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View Full Version : Interesting: Bettis on the end of Kordell


SteelersJW
06-21-2008, 06:34 PM
I read this in Jerome Bettis' My Life In and Out of a Helmet. He made some points about the Kordell situation that I had never thought of before. We're very lucky Ben's contract worked out the way it did and didn't end up the way Bettis describes Kordell's situation.

Here it is:

Nothing against Tommy, but I always had my doubts that he won the job fair and sqaure. Kordell was coming off a Pro Bowl year and was going into the last year of his contract. The Steelers wanted to renegotiate his contract before he became a free agent, but Kordell was probably going to be too rich for their blood.

Anybody who tells you money isn't a factor in personnel decisions doesn't know the NFL. I can't prove it, but in my heart I really believe that Kordell was set up for failure that season. You've got a guy who just took you to the AFC Championship, had one of his best years ever...and you're going to give him the quick hook three games into the season? You bench your Pro Bowl quarterback for a guy who had been out of football for years, who hadn't started an NFL game in ten seasons? That just doesn't happen by accident.

HometownGal
06-21-2008, 06:43 PM
You bench your Pro Bowl quarterback for a guy who had been out of football for years, who hadn't started an NFL game in ten seasons?

I love ya Jerome, but take off the buddy glasses and put down the Kordell kool-aid and get it through your cranium that Kordumbell's own play and attitude caused him to be benched in favor of Tommy. Don't forget that it was the QB "who had been out of football for years" who led the team to the 2nd round of the playoffs that season and probably would have led them into the AFCC had it not been for the Oscar winning performance of Nedney.

fansince'76
06-21-2008, 06:57 PM
I love ya Jerome, but take off the buddy glasses and put down the Kordell kool-aid and get it through your cranium that Kordumbell's own play and attitude caused him to be benched in favor of Tommy.

Couldn't agree more. It was also his (subpar) play in big games that effectively cost us two Super Bowl trips. Kordell was an incredible athlete, but he sucked as a QB, bottom line.

Give It To Abercrombie
06-21-2008, 07:09 PM
I was irritated his benching didn't come long before. He had some success for sure, but I always felt he would never be able to take us the whole way.

MasterOfPuppets
06-21-2008, 07:49 PM
its no secret biographies loaded with scandal theories, sell better than ones without. way to throw the organization that treated you so well ,under the "bus" (no pun intended) for $$$. :thumbsup:

millwalldavey
06-21-2008, 08:34 PM
The only game he should have ever started @ QB was the Super Bowl vs. Dallas.

BlastFurnace
06-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Perhaps Jerome was thinking more about the Post Game Meal when all of these things were going on during the game and didn't notice what was going on. I believe his quotes about Kordell as much as I believe that Jerome played at his listed weight of 255 his entire career.

BlastFurnace
06-21-2008, 09:25 PM
I was irritated his benching didn't come long before. He had some success for sure, but I always felt he would never be able to take us the whole way.

The only Steelers QB's that I felt was worse than Kordell since Bradshaw retired were Mark Malone and Kent Graham.

lilyoder6
06-21-2008, 09:50 PM
i remember those days when kordell was qb when we had famous amous at rb w/ jerome

Preacher
06-21-2008, 10:06 PM
I don't know....

I have always had a bit more patience with Kordell then most Steelers fans.

fansince'76
06-21-2008, 10:16 PM
I don't know....

I have always had a bit more patience with Kordell then most Steelers fans.

I was patient with him too, until the '01 AFCCG. We had the ball twice in the last 5 minutes of that game trailing 24-17, and he threw picks to kill both drives. That was enough for me. I was thrilled when he finally got the hook early in the '02 season.

Preacher
06-21-2008, 10:26 PM
I was patient with him too, until the '01 AFCCG game. We had the ball twice in the last 5 minutes of that game trailing 24-17, and he threw picks to kill both drives. That was enough for me. I was thrilled when he finally got the hook early in the '02 season.

Reflecting on that game...

Wasn't it special teams that failed as well there?

Hmmmm....

Maybe special teams was such a downfall the last couple years, rather, it really has been that bad for a long time, and was just covered up by some great play in other places?

fansince'76
06-21-2008, 10:31 PM
Reflecting on that game...

Wasn't it special teams that failed as well there?

Hmmmm....

Maybe special teams was such a downfall the last couple years, rather, it really has been that bad for a long time, and was just covered up by some great play in other places?

Granted, the STs put us in a big hole in that game, but the fact remains we had not one, but two chances at the end to possibly tie it up and go into OT, or even win it, and he throws both opportunities away. It wasn't STs that killed those last two drives, it was Kordell. A legit QB makes the plays in those situations. Kordell didn't - not in that game or the '97 AFCCG, where he also threw 3 picks. I gave him a pass for the '97 AFCCG, since it was his first full year as a starter. I wasn't willing to give him a pass after his fifth full year as the starter when he was still making the same kinds of stupid mistakes in the same situations.

MACH1
06-21-2008, 10:37 PM
All this over a qb who could only see half the field. The left or right, had plays drawn up for just that reason. He should have never been a full time qb, he should have stayed in the slash roll. IMO

Just ask yourself every time he went back for a pass you said to yourself 'Please don't throw an interception'. I know I did.

Steelman16
06-21-2008, 11:07 PM
Just ask yourself every time he went back for a pass you said to yourself 'Please don't throw an interception'. I know I did.

That's the thing. If you cringe every time a guy has to make a play, there's something wrong.

With Big Ben, I might hold my breath, but I never cringe. I remember a 3rd-and-18 situation last year, I believe against the Jags in the regular season, and I was like, "oh crap". We go in I-form, and I'm like "Gah! Where's the third reciever we need for this play!?" But I never cringed.

Ben drops back and under pressure fires a 17 yard bullet into Miller's chest right between the two covering linebackers. Miller falls forward the extra yard. First down, 10 to go.

Of course when he throws an interception I yell and scream like the rest of us, but my faith in him never really wavers. I remember the Denver game last year. We didn't win it, but by golly that boy is a warrior.

Bottom line. We have the real deal. Who cares about what Jerome says about a quarterback that shoulda run track anyway.

Preacher
06-21-2008, 11:32 PM
Granted, the STs put us in a big hole in that game, but the fact remains we had not one, but two chances at the end to possibly tie it up and go into OT, or even win it, and he throws both opportunities away. It wasn't STs that killed those last two drives, it was Kordell. A legit QB makes the plays in those situations. Kordell didn't - not in that game or the '97 AFCCG, where he also threw 3 picks. I gave him a pass for the '97 AFCCG, since it was his first full year as a starter. I wasn't willing to give him a pass after his fifth full year as the starter when he was still making the same kinds of stupid mistakes in the same situations.

Sorry....

that wasn't my point....

I really was starting to think about our ST's.... I know, wrong thread... or hijacking a thread!!

But just how bad has our ST's been for how long?

Steeldude
06-22-2008, 12:07 AM
the only QBs i thought were worse than KS were...uh...well there was...no...maybe...

LVSteelersfan
06-22-2008, 12:16 AM
The only Steelers QB's that I felt was worse than Kordell since Bradshaw retired were Mark Malone and Kent Graham.

Huh, you actually think Bubby Brister and Cliff Stoudt were better than Kordell? Surely you jest. I am not a huge Kordell fan but he was better than those stiffs. I honestly think Maddox was a better pocket QB than Kordell. He just couldn't throw the out route for the life of him. Kordell couldn't hit the ocean with a football standing on the shore about half the time. Kind of like Michael Vick, Vince Young, Tarvaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, etc. Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL. Teams will never learn.

MACH1
06-22-2008, 12:36 AM
That's the thing. If you cringe every time a guy has to make a play, there's something wrong.

With Big Ben, I might hold my breath, but I never cringe. I remember a 3rd-and-18 situation last year, I believe against the Jags in the regular season, and I was like, "oh crap". We go in I-form, and I'm like "Gah! Where's the third reciever we need for this play!?" But I never cringed.

Ben drops back and under pressure fires a 17 yard bullet into Miller's chest right between the two covering linebackers. Miller falls forward the extra yard. First down, 10 to go.

Of course when he throws an interception I yell and scream like the rest of us, but my faith in him never really wavers. I remember the Denver game last year. We didn't win it, but by golly that boy is a warrior.

Bottom line. We have the real deal. Who cares about what Jerome says about a quarterback that shoulda run track anyway.

Yeah Ben has boneheaded plays at times but not all the time, he gambles a bit more than just making stupid plays like kordell. A lot of times Ben has the ability to make something happen where kordell would panic. Kordell looked lost most of the time even though he had a probowl season but so did palmer. :noidea: And what does that win ya. Also kordell was a horrible pocket passer.

Good thing we had Bettis with a running game and a bad ass D to make him look that good.

Black@Gold Forever32
06-22-2008, 02:39 AM
Kordell just didn't have the moxy to be an NFL starting QB....When he had a bad play you could just see his confidence sink.....Plus he couldn't read a defense to save his life...lol

Kordell deserves the criticism for his poor plays in those games.....But I will never understand the hatred or dislike that some fans have for him?....I'm not a fan of his by no means anymore....But I hold no hard feelings toward him and do remember some of the good times he had with the team...He sure had more good times then Tammy Maddox......lol

I agree that the change to Maddox should have happened in 2002....Kordell stunk up the joint early on and the Steelers needed a spark...I also agree that the Steelers should have ridden Tommy all year while he was on his hot streak.....But Maddox was just as bad as Kordell...lol He was a one year wonder and thats it....Kordell at least had two good years with the team......I also don't hate Tommy at all....The 2002 was a fun year with him at QB...

There is only one ex-Steeler that I totally hate and that is Neil O'Donnell......He lost an AFC title game and a Super Bowl....Thats worse then Kordell...lol....O'Donnell can burn in hell for all I care....lol

BlastFurnace
06-22-2008, 06:26 AM
Huh, you actually think Bubby Brister and Cliff Stoudt were better than Kordell? Surely you jest. I am not a huge Kordell fan but he was better than those stiffs. I honestly think Maddox was a better pocket QB than Kordell. He just couldn't throw the out route for the life of him. Kordell couldn't hit the ocean with a football standing on the shore about half the time. Kind of like Michael Vick, Vince Young, Tarvaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, etc. Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL. Teams will never learn.\

Brister yes, Stoudt....I forgot about him, but no.

I think it's safe to say that Steeler QB's after Bradshaw left much to be desired.

Steeldude
06-22-2008, 06:53 AM
i'll take brister or stoudt over KS any day.

HometownGal
06-22-2008, 07:04 AM
i'll take brister or stoudt over KS any day.

Brister, yes, Stoudt I'd have to really think long and hard on. :chuckle:

Kordell was gifted athletically, but had a puddin' head. He couldn't think fast enough to get himself out of a jam most times and had a major attitude problem. As someone else mentioned above, he also couldn't read a defense to save his soul. As I do with every former Steelers player, I appreciate the accomplishments they made while wearing the black and gold (and that includes Kordell) but in Kordodo's case, I was glad to see him given the heave ho - finally. I've always believed Cowher gave him way too many chances.

stlrtruck
06-22-2008, 07:30 AM
As much as Bettis may want to think that coaches and owners had it in for him, I think it was Kordell who wanted to prove he was a pure QB and not a slash and that was what got him where he ended up!

Galax Steeler
06-22-2008, 07:30 AM
Brister, yes, Stoudt I'd have to really think long and hard on. :chuckle:

I would have to agree definetly Brister but I don't think Stoudt could have held a candel to Kordell.

BlastFurnace
06-22-2008, 09:09 AM
Brister, yes, Stoudt I'd have to really think long and hard on. :chuckle:

Kordell was gifted athletically, but had a puddin' head. He couldn't think fast enough to get himself out of a jam most times and had a major attitude problem. As someone else mentioned above, he also couldn't read a defense to save his soul. As I do with every former Steelers player, I appreciate the accomplishments they made while wearing the black and gold (and that includes Kordell) but in Kordodo's case, I was glad to see him given the heave ho - finally. I've always believed Cowher gave him way too many chances.

Agreed! Nobody that I can remember in a Steelers uniform received more chances than Kordell Stewart. Anything beyond a 5 yard screen pass posed a problem for him. I appreciate what he brought to the table as Slash because that was truly special, but that is about it.

Hammer Of The GODS
06-22-2008, 09:26 AM
Slash was a phenomenal football player no question!

But Korkie was a subpar football player! And Korkie is who took over the full time QB spot. Cowher had some weird unatural relationship with Korkie that kept him on the field.

99% of Korkies passes were low and away and the WR had to drop to the turf to grab it. There was virtually NO YAC! The 1% that involved YACs were Korkies overthrown wild passes that the WR made great plays on. (there was that 90 yarder against the Ravens though, that was a good pass!) Point is Korkie just didn't have it as a QB!

All that being said, I always thought that the douchebag that threw a beer on him should have his ass kicked! Totally classless!

CanadianSteel
06-22-2008, 09:56 AM
Korkie got himself benched that year with just awful play in the first 2 and half games vs Patriots and Raiders(i think) and then Browns in thrid game. He also started that crap with his quote about "the better team not winning the AFCC game the year before."
Kordell had enough chances to shine and it was about time Cowher made the switch...

Preacher
06-22-2008, 10:22 AM
As much as Bettis may want to think that coaches and owners had it in for him, I think it was Kordell who wanted to prove he was a pure QB and not a slash and that was what got him where he ended up!

In the end, I think you are absolutely right.

If he kept that Slash role... Who knows where we would have been....

However, there is probably a good chance we wouldn't have Ben..

No pun intended.

KeiselPower99
06-22-2008, 12:22 PM
Kordell blew his chance to keep his job after the crappy start of the 02 season. He had no confidence. He was a great slash guy but him wanting to become a pure qb just didnt work out. Tommy offered us more as a qb. I love Jerome but he is wrong on this one.

LVSteelersfan
06-22-2008, 12:50 PM
It cracks me up that people actually think Brister was better than Kordell. Ok, I will say they were both pathetic. Brister with his happy feet when the play broke down. And Kordell who couldn't throw a football in the ocean. I cringed every time the Steelers had the football with both of them. They made some good plays, a lot of bad plays and neither was ever going to take the Steelers anywhere. All I can say is thank God for Big Ben coming along. We won't have to worry about the QB position for awhile.

I'm also still amazed by the hatred for Neil ODonnell. He took the Steelers farther than any of the other stiffs aforementioned. Just because he lost on the big stage, some people have a glaring hatred for him. I was very happy to be back in AFCCG and Super Bowls once again instead of going nowhere with Stoudt, Malone, Brister, Kordell, etc.

BlastFurnace
06-22-2008, 01:24 PM
It cracks me up that people actually think Brister was better than Kordell. Ok, I will say they were both pathetic. Brister with his happy feet when the play broke down. And Kordell who couldn't throw a football in the ocean. I cringed every time the Steelers had the football with both of them. They made some good plays, a lot of bad plays and neither was ever going to take the Steelers anywhere. All I can say is thank God for Big Ben coming along. We won't have to worry about the QB position for awhile.

I'm also still amazed by the hatred for Neil ODonnell. He took the Steelers farther than any of the other stiffs aforementioned. Just because he lost on the big stage, some people have a glaring hatred for him. I was very happy to be back in AFCCG and Super Bowls once again instead of going nowhere with Stoudt, Malone, Brister, Kordell, etc.

We agree about Neil. I never had a problem with Neil at all. I thought he had a terrible game against the Cowboys, but Yancey's drop sure didn't help things out. NOD was a good, solid game manager for us. Nothing spectacular, but was solid.

The difference between Bubby and Kordell for me is that Bubby took a terrible 1989 team and lead them to the playoffs, beat the Oilers in Houston and should have beaten the Broncos in Denver...thank you Mark Stock! Kordell never could have taken that 1989 bunch to anywhere beyond 5-11. Granted, Bubby wasn't great by any means, but he ended up playing quite well for Denver in the late 90's wen called upon.

HometownGal
06-22-2008, 01:36 PM
We agree about Neil. I never had a problem with Neil at all. I thought he had a terrible game against the Cowboys, but Yancey's drop sure didn't help things out. NOD was a good, solid game manager for us. Nothing spectacular, but was solid.

The difference between Bubby and Kordell for me is that Bubby took a terrible 1989 team and lead them to the playoffs, beat the Oilers in Houston and should have beaten the Broncos in Denver...thank you Mark Stock! Kordell never could have taken that 1989 bunch to anywhere beyond 5-11. Granted, Bubby wasn't great by any means, but he ended up playing quite well for Denver in the late 90's wen called upon.

What a great post, BF. :thumbsup: You pretty much summed up how I feel about O'Donnell and the Bubster. Spot on. :drink:

fansince'76
06-22-2008, 01:48 PM
I'm also still amazed by the hatred for Neil ODonnell. He took the Steelers farther than any of the other stiffs aforementioned. Just because he lost on the big stage, some people have a glaring hatred for him. I was very happy to be back in AFCCG and Super Bowls once again instead of going nowhere with Stoudt, Malone, Brister, Kordell, etc.

I'm sorry, gotta disagree - we had a great D (by far the best D we've fielded since the '70s, before or since) and a great running game. O'Donnell was along for the ride. He was simply asked to not screw up and he couldn't even handle that. I don't hate O'Donnell, but I sure as hell don't have very fond memories of him either.

Tankus_Maximus
06-22-2008, 01:54 PM
I agree with the majority of you on this thread.

Kordell as Slash was great! Why didn't Cowher use him on kick returns? That could've solved some of the ST issues. Or better yet, a shotgun formation with Slash in the middle, flanked by Hines & ARE? The defense wouldn't know who the hell was gettin the snap.

Kordell as a starting QB?? Hell naw. The final nails in his coffin as a starting QB were the AFCG, and the first two games of the following season where he threw 5 or 6 picks in those games combined!

But, lets not forget the '97(?) AFCG where he had John Elway down at the half, course that was the game where he threw a pick (an omen of things to come?) right at the end of the half right to Romanowski (still remember him pointing to his head and mouthing the words "think, think, think").

19ward86
06-22-2008, 04:37 PM
That is just too bad for Kordell, but ya never know. Maybe then we would of never of gotten Ben.

Edman
06-22-2008, 09:19 PM
If there was anyone who recieved more chances in Pittsburgh, it was Kordell Stewart. Steeler fans got major headaches watching his inconsistency.

No one was doubting his ability as an athlete, but he just wasn't an NFL QB. He didn't have the smarts or the confidence. Like a yesteryear Vince Young and Mike Vick. He followed up his good 2001 season with more crap.

Whenever I think of Kordell at QB, I get bad memories of 1998-2000 when the Steelers would get pushed around by Jacksonville and Tennesee in the Central division.

CantStop85
06-22-2008, 10:01 PM
Kind of like Michael Vick, Vince Young, Tarvaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, etc. Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL. Teams will never learn.

Yeah, especially that Steve Young guy, boy he was terrible.

Randall Cunningham, Fran Tarkenton, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, John Elway, Roger Staubach, yeah...all terrible. :noidea:

Preacher
06-22-2008, 10:06 PM
Yeah, especially that Steve Young guy, boy he was terrible.

Randall Cunningham, Fran Tarkenton, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, John Elway, Roger Staubach, yeah...all terrible. :noidea:

Sorry...

that doesn't work...

all those QB's you mentioned "could" run....

but they chose to escape, and then stay behind the LOS to try and pass... it was only when they had a REAL open spot that they ran....

kinda like Ben.

missedgehead
06-22-2008, 10:06 PM
Huh, you actually think Bubby Brister and Cliff Stoudt were better than Kordell? Surely you jest. I am not a huge Kordell fan but he was better than those stiffs. I honestly think Maddox was a better pocket QB than Kordell. He just couldn't throw the out route for the life of him. Kordell couldn't hit the ocean with a football standing on the shore about half the time. Kind of like Michael Vick, Vince Young, Tarvaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, etc. Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL. Teams will never learn.


I am just asking: Areyou trying to say that African Americans can NEVER play QB? If I remember correctly, Steve McNair who I think Ben compares to very well as far as playing style, was co MVP of the league in 2003 with Peyton Manning, and in 2004, Daunte Culpepper was having a monster year. Got overshadowed by the Golden Boy, Peyton , but he was having a great year. Of course, you had Doug Williams who whipped another "golden boy," named , oh what was his name again, oh that's right, John Elway in the Super Bowl. I mean, all of the QBs you listed were African American.

I know I am going back to college, but who beat whom in the 2005/06 National Champ game or whenever it was played between The Univ of Texas and USC between Vince Young and Matt Leinart? I thought Young beat Leinart, the golden boy. Look at Leinart, now. He is not THE QB in AZ, is he? He is sharing the position with a washed up Kurt Warner and he was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be the best QB in the draft and crap. Hmmmm. Who got ROY of 2006? Oh, I thought Young did. Then again, "athletic" (and I have VERY STRONG opinions about the use of that word to describe a QB, especially an African American one) QBs can not play in this league, I forgot. Then again, Big Ben is what I would call an athletic QB as opposed to a QB ala Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (stand in the pocket, manipulate the pocket and throw the ball/quick release, etc).

I am NOT arguing that Kordell was a good QB. He was NOT. He should have remained Slash. He should never have been turned into a QB full time. My point is that I am just wondering why all these African American QBs are lumped together as being listed as unable to play the position, especially Vince Young who was ROY in 2006.

MDSteel15
06-22-2008, 10:19 PM
No need to make this racial people! Kordell would have been just fine if the Steelers would not have kept changing Offensive Coordinators every season he was QB! Was watching NFL Network and they said the same thing, it seemed as if Stewart was being set up to fail. And I am saying this after being at Memorial Stadium in Baltimore the last time we played the Ravens there, watching Kordell sigle handedly bring the team back from a half time deficit of I believe 17 or 21 points!

fansince'76
06-22-2008, 10:36 PM
I am just asking: Areyou trying to say that African Americans can NEVER play QB?

No, that's not what was said:

Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL....

Do you realize that the season record for most rushing yards by a QB from 1972 until Vick broke it in 2006 was held by Bobby Douglass, who was a WHITE QB? He also stunk as a passer - 507 for 1178 with 36 TD passes against 64 INTs for a career passer rating of 48.5 aren't exactly HoF-caliber passing numbers.

MACH1
06-22-2008, 10:38 PM
I am just asking: Areyou trying to say that African Americans can NEVER play QB? If I remember correctly, Steve McNair who I think Ben compares to very well as far as playing style, was co MVP of the league in 2003 with Peyton Manning, and in 2004, Daunte Culpepper was having a monster year. Got overshadowed by the Golden Boy, Peyton , but he was having a great year. Of course, you had Doug Williams who whipped another "golden boy," named , oh what was his name again, oh that's right, John Elway in the Super Bowl. I mean, all of the QBs you listed were African American.

I know I am going back to college, but who beat whom in the 2005/06 National Champ game or whenever it was played between The Univ of Texas and USC between Vince Young and Matt Leinart? I thought Young beat Leinart, the golden boy. Look at Leinart, now. He is not THE QB in AZ, is he? He is sharing the position with a washed up Kurt Warner and he was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be the best QB in the draft and crap. Hmmmm. Who got ROY of 2006? Oh, I thought Young did. Then again, "athletic" (and I have VERY STRONG opinions about the use of that word to describe a QB, especially an African American one) QBs can not play in this league, I forgot. Then again, Big Ben is what I would call an athletic QB as opposed to a QB ala Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (stand in the pocket, manipulate the pocket and throw the ball/quick release, etc).

I am NOT arguing that Kordell was a good QB. He was NOT. He should have remained Slash. He should never have been turned into a QB full time. My point is that I am just wondering why all these African American QBs are lumped together as being listed as unable to play the position, especially Vince Young who was ROY in 2006.


As stated above no need to turn this into a racial thing. There are to many qb's to name that sucked. Being what ever color they are. Ryan Leaf, Todd marijuanabitch come to mind.

Preacher
06-22-2008, 10:42 PM
I am just asking: Areyou trying to say that African Americans can NEVER play QB? If I remember correctly, Steve McNair who I think Ben compares to very well as far as playing style, was co MVP of the league in 2003 with Peyton Manning, and in 2004, Daunte Culpepper was having a monster year. Got overshadowed by the Golden Boy, Peyton , but he was having a great year. Of course, you had Doug Williams who whipped another "golden boy," named , oh what was his name again, oh that's right, John Elway in the Super Bowl. I mean, all of the QBs you listed were African American.

I know I am going back to college, but who beat whom in the 2005/06 National Champ game or whenever it was played between The Univ of Texas and USC between Vince Young and Matt Leinart? I thought Young beat Leinart, the golden boy. Look at Leinart, now. He is not THE QB in AZ, is he? He is sharing the position with a washed up Kurt Warner and he was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be the best QB in the draft and crap. Hmmmm. Who got ROY of 2006? Oh, I thought Young did. Then again, "athletic" (and I have VERY STRONG opinions about the use of that word to describe a QB, especially an African American one) QBs can not play in this league, I forgot. Then again, Big Ben is what I would call an athletic QB as opposed to a QB ala Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (stand in the pocket, manipulate the pocket and throw the ball/quick release, etc).

I am NOT arguing that Kordell was a good QB. He was NOT. He should have remained Slash. He should never have been turned into a QB full time. My point is that I am just wondering why all these African American QBs are lumped together as being listed as unable to play the position, especially Vince Young who was ROY in 2006.

I am not sure why this discussion went to race. Look at every QB that was mentioned. They all were QB's that were as dependent or more dependent on their ability to run than they were their ability to progress through reads and create time and room to come back to receivers.

Preacher
06-22-2008, 10:43 PM
No need to make this racial people! Kordell would have been just fine if the Steelers would not have kept changing Offensive Coordinators every season he was QB! Was watching NFL Network and they said the same thing, it seemed as if Stewart was being set up to fail. And I am saying this after being at Memorial Stadium in Baltimore the last time we played the Ravens there, watching Kordell sigle handedly bring the team back from a half time deficit of I believe 17 or 21 points!

i have said that for years

MDSteel15
06-22-2008, 10:57 PM
i have said that for years

Me too, just preaching to the choire here, Preach!

CantStop85
06-22-2008, 11:35 PM
Sorry...

that doesn't work...

all those QB's you mentioned "could" run....

but they chose to escape, and then stay behind the LOS to try and pass... it was only when they had a REAL open spot that they ran....

kinda like Ben.

What do you mean "that doesn't work?"

He said "Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL." All those guys were mobile, most were very fast (at least for the QB position), and they were all known at one time for their ability to run the ball. Most of those guys are still among the leaders in career rushing yards for a QB as well. I'm not talking about guys like Ben Roethlisberger who can move around in the pocket and occasionally take off for a first down. I'm talking about guys who were always a major threat to run with the ball.

I know you're alluding to the difference between mobile quarterbacks and "run-first" quarterbacks but I'm not sure the person I quoted was making that distinction. Grouping guys like Jason Campbell who are mobile, but not exactly run-first quarterbacks with guys like Michael Vick is simply unfair. A lot of the guys I mentioned were a lot more prone to running than guys like Jason Campbell and Tarvaris Jackson yet they were still very successful.

Steve McNair in his prime averaged more rushing yards per season than Vince Young has the past two years and he wasn't too shabby of a QB. Randall Cunningham ran for 942 yards in a season, just about on par with Michael Vick's numbers, and Cunningham is known as one of the better QB's in the history of the NFL.

I just feel that saying "Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL. Teams will never learn" is very short-sighted.

Preacher
06-23-2008, 12:18 AM
What do you mean "that doesn't work?"

He said "Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL." All those guys were mobile, most were very fast (at least for the QB position), and they were all known at one time for their ability to run the ball. Most of those guys are still among the leaders in career rushing yards for a QB as well. I'm not talking about guys like Ben Roethlisberger who can move around in the pocket and occasionally take off for a first down. I'm talking about guys who were always a major threat to run with the ball.

I know you're alluding to the difference between mobile quarterbacks and "run-first" quarterbacks but I'm not sure the person I quoted was making that distinction. Grouping guys like Jason Campbell who are mobile, but not exactly run-first quarterbacks with guys like Michael Vick is simply unfair. A lot of the guys I mentioned were a lot more prone to running than guys like Jason Campbell and Tarvaris Jackson yet they were still very successful.

Steve McNair in his prime averaged more rushing yards per season than Vince Young has the past two years and he wasn't too shabby of a QB. Randall Cunningham ran for 942 yards in a season, just about on par with Michael Vick's numbers, and Cunningham is known as one of the better QB's in the history of the NFL.

I just feel that saying "Mobile, very fast, running QBs never get anywhere in the NFL. Teams will never learn" is very short-sighted.

Hmmm...

I see where you are coming from... let me back up for a second.

"mobile fast young QB's" in Pittsburgh is code for Kordell Stewart type QB's.

Those who run first instead of looking for the pass.

Those who are unbeleiveable athletes and get by on their talent alone, and don't ever take the time to learn the real skills... at least that is the stereotype.

Now that you explained what you mean, I understand and completely agree with you. It is the Kordell/Vick type QB that we speak of.

Heck, Warren Moon probably also fits in your group... and he was a very good passer.

missedgehead
06-23-2008, 07:36 AM
I wasn't "trying to make it racial." Just made an observation is all. I was just trying to clarify the person's point is all. No need to jump down my throat, people. Chill.

missedgehead
06-23-2008, 07:50 AM
As stated above no need to turn this into a racial thing. There are to many qb's to name that sucked. Being what ever color they are. Ryan Leaf, Todd marijuanabitch come to mind.

Well, I WASN'T trying to turn it into a racial thing. I think you all have it all wrong, in fact, I think you made my point for me. It just seems to me that when NFL fans mention QBs that suck, they mention African American ones when like you said there are plenty of QBs that were horrible, regardless of race, cough Tim Couch cough (sorry for producing him as Lexington is the home of the University of KY. LOL). That was ALL I was trying to say.

BlastFurnace
06-23-2008, 07:56 AM
I hate it when people try to make Kordell's situation into a racial argument. Look, Kordell was not a good QB, no matter how you look at it. OC's tried to make the playbook accustomed to him, it didn't work out. It's not a black thing guys. We all loved him at first, but that relationship soured with fans when it was very obvious the team would never win anything with him as the QB. I can honestly tell you that three QB's that tore us a new one and scared me to death when we faced them were Moon, McNair, and Vick. Some of the QB's that didn't scare me were Boller, Grbac, and Frye.

Kordell had his shot and it didn't work out. He's a lightening rod on any Steelers board....not because he wasn't a great athlete, but because he was miscast. He should have stayed in his original role.

SteelersMongol
06-23-2008, 08:10 AM
I know most of you will probably not going to agree with me on this, but I thought Tommy was far worse than Kordell. Sure Tommy had a good start just when he came from XFL, but the way he played used to make me think as if he was playing for the other team, bribed or something like that. I hated him. I was mad. Well ... I hated him until I started hearing there was so much hatred thing going on against him (& his family, sadly) among the fans. That's when I drew the line.

BlastFurnace
06-23-2008, 08:32 AM
I know most of you will probably not going to agree with me on this, but I thought Tommy was far worse than Kordell. Sure Tommy had a good start just when he came from XFL, but the way he played used to make me think as if he was playing for the other team, bribed or something like that. I hated him. I was mad. Well ... I hated him until I started hearing there was so much hatred thing going on against him (& his family, sadly) among the fans. That's when I drew the line.

IMO, Tommy had strengths that Kordell didn't have and Kordell had strenghts that Tommy didn't have...it's too bad that we couldn't have morphed the two into one. Tommy had good field vision, but no elusiveness and average arm strength. Kordell had poor vield vision, good arm strength and great elusiveness.

Tommy, for whatever you think of him, had a good 2002 season and got the team off the Kordell cycle. He gave us an incredible 2002 Playoff victory over the Stains, and a near victory over the Titans. He was what he was...a guy who made a decent comeback who caught lightening in a bottle for a year.

fansince'76
06-23-2008, 09:59 AM
I know most of you will probably not going to agree with me on this, but I thought Tommy was far worse than Kordell. Sure Tommy had a good start just when he came from XFL, but the way he played used to make me think as if he was playing for the other team, bribed or something like that. I hated him. I was mad. Well ... I hated him until I started hearing there was so much hatred thing going on against him (& his family, sadly) among the fans. That's when I drew the line.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Maddox was never going to be the long-term solution at QB. He was simply a stopgap between the (thankfully, finally and mercifully) aborted Kordell "experiment" and when we could get another QB in the draft. Maddox served his purpose.

The_WARDen
06-23-2008, 11:04 AM
anyway, wasn't the "point" of this thread being how Bettis decided to make some extra $$ by adding some controversy???:coffee:

Lambertfan
06-23-2008, 11:42 AM
He could of been a hell of a wide rec...but not for his obcession for the QB spot!!!

Dino 6 Rings
06-23-2008, 11:58 AM
I love the Bus, and I can understand how from a Player's perspective maybe he sees the decision to pull Kordell as a "business decision"

And in fact, it may have been, but not in the way that Jerome thinks. Kordell had choked away the previous season in the playoffs. Then, he started the season again, "not getting the offense" and making dumb mistakes. People in Pittsburgh, and fans across the country were fed up with the mistakes, year in and year out. Cowher stood behind his decision to go with Kordell as a full time QB for years. But Kordell couldn't get the job done. The fans were tired of it. That effects revenue. It is a business first and foremost and when the product isn't producing the required revenue you fix the product. Change was needed, and Tommy did well enough for one year to show that the problem was at the QB position. First and foremost.

Tommy also failed to take us to the next level, but his play showed the fans, the owners and the coaches that no matter how much they thought Kordell could do it, they were all wrong. Kordell didn't go and start at another team. In fact, I don't think he ended up on a roster for an entire season. Why is that?

Because he didn't have the "IT" that it takes at the NFL level to be a good QB week in and week out.

lilyoder6
06-23-2008, 12:36 PM
kordell was a good qb 4 us.. but after time the def caught on to his gameplan and he couldn't do anything to help us...

steelreserve
06-23-2008, 12:39 PM
Nothing against Tommy, but I always had my doubts that he won the job fair and sqaure. Kordell was coming off a Pro Bowl year and was going into the last year of his contract. The Steelers wanted to renegotiate his contract before he became a free agent, but Kordell was probably going to be too rich for their blood.

Has anyone bothered to point out that Bettis' logic doesn't even make any sense? If we were going to lose Kordell as a free agent anyway, what the hell did we have to gain by benching him? Honestly, if we were benching him unnecessarily, the only thing we'd be accomplishing would be to torpedo his future earning power with some other team.

I guess the Steelers' plan, evil geniuses that they are, was to deflate Kordell's stats for a season, then at the end of they year, turn around and say, "Ha, ha. You suck now! But we still want you on the team. Re-sign with us for less money!" And then he'd go "Hey, you know what, you're exactly right! Gee, am I grateful you came around and gave me a second look!"

Seriously, Jerome. Do you think EVERYONE involved in this situation was a complete dumbass, or what?

WisconsinSteelerMan
06-23-2008, 02:12 PM
In the end, I think you are absolutely right.

If he kept that Slash role... Who knows where we would have been....

However, there is probably a good chance we wouldn't have Ben..

No pun intended.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Preach... Slash was at his absolute best when he was just that...SLASH... WR slash QB slash RB slash Punt Returner...

When they put him in full time as a QB, and ran the predictable Cowher offense...Run, Run, incomplete pass, punt, the rest of the teams in the league just knew our scheme and came after us. Put him in the slash role, and no one knew what we were going to do with him. He embodied the element of surprise...

Take away his surprise, and he was another average QB in a string of average QB's up until Big Ben...

I personally would like to see some more of that "surprise" element back in the team again. I know that Tomlin is all about "discipline" and "good football from our MEN" but a little of that surprise goes a LONG way. To see a good gadget play go for BIG yards is what it is all about...keeps folks guessing. Even Bellicheat can't see that kind of thing coming...

Mike in La Crosse, WI


P. S. - WOW...it has been a LONG time since I have posted... almost forgot how to do it! Hi from the Cheesehead State....

SteelersJW
06-23-2008, 07:49 PM
I never would have guessed this thread would become so heated. Great points made by everyone, I still don't know where I sit on this topic. In the end however, the past is in the past and I'm very happy with where we are at in the present. I couldn't be happier than having Ben as our QB.

kirklandrules
06-23-2008, 08:00 PM
I've got a good pic of the Bus hanging on my wall ... loved watching the guy run for the Black & Gold. But the idea the Steelers organization would undercut Kordell just so they wouldn't have to pay him a fair contract is as far fetched as thinking the government controls the weather and is responsible for our natural disasters. So Kevin Colbert decided that in order to save the Steelers a few bucks in the following season he would convince Bill Cowher to undermine the entire season by hosing Kordell and his future. Remember, they didn't know Maddox was worth two cents at that point (he was a reformed NFL drop out prior to that season). To believe this conspiracy, you'd have to believe that Cowher and Colbert do not have big egos and therefore, did not care about their wins/loses. You'd also have to believe that these two guys had no loyalty to the Rooneys. Unless you want to believe the Rooneys were in on this and then you'd also have to believe they would rather not pay Kordell a decent contract and were willing to forgo huge revenue a winning season provides.

I believe the truth is Kordell was stinking it up and Cowher threw Maddox in to see if a QB change would provide a spark. It worked and they stuck with the hot hand until it wasn't so hot anymore and a new, younger stud came along. Bettis should leave the conspiracies to the wackos.

ironcityslicker
06-25-2008, 03:59 PM
Couldn't agree more. It was also his (subpar) play in big games that effectively cost us two Super Bowl trips. Kordell was an incredible athlete, but he sucked as a QB, bottom line.



Kordell was a natural... a natural choke artist.

steelreserve
07-05-2008, 06:43 PM
I've got a good pic of the Bus hanging on my wall ... loved watching the guy run for the Black & Gold. But the idea the Steelers organization would undercut Kordell just so they wouldn't have to pay him a fair contract is as far fetched as thinking the government controls the weather and is responsible for our natural disasters.

Well, yeah. Not to mention the fact that if we were benching him in an attempt to try and sign him for peanuts, he'd probably just sign with someone else for more money and tell us to f**k off.

Edman
07-27-2008, 11:39 PM
Revisiting the subject for those of you out there blaming Kordell's failures due switching OC's after 1997. Our very own Ben had to deal with an OC change this year and he turned out just fine. As a matter of fact, he took the next step under Arians.

Kordell was surrounded by pretty talented Steelers teams and put them to waste with his atrocious QB play in both Championship games he played in. Yeah, we mainly lost the 2001 title game on crappy special teams, but Korkie's trademark "Trifecta of Picks" didn't help either.

Elvis
07-28-2008, 07:00 AM
Kordell really should have stuck with his "slash" role, he fit the role very well
:tt02:

vasteeler
07-28-2008, 07:09 AM
Kordell really should have stuck with his "slash" role, he fit the role very well
:tt02:

would have been a hall of famer

PisnNapalm
07-28-2008, 07:59 AM
I have never hated Kordell. I never understood why his game play went downhill so fast though. I don't think I can believe he was sabotaged, but maybe he wasn't setup for success either. I don't know.

The one thing I do know is he made a helluva great wide receiver. He was much more dangerous in the "Slash" role than he was at QB. He might still be playing if he'd been a wide out.