulled me over and he were to see an open 6 pack, I would expect him to not only give me a roadside test but to also search my vehicle. Sometimes people do stupid things that require a greater search and it shouldn't take an act of congress for officers to do their job.

Counselor
05-01-2008, 01:12 PM
Yes, it was generalized. I have not the time to put out a 500 page product on my true feelings and desires for our current system.


that's fine neither do I, I just tend to fight back when I see "scumbag lawyer" comments

I'm not saying we should give back our freedoms but we should also bring the standard for our society to where it once was. It seems that has been a transition to protect the guilty than defend the innocence.


I disagree with your perception. Society is much better at solving crimes and catching/punishing guilty criminals than ever before---through technology and science. The US has always been a "innocent until proven guilty system." That hasn't changed. If you want vigilante "wild west" justice---that wasn't the true US system, even back then.


As for the Fourth, I enjoy it but I also don't give cops a reason to come search my house, car, or person.

But don't you see, that without the 4th amendment and a few others as well as our justice system, we could easily become a country where the police come and people disappear for no good reason. In places like that you don't NEED to give the police an excuse. So you take a bit of the bad with the good. You're taking the 4th amendment for granted.



However, if a cop pulled me over and he were to see an open 6 pack, I would expect him to not only give me a roadside test but to also search my vehicle. Sometimes people do stupid things that require a greater search and it shouldn't take an act of congress for officers to do their job.

OK, and often they can search cars like that----It depends on "reasonable suspicion" which all cops are well aware of.

But what if you get pulled over for a broken tail light? can they search the car then? What if you get a speeding ticket? search?

stlrtruck
05-01-2008, 02:22 PM
I disagree with your perception. Society is much better at solving crimes and catching/punishing guilty criminals than ever before---through technology and science. The US has always been a "innocent until proven guilty system." That hasn't changed. If you want vigilante "wild west" justice---that wasn't the true US system, even back then.

I'm not looking for vigilante "wild west" justice and while technology has developed the exceptional abilities to solve crimes and catch criminals, I still believe that the standard has been lowered as far as the process. Meaning, while technological advances have helped CSI groups and modern advances in closed circuit security have aided in capturing criminals, it sees that instead of making people pay for their crimes they get a slap on the wrist and off they go - how many slaps does it take?
For example, the story about the thief who fell through a roof and sued the homeowner and won? What?

OK, and often they can search cars like that----It depends on "reasonable suspicion" which all cops are well aware of.
But what if you get pulled over for a broken tail light? can they search the car then? What if you get a speeding ticket? search?

If a cop pulls me over for speeding, I have nothing to hide and he can search my vehicle if he finds in necessary during that time period. As I previously stated, I don't give the cops a reason to search my car, house, or person. When I'm pulled over, I put the truck in first gear, shut it off, and put my hands on the steering wheel until the officer gets to my window. Then I follow his instructions.

I don't believe I'm taking the 4th for granted but instead I believe that along with that individuals have the responsibility to meet a specific standard in regards to obeying the laws the country in which they live have defined. There are plenty of people who choose not to live by that standard and then choose to fall back on the 4th as a means to excuse their behavior or the fact that the cop shouldn't have searched their pot laden vehicle only because they were speeding (although he could smell it in the car).

Counselor
05-01-2008, 04:27 PM
I still believe that the standard has been lowered as far as the process. Meaning, while technological advances have helped CSI groups and modern advances in closed circuit security have aided in capturing criminals, it sees that instead of making people pay for their crimes they get a slap on the wrist and off they go - how many slaps does it take?

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I'll agree that In some cases perhaps sentences should be longer, but the overcrowding in the prisons is a problem. And I don't know what you consider a slap on the wrist---so its hard for me to argue this point with any real force.

For example, the story about the thief who fell through a roof and sued the homeowner and won? What?

Thats a tort reform issue not a crime/punishment issue. Besides, it is my understand that that is an urban legend---I've only heard that story in e-mails. If you can show me proof that actually occured I'd love to see it.

I don't believe I'm taking the 4th for granted but instead I believe that along with that individuals have the responsibility to meet a specific standard in regards to obeying the laws the country in which they live have defined. There are plenty of people who choose not to live by that standard and then choose to fall back on the 4th as a means to excuse their behavior or the fact that the cop shouldn't have searched their pot laden vehicle only because they were speeding (although he could smell it in the car).

Of course we have a standard of obeying the law, but the cops have to obey the law as well---they are not above the law. Thats what makes this country so great.
I don't think as many people are getting "off" via the 4th amendment as you seem to think. But even if there are a lot, my point stands------Our constitution and the bill of rights was set up to protect personal liberty from abuse by the government. Today, most law abiding citizens like ourselves feel that we have nothing to hide, and the police can search us all they want. But what if we didn't have the most benevolent government? What if the wrong people got into power? What if crazy laws were passed?

The system was set up to balance the police power against personal liberty and the rights of the majority against the liberty of one. It provides a framework of rules that each side has to live by. The government/police have rules they follow to protect the majority of society and we individually have rules we need to follow to keep our freedom. In a perfect world, everyone would follow the rules and/or all criminals would be caught and punished properly. The fact is, the few criminals that get off on technicalities (and I suggest it's a VERY few) are the price we pay to keep those in power honest and living by their rules.

If we didn't have these protections, if the 4th amendment didn't exist, if the cops didn't have to live by these rules---can't you see that there would be great opportunity for people who crave power to not just capture true criminals, but to make innocent law abiding people like yourself like into criminals---for no good reason?

Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well. I realize you can't imagine why anyone would not concent to a search of their property or person if they weren't a criminal----and that's a testament to how well our nation has done with its system, we all think the government and the police are always good---but historically that hasn't always been the case. but if we look back at our founding----or other countries current situations, where the police and government had/have all the power, and no rules to live by, they often abuse that power.

No system is ever perfect---but I still think we have the best one in the world. Perhaps I'm biased;) I'm going to shut up now.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-01-2008, 04:58 PM
With all the crimes of today and things only seeming to get worst.
Does anyone think that the Laws should be changed to the way they used to do it back in the day of a tall tree, short rope?
If you are convicted of murder I think that is what should happen. Not just for punishment, but to save us as tax payers of having to keep these slime bags up and fed. I know that there wouldnt be Bengals Football Team, but they are wanting a new franchise in L.A. anyway.
What ya think?

You may want to ask the gentleman that was released last tuesday in Texas.
He spent 27 years in prison and was released last week because DNA cleared him of all charges. He held his innocence all 27 years and did not take the option of parol if he admited to the crime.......

Not everyone conviced is guilty

Galax Steeler
05-02-2008, 04:46 AM
I'm all for it if they are abosolutly guilty then hang them so our tax dollars don't have to feed them.

stlrtruck
05-02-2008, 08:46 AM
And I don't know what you consider a slap on the wrist---so its hard for me to argue this point with any real force. Serious offenders who get out on 2-3 years of good behavior. Look I'm all for people deserving second chances in life but there are times that someone's inability to control their violent behaviors doesn't deserve a second chance, they deserve the death penalty. Now I'm all for those currently on death row or on life terms for murder to have their cases opened and DNA tested with modern technology and then let their fate be determined. If the new tests show that they are innocent, let them walk. If the tests show inconclusive then let them serve out their current sentence as it stands. And if it shows 100% that they did it - then ease the suffering on the tax payers and put 'em to sleep.

Thats a tort reform issue not a crime/punishment issue. Besides, it is my understand that that is an urban legend---I've only heard that story in e-mails. If you can show me proof that actually occured I'd love to see it. . I'll do a search on it and get back to you.

Of course we have a standard of obeying the law, but the cops have to obey the law as well---they are not above the law. Thats what makes this country so great.
I don't think as many people are getting "off" via the 4th amendment as you seem to think. But even if there are a lot, my point stands------Our constitution and the bill of rights was set up to protect personal liberty from abuse by the government. Today, most law abiding citizens like ourselves feel that we have nothing to hide, and the police can search us all they want. But what if we didn't have the most benevolent government? What if the wrong people got into power? What if crazy laws were passed?. I agree, cops need to obey the law too. And while I understand the purpose of the 4th amendment, especially against "wrong' people in power - I've seen too many cases (I know there's been several case thrown out here) that have used the loophole to have strong cases against criminal element thrown out - only to have the criminal element return to hurt others.

If we didn't have these protections, if the 4th amendment didn't exist, if the cops didn't have to live by these rules---can't you see that there would be great opportunity for people who crave power to not just capture true criminals, but to make innocent law abiding people like yourself like into criminals---for no good reason?

Valid point. And I can only say that it goes back to your previous statement about having "wrong" people in power.

No system is ever perfect---but I still think we have the best one in the world. Perhaps I'm biased;) I'm going to shut up now.

I would agree with you there! :usa:

Elvis
05-05-2008, 02:58 PM
And you call yourself a Christian?

Read the news. How many people have had their CONVICTIONS (your word) for murder overturned within the last 10 years by modern forensics and DNA testing?

Our court system is the best we can do, but it isn't perfect. We try, but we get it wrong sometimes.

I tell you what. I'll accept your proposal. But YOU have to be the one doing the hanging. YOU have to choose the tree, YOU throw the rope over it, and YOU look the accused in the eye as you tighten the knot and drop the trapdoor. And then YOU have to stand before your god and explain your actions on your judgement day.
The King James Bible says " an eye for an eye ". It also says that there liars will not be in heaven. One of the Ten Commandments is " thou shalt Not Kill"
It is mine and your, that is if you work for a living, tax money that pays for these guys/girls to live in prison on death row for how many years?. Its just crazy that we are still doing that. These are just my opinions, so take them personally ok?...
Good to know that you know about the upcoming judgement day that we will all have to face though mosca

Elvis
05-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Michael Vick is the perfect example here folks of our justice system. He fights dogs and kills a couple dogs.. he gets 2 years in prison right?... well, not a month before all the dog fighting incedents came out there was a man about 50 miles from my hometown that killed his 8 or so month old son.. he died of shaken baby syndrome... This gentleman got 2 years and whatever community service work.. its Ridiculous. you get more or about the same time in prison for killing a dog as you do for killing a baby.. In my opinion,,, you can Kill Every Dog in the World and it wouldnt be equal to killing a child!!

Mosca
05-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Yawn. A literal interpretation of the Bible when it is convenient for you. What else would I have expected? Go for the Old Testament when it works for you, but ignore the loving testimony of Christ.

And you missed the gist of my reply anyhow, which is that a large number of convictions have been overturned in recent years due to new evidence confirming innocence. The number of overturned convictions is now well into the hundreds... but by your method, these men would have already been executed.


The King James Bible says " an eye for an eye ". It also says that there liars will not be in heaven. One of the Ten Commandments is " thou shalt Not Kill"
It is mine and your, that is if you work for a living, tax money that pays for these guys/girls to live in prison on death row for how many years?. Its just crazy that we are still doing that. These are just my opinions, so take them personally ok?...
Good to know that you know about the upcoming judgement day that we will all have to face though mosca

stlrtruck
05-05-2008, 04:13 PM
Yawn. A literal interpretation of the Bible when it is convenient for you. What else would I have expected? Go for the Old Testament when it works for you, but ignore the loving testimony of Christ.

And you missed the gist of my reply anyhow, which is that a large number of convictions have been overturned in recent years due to new evidence confirming innocence. The number of overturned convictions is now well into the hundreds... but by your method, these men would have already been executed.

While Jesus Christ preached the love for all of mankind, he also taught us that there are consequences for the things we do. And one should understand that when Jesus Christ died on the cross he bridged the gap betwee us and God as well as the Old Testament laws and traditions. However, He also stated that one should also follow the laws of the land - not because of the laws but because of our relationship with Him, showing His love to others through us. Basically, we don't do the work of the Lord for recognition but instead out of obedience in our relationship with Him.

SO does this mean that we should automatically discount people's actions and constantly show them grace and mercy? I don't believe so. I truly believe that we can continue to show Christ's love to others without eliminating the consequences of their actions/decisions - and sometimes those actions call for death under the law of the land. Now if that criminal elemant makes right with Christ before his/her death then who are we to question God's decisions, instead we judge based on human law for the simple fact that our finite minds can understand the purpose that the Lord has for others - nor His time.

So while we may or may not have a strong opinion on the death penalty, we truly are no one to judge a single person. That is to be left for God. Truly God has called us to show the world His Love.

While I believe in the death penalty for certain acts, I understand that there are times when the system doesn't work right and individuals from previous circumstances have benefited from not receiving the death penalty and instead have been set free because of current scientific and technological advances.

Bottom line - the system isn't broke but it isn't perfect either. Regardless, as a Christian, I am called to show God's love to all pepple nevermind their course of action - that is not for me to judge, Lord knows my sins are many (some only He knows) and it only takes one!!!