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View Full Version : It's Unanimous


steelymcmatt
05-20-2008, 10:29 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhH6kCo..lsPJUgHhp.5bqI5nYcB?slug=ap-nfllabor&prov=ap&type=lgns

It appears all 32 teams have opted out of the CBA and that 2011 will be an uncapped year unless something gets done before then. The fact that is unanimous makes it seem more like a negotiating tactic than anything else.....

fansince'76
05-20-2008, 10:43 AM
Owners also say profits have declined because of economic conditions.

Gotta call :bs: on that one.

NFL sets regular-season paid attendance record

Posted: 01/03/2008

NFL Sets Attendance Record (http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=F0D93B1A6EB1CD95A101EBF96E19AC86? id=09000d5d805b5d53&template=without-video&confirm=true)

Bottom line is the owners think the players are getting too much of the pie. This is going to get ugly. Very ugly.

BettisFan
05-20-2008, 10:44 AM
great looks like strike year in 2012....

stlrtruck
05-20-2008, 11:07 AM
Yeah I don't understand how they aren't making a good profit. Although the players are getting 60% the owners raise ticket prices and merchandise prices...food and beverage are out of the world inside a stadium - I mean really $8 for a beer that costs less than $1 - what the freak? Besides owners also get revenue from the use of the stadium from outside venues - college games, concerts, etc.

Here we go - the fans getting screwed AGAIN!

Dino 6 Rings
05-20-2008, 11:16 AM
I'm so happy we signed our Franchise QB to a long term deal already!

lilyoder6
05-20-2008, 11:39 AM
hopefully they can get a new deal done that makes it that avg players aren't getting paid like superstar money like how it is now... the saleries 4 rookies are getting higher as well b4 they even play 1 snap

steelreserve
05-20-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm still not too worried about the prospects of one uncapped year, or even two. It's pretty unlikely that many star players would tear up a long-term contract at $8 million a year, to go be a mercenary for the Redskins for a season.

Or that an owner would suddenly start handing out $17-million-a-year long-term deals to linemen, when they all know the cap could come right back in effect at any time.

Or that a player would take a deal like that unless it was guaranteed the contract would be honored even if the salary cap came back. Or that an owner would offer a contract unless he could weasel out of it in the event that the cap did return.

Basically, the threat of a cap will keep everything in check for a couple years. And if there's no cap, long-term security will keep it in check for the players, and durability concerns will keep it in check for the owners. Yes, it'll be at a more expensive level, but it's not the sky-is-falling scenario everyone worries about.

RoethlisBURGHer
05-20-2008, 02:52 PM
1. The unanimous stance on it is a barganing chip. It makes it look like all the owners are standing together. We all know however, that they are not totally together.

Guys like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder don't want a salary cap. However owners like Dan Rooney, Ralph Wilson, Randy Lerner, and other smaller market owners do want a salary cap.

2. A big thing that's gonna be brought up is rookie salaries. Rookies are making an ungodly amount of money and they haven't even proven that they can play in the league. I think this is part of the reason the owners opted out, they want a cap on rookie salaries.

3. The players do get a large peice of the pie...they are the ones that put their health on the line so people will watch the product. They deserve the money they get. That won't change...but it'll help the owners problems of the above rookie salaries are put in check.

I doubt we'll see an uncapped year or a owners lockout. The owners cant let it get that far...if it gets to a lockout they are likley to lose fans, and therefore lose lots of money.

atlsteelers
05-20-2008, 03:44 PM
Almost all of the players deserve what they get. Football is a brutal game and i think the average player only plays in the league for 3 years. The owners are banking it big time.

millwalldavey
05-20-2008, 03:56 PM
All power to the workers. In this case the Players. They make a ton of money, but they also make a ton more for the owners.

I think there has to be some kind of rookie cap and some kind of cap.

fansince'76
05-20-2008, 04:04 PM
Greed is going to ruin the NFL just like it did MLB. It's inevitable. I just hope the Steelers can win one more SB before they become the Pirates of the NFL.

The Duke
05-20-2008, 04:06 PM
1. The unanimous stance on it is a barganing chip. It makes it look like all the owners are standing together. We all know however, that they are not totally together.

Guys like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder don't want a salary cap. However owners like Dan Rooney, Ralph Wilson, Randy Lerner, and other smaller market owners do want a salary cap.

2. A big thing that's gonna be brought up is rookie salaries. Rookies are making an ungodly amount of money and they haven't even proven that they can play in the league. I think this is part of the reason the owners opted out, they want a cap on rookie salaries.

3. The players do get a large peice of the pie...they are the ones that put their health on the line so people will watch the product. They deserve the money they get. That won't change...but it'll help the owners problems of the above rookie salaries are put in check.

I doubt we'll see an uncapped year or a owners lockout. The owners cant let it get that far...if it gets to a lockout they are likley to lose fans, and therefore lose lots of money.

very good points:thumbsup:

rookie salaries are out of control, and I'm glad that may be fixed. but if this goes as far as a lockout I'd be very disappointed in the league. no one wants to see the cowbous buy a super bowl either

Greed is going to ruin the NFL just like it did MLB. It's inevitable. I just hope the Steelers can win one more SB before they become the Pirates of the NFL.

hopefully. I just couldn't watch the nfl if it became like the mlb

lilyoder6
05-20-2008, 04:10 PM
yeah matt ryan just signed a 6 yr deal worth 72 mill and a 34.75 mi guareented

steelreserve
05-20-2008, 05:07 PM
Greed is going to ruin the NFL just like it did MLB. It's inevitable. I just hope the Steelers can win one more SB before they become the Pirates of the NFL.
Why is the baseball analogy such a go-to argument in any conversation about the salary cap? It simply doesn't work that way.

Do I have to keep posting all the statistics showing how mid-payroll teams are still the ones who make it to (and win) the World Series most often? Baseball didn't get "ruined" by money; it's just easy to have a selective memory that makes us think that's what happened. In any given year, something like 7 of the top 10 teams in payroll don't even make the MLB playoffs. When's the last time the Yankees won anything?

The end of the salary cap wouldn't be the end of the world, and the Steelers would not be like the Pirates. I think that if anything, baseball should prove that. Teams like the A's and Diamondbacks show that if you're smart, you'll be in the hunt whether you have a ton of money or not. Teams like the Mets and Dodgers show you that you can have a lot of money and be stupid, and still miss the playoffs.

Teams like the Pirates and Royals fail year after year because they not only don't have money, they're also incompetent. The Steelers wouldn't run into that problem. I am not concerned.

fansince'76
05-20-2008, 05:27 PM
The Steelers wouldn't run into that problem.

They already did as far as the money (or lack thereof) was concerned - it was called the '90s. Yes, we cobbled some very good teams together at the time, but we came up short year after year after year primarily because we simply could not afford a top-flight QB, and on top of that, we lost our best players year in and year out through the revolving door that was on the clubhouse at the time before Heinz Field was built. I don't care to relive the early years of unfettered free agency when we were good but never good enough, and more than that, never able to be good enough because of a lack of cash. And it would be that much worse in a completely uncapped league. The Rooneys would simply not be able to compete with the Joneses, Snyders and Krafts of the league. Multimillionaire owners vs. Multibillionaire owners - not much of a contest in picking the winners out of that matchup.

Speaking of the good ol' days, here is an excerpt of an article from February 18, 1997 - mainly for the younger folks here who may think my earlier "revolving door" reference to the clubhouse was an exaggeration:

Bettis, the league's No. 3 rusher last season with 1,431 yards, is the first starter to re-sign with the Steelers in the five years of free agency. Until yesterday, they had lost 20 of 22 free agents, re-signing only the backups Fred McAfee and Jerry Olsavsky.

Steelers Finally Resign One of Their Own (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A04E7DE1E3FF93BA25751C0A9619582 60)

An uncapped NFL? With sharks like Snyder and Jones involved? Thanks, but no thanks.

steelreserve
05-20-2008, 06:13 PM
They already did as far as the money (or lack thereof) was concerned - it was called the '90s. Yes, we cobbled some very good teams together at the time, but we came up short year after year after year primarily because we simply could not afford a top-flight QB, and on top of that, we lost our best players year in and year out through the revolving door that was on the clubhouse at the time before Heinz Field was built.

Sure, that was a problem, but guess what? It still is.

We still cobble together very good teams but come up short year after year, and we still lose our best players to free agency. The only difference is that we're not losing our players to some greedy owner we can shake our fists at -- the salary cap just strips us of our free agents by rule, and we lose them to some team who's dumb enough to overpay. I don't see any fundamental change in the outcome, just the method by which it happens.

As far as overall success -- in the regular season or the playoffs -- we're not doing much better after the cap than we were before. Only difference is that we won the Super Bowl when we went to it and lost it in the '90s.

Edman
05-20-2008, 06:14 PM
The prosperous days of the NFL may be coming to an end.

The Steelers better win now while they can. Before we start seeing the same old teams buy their ways to multiple championships in the 2010's.

fansince'76
05-20-2008, 06:19 PM
Sure, that was a problem, but guess what? It still is.

We still cobble together very good teams but come up short year after year, and we still lose our best players to free agency. The only difference is that we're not losing our players to some greedy owner we can shake our fists at -- the salary cap just strips us of our free agents by rule, and we lose them to some team who's dumb enough to overpay. I don't see any fundamental change in the outcome, just the method by which it happens.

As far as overall success -- in the regular season or the playoffs -- we're not doing much better after the cap than we were before. Only difference is that we won the Super Bowl when we went to it and lost it in the '90s.

If we had Ben during our Blitzburgh D days of '93 - '95, we'd have at least 2 more Lombardis in the case. I think that's the primary difference. We went 15-1 and 11-5 in '04 and '05 with, at least IMO, defenses that weren't nearly as strong as the one we had in '94 and '95, but for a change, we had a legit QB. I don't think we lose our best players to FA anymore - not at that rate - 20 out of 22 over a 5-year span? If we were still operating like we were (which at the time was out of financial necessity) in '96, Troy would already be gone and Ben would have one foot out the door already.

steelreserve
05-20-2008, 08:20 PM
If we had Ben during our Blitzburgh D days of '93 - '95, we'd have at least 2 more Lombardis in the case. I think that's the primary difference. We went 15-1 and 11-5 in '04 and '05 with, at least IMO, defenses that weren't nearly as strong as the one we had in '94 and '95, but for a change, we had a legit QB. I don't think we lose our best players to FA anymore - not at that rate - 20 out of 22 over a 5-year span? If we were still operating like we were (which at the time was out of financial necessity) in '96, Troy would already be gone and Ben would have one foot out the door already.

I definitely agree with you that our defenses were better in the '90s than they are today. And Ben makes a huge difference. But we didn't get Ben because of the salary cap -- star quarterbacks are just rare enough that it really can take 15 years to find one. I also don't think we'd have let him get away if there was no salary cap. There's a limit to what even Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder would offer one player.

Bottom line, before the salary cap, we let a lot of players go, but we did manage to keep enough key guys when we needed them to stay competitive. And we still lose key guys to the cap even today. Look at some of the starters we've lost over the past 2-3 years just because we can't afford them:

- Porter
- Von Olhoeffen
- Haggans
- Hope
- Tuman
- Faneca
- Burress
- Bell (sort of)
- Randle El

If you ask me, it's every bit as bad now as it was then, just for different reasons.

I don't think the salary cap has done anything to stop the drain of talent from top-tier teams. It seems like the effect has been mostly to penalize stupid teams like the 49ers, Raiders, Jets and Lions extra hard when they blow a ton of money on mediocre free agents.

fansince'76
05-20-2008, 08:27 PM
I definitely agree with you that our defenses were better in the '90s than they are today. And Ben makes a huge difference. But we didn't get Ben because of the salary cap -- star quarterbacks are just rare enough that it really can take 15 years to find one. I also don't think we'd have let him get away if there was no salary cap. There's a limit to what even Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder would offer one player.

Bottom line, before the salary cap, we let a lot of players go, but we did manage to keep enough key guys when we needed them to stay competitive. And we still lose key guys to the cap even today. Look at some of the starters we've lost over the past 2-3 years just because we can't afford them:

- Porter
- Von Olhoeffen
- Haggans
- Hope
- Tuman
- Faneca
- Burress
- Bell (sort of)
- Randle El

If you ask me, it's every bit as bad now as it was then, just for different reasons.

I don't think the salary cap has done anything to stop the drain of talent from top-tier teams. It seems like the effect has been mostly to penalize stupid teams like the 49ers, Raiders, Jets and Lions extra hard when they blow a ton of money on mediocre free agents.

Good point about the 49ers - they played fast and loose with the cap in the early years of unfettered free agency themselves and paid dearly for it. If worse comes to worse, I really do hope the Rooneys can stay competitive. However, like you pointed out, the Rooneys KNOW what they're doing when it comes to running a team - Jones and Snyder are meddling fools who spend money like drunken sailors. Thanks - I feel better now. :thumbsup:

steelreserve
05-20-2008, 08:41 PM
Good point about the 49ers - they played fast and loose with the cap in the early years of unfettered free agency themselves and paid dearly for it. If worse comes to worse, I really do hope the Rooneys can stay competitive. However, like you pointed out, the Rooneys KNOW what they're doing when it comes to running a team - Jones and Snyder are meddling fools who spend money like drunken sailors. Thanks - I feel better now. :thumbsup:

Yeah, smarts will help us in a huge way -- and having a brand-new stadium and one of the biggest/most loyal fan bases in the league can't hurt either. Let me put it this way: I don't think we'll ever run the risk of turning into the Cardinals or the Lions.

The 49ers have got to be the textbook example of how the cap penalizes stupidity. They actually managed to hold it together in the early years of the cap because Eddie DeBartolo and his staff were right up there with the smartest in the league, so they knew how to stay just a half-step ahead of the cap. Then as soon as his brother-in-law (who didn't know squat about football) took away control of the team, they blew wads of cash on people they shouldn't have, ended up with a ton of dead money, and drove off any talented players and coaches because that was just a bad environment for football.

Basically, the whole franchise went into a free-fall, and as a fan, I got to watch it all unfold right in front of me. And despite the fact that the salary cap is supposed to help bad teams get better, the Niners have stayed right near the bottom because they continue to make dumb moves. I cannot emphasize how much the salary cap magnifies the penalty for dumb moves.

Anyway, I really don't think the Steelers are in any danger of falling into that boat. You can just tell they know better.

KeiselPower99
05-20-2008, 08:52 PM
On Sirius they was talking about this and having an uncapped year changes contracts also. Its gonna be 4 years for Restricted Free Agents and 6 for Rookie deals. Ross Tucker said the dues are roughly 1500 a year/month(Cant Remember) and its not hardly used for any good. And with this being optioned out the owners and veterns can rework certain parts of the cba (rookie contracts and health benefits to retired players) Cause neither are happy where things stand now.

Galax Steeler
05-21-2008, 05:05 AM
I just hope a deal can be reached and we will not have an uncapped year.