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View Full Version : what to expect w/o faneca


tony hipchest
06-16-2008, 04:43 PM
i tend to be a bit more optomistic than this article is, but it is definitely food for thought.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=F818FB8A9BF1754700AD7DBCE1A53C40? id=09000d5d808dab0e&template=with-video&confirm=true

Faneca could be latest guard to have big impact on new team
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst


Sometimes it feels like everyone talks about left tackles on offense as if they are the only linemen that count. Ruben Brown has been to nine Pro Bowls but he's hardly in the conversation as a Hall of Fame candidate. Larry Allen struggles to keep up with Jonathan Ogden when I pose the question about who deserves to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Elite guards Larry Allen, Steve Hutchinson and Eric Steinbach each changed teams recently and all three had a big impact on their new clubs. Can the Jets' Alan Faneca figure to have a similar impact on the Jets next season?

Well, the question entering the 2008 season when it comes to offensive guards is actually a two-parter: How much will the Steelers miss Alan Faneca and how much improvement can the Jets expect to have with Faneca in their lineup?

To project the answer to these questions, I went back and looked at three elite guards who recently left their original teams and moved on for financial reasons. Larry Allen left the Cowboys after the 2005 season for the 49ers; Steve Hutchinson left the Seahawks for the Vikings after the 2005 season; and Eric Steinbach bolted from the Bengals after 2006 for division-rival Cleveland. The outcome of these three departures should be a good indicator of the impact Faneca will have in 2008.

It may also be a hint as to what the Giants have to consider with Chris Snee coming to the end of his contract in 2008.

In 2005, the last season Allen played for the Cowboys, Dallas ranked 13th as a rushing club in the NFL. In 2006, they remained the 13th-ranked rushing team and continued to rush the ball at 3.7 yards per carry. Not much of an impact on the Cowboys when they let Allen go -- but his impact on the 49ers offense was significant. The year before Allen arrived in the Bay Area, the 49ers were the 17th-ranked rushing team. Allen's first season saw the team jump all the way up to no. 6 rushing the football.

In 2005, the Seahawks were the no. 3 rushing team and most of the running plays were designed to follow Hutchinson. The year after he left for Minnesota, the Seahawks dropped to 14th and the rushing average dropped from 4.7 yards per carry to 4.0. Hutchinson's arrival in Minnesota in 2006 spiked the Vikings' running game, which was no. 27 before he got to there, to 16th in his first season at guard.

When Steinbach left the Bengals, they continued to be a below-average running team, but the Browns went from no. 31 in the league to 10th -- and Steinbach led the way on many of those plays.

The Steelers were the third-best rushing team with Faneca sealing the point of attack either as a pulling guard on plays to the right or drive blocking on runs to the left. Can the Steelers keep up their rich rushing tradition without Faneca? The Seahawks couldn't without Hutchinson and, like Pittsburgh, they were the third-ranked rushing team when their All Pro guard led the way.

It appears the Steelers will probably drop off. As for the Jets, they should expect their running game to jump from 19th to somewhere closer to 12th. Thomas Jones should have a lot more good-sized holes to run through with Faneca blocking the point of attack. The average jump in league ranking when the elite guards switched teams was 14 spots in the team ranking in the first year , so a Jets move of seven spots could be considered conservative.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-16-2008, 05:48 PM
I believe that. The only thing is they may have the 7th best rushing attack instead of the 3rd and an improved passing game because Arians likes that game anyways.

The smart thing to do is establish the line early in camp, get them working together and call the game to their skills.....not the skills you had when Faneca was there.

Rhee Rhee
06-16-2008, 05:58 PM
the jets IMO are oozing with talent on their o-line...i think something like 4 of their projected starters are all 1st round draft picks...

and as gonzo pointed out our rushing game will only drop due to the continued emergence of BR and the amount of talent we currently have at WR

steelymcmatt
06-16-2008, 06:46 PM
Got to agree....as much as we hate to admit it, the NFL has become a pass-to-set-up-the-run league and we're falling in line. I see us with a lot more 3-4 wr sets this year.

revefsreleets
06-16-2008, 06:50 PM
Shawn Alexander injured his foot the year after Hutch left the Squaks, and it was early in the season, too, late September, I believe. That probably made a bit of a difference, no?

But the article made no mention of that.

And the Browns had pretty much a bunch of nobodies running the ball before Steinbach got there. Coincidence that they actually had a decent RB in Jamal Lewis when their stock improved?

Shoddy reporting at best.

duma
06-16-2008, 07:48 PM
If we could view the loss of a lineman in a fish bowl then I imagine we could contribute the success of a team and failure of another to the loss of one important player. Truth be told though, there is much more to the success and failures of each of the teams the author used to establish how things will turn out surrounding Faneca's departure.

I don't mean to suggest that Seattle would have been the same with Hutchinson in 2006, but likewise, he can't ignore injuries and the like to be a source in the loss of production. The loss of Fanceca will have an impact, but the removal of Mahan will too.

tony hipchest
06-16-2008, 11:20 PM
Shoddy reporting at best.

lol.

well, kirwan is hardly a reporter, which is why id give much more credence to the analysis, insight, and opinion to him, than someone like adam schefter.

while the likes of e. bouchette and p. king are on vacation in the "off season", somebody is providing research and recent historical data to support their opinion that the steelers rushing game will not improve from 3rd best, in '08. im pretty sure the addition of faneca will only help the rushing game of the jets. :noidea:

....and walter jones + hutchinson made alexander, not vice versa (bum ankle or not).

Preacher
06-17-2008, 02:57 AM
Two years from now... maybe three... though I doubt it, people will be once again wondering how the Rooney's gaze into their crystal ball and see the end of a players career before even the player does.

Fanaca blew too many places last year for his departure to be the disruption to the run game that it is being made out to be.

KeiselPower99
06-17-2008, 10:53 AM
During the Baltimore game last year when we was resting certain players Kemoeatu looked a whole hell of a lot better then Faneca did in that game or most of the season. Might not mean anything but Kemo is the key to the O line this year. Its kinda wierd to think about but a 11-5 team could have 3 new starters on the O line alone. We will be better then people expect but losing Faneca is a blow.

missedgehead
06-17-2008, 01:24 PM
There were times when Faneca was as much a turnstyle as anyone else. However, it will be a blow to lose him

paw-n-maul-u
06-17-2008, 02:13 PM
Alexander played on a bum foot the whole year. Althought Hutchinson DID help him break the TD record, not for long tho.

Frank Gore emerged in san francisco. You cannot tell me that was solely due in part to Larry Allen.

Kirwan could have touched a little more on the current situations for all the above mentioned teams.
And for minny. Didn't chestor Taylor also arrive the year that the vikings run D did good. And didn't they go from Brad Johnson (who actually played really decent for them) ... to T. Jackson who sucks/sucked. Didn't Childress take over that year too? who loves to run the ball?

Dallas lost allen, sure, but their whole line was practically in the probowl this season. Leonard Davis (L.A. replacement), did awesome.

Cincy fought Injury problems with Rudi all year after Eric left.

Not so much shoddy reporting, but there is a lot more extraneous factors not mentioned. And i am a big kirwan fan. Now, I didnt check to look all that up, but im pretty sure im right on the dot

paw-n-maul-u
06-17-2008, 02:15 PM
Big Ben could throw for 30+ TD's and 4000 yards, vualting 17th ranked passing to top ten, and steelers could dip a little down in rushing, and someone would say "see, told ya so. Lost your way, mentality, etc etc , once faneca left

Dino 6 Rings
06-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Cut down on sacks first and foremost. the Running game will be there with Parker and Moore and Mendenhall. I fear not the lack of a running game in Pittsburgh. People won't be loading up the box either, not with Ward, Holmes and now Sweed out in 3 wide sets. We'll be running against the nickle a ton this year and that spells great rushing numbers.

Go ahead and go one on one with our receivers this season and see if Ben doesn't break his own record.

I agree with Preacher, Faneca had more holding and false start penalties last season then I can ever remember. Mahan was a weak link at Center as well and we have addressed that by bringing in a Center Veteran to pick up that spot.

We'll be fine.

rich4eagle
06-17-2008, 03:34 PM
Faneca did not play so well last year and got pro bowl on recognition more than top play. The Steelers again made the move to let guys go with huge pay now past their best years. That is why every year the Steelers are a competitor. It is called astute management!

Preacher
06-17-2008, 05:22 PM
Faneca did not play so well last year and got pro bowl on recognition more than top play. The Steelers again made the move to let guys go with huge pay now past their best years. That is why every year the Steelers are a competitor. It is called astute management!

Rich4...

For all the disagreement we have on two different boards...

This is one post that I absolutely agree with...

rich4eagle
06-17-2008, 05:41 PM
Oh, I am not just blowing in the wind like the every day fan..........but indeed have basis for whatever I say.........even if I confuse folks with grammar to test their intelligence

and I been following the Steelers since the early sixties.........:tt:

They addressed the key positions again and others think the wrong things are key positions

see yah here or there but I have he prospensity to get kicked off there every few months for being too smart

and I do appreciate your posts and view..........:thumbsup:

Preacher
06-17-2008, 05:54 PM
Oh, I am not just blowing in the wind like the every day fan..........but indeed have basis for whatever I say.........even if I confuse folks with grammar to test their intelligence

and I been following the Steelers since the early sixties.........:tt:

They addressed the key positions again and others think the wrong things are key positions

see yah here or there but I have he prospensity to get kicked off there every few months for being too smart

and I do appreciate your posts and view..........:thumbsup:

Hold on a second.. Everything you post over there... are you just screwing with people... or do you actually hold to the things you say? Cause if you're just screwing with people.... you are doing a DANG good job at it! :toofunny:

rich4eagle
06-17-2008, 05:56 PM
you beturass..................read the real and live with spin.........

I screw with em big time and I do know my football as well as anyone

the key is listen when I speak about what makes wininig football:tt03:

Preacher
06-17-2008, 05:59 PM
you beturass..................read the real and live with spin.........

I screw with em big time and I do know my football as well as anyone

everything in the politics section?? YOu gotta be kidding me!!

rich4eagle
06-17-2008, 06:02 PM
Oh I know my politics and it is all truth I do not need spin to expose the lies and corruption and murderous behavior called a just war


and that itself spins a nation draped in a flag of blood:banging:

HometownGal
06-17-2008, 06:06 PM
Sometimes it feels like everyone talks about left tackles on offense as if they are the only linemen that count.

The same could be said for C's around here. :coffee:

So many people, including the sports media, felt that the Steelers D would have a big, gaping hole when Joey Porter left and though I loved Joey and the leadership he brought to the locker room and intensity he brought out onto the field, we didn't really miss him. Somehow, I think the Steelers will find a way to fill that LT gap left by Faneca's departure. I am not looking for whoever ultimately fills that spot to be a perennial Pro Bowler like Faneca, though that would be great, but more of a guy who will come out there every week and, give 150%, pull his share of the load and make the plays necessary for the OL overall to be successful.

Preacher
06-17-2008, 06:12 PM
The same could be said for C's around here. :coffee:

So many people, including the sports media, felt that the Steelers D would have a big, gaping hole when Joey Porter left and though I loved Joey and the leadership he brought to the locker room and intensity he brought out onto the field, we didn't really miss him. Somehow, I think the Steelers will find a way to fill that LT gap left by Faneca's departure. I am not looking for whoever ultimately fills that spot to be a perennial Pro Bowler like Faneca, though that would be great, but more of a guy who will come out there every week and, give 150%, pull his share of the load and make the plays necessary for the OL overall to be successful.

But HTG.. the center is the cause of every problem... didn't you know that? :hunch:

Funny. i think we weren't looking for a perennial pro-bowler to fill Peezy's shoes either.... how did that work out? :chuckle:

I guess we have to go with words that you and I have both quoted on this board..

TRUST THE ROONEY'S!

Heck... We dropped Peezy and found plugged in Harrison. I trust the Rooney's to make the right choice at center... oh yeah.. and I GIVE THEM TIME to figure it out as well.

steelymcmatt
06-17-2008, 07:00 PM
There were times when Faneca was as much a turnstyle as anyone else. However, it will be a blow to lose him

As I've posted elsewhere, I do think Faneca has lost a step or two in the last 2 years when it comes to pass protection. Not to say he won't be a pro-bowler this year, but he's certainly not the same player he was.

revefsreleets
06-18-2008, 10:04 AM
OK, let's call it shoddy prognosticating. Kirwan is trying to make the facts fit his arguments, and not vice versa.

The Jets running game will improve because Faneca is still a very good blocking guard, and he will act as glue for a still relatively young OL (Ferguson and Mangold are only in their, what? 3rd year now?). But he'd have been better off just leaving it at that...

ChronoCross
06-18-2008, 01:24 PM
Its a Sunday game, your sitting there watching the game and all the sudden you see Faneca a premiere guard for us just look at a defensive guy go right by him and the sad thing about it you could see Faneca look at the defensive guy and not even put his arms out to stop are change the defensive guys momentum. All you could do is sit back and say WTF was that Faneca.

So am I going to miss crybaby Faneca over some money no. Faneca has clearly lost a step in his age and you could even see that in his season even before last. Faneca even tho he lost a step was a avg run blocker but at crappy at pass blocking,

The loss of any of are Centers over the years and decades has always been are biggest loss on the line. You can always replace a Faneca but it seems this team is having troubles finding that next great Center for us who will help create a solid foundation for that line.

rich4eagle
06-18-2008, 04:56 PM
But HTG.. the center is the cause of every problem... didn't you know that? :hunch:

Funny. i think we weren't looking for a perennial pro-bowler to fill Peezy's shoes either.... how did that work out? :chuckle:

I guess we have to go with words that you and I have both quoted on this board..

TRUST THE ROONEY'S!

Heck... We dropped Peezy and found plugged in Harrison. I trust the Rooney's to make the right choice at center... oh yeah.. and I GIVE THEM TIME to figure it out as well.

Preacher the great Paul Brown said that the center was the key position on the Oline............and indeed they are very important......lately LT has vastly overshadowed the center in importance to pundits.........not that it is necessarily true:tt02: