PDA

View Full Version : He's Not Just Scary - He's Dumb!


HometownGal
05-18-2008, 01:57 PM
IQ of an acorn. :uhh::uhh::huh:

EpGH02DtIws

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2008, 02:18 PM
IQ of an acorn. :uhh::uhh::huh:

EpGH02DtIws

Yeah = president of the Harvard Law Review - a complete moron

HometownGal
05-18-2008, 03:11 PM
Yeah = president of the Harvard Law Review - a complete moron

President of the Harvard Law Review or not, Dan - that was a totally moronic statement. :banging: A presidential candidate who doesn't even know how many states make up the country he is campaigning to lead? :uhh::shake01:

stillers4me
05-18-2008, 03:12 PM
And they call Dubya stupid.


Change......be careful what you wish for............:doh:

millwalldavey
05-18-2008, 03:13 PM
I think he was talking about how many stops he made... he visited a few places more than once... even so, he could have prepped himself a litle better and rehearsed a bit... people lie in wait for this stuff

stillers4me
05-18-2008, 03:16 PM
I think he was talking about how many stops he made... he visited a few places more than once... even so, he could have prepped himself a litle better and rehearsed a bit... people lie in wait for this stuff

Excuses for the Lib.......but never for Dubya. :noidea:

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2008, 03:28 PM
President of the Harvard Law Review or not, Dan - that was a totally moronic statement. :banging: A presidential candidate who doesn't even know how many states make up the country he is campaigning to lead? :uhh::shake01:

Thank goodness the current President and presumptive GOP nominee have never made any totally moronic statements - there are lots of ways to come after Obama and we will see them all this fall, but claiming he is a dim bulb might not be a productive strategery.

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2008, 03:31 PM
Excuses for the Lib.......but never for Dubya. :noidea:

I did not excuse it - I just said he was not a moron - however, the irony of Obama's opponents saying a verbal gaffe somehow disqualifies you from being President did not escape me:sofunny:

GBMelBlount
05-18-2008, 03:34 PM
I think he was talking about how many stops he made... he visited a few places more than once... even so, he could have prepped himself a litle better and rehearsed a bit... people lie in wait for this stuff

I agree. I only went to college at one place, but while there, I was in different states of confusion on countless occasions!

millwalldavey
05-18-2008, 05:12 PM
Excuses for the Lib.......but never for Dubya. :noidea:

Not making an excuse for the guy... just trying to be a devil's advocate. It's a strssful thing this campaign. Again, I made no excuse for him, if you read carefully you'd notice that I think he guy needs a bit of prep work on his speeches to sound a little more intelligent.

BTW...as for W... there is no excuse for him IMHO.

HometownGal
05-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Thank goodness the current President and presumptive GOP nominee have never made any totally moronic statements - there are lots of ways to come after Obama and we will see them all this fall, but claiming he is a dim bulb might not be a productive strategery.

Sure they have, Dan - no doubt about it. The Demos, though, are the first to crucify W if he makes a blunder (or for that matter, if he even so much as sneezes), so turn about is fair play, imho. If you enjoy the taste of the Obama kool-aid, more power to you, but a Presidential candidate making a gaffe like that in the heat of a party nomination battle takes the stupidity cake.

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2008, 05:37 PM
Sure they have, Dan - no doubt about it. The Demos, though, are the first to crucify W if he makes a blunder (or for that matter, if he even so much as sneezes), so turn about is fair play, imho. If you enjoy the taste of the Obama kool-aid, more power to you, but a Presidential candidate making a gaffe like that in the heat of a party nomination battle takes the stupidity cake.

Thanks for keeping this discourse at a high level with references to the Obama "Kool=Aid." Turn about is fair play (I assume you have seen the video where Lieberman had to walk McCain back from claiming Iran is training al-Qaeda operatives in Iraq) but the idea this indicates Obama is a moron is nonsense.

I can make arguments in support of both McCain and Obama in November (and am most relieved we will not have someone named Bush or Clinton on either ticket) - the fact that you prefer to debate the election at this level might reflect on which of us has put the blinders on

I am not initiating Obama discussions with you but if you want to inititate these sorts of posts then, as W said in another context "bring it on.":thumbsup:

Rhee Rhee
05-18-2008, 05:41 PM
o boy.

being a Punahou student and seeing a Punahou alum say something like this is, depressing to say the least. especially when it's potentially the next president of the U.S

HometownGal
05-18-2008, 05:57 PM
Thanks for keeping this discourse at a high level with references to the Obama "Kool=Aid." Turn about is fair play (I assume you have seen the video where Lieberman had to walk McCain back from claiming Iran is training al-Qaeda operatives in Iraq) but the idea this indicates Obama is a moron is nonsense.

I can make arguments in support of both McCain and Obama in November (and am most relieved we will not have someone named Bush or Clinton on either ticket) - the fact that you prefer to debate the election at this level might reflect on which of us has put the blinders on

I am not initiating Obama discussions with you but if you want to inititate these sorts of posts then, as W said in another context "bring it on.":thumbsup:

I didn't initiate an Obama discussion with you, either, Dan. I simply posted a video of Obama making a huge blunder which came across as - yes - stupid, considering the fact that he is supposedly a well-educated man. You've made no secret you are an Obama supporter and that certainly is your privilege. I do respect that, but you did what most Demos do when one of their own is called out - you turned it around and played the "I know you are but what am I" card.

I, on the other hand, have also made no secret that I am supporting John McCain in this election, not because he is a Repub, but because I feel he is the best candidate of what's out there and his platforms more closely mirror mine than any of the other candidates. On the other hand, however, if McCain would have made a moronic blunder (sorry) as Obama did (I think most of us learned in 2nd or 3rd grade that the USA is comprised of 50 states), I would call him out just as I did Obama.

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2008, 06:29 PM
I didn't initiate an Obama discussion with you, either, Dan. I simply posted a video of Obama making a huge blunder which came across as - yes - stupid, considering the fact that he is supposedly a well-educated man. You've made no secret you are an Obama supporter and that certainly is your privilege. I do respect that, but you did what most Demos do when one of their own is called out - you turned it around and played the "I know you are but what am I" card.

I, on the other hand, have also made no secret that I am supporting John McCain in this election, not because he is a Repub, but because I feel he is the best candidate of what's out there and his platforms more closely mirror mine than any of the other candidates. On the other hand, however, if McCain would have made a moronic blunder (sorry) as Obama did (I think most of us learned in 2nd or 3rd grade that the USA is comprised of 50 states), I would call him out just as I did Obama.

The hell I did - you claimed a gaffe indicated he was moron - I pointed out there is evidence to the contrary

As far as the slur about my response being typical of "most Dems" here is my voting record for Presidents - Reagan, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Clinton, Bush II, Kerry - that is 4 GOP & 3 Dems (trending Dem but 6 out of 7 winners, which indicates I am not totally out of the mainstream)

Care to share your voting record with me - I am willing to bet it might not indicate quite the picture of bi-partisanship you are shilling here

The idea you are any more even handed about this election than I am is preposterous

Preacher and I had an offline (and even tempered) discussion about our posts and potential stridency recently - I am coming around to the view the board needs a break from me as much as I need a break from the board

:wave:

xXTheSteelKingsXx
05-18-2008, 06:38 PM
I think that he ment to say 47. Probably just didn't catch it when he said 57.

HometownGal
05-18-2008, 06:56 PM
The hell I did - you claimed a gaffe indicated he was moron - I pointed out there is evidence to the contrary

As far as the slur about my response being typical of "most Dems" here is my voting record for Presidents - Reagan, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Clinton, Bush II, Kerry - that is 4 GOP & 3 Dems (trending Dem but 6 out of 7 winners, which indicates I am not totally out of the mainstream)

Care to share your voting record with me - I am willing to bet it might not indicate quite the picture of bi-partisanship you are shilling here

The idea you are any more even handed about this election than I am is preposterous

Preacher and I had an offline (and even tempered) discussion about our posts and potential stridency recently - I am coming around to the view the board needs a break from me as much as I need a break from the board

:wave:

Oh for God's sake, Dan - this is ridiculous. I posted a video of Obama making a blunder which I felt came across as stupid. From others' responses here, I am not the only one who came to that conclusion.

Please stop making this so personal. My beef isn't with you - it is with a candidate you have made no secret of supporting and again - that is your right to do so, just as it is my right to call him out for making a boneheaded statement.

All candidates (as human beings first and foremost) make blunders along the long and difficult road to the office they seek. They aren't perfect by any means (and neither are any of us, including me). However, one would think that a man purportedly as intelligent as Obama would be a bit more cautious, as the spotlight is on him (as well as the other candidates) and faux pas such as this are going to be called out by those not in his corner (and that includes me in this election).

For the record, I was a registered Demo until 2004 and as I have stated many times on this board, I have always voted for the candidate my views more closely resembled and not along party lines. My voting history is:

Reagan
Reagan
GHWB
Clinton
Clinton
Gore (I know, I know)
GWB

Black@Gold Forever32
05-18-2008, 07:10 PM
I think that he ment to say 47. Probably just didn't catch it when he said 57.

Exactly....:thumbsup:People can't make a mistake these days I guess....Questioning Senator Obama's intelligence is just laughable....He isn't the first politician to make a speaking error like this and he won't be the last....

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2008, 07:17 PM
Oh for God's sake, Dan - this is ridiculous. I posted a video of Obama making a blunder which I felt came across as stupid. From others' responses here, I am not the only one who came to that conclusion.

Please stop making this so personal. My beef isn't with you - it is with a candidate you have made no secret of supporting and again - that is your right to do so, just as it is my right to call him out for making a boneheaded statement.

All candidates (as human beings first and foremost) make blunders along the long and difficult road to the office they seek. They aren't perfect by any means (and neither are any of us, including me). However, one would think that a man purportedly as intelligent as Obama would be a bit more cautious, as the spotlight is on him (as well as the other candidates) and faux pas such as this are going to be called out by those not in his corner (and that includes me in this election).

For the record, I was a registered Demo until 2004 and as I have stated many times on this board, I have always voted for the candidate my views more closely resembled and not along party lines. My voting history is:

Reagan
Reagan
GHWB
Clinton
Clinton
Gore (I know, I know)
GWB

Marianne - given our mutual respect over the years I do not want to appear to be ignoring your last post but I am out of here for awhile as far as posting goes

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-18-2008, 07:29 PM
I love Oboma............
Do care to put his "mistakes" against Bush's.......... We all know Bush has done and said some pretty funny things?

I think what happens is that they have so much they are thinking about and worrying about how it is going to sound..........what to say........what not to say.........

Good stuff!:applaudit:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-18-2008, 07:33 PM
Oh for God's sake, Dan - this is ridiculous. I posted a video of Obama making a blunder which I felt came across as stupid. From others' responses here, I am not the only one who came to that conclusion.

Please stop making this so personal. My beef isn't with you - it is with a candidate you have made no secret of supporting and again - that is your right to do so, just as it is my right to call him out for making a boneheaded statement.

All candidates (as human beings first and foremost) make blunders along the long and difficult road to the office they seek. They aren't perfect by any means (and neither are any of us, including me). However, one would think that a man purportedly as intelligent as Obama would be a bit more cautious, as the spotlight is on him (as well as the other candidates) and faux pas such as this are going to be called out by those not in his corner (and that includes me in this election).

For the record, I was a registered Demo until 2004 and as I have stated many times on this board, I have always voted for the candidate my views more closely resembled and not along party lines. My voting history is:

Reagan
Reagan
GHWB
Clinton
Clinton
Gore (I know, I know)
GWB


I just dont understand it.............WHY DID PEOPLE EVER VOTE FOR GWB...

Do you regret voting for him....... Do u feel you made a mistake?
Even thoes who support bush to this day.......(roughly 19% of americans (maybe 29%), but anyway... of thoes who still support him........They, you have to realize in the back of your mind that hes just a bad president......(have a beer with him if you will).....but hes still a bad president

HometownGal
05-18-2008, 07:48 PM
I just dont understand it.............WHY DID PEOPLE EVER VOTE FOR GWB...

Do you regret voting for him....... Do u feel you made a mistake?
Even thoes who support bush to this day.......(roughly 19% of americans (maybe 29%), but anyway... of thoes who still support him........They, you have to realize in the back of your mind that hes just a bad president......(have a beer with him if you will).....but hes still a bad president

Honestly - yes, at times I do and there are other times when I don't regret my decision - it depends on the issue. On the other hand, though, I also feel more strongly that I would have made an even bigger mistake had I voted for John Kerry (and NO - it isn't because he is a Demo!) and he had won the White House.

The President/leader of any country is always going to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's the nature of the beast. I haven't agreed 100% with any candidate I have voted for in the past and if Senator McCain is elected, I doubt I will agree with everything he says and/or does.

stillers4me
05-18-2008, 08:09 PM
GW a bad president? Obviously, you're too young to have lived through the presidency of Jimmy Carrter. :chuckle:

Godfather
05-18-2008, 09:06 PM
I love Oboma............
Do care to put his "mistakes" against Bush's.......... We all know Bush has done and said some pretty funny things?

I think what happens is that they have so much they are thinking about and worrying about how it is going to sound..........what to say........what not to say.........

Good stuff!:applaudit:

We can thank the 24 hour news cycle for this. Cameras are on these candidates 24-7 and every blunder is repeated and magnified...it's safe to say candidates 50 and 100 years ago made the same blunders with less publicity.

Does anyone know if 57 "states" includes places like Guam, Puerto Rico, etc. that get to vote in the primaries?? Or was this just a flat out screwup?

TroysBadDawg
05-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Excuse me I have not seen this blunder on the news, in fact it has been very well hidden by main stream media except on the Internet. They show you what they want and reverse, but keep saying the people have a right to know and freedom of the press. It is very biased to say the least.

GBMelBlount
05-18-2008, 09:49 PM
Excuse me I have not seen this blunder on the news, in fact it has been very well hidden by main stream media except on the Internet. They show you what they want and reverse, but keep saying the people have a right to know and freedom of the press. It is very biased to say the least.

That is an interesting point in general. I do remember things that were highly publicized in the media about President Ford & the first Bush for instance, portraying them as bumbling & clumsy when in fact they were both athletic and reasonably well coordinated.

Preacher
05-18-2008, 11:06 PM
Yeah = president of the Harvard Law Review - a complete moron

It doesn't take intelligence to be the president of law review... just relationships. you have other people to do the hard work.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-18-2008, 11:12 PM
GW a bad president? Obviously, you're too young to have lived through the presidency of Jimmy Carrter. :chuckle:

Thank god.....
But I could look back and Im sure I could argue that bush was worse.

Bush does have the LOWEST approval rating of any president EVER

Preacher
05-18-2008, 11:24 PM
Thank god.....
But I could look back and Im sure I could argue that bush was worse.

Bush does have the LOWEST approval rating of any president EVER

Approval rating in a heavily political enviroment really doesn't mean much.

30 years from now is when we will start to really undersand W's impact. In the same way, we are just on starting to understand JFK's impact... now that the USSR has fell, now that most of the documents are unclassified...

The same is true of every president.

X-Terminator
05-18-2008, 11:25 PM
Marianne - given our mutual respect over the years I do not want to appear to be ignoring your last post but I am out of here for awhile as far as posting goes

Oh for crying out loud, Dan - are you REALLY going to get your panties in a wad over HTG posting that video? Good grief! For you or anyone else to say that her posting that video somehow says that Obama is "stupid" is a reach at best and an outright lie at worst. I hate to break the news to ya, Dan, but even the smartest people in the world make stupid statements every now and then. It DOES NOT mean they're stupid, nor does it discredit their accomplishments in their lives. You are an educated man, obviously, from your posts, and I'm sure you have made your share of dumb statements over the years. Unless you're Mr. Perfect and have never made a mistake in your life, which I seriously doubt.

Anyway, I know you're reading this. Everyone who says they're "leaving the board" are ALWAYS reading. I have to say I'm completely shocked that you overreacted the way you did. I thought you were above all that. But I guess that's what the election cycle does to some people, and it's why I hate politics to the point where I rarely discuss them. Too many people out there who can't handle someone disagreeing with them or not liking the person they support.

CantStop85
05-19-2008, 12:54 AM
Comparing one slip of the tongue by Obama to Bush's repertoire is ridiculous. You could make a highlight video of all of the idiotic things Bush has said and done over the years...oh wait, people already have.

fpZdv8YBdaE

TA9tOE-2ej8

Preacher
05-19-2008, 01:00 AM
Comparing one slip of the tongue by Obama to Bush's repertoire is ridiculous. You could make a highlight video of all of the idiotic things Bush has said and done over the years...oh wait, people already have.

fpZdv8YBdaE

TA9tOE-2ej8

Give Obama 8 years in the spotlight with the press mercilessly hounding and reporting every slip up. You will see the same thing.

I remember when Rush Limbaugh has his TV show. FUnny thing.. since he got ALL the press feeds, he was able to put Al Gore on... and he sounded MORE like an idiot than Dan Quayle. But the press didn't report it because they didn't have that line already written for him.

Fact is... Anyone at that level of politics are there because they are intelligent enough to get there... some do it by their own campaigning... some are people intelligent, and know how to deal with and work with others to get them there... some are management smart...

it takes all kinds.

X-Terminator
05-19-2008, 05:37 AM
Comparing one slip of the tongue by Obama to Bush's repertoire is ridiculous. You could make a highlight video of all of the idiotic things Bush has said and done over the years...oh wait, people already have.

fpZdv8YBdaE

TA9tOE-2ej8

Do you really think that Bush is the only President to have had an endless supply of flubs, misstatements and slips of the tongue? If you do, then you're pretty frickin' naive. I recall Bill Clinton having his share of them (especially the "slips of the tongue", if you know what I mean), and he's a Rhodes Scholar.

Bottom line is, as I stated before, making a misstatement is not in indication of your intelligence level. If it was, then everyone on this board would have the IQ of drying paint. And someone pointing one of them out is no reason to throw a temper tantrum. Instead, it should be getting a laugh or 3.

TroysBadDawg
05-19-2008, 06:42 AM
Comparing one slip of the tongue by Obama to Bush's repertoire is ridiculous. You could make a highlight video of all of the idiotic things Bush has said and done over the years...oh wait, people already have.

fpZdv8YBdaE

TA9tOE-2ej8

Thank you for showing that the main stream media is biased. CNN reporting? But throwing in something from a comedy skit is low, you need to listen to all of it. And tell me you have not used off color words words when dealing with people that are stubborn. Like me for instance.:hatsoff:

TroysBadDawg
05-19-2008, 06:44 AM
Dang my finger stuttered

TroysBadDawg
05-19-2008, 06:46 AM
Shucks I am like the politicians now, I made a mistake.

Please forgive me, but vote for me anyway.

Send me money for my war chest, lots of money.
LMAO Just kidding for those that don't really know me.

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 06:58 AM
Bush does have the LOWEST approval rating of any president EVER

Having a background in financial analysis one of the main things you do is look for explanations of variances in statsistics. The explanation of this is quite simple in my opinon.

First, the average education level of people in the United States is the lowest it's ever been. Younger people are no longer being educated on how to learn, examine facts and think critically. They are in fact being indocrinated in the waysof the liberals. Our school books have been rewritten with liberal opinions and it is being passed of as fact. The school teachers reinforce this as well.

Then when they grow up they watch CNN, NBC, CBS, etc. and are spoon fed the liberal spin on the facts and only see one side of the story. So the approval rating makes perfect sense imo.

The sad thing about all of this is the goals and tactics of the far right and what is happening in our country is right out of the playbook of the Amercian Communist Party. It's actually written out in black and white. It is almost not even arguable.

What you will find, my friend, is that when Bush is judged by history, he will not go down as a bad president. A great run of economic prosperity and job creation, and war that we are winning because we stayed the course.

stlrtruck
05-19-2008, 08:17 AM
Ok you found the dumb and I found the scary...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zUdjhKbImwE

Godfather
05-19-2008, 09:58 AM
Give Obama 8 years in the spotlight with the press mercilessly hounding and reporting every slip up. You will see the same thing.

I remember when Rush Limbaugh has his TV show. FUnny thing.. since he got ALL the press feeds, he was able to put Al Gore on... and he sounded MORE like an idiot than Dan Quayle. But the press didn't report it because they didn't have that line already written for him.

Fact is... Anyone at that level of politics are there because they are intelligent enough to get there... some do it by their own campaigning... some are people intelligent, and know how to deal with and work with others to get them there... some are management smart...

it takes all kinds.

No, but they DID tell lies about Gore. One of the most famous was the accusation that he lied about Love Story--even though Erich Segal confirmed that Oliver was inspired partly by Gore, and even though the details Gore missed came from the Nashville Tenneseean.

Bush is stupid/Gore exaggerates/Kerry's a flip flopper was the narrative and present-day journalists are too lazy and unprofessional to do anything other than regurgitate someone else's story.

Godfather
05-19-2008, 10:03 AM
First, the average education level of people in the United States is the lowest it's ever been. Younger people are no longer being educated on how to learn, examine facts and think critically. They are in fact being indocrinated in the ways of the liberals. Our school books have been rewritten with liberal opinions and it is being passed of as fact. The school teachers reinforce this as well.


Sorry, but that's the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.

I was in a class at Tulane University once, and one of the few older students in the clas made a similar claim about the anti-Americanism being taught in public schools today. Out of about 50 students in the class, NOT ONE knew what the hell he was talking about. And Tulane draws its students nationally.

Out of all the teachers and professors I've had, I couldn't tell you the first thing about the political preferences of most of them. I had one professor at Tulane who disliked politicians in general. When I was in graduate school at LSU I got to know the profs better on a personal level so I do know more about their preferences, and there was roughly an equal number of Republicans and Democrats, and even the Democrats were well within the mainstream.

Godfather
05-19-2008, 10:04 AM
Thank god.....
But I could look back and Im sure I could argue that bush was worse.

Bush does have the LOWEST approval rating of any president EVER

Eh, I'd have to say Carter was worse. We don't have double digit mortgage rates or inflation or unemployment. Even if you give Carter a partial pass because of the mess he inherited, he was still worse than W.

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 10:21 AM
Godfather

Sorry, but that's the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.

What SPECIFICALLY are you saying is a load of bull?

Out of all the teachers and professors I've had, I couldn't tell you the first thing about the political preferences of most of them.

Exactly when were you in school?

Godfather
05-19-2008, 10:47 AM
What SPECIFICALLY are you saying is a load of bull?



Exactly when were you in school?

The part I quoted is a load of bull, other than the part about critical thinking skills. Average education levels are higher, not lower, than in the past. Students are not being indoctrinated with liberalism. School books are not passing off opinion as fact. Teachers are not reinforcing any kind of Marxist indoctrination.

I graduated from high school in 1993 and college in 1997, and those false claims were being made back then.

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 11:00 AM
So before we start discussing this, can I assume you are not disagreeing with my comparisons of the far right and American Communist Party?

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 11:02 AM
I was in a class at Tulane University once, and one of the few older students in the class made a similar claim about the anti-Americanism being taught in public schools today. Out of about 50 students in the class, NOT ONE knew what the hell he was talking about. And Tulane draws its students nationally.

If you think about it Godfather, that actually proves my point as much as it disproves it....you just see it from a different perspective than me, that's all.

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 11:14 AM
Average education levels are higher, not lower, than in the past.

Again, this is a difference of opinion. It is only natural for someone like you with a high degree of education achieved to focus on the degree achieved. What I am talking about is that people coming out of college and high school are far less educated based on testing than they were years ago. Again, it is a difference of opinion. Not a load of bull.

Godfather
05-19-2008, 11:15 AM
So before we start discussing this, can I assume you are not disagreeing with my comparisons of the far right and American Communist Party?

Not disagreeing at all. A lot of people who study politics believe the political spectrum is shaped like a horseshoe--Nazis and Communists would be essentially the same, rather than polar opposites.

Godfather
05-19-2008, 11:24 AM
If you think about it Godfather, that actually proves my point as much as it disproves it....you just see it from a different perspective than me, that's all.

Well, the older student used specific examples that had no bearing on reality, not just claiming a general worldview was being taught. I think there are isolated cases out there where students are being taught opinion disguised as fact but they're rare, and people with hidden agendas are trumpeting them to make the general public believe those cases are the norm.

The history I learned in college and high schol, if anything, was too far in the opposite direction--ie too heavy on who and what and when, and not enough analysis and interpretation. That could be the teachers/profs making sure their opinions didn't get into the lectures.

One of the most interesting opinion pieces I read for a class was entitled "Being Green Isn't Always What It Seems". It was passed out the first day of an environmental economics class and questioned the environmental benefits of recycling. The point was to remind us to always challenge our assumptions and make sure they're justified.

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 11:37 AM
My thoughts godfather is that the move towards socialism has been gradual and over a long period of time. Primarily over the last 50 years. If you look at last years school book vs. this years, you might notice a little less about communism being discussed for instance but nothing that jumps out at you. But if you took a school book from the 50's and compared it to todays book, there would be a stark contrast imo. So if a teacher is liberal (from my perspective) all they have to do is follow the book and they are teaching liberalism. So it would not appear to the casual observer that they are biased or opinionated. I think what I am going to do when I have some time is see if I can find some information on this. I think this is a good discussion. The best that can happen is we might learn something.....the worst of course would me be proven wrong. *chuckle*

TroysBadDawg
05-19-2008, 12:16 PM
Godfather in my opinion what you are saying is full of horse pucky, You were educated by draft dodgers, who stayed in school rather than fight for their country and go to Nam. You are the product of liberalism and the students today are the same.

Today the schools are teaching students how to pass the tests and not how to think. They want all students to be equal, even though some are more advanced than others. They want pencil boxes made out of all students even though some would be better violins and some better end tables, while others would be better sawdust. They want pencil boxes made from all.

You say that you were a student of the late 90's well I got anther BS in ED in 97 and it was almost unbearable liberal then, what was being taught in the ivory halls.

Don't hurt their minds, no losers, make them all winners. Well with three Masters in Engineering (starting in the 60's) and working in the real world, there are winners and losers. Few people get something for nothing unless of course you’re on welfare.
We now have 4 and 5 generations on welfare and no end in site. Do you really think they want a job when they can sit at home and eat as well as those working, even better than some? Free housing, free medical, all paid for by those working. Now the government wants to give illegal’s access to Social Security that the Government says is broke to start with.

They are forcing this country into civil unrest so they can then declare martial law, take away all arms, and then impose pure socialism, communism, what ever you want to call it.

Call me a dooms seer, but I see it coming, and the people who are turning a blind eye to it are part of the problem.

It is time to take back the government, away from special interest, away from lobbyist, and give it back to the people who pay taxes, and are here legally.

Do you realize the following laws maybe should be in place here:

1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.

2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.

3. All government business will be conducted in our language.

4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter
how long they are here.

5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare,
no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance
programs. Any burden will be deported.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted.
Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted & when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.


SOUND REASONABLE AND DEFINITIVE?

CONGRATULATIONS TO MEXICO, THESE ARE THEIR LAWS! (No kidding!)

Godfather
05-19-2008, 12:37 PM
Godfather in my opinion what you are saying is full of horse pucky, You were educated by draft dodgers, who stayed in school rather than fight for their country and go to Nam. You are the product of liberalism and the students today are the same.


You know absolutely NOTHING about my teachers and professors and your personal attacks on them are disgraceful. I also would love to know how you can possibly think you know what I saw firsthand better than I do. I would love to know how you know my textbook and lecture materials better than I do. Please give me the names and ages of these "liberals". Please supply their campaign contribution records. Please supply one shred of evidence for that ridiculous claim.


Today the schools are teaching students how to pass the tests and not how to think. They want all students to be equal, even though some are more advanced than others. They want pencil boxes made out of all students even though some would be better violins and some better end tables, while others would be better sawdust. They want pencil boxes made from all.


That's true and it has nothing to do with ideology. What did you expect to happen when accountability was based on test scores? Simple economics...more students will pass if you teach to the test. If you teach actual useful skills, more students will fail the test and you lose your funding and maybe your job.

The rest of your post is on a different tangent.

GBMelBlount
05-19-2008, 12:58 PM
That's true and it has nothing to do with ideology. What did you expect to happen when accountability was based on test scores? Simple economics...more students will pass if you teach to the test. If you teach actual useful skills, more students will fail the test

I agree. This is the best solution if you look at the short term and assume the end justify the means, not factoring what's best for the individual of course. What's sad is as some of these kids get older, the teachers inheriting these kids must just shake there heads and wonder what the heck to do. Also, alot of kids these days don't have the benefits of the same family structure that alot of us did growing up.

Godfather
05-19-2008, 01:04 PM
It is time to take back the government, away from special interest, away from lobbyist, and give it back to the people who pay taxes, and are here legally.

Do you realize the following laws maybe should be in place here:

1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.

2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.

3. All government business will be conducted in our language.

4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter
how long they are here.

5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare,
no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance
programs. Any burden will be deported.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted.
Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted & when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.


SOUND REASONABLE AND DEFINITIVE?

CONGRATULATIONS TO MEXICO, THESE ARE THEIR LAWS! (No kidding!)

My opinions on those laws:

1) Sounds politically correct but it's stupid. If you want to assimilate recent immigrants you're going to have to have programs to help them learn English.

2-3) Common sense. You have to be a citizen to vote and the citizenship test is in English. Plus the candidates' names are the same anyway.

4-5) Total garbage. (Even if #5 would disqualify two of the worst governors in the country.) The whole point of this country is that it's founded on ideas and not bloodlines.

6) Not a bad idea. You shouldn't come here unless you're looking for work and/or freedom from oppression and persecution.

7-8) Utterly moronic. We have a global economy whether we like it or not. If we turn away foreign investment and limit foreign property rights we'll just hamstring our economy.

9) Bad idea. The answer to speech you don't like is more speech.

10) Come in illegally and I'm all for kicking you out. It'll be a massive undertaking, but at a bare minimum we should kick out the criminal element.

Of course, as a general rule we should want to be less like Mexico, not more like Mexico. There's a reason people are willing to cross hundreds of miles of desert to get out of there.

Godfather
05-19-2008, 01:09 PM
I agree. This is the best solution if you look at the short term and assume the end justify the means, not factoring what's best for the individual of course. What's sad is as some of these kids get older, the teachers inheriting these kids must just shake there heads and wonder what the heck to do.

What's sad is students are missing out on some awesome learning projects. I've heard of cases where schools dropped astronomy or art and music because they needed the time to prepare for testing. I still remember an English project in elementary school where everyone started a story and then passed it to the next person so each one was a joint project. It was awesome, but I bet they don't do things like that anymore.

NCLB is a scheme to make everyone mediocre...it's like W was the party animal who resented the smart kids and is getting back at them. And it's bipartisan, since W let that fat drunk from Massachusetts have a big say in how NCLB ultimately looked.

Dino 6 Rings
05-19-2008, 04:35 PM
NCLB is supposed to be inforced and regulated by the States as opposed to the Federal Government. The States were given Guidelines that they were to follow and then the States made their own changes and decisions.

Now the NCLB has Not been a total failure, although there are some areas that need improvement, including, more specialty classes. Currently, my kids only get Music and Art once a week. Those classes should be every day. Especially Art. The School hours need to be extended, to stop kids from having lunch at 10am, and the Teachers need to be held to higher standards. But right now, I'm pretty happy with the education my kids, 8 and 10 are receiving at their schools, and when I help them with their homework, I can't lie, some of the math stuff gets me confused. How many ounces in a gallon again? Dang it.

the best thing any parent can do for the kids, is to be involved themselves. Get to know the teachers, visit your kids at school, have lunch with them once in a while, participate in the after school programs, nothing is quite as nice as 30 4th graders playing a recorder concert. My ears still hurt from that. But its important. You have to inject yourself into their lives. (By the way, I'll not be on the Forum this Friday because I'll be a Parent Helper at my kids Field Day activities. Using a Vacation day to do it, but the kids are worth it.)

Don't blame the Government for your child's education. Push them to do their best, study with them, read to them and interact with them. That's what people need to do.

GBMelBlount
05-20-2008, 09:16 PM
Godfather, following up on our discussion I googled "socialism public schools" and the third thing that came up explains my belief about what is happening to our schools and country because of social indoctrination. This does not show specific examples but I pretty much agree with everything in here and would enjoy discussing it. It may take me longer to find specific examples. I hate posting lengthy articles but here it goes:

http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2001/sept01/socialism.shtml

Why Our Schools Teach Socialism

By Joe Larson
Marxism and Humanism are the predominant philosophies of America's education establishment, yet every day we send the public schools our most precious gift, our children, to be "educated."

Our schools are filled with sex education, political correctness, environmental extremism, global unity, diversity training (pro-gay indoctrination), and "higher-order thinking skills" boldly claiming that, in order to become a higher order thinker, one must first believe absolutely that there are no absolutes!

Our schools are filled with violence, murder, extortion, rape, unwanted pregnancy, drug use, disrespect, and foul language. Test scores have been declining for decades as the numbers of children who cannot read continue to increase.

While the pontificators wonder why this is so, many parents and citizens have figured it out. Although earth worship, paganism and the occult flourish in public schools, the Greatest Story Ever Told, based on the greatest book ever written, the Holy Bible, which tells of the greatest teacher who ever lived, Jesus Christ, is not used or even allowed. The Bible was America's first textbook, but today it is referred to as a collection of fables.

America's educational system began to decline with the introduction of socialism, given impetus by the increasing involvement of the federal government. Lenin said: "Communism is socialism in a hurry." Socialism, therefore, is Communism by gradualism rather than by revolution. The socialist "Fabian Society," forerunner of most socialist groups in America, had as its motto "Make Haste Slowly."

"Democratic socialism" became the battle cry for socializing the United States. The goal was to "permeate and penetrate," then control from within. The socialists' first target was education, and they attacked with deceitful language. There were no badges or socialist labels; followers described themselves as "liberal," "progressive," and even "moderate." Words were the weapon of choice in this new war. By changing the meanings of words, socialists concealed their true purpose.

This massive social engineering was carried out under the banners of "reform" and "social justice." These innovations are in the public interest, Americans were told. They promote true democracy, humanitarianism, and, of course are "for the children." The buzzwords of socialism were and still are "social" and "democracy" (i.e. social science, social studies and socialization of the child).

In the early 1900s, unrest in Europe brought thousands of socialists to America. Many held degrees in psychology, sociology and psychiatry (the behavioral sciences) and a number of them became university professors.

Norman Thomas, a socialist and member of the American Civil Liberties Union, boldly told the world: "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

John Dewey, known as "the father of modern education," was an avowed socialist and the co-author of the "Humanist Manifesto." The U.S. House Committee on Un-American Activities discovered that he belonged to 15 Marxist front organizations. Dewey taught the professors who trained America's teachers. Obsessed with "the group," he said, "You can't make socialists out of individualists. Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society, which is coming, where everyone is interdependent."

Author Rosalie Gordon, writing about Dewey's progressive (socialist) education in her book What's Happened To Our Schools, said: "The progressive system has reached all the way down to the lowest grades to prepare the children of America for their role as the collectivists of the future. The group - not the individual child - is the quintessence of progressivism. The child must always be made to feel part of the group. He must indulge in group thinking and group activity."

After visiting the Soviet Union, Dewey wrote six articles on the "wonders" of Soviet education. The School-To-Work program, now in our public schools in all 50 states, is modeled after the Soviet poly-technical system.

In 1936, the National Education Association stated the position from which it has never wavered: "We stand for socializing the individual." The NEA, in its Policy For American Education, opined: "The major problem of education in our times arises out of the fact that we live in a period of fundamental social change. In the new democracy [what happened to our republic?], education must share in the responsibility of giving purpose and direction to social change. The major function of the school is the social orientation of the individual . . . Education must operate according to a well-formulated social policy."

NEA specialist Paul Haubner, tells us, "The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; . that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values."

Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard, had this to say: "Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future."

Some politicians agree. Former Nebraska state senator Peter Hoagland said: "Fundamentalist parents have no right to indoctrinate their children in their beliefs. We are preparing their children for the year 2000 and life in a global one-world society and those children will not fit in."

In the Humanist Magazine, Jan./Feb 1983, John Dunphy wrote: "The battle for mankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom . The classroom must and will become the arena of conflict between the old and the new . the rotting corpse of Christianity and the new faith of humanism."

Bureaucrats, politicians and educators regularly appear on television blaming either parents or lack of funds for the failure of our schools. Their prescription is always the same: more money and more government control. For well over 50 years, American voters have fallen for these fallacies. Victor Gollancz, a famous socialist publisher, explained why he believed that socialism would take over America: "Christians are not exactly bright, so it will be easy for socialism to lead them down the garden path through their ideals of brotherly love and 'social justice.'"

It's time for Christians to stand up for their families and their faith and put God in charge of this nation and its schools. Restoring America is that simple.

Joseph R. Larson is Board Chairman of the pro-family organization Restoring America (www.restoringamerica.org). He is a frequent guest on talk radio and has written articles on China, education and the Constitution for newspapers across the country.

Big D
05-21-2008, 09:09 AM
It amazes me how anyone can say bush is a good president. When he took office crude oil was 28 dollars a barrel, for those of you scoring at home crude oil at this moment is 129.69. People are having to make the choice of eating or putting fuel in their cars.
I'm in the food buisness and what most consumers dont realize is they are paying more for less. More and more food packaging has been down sized. Everything from ice cream to chips to even cheese. While prices continue to rise. So americans are paying more for less right now. So I say what is the big deal of an Obama blunder. How many blunders has bush had in the seven years he has been in office. Whether it be going into iraq or being in bed with the oil companys

fansince'76
05-21-2008, 09:18 AM
It amazes me how anyone can say bush is a good president. When he took office crude oil was 28 dollars a barrel, for those of you scoring at home crude oil at this moment is 129.69.

I'm no fan of Bush, but he is not responsible for that rise. I think massive industrialization and modernization efforts in both China and India increasing the demand for Middle East crude has a lot more to do with it. Not to mention our "friends" the Saudis and their recent refusal to increase production more than just a token amount on their end. Factor in laws right here at home that cripple any efforts we try to make to tap into our own resources here at home and increase our refining capacity, and that leaves us even more at the mercy of OPEC.

Big D
05-21-2008, 09:22 AM
I'm no fan of Bush, but he is not responsible for that rise. I think massive industrialization and modernization efforts in both China and India increasing the demand for Middle East crude has a lot more to do with it. Not to mention our "friends" the Saudis and their recent refusal to increase production more than just a token amount on their end. Factor in laws right here at home that cripple any efforts we try to make to tap into our own resources here at home and increase our refining capacity, and that leaves us even more at the mercy of OPEC.

I agree that saudi hasn't done enough production. I think junior needs to remind saudi what america did in the first gulf war.

GBMelBlount
05-21-2008, 09:51 AM
It amazes me how anyone can say bush is a good president. When he took office crude oil was 28 dollars a barrel, for those of you scoring at home crude oil at this moment is 129.69.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that you are merely stating a correlation and trying to pas it off as the major causal factor. So what I'd like to know is how much of this do you feel is Bush's fault and exactly why?

MACH1
05-21-2008, 10:09 AM
When Katrina hit and gas prices went thru the roof because of damaged refineries I guess that was Bush's fault too?

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:16 PM
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that you are merely stating a correlation and trying to pas it off as the major causal factor. So what I'd like to know is how much of this do you feel is Bush's fault and exactly why?

so you think record profits and 100 dollar a barrel increase in 8 years has nothing to do with a oil man president?

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:17 PM
When Katrina hit and gas prices went thru the roof because of damaged refineries I guess that was Bush's fault too?

gas prices were going through the roof long before katrina

GBMelBlount
05-21-2008, 12:21 PM
so you think record profits and 100 dollar a barrel increase in 8 years has nothing to do with a oil man president?

Yes. Worst case, he has very little to do with it imo. That is why your statement is so puzzling and I am trying to understand what facts you are basing this on. :noidea:

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:28 PM
Yes. Worst case, he has very little to do with it imo. That is why your statement is so puzzling and I am trying to understand what facts you are basing this on. :noidea:

it's funny to me that's all. Oil man president takes over. Next thing you know there are record profiting oil companies.

GBMelBlount
05-21-2008, 12:31 PM
Let me ask you big D, do you give president bush a positive or negative rating for his job performance as president.

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:35 PM
Let me ask you big D, do you give president bush a positive or negative rating for his job performance as president.

A very negative rating. I would throw him in the mix with carter as the worst president this country has ever seen

fansince'76
05-21-2008, 12:36 PM
gas prices were going through the roof long before katrina

Yep. Guess when the article the following excerpt was taken from was written?

WASHINGTON -- Gas prices have surged in the past 12 months, experiencing their biggest dollar increase in the past 30 years, according to a survey conducted for AAA.

2 weeks ago? A month ago? Six months ago? Nope.

































It was written on March 14, 2000 - about 10 months before Dubya moved into the White House.

Gas Prices Rising (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/03/14/gas.price.whining/)

GBMelBlount
05-21-2008, 12:37 PM
A very negative rating. I would throw him in the mix with carter as the worst president this country has ever seen

I consider you a case in point, and a good example of my assertions in my earlier discussion with BBFW and godfather about my beliefs as to why President Bush has the lowest approval rating in history. I have clearly stated earlier in this thread that in my opinion, our younger people are the least educated ever and what they do learn is social indoctrination. That coupled with the liberal spin on the news coverage by the left wing media and it is a recipe for disaster. People forming opinions such as you have with little or no basis in fact.

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:43 PM
I consider you a case in point, and a good example of my assertions in my earlier discussion with Millwall and godfather about my beliefs as to why President Bush has the lowest approval rating in history. I have clearly stated earlier in this thread that in my opinion, our younger people are the least educated ever and what they do learn is social indoctrination. That coupled with the liberal spin on the news coverage by the left wing media and it is a recipe for disaster. People forming opinions such as you have with little or no basis in fact.

are you freaking kidding me? No fact huh. Must be a republican right? Is the dollar at an all time low? where are those weapons of mass destruction? how is that forclosure rate looking these days? do you want me to go on?

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:45 PM
Yep. Guess when the article the following excerpt was taken from was written?



2 weeks ago? A month ago? Six months ago? Nope.

































It was written on March 14, 2000 - about 10 months before Dubya moved into the White House.

Gas Prices Rising (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/03/14/gas.price.whining/)



gas prices at 1.54? that must have really sucked. I so much like spending the 4 dollars a gallon i spent this morning

fansince'76
05-21-2008, 12:47 PM
gas prices at 1.54? that must have really sucked. I so much like spending the 4 dollars a gallon i spent this morning

When you're used to spending about .99 per gallon, yes, $1.54 is a jolt. Not my point. Energy prices, and gas prices in particular, have been rising quite regularly even before Dubya became president. Fact. Think we got to $4 a gallon overnight?

Big D
05-21-2008, 12:50 PM
When you're used to spending about .99 per gallon, yes, $1.54 is a jolt. Not my point. Energy prices, and gas prices in particular, have been rising quite regularly even before Dubya became president. Fact. Think we got to $4 a gallon overnight?

no it was about an 8 year process. Funny how that works.

GBMelBlount
05-21-2008, 12:54 PM
are you freaking kidding me? No fact huh. Must be a republican right? Is the dollar at an all time low? where are those weapons of mass destruction? how is that forclosure rate looking these days? do you want me to go on?

I am a conservative. Again, you are stating correlations. There is a proven positive correlation between the shortness of miniskirts and the rise in stock prices. It doesn't make it causal, that is the key. You can rant all you want, however it poorly reflects on you and lessens your credibility. I never said Bush was perfect. Certainly there are things that may be his fault to varying degrees. But I'd rather you pick one thing so we can focus on it, discuss it and hopefully all come away from the discussion as respectful friends and learn something.

Dino 6 Rings
05-21-2008, 01:17 PM
Who was this thread started about anyway?

stlrtruck
05-21-2008, 01:46 PM
Who was this thread started about anyway?

You don't expect threads to stay on task during the off-season do you?

HometownGal
05-21-2008, 02:27 PM
Who was this thread started about anyway?

:toofunny::toofunny:

Bush may have done some questionable things during his 2 terms in office, but at least he knows how many states there are in the country he presides over. :laughing:

millwalldavey
05-21-2008, 02:46 PM
It doesn't take intelligence to be the president of law review... just relationships. you have other people to do the hard work.

Exactly! Thats how some people got though Yale.

millwalldavey
05-21-2008, 02:47 PM
:toofunny::toofunny:

Bush may have done some questionable things during his 2 terms in office, but at least he knows how many states there are in the country he presides over. :laughing:

Are you sure about that?

HometownGal
05-21-2008, 02:49 PM
Are you sure about that?

Well - if he didn't, he was smart enough not to make it public knowledge. :thumbsup: