PDA

View Full Version : Cut Mahan some slack


moedap
06-16-2008, 09:55 AM
He was brought in to play OG not OC. Due to his flexibility and ability to learn multiple positions Tomlin stuck him at center. I think he would be a good pulling gaurd.

SteelCityMan786
06-16-2008, 09:58 AM
I think that's where Mahan should be and also start at guard because of some people have said that he is twice the guard then he is a "Center"

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-16-2008, 10:02 AM
He was brought in to play OG not OC. .

He should be a better Guard...but he WAS signed to compete at Center

Steelers add to center competition
Free-agent Mahan signs 5-year, $17 million deal
Sunday, March 11, 2007
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers certainly did not take the retirement of two-time Pro Bowl center Jeff Hartings sitting down.

After signing free agent offensive lineman Sean Mahan, 26, to a five-year, $17 million contract yesterday, the team is awash in centers.

Mahan, who received a $4 million signing bonus as part of his deal, was told by the coaching staff that he will compete with six-year veteran Chukky Okobi and guard Kendall Simmons to replace Hartings. Marvin Philip, a sixth-round draft choice last year, also is on the roster......
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07070/768625-66.stm

TackleMeBen
06-16-2008, 10:23 AM
he sucked at center, so hopefully this season he can play at his rightful position of guard and kick butt.

BlastFurnace
06-16-2008, 10:23 AM
He was brought in to play OG not OC. Due to his flexibility and ability to learn multiple positions Tomlin stuck him at center. I think he would be a good pulling gaurd.

Not true. He was signed to be the Center. He was eaten alive by the bigger DT's that we played last season, which shows that he was either too light to play the position or that he's just not cut out for it.

Bottom line in this whole thing, if the Steelers did not agree with the assessment that Mahan was terrible, then why was Hartwig brought in? Hartwig was brought in to play Center. His desire to play Center was one of the reason that Carolina cut him and he made that clear before he visited us in FA.

Yes, Ben caused some of the problem with how long he kept the ball, but let's face it...there were plenty of snaps that he was running for his life the moment he got the ball.

Mahan needs to be replaced at Center. There is no other way to look at it. He's not the next Dermonti Dawson, Jeff Hartings, etc.

The_WARDen
06-16-2008, 11:03 AM
I will cut him some slack when he stops sucking but thanks for the suggestion...

:coffee:

MACH1
06-16-2008, 11:22 AM
I will cut him some slack when he stops sucking but thanks for the suggestion...

:coffee:

:iagree:

missedgehead
06-16-2008, 02:33 PM
Mahan was not a very good center, let's face it. However it is not his natural position so I am gonna give him a break.

The Duke
06-16-2008, 03:12 PM
he sucks at center, but that's about it. guard, I'm hoping he becomes great. even if he's just a backup.

if kemo almost beat simmons out of the RG position last year, I don't think it's impossible mahan does, and at the same time kemo gets the LG.

whatever happens, I hope for the best :tt:

HometownGal
06-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Not true. He was signed to be the Center. He was eaten alive by the bigger DT's that we played last season, which shows that he was either too light to play the position or that he's just not cut out for it.

Bottom line in this whole thing, if the Steelers did not agree with the assessment that Mahan was terrible, then why was Hartwig brought in? Hartwig was brought in to play Center. His desire to play Center was one of the reason that Carolina cut him and he made that clear before he visited us in FA.

Yes, Ben caused some of the problem with how long he kept the ball, but let's face it...there were plenty of snaps that he was running for his life the moment he got the ball.

Mahan needs to be replaced at Center. There is no other way to look at it. He's not the next Dermonti Dawson, Jeff Hartings, etc.

If the Steelers felt Mahan was so "terrible" - why hasn't he been given the heave-ho? :banging: He basically proved last season that he isn't cut out to play C, but he was actually a pretty decent G with the Bucs. Hartwig was brought in to "compete" with Mahan for the C position, which Hartwig should win easily, just as Mahan was brought in to "compete" for the C position with Okobi and if nothing else, impressed Tomlin, Zierlein (as well as me and countless others) at TC and sent Okobi packing not just from Pittsburgh, but from Arizona as well.

I've said it a thousand times on this board and I'll say it again - give Mahan the opportunity to play at G where he is most comfortable and has had success in the past and if he doesn't cut it, then show him the door. I have a lot of faith in the guy and I believe if given the opportunity at G, he will do a good job for the Steelers.

Unfortunately, not only for Mahan but for Hartwig or whoever else plays the C position for the Steelers, they are never going to measure up to the 3 All Pro HOF centers who played before them. Iron Mike, Dirt and Hartings were 3 of the greatest C's to ever play the game and are legends in their own right(s). Whoever wins that position is going to be scrutinized under a microscope by Steelers fans, sadly.

Geez - thank God some of your employers don't want to toss you out on your hineys after 5-6 months. :coffee:

The_WARDen
06-16-2008, 03:54 PM
trouble is...HE (not anyone else) signed with the Steelers to play Center not Guard.

He took $$ to play a position that he knew he couldn't play....so no slack here.

The Steelers are at fault here also for taking the cheap way out and signing a guard to play center not knowing that he wasn't that good.

:coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-16-2008, 04:00 PM
Nobody had heard of Mahan before the signing and most were optomistic. After looking on some TB boards, he wasnt that dominant there and they didnt care if he left.

He isnt cut yet because at guard there is Kendall Simmons, Kemo(on a 1 year contract) Stapleton, Legursky and maybe Colon. Mahan is depth until we establish 3 guys that can play OG consistently.

Face it. Sean Mahan is the interior line equivalent of Todd Fordham.

paw-n-maul-u
06-16-2008, 04:17 PM
el gonzo, u nailed it.

HometownGal
06-16-2008, 04:51 PM
Face it. Sean Mahan is the interior line equivalent of Todd Fordham.

We'll have to agree to disagree here, ElGonzo. I'm going to give the guy a fair shot at a position he is comfortable and familiar with before I throw him under the bus.

atlsteelers
06-16-2008, 05:06 PM
mahan stunk.

Lord Stiller
06-16-2008, 05:21 PM
He isnt cut yet because at guard there is Kendall Simmons, Kemo(on a 1 year contract) Stapleton, Legursky and maybe Colon. Mahan is depth until we establish 3 guys that can play OG consistently.


He isn't cut yet because of the money we gave him. Cutting him barely saves money on the cap

i hate Mahan

BlastFurnace
06-16-2008, 05:30 PM
If the Steelers felt Mahan was so "terrible" - why hasn't he been given the heave-ho? :banging: He basically proved last season that he isn't cut out to play C, but he was actually a pretty decent G with the Bucs. Hartwig was brought in to "compete" with Mahan for the C position, which Hartwig should win easily, just as Mahan was brought in to "compete" for the C position with Okobi and if nothing else, impressed Tomlin, Zierlein (as well as me and countless others) at TC and sent Okobi packing not just from Pittsburgh, but from Arizona as well.

I've said it a thousand times on this board and I'll say it again - give Mahan the opportunity to play at G where he is most comfortable and has had success in the past and if he doesn't cut it, then show him the door. I have a lot of faith in the guy and I believe if given the opportunity at G, he will do a good job for the Steelers.

Unfortunately, not only for Mahan but for Hartwig or whoever else plays the C position for the Steelers, they are never going to measure up to the 3 All Pro HOF centers who played before them. Iron Mike, Dirt and Hartings were 3 of the greatest C's to ever play the game and are legends in their own right(s). Whoever wins that position is going to be scrutinized under a microscope by Steelers fans, sadly.

Geez - thank God some of your employers don't want to toss you out on your hineys after 5-6 months. :coffee:

He wasn't / hasn't been cut because he is atleast a servicable backup and possibly because of a cap hit...where the Steelers are very..very close to the cap limit. I never said I wanted him cut..I just think he was a terrible Center. Like I said, he is a servicable spot starter or backup. We have had them in the past and they were very valuable when needed.

The Bucs fans that commented on him leaving did not act like he was a big loss. Remember, last year was the year of the big Guard FA signings....40+ Million for average to above average Guards. Mahan didn't even get 50% of that. If he was really that decent, the Steelers would not have been able to sign him for the $$$'s they did.

No-one is asking them to be Dirt, Webster, or Hartings. We need someone who can stand at the point of attack and not get bullrushed by some average DT like Dewayne Robertston.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-16-2008, 05:40 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree here, ElGonzo. I'm going to give the guy a fair shot at a position he is comfortable and familiar with before I throw him under the bus.

Sure we can agree to disagree. The main issue here is that none of us are Tampa Bay fans and have only seen Mahan 1 season. Go check out some Bucs forums and you will see he had his chance and is lucky he isnt under a bus in Tampa.

The below comments on Mahan come from a Tampa Bay forum from March of 2007. Funny how one year later its pretty much the mirror image of Steelerfan opinions.

He's nothing more than a career backup....unless you appreciate mediocrity at a position where you need nothing short of superiority.

I honestly don't think he'll be back next year. The Buccaneers aren't one to over pay players on a regular basis and with the amount of money teams have in free cap space this year, someone will overpay him.

horrible at guard, but i think he could be a good center.

The consensus in Tampa Bay was that his natural (future) position was centre. He was never able to overthrow Wade for the starting spot, and played quite poorly as an injury fill in at guard.

I am happy that the Bucs are looking elsewhere for a centre.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3070

Rhee Rhee
06-16-2008, 05:52 PM
Nobody had heard of Mahan before the signing and most were optomistic. After looking on some TB boards, he wasnt that dominant there and they didnt care if he left.

He isnt cut yet because at guard there is Kendall Simmons, Kemo(on a 1 year contract) Stapleton, Legursky and maybe Colon. Mahan is depth until we establish 3 guys that can play OG consistently.

Face it. Sean Mahan is the interior line equivalent of Todd Fordham.

i'm glad someone found out why he's still with us. el gonzo u summed up everything i was gonna say. :tt03::tt02::thumbsup:

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-16-2008, 06:08 PM
Cant wait until this post reads.......After Stapleton, Hartwig and Legursky pick up the slack............Mahan Cut!!

steelymcmatt
06-16-2008, 07:05 PM
The man was playing out of position...center instead of guard, learning a new offensive system where he was protecting a quarterback calling protections for the first time.....wonder why he struggled some.....

This year he is in his second year on the team and will be much more familiar with the system, in his natural position. All in all he'll be much more improved!

BlastFurnace
06-16-2008, 07:56 PM
The man was playing out of position...center instead of guard, learning a new offensive system where he was protecting a quarterback calling protections for the first time.....wonder why he struggled some.....

This year he is in his second year on the team and will be much more familiar with the system, in his natural position. All in all he'll be much more improved!

Mahan wasn't calling out the protection, Ben was. That was pretty well documented last year.

HometownGal
06-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Mahan wasn't calling out the protection, Ben was. That was pretty well documented last year.

I think steelymcmatt was saying just that, BF. :wink02:

a quarterback calling protections for the first time.

FourThreeMafia
06-16-2008, 08:08 PM
For those of you thinking he will be better at guard you obviously didnt see him play in Tampa Bay.

Mahan has always sucked and will always suck. Ill cut him some slack when he is cut. He is a waste of roster and cap space.

BlastFurnace
06-16-2008, 08:35 PM
I think steelymcmatt was saying just that, BF. :wink02:

Oh...now that you mention that...I think I read his point wrong. My bad.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-16-2008, 09:37 PM
Here is another analysis from 2006 on Mahan. More of the same. Good technique, moves well, but strength vs larger defenders is a problem. Its pretty much what we saw last season.

Mahan is much better in the open and can provide excellent blocking on rush plays. He adjusts well to the moving target, loves to attack the defensive linemen, and is quick to the point of attack. He can cut and reach with success, has good overall range, and has good technique. However, his strength and power are often a problem, namely in the short area. He won’t dominate if asked to hold the line and pass protect. He’s easily pushed around by larger DTs and, if he’s not given the angle, he’ll struggle to finish his tasks.

http://www.fantasyfootball.com/articles/index.html?article_id=524

If it was his 2nd year in the league I cut him some some slack, but its 6th year and all these reports from his last 2 seasons in Tampa say the same things we complain about here.

The fact is that with the prospect of Okobi being the only center on the roster last year, the Steelers felt the panic and reached for a bad solution. They overpaid for a '78 Pinto because it was the only thing on the lot other than an Escalade or a Skoda.

X-Terminator
06-16-2008, 11:26 PM
Yep, I'm sure glad I haven't been posting in this forum very much because of the Penguins' Cup run, because this thread proves that not one thing has changed. Steelers fans wanting a guy thrown on a spit over an open fire after one season, and not giving him a second chance to prove himself. Imagine that. :coffee:

Galax Steeler
06-17-2008, 02:42 AM
If Mahan can show me that he can play guard and get a staring spot then I will give him some respect but if he can't then I want to see him cut.

Preacher
06-17-2008, 03:05 AM
Yep, I'm sure glad I haven't been posting in this forum very much because of the Penguins' Cup run, because this thread proves that not one thing has changed. Steelers fans wanting a guy thrown on a spit over an open fire after one season, and not giving him a second chance to prove himself. Imagine that. :coffee:

Hey X term..

did you know it was all arians fault?

:chuckle:

FourThreeMafia
06-17-2008, 06:29 AM
Yep, I'm sure glad I haven't been posting in this forum very much because of the Penguins' Cup run, because this thread proves that not one thing has changed. Steelers fans wanting a guy thrown on a spit over an open fire after one season, and not giving him a second chance to prove himself. Imagine that. :coffee:

:blah:

There is a difference between people bashing Arians and people bashing Mahan.

Arians made some iffy calls, but we also had a very productive offense with the leading rusher through week 15 and the 2nd highest rated QB in the league. There is no reason for people bashing Arians.

Mahan, on the other hand, sucked in Tampa Bay. The Steelers signed him for way too much, he was pretty much handed the center job because the only competition was Chukky Okobi, who sucked even more than he did, and then played awful as expected. He is weak, slow, and has poor technique. He is barely a suitable backup, much less a starter.

So, in conclusion, Arians wasnt perfect, but he did his job alot better than Steeler fans give him credit for. Mahan sucked, as expected, and is never going to be good enough to start in this league, and isnt even a quality backup.

GBMelBlount
06-17-2008, 06:51 AM
Perhaps packing on a few more pounds and some strength training......

X-Terminator
06-17-2008, 06:54 AM
:blah:

There is a difference between people bashing Arians and people bashing Mahan.

Arians made some iffy calls, but we also had a very productive offense with the leading rusher through week 15 and the 2nd highest rated QB in the league. There is no reason for people bashing Arians.

Mahan, on the other hand, sucked in Tampa Bay. The Steelers signed him for way too much, he was pretty much handed the center job because the only competition was Chukky Okobi, who sucked even more than he did, and then played awful as expected. He is weak, slow, and has poor technique. He is barely a suitable backup, much less a starter.

So, in conclusion, Arians wasnt perfect, but he did his job alot better than Steeler fans give him credit for. Mahan sucked, as expected, and is never going to be good enough to start in this league, and isnt even a quality backup.

I don't believe I mentioned Arians in my post, but OK.

Point is, let's see how he does at his natural guard position before we throw him under the bus, hmmm? If he wins a starting job, then great. If not, THEN cut him. Or is that asking too much?

fansince'76
06-17-2008, 06:58 AM
Hey X term..

did you know it was all arians fault?

:chuckle:

Nope, it was all Willie's fault. Get with the program! :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-17-2008, 10:50 AM
Steelers fans wanting a guy thrown on a spit over an open fire after one season, and not giving him a second chance to prove himself. Imagine that. :coffee:

The problem is that its not ONE season. Its been FIVE seasons that he has been in the NFL and if you look at some Tampa boards then its a consitent FOUR seasons for Mahan in the NFL being a good, smart, technical lineman THAT GETS OVERPOWERED BY D-LINEMEN.

The honest truth of it is, this guy will never compete for the NFL's strongest man title. In Tampa Bay, he was weak at Guard and better at Center because their division rivals (Saints, Panthers, Falcons) played a 4-3 with no lineman over the center. Mahan was free to use his technique and angles to get to the LB's.

With the Steelers, Mahan had to face more teams that play a 3-4 like the Browns, Ravens, Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Rams, Pats, and I think 49ers. Mahan struggles with a player over him, so may be better suited in our div to play guard.

I would rather have somebody that can hold his own with a D-lineman head up on him. Mahan will get a shot, probably make the roster this season as backup depth at G/C and find himself on the outs the following year with the emergence of Kemo, Stapleton, Legursky and maybe another pick.

He's gonna get his chance, but look past the 1 season with the Steelers, to the previous 4 with the Bucs and its all the same. Good technician, but not gonna win the physical 1 0n 1 battles.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-17-2008, 12:32 PM
Nope, it was all Willie's fault. Get with the program! :chuckle:

..it was Tomlins fault for not switching Kuhn to OG. :stirthepot:

tony hipchest
06-17-2008, 12:35 PM
..it was Tomlins fault for not switching Kuhn to OG. :stirthepot:nah, theres a new scapegoat in town....

it was cedric wilson's baby's momma's fault.

TackleMeBen
06-17-2008, 12:41 PM
Nope, it was all Willie's fault. Get with the program! :chuckle:
nope, its all ben's fault for whining about needing a tall reciever.. therefore we couldnt get a good center in the draft.. oh wait i dont think there were that many anyway :chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-17-2008, 12:48 PM
nah, theres a new scapegoat in town....

it was cedric wilson's baby's momma's fault.

...any truth to the rumor that she is dating Tom Brady?:flap:

TackleMeBen
06-17-2008, 12:51 PM
...any truth to the rumor that she is dating Tom Brady?:flap:
well i guess that is an upgrade over ced :chuckle:, not by much though.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-17-2008, 12:53 PM
well i guess that is an upgrade over ced :chuckle:, not by much though.

Yeah....but Ced and Tom made a cute couple.

TackleMeBen
06-17-2008, 12:54 PM
Yeah....but Ced and Tom made a cute couple.
lol.. you are nuts LLT :chuckle:

The_WARDen
06-17-2008, 01:11 PM
Here is another analysis from 2006 on Mahan. More of the same. Good technique, moves well, but strength vs larger defenders is a problem. Its pretty much what we saw last season.

Mahan is much better in the open and can provide excellent blocking on rush plays. He adjusts well to the moving target, loves to attack the defensive linemen, and is quick to the point of attack. He can cut and reach with success, has good overall range, and has good technique. However, his strength and power are often a problem, namely in the short area. He wont dominate if asked to hold the line and pass protect. Hes easily pushed around by larger DTs and, if hes not given the angle, hell struggle to finish his tasks.

http://www.fantasyfootball.com/articles/index.html?article_id=524

If it was his 2nd year in the league I cut him some some slack, but its 6th year and all these reports from his last 2 seasons in Tampa say the same things we complain about here.

The fact is that with the prospect of Okobi being the only center on the roster last year, the Steelers felt the panic and reached for a bad solution. They overpaid for a '78 Pinto because it was the only thing on the lot other than an Escalade or a Skoda.

Don't bring facts and things into the argument...he's a Steeler and thou shalt not criticize a Steeler. They all try their varwy best. Rah Rah Rah!

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
06-17-2008, 01:13 PM
Cut him some slack if and only if he makes the probowl?

KeiselPower99
06-17-2008, 01:23 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but didnt we all bash on Wayne Gandy when he first got here??? And by the end of the contract he was playing out of this world good? Yes Mahan didnt play all that great and Hartwig is here to push him for that spot. Either way ya look at it we will have a better Center next year based on competition.

paw-n-maul-u
06-17-2008, 02:21 PM
this thread should be renamed ... Cut mahan .... get rid of the "some slack"

fansince'76
06-17-2008, 02:30 PM
Don't bring facts and things into the argument...he's a Steeler and thou shalt not criticize a Steeler. They all try their varwy best. Rah Rah Rah!

Anybody who has a bad season is a worthless POS and should be cut immediately! :coffee:

Preacher
06-17-2008, 02:42 PM
Don't bring facts and things into the argument...he's a Steeler and thou shalt not criticize a Steeler. They all try their varwy best. Rah Rah Rah!

You know...

speaking of facts...

I am amazed at the hate Mahan crowd who ignore all the other facts... such as his massive loss of weight last year, the change in signal calling... the change of position, the fact that they CUT DOWN ON SACKS by 2 sacks the year before, meaning that Mahan is being scapegoated for the sack problem, etc. etc.

Stop with the condescension. Most of us have criticized a NUMBER of players. I have criticized the entire line numerous times. However, unlike many people, I refuse to scapegoat a single one of them.

TackleMeBen
06-17-2008, 02:44 PM
i dont think mahan is made for center. i am willing to give him a chance at his natural positon of guard and see how well he does there.

The Duke
06-17-2008, 03:24 PM
Anybody who has a bad season is a worthless POS and should be cut immediately! :coffee:

man, just imagine their thoughts after ben's 2006 season :doh:

BlastFurnace
06-17-2008, 03:31 PM
You know...

speaking of facts...

I am amazed at the hate Mahan crowd who ignore all the other facts... such as his massive loss of weight last year, the change in signal calling... the change of position, the fact that they CUT DOWN ON SACKS by 2 sacks the year before, meaning that Mahan is being scapegoated for the sack problem, etc. etc.

Stop with the condescension. Most of us have criticized a NUMBER of players. I have criticized the entire line numerous times. However, unlike many people, I refuse to scapegoat a single one of them.

It's pretty safe to say that the entire line stunk last season. Faneca, Simmons, Smith, Colon, etc. They all stunk. Mahan get's the brunt of the criticism because it was focused on more...IMO.

tony hipchest
06-17-2008, 04:13 PM
It's pretty safe to say that the entire line stunk last season.they were too busy studying their position coaches forwarded internet porn instead of actual gamefilm dvd's. :noidea:

its larry z's fault. i think its fair to say that replacing a hog like grimm is no easy task.

FourThreeMafia
06-17-2008, 04:21 PM
I don't believe I mentioned Arians in my post, but OK.

Point is, let's see how he does at his natural guard position before we throw him under the bus, hmmm? If he wins a starting job, then great. If not, THEN cut him. Or is that asking too much?



I know you didnt mention Arians, but you were talking about Steeler fans throwing players/coaches under the bus too soon, and Arians fits that mold. I actually agree with you that Steeler fans are usually way too quick to judge, but in Mahan's case, they are right to.

And it wouldnt be much to ask for if he didnt already play at and suck at guard while in Tampa Bay. An unproven rookie beat him outright for the starting job. He came here and was handed the center position because the Steelers had literally no one else to play there. He was a panic move. There were no other OLineman really available last year so we got stuck with him. Thats what we get for drafting poorly in the later rounds and ignoring the trenches.

Im willing to give guys like Anthony Smith, Willie Colon and Nate Washington more chances, because they are young and each have shown they have the potential to be good at the position.

Going into 2007, I had hopes that maybe we could mold Mahan into something. But after watching Mahan in Tampa and watching him play all year in 2007, I can say with confidence that he will never be anything more than a mediocre backup at best.

The only reason Mahan will even be on the roster is because of how stupid we were to give him the type of deal we did. Ill be shocked if he is on the roster in 2009.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-17-2008, 04:32 PM
You know...

Stop with the condescension. Most of us have criticized a NUMBER of players. I have criticized the entire line numerous times. However, unlike many people, I refuse to scapegoat a single one of them.


(Its Preachers fault..since he joined the board...the line has given up over 90 sacks)

HometownGal
06-17-2008, 04:32 PM
Anybody who has a bad season is a worthless POS and should be cut immediately! :coffee:

Personally, I think if those who want Mahan cut because of his not-so-stellar 2007 season being thrown head first into a starting C role, should also call for the heads of all of the other OLmen who were equally as bad, if not at times worse.

Preacher
06-17-2008, 04:55 PM
It's pretty safe to say that the entire line stunk last season. Faneca, Simmons, Smith, Colon, etc. They all stunk. Mahan get's the brunt of the criticism because it was focused on more...IMO.

Now that is a good point.

Preacher
06-17-2008, 04:56 PM
(Its Preachers fault..since he joined the board...the line has given up over 90 sacks)


:chuckle:


I am a secret plant from the Seahawk organization!

FourThreeMafia
06-17-2008, 05:03 PM
Personally, I think if those who want Mahan cut because of his not-so-stellar 2007 season being thrown head first into a starting C role, should also call for the heads of all of the other OLmen who were equally as bad, if not at times worse.

The only one nearly as bad in stretches as Mahan was Colon, but Colon TRULY didnt belong at tackle. You can point out particular plays and maybe even a few drives, but overall, Mahan was the weakest link.

And like I said, Mahan sucks at guard too. People are acting as if he hasnt got his chance at guard. He has, and he sucked. People need to remember that he wasnt a rookie last year. He was in Tampa Bay before this, and he was bad. He was given the job by default.

For all of you Mahan supporters, please explain, what has he done to prove that he deserves another chance? He is weak, plays with poor technique and leverage and doesnt use his hands well. He flat out doesnt have the tools to be a quality OL in this league. Thats what it comes down to.

Preacher
06-17-2008, 05:15 PM
The only one nearly as bad in stretches as Mahan was Colon, but Colon TRULY didnt belong at tackle. You can point out particular plays and maybe even a few drives, but overall, Mahan was the weakest link.

And like I said, Mahan sucks at guard too. People are acting as if he hasnt got his chance at guard. He has, and he sucked. People need to remember that he wasnt a rookie last year. He was in Tampa Bay before this, and he was bad. He was given the job by default.

For all of you Mahan supporters, please explain, what has he done to prove that he deserves another chance? He is weak, plays with poor technique and leverage and doesnt use his hands well. He flat out doesnt have the tools to be a quality OL in this league. Thats what it comes down to.

Interestingly.. I am actually not a Mahan supporter..

I just don't believe in sacrificial goats.

I think Mahan was one of the worst players on the team last year. it is just that, Colon, Faneca, Smith, and Simmons were the ones he was among... and thus it is unfair to point to him out of them all.

HometownGal
06-17-2008, 05:31 PM
The only one nearly as bad in stretches as Mahan was Colon, but Colon TRULY didnt belong at tackle. You can point out particular plays and maybe even a few drives, but overall, Mahan was the weakest link.

And like I said, Mahan sucks at guard too. People are acting as if he hasnt got his chance at guard. He has, and he sucked. People need to remember that he wasnt a rookie last year. He was in Tampa Bay before this, and he was bad. He was given the job by default.

For all of you Mahan supporters, please explain, what has he done to prove that he deserves another chance? He is weak, plays with poor technique and leverage and doesnt use his hands well. He flat out doesnt have the tools to be a quality OL in this league. Thats what it comes down to.

Mahan TRULY didn't belong at C either. You are basing a lot of your opinion about Mahan on what a couple of members on a TB Bucs BB posted. Do you really think Gruden, of all people, would have left him in there if he really sucked that badly? Sounds like the Bucs have their share of armchair HC's too. :coffee:

What has Mahan done to prove that he deserves another chance? Holy Mother of God - the guy played one season here in a different role than what he is accustomed to playing and to boot - on an OL that pretty much sucked long before he arrived in the Burgh. As I've said before - let him compete for the G position at TC and if he gets beat out, either use him as a reserve or cut him loose.

steelymcmatt
06-17-2008, 07:13 PM
If Mahan can show me that he can play guard and get a staring spot then I will give him some respect but if he can't then I want to see him cut.

There's a novel thought.....if the guy doesn't do his job, cut him......any other brilliant reccommendations?

FourThreeMafia
06-18-2008, 04:41 AM
Interestingly.. I am actually not a Mahan supporter..

I just don't believe in sacrificial goats.

I think Mahan was one of the worst players on the team last year. it is just that, Colon, Faneca, Smith, and Simmons were the ones he was among... and thus it is unfair to point to him out of them all.

I dont believe in sacrificial goats either, but a bad player is a bad player.

FourThreeMafia
06-18-2008, 05:27 AM
Mahan TRULY didn't belong at C either. You are basing a lot of your opinion about Mahan on what a couple of members on a TB Bucs BB posted.

Is that what Im doing? Funny, I thought I was basing it off of having seen his performance in Tampa Bay. But you would know what I do better than me, right? :noidea:

Do you really think Gruden, of all people, would have left him in there if he really sucked that badly? Sounds like the Bucs have their share of armchair HC's too. :coffee:

Left him in there?

In 2004, he started at center after John Wade got hurt. He sucked as badly as he does now.

In 2005, he got the RG position handed to him by default (kind of like how he got the center job here). He was the weakest player on the line that year and lost his job.

In 2006, he got the LG job HANDED to him AGAIN after Dan Buenning went down. Again, he sucked.

Seems to me like Gruden was basically stuck with him. If he was that good, they wouldnt have let him go, especially considering the issues they had on the OLine.

]What has Mahan done to prove that he deserves another chance? Holy Mother of God - the guy played one season here in a different role than what he is accustomed to playing and to boot - on an OL that pretty much sucked long before he arrived in the Burgh. As I've said before - let him compete for the G position at TC and if he gets beat out, either use him as a reserve or cut him loose.

He played at center before, and he sucked.

He played guard in two previous seasons, and sucked.

Once again, its time to stop acting as if he was a good guard before he came to Pittsburgh. He wasnt. He was brought in because there was NO ONE ELSE AVAILABLE and HANDED the starting center job.

And that comment about the Steelers OLine sucking long before he came to Pittsburgh is just ignorant. We went 15-1 in 2004 and to an AFCC game. We went 11-5 and won the SB in 2005. 2006 wasnt that good, but we Parker had nearly 1500 yards rushing and 13 rushing TDs.

Newsflash: Teams with OLines that SUCK dont have that type of success.

Hartings on two bad knees was still much better than Mahan.

I give all players their fair chance and dont judge players based on one bad season. Mahan has been in the league for 5 years. He has played every position on the interior line and stunk at all of them.

Now I will ask again because you or anyone else has yet to answer this question. What HAVE YOU SEEN that makes you think Mahan deserves another chance? If your only answer is "He was out of position in Pittsburgh", save it, because he sucked almost as much at both guard positions playing in Tampa Bay.

X-Terminator
06-18-2008, 06:39 AM
Is that what Im doing? Funny, I thought I was basing it off of having seen his performance in Tampa Bay. But you would know what I do better than me, right? :noidea:

Well then I think this thread should be over and no one else should comment, because obviously you're the expert. :noidea:

He played at center before, and he sucked.

He played guard in two previous seasons, and sucked.

Once again, its time to stop acting as if he was a good guard before he came to Pittsburgh. He wasnt. He was brought in because there was NO ONE ELSE AVAILABLE and HANDED the starting center job.

He wasn't HANDED anything last season. If you'll recall, up until the end of TC, the Steelers were still working out Kendall Simmons at center. Whether or not they were serious about starting him there is up to debate, but they still did it. If the Steelers' brass felt that he would have been a better option, they would have played him there over Mahan no matter how much money he was given. Tomlin is about putting what he feels is the best 11 guys on the field, and in his mind, Mahan was one of them.

And that comment about the Steelers OLine sucking long before he came to Pittsburgh is just ignorant. We went 15-1 in 2004 and to an AFCC game. We went 11-5 and won the SB in 2005. 2006 wasnt that good, but we Parker had nearly 1500 yards rushing and 13 rushing TDs.

Newsflash: Teams with OLines that SUCK dont have that type of success.

A LOT of Steelers fans were complaining about the OL pretty much throughout the 2005 season, especially before they went on the run to the SB title. They were very inconsistent up until then. I don't think I need to bring up the disaster that was 2006. So the point is valid. Who's the ignorant one here?

I give all players their fair chance and dont judge players based on one bad season. Mahan has been in the league for 5 years. He has played every position on the interior line and stunk at all of them.

Now I will ask again because you or anyone else has yet to answer this question. What HAVE YOU SEEN that makes you think Mahan deserves another chance? If your only answer is "He was out of position in Pittsburgh", save it, because he sucked almost as much at both guard positions playing in Tampa Bay.

I saw him first-hand in TC last season and liked what I saw. And before you say "TC isn't like playing in a game," I'm well aware of that. Also, a lot of the OL's woes can be attributed to all of the shuffling Tomlin did during TC, rather than sticking with one unit and allowing them to gel. You can't get any type of continuity if you don't know where - or if - you're going to play from day-to-day, week-to-week. You wanted an answer? I just gave you two. But go ahead and continue to put all of the blame on him.

fansince'76
06-18-2008, 06:40 AM
In 2004, he started at center after John Wade got hurt. He sucked as badly as he does now.

In 2005, he got the RG position handed to him by default (kind of like how he got the center job here). He was the weakest player on the line that year and lost his job.

In 2006, he got the LG job HANDED to him AGAIN after Dan Buenning went down. Again, he sucked.

Seems to me like Gruden was basically stuck with him. If he was that good, they wouldnt have let him go, especially considering the issues they had on the OLine.

He played at center before, and he sucked.

He played guard in two previous seasons, and sucked.

Once again, its time to stop acting as if he was a good guard before he came to Pittsburgh. He wasnt. He was brought in because there was NO ONE ELSE AVAILABLE and HANDED the starting center job.

And that comment about the Steelers OLine sucking long before he came to Pittsburgh is just ignorant. We went 15-1 in 2004 and to an AFCC game. We went 11-5 and won the SB in 2005. 2006 wasnt that good, but we Parker had nearly 1500 yards rushing and 13 rushing TDs.

Newsflash: Teams with OLines that SUCK dont have that type of success.

Hartings on two bad knees was still much better than Mahan.

I give all players their fair chance and dont judge players based on one bad season. Mahan has been in the league for 5 years. He has played every position on the interior line and stunk at all of them.

Now I will ask again because you or anyone else has yet to answer this question. What HAVE YOU SEEN that makes you think Mahan deserves another chance? If your only answer is "He was out of position in Pittsburgh", save it, because he sucked almost as much at both guard positions playing in Tampa Bay.

Sounds like you have followed Mahan since the beginning of his career. If so, why weren't you pointing out what a "panic move" Mahan's signing was by the Steelers at this same time last year?

Sean Mahan - Solid technician, but not real strong. He will struggle with Big NG's. Gets by with guts and a non stop motor. He will need help with interior Dlinemen. First time the Steelers will have to help a center with an interior player since 1962. Mahan is good in pass protection and has good feet. He is a bigger more mobile version of Chukky Okobi, who I expect (hope) to be cut.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=257587#post257587

lilyoder6
06-18-2008, 09:18 AM
i will cut mahan some slack when he starts producing. lol.. j/k,

but i can see where some of u stand as he is a natural guard and we asked him to play center.. so hopefully he plays g better than he did c

revefsreleets
06-18-2008, 10:16 AM
You know, the funny thing is if the guy is being overwhelmed it's not like there is no recourse. He could add a little bulk and redesign his strength and conditioning training. Maybe adjust technique or work on balance more. It probably can't hurt that this will be the second year all these guys will haveunder their belts in a new blocking scheme. Just food for thought as I see this thread turning a little ugly...

slashsteel
06-18-2008, 12:54 PM
Mahan/Colon both one year starters in our scheme. Both had pass protection issues. Maybe a year of experience helps? Maybe Mahan can stick at G maybe he can't. I for one don't blame just Mahan as there was plenty of blame to go around. That being said. he isn't the answer at C. Hopefully in the short term Hartwig is. As a unit the O-line needs to improve and that includes Ben who needs to learn to get rid of the ball quicker.

I am not sure if weight gain at this point would help Mahan. Or should I say at this stage in his career if he hasn't added the pounds maybe he can't.

But I am not writing him off yet or Colon. But at the end of camp hopefully we will have a line intact that can be a better version than last years. Hopefully the starting positions will be decided more sooner than later.........

ChronoCross
06-18-2008, 01:13 PM
With Faneca playing like crap and Mahan only having 8 games under his belt at center before he came to the Steelers, did not help him much at all. He only started 8 games with tamap at center because they had no one else on that team at the time on the line to even play center while there main center was out for the season injured. Simmons giving sacks up left and right this last season the middle of are line was pure garbage. I say it did not help mahan any with Faneca and Simmons playing like crap around him might of made him look worse then maybe he is. But in all the middle of that line needs serious help. If Mahan makes a spot I bet its only at Guard his original position. But in all I see him getting cut after 6-1 during training camp if he cannot win a guard slot.

Biggest mistake I seen made this last season was bringing in Mahan when we had others who trained behind Hartings, and I put the blame there on the coaches. Now that we have Offensive weapons out of this world it is about time they stop making this mistakes and give Ben a Line he can work with this guys. Plus Ben needs to improve to to help with all this weapons. Faster Release of the ball, work on his defensive reads. But if Steelers could give him a O line that he could relax behind would help him make this adjustments better.

Ok I cut Mahan some slack, now just cut his butt and lets move on.

missedgehead
06-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Why don't they cut him if he sucks so bad?

HometownGal
06-18-2008, 03:54 PM
but i can see where some of u stand as he is a natural guard and we asked him to play center.. so hopefully he plays g better than he did c

Some natural G's can switch to the C slot with no problem and some can't make that transition. Sean Mahan clearly falls into the second category. XT and I watched him intently at TC last year and Mahan was a beast, stopping literally everyone who tried to come through him. He frustrated Big Snack so bad that one of the other players (can't recall who) had to calm Hampton down. I shit you not.

Hey - if the guy can't cut it at G, then he needs to hit the highway. All I'm saying here is that the guy should at least be given a fair chance to compete for a G position. The fact that he wasn't cut after last season and is still a member of the team tells me that he obviously is going to be given a shot. It also tells me that Tomlin and Zierlein see something in him that some Steelers fans don't. Last I knew, both were hired for their expertise and as I've always done with Steelers HC's and assistants, I'm going to trust in their judgment, one way or the other.

In Tomlin I Trust! :tt02:

Preacher
06-18-2008, 04:15 PM
Mahan Before last year

http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NFL/Headshots/140x170/6504.jpg





Mahan after last year

http://www.planebuzz.com/800px-Goat_face.jpg








Mahan's position last year.....


CENTER

Mahan's position now?



On top of this...


http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/niuserresuntemple7.jpg

TackleMeBen
06-18-2008, 05:39 PM
Mahan Before last year

http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NFL/Headshots/140x170/6504.jpg





Mahan after last year

http://www.planebuzz.com/800px-Goat_face.jpg








Mahan's position last year.....


CENTER

Mahan's position now?



On top of this...


http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/niuserresuntemple7.jpg

that is too funny..lol :chuckle:

FourThreeMafia
06-19-2008, 11:22 AM
Well then I think this thread should be over and no one else should comment, because obviously you're the expert. :noidea:

:shake01: Never claimed to be an expert. I have seen him play in Tampa Bay and have seen archive footage of him.



He wasn't HANDED anything last season. If you'll recall, up until the end of TC, the Steelers were still working out Kendall Simmons at center. Whether or not they were serious about starting him there is up to debate, but they still did it. If the Steelers' brass felt that he would have been a better option, they would have played him there over Mahan no matter how much money he was given. Tomlin is about putting what he feels is the best 11 guys on the field, and in his mind, Mahan was one of them.

Simmons was a trainwreck at center. He is too stupid to snap the ball AND block. Mahan had experience there. They gave Mahan that contract to start somewhere, so maybe he wasnt handed the center job, but he was handed the STARTING job. Just goes to show how poor the depth on our line is.



A LOT of Steelers fans were complaining about the OL pretty much throughout the 2005 season, especially before they went on the run to the SB title. They were very inconsistent up until then. I don't think I need to bring up the disaster that was 2006. So the point is valid. Who's the ignorant one here?

Most Steeler fans dont have a clue. Most of them are yinzer Sunday fans that dont follow football outside of what they see on Sundays. Thats a weak argument.

Maybe the line was inconsistent, but it didnt suck.

In 2006, our RB ran for nearly 1500 yards and 13 TDs. The sacks stemmed from Ben being 70% at best all season and holding the ball too long. Was the OLine great? No way, but an OLine that sucks or was a DISASTER doesnt produce an offense with those numbers. The only DISASTER in 2006 was Ben's injuries.



I saw him first-hand in TC last season and liked what I saw. And before you say "TC isn't like playing in a game," I'm well aware of that. Also, a lot of the OL's woes can be attributed to all of the shuffling Tomlin did during TC, rather than sticking with one unit and allowing them to gel. You can't get any type of continuity if you don't know where - or if - you're going to play from day-to-day, week-to-week. You wanted an answer? I just gave you two. But go ahead and continue to put all of the blame on him.

If you know TC isnt like the actual game, why bring it up? I can riff off a list of players that have looked good in past training camps and are now bagging groceries. How did Mahan look during the ACTUAL season? That right there debunks that argument.

And you are blaming the coaches for shuffling the OLine? Teams that are in transition with OLine shuffle the players around ALL THE TIME. We lost Hartings to retirement and Max Starks showed up to camp overweight and in poor shape. Thats why Colon was pretty much handed the job at RT. At center, they tried 3 players, Mahan, Simmons and Kemo. They actually tried Simmons there in 2006 to see how we would fare there after Hartings left. He sucked. They tried him there again last season, and he sucked. Mahan wasnt much better, but he had experience.

I agree continuity is important, but when you lose a great player like Hartings on your OLine, and your starting RT shows up looking like Jabba the Hut, you dont have much of a choice. Larry Zierlein and Bruce Arians both lobbied for Colon to get the job over Starks, not because he was much better, because Starks didnt seem like he cared much.

And I dont put ALL the blame on him. Go back and find where I said Mahan was the SOLE reason for our OLine problems. I said he sucked and the weakest link on the line, and he was, and there is nothing he has done in the past, nor does he have the tools that should make anyone think he will ever be much better.

FourThreeMafia
06-19-2008, 11:30 AM
Sounds like you have followed Mahan since the beginning of his career. If so, why weren't you pointing out what a "panic move" Mahan's signing was by the Steelers at this same time last year?



http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=257587#post257587

I always try to stay optimistic about players that we sign. Some players need a change of scenery to really breakout and thought Mahan could POSSIBLY get better. I listed most of Mahans good qualities there and tried to keep it as optimistic as possible.

As it happens though, he was just as bad in Pittsburgh as he was in Tampa. I didnt think it was a panic move at the time. I thought the Steelers coaching staff seen something in him. Maybe they did, but like I said, OTAs and TC are awful at judging a players talent, which is obviously what they did when they gave him that contract.

X-Terminator
06-19-2008, 05:24 PM
:shake01: Never claimed to be an expert. I have seen him play in Tampa Bay and have seen archive footage of him.

Well that's how you come off.


Most Steeler fans dont have a clue. Most of them are yinzer Sunday fans that dont follow football outside of what they see on Sundays. Thats a weak argument.

Maybe the line was inconsistent, but it didnt suck.

In 2006, our RB ran for nearly 1500 yards and 13 TDs. The sacks stemmed from Ben being 70% at best all season and holding the ball too long. Was the OLine great? No way, but an OLine that sucks or was a DISASTER doesnt produce an offense with those numbers. The only DISASTER in 2006 was Ben's injuries.


Now I'm one who criticizes Steelers fans quite a bit, but most aren't "yinzers" who don't have a clue. Most Steelers fans are quite knowledgeable, and certainly nobody here is your stereotypical "yinzer." And they weren't the only ones who complained about the line in 2005 - many educated fans and media were doing the same. The bottom line is that the OL has had its problems for the past 3 seasons, especially in pass protection. All of those sacks weren't because Ben held on to the ball too long - many times the line was blown up at the LOS, and that was happening long before Mahan got here, which again was the entire point.

If you know TC isnt like the actual game, why bring it up? I can riff off a list of players that have looked good in past training camps and are now bagging groceries. How did Mahan look during the ACTUAL season? That right there debunks that argument.

You wanted an answer to your question, didn't you? I gave you one. If he looked good in TC, then to me, he has to have some kind of talent, right? Plus, not every OL is a stud right away - quite a few take time to develop into a good player. Maybe that's where Mahan is, and that is why I'm willing to give him another chance to prove himself. If he doesn't impress again this season, then I'll be right on the front line calling for him to be cut.

And you are blaming the coaches for shuffling the OLine? Teams that are in transition with OLine shuffle the players around ALL THE TIME. We lost Hartings to retirement and Max Starks showed up to camp overweight and in poor shape. Thats why Colon was pretty much handed the job at RT. At center, they tried 3 players, Mahan, Simmons and Kemo. They actually tried Simmons there in 2006 to see how we would fare there after Hartings left. He sucked. They tried him there again last season, and he sucked. Mahan wasnt much better, but he had experience.

I agree continuity is important, but when you lose a great player like Hartings on your OLine, and your starting RT shows up looking like Jabba the Hut, you dont have much of a choice. Larry Zierlein and Bruce Arians both lobbied for Colon to get the job over Starks, not because he was much better, because Starks didnt seem like he cared much.

And I dont put ALL the blame on him. Go back and find where I said Mahan was the SOLE reason for our OLine problems. I said he sucked and the weakest link on the line, and he was, and there is nothing he has done in the past, nor does he have the tools that should make anyone think he will ever be much better.

Find me ONE good OL that became good because they were shuffled around like cards right up until the start of the regular season. It simply does not happen. Yes, the coaches have to take some of the blame for that, because they know better than anyone that you can't have consistency if you don't have a set line. They should have done the shuffling in the first couple weeks of camp and the first preseason game or 2, but after that, pick your guys and ride them, give them time to develop cohesion. If you don't, you're going to have nothing but problems.

And since you want to throw stats around to show how much our OLs didn't suck in the past despite its well-documented problems, well, the Steelers had the NFL's leading rusher until late in the season and Ben had his best season as a pro behind that OL with Mahan at center. So according to you, they must not have been all that bad.

Preacher
06-19-2008, 05:39 PM
In 2006, our RB ran for nearly 1500 yards and 13 TDs. The sacks stemmed from Ben being 70% at best all season and holding the ball too long. Was the OLine great? No way, but an OLine that sucks or was a DISASTER doesnt produce an offense with those numbers. The only DISASTER in 2006 was Ben's injuries.


.

According to your method... the line sucked worse in 2006 than 2007.

2006 TOTAL RUSHING YARDS 1992
2007 TOTAL RUSHING YARDS 2168

And that was including two games last year where our top rusher was out.

Matter of fact... according to your method, the line last year was almost as good as our SB line:

2005 TOTAL RUSHING YARDS 2223

FourThreeMafia
06-20-2008, 09:35 AM
Well that's how you come off.

No, thats what you assume.

Thats why I dont post here much. You cant voice a negative thought about the Steelers without getting jumped.



Now I'm one who criticizes Steelers fans quite a bit, but most aren't "yinzers" who don't have a clue. Most Steelers fans are quite knowledgeable, and certainly nobody here is your stereotypical "yinzer." And they weren't the only ones who complained about the line in 2005 - many educated fans and media were doing the same. The bottom line is that the OL has had its problems for the past 3 seasons, especially in pass protection. All of those sacks weren't because Ben held on to the ball too long - many times the line was blown up at the LOS, and that was happening long before Mahan got here, which again was the entire point.

Most Steeler fans are knowledgeable about the Steelers, but not football or the NFL in general. Most fans, not just Steeler fans, are casual fans or "Sunday fans" as I call them. They only know what they see on Sundays and what ESPN tells them is true.

Im not saying the line has been perfect all those years, but Steeler fans will complain about anything if its not perfect. A bunch of Steeler fans wanted to bench Ben after the 2006 season. Alot of people wanted to get rid of Cowher prior to 2004. Steeler fans are the most spoiled fans in the league after the Pats. They dont see immediate success and they want to cut ties. As far as Mahan goes, thats different, because he has never been good.

And I didnt say all the sacks were on Ben, but alot of them were.

And I also never said Mahan was responsible for all the sacks. He was responsible for our lack of red zone production and our lack of success running up the middle.

Our OLine is built for run blocking, and it always has been. We dont have the type of players suited to block for a QB that drops back 500+ times in a season. 2005, our line was fine because we didnt pass much.

2006, we passed more, plus Ben wasnt healthy. He held onto the ball too long, plus our tackles arent athletic enough to take on some of the better pass rushing teams.

Same thing in 2007. Only real difference was Ben was healthy. Marvel also had a bad back and Colon, who shouldve never been playing tackle, was put there because Starks showed up to TC overweight.


You wanted an answer to your question, didn't you? I gave you one. If he looked good in TC, then to me, he has to have some kind of talent, right? Plus, not every OL is a stud right away - quite a few take time to develop into a good player. Maybe that's where Mahan is, and that is why I'm willing to give him another chance to prove himself. If he doesn't impress again this season, then I'll be right on the front line calling for him to be cut.

Once again, Mahan sucked in Tampa Bay. He wasnt a rookie last year and he isnt a new player. He is in his 'prime', and this is as good as he will ever be. If anything, he is going to get worse.

People here need to start looking at his whole body of work instead of just last year. If it was JUST LAST YEAR, I would give him another chance as well. Colon sucked too...you dont see me running him out of town. Why? Because it was his first year starting and he doesnt have the tools to be a tackle. His arms are way too short.



Find me ONE good OL that became good because they were shuffled around like cards right up until the start of the regular season. It simply does not happen. Yes, the coaches have to take some of the blame for that, because they know better than anyone that you can't have consistency if you don't have a set line. They should have done the shuffling in the first couple weeks of camp and the first preseason game or 2, but after that, pick your guys and ride them, give them time to develop cohesion. If you don't, you're going to have nothing but problems.

Shuffled like a deck of cards?

LT and LG were already set. Hartings left and we had no suitable replacement for him at center, so they experimented with Kemo and Simmons there. Starks came to camp overweight and out of shape.

You keep talking as if they shuffled the entire OLine, when all they did was try Simmons at center and Colon and Essex at RT. What else do you expect in that situation. Thats more of a testement to the Steelers ignoring the trenches than shuffling it around.

They had no choice but to experiment. It doesnt change the fact that alot of teams shuffle their OLine around in transition. I never said they turned out good.

I agree about cohesion and continuity on the line, but they played together the entire season, and didnt get any better as the season went on. In fact, it got worse.

And since you want to throw stats around to show how much our OLs didn't suck in the past despite its well-documented problems, well, the Steelers had the NFL's leading rusher until late in the season and Ben had his best season as a pro behind that OL with Mahan at center. So according to you, they must not have been all that bad.

If you are going to call me out, at least come at me with something better than this.

And please, read my posts more thoroughly, because you keep bringing up things that I didnt even say.

I never said our entire OLine sucked last year. I came into this thread talking about Mahan sucking, so lets stick to that.

Mahan was constantly manhandled because he is weak and has poor technique. His main area of struggle was the running game. Why do you think we struggled running inside? Better yet, why do you think Ben had so many TDs?

Answer: Because the Steelers couldnt pound it up the gut because Mahan blows. Hartings used to do the pushing. All Mahan did was get pushed back.

Faneca even struggled more due to Mahan sucking. Faneca isnt quite as dominant as he once was, but he was better than he looked last season, but he had to compensate for Mahan sucking.

X-Terminator
06-20-2008, 10:22 AM
No, thats what you assume.

Thats why I dont post here much. You cant voice a negative thought about the Steelers without getting jumped.

I see this said over and over again, and it's even more absurd every time I read it. Plenty of people post negatives about the Steelers on this board and don't get jumped. I guess you'd like to have your opinions go unchallenged? If so, you have the option of starting your own message board where your opinions can be gospel. Otherwise, if you post something, whether it's positive or negative, expect it to be challenged.


Most Steeler fans are knowledgeable about the Steelers, but not football or the NFL in general. Most fans, not just Steeler fans, are casual fans or "Sunday fans" as I call them. They only know what they see on Sundays and what ESPN tells them is true. Im not saying the line has been perfect all those years, but Steeler fans will complain about anything if its not perfect. A bunch of Steeler fans wanted to bench Ben after the 2006 season. Alot of people wanted to get rid of Cowher prior to 2004. Steeler fans are the most spoiled fans in the league after the Pats. They dont see immediate success and they want to cut ties.

Now this we can agree on. See? Even though we disagree in principle, we still found some common ground. I've taken my fair share of heat on this board for calling out Steelers fans and their fickle, spoiled nature, but it isn't going to stop me from doing it. I call it like I see it.

As far as Mahan goes, thats different, because he has never been good. And I didnt say all the sacks were on Ben, but alot of them were.

And I also never said Mahan was responsible for all the sacks. He was responsible for our lack of red zone production and our lack of success running up the middle.

Our OLine is built for run blocking, and it always has been. We dont have the type of players suited to block for a QB that drops back 500+ times in a season. 2005, our line was fine because we didnt pass much.

2006, we passed more, plus Ben wasnt healthy. He held onto the ball too long, plus our tackles arent athletic enough to take on some of the better pass rushing teams.

Same thing in 2007. Only real difference was Ben was healthy. Marvel also had a bad back and Colon, who shouldve never been playing tackle, was put there because Starks showed up to TC overweight.

Agreed with most of this. I never said I didn't agree, in fact. I also know that it's difficult to get an OL that was built for run-blocking to all of a sudden become proficient at pass protection, especially one that was "in transition," as you say. And anyone who was paying attention knows and admits that Mahan was not very good last season. I have done so on 3 occasions now in our little tete-a-tete here. I just won't admit that he was the SOLE reason for the OL's problems, like some of the Mahan bashers have done.

Once again, Mahan sucked in Tampa Bay. He wasnt a rookie last year and he isnt a new player. He is in his 'prime', and this is as good as he will ever be. If anything, he is going to get worse.

People here need to start looking at his whole body of work instead of just last year. If it was JUST LAST YEAR, I would give him another chance as well. Colon sucked too...you dont see me running him out of town. Why? Because it was his first year starting and he doesnt have the tools to be a tackle. His arms are way too short.

Now this is where we fundamentally disagree. I am a believer in giving a player a second chance, particularly in this case since this is his second year with the team. What is so wrong with that? It's your right to want to run him out of town on a rail, but I just won't do that yet. As I've said, if he stinks again or fails to win a starting job, then I will call for him to be cut.

Shuffled like a deck of cards?

LT and LG were already set. Hartings left and we had no suitable replacement for him at center, so they experimented with Kemo and Simmons there. Starks came to camp overweight and out of shape.

You keep talking as if they shuffled the entire OLine, when all they did was try Simmons at center and Colon and Essex at RT. What else do you expect in that situation. Thats more of a testement to the Steelers ignoring the trenches than shuffling it around.

They had no choice but to experiment. It doesnt change the fact that alot of teams shuffle their OLine around in transition. I never said they turned out good.

I agree about cohesion and continuity on the line, but they played together the entire season, and didnt get any better as the season went on. In fact, it got worse.

Now see, you're putting words in MY mouth. I never said they shuffled the entire offensive line. I said that all of the shuffling OTHER THAN LT and LG did not help the line gain any kind of continuity in TC, and THAT is where you build it. Not over the course of a season (it does happen, but not very often). I still stand by my belief that Tomlin and Zierlein should have settled on 5 guys going into the final 1 or 2 preseason games and tried to develop some consistency going into the regular season.

If you are going to call me out, at least come at me with something better than this.

And please, read my posts more thoroughly, because you keep bringing up things that I didnt even say.

I never said our entire OLine sucked last year. I came into this thread talking about Mahan sucking, so lets stick to that.

Mahan was constantly manhandled because he is weak and has poor technique. His main area of struggle was the running game. Why do you think we struggled running inside? Better yet, why do you think Ben had so many TDs?

Answer: Because the Steelers couldnt pound it up the gut because Mahan blows. Hartings used to do the pushing. All Mahan did was get pushed back.

Faneca even struggled more due to Mahan sucking. Faneca isnt quite as dominant as he once was, but he was better than he looked last season, but he had to compensate for Mahan sucking.

So you can use stats as a supporting argument in your favor, but I can't use them in mine? Oooooookay...

And again, I'm fully aware of Mahan's struggles last season. They were obvious to anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of the game of football. But again, I'm not going to throw him under the bus after one season in a STEELERS uniform.

I'm going to bow out of this argument now, because it's really going nowhere. We're not going to agree on this, and at this point we're just regurgitating and rehashing. You have your opinion and I have mine, so we can just agree to disagree.

Steel Buckeye
06-20-2008, 10:16 PM
Mahan is a bum. He needs to be removed entirely from the Steelers front.

Preacher
06-21-2008, 01:10 AM
No, thats what you assume.

Thats why I dont post here much. You cant voice a negative thought about the Steelers without getting jumped.


That is an absolute joke.

I have voiced many questions and "negative thoughts" and have SELDOM been jumped.

The reason, however, is because I try to not make sweeping statements of fact which no one else can (supposedly) deny.

Since last spring I was dogging faneca all year. I thought he was overrated... i thought he was half way out... and I thought that we would actually be BETTER without him.

However, I NEVER was called out on that.

If you keep getting called out, it may be your posting style, rather than your posts....

FourThreeMafia
06-21-2008, 12:58 PM
I see this said over and over again, and it's even more absurd every time I read it. Plenty of people post negatives about the Steelers on this board and don't get jumped. I guess you'd like to have your opinions go unchallenged? If so, you have the option of starting your own message board where your opinions can be gospel. Otherwise, if you post something, whether it's positive or negative, expect it to be challenged.

Maybe plenty of people do post negative things, but Steeler fans are notorious for bashing on fellow fans that criticize the team. It doesnt happen here as much as it happens on Stillers.com and other Steelers boards I have found, but it does happen.

You felt the need to be condescending and call me an "expert", when all I did was bring up a bunch of FACTS about Mahan. Not opinions...FACTS. How many people here even heard of Mahan before we signed him? My guess is not many.

If I came across as complacent or smug, that wasnt my intent. I am blunt and right to the point. I dont always consider how people will view the post.




Now this we can agree on. See? Even though we disagree in principle, we still found some common ground. I've taken my fair share of heat on this board for calling out Steelers fans and their fickle, spoiled nature, but it isn't going to stop me from doing it.

Fair enough.


I call it like I see it.

As do I.


Agreed with most of this. I never said I didn't agree, in fact. I also know that it's difficult to get an OL that was built for run-blocking to all of a sudden become proficient at pass protection, especially one that was "in transition," as you say. And anyone who was paying attention knows and admits that Mahan was not very good last season. I have done so on 3 occasions now in our little tete-a-tete here. I just won't admit that he was the SOLE reason for the OL's problems, like some of the Mahan bashers have done.

I dont want you to admit he was the sole reason for the OLine problems, he wasnt. But he was the weakest link. You could make a case for Colon, but he shouldve never been in there in the first place.

You could actually make a case for Simmons too. Simmons isnt a starting quality guard either. But weve had some pretty good OLines with him, so Im thinking Mahan made him look worse too,

Mahan has been around the block. He has proven on several occasions he is not a quality lineman. He has his good moments, but they are buried beneath a pile of bad ones.

I am not a Mahan basher. I actually defended him for the first 7-8 weeks of the season, even though I seen nothing new from him. By the time the season was over, I knew there was no point of staying behind him, because he was same player he was in Tampa Bay...maybe worse.


Now this is where we fundamentally disagree. I am a believer in giving a player a second chance, particularly in this case since this is his second year with the team. What is so wrong with that? It's your right to want to run him out of town on a rail, but I just won't do that yet. As I've said, if he stinks again or fails to win a starting job, then I will call for him to be cut.

I am also a believer in second chances, but as I said, Ive seen nothing in him that makes me think he will ever be any better. For instance, Nate Washington. Ive torn that guy apart, but he has at least shown flashes of potential and he definitely has the tools.

The problem with Mahan is, his problems stem from things that cant be taught (lack of strength, below average insticts, average at best athlete) and fundamentals he shouldnt have problems with, like his poor technique.

But you have every right to stick behind him. I never bashed you or anyone for being behind him, did I? All I did was bring up the MANY reasons I have no faith in him.



Now see, you're putting words in MY mouth. I never said they shuffled the entire offensive line. I said that all of the shuffling OTHER THAN LT and LG did not help the line gain any kind of continuity in TC, and THAT is where you build it. Not over the course of a season (it does happen, but not very often). I still stand by my belief that Tomlin and Zierlein should have settled on 5 guys going into the final 1 or 2 preseason games and tried to develop some consistency going into the regular season.

Actually...

Find me ONE good OL that became good because they were shuffled around like cards right up until the start of the regular season. It simply does not happen. Yes, the coaches have to take some of the blame for that, because they know better than anyone that you can't have consistency if you don't have a set line. They should have done the shuffling in the first couple weeks of camp and the first preseason game or 2, but after that, pick your guys and ride them, give them time to develop cohesion. If you don't, you're going to have nothing but problems.

I quoted that statement. No where in there did you say anything about LT or LG being said. You said shuffled the line. Maybe you didnt mean the whole line, but that is what you typed, and as much as I wish I was psychic, Im not.

I agree with you, that a line in transition isnt going to develop great chemistry over the course of a season, but here is what Ive noticed...

OLines that get better as the season progresses show potential.

OLines that get worse as the season progress show cause for concern.

Last year, Marvel has a jacked up back. Faneca at times seemed like he was just calling it in. Mahan got manhandled on a regular basis. Simmons was Simmons, which is below average. Colon didnt belong at RT, and last season proved why.

No, its not all on Mahan. My dislike of Mahan doesnt come from just last season. It comes from his ENTIRE body of work.



So you can use stats as a supporting argument in your favor, but I can't use them in mine? Oooooookay...

And again, I'm fully aware of Mahan's struggles last season. They were obvious to anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of the game of football. But again, I'm not going to throw him under the bus after one season in a STEELERS uniform.

I never said anything about you using stats being wrong. I know what our stats were last year.

But when you look at it closer, you see what I mean.

Yes, we had the leagues leading rusher through 15 weeks. BUT, our short yardage and red zone rushing was awful, because Mahan sucks and Simmons isnt much better.

Willie had 2 running TDs last year, down from 13 a year ago. That has alot to do with Mahan replacing Hartings.

You dont have to throw him under the bus. Mahan is already lying under it. Mahan played in a similar blocking scheme in Tampa. All I want to hear is exactly what gives you hope that he can be better. And the "it was his first year in Pittsburgh" argument doesnt really work, because it wasnt lack of chemistry that hurt them last year, it was lack of talent.


I'm going to bow out of this argument now, because it's really going nowhere. We're not going to agree on this, and at this point we're just regurgitating and rehashing. You have your opinion and I have mine, so we can just agree to disagree.

I dont know why you are bowing out. Its a debate. Thats what fuels boards like this.

I am sorry if I came across as an asshole, but I am blunt when it comes to talking about the Steelers. I am strongly opinionated, and on the board that I usually frequent, I deal with alot of Steeler fans that dont really have a clue. They just run their mouths but its all gibberish. Its nice to have an intellegent debate once in awhile, and you obviously know your stuff.

I do respect your opinion of Mahan, even if I strongly disagree.

FourThreeMafia
06-21-2008, 01:21 PM
That is an absolute joke.

I have voiced many questions and "negative thoughts" and have SELDOM been jumped.

The reason, however, is because I try to not make sweeping statements of fact which no one else can (supposedly) deny.

Since last spring I was dogging faneca all year. I thought he was overrated... i thought he was half way out... and I thought that we would actually be BETTER without him.

However, I NEVER was called out on that.

If you keep getting called out, it may be your posting style, rather than your posts....

Well then, tell me, whats wrong with my posts?

I didnt realize I needed to serve my posts with a spoonful of honey. I dont coddle people. I tell it like it is.

And its not JUST here, even though I seen it happen, its Steeler forums in general.

FOR INSTANCE, during the 2006 season , I thought it would be cool to join Stillers.com. I did, made a few posts, and everything was fine. I then posted a new topic critiquing the team, and was pretty hard on a few players, including Polamalu, who is actually my favorite player. Well, the post went on for 5 pages, but most of it was bashing me. I didnt bash any players, I just gave my honest thoughts of the team, and those rednecks CUH-RUSHED ME! One guy even threatened to kill me if he ever met me. lol

Anyway, Im actually not as bad as you may think. Yes, Im blunt with my posts about the Steelers. That will never change and if it makes some people dislike me, oh well. But I do know my stuff. I dont know everything, but I know alot, and if I disagree with someone, I will let them know. If a Steeler fan doesnt have a clue or makes ridiculous comments, I will bludgeon them with my shovel of knowledge.

I already stated in the past this is the best Steelers forum Ive found, with alot of knowledgeable and respectful posters, but it still suffers from alot of the same blatant homerism and sensitivity to criticism that other Steeler forums do.

HometownGal
06-21-2008, 01:29 PM
Well then, tell me, whats wrong with my posts?

I didnt realize I needed to serve my posts with a spoonful of honey. I dont coddle people. I tell it like it is.

And its not JUST here, even though I seen it happen, its Steeler forums in general.

FOR INSTANCE, during the 2006 season , I thought it would be cool to join Stillers.com. I did, made a few posts, and everything was fine. I then posted a new topic critiquing the team, and was pretty hard on a few players, including Polamalu, who is actually my favorite player. Well, the post went on for 5 pages, but most of it was bashing me. I didnt bash any players, I just gave my honest thoughts of the team, and those rednecks CUH-RUSHED ME! One guy even threatened to kill me if he ever met me. lol

Anyway, Im actually not as bad as you may think. Yes, Im blunt with my posts about the Steelers. That will never change and if it makes some people dislike me, oh well. But I do know my stuff. I dont know everything, but I know alot, and if I disagree with someone, I will let them know. If a Steeler fan doesnt have a clue or makes ridiculous comments, I will bludgeon them with my shovel of knowledge.

I already stated in the past this is the best Steelers forum Ive found, with alot of knowledgeable and respectful posters, but it still suffers from alot of the same blatant homerism and sensitivity to criticism that other Steeler forums do.

What is wrong with your posts, imho, is that you come across very condescending and irrational when another member's opinion doesn't coincide with yours. There is a respectful way of debating an opinion(s) with other members and most folks do just that around here. You are right - debate is what makes this board tick, but healthy debate is what makes this board prosper and attract new members.

P.S. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I don't know my football, whether it be the Steelers or the NFL in general. Just for the record, of course. :wink02::chuckle:

FourThreeMafia
06-21-2008, 01:33 PM
What is wrong with your posts, imho, is that you come across very condescending and irrational when another member's opinion doesn't coincide with yours. There is a respectful way of debating an opinion(s) with other members and most folks do just that around here. You are right - debate is what makes this board tick, but healthy debate is what makes this board prosper and attract new members.

P.S. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I don't know my football, whether it be the Steelers or the NFL in general. Just for the record, of course. :wink02::chuckle:

Well, point out a specific example.

I am hardest on myself. If I am wrong, I will admit it.

There is a difference between being condescending and just being blunt. I am the latter, I will admit that. Some people dont like that. Oh well.

And gender really has nothing to do with how much a person knows. I would never dismiss a fans opinion or knowledge based on gender. Thats just stupid.

Preacher
06-21-2008, 05:24 PM
Well, point out a specific example.

I am hardest on myself. If I am wrong, I will admit it.

There is a difference between being condescending and just being blunt. I am the latter, I will admit that. Some people dont like that. Oh well.

And gender really has nothing to do with how much a person knows. I would never dismiss a fans opinion or knowledge based on gender. Thats just stupid.

Saying your just "blunt" is not an excuse. If it causes someone else to not be able to understand what your saying, but rather react against you, you have not communicated... and thus, your bluntness is actually hindering communication.

HometownGal
06-21-2008, 06:50 PM
Well, point out a specific example.

I am hardest on myself. If I am wrong, I will admit it.

There is a difference between being condescending and just being blunt. I am the latter, I will admit that. Some people dont like that. Oh well.

And gender really has nothing to do with how much a person knows. I would never dismiss a fans opinion or knowledge based on gender. Thats just stupid.

I don't have several hours now to point out all of the examples, sorry. :wink02::wink02: I think Preacher says it all very well above. :thumbsup:

Hey - if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it as well. Being able to recognize and acknowledge a mistake builds character and earns respect, at least in my book. :thumbsup:

Again - nothing at all wrong with stating your opinion firmly and confidently. I can respect that. At times you do come across with a superiority complex and that is a huge turn off and puts others on the defensive, which I believe is only a natural reaction. May I suggest toning it down just a bit so that your words aren't taken as an insult to one's intelligence? :drink:

FourThreeMafia
06-21-2008, 07:10 PM
Saying your just "blunt" is not an excuse. If it causes someone else to not be able to understand what your saying, but rather react against you, you have not communicated... and thus, your bluntness is actually hindering communication.


Who hasnt understood what Ive been saying? Last time I checked, everything I typed was pretty concise.

If you mean people misinterpreted me being blunt for being arrogant or whatever, point taken.

FourThreeMafia
06-21-2008, 07:20 PM
I don't have several hours now to point out all of the examples, sorry. :wink02::wink02: I think Preacher says it all very well above. :thumbsup:

Hey - if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it as well. Being able to recognize and acknowledge a mistake builds character and earns respect, at least in my book. :thumbsup:

Again - nothing at all wrong with stating your opinion firmly and confidently. I can respect that. At times you do come across with a superiority complex and that is a huge turn off and puts others on the defensive, which I believe is only a natural reaction. May I suggest toning it down just a bit so that your words aren't taken as an insult to one's intelligence? :drink:

Fair enough. I can respect that.

HometownGal
06-22-2008, 02:06 PM
Fair enough. I can respect that.

Thank you for being a gentleman. :drink:

Preacher
06-22-2008, 04:48 PM
Who hasnt understood what Ive been saying? Last time I checked, everything I typed was pretty concise.

If you mean people misinterpreted me being blunt for being arrogant or whatever, point taken.


I have found myself that people can't see the way posts are intended.


:drink:

HometownGal
06-22-2008, 04:54 PM
I have found myself that people can't see the way posts are intended.


:drink:

It's all in the presentation and delivery, Father. If I question the meaning behind someone's post, I PM them and ask them what they meant. I have done this with you on several occasions, as you know. I think that is the mature way to go about it instead of tearing someone's head off and shit ting down the hole on the open board. :thumbsup:

Preacher
06-22-2008, 05:03 PM
It's all in the presentation and delivery, Father. If I question the meaning behind someone's post, I PM them and ask them what they meant. I have done this with you on several occasions, as you know. I think that is the mature way to go about it instead of tearing someone's head off and shit ting down the hole on the open board. :thumbsup:

:rofl:

Well, depending on someone's NaMe.... :chuckle:


No, you are right...

What I meant was that it is easy to post one way with the thought that it is clear, only have it be very unclear to any and everyone else...

I think it comes from divorcing words from body language and facial expressions....

I know a number of times I have posted something that I thought was simply humorous, only to find that it didn't carry across... or that from a different angle it could be taken very wrong.

Well... sometimes.... however

"The Bengals suck" is pretty self-explanatory. :chuckle:

HometownGal
06-22-2008, 05:12 PM
"The Bengals suck" is pretty self-explanatory. :chuckle:

:thumbsup::chuckle::drink:

millwalldavey
06-22-2008, 08:46 PM
"The Bengals suck" is pretty self-explanatory. :chuckle:
Fairly self-explanatory one there.

Preacher
06-23-2008, 03:03 AM
Fairly self-explanatory one there.


You know, we used to have a thread about that... :tap:

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-23-2008, 12:49 PM
:




"The Bengals suck" is pretty self-explanatory. :chuckle:

Kind of like "Mahan Sucks" is as well.:wink02:

Preacher
06-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Kind of like "Mahan Sucks" is as well.:wink02:

:buttkick:

smithessmokin
06-23-2008, 02:32 PM
He was brought in to play OG not OC. Due to his flexibility and ability to learn multiple positions Tomlin stuck him at center. I think he would be a good pulling gaurd.

no he was not. he was strictly brought in to compete with chuki okobi and he beat him out. end of story. yes, he is a better G than C, but you have to be incompetent to not realize that he was brought in to be a C.

TackleMeBen
06-23-2008, 03:25 PM
no he was not. he was strictly brought in to compete with chuki okobi and he beat him out. end of story. yes, he is a better G than C, but you have to be incompetent to not realize that he was brought in to be a C.

that is right he was brought here to be Center..but since he seemed to suck at center last year, why not give him a chance to play his natural position.. i would rather have him at guard than center and getting our franchise qb killed.

HometownGal
06-23-2008, 03:54 PM
i would rather have him at guard than center and getting our franchise qb killed.

Funny you should mention that. Last night on NFL Replay, I watched the December 15, 2007 Jags v. Steelers game and most of the pressure came at Ben from the LEFT side of the line. I specifically kept my attention focused on the OL the entire game, in which Ben was sacked 5 times. Believe me - I am making no excuses for Mahan's less than stellar play at times last season, but I firmly believe the rest of the OL deserves just as much of the blame for not protecting Ben. Mahan, unfortunately, is the scapegoat du jour and as I've said many times, I feel that is blatantly unfair.

TackleMeBen
06-23-2008, 03:57 PM
Funny you should mention that. Last night on NFL Replay, I watched the December 15, 2007 Jags v. Steelers game and most of the pressure came at Ben from the LEFT side of the line. I specifically kept my attention focused on the OL the entire game, in which Ben was sacked 5 times. Believe me - I am making no excuses for Mahan's less than stellar play at times last season, but I firmly believe the rest of the OL deserves just as much of the blame for not protecting Ben. Mahan, unfortunately, is the scapegoat du jour and as I've said many times, I feel that is blatantly unfair.

i watched that game yesterday and this morning too... and i am not just blaming mahan. i thought the whole OLine blew last year and i am all for a whole new line which i know cant happen, but in a perfect world maybe :wink02:..

btw did you notice the announcer referring to ben as a stud when he made that little pass to parker with all those defenders on him..

rbryan
06-23-2008, 05:01 PM
I just watched that game..........again.........I'm sick to my stomach..........again.

FWIW I thought Mahan held his own when he was matched one on one. He didn't have anyone to block on a lot of plays due to the Jags overloading one side or the other. Seems to me he should be making an adjustment to get in somebodys way as opposed to standing there and doing nothing.

Or maybe Mahans play just seemed OK when compared to the Stillers run defense.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-24-2008, 12:14 AM
yes, he is a better G than C, but you have to be incompetent to not realize that he was brought in to be a C.

Actually, regardless of position......Mahan is better when somebody isnt lined up over him.

He can cut and reach with success, has good overall range, and has good technique. However, his strength and power are often a problem, namely in the short area. He wont dominate if asked to hold the line and pass protect. Hes easily pushed around by larger DTs and, if hes not given the angle, hell struggle to finish his tasks.

http://www.fantasyfootball.com/artic...article_id=524

To say that he is better at guard or center is difficult, because it really depends if the defense is playing a 4-3 or a 3-4. Here is what the Tampa Bay fans thought of him in May of 2007 before he signed with the steelers.

-He's nothing more than a career backup....unless you appreciate mediocrity at a position where you need nothing short of superiority.

-I honestly don't think he'll be back next year. The Buccaneers aren't one to over pay players on a regular basis and with the amount of money teams have in free cap space this year, someone will overpay him.

-horrible at guard, but i think he could be a good center.

-The consensus in Tampa Bay was that his natural (future) position was centre. He was never able to overthrow Wade for the starting spot, and played quite poorly as an injury fill in at guard.

I am happy that the Bucs are looking elsewhere for a centre.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...ead.php?t=3070

Mahan isnt the only O line player that played poorly last season, but he is the 2nd best center and 4th best guard on the team currently and honestly I dont care. He will not win a starting job this season anyways.....guaranteed!

Lord Stiller
06-24-2008, 07:15 AM
Actually, regardless of position......Mahan is better when somebody isnt lined up over him.

He can cut and reach with success, has good overall range, and has good technique. However, his strength and power are often a problem, namely in the short area. He wont dominate if asked to hold the line and pass protect. Hes easily pushed around by larger DTs and, if hes not given the angle, hell struggle to finish his tasks.

http://www.fantasyfootball.com/artic...article_id=524

To say that he is better at guard or center is difficult, because it really depends if the defense is playing a 4-3 or a 3-4. Here is what the Tampa Bay fans thought of him in May of 2007 before he signed with the steelers.

-He's nothing more than a career backup....unless you appreciate mediocrity at a position where you need nothing short of superiority.

-I honestly don't think he'll be back next year. The Buccaneers aren't one to over pay players on a regular basis and with the amount of money teams have in free cap space this year, someone will overpay him.

-horrible at guard, but i think he could be a good center.

-The consensus in Tampa Bay was that his natural (future) position was centre. He was never able to overthrow Wade for the starting spot, and played quite poorly as an injury fill in at guard.

I am happy that the Bucs are looking elsewhere for a centre.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...ead.php?t=3070

Mahan isnt the only O line player that played poorly last season, but he is the 2nd best center and 4th best guard on the team currently and honestly I dont care. He will not win a starting job this season anyways.....guaranteed!

good post

this is the worst thread ever. boo hoo poor Mahan :blah:

Mahan sucks

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-24-2008, 09:45 AM
good post

this is the worst thread ever.

I agree. The one post from the Bucs forum that I find really ironic for the alleged cheap Steelers who do such a good job at scouting is.

The Buccaneers aren't one to over pay players on a regular basis and with the amount of money teams have in free cap space this year, someone will overpay him.

I guess that someone was Pittsburgh:banging:

Tankus_Maximus
06-24-2008, 09:55 AM
damn....my bad.....I just saw the words "Cut Mahan" and was hoping the FO finally came to their senses....my bad.

Steel Buckeye
06-28-2008, 11:53 PM
Lets not forget Mahan was dominated by Dewayne Robertson, possibly the worst 3-4 nose tackle in the league. I'm surprised Mahan still has a job in the NFL, he is terrible.

Preacher
06-29-2008, 01:13 AM
Interestingly.. I am actually not a Mahan supporter..

I just don't believe in sacrificial goats.

I think Mahan was one of the worst players on the team last year. it is just that, Colon, Faneca, Smith, and Simmons were the ones he was among... and thus it is unfair to point to him out of them all.


Well...

there really was no reason to restate the post...

Elvis
06-29-2008, 07:54 AM
:coffee: I'm sure the coaching staff will get things together and figure out what is good for the team and what isnt.. we are just folks that are looking for the better for our team..

Haiku_Dirtt
06-29-2008, 12:05 PM
he sucked at center, so hopefully this season he can play at his rightful position of guard and kick butt.

Agreed. Yet he played probably better than the rest sans Faneca. :doh:

HometownGal
06-29-2008, 02:45 PM
Why hasn't this thread died yet? :doh:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Why hasn't this thread died yet? :doh:

Because we keep trying to decide if the inability of Mahan to block professional players of maximum girth is more a direct result of greater/lesser points of balance and leverage as opposed to that of speed/agility....or if its more based on who is the hottest all-grown-up child actress..Alyssa Milano or Hayden Panettiere.
:poke:

lilyoder6
06-29-2008, 09:44 PM
i would have to go w/ alyssa milano.. she is very very very good looking

Preacher
06-30-2008, 03:20 AM
Because we keep trying to decide if the inability of Mahan to block professional players of maximum girth is more a direct result of greater/lesser points of balance and leverage as opposed to that of speed/agility....or if its more based on who is the hottest all-grown-up child actress..Alyssa Milano or Hayden Panettiere.
:poke:

I beleive hayden is still a youth...

IMDB Mini Biography:

Hayden Leslie Panettiere was born on 21st August 1989 in Palisades, New York..

well...18.

revefsreleets
06-30-2008, 08:49 AM
It IS kind of funny, though...If Mahan was as awful as most of the people seemed to think, the Steelers would either cut him, trade him, or put him in the "Duce Staley Special" grey sweats brigade.

They obviously think he can still contribute, and he keeps showing up on depth charts at the #1 C even after Hartwig was added, so we'll just all have to be content to see what we can see when the time comes.

lilyoder6
06-30-2008, 09:01 AM
doesn't matter how old hayden is i think milano was and still is hotter than hayden

MasterOfPuppets
06-30-2008, 11:01 AM
It IS kind of funny, though...If Mahan was as awful as most of the people seemed to think, the Steelers would either cut him, trade him, or put him in the "Duce Staley Special" grey sweats brigade.

They obviously think he can still contribute, and he keeps showing up on depth charts at the #1 C even after Hartwig was added, so we'll just all have to be content to see what we can see when the time comes.the steelers also allowed korkie to stink up the place for quite a few years.they also allowed okolbi to collect bench welfare checks for 5 years.....duping the fans into believing the position was secure for years to come .:hunch:

HometownGal
06-30-2008, 11:56 AM
It IS kind of funny, though...If Mahan was as awful as most of the people seemed to think, the Steelers would either cut him, trade him, or put him in the "Duce Staley Special" grey sweats brigade.



My thoughts exactly, revs. I posted as such earlier in this thread.

I'm going to give the guy a chance to prove himself in TC and most importantly, the season. If he can't cut it, hasta la vista Sean.

Preacher
06-30-2008, 01:48 PM
My thoughts exactly, revs. I posted as such earlier in this thread.

I'm going to give the guy a chance to prove himself in TC and most importantly, the season. If he can't cut it, hasta la vista Sean.

Ding ding ding.

revefsreleets
06-30-2008, 02:09 PM
Foe every Okobi, there are 5 guys like James Harrison, dudes who just "hang around" then get their chance and break out.

Apples and oranges. If Mahan continues to suck, I'll be the president of the "Cut Sean Mahan" Fan Club.