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Jeremy
05-08-2008, 05:31 PM
http://www.nationalreview.com/levin/levin071002.asp



John McCain fancies himself a reformer, a trustbuster, a progressive. But the truth is he's a hypocrite.

Putting aside his dealings with convicted felon Charles Keating (as the mainstream media does), he's now all over radio and television, and in the print media, demanding corporate accountability. In fact, on a radio program this morning, McCain decried "unfettered capitalism."

Now, anyone who has tried to start a small business, or has been in business for all of three minutes, knows that American capitalism is far too "fettered." You can't start a business in most places without securing and paying for a license. Most businesses are required to pay employees a minimum wage. All businesses are required to make payroll deductions for a host of programs, including Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, and workmen's compensation.

And then there are the other "fetters": affirmative action; unpaid family leave; the Occupational Safety and Health Administration Act; the Americans with Disabilities Act; the Fair Labor Standards Act; local, state and federal taxes; and on and on and on. Indeed, I can think of few transactions that occur between individuals in this country that aren't in some way taxed or regulated.

In truth, McCain has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of "fettered capitalism." All kinds of corporations have found their way to his door with campaign cash in hand. And some of these corporations are the very corporations McCain is railing against.

For example, from 1997-2001, McCain received $31,000 from Global Crossing, which makes him the Senate's top recipient of contributions from that now bankrupt company.

From 1989-2002, McCain received $23,900 from WorldCom, making him the Senate's third top recipient of contributions from that soon-to-be bankrupt company.

From 1989-2001, McCain received $23,250 from Arthur Andersen, making him the Senate's tenth top recipient of contributions from that soon-to-be defunct company.

And from 1989-2001, McCain received $9,500 from Enron, making him the twelfth top recipient of contributions from that bankrupt company.

Of course, I don't believe the mere receipt of campaign contributions is corrupting. In fact, it's evidence of representative government at work. The public has every right to try to influence the direction of their government. But McCain believes this activity to be corrupt, yet he took the money anyway.

If American capitalism is truly "unfettered," and if business contributions are intended to influence their recipients, there would be no reason for businesses to try to influence politicians like McCain through campaign contributions.

What would be nice would be less bluster and more "unfettered" honesty from Arizona's senior senator.

HometownGal
05-08-2008, 05:42 PM
You're getting a little better there Jeremy. This article is only 6 years old. :laughing::toofunny: Very reputable site there, too. :coffee:

July 11, 2002 1:45 p.m.
John McCain: Hypocrite
The unfettered truth.

Jeremy
05-08-2008, 05:44 PM
You're getting a little better there Jeremy. This article is only 6 years old. :laughing::toofunny: Very reputable site there, too. :coffee:

National Review isn't a repuatable site?

Now I've heard everything.

HometownGal
05-08-2008, 05:54 PM
National Review isn't a repuatable site?

Now I've heard everything.

It is a website/magazine comprised of editorials and opinions, not necesarily fact. Sorry that you find it credible - for the most part, I don't.

Jeremy
05-08-2008, 05:55 PM
It is a website/magazine comprised of editorials and opinions, not necesarily fact. Sorry that you find it credible - for the most part, I don't.

Oh well......I guess if it isn't Fox News it just isn't news to some people.

NJarhead
05-08-2008, 06:13 PM
Billy Joel should rename this song, "Jeremy."

The Angry Young Man by B. Joel

There's a place in the world for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend, he refuses to crawl,
And He's always at home with his back to the wall.
And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost,
And he struggles and bleeds as he hangs on his cross-
And he likes to be known as the angry young man.

Give a moment or two to the angry young man,
With his foot in his mouth and his heart in his hand.
He's been stabbed in the back, he's been misunderstood,
It's a comfort to know his intentions are good.
And he sits in a room with a lock on the door,
With his maps and his medals laid out on the floor-
And he likes to be known as the angry young man.

I believe I've passed the age
Of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight.
I once believed in causes too,
I had my pointless point of view,
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right. OHHHHHHHH

And there's always a place for the angry young man,
With his fist in the air and his head in the sand.
And he's never been able to learn from mistakes,
So he can't understand why his heart always breaks.
And his honor is pure and his courage as well,
And he's fair and he's true and he's boring as hell-
And he'll go to the grave as an angry old man.

There's always a place for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend, he refuses to crawl,
And He's always at home with his back to the wall.
And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost,
And he struggles and bleeds as he hangs on his cross-
And he likes to be known as the angry young man.

HometownGal
05-08-2008, 07:33 PM
Oh well......I guess if it isn't Fox News it just isn't news to some people.

Are you referring to me there buckaroo? If you are, please don't put words in my mouth. If I choose not to view the National Review as "credible", that is my perogative. If you choose to view it in a different light than I do, that is your perogative. End of story.

revefsreleets
05-08-2008, 08:22 PM
I think we need more threads started by Sybil* about how much he hates John McCain and how bad and evil he is.



*I call 'em like I see 'em, mods...infract if you must.

Jeremy
05-08-2008, 08:41 PM
I think we need more threads started by Sybil* about how much he hates John McCain and how bad and evil he is.



*I call 'em like I see 'em, mods...infract if you must.

And you're a dick.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-08-2008, 11:17 PM
Oh well......I guess if it isn't Fox News it just isn't news to some people.

Fox News is the only news ("most")republicans know.

GBMelBlount
05-08-2008, 11:26 PM
Fox News is the only news ("most")republicans know.

Agreed, It only takes a few minutes of watching the other major networks and I switch over to Fox. "Global warming" is a perfect example of why I do .... feel free to pick a major issue and we can discuss how it's covered by the other major networks vs. FOX.

Godfather
05-08-2008, 11:46 PM
I agree that government is anti-business but this article cites some terrible examples:

"You can't start a business in most places without securing and paying for a license"

Big deal. It's usually a nominal fee, and there needs to be some method of making the business official.

Most businesses are required to pay employees a minimum wage--OK, that's a fetter (although the minimum wage isn't that high)/

All businesses are required to make payroll deductions for a host of programs, including Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, and workmen's compensation--very fair point. Of course that hurts workers, not businesses. That just depresses salaries.

And then there are the other "fetters":
affirmative action--not mandatory
unpaid family leave--not mandatory for small employers
the Occupational Safety and Health Administration Act--if you cut corners on workplace safety and cause employees to be killed or injured, you deserve far worse than what you actually get
the Americans with Disabilities Act--simply bans discrimination, and only then if the disability has no relation to the employees' ability to do the job. Plus, I've seen cases in New Orleans where there was a non-accessible building and preservation codes kept the building that way
the Fair Labor Standards Act--not familiar with the specifics of that law
local, state and federal taxes--Agree that those are too high, but some functions of government are necessary. How do you propose paying for them without taxes at any level?

Preacher
05-08-2008, 11:52 PM
I agree that government is anti-business but this article cites some terrible examples:

"You can't start a business in most places without securing and paying for a license"

Big deal. It's usually a nominal fee, and there needs to be some method of making the business official.

Most businesses are required to pay employees a minimum wage--OK, that's a fetter (although the minimum wage isn't that high)/

All businesses are required to make payroll deductions for a host of programs, including Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, and workmen's compensation--very fair point. Of course that hurts workers, not businesses. That just depresses salaries.

And then there are the other "fetters":
affirmative action--not mandatory
unpaid family leave--not mandatory for small employers
the Occupational Safety and Health Administration Act--if you cut corners on workplace safety and cause employees to be killed or injured, you deserve far worse than what you actually get
the Americans with Disabilities Act--simply bans discrimination, and only then if the disability has no relation to the employees' ability to do the job. Plus, I've seen cases in New Orleans where there was a non-accessible building and preservation codes kept the building that way
the Fair Labor Standards Act--not familiar with the specifics of that law
local, state and federal taxes--Agree that those are too high, but some functions of government are necessary. How do you propose paying for them without taxes at any level?

:hunch:

did you mean to post in this thread?

fansince'76
05-09-2008, 02:08 AM
:hunch:

did you mean to post in this thread?

Yes, he did - the thread kinda got hijacked by my and BBFW's global warming debate which I've split off into its own thread: http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=25032. Sorry. :chuckle:

Jeremy
05-09-2008, 07:17 PM
Agreed, It only takes a few minutes of watching the other major networks and I switch over to Fox. "Global warming" is a perfect example of why I do .... feel free to pick a major issue and we can discuss how it's covered by the other major networks vs. FOX.

Fox isn't news.....it's entertainment.

Period.

Preacher
05-09-2008, 07:32 PM
Fox isn't news.....it's entertainment.

Period.

CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, etc. etc. are ALL entertainment.

If they don't serve a specific section of the community, they don't make money and can not stay in business.

It is an entertainment community.

NJarhead
05-09-2008, 07:48 PM
CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, etc. etc. are ALL entertainment.

If they don't serve a specific section of the community, they don't make money and can not stay in business.

It is an entertainment community.

Ya know Preach, you really need to stop making so much sense.

Preacher
05-09-2008, 07:49 PM
Ya know Preach, you really need to stop making so much sense.

:chuckle:

Sorry!

Atlanta Dan
05-09-2008, 08:10 PM
You're getting a little better there Jeremy. This article is only 6 years old. :laughing::toofunny: Very reputable site there, too. :coffee:

Here's one from today:chuckle:

Sen. John McCain championed legislation that will let an Arizona rancher trade remote grassland and ponderosa pine forest here for acres of valuable federally owned property that is ready for development, a land swap that now stands to directly benefit one of his top presidential campaign fundraisers].

Initially reluctant to support the swap, the Arizona Republican became a key figure in pushing the deal through Congress after the rancher and his partners hired lobbyists that included McCain's 1992 Senate campaign manager, two of his former Senate staff members (one of whom has returned as his chief of staff), and an Arizona insider who was a major McCain donor and is now bundling campaign checks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/08/AR2008050803494.html?nav=hcmodule

Preacher
05-09-2008, 08:12 PM
Here's one from today:chuckle:

Sen. John McCain championed legislation that will let an Arizona rancher trade remote grassland and ponderosa pine forest here for acres of valuable federally owned property that is ready for development, a land swap that now stands to directly benefit one of his top presidential campaign fundraisers].

Initially reluctant to support the swap, the Arizona Republican became a key figure in pushing the deal through Congress after the rancher and his partners hired lobbyists that included McCain's 1992 Senate campaign manager, two of his former Senate staff members (one of whom has returned as his chief of staff), and an Arizona insider who was a major McCain donor and is now bundling campaign checks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/08/AR2008050803494.html?nav=hcmodule


Well...

I guess McCain is just like the rest of them then.

Atlanta Dan
05-09-2008, 08:17 PM
Well...

I guess McCain is just like the rest of them then.

Well - McCain is not Robert Byrd, but Byrd has never campaigned as someone above petty pork barrel politics.

It is the same problem Obama has - if you want to bring America together it is not a good visual to sit for years in a pew at Rev Wright's church

If you want to take trading $$ for favors out of politics, these sorts of stories and being BFF with Charles Keating are not helpful to that image

Preacher
05-09-2008, 08:22 PM
Well - McCain is not Robert Byrd, but Byrd has never campaigned as someone above petty pork barrel politics.

It is the same problem Obama has - if you want to bring America together it is not a good visual to sit for years in a pew at Rev Wright's church

If you want to take trading $$ for favors out of politics, these sorts of stories and being BFF with Charles Keating are not helpful to that image

The Keating connection was a bit overblown.. and quite a bit in the past... Say 15 plus years ago...

I think all three have problems... and again, just another reason why I call them the three stooges.

Atlanta Dan
05-09-2008, 08:35 PM
The Keating connection was a bit overblown.. and quite a bit in the past... Say 15 plus years ago...


He tried to strongarm federal regulators for a major (and felonious) campaign contributor - if you want to talk the talk you need to walk the walk

Preacher
05-09-2008, 08:55 PM
He tried to strongarm federal regulators for a major (and felonious) campaign contributor - if you want to talk the talk you need to walk the walk

I think you're being a bit misleading with the timing and invovlement.

Keating 5... happened in 1989, his campaign reform, 2001-3... 12-14 years afterwards. That is a LIFETIME in politics.

Second.... he was found to be only MINIMALLY involved... and was not censured.

I think you are making a mountain out of what congress called a mole-hill for him.

BTW... another republican was held more responsible... and another democrat was held as little responsible as McCain was.


Let's be a little more fair in the way we are casting him, shall we?

McCain is the Republicans version of Bill Clinton. He triangulates and tries to be above the fray... only to be mr. politics in the things he wants to push.

I don't like him... but would rather we deal with the real issues, instead of trying to dredge up something from the politcally distant past and then compare it to something said 12-13 years later.

Atlanta Dan
05-09-2008, 09:13 PM
I think you're being a bit misleading with the timing and invovlement.

Keating 5... happened in 1989, his campaign reform, 2001-3... 12-14 years afterwards. That is a LIFETIME in politics.

Second.... he was found to be only MINIMALLY involved... and was not censured.

I think you are making a mountain out of what congress called a mole-hill for him.

BTW... another republican was held more responsible... and another democrat was held as little responsible as McCain was.


Let's be a little more fair in the way we are casting him, shall we?

McCain is the Republicans version of Bill Clinton. He triangulates and tries to be above the fray... only to be mr. politics in the things he wants to push.

I don't like him... but would rather we deal with the real issues, instead of trying to dredge up something from the politcally distant past and then compare it to something said 12-13 years later.

I think we agree more than we disagree on that - Obama has been trashed for being all hat and no cattle & my point is he is not the only person in the contest who has a tension between the image and reality

As far as getting an election based on real issues, ain't gonna happen - when you combine the viral impact of the Internet with racial tension coming from supporters on both sides, this will be the ugliest campaign we have ever lived through - some think Obama is Satan and some think he is the Messiah - religious wars are a nasty piece of business and this election will be all about the first non-white guy running for President.

Jeremy
05-10-2008, 12:43 AM
Fine.....leave the Keating thing alone and you still have him in the Gang Of 14, his lies in South Carolina in 2000, and his hypocrisy in the way he deals with access to his family.

Dudes got problems and they're going to come to a head well before November.

Preacher
05-10-2008, 01:08 AM
I think we agree more than we disagree on that - Obama has been trashed for being all hat and no cattle & my point is he is not the only person in the contest who has a tension between the image and reality

As far as getting an election based on real issues, ain't gonna happen - when you combine the viral impact of the Internet with racial tension coming from supporters on both sides, this will be the ugliest campaign we have ever lived through - some think Obama is Satan and some think he is the Messiah - religious wars are a nasty piece of business and this election will be all about the first non-white guy running for President.

The only SMART thing that McCain could do, which would help tis issue (to a lesser degree however) would be to bring a black candidate on as VP.

However, it wouldn't do much good, because he will be called a house ######.

In the end, I agree.. it is going to be very ugly this year.

Jeremy
05-10-2008, 10:54 AM
The only SMART thing that McCain could do, which would help tis issue (to a lesser degree however) would be to bring a black candidate on as VP.

However, it wouldn't do much good, because he will be called a house ######.

In the end, I agree.. it is going to be very ugly this year.

The American people are still smart enough to see through that Preacher. A black VP candidate would be a total joke, even more so if the candidate is Rice. That would just confirm a lot of people's beliefs that McCain is setting himself up as a continuation of the Bush policies.

Atlanta Dan
05-10-2008, 04:32 PM
The American people are still smart enough to see through that Preacher. A black VP candidate would be a total joke, even more so if the candidate is Rice. That would just confirm a lot of people's beliefs that McCain is setting himself up as a continuation of the Bush policies.

But McCain may make a play for older white women (Hill's core constituency) who are furious that Obama is the latest alleged example of an allegedly deserving woman (that of course is not Hillary but I digress) being denied the big promotion that is given to some younger guy with a good line of BS - keep an eye on Senator Kay Hutchison from Texas as McCain's VP.

Preacher
05-10-2008, 04:49 PM
But McCain may make a play for older white women (Hill's core constituency) who are furious that Obama is the latest alleged example of an allegedly deserving woman (that of course is not Hillary but I digress) being denied the big promotion that is given to some younger guy with a good line of BS - keep an eye on Senator Kay Hutchison from Texas as McCain's VP.


WOW...

Now that actually makes some good sense... and it sets up a Rep. woman to run for president in 8 years.

I really don't think that a black man or woman will win out of the DNC... mainly because republicans won't cross over to vote for a democrat based on race. However, I do think some dems would crossover to vote for a GOP based on sex or race.

Very interesting.

The other thing to think about... is McCain having to shore up his conservative base that right now, really doesn't want to vote for him. It will take a good strong conservative to shore up that base.

GBMelBlount
05-10-2008, 05:03 PM
WOW...

The other thing to think about... is McCain having to shore up his conservative base that right now, really doesn't want to vote for him. It will take a good strong conservative to shore up that base.

He may only need to be the "least left" to attract many of the conservatives. However if the perceived difference between the candidates is too little, many may just stay home.

Preacher
05-10-2008, 05:05 PM
He may only need to be the "least left" to attract many of the conservatives. However if the perceived difference between the candidates is too little, many may just stay home.

That is my EXACT point!!

revefsreleets
05-10-2008, 07:37 PM
Wasn't this thread initially about McCain being another agent in the evil war against small business?

Since facts only get in the way of some, I thought a few might help. I went to the National Federation of Independent Business (one of the very few small business advocate organizations) website, and was not at all shocked to find that John McCain has a long history of voting FOR small business initiatives at a healthy click of 100%. It's all here in black and white:

http://www.nfib.com/object/howCongressVoted110.html

Bear in mind, this is a site dedicated to pushing ONLY small and independent business interests.

Oh, Hillary and Obama were both a 0% in the 110th congress, and they both voted in favor of small business at 12% in the 109th.

GBMelBlount
05-10-2008, 08:13 PM
I had seen a summary of those stats before and that is why I was surprised some have said they wouldn't vote for McCain because he is too liberal. McCain is left of some but still to the right (based on voting record) of Hillary and Obama. McCain wasn't my first pick but to not vote because he's more moderate and not "far right" doesn't make sense to me.

Dino 6 Rings
05-12-2008, 01:40 PM
If this thread was titled "All Politicians are Hypocrites" it would have more potency. Instead, its just a drive by attack on one of the candidates. How boring.

Obama (hates whitey and is a socialist)
Clinton (hates men and is a communist)
McCain (hates the Vietcong and Terrorists)

That's the only add McCain would need to run over and over again and he'd win the election.

Personally, I'm voting just to get my votes in for the local government, when it comes to the Prez, Hannah Montana still has my vote, even with the scandelous "open back" pictures she had taken. I forgive her.