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Atlanta Dan
07-07-2008, 05:29 PM
Hmmmm

The Rooney family has been working to restructure the ownership of the Steelers to separate ownership of the team from racetrack and gambling interests also owned by the family, according to a statement from the team today.

Ownership of a team and of gambling interests by the same parties is inconsistent with NFL policy, the statement said.

Pittsburgh Steelers Chairman Dan Rooney, the oldest son of team founder the late Art Rooney, said he will "do everything possible to work out a solution to ensure my father's legacy of keeping the Steelers in the Rooney family and in Pittsburgh for at least another 75 years."

Rooney said he wants to stay in the football business while some of his four brothers plan to focus on the racetracks in New York and Florida and other interests. Dan and his son, Steelers President Art Rooney II, are arranging financing to buy Dan's brothers' shares in the team in order to continue substantial ownership of the franchise by the Rooneys, the statement said.


http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08189/895371-66.stm


Can't imagine the NFL suddenly figured out the Rooneys also own racetracks; the cynic in me sees some estate planning issues at work for the sad day Dan Rooney passes from the scene. The tax issues arising from an asset that has appreciated as much as the Steelers have in the last 10 years would be a monster to deal with absent some restructuring of ownership.

Atlanta Dan
07-07-2008, 05:56 PM
Forget the Post-Gazette story - this is on The Wall Street Journal web site!

Steelers Shopped to Potential Buyers


The storied Pittsburgh Steelers football franchise has been secretly shopped to potential buyers amid continuing divisions among the five sons of the team's founder, Art Rooney Sr.

The talks affect not only one of America's iconic sports franchises, but one of its most fabled sports families. Steelers Chairman Dan Rooney, who helped build the National Football League and is the oldest of the five sons, wants to consolidate his control by acquiring most of his brothers' shares in the Steelers over 10 years, those briefed on the talks said

The statement said that Dan Rooney and his son, Steelers President Art Rooney II, are arranging a financing plan to buy Dan's brothers' shares in the team in order to continue substantial ownership of the franchise by the Rooneys.

But some of the brothers and younger third-generation family members are asking whether a better deal can be put together, if there is to be an ownership change.

However its fate is decided, the Steelers franchise is a rich prize. The team has won five Super Bowl titles and been among the most dominant in the league for 30 years. They play in a new riverfront stadium that routinely sells out its 65,000 seats. And their fan base is famously loyal, reaching far beyond western Pennsylvania.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121546397767833575.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

stillers4me
07-07-2008, 06:31 PM
I'm having a hard time breathing............


ok........ now I have this annoying spasm around my right eye................Take deep deep breaths................

HometownGal
07-07-2008, 06:40 PM
It's a pretty well known fact around the Burgh that there is and has been dissention among the Rooney brothers for quite some time, though up until this recent article, I don't think anyone realized how deep it runs.

I just don't see the Steelers being sold to anyone outside of the Rooney family. Art II is a hard-nosed shark (as well as a top notch attorney) and there is no way he is going to allow that to happen. They will work out some sort of a deal among the parties involved and Dan/Art II will have sole ownership. Somehow. Some way.

I'm sure the Chief is turning in his grave. :tombstone

Atlanta Dan
07-07-2008, 06:48 PM
I'm sure the Chief is turning in his grave. :tombstone

It's a business

Think Art Jr. won't hold out for top dollar for his share, regardless of who pays it, after brother Dan fired him in1986 (a decision I assume must have torn the Chief up since he was still alive at the time)?

revefsreleets
07-07-2008, 07:03 PM
One of the Rooney's will put together a package to buy whichever bros want out, and there will be no problem finding the financing to make it work.

No worries, the Steelers will remain in the Rooney family for the foreseeable future...

Atlanta Dan
07-07-2008, 07:39 PM
One of the Rooney's will put together a package to buy whichever bros want out, and there will be no problem finding the financing to make it work.

No worries, the Steelers will remain in the Rooney family for the foreseeable future...

I dunno - everything has a market top and IMO if anything screams overvalued asset these days it is a NFL franchise; some billionaire could just buy it but for Dan & AJR II to line up financing for the Steelers in this credit environment may be no easy deal to pull off.

TackleMeBen
07-07-2008, 07:43 PM
that is why you dont do business with family or friends.

tony hipchest
07-07-2008, 07:44 PM
I dunno - everything has a market top and IMO if anything screams overvalued asset these days it is a NFL franchise; some billionaire could just buy it but for Dan & AJR II to line up financing for the Steelers in this credit environment may be no easy deal to pull off.wow, i just got a shudder from the thought of mark cuban hamming it up on the sidelines.

for some reason i feel much more comfortable with the thought of him owning the pirates.

TackleMeBen
07-07-2008, 07:46 PM
wow, i just got a shudder from the thought of mark cuban hamming it up on the sidelines.

for some reason i feel much more comfortable with the thought of him owning the pirates.
what is wrong with mark cuban.. i like him.. i was hoping he could get a deal to buy the cubs when they were up for sale...

maybe the steelers will be like the packers and let the fans by stock in the team. :thumbsup:

Atlanta Dan
07-07-2008, 07:54 PM
for some reason i feel much more comfortable with the thought of him owning the pirates.

The Bucs don't have this price tag:sofunny:

A sports banker not involved with the deal who asked not to be identified said if the team was up for sale it could set an all-time U.S. record for the value of an NFL franchise.

The sale of a 50 percent stake in the Miami Dolphins in February to real estate developer Stephen Ross valued the NFL franchise at $1.1 billion.

The banker estimated that the Steelers could be valued at $1.3 billion to $1.5 billion. That banker said that with a new stadium and strong fan base, it would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for buyers.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25575645/

This could get out of the price range of Dan & AJR II real quick

fansince'76
07-07-2008, 08:00 PM
wow, i just got a shudder from the thought of mark cuban hamming it up on the sidelines.

If that happens I'll no longer be a Steelers fan. And since I still have a really bad taste in my mouth over Spygate, I'll find something else to do on Sundays during the fall entirely.

Preacher
07-07-2008, 08:12 PM
Who knows...

All I got to say is that the Rooney's had BETTER put a no-move clause in the contract.

TackleMeBen
07-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Who knows...

All I got to say is that the Rooney's had BETTER put a no-move clause in the contract.
or they could become the Oklahoma City Steelers..lol:rofl:

fansince'76
07-07-2008, 08:15 PM
what is wrong with mark cuban..

Overpaying and overpaying BIG for an over-the-hill Jason Kidd, for starters. This is another billionaire rich kid jagoff (see Dan Snyder) that doesn't know shit about running a professional sports team, and even worse, actually thinks he does. This news has kinda ruined my day in a big way. I dread the day that Dan Rooney passes on.

stillers4me
07-07-2008, 08:18 PM
When Art and Dan hoist that Lombardi Trophy over their heads next winter, this will all be a horrible, laughable memory. Nobody but the Rooney's will ever own the Steelers, at least not in my lifetime.

TackleMeBen
07-07-2008, 08:22 PM
When Art and Dan hoist that Lombardi Trophy over their heads next winter, this will all be a horrible, laughable memory. Nobody but the Rooney's will ever own the Steelers, at least not in my lifetime.
or we hope.

stillers4me
07-07-2008, 08:23 PM
Besides, it sure looks like a good investment to me.

Anyone want to go halvers with me?

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-07-2008, 08:28 PM
or they could become the Oklahoma City Steelers..lol:rofl:

Unless you guys fought for the name back, like we did ;)

For the Rekkid, if you guys got moved..to say LA..I'd probably do what a lot of y'all did when we moved and wear a Steelers Arm Band.

TackleMeBen
07-07-2008, 08:30 PM
Besides, it sure looks like a good investment to me.

Anyone want to go halvers with me?
i will go in half with you.. let me call my ex husband to get a loan :thumbsup:

Vis
07-07-2008, 08:38 PM
I've got a spare $17.50 to kick in

stillers4me
07-07-2008, 08:40 PM
I've got a spare $17.50 to kick in

That's a start....... :flap:

It will buy a couple of beers at Heinz Field.

Steelman16
07-07-2008, 08:43 PM
or they could become the Oklahoma City Steelers..lol:rofl:

Hey, what's wrong with that!

Then I could attend some games! :tt02:

RoethlisBURGHer
07-07-2008, 08:55 PM
Wow, I can't believe what I just read. The Chief must be having grand mal seizures in his grave.

I really hope that their Dan and Art II can pool enough money together to at least own a large majority of the Steelers so that if say two brothers wanted to sell the team to someone outside the family, they would be minimal owners with little or no say (unless it is good say).

This is a dark, dark day in Steelers history.

TackleMeBen
07-07-2008, 09:13 PM
Hey, what's wrong with that!

Then I could attend some games! :tt02:

there is nothing in OKC.. sorry..

Tankus_Maximus
07-07-2008, 09:57 PM
Unless you guys fought for the name back, like we did ;)

For the Rekkid, if you guys got moved..to say LA..I'd probably do what a lot of y'all did when we moved and wear a Steelers Arm Band.

ORALE!!!!

LOS ANGELES STEELERS OF ORANGE COUNTY!!!!!

Chale, it doesn't have the same zing as Pittsburgh.

I'll move to Pittsburgh, before they come to L.A.

Tankus_Maximus
07-07-2008, 09:59 PM
Besides, it sure looks like a good investment to me.

Anyone want to go halvers with me?

I got an extra $8.75 sittin around here somewhere...I'm in!

Texasteel
07-07-2008, 10:09 PM
Move the Steelers out of Pittsburgh? I would rather see them move the White House to Springfeild Mo.

Edman
07-07-2008, 10:09 PM
San Antonio Steelers. The mere thought of it makes me sick.

But hey, it happened to other diehard fanbases like Cleveland, Pittsburgh certainly isn't immune to it. The Chief is certainly doing backflips in his grave.

warddj86
07-07-2008, 10:20 PM
hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no

if that happens, life as we know it will end

CantStop85
07-07-2008, 10:42 PM
Hey, Steelers Fever should make a bid for the team...all you would have to do is just add about 7 zeroes to that 2008 goal. :chuckle:

SteelCityMan786
07-07-2008, 11:01 PM
Don't worry, they will find a way to keep this within the Rooney family.

missedgehead
07-07-2008, 11:24 PM
The Steelers not being owned by a Rooney would be like WWE not being owned by a McMahon. I hope that a Rooney does own retain ownership somehow. *cries*

Dodt
07-07-2008, 11:59 PM
i'll start to panic if those guys from google decide to buy the team.

steelreserve
07-08-2008, 12:11 AM
The Steelers not being owned by a Rooney would be like WWE not being owned by a McMahon. I hope that a Rooney does own retain ownership somehow. *cries*

Dude, come on. What kind of analogy is that? That would be like making a list of the most defining events of the 20th century that went:

1. World War II
2. Great Depression
3. Moon landing
4. Dr. Dre leaves Death Row

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-08-2008, 12:31 AM
What if they were purchased by the same company that bought out Rolling Rock a couple years ago???

CantStop85
07-08-2008, 12:36 AM
Dude, come on. What kind of analogy is that? That would be like making a list of the most defining events of the 20th century that went:

1. World War II
2. Great Depression
3. Moon landing
4. Dr. Dre leaves Death Row

You're right...the moon landing totally doesn't belong on this list. :flap:

tony hipchest
07-08-2008, 01:06 AM
What if they were purchased by the same company that bought out Rolling Rock a couple years ago???

or the Spanish company who bought out Kennywood...

:jawdrop:

Steel Pit
07-08-2008, 01:30 AM
This entire thread is LUDICROUS! The Steelers will not be sold to anyone outside the Rooney family and they sure as hell will not be moved from Pittsburgh.

It's as simple as this, a few of the Rooney's want to become HEAVYWEIGHTS in either the casino or horse racing industries. In order to do this, and comply with NFL ownership rules, they will have to relinquish their share of ownership in the organization.

When all is said and done it will "legally" appear as though Dan and Art II bought out the other Rooney's but anyone with an ounce of common sense will know that no Rooney was actually bought out. PERIOD!

tony hipchest
07-08-2008, 01:57 AM
and they sure as hell will not be moved from Pittsburgh.

!no they will not...

The banker estimated that the Steelers could be valued at $1.3 billion to $1.5 billion. That banker said that with a new stadium and strong fan base, it would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for buyers. [/I]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25575645/

This could get out of the price range of Dan & AJR II real quick

...but dan [and the quoted article] definitely make a valid point. is the iron hot enough to strike becomes the real question.

steelers valued at $1.3-1.5 bil make investors such as jones, kraft, snyder etc. look like absolute geniuses.

Preacher
07-08-2008, 02:21 AM
This seems like a better reading of what is happening.

Steelers' owners may be changing

By Mike Prisuta (mprisuta@tribweb.com)
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, July 8, 2008

pittsburgh_tribu:http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_576476.htmlBuzz up! (http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/pittsburgh_tribu/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.pittsburghlive.com%252Fx%25 2Fpittsburghtrib%252Fs_576476.html)
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The Steelers on Monday said prolonged, ongoing negotiations are under way concerning the "restructuring" of ownership, which could result in the sale of the franchise or a consolidation of control within the Rooney family. The team said that chairman Dan Rooney and his son, president Art Rooney II, are trying to buy Dan's brothers' shares in order to "ensure compliance with NFL ownership policies."
Discussions have been taking place for two years, the team said in a statement.
Industry analyst Darren Rovell said the potential relocation of the Steelers is not an issue, even if the franchise is ultimately sold.

"There is zero-percent chance the Steelers will move out of Pittsburgh if they get new owners," said Rovell, a sports/business reporter for CNBC. "I will drink six bottles of Heinz ketchup, back to back, in 10 minutes, if I'm wrong on that."
Marc Ganis, president of Sportscorp Limited, envisions an eventual resolution of the Steelers' ownership issue that results in "Dan Rooney and Art Rooney II ultimately owning the Steelers, that part of the lineage from Art Rooney Sr. still in control."
Dan Rooney said in a statement that he intends to "do everything possible to work out a solution to ensure my father's legacy of keeping the Steelers and the Rooney family in Pittsburgh for at least another 75 years."
Shortly after the Steelers announced their intentions in a statement, the Wall Street Journal posted a story on its Web site that said the Steelers franchise has been "secretly shopped to potential buyers amid continuing divisions among the five sons of the team's founder, Art Rooney Sr."
The franchise was founded in 1933 by Art Rooney Sr.
The Steelers had no comment other than what was released in their statement, which said Dan Rooney wants to "stay in the football business" while some of his four brothers want to "get out of the NFL and focus their business efforts on their racetracks and other interests."
Dan Rooney's brothers -- Art Jr., Timothy, Patrick and John -- have ownership interest in the Steelers. The McGinley family has a minority interest in the team. The Rooney family owns racetracks in New York and Florida, and the team said "these facilities have added forms of gaming that are inconsistent with NFL gambling policy."
Ganis, whose firm has done business with more than a third of the NFL's teams in areas of acquisition, stadium development and relocation, said there's more to the story than an attempt to adhere to NFL policy.
"The other part of the issue is succession," he said, "and the Rooneys aren't the only family to deal with this. The only thing that's unexpected here is this getting out. With Dan Rooney, this type of thing typically doesn't get public."
An NFL spokesman said commissioner Roger Goodell had no comment on the Steelers' ownership negotiations.
The Steelers' statement said Goodell has asked former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue to "serve as a league representative in discussions with the family in order to reach an agreement on the separation of the gambling interests and on a restructuring of ownership if the team is sold."
According to league policy, no NFL owner may own, directly or indirectly, any interests in a gambling casino.
The NFL defines any facility with slot machines as a casino.
Any sale involving an NFL team is subject to a league review and must be approved by 75 percent of member clubs.
An NFL spokesman said no deadline has been established for resolution of the Steelers' ownership situation.
The Steelers were valued at $929 million by Forbes Magazine in September. Rovell said the reported shopping of the team could be an example of the Rooneys doing their "due diligence" while trying to resolve their problems.
"If one family member is trying to buy out another family member, they can put it out there on the market and find out how much people think it's worth and then determine a better value for each member of the Rooney family," Rovell said.
Added Ganis: "The end result may be that the league needs to help out, bend some of their rules to help out a long-standing partner."

Steelman16
07-08-2008, 02:32 AM
"There is zero-percent chance the Steelers will move out of Pittsburgh if they get new owners," said Rovell, a sports/business reporter for CNBC. "I will drink six bottles of Heinz ketchup, back to back, in 10 minutes, if I'm wrong on that."

I'll take that as proof of a zero-percent chance? :chuckle:

I accept your bet - you'd better hold up your end of the bargain Mr. Rovell. :popcorn:


Added Ganis: "The end result may be that the league needs to help out, bend some of their rules to help out a long-standing partner."

Interesting?

Steel Pit
07-08-2008, 04:18 AM
This seems like a better reading of what is happening.


Thank you for cleaning up the nonsense Preacher.

Galax Steeler
07-08-2008, 04:42 AM
I just don't see them moving away from the burgh they will stay according to the article.

Rhee Rhee
07-08-2008, 05:02 AM
maybe the steelers will be like the packers and let the fans by stock in the team. :thumbsup:

i've actually heard of a small market soccer team in england/scotland [can't remember] where they were selling shares of the team and a group of people on a forum, much like this one fund-raised and gathered enough money to buy enough shares so that they were able to make important personel decisions...

i guess what'd they'd do is hold polls on the forum itself and based on majority vote the team would sign billy bob or release joe veteran... of course they'd also go into finer details of ticket prices, merchandise prices... it all sounds very appealing to me...

if only we had billions of dollars at the ready...

RoethlisBURGHer
07-08-2008, 07:58 AM
We couldn't buy shares of the Steelers akin to Green Bay's ownership structure. There is a reason the Packers are the only team to have fans that own stock in the team, the NFL put it against the rules so the Packers will be the only team structured like this.

What we would have to do is get a large sum of momney together between a lot of people and put in a bad as an ownership group.

I will put in $20!

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 08:00 AM
More extensive Wall Street Journal story this morning

The Pittsburgh Steelers -- owned for 75 years by the same local family -- is secretly being shopped to potential buyers as the five sons of the football team's founder and their heirs spar over the storied franchise's future.

Steelers Chairman Dan Rooney, the eldest of the brothers, wants to consolidate his control through a 10-year plan to buy out most of their shares, but a well-funded prospective buyer has emerged after some of Mr. Rooney's brothers and their children raised questions about his offer.

Stanley Druckenmiller, billionaire chairman of Pittsburgh's Duquesne Capital Management, has expressed interest in acquiring the Steelers, people briefed on the negotiations said...

"I will do everything possible to work out a solution to ensure my father's legacy of keeping the Steelers in the Rooney family and in Pittsburgh for at least another 75 years," Dan Rooney said in the statement.

But some of his brothers and younger third-generation family members have sought an independent analysis by a top Wall Street investment bank to see whether a better deal can be put together. They worry that Dan Rooney's plan undervalues the team and takes on too much debt.

Working in tight secrecy under the code-name "Project Newcastle," Goldman Sachs & Co. late last year valued the Steelers operations at $800 million to as much as $1.2billion, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The Dan Rooney family's buyout proposal was presented by Société Générale SA under the code-name "Project 33," documents show. The plan appears to value the Steelers at well below the price range envisioned by Goldman.

Under the SocGen plan, the Dan Rooney family would take on substantial debt and pay $35 million to each brother and the McGinley family for a 5% stake in the team. Dan Rooney's family then would buy more equity, at a price to be determined, over 10 years, leaving each with a 5% stake in the team.

The Goldman valuation was sought by family members who wanted an alternative to their elder brother's plan. In it, Goldman says, "the family must begin the process of planning for the future of the franchise, which will entail balancing numerous and sometimes competing interests." At some point earlier this year Mr. Druckenmiller was drawn into the mix. If his bid is successful, he has told Rooney family members, he'd like Dan Rooney to continue running the team.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121546397767833575.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news

The Wall Street Journal has seem internal documents and IMO the Rooneys announcement yesterday was timed because the WSJ was ready to run the story.

This story appears to confirm that the sales price may be too rich for Dan Rooney to pull off - incurring excessive debt is never prudent.

OTOH Druckenmiller (who made his $$ as chief trader for George Soros) could just write a check.

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 08:13 AM
From the article cited above:

Others involved in these discussions, however, noted the price could be hurt because -- despite the team's fan base and strong ties to the city -- Pittsburgh is no longer a growing market and has fewer big companies that can afford lucrative box suites.

Worrisome to say the least - who's to say Druckenmiller, if successful in acquiring a majority of ownership, won't come in and cry "poor," and move the team to a more "lucrative" market (for example, L.A.)? Don't like it - not one bit.

careerguy
07-08-2008, 08:15 AM
Hi, I'm a reporter at the Wall Street Journal and would like to do a follow up story today and talk to some Steelers fans. If you can email me at kris.maher@wsj.com, or call 412 553 6906, or let me know a good number to reach you at, that would be great. Thanks, and I hope to speak to you. Kris

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 08:32 AM
Hi, I'm a reporter at the Wall Street Journal and would like to do a follow up story today and talk to some Steelers fans. If you can email me at kris.maher@wsj.com, or call 412 553 6906, or let me know a good number to reach you at, that would be great. Thanks, and I hope to speak to you. Kris

Steelers Fever Forum - the go to source for Steelers information:sofunny:

Steeldude
07-08-2008, 08:38 AM
couldn't they put a stipulation in that states the steelers must stay in pittsburgh?

Steeldude
07-08-2008, 08:42 AM
What we would have to do is get a large sum of momney together between a lot of people and put in a bad as an ownership group.

I will put in $20!


i'll put $500 in and i don't even want part ownership. i just want the steelers to remain in pittsburgh with the rooney's as the owners.

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 09:07 AM
i've actually heard of a small market soccer team in england/scotland [can't remember] where they were selling shares of the team and a group of people on a forum, much like this one fund-raised and gathered enough money to buy enough shares so that they were able to make important personel decisions...

i guess what'd they'd do is hold polls on the forum itself and based on majority vote the team would sign billy bob or release joe veteran... of course they'd also go into finer details of ticket prices, merchandise prices... it all sounds very appealing to me...

if only we had billions of dollars at the ready...

No thanks - considering some of the harebrained personnel ideas I've read here "(insert name of washed-up, over the hill, overpriced big-name veteran here) would look great in the black and gold," the prospect of the Steelers finishing in the neighborhood of 2-14 every year doesn't really appeal to me too much.

Dino 6 Rings
07-08-2008, 09:22 AM
People, its simple, if any of the "brothers" TRAITORS! try to sell this team to anyone without the Last name Rooney, well then, I will hunt them down and do horrible things to them with large pickles and jumper cables. Don't ask.

I wonder how much they would cost anyway, I got really good credit and might be willing to go in on a "corporate" package to purchase some shares of the team. Wonder if I can get a couple hundred million dollar loan in this current economy.

Haiku_Dirtt
07-08-2008, 10:04 AM
[QUOTE=Atlanta Dan;411368]It's a business

QUOTE]

The Age of Malfeasence.

I'm having trouble believing that a little estate planning is that catalyst. It's not like the globe is experiencing a credit contraction of Hurculean proportion or anything like that. Did Dan wake up with an epiphany recently?

Did Art II stray from the notoriously frugal ways?

This story will go on and on. Damn.

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 10:16 AM
Mr. I who owns the red wings and tigers also own a casino in downtown detroit. so i dont see what the big deal is if the other brothers want to invest in other things. as long as it doesnt effect the team...

Vis
07-08-2008, 10:21 AM
Does the casino have sports betting?

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 10:24 AM
Does the casino have sports betting?
dont believe the casino that Mr. I owns does. he owns the motorcity casino.

CanadianSteel
07-08-2008, 11:00 AM
I really didn't like reading these various stories this morning. Have heard about some dissention in the Rooney family for a while and hope the Brothers who want out can come to an agreement and sell their shares to Dan.
If the rift amungst the family is as bad as reported then possible the brothers who want out, may look to maximize their investment and sell to highest bidder. This is where trouble could start. Not sure of each brother has same ownership percentage (anyone know ?), but say (and just hypothetical) all 3 who want out sell to outside bidder(s), then Dan may not have complete control moving forward.
Combine this issue with all the talk about the NFL moving to a "No Slalary cap" system in near future and it raises more concerns for Steelers and their fans.
Not in any type of panic, but lets see how this plays out within the Rooney family.
Hopefyully its just posturing and the Rooneys will work it out.

One thing that bothers me is that friggin lowlife Godell trying to enfoirce that it goes against NFL interests for owners to have stakes in betting /Gambling. This from the friggin commish who covers up all the cheating and rule breaking going on with P*ats. Un..friggin.. believable...

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 11:03 AM
i'll put $500 in and i don't even want part ownership. i just want the steelers to remain in pittsburgh with the rooney's as the owners.

Agreed - I'd be willing to match that $500 with the same conditions. I want to see the Steelers remain in Pittsburgh under the control of the Rooneys. I don't believe for a minute the BS about the strong, loyal fanbase within the city somehow compelling a new owner(s) to keep the team there, especially when everything points to moving the team to a larger, more lucrative market in order to maximize the investment.

CantStop85
07-08-2008, 12:08 PM
i've actually heard of a small market soccer team in england/scotland [can't remember] where they were selling shares of the team and a group of people on a forum, much like this one fund-raised and gathered enough money to buy enough shares so that they were able to make important personel decisions...

i guess what'd they'd do is hold polls on the forum itself and based on majority vote the team would sign billy bob or release joe veteran... of course they'd also go into finer details of ticket prices, merchandise prices... it all sounds very appealing to me...

if only we had billions of dollars at the ready...

That would mean I get a vote as well, right? :flap:

revefsreleets
07-08-2008, 12:27 PM
If the Rooney's lose control of this team, I'll streak nekkid through the streets of Pittsburgh on the coldest day of winter with a giant rainbow banner that says "I love Tom Brady".

It's just not gonna happen, folks...

Vis
07-08-2008, 12:36 PM
No one needs to see that. It's settled, the Rooneys must keep the team.

tony hipchest
07-08-2008, 12:48 PM
the solution is so simple. why dont the steelers just sell the team to big ben? its not like he cant afford it, plus he could fire/critisize the likes of coordinators who hold him back at will.

KeiselPower99
07-08-2008, 01:14 PM
If the Rooneys ever lose control hell will freeze over and my poop will taste like rainbow sherbert. The franchise is built on the Rooney legacy and it would be a terrible thing to sell it to an outsider.

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 01:19 PM
the solution is so simple. why dont the steelers just sell the team to big ben? its not like he cant afford it, plus he could fire/critisize the likes of coordinators who hold him back at will.

:iagree: but then he might not be able to buy anymore cheese :chuckle:

rbryan
07-08-2008, 01:22 PM
Don't laugh. Its not like you have to look too far in the Burgh to find a precedent for the best player ending up as an owner....

43Hitman
07-08-2008, 06:21 PM
Don't laugh. Its not like you have to look too far in the Burgh to find a precedent for the best player ending up as an owner....

And he turned that team around. I don't think the Steelers are in any way close to the shape the pens were in when Mario took over. So, although I agree it's possible I just don't think its very plausible.

slashsteel
07-08-2008, 06:25 PM
Big Ben is wealthy but ummmmmmm not that wealthy. But he could buy some shares. Big Ben what ya think? :chuckle:

stillers4me
07-08-2008, 06:29 PM
I got my economic stimulus check this weekend.......will that be enough? :sofunny:

Edman
07-08-2008, 07:35 PM
The Steelers will not be sold to outside the Rooney Family and will not leave Pittsburgh. Before you know it, this little scare will pass.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-08-2008, 07:42 PM
Is it going to happen? (moving that is.) No.

Could it happen? Yes. And all fans of every 32 franchises have to realize this. It's pretty much been said as much "If It can happen in Cleveland..it can happen anywhere"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JFuN3-DbM9w

Is there really a reason too if someone did take over the team? It's making money from what I see. Stadiums new, and pretty nice looking. (and folks get some Turf on there. If CBS hosted as much stuff as Heinz did I'd be saying the same thing.). Unless LA somehow comes up with some ridiculously good stadium and a whole bunch of cash. I see Pittsburgh not jumping on that, but I could see someone like...Minnesota, or The Chargers going after it before Pittsburgh does. I don't see Pittsburgh going anywhere.

There is another team I see leaving fairly soon though, and its name is the Buffalo Bills. First NFL team in Canada is coming soon :(

BlastFurnace
07-08-2008, 07:45 PM
If, for arguement sake, someone outside of the Rooney family purchased the Steelers, they would be an absolute fool to move them out of Pittsburgh and abandon the most loyal and most traveled fan base in the entire league. The Steelers aren't hurting for attendance, money, etc. They have a relatively new stadium...unlike the Browns, Colts, Rams, and Raiders...who's move was highly sought out because of the sewer's they were playing in.

If...for another arguement sake...for some odd reason the NFL approved something like this...the league would probably keep the team name, records, colors in Pittsburgh like they did with the Stains.

Either way, the buyer will keep the Steelers in Pittsburgh....whether it be the Rooney's or not.

Edman
07-08-2008, 07:48 PM
I know I may have been tactless before. But it's true. Even the most presigious franchise can be moved. It tragically happened to Cleveland(Though their got the Browns back eventually), It can certainly happen to Pittsburgh.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-08-2008, 07:49 PM
The league would probably keep the team name, records, colors in Pittsburgh like they did with the Stains.

We had to fight the NFL for that. :flap:.

beSteelmyheart
07-08-2008, 08:29 PM
"If...for another arguement sake...for some odd reason the NFL approved something like this...the league would probably keep the team name, records, colors in Pittsburgh like they did with the Stains. "


It wouldn't matter, it wouldn't be the same. I would have to drop football all together or end up hating them with such a passion I'd have to be a Browns fan just for spite.

43Hitman
07-08-2008, 08:41 PM
"If...for another arguement sake...for some odd reason the NFL approved something like this...the league would probably keep the team name, records, colors in Pittsburgh like they did with the Stains. "


It wouldn't matter, it wouldn't be the same. I would have to drop football all together or end up hating them with such a passion I'd have to be a Browns fan just for spite.


I don't know if I would go that far. I would jump off a bridge first. But all this is moot, cause the Stillers just aren't going anywhere. And I'll put my house on that.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-08-2008, 08:54 PM
"If...for another arguement sake...for some odd reason the NFL approved something like this...the league would probably keep the team name, records, colors in Pittsburgh like they did with the Stains. "


It wouldn't matter, it wouldn't be the same. I would have to drop football all together or end up hating them with such a passion I'd have to be a Browns fan just for spite.

Wow..thats a sad take to have.

No offense, But I couldn't ever do the same with my Browns.

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 08:56 PM
"If...for another arguement sake...for some odd reason the NFL approved something like this...the league would probably keep the team name, records, colors in Pittsburgh like they did with the Stains. "


It wouldn't matter, it wouldn't be the same. I would have to drop football all together or end up hating them with such a passion I'd have to be a Browns fan just for spite.

I would no longer be a fan if the team did move. Thanks to Spygate, I would no longer be a NFL fan either. The Steelers are the ONLY reason I didn't drop the NFL entirely this past season due to that farce.

43Hitman
07-08-2008, 08:57 PM
Wow..thats a sad take to have.

No offense, But I couldn't ever do the same with my Browns.


I can't believe I actually agree with Brown's fan.:noidea:

Nice name by the way. :hatsoff:

millwalldavey
07-08-2008, 09:01 PM
There is another team I see leaving fairly soon though, and its name is the Buffalo Bills. First NFL team in Canada is coming soon :(

Never. The Canadian Government is so nationalistic and protective of their league, they will never let a rival to the Argos move there. They blocked the WFL and WLAF (when the WLAF could not land Toronto, they put a team in Montreal).

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_Act

This includes information that states the act may violate Free Trade Agreements... but you'll likely to never see an NFL franchise there.

Funny thing is, when the NFL helped the CFL out (in the 90's methinks) there were some rumors of an assimilation of the CFL teams. I'm sure it was mere speculation.

As for the Steelers... the Rooneys will keep it in the family. They may pay lip serivce to outside buyers, but I cannot see them not selling to Dan.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-08-2008, 09:01 PM
I can't believe I actually agree with Brown's fan.:noidea:

Nice name by the way. :hatsoff:

Thanks. I'm a fan of his mainly 'cuz of all the stories my dads told me about him. (Dads a Huge Boilermaker fan). I've got his autograph on a purdue wooden football. I'll have to post it one day.

Now in regards to a team moving and being a fan. If such a scenario did happen to Pittsburgh that did happen to the Brownies. Expect a lot of setbacks and rebuilding. :(

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-08-2008, 09:02 PM
Funny thing is, when the NFL helped the CFL out (in the 90's methinks) there were some rumors of an assimilation of the CFL teams. I'm sure it was mere speculation.

Always thought it'd have been cool if the CFL and NFL merged. (keeping the NFL rules of course ;)).

millwalldavey
07-08-2008, 09:13 PM
Always thought it'd have been cool if the CFL and NFL merged. (keeping the NFL rules of course ;)).

I really like watching th CFL.

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 09:14 PM
Never. The Canadian Government is so nationalistic and protective of their league, they will never let a rival to the Argos move there. They blocked the WFL and WLAF (when the WLAF could not land Toronto, they put a team in Montreal).

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_Act

This includes information that states the act may violate Free Trade Agreements... but you'll likely to never see an NFL franchise there.

Funny thing is, when the NFL helped the CFL out (in the 90's methinks) there were some rumors of an assimilation of the CFL teams. I'm sure it was mere speculation.

As for the Steelers... the Rooneys will keep it in the family. They may pay lip serivce to outside buyers, but I cannot see them not selling to Dan.
well if they move to canada here is a new name for them..lol Sascatchawan Steelers :rofl:

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 09:20 PM
Sorry I cannot be more eloquent about it - this most definitely sucks if true

A deal could be reached within days to sell a majority interest in the Pittsburgh Steelers to the chairman of a Pittsburgh-based investment firm, taking control of the NFL franchise away from the Rooney family.

The shares would be sold to Stanley Druckenmiller, chairman of Duquesne Capital management, making him principal owner of the team. Two officials familiar with the talks identified the buyer as Druckenmiller and said Monday that the deal could be completed by the end of the week. They declined to be identified because they were not directly involved in negotiations.

The impending sale is the result of a feud among members of one of sport's most renowned families and has been simmering about two years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3479062&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

:mad:

HometownGal
07-08-2008, 09:22 PM
well if they move to canada here is a new name for them..lol Sascatchawan Steelers :rofl:

Saskatchewan.

I really believe a lot of you are jumping the gun here and are worrying incessantly. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Steelers will remain in the Rooney family for several more generations and until I hear something to the contrary from Mr. Rooney's mouth, I will continue to believe that. Besides, they're all afraid The Chief will hit them in the hineys with a lightning bolt if they don't. :chuckle:

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 09:23 PM
Sorry I cannot be more eloquent about it - this most definitely sucks if true

A deal could be reached within days to sell a majority interest in the Pittsburgh Steelers to the chairman of a Pittsburgh-based investment firm, taking control of the NFL franchise away from the Rooney family.

The shares would be sold to Stanley Druckenmiller, chairman of Duquesne Capital management, making him principal owner of the team. Two officials familiar with the talks identified the buyer as Druckenmiller and said Monday that the deal could be completed by the end of the week. They declined to be identified because they were not directly involved in negotiations.

The impending sale is the result of a feud among members of one of sport's most renowned families and has been simmering about two years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3479062&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

:mad:

Has anyone started an over/under on how long it will take for Druckenmiller to cry poverty and that he's headed for bankruptcy if he's forced to stay in Pittsburgh in order to get the team moved into a larger market? :mad:

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 09:23 PM
Sorry I cannot be more eloquent about it - this most definitely sucks if true

:iagree::banging::mad: this just seems so wrong

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 09:25 PM
Saskatchewan.

I really believe a lot of you are jumping the gun here and are worrying incessantly. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Steelers will remain in the Rooney family for several more generations and until I hear something to the contrary from Mr. Rooney's mouth, I will continue to believe that. Besides, they're all afraid The Chief will hit them in the hineys with a lightning bolt if they don't. :chuckle:

i hope you are right .... you know i didnt have a thunderstorm roll thru here about 5pm.... :chuckle:

millwalldavey
07-08-2008, 09:26 PM
I can never see them moving anywhere. If they do... I cannot even imagine the heartbreak.

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 09:28 PM
I can never see them moving anywhere. If they do... I cannot even imagine the heartbreak.

I never saw the Browns ever moving either. Still happened.

lilyoder6
07-08-2008, 09:30 PM
they will most def keep the most % in the family.. i could actually poss see one of them sell to that guy who put his name out who said he would buy 16 %.. but like mr rooney said he will try as hard as he can to keep it in the family and 4 there familty to run it 4 at least another 75 yrs

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Has anyone started an over/under on how long it will take for Druckenmiller to cry poverty and that he's headed for bankruptcy if he's forced to stay in Pittsburgh in order to get the team moved into a larger market? :mad:

Druckenmiller apparently is loyal to the Burgh (he has kept his hedge fund, Duquesne Capital Mgmt, headquartered in Pittsburgh). Unfortunately, my only experience with billionaires buying NFL franchises I follow as a retirement toy is with Arthur Blank and the Falcons - that has not gone well:banging:

I am am just sad that the Rooney family, one of the last symbols of the original NFL and a part of Pittsburgh tradition, is being forced to sell.

AJR II better keep his bar dues paid up; Druckenmiller may have his own ideas about who should be in the front office

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 09:32 PM
I can never see them moving anywhere. If they do... I cannot even imagine the heartbreak.
hope they dont move in the middle of the night like baltimore did when they went to Indy.

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 09:35 PM
Druckenmiller apparently is loyal to the Burgh (he has kept his hedge fund, Duquesne Capital Mgmt, headquartered in Pittsburgh). Unfortunately, my only experience with billionaires buying NFL franchises I follow as a retirement toy is with Arthur Blank and the Falcons - that has not gone well:banging:

I am am just sad that the Rooney family, one of the last symbols of the original NFL and a part of Pittsburgh tradition, is being forced to sell.

AJR II better keep his bar dues paid up; Druckenmiller may have his own ideas about who should be in the front office

Like you, I'm also upset about the Rooneys being forced to sell for the reasons you cited and am probably overreacting (at least I hope I am). :hope:

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 09:42 PM
they will most def keep the most % in the family.. i could actually poss see one of them sell to that guy who put his name out who said he would buy 16 %.. but like mr rooney said he will try as hard as he can to keep it in the family and 4 there familty to run it 4 at least another 75 yrs
but unfortunely saying it and doing it are too different things...

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 09:49 PM
Extraordinarily insightful comments in a follow-up article on the potential sale in The Wall Street Journal:sofunny:

The Steelers' notoriously far-flung fans are watching the news closely. Dan Caldwell, 53, an attorney in Atlanta, said, "For people who've left the city, the part that they've kept with them is the Steelers." He said he has been a fan of the team since the 1960s and continued to be one when he moved away from the city in 1980. But he said he couldn't see the team leaving Pittsburgh. "That would be like the Yankees not being in New York," he said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121556617369337895.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news

katk9
07-08-2008, 09:51 PM
Posted an hour ago.

Financier bids for majority interest in Steelers

By DAVE GOLDBERG – 1 hour ago
A deal could be reached within days to sell a majority interest in the Pittsburgh Steelers to the chairman of a Pittsburgh-based investment firm, taking control of the NFL franchise away from the Rooney family.
The shares would be sold to Stanley Druckenmiller, chairman of Duquesne Capital management, making him principal owner of the team. Two officials familiar with the talks identified the buyer as Druckenmiller and said Monday that the deal could be completed by the end of the week. They declined to be identified because they were not directly involved in negotiations.
Druckenmiller's interest was first reported Monday by The Wall Street Journal, which said a secret study by Goldman Sachs valued the franchise at between $800 million and $1.2 billion. The report came a day after Dan Rooney said he and his son, team president Art Rooney II, were attempting to buy out his four brothers in an effort to retain "substantial ownership of the team."
Each brother owns 16 percent of the team, adding up to 80 percent, with another Pittsburgh family, the McGinleys, owning 20 percent.
Even if the deal with Druckenmiller goes through, it would still need approval by 24 of the league's 32 owners. Dan Rooney is, without question, the most influential and respected member of that group.
During the past 40 years, Rooney has helped resolve labor disputes, promoted racial diversity within the league and helped elect Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell as commissioners.
The impending sale is the result of a feud among members of one of sport's most renowned families and has been simmering about two years.
The 75-year-old Rooney is the oldest of five brothers. Their father, Art, bought the franchise in 1933 for $2,500.
Dan and Art are enshrined in Pro Football's Hall of Fame.
The other four brothers — Art Jr., Timothy, Patrick and John — want to drop their interest in the Steelers to concentrate on their race track and other interests, many of which involve the gambling industry. The Rooney family owns race tracks in New York and Florida and has added forms of gaming that are inconsistent with NFL gambling policy.
Goodell has asked Tagliabue to represent the league on Dan Rooney's behalf in talks to reach an agreement on a separation of the gambling interests and restructured ownership if part of the team is sold.
Rooney said in a statement Monday that with Tagliabue's help, he was attempting to put together a financing plan that would buy out his brothers and their families over a period of time.
"For the past two years, the Rooney family has had discussions about a restructuring of the ownership of the Steelers in order to ensure compliance with the NFL ownership policies and the continuation of the Rooney family ownership and operation of the team," the team said in the statement.
"I have spent my entire life devoted to the Pittsburgh Steelers and the National Football League," Dan Rooney said in the statement. "I will do everything possible to work out a solution to ensure my father's legacy of keeping the Steelers in the Rooney family and in Pittsburgh for at least another 75 years."
Druckenmiller did not immediately return a call placed to his office by The Associated Press.
Although he lives primarily in New York, he frequently attends Steelers games and is said to want to include Dan and Art Rooney II in his ownership group.

VTsteel
07-08-2008, 09:56 PM
Wow I'm floored . . . There are just some things you take for granted.

-The sun will come up tomorrow

-The birds will sing

- The grass will be green

-And the Rooneys will own the Steelers

Now, I just don't know.

As a fan I am always proud to call the Rooneys "my" owners - will I feel that same pride with Mr. Druckenmiller? (I doubt it)

tony hipchest
07-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Extraordinarily insightful comments in a follow-up article on the potential sale in The Wall Street Journal:sofunny:

The Steelers' notoriously far-flung fans are watching the news closely. Dan Caldwell, 53, an attorney in Atlanta, said, "For people who've left the city, the part that they've kept with them is the Steelers." He said he has been a fan of the team since the 1960s and continued to be one when he moved away from the city in 1980. But he said he couldn't see the team leaving Pittsburgh. "That would be like the Yankees not being in New York," he said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121556617369337895.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news

sweet!!! :thumbsup:

:drink:

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 10:07 PM
sweet!!! :thumbsup:

:drink:

The Forum also gets cited in the article

Plus my former next door neighbor in Upper St. Clair, Jim O'Brien, gets quoted:thumbsup:

tony hipchest
07-08-2008, 10:20 PM
The Forum also gets cited in the article

Plus my former next door neighbor in Upper St. Clair, Jim O'Brien, gets quoted:thumbsup:i just saw that!

But fans in Pittsburgh and those around the country who have strong ties to the team are unsettled. "I'm having a hard time breathing," posted one fan on Steelers Fever, a fan Web site, in response to the news. "This is a dark, dark day in Steelers history," another wrote.

:huh: no mention of my idea of selling to ben?

:doh: i knew i shoulda suggested selling to john kuhn.:chuckle:

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 10:23 PM
i just saw that!



:huh: no mention of my idea of selling to ben?

:doh: i knew i shoulda suggested selling to john kuhn.:chuckle:
do we see a partnership brewing....:rofl:

Atlanta Dan
07-08-2008, 10:56 PM
Another depressing story, this one from The New York Times - sounds like the other brothers want paid in cash - in this economy so would I

Two years ago, N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell quietly told the owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers that they needed to change their ownership structure to comply with league rules.

The brothers who were not directly involved in running the Steelers — Timothy, Patrick and John Rooney — did not want to give up their gambling interests because of their profitability. Instead, they moved to sell their shares of the team.
At first, this appeared to be a good sign for Dan Rooney, the team’s chairman; his son, Art II, the team’s president; and Dan Rooney’s oldest brother, Art Jr., who wanted to maintain control of the team.

But there were disagreements about the value of certain properties — in particular the dog track in Florida in which the family has invested heavily in recent years — and it became apparent that the other Rooneys did not have the capital to buy out their brothers.

Financially there were also concerns with the plan for the franchise to take on debt. Timothy, Patrick and John Rooney were not interested in being paid over several years for their shares.

“Loading up on debt in a market like Pittsburgh is not a good idea, especially with new stadiums going up in major markets,” the consultant said, referring to new stadiums in the New York and Dallas markets, and the pull they may have on advertising money....

“Negotiations are ongoing between the parties, and who knows when it will get done?” the financial consultant said. “But right now it’s a complete mess. These guys can’t agree on anything.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/sports/football/09steelers.html?ref=sports

Interesting the tensions between the Rooney brothers have been known for some time in Pittsburgh, as HTG posted. Of course, given the Rooneys clout in Pittsburgh, the Post-Gazette wanted no part of breaking the story and The Wall Street Journal had to do it.

fansince'76
07-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Two years ago, N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell quietly told the owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers that they needed to change their ownership structure to comply with league rules.

Stick it up your ass, Goodell. After Spygate, and how this schmuck handled it (read: swept it under the carpet) I really don't want to hear it.

TackleMeBen
07-08-2008, 11:12 PM
Stick it up your ass, Goodell. After Spygate, and how this schmuck handled it (read: swept it under the carpet) I really don't want to hear it.
:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit: ..i bet if this was bob kraft goodell would turn the other cheek and say i didnt know he was doing anything against NFL rules... goodell is a jackbutt

tony hipchest
07-08-2008, 11:48 PM
i was suprised to read that the dog track in florida was more profitable than an NFL franchise. i wonder how much dan rooneys stake in the 2 tracks is worth? you would like to think he could pull off a swap of shares, but im sure its just a fraction of what an NFL team is worth, being that they are so rare.

gotta admire him though. its sounds like he could easilly cut and run, and see more dough than him, or several generations beyond, would ever need. its obvious he isnt in it for the money. the steelers are his child, and he built them into what they are.

fight the good fight, dan!

Black@Gold Forever32
07-09-2008, 12:29 AM
The Steelers will never move especially if its Drunkenmiller that buys the majority of the shares....He wants Dan Rooney and Art II to remain as minority owners and Dan can run the team as long as he wants....Drunkenmiller is also a native of Pittsburgh and life long fan....

We have to remember there is no labor peace right now since the owners bailed on the collective bargain agreement.....There is a chance the salary cap may disappear and never come back.....The Rooney's wouldn't have the capital to field a competitive team without a cap....The Steelers would need a owner with deep pockets like Drunkenmiller....It does suck and its sad that the Rooney's won't be the majority owners of the Steelers.....But in the end it might the move that saved the Steelers franchise...We all discussed on what could happen if the salary cap was gone....With Drunkenmiller the Steelers will have an owner that can compete with the deep pockets of Jerry Jones or Robert Kraft....

But I must say the other Rooney brothers can suck a fat one......They do sound like pricks.....I agree on Goodell and that he is a big douche...Whats sad is Mr. Rooney helped in getting him elected as NFL commissioner........

Preacher
07-09-2008, 12:44 AM
If this is serious...

I wouldn't be surprised to see an ownership group of Bettis, Cowher, and a few old Steeler players step to the plate.

steelreserve
07-09-2008, 01:13 AM
I can never see them moving anywhere. If they do... I cannot even imagine the heartbreak.

That's one thing that will never happen. I mean, before the Steelers got sold to some schmuck who would move the team to L.A., people would raise the money to buy them out and make them a publicly owned team like the Packers. Pittsburgh is probably the one other place in the country where that could actually happen.

Stlrs4Life
07-09-2008, 01:15 AM
Everybody needs to chill out, the Steelers are nopt going anywhere. They are staying inn Pittsburgh, relax, and take a deep breath for crying out loud, people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

OneForTheToe
07-09-2008, 01:29 AM
Honestly, as shocking as this is, it may turn out that Drunkenmiller is the best option the Steelers have. Ok, actually the best option would be to let things run as they have for the past 75 years by having the other Rooney family members sell to Dan and son at reduced price - but that is not going to happen. The fact is that other Rooney’s are correct about one thing, even if it is for selfish reasons, Dan and his son Art would have to incur far too much debt in order to buy out the rest of the family shares at FMV.. Even if the name on the ownership remains Rooney, that much debt is not healthy for any business, let lone one that has salaries obligated in the 100's of millions of dollars. At least Drunkenmiller has some ties to Pittsburgh. I mean am not in favor of anyone but Dan and son being in charge of the Steelers, but let’s not presume that this Drunkenmiller is an 'evil doer' before he even gets to speak.

Maybe the best outcome yet available is that, after it becomes clear to Drunkenmiller that Dan Rooney will be able to block a majority bid, he (Drunkenmiller) then agrees to buy a substantial minority share in the team. Actually, the "new money" would not necessarily be a bad thing. Of course, billionaires don't generally like staying in the background or in the minority.

As for the team moving, that is just unrealistic. This is not a similar situation to Cleveland. First, in Cleveland it was the primary owner, doofus Modell, who wanted to move the team over a dispute about a new stadium. The Steelers have a new stadium with a lease that probably obligates them to the ‘burgh anyhow. Second, the market place has changed for moving a NFL franchise. Other than LA, there just aren't many big markets in need of a team. Finally the NFL and Goodell made a statement when they appointed Tagliabue as their representative. Dan and Paul have been bff's for how many years. That was a very strong message to anyone of who the NFL backs in this fight.

OneForTheToe
07-09-2008, 01:46 AM
A pretty good Q/A by John Clayton:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3478129

Q: Why do the Rooneys have to restructure?



A: In many ways, this reorganization was inevitable. Art Rooney Sr.'s legacy was the Steelers and racing. In the early 1970s, Art purchased a dog track in West Palm Beach, Fla., a harness horse racing track in Yonkers, N.Y., and other racing investments. His five sons -- Dan, Art Jr., Timothy, Patrick and John -- own the majority of the Steelers' stock, divided in five equal shares. Dan ran the Steelers. Most of the other brothers handled the racing interests. In 2006, video slots were added to Yonkers Raceway, but NFL ownership rules prohibit gambling interests as investments for team owners. To comply with league rules, the Rooneys either had to divest their ownership shares in the Steelers or eliminate the slots. The decision of some of the brothers was to keep the slots and enter into buyout negotiations with Dan and Art II. Two years of talks have not produced a deal.



Q: Is there any fear the Steelers might leave Pittsburgh?



A: None. Because of the loyalty of Steelers fans and the success of Heinz Field, the Steelers are a successful business. The team generates $200 million in revenue and profits are reportedly at $20 million a year. The franchise is worth between $800 million and $1.2 billion. To move a franchise, a team must post financial losses for a few years. That's not happening in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are a winner on and off the field. The Steelers brand is one of the best in sports. The plan is for Dan and Art II to buy out some of Dan's four brothers, which will have an impact on operating expenses in years to come because they will have to borrow money to buy out their family members.


Q: Will the Steelers stay under the direction of Dan and Art II?



A: Most likely, but major changes in ownership must occur. According to one plan, Dan offered $35 million to each brother and the McGinley family, which owns 20 percent of the team, for a 5 percent stake in the Steelers. The brothers believe the price of the shares should be higher, so talks continue. To fund these transactions, Dan and Art II probably need to come up with a new partner, and the name being mentioned is Pittsburgh billionaire Stanley Druckenmiller, the chairman of Duquesne Capital Management. Druckenmiller, who's worth $3 billion, once lived in Pittsburgh, and was a loyal fan. He lives in New York now, but still has a company office in Pittsburgh.

Q: How is the league office handling the situation?


A: The league is sensitive to the Rooney ownership issues and isn't putting any pressure on the family. The league has imposed no deadline for resolution, and former commissioner Paul Tagliabue has offered his services as a consultant to mediate the situation. The league wants Dan and Art II to continue to run the Steelers, and it wants to make sure the team doesn't incur more debt than is manageable. That support has bought the organization two years to solve this problem. Even though the league has been working with the Steelers for those two years, it never leaked any of the details to the media. Years of being a model franchise earned the Steelers that perk.


Q: What will be the final resolution?



A: Ultimately, Dan and Art II should end up continuing to run the Steelers. Once the brothers who want to sell settle on the value of those shares, deals will be worked out. It probably means that a noncontrolling new partner such as Druckenmiller will be brought in as an investor. Budgets might be a little tighter because of a new debt load, but the Steelers should still be the Steelers in the end.

Steel Pit
07-09-2008, 02:54 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08191/895718-66.stm

Investor in talks to control Steelers
Billionaire seeks shares of 3 or 4 Rooney brothers
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Less than a year after they celebrated the 75th anniversary of one of the greatest family-owned franchises in sports history, the Steelers appear to be on the precipice of a major restructuring in ownership that could result in the franchise being controlled by a billionaire investor whose last name is not Rooney.

Stanley Druckenmiller, who owns Pittsburgh-based Duquesne Capital Management and whose lifelong dream is to own the Steelers, is engaged in negotiations with at least three, and possibly four, of the five Rooney brothers to purchase their shares of the franchise and become majority owner of the team -- a move that has pitted Steelers chairman Dan Rooney in an awkward and perhaps contentious financial battle against the rest of his brothers.

Mr. Druckenmiller, 55, an Oakmont Country Club member who lives in New York and is known as the "Tiger Woods of Wall Street," was approached by a member or representative of the Rooney family several months ago about purchasing the shares of at least three of the brothers, believed to be Tim, Pat and John Rooney.

According to a source who is a friend of Mr. Druckenmiller, he might also be in position to purchase the share owned by Art Rooney Jr., a move that would give Druckenmiller controlling interest of a franchise that has been owned by the Rooney family since the late Art Rooney Sr. purchased the team in 1933. Goldman Sachs & Co., a Wall Street investment bank, is negotiating the financial arrangement.

The five Rooney brothers combine to own 80 percent of the team, with each owning an equal share, or 16 percent. The family of Jack McGinley, who died in October 2006, owns the other 20 percent.

"This is the first time this has been this serious," said McGinley's son, Pittsburgh attorney John McGinley Jr.

Mr. Druckenmiller is the only investor who has been approached by the Rooney family, according to a source familiar with the situation. However, his involvement has forced Dan Rooney, the oldest of the five brothers, and his son, Art II, the team's vice president, to seek additional financing to purchase the brothers' shares and keep controlling interest of the franchise in the family.

Mr. Druckenmiller declined comment yesterday. However, his friend told the Post-Gazette that it has been Mr. Druckenmiller's "lifelong dream" to own the Steelers and that he has no intention of relocating the team or disrupting the management of the franchise. According to the friend, Mr. Druckenmiller said that Dan Rooney can run the team "as long as he wants."

Mr. Druckenmiller is such a die-hard Steelers fan that he flies from New York to every home game and even paints his face black-and-gold, his friend said.

"I don't think there is any doubt that anyone who looked at this operation would want to have Dan and Art involved," Mr. McGinley said. "I hope this works out. We live too close to each other. These guys are like my brothers."

The restructuring of the owners could be completed by next month, according to a person familiar with the situation.

The restructuring of the ownership has been going on quietly for two years, in part because Dan Rooney is trying to comply with National Football League policy that prohibits owners from having a financial investment in racetracks and gambling.

Three of the Rooney brothers who own an equal share of the team -- Tim, John and Pat -- are involved in the operation of Empire City at Yonkers Raceway, a harness racing track in Yonkers, N.Y.; and the Palm Beach Kennel Club in West Palm Beach, Fla. Each of those facilities also includes slots and/or gaming tables.

But that is not the sole reason for the restructuring. According to a family member, the brothers are concerned about their advancing age and want to pass their financial share of the franchise to their children -- an enticing prospect when they learned the franchise was valued between $800 million and $1.2 billion by Goldman Sachs.

Some of the Rooney brothers were upset when Dan Rooney, the oldest son of founder Art Rooney Sr., gave them a buyout proposal that they felt was significantly undervalued, a source said. That's when a member or representative of the family approached Mr. Druckenmiller about purchasing their shares.

More than a decade ago, the late Jack McGinley Sr., who was married to the sister of Art Rooney Sr., received a call from an intermediary who said he knew someone who would buy the McGinley shares if they became available. According to McGinley's son, John, his father responded, "Tell him we're quite happy the way things are."

That person interested in buying the McGinley shares was Mr. Druckenmiller.

It is not known if the McGinley family would still refuse to sell its shares to Mr. Druckenmiller, but he does not need them to gain controlling interest.

If Mr. Druckenmiller purchased the shares of three brothers, he would own 48 percent of the Steelers, more than either Dan Rooney or the McGinley family, but still not enough to have controlling interest. If he purchased the shares of four brothers -- a possibility according to at least two sources -- he would have 64 percent and become the principal owner.

That is what Dan Rooney and Art Rooney II are trying to prevent. They are seeking to buy the brothers' shares to gain controlling interest of the franchise, something they revealed in a statement released Monday afternoon. Former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, an attorney, is working with the Steelers to remedy the situation.

Greg Aiello, an NFL spokesman, said the league would not comment on the Rooney re-structuring, saying it supported the statement released by the Steelers. Mr. Aiello said the NFL is not pressuring the Rooneys into restructuring.

The NFL requires all new owners to have at least 30 percent controlling interest in the franchise. The Steelers, though, are among a handful of older franchises that do not have to abide by that policy because they were "grandfathered" under the old guidelines.

fansince'76
07-09-2008, 03:10 AM
Greg Aiello, an NFL spokesman, said the league would not comment on the Rooney re-structuring, saying it supported the statement released by the Steelers. Mr. Aiello said the NFL is not pressuring the Rooneys into restructuring.

Oh really?

Two years ago, N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell quietly told the owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers that they needed to change their ownership structure to comply with league rules.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/sports/football/09steelers.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

More BS from the Commish's office. Imagine that. Aiello and Goodell should run for public office. :coffee:

Galax Steeler
07-09-2008, 04:43 AM
Everybody needs to chill out, the Steelers are nopt going anywhere. They are staying inn Pittsburgh, relax, and take a deep breath for crying out loud, people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Have to agree they aren't going to let them go any where they will be here for along time if not forever.

Vis
07-09-2008, 05:28 AM
Stick it up your ass, Goodell. After Spygate, and how this schmuck handled it (read: swept it under the carpet) I really don't want to hear it.

It does seem they gave the Steelers all the time they needed. This hasn't been a story for the last two years.

Vis
07-09-2008, 05:34 AM
Everybody needs to chill out, the Steelers are nopt going anywhere. They are staying inn Pittsburgh, relax, and take a deep breath for crying out loud, people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Still, Druckie can say all day long in the interests of PR that he will let Dan run things but once he has his new toy, watch out.

"I'm bored of this coach", "why not some baby blue on the unis?" "I should party with Ben and some college girls"

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 06:24 AM
The Steelers being owned by anyone other than the Rooney family is just ....well......wrong. Ok, Ok,...........sometimes a little change can be a good thing. But the Steelers have become who they are because of the Rooney's, plain and simple. And what happens after Dan is gone?

This guy is supposedly a diehard fan. He'll know he has to do something major to win the hearts and minds of the Steelers Nation. I say the first thing he does is nix McBeam. :chuckle:


In all honesty, we have to come to grips that something major is going to happen. We, as fans have to admit that Dan Rooney is doing everything humanly possible to keep the Steelers in Pittsburgh and in the hands of someone who loves the team and the city of Pittsburgh. It could be much, much worse. We would all love to have Dan live forever and the Rooney family stay in complete control. The winds of change are blowing and we just have to hope for the best. Trust in the Rooneys.........as always.

Vis
07-09-2008, 06:53 AM
But he hates sitting in a box preferring the stands. As owner I bet he prowls the sidelines. And what could be more fun for a fan than participating in the draft war room?

Here's the thing - he can't help but change the culture.

k7brown
07-09-2008, 07:05 AM
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121556617369337895.html?mod=Sports90_1

'Hail, Mary': Steelers Fans Face Realities of a Sale

By KRIS MAHER
July 9, 2008; Page A2

PITTSBURGH -- News that the longtime owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers could sell part or all of the football franchise is sending shockwaves through Steeler Nation.

The Rooney family has been associated with the franchise since Art Rooney Sr., one of the National Football League's legendary owners, purchased the team in 1933. His five sons now control the team. The family has sought interest from outside investors, The Wall Street Journal reported Monday.

Here in Pittsburgh, the possibility that the team could be sold -- or even sold and moved to another city -- is wrenching for many fans because the Steelers have become such an integral part of the city and its self-image since the steel industry imploded in the 1980s.

Stanley Druckenmiller, billionaire chairman of Duquesne Capital Management, in Pittsburgh, is a possible bidder, according to people briefed on the negotiations. Mr. Druckenmiller has told Rooney family members that he would ask the team's chairman, Dan Rooney, to continue running the team and that it would remain in Pittsburgh.

Mr. Rooney, the eldest son of the team's founder, said Monday he would do "everything possible" to ensure that the team remains based in Pittsburgh and under family control. His son, Steelers President Art Rooney II, said "there is no reason to believe" current discussions about ownership would impact fans. A team spokesman said Tuesday the Rooney family had no further comment.

But fans in Pittsburgh and those around the country who have strong ties to the team are unsettled. "I'm having a hard time breathing," posted one fan on Steelers Fever, a fan Web site, in response to the news. "This is a dark, dark day in Steelers history," another wrote.

"I, along with most of the Steeler Nation, seem to be in a state of shock," said Kyle Brown, a 20-year-old fan who lives in Garrettsville, Ohio. Mr. Brown said his parents grew up in Johnstown, Pa., and "thankfully" raised him to be a Steelers fan. "The Rooney family are people that we have come to know and love," he added.

Some fans weren't willing to admit that a change in the team's ownership structure could lead to changes for fans. The chances that the Steelers could leave Pittsburgh are "zero," said David Fair, 39 years old, a graphic designer who lives in New Kensington, a Pittsburgh suburb, who runs a fan site named Steeler Nation. "The team is everything to the city," said Mr. Fair, noting that if the team loses on a Sunday "this town is in a deep, dark depression."

Perhaps, but sports experts said the history of other football teams should give Steelers fans pause. Jim O'Brien, a Pittsburgh sports author and historian who has written 12 books on the Steelers, noted that Los Angeles, Cleveland and Baltimore -- each with a once-storied franchise -- have all lost football teams. He suggested fans would be naive to think the team couldn't be moved. "To me, it's a possibility," he said. "It's unsettling because people wouldn't want to see anyone but the Rooneys running the Steelers."

The city's affection for the Steelers founder will be on display in "The Chief," a one-man play about Art Rooney Sr.'s life scheduled for its sixth run at the Pittsburgh Public Theatre in September. Fans typically show up at performances wearing team jerseys and team-color black-and-gold paraphernalia.

Rob Zellers, who co-wrote the play and is education director at the theater, said he was "blown away" by the thought that the Rooney family could sell. "They have grace, and they care about the community," he said. "There's just some things that you can never imagine."

The Steelers' notoriously far-flung fans are watching the news closely. Dan Caldwell, 53, an attorney in Atlanta, said, "For people who've left the city, the part that they've kept with them is the Steelers." He said he has been a fan of the team since the 1960s and continued to be one when he moved away from the city in 1980. But he said he couldn't see the team leaving Pittsburgh. "That would be like the Yankees not being in New York," he said.

Steelers Fever got some excellent press, today... and it appears as though we have a few members that made it in the article as well!!! :-)

Steelman16
07-09-2008, 07:15 AM
Good read, likin' the SF coverage :wink02:

Congratz to stillers4me and RoethlisBURGHer for the honors. :drink:

HometownGal
07-09-2008, 07:23 AM
I think top honors for the props go to our very own Atlanta Dan:

The Steelers' notoriously far-flung fans are watching the news closely. Dan Caldwell, 53, an attorney in Atlanta, said, "For people who've left the city, the part that they've kept with them is the Steelers." He said he has been a fan of the team since the 1960s and continued to be one when he moved away from the city in 1980. But he said he couldn't see the team leaving Pittsburgh. "That would be like the Yankees not being in New York," he said.


Excellent! :applaudit::hatsoff::drink:

k7brown
07-09-2008, 07:36 AM
"I, along with most of the Steeler Nation, seem to be in a state of shock," said Kyle Brown, a 20-year-old fan who lives in Garrettsville, Ohio. Mr. Brown said his parents grew up in Johnstown, Pa., and "thankfully" raised him to be a Steelers fan. "The Rooney family are people that we have come to know and love," he added.

For those that dont know... thats me!

Congratulations to the other SF Members that made it in the article.

And also, a special thanks goes out to Kris Maher.

HometownGal
07-09-2008, 07:46 AM
For those that dont know... thats me!

Congratulations to the other SF Members that made it in the article.

And also, a special thanks goes out to Kris Maher.

Excellent k7! :drink::thumbsup:

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 08:06 AM
For those that dont know... thats me!

Congratulations to the other SF Members that made it in the article.

And also, a special thanks goes out to Kris Maher.

Congrats :drink:

The Forum was a major player in the WSJ story

fansince'76
07-09-2008, 08:58 AM
It does seem they gave the Steelers all the time they needed. This hasn't been a story for the last two years.

How big of them. Sorry, I just find the "enforcement of league rules" where it comes to the current commish to be a huge laugh. Why should it be a story? The family has owned the racetrack in Florida for decades, and the current status quo as far as team ownership has been in place for more than 20+ years since the Chief passed away. And now in the last 2 years it becomes an issue? Not exactly the same as illegally videotaping other teams' signals.

Vis
07-09-2008, 09:05 AM
Wasn't it the addition of the slots that caused the issue?

Counselor
07-09-2008, 09:34 AM
Wasn't it the addition of the slots that caused the issue?

Yes it was the addition of the slots which made the difference. I can understand these rules. Owners with major ties to gambling could cause significant problems for the league.

And here is an interesting thought: With the possibility of the salary cap and other trappings of the CBA being tossed out in the next couple of years ( I still think they'll get something worked out, but who knows) does having an owner worth 3.5 billion help us? I would think that it does.

Vis
07-09-2008, 09:35 AM
Yes it was the addition of the slots which made the difference. I can understand these rules. Owners with major ties to gambling could cause significant problems for the league.

And here is an interesting thought: With the possibility of the salary cap and other trappings of the CBA being tossed out in the next couple of years ( I still think they'll get something worked out, but who knows) does having an owner worth 3.5 billion help us? I would think that it does.


But will he want to pick the players? Will he buy over-the-hill big named players like Snyder?

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2008, 09:51 AM
Last night, I sacrificed 3 raiders hats and 6 browns t-shirts and 4 Ravens mascot dolls at my personal alter of Terry Bradshaw while quoting over and over again every word from the broadcast of the 1979 SB against the Cowboys.

The Team will be fine. I have made it so. No worries folks, move along.

revefsreleets
07-09-2008, 09:56 AM
You mean my comment about streaking with a rainbow gay pride flad adorned with "I love Tom Brady" didn't make this article?

Damned biased media!:tt02:

Is Atlanta Dan referred to in that article? I recognized Diamond Dave from SN.

rbryan
07-09-2008, 10:05 AM
As far as I'm concerned the Rooney legacy dies with Dan Rooney anyway.

I don't have much faith in Art II running the show any better than Drunkenmiller. I think the Rooney's borrowing that much money to maintain control will end up hurting the franchise moreso than if the billionaire takes over. As another poster mentioned, the CBA and the salary cap may be history in the next few years. If that happens the Rooneys will never be able to compete with the majority of the other owners if they have this extra debt.

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 10:07 AM
i know losing the rooneys as owners would be the end of a great era, and steelerfans are traditionalists like no other, but lets not compare this new potential owner to the devil (or worse- dan snyder) yet.

he seems like a good guy who would do the steelers some good. i know this will sound like sacrilige but i dont hear too many cowboys or patriot fans complain about the championships their billionaire owners were able to deliver.

i dont think any team potentially put up for sale has been more stable and primed to win than the steelers.

check out this article on stan and take it for what its worth:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_576679.html
'Low key' billionaire eyes Steelers

Next time you're at Heinz Field watching the Steelers, the boisterous fan next to you with his face painted black and gold, the guy so into the game he high-fives anyone next to him, might be a multibillionaire who can quote poet T.S. Eliot and spends his free time working with poor kids in Harlem.
He also might own the Steelers.


Friends, golfing buddies at Oakmont Country Club and those who directly benefited from his charity describe Druckenmiller as a humble but complex man of middle-class roots who rabidly roots for the Steelers when he's not orchestrating lucrative global capital schemes.

Golf handicap? Nine. And he's been a member of Oakmont Country Club for three decades. He flips delicious pancakes. He earned degrees in English literature and economics from elite Bowdoin College in Maine, where fellow students recalled him as a genius who was destined to be a professor.


Close friends claim he's "brilliant" and "complicated" and unfailingly loyal, a man who hates publicity but who quietly bankrolls many of the nation's top charities.

"With Stanley Druckenmiller, it's family first. I'd like to say friends come second, but the truth, and he'll kill me for saying this, is that I'd never come between him and a Steelers' game, and I'd like to think of myself as a pretty good friend," said Geoffrey Canada with a laugh.


According to Canada, Druckenmiller has long termed the Steelers' franchise the "best run in America." He high-fives fans in neighboring seats after particularly stellar plays. He grows morose when the Steelers lose.

"I remember he once thanked Dan Rooney for having winning seasons. I can appreciate that because people don't know what it's like to live with Stan when they're losing. I'm telling you, there is no bigger fan of the Steelers than Stanley Druckenmiller."

When he makes friends, he makes them for life. He didn't go to New York and forget about the guys back in Pittsburgh," said Oakmont's head golf pro, Bob Ford. "I told Tiger that Druck is to Wall Street what he is to golf."

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 10:09 AM
i dont see what the big deal is about the slot machines... its not like they are betting on football games. as i stated earlier, Mr Iltich owns the motorcity casino in detroit that has a whole floor of slot machines and other gambling things and he still owns the red wings and tigers. goodell just wants to be a prick that is the bottom line...

rbryan
07-09-2008, 10:11 AM
Can we see if this guy has any interest in buying the Pirates too???......lol

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 10:17 AM
You mean my comment about streaking with a rainbow gay pride flad adorned with "I love Tom Brady" didn't make this article?

Damned biased media!:tt02:

Is Atlanta Dan referred to in that article? I recognized Diamond Dave from SN.:sofunny:

dan is quoted in the final paragraph. the ws journalist posted his ph # and email addy in this thread and asked for a call from steelerfans and i recon dan was one of the few who actually called him up or e-mailed his ph # for a little interview.

:drink:

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by revefsreleets
You mean my comment about streaking with a rainbow gay pride flad adorned with "I love Tom Brady" didn't make this article?


now that would be funny to see.... hopefully, you wont have to do that

Vis
07-09-2008, 10:21 AM
It's not just the team who loses if the Rooneys go. Think of all that the family has done for the league. Remember the last CBA extension. Druckenmiller can be the best guy in the world but he won't have the clout to get the different sides to the table like Ronney could.

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 10:26 AM
It's not just the team who loses if the Rooneys go. Think of all that the family has done for the league. Remember the last CBA extension. Druckenmiller can be the best guy in the world but he won't have the clout to get the different sides to the table like Ronney could.drukenmiller is on record as stating that the steelers are the best run organization out there and that he is not trying to push dan and art II-d2 out the door.

hes rich, not stupid.

rbryan
07-09-2008, 10:29 AM
In the end, as usual, it matters little what we think, but I'm not jumping off a bridge if Drunkenmiller takes over.

Vis
07-09-2008, 10:29 AM
drukenmiller is on record as stating that the steelers are the best run organization out there and that he is not trying to push dan and art II-d2 out the door.

hes rich, not stupid.

He's brilliant. So he'll think he knows what's best for the team.

I hope I'm wrong but I'm venting all my worries. Therapy.

OneForTheToe
07-09-2008, 10:30 AM
Can we see if this guy has any interest in buying the Pirates too???......lol

The guy didn't become a billionaire by failing to being able to spot a "a dog" when he sees one.

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 10:32 AM
drukenmiller is on record as stating that the steelers are the best run organization out there and that he is not trying to push dan and art II-d2 out the door.

hes rich, not stupid.

Dan - no doubt he stays forever as constitutional monarch

AJR II? - if Druckenmiller buys out the other 4 brothers then AJR II may be back to practicing law sooner rather than later. Once someone gets the car keys they do not want to leave that Ferrari for the previous owner to drive but will want to get behind the wheel themselves.

rbryan
07-09-2008, 10:35 AM
The guy didn't become a billionaire by failing to being able to spot a "a dog" when he sees one.

All the more reason to pick them up at a bargain basement price....lol

The difference between buying the Pirates and the Steelers right now is like the difference between buying a foreclosed home at 1/2 price compared to paying retail for new construction.

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 10:36 AM
i am going to have to agree with dan here. i think at first he will leave things alone, but what if we have a bad season.. who's to say he doesnt come in and revamp everything??? and trade and cut guys???

rbryan
07-09-2008, 10:40 AM
We trade and cut players every year...I'm not sure why you have any more faith in Art II to do the right thing once he's in control.(The thought of him taking over someday has always worried me) At least Drunkenmiller can afford to own the team.

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 10:48 AM
We trade and cut players every year...I'm not sure why you have any more faith in Art II to do the right thing once he's in control.(The thought of him taking over someday has always worried me) At least Drunkenmiller can afford to own the team.
that is true you do cut and trade players every year. i am talking more alone the lines of the good players.. who's to say he gets control and (lets say,hypothically)he and our franchise qb have words.. he gets mad and trades him??? (not that it would happen, but i am just saying)...

fansince'76
07-09-2008, 10:48 AM
This is what kind of worries me:

According to Canada, Druckenmiller has long termed the Steelers' franchise the "best run in America." He high-fives fans in neighboring seats after particularly stellar plays. He grows morose when the Steelers lose.

"I remember he once thanked Dan Rooney for having winning seasons. I can appreciate that because people don't know what it's like to live with Stan when they're losing. I'm telling you, there is no bigger fan of the Steelers than Stanley Druckenmiller."

There is no bigger fan of the Redskins than Dan Snyder either, and look what that's gotten them. Just because a guy has deep pockets and follows the game as a fan doesn't mean he's GM material.

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 10:52 AM
This is what kind of worries me:



There is no bigger fan of the Redskins than Dan Snyder, and look what that's gotten them. Just because a guy has deep pockets and follows the game as a fan doesn't mean he's GM material.
exactly...dont you feel sorry for those redskin fans... oh wait no i dont(since my ex was a huge fan)

oldschool
07-09-2008, 11:00 AM
It kind of sounds like the "Steelers Nation" is trying to buy out the other Rooney brothers. Instead of a million of us pitching in 600 bucks each we have one of us with 600 or so million to spend. In the long run this may not be a bad thing, it had to happen some day.

OneForTheToe
07-09-2008, 11:02 AM
I still believe that something can be worked out that leaves the Rooneys in control at least for the time that Dan is still around. How about Rooneys control 40%, as does "Drukie" (hey he has to get a nickname), while the other 20% remains with the other family?

I don't have the worry about Art II that some here seem to have. I also don't believe that a salary cap will disappear in the NFL for more than a year. However, the need for the Rooneys to bring in an outside inventor is probably inevitable at some point in their ownership. It is just that the family issues and gambling holdings have accelerated the inevitable. So, not to put on the rose colored glasses, but if drukie turns out to be a decent co owner lets not look a gift billionaire in the mouth just yet.

OneForTheToe
07-09-2008, 11:10 AM
This is what kind of worries me:



There is no bigger fan of the Redskins than Dan Snyder either, and look what that's gotten them. Just because a guy has deep pockets and follows the game as a fan doesn't mean he's GM material.


Very true fansince76. Likewise, Matt Millen is a huge Lions fan and that doesn't make him a good GM either. Still, the opposite could be true as well in that not every billionaire fan who buys a team will necessarily turn out to be a bumbling, armature, meddling GM like Snyder.

I’m willing to wait and see.

Remember any new ownership agreement still needs 24 of Dan Rooney's fellow owner’s approval.

fansince'76
07-09-2008, 11:12 AM
Very true fansince76. Likewise, Matt Millen is a huge Lions fan and that doesn't make him a good GM either. Still, the opposite could be true as well in that not every billionaire fan who buys a team will necessarily turn out to be a bumbling, armature, meddling GM like Snyder.

I’m willing to wait and see.

Remember any new ownership agreement still needs 24 of Dan Rooney's fellow owner’s approval.

Yeah, I'm just a little unsettled by the news at the moment - I'm willing to give the guy a chance if the deal does go through. :drink:

BlastFurnace
07-09-2008, 12:18 PM
What concerns me...if this lingers...is that uncertainty of any kind hovering over a team can have negative effects on the upcoming season.

The good things that...I think I know are:

I have a very hard time believing the NFL will allow the Rooney's to lose the Steelers either alltogether...or...to someone who would not be of the best interest of the Steelers.

The league has learned it's lesson from the Browns move. With the new stadium in place, a rabid fan base, and the team making plenty of money....the majority approval for any kind of move outside of Pittsburgh would be turned down.

If the Wall Street Guy does take over, he is a loyal fan whose heart seems to bleed Black N' Gold.

The Bad that could come from this is:

What kind of owner would this guy be. Sometimes fans like I described above, make poor choices for the team that they follow....Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder. The Rooney's are stable and consistent. An owner like Jones or Snyder would be hard for Pittsburgher's to swallow.

HometownGal
07-09-2008, 12:30 PM
that is true you do cut and trade players every year. i am talking more alone the lines of the good players.. who's to say he gets control and (lets say,hypothically)he and our franchise qb have words.. he gets mad and trades him??? (not that it would happen, but i am just saying)...

I think you are putting the cart before the horse here, TMA. I'm not going to start filling my head with what-ifs before the guy has even taken control of the franchise. I really didn't believe this was going to happen, but it is what it is and as long as he keeps our beloved Steelers in the Burgh (which I have no doubt he will) and allows the Rooneys to continue to be involved, I'm going to give the guy my 100% support.

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 12:32 PM
i am just saying you need to be prepared for everything. and if it happens..well then as you say.. it is what it is.

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Brett Favre needs to come back to get this story out of the headlines. Its no big deal, the Steelers will never be moved and a Rooney will always be an owner. its a non-story. If Drunkenmiller helps out by buying the other brothers share in the Steelers, wanna bet he has it worked out to allow Art Jr to eventually buy out that share as well over time. the guy is a Steeler fan, no worries.

HometownGal
07-09-2008, 12:36 PM
i am just saying you need to be prepared for everything. and if it happens..well then as you say.. it is what it is.

Hey - if you want to drive yourself mad with all of the what-if scenarios, have at it. I'm more the eternal optimist and believe everything happens for a reason. I believe everything will work out in the end in this situation. :tt02:

BlastFurnace
07-09-2008, 12:37 PM
Somewhere...I see Bill Cowher giving that hand signal (with both hands) to us fans to settle down. From what I have read about this guy, he doesn't seem like he would be a bad owner....if this happened. I just hate that the Rooney's have to go through this.

Vis
07-09-2008, 12:37 PM
Brett Favre needs to come back to get this story out of the headlines. Its no big deal, the Steelers will never be moved and a Rooney will always be an owner. its a non-story. If Drunkenmiller helps out by buying the other brothers share in the Steelers, wanna bet he has it worked out to allow Art Jr to eventually buy out that share as well over time. the guy is a Steeler fan, no worries.


Why would you think a self made billionaire would buy controlling interest in the team and not control it?

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Hey - if you want to drive yourself mad with all of the what-if scenarios, have at it. I'm more the eternal optimist and believe everything happens for a reason. I believe everything will work out in the end in this situation. :tt02:

I agree, it'll work out. Heck the guy paints his face Black and Gold, no worries from me. Here We Go Steelers Here We Go!!!

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 12:43 PM
i wont drive myself mad over anything. i was just saying... i wouldnt be surprised..

steelreserve
07-09-2008, 12:58 PM
Why would you think a self made billionaire would buy controlling interest in the team and not control it?

Because he has enough sense to understand Rooney knows better than him when it comes to running a football team. And Rooney would still be part owner, too.

If you bought a controlling interest in, say, General Electric, and the CEO was doing a good job and making money for you, it would be dumb to just step in and fire him when you know nothing about the business. You'd probably have him keep managing things for you.

One only has to look at the 49ers to see what happens when a rich investor with no football knowledge takes over a franchise and tries to run it himself. No matter how good they used to be and how much fan support they had, eventually the team will be ruined. I'm sure Drunkenmiller isn't dumb enough to make the exact same mistake.

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 01:12 PM
Because he has enough sense to understand Rooney knows better than him when it comes to running a football team. And Rooney would still be part owner, too.

If you bought a controlling interest in, say, General Electric, and the CEO was doing a good job and making money for you, it would be dumb to just step in and fire him when you know nothing about the business. You'd probably have him keep managing things for you.

One only has to look at the 49ers to see what happens when a rich investor with no football knowledge takes over a franchise and tries to run it himself. No matter how good they used to be and how much fan support they had, eventually the team will be ruined. I'm sure Drunkenmiller isn't dumb enough to make the exact same mistake.


I do not see a Jerry Jones/Snyder situation here in terms of personally running player personnel decisions, but owning a pro sports franchise is a vanity investment unlike investing in GE or Exxon. The new owner will not just sit back.

What I do see is that after Dan Rooney passes AJR II (whom I perceive is not particularly beloved by the fans) gets moved out.

The big test will be the one decision virtually all owners get involved with, which is hiring and firing the HC. IMO Cowher would have been canned after the 1999 and 2003 seasons by most owners. Whether Tomlin survives the inevitable rough patches which would not have been an issue with Dan Rooney (cannot say how AJR II would react) remains to be seen under new ownership.

The Steelers were going to change once Dan Rooney departed even if AJR II remained. One upside may be that the team will no longer be the source of the owner's fortune and might, as another poster noted, be in less dire straits if player costs start getting out of hand in the next 5 years.

Haiku_Dirtt
07-09-2008, 01:13 PM
Because he has enough sense to understand Rooney knows better than him when it comes to running a football team. And Rooney would still be part owner, too.

If you bought a controlling interest in, say, General Electric, and the CEO was doing a good job and making money for you, it would be dumb to just step in and fire him when you know nothing about the business. You'd probably have him keep managing things for you.

One only has to look at the 49ers to see what happens when a rich investor with no football knowledge takes over a franchise and tries to run it himself. No matter how good they used to be and how much fan support they had, eventually the team will be ruined. I'm sure Drunkenmiller isn't dumb enough to make the exact same mistake.

And you would think that a billionaire won't trip up a good thing. Not become part of a side show calmouring for attention from the team. Not become Mark Cuban.

Funny you bring up GE because he may be out the door.

This smells like a complete meltdown of previously secured financing for the gambling enterprise. And the only place the "Racetrack Rooney's" can cash out is at home with the stakes in the Steelers.

Memo to the Racetrack Rooney's...the only people faring worse than those in foreclosure are the nation's fine strippers and degenerate gamblers. The strippers will be absorbed into local pimp enterprises nationwide. The gamblers won't be that "lucky."

We REAP what we SOW.

Vis
07-09-2008, 01:16 PM
Imagine any fan who was in the draft day thread actually having the power to do something about it.

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 01:22 PM
This press release today

Four of the five Rooney brothers with shares in the Steelers confirmed today the hiring of Wall Street investment bank Goldman, Sachs & Co. to "evaluate alternatives for their ownership stake," according to a release.

The four brothers -- Art Rooney Jr., Timothy Rooney, Patrick Rooney and John Rooney -- describe "the issue currently facing the Steelers" as "normal-course Rooney family estate planning."

The fifth brother is Dan Rooney, the Steelers' chairman, who is not part of the release. But Dan's four brothers said they "echo the sentiments expressed publicly by the Steelers President that these family discussions will not have any impact on the team this season or in seasons to come and we look forward to the Rooney family's continued involvement in the franchise."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08191/895817-66.stm

Looks like the 4 other brothers v. Dan & AJR II - 64% of the team (4/5 of the 80% Rooney share) is for sale to the highest bidder, which will not be Dan Rooney

Vis
07-09-2008, 01:26 PM
This press release today

Four of the five Rooney brothers with shares in the Steelers confirmed today the hiring of Wall Street investment bank Goldman, Sachs & Co. to "evaluate alternatives for their ownership stake," according to a release.

The four brothers -- Art Rooney Jr., Timothy Rooney, Patrick Rooney and John Rooney -- describe "the issue currently facing the Steelers" as "normal-course Rooney family estate planning."

The fifth brother is Dan Rooney, the Steelers' chairman, who is not part of the release. But Dan's four brothers said they "echo the sentiments expressed publicly by the Steelers President that these family discussions will not have any impact on the team this season or in seasons to come and we look forward to the Rooney family's continued involvement in the franchise."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08191/895817-66.stm

Looks like the 4 other brothers v. Dan & AJR II - 64% of the team (4/5 of the 80% Rooney share) is for sale to the highest bidder, which will not be Dan Rooney

Carefully chosen words in red.

OneForTheToe
07-09-2008, 01:50 PM
This press release today

Looks like the 4 other brothers v. Dan & AJR II - 64% of the team (4/5 of the 80% Rooney share) is for sale to the highest bidder, which will not be Dan Rooney


Well, Dan still has the leverage of his influence over other owners to block a sale (24 out of 30). That is probably not enough leverage to stop the sale of the majority interest, but it might be enough to influence who the new owner is and to preserve his own stake plus a bit more if he still desires..

steelreserve
07-09-2008, 02:01 PM
And you would think that a billionaire won't trip up a good thing. Not become part of a side show calmouring for attention from the team. Not become Mark Cuban.

Funny you bring up GE because he may be out the door.


Well, hopefully it won't be like that. But in Mark Cuban's defense, at least his team is good. I mean, sure, he acts like an idiot, but it's pretty harmless. He doesn't act like an idiot in the way that makes your team go 4-12. If you gave me a choice between Mark Cuban or an owner who's just plain incompetent like John York (49ers) or Al Davis, I'd take Cuban every time.

Basically, just keep the team in Pittsburgh, keep winning, and don't fire the coach every three years, and I'll be happy. I don't care what you do in your own time. Be an attention wh0re if you want. Hell, do some illegal street racing, or go start fires in the national forest if that's what makes you happy. I don't care. Just don't mess up the team, is my point.

The GE thing was just an example; I actually don't know anything about what's going on there but figured it was a big company everyone would know. Just thought I should clear that part up; there was nothing to it, really.

rbryan
07-09-2008, 02:02 PM
Well, Dan still has the leverage of his influence over other owners to block a sale (24 out of 30). That is probably not enough leverage to stop the sale of the majority interest, but it might be enough to influence who the new owner is and to preserve his own stake plus a bit more if he still desires..

Thats a very good point. Even in a worse case scenario where the brothers were trying to sell to someone else, DR has enough clout with the owners to have them veto the sale.

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2008, 02:45 PM
fun times at the Christmas table in the Rooney house if Drunkenmiller gets controlling interest.

Sure hope Blood is thicker than water, or in this case, paper.

TackleMeBen
07-09-2008, 03:12 PM
fun times at the Christmas table in the Rooney house if Drunkenmiller gets controlling interest.

Sure hope Blood is thicker than water, or in this case, paper.
:laughing::laughing:

BlastFurnace
07-09-2008, 03:17 PM
I would like to know if the potential new owner would replace the Heinz Field Turf.

Vis
07-09-2008, 03:21 PM
I would like to know if the potential new owner would replace the Heinz Field Turf.

Finally a silver lining

silver & black
07-09-2008, 04:27 PM
:popcorn:

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 04:36 PM
:popcorn::whip:

bad dog! no treat for you! :laughing:

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 04:38 PM
:popcorn:

I bet you wish the owner of a certain West Coast team would be forced to sell.:chuckle:

slashsteel
07-09-2008, 04:45 PM
I think Drunkenmiller being a fanatic would at least guarantee that Steelers stay in Pittsburgh. Plus a man with that kind of money could help us in a financial capacity. That and Rooneys brains for running a franchise would seem to be a good pairing to me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steelers suitor Druckenmiller 'loves Pittsburgh'
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
By Dan Fitzpatrick and Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Doug Jones/Portland Press Herald
Stan Druckenmiller

The man interested in buying a share of the Steelers is a 55-year-old hedge fund manager worth $3.5 billion, making him one of the 100 richest people in the United States. Stanley Druckenmiller is also a diehard Steelers fan who rarely misses a game at Heinz Field, typically hosts a tailgate party in the "A" lot and has been known to paint his face black and gold.

One Sunday last year, the tall, sandy-haired investor donned a Steelers hard hat and a Troy Polamalu jersey, noted his friend Joe Pohl, who suggested they sit in a private box.

"He said, 'Are you kidding? I'd much rather sit in the stands with the fans,' chanting 'here we go, Steelers, here we go.' "

Mr. Druckenmiller "is as crazy as anybody in that stadium," added Mr. Pohl, a senior vice president of investments with Morgan Stanley's Downtown Pittsburgh office. "That's how much he loves the Steelers." There is "no chance he would move that team out of this city. That guy really loves Pittsburgh."

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 05:50 PM
But fans in Pittsburgh and those around the country who have strong ties to the team are unsettled. "I'm having a hard time breathing," posted one fan on Steelers Fever, a fan Web site, in response to the news. "This is a dark, dark day in Steelers history," another wrote.

I just saw this part..........really.......I was only joking about the breathing part. Sort of.

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2008, 05:52 PM
Has anyone thought about the posibility that this might be a good thing if The NFL Doesn't fix the Salary Cap issue. No longer would we need to worry about Jerry Jones or Kraft or Snyder "Buying" every player in the league in an uncapped year, not with a Billionaire in our Back Pocket.

Look on the Sunny Side Folks...the Sunny Side of Life.

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 05:54 PM
Has anyone thought about the posibility that this might be a good thing if The NFL Doesn't fix the Salary Cap issue. No longer would we need to worry about Jerry Jones or Kraft or Snyder "Buying" every player in the league in an uncapped year, not with a Billionaire in our Back Pocket.

Look on the Sunny Side Folks...the Sunny Side of Life.

Like someone else already said, never look a gift billionaire in the mouth. :noidea:

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2008, 06:10 PM
Like someone else already said, never look a gift billionaire in the mouth. :noidea:

See, now that's Positive Thinking!

Heck Yeah! Bring in the Billionaire, I'm cool with it. The guy can Paint his Face Black and gold wear his hard hat and spit at Jerry Jones when the Boys come to town!!!

:tt03:

fansince'76
07-09-2008, 06:51 PM
Has anyone thought about the posibility that this might be a good thing if The NFL Doesn't fix the Salary Cap issue. No longer would we need to worry about Jerry Jones or Kraft or Snyder "Buying" every player in the league in an uncapped year, not with a Billionaire in our Back Pocket.

Druckenmiller is cheap! :chuckle:

billybob
07-09-2008, 07:01 PM
If that happens I'll no longer be a Steelers fan. And since I still have a really bad taste in my mouth over Spygate, I'll find something else to do on Sundays during the fall entirely.

I would like to pick Chucks brain and see what his thoughts are on this issue.The Rooneys built the steelers,but the fans let them live for all of these years.And are some of the most well traveled in all of football.But i am not that concerned,because who are they; without us?
It is us,the fans that made them what they are today.I am in no way taking credit away from "Chief # 1",or "Brave # 2";But they gave us what we wanted,a blue collar,tough,and competitive football team,and we all responded.
We gave them support,but not for money.Because we loved them for what they believed,and stood for.I have that to hold onto my steel brothers and sisters!!!!!!:tt02:

Vis
07-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Has anyone thought about the posibility that this might be a good thing if The NFL Doesn't fix the Salary Cap issue. No longer would we need to worry about Jerry Jones or Kraft or Snyder "Buying" every player in the league in an uncapped year, not with a Billionaire in our Back Pocket.

Look on the Sunny Side Folks...the Sunny Side of Life.

Rooney rule, CBA extension, revenue sharing, deciding on a commissioner. Dan Rooney was and is the best thing the NFL has going for it. No I don't think this is a good thing.

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 08:44 PM
More from The Wall Street Journal (excerpts below), which is all over this story. is the P-G as clueless in covering everything else as it has been with this?

Behind the Steel Curtain, a Rusty Bucket

The National Football League said Wednesday it wants Pittsburgh Steelers chairman Daniel Rooney and his son, Art II, to keep control of the team, but whether that will be possible or benefit the franchise over the long term remains in question....

That will take some doing. Despite the Steelers' storied history and five Super Bowl victories, the Rooneys have been operating the team as a mom-and-pop business for years, and the financial underpinnings of the team are fragile.

The family has been arguing about the future of the franchise for two years, as Mr. Rooney's brothers voiced concerns about estate taxes. Tax rules could force their children to pay as much as 45 percent of the value of their shares of the team to the federal government under the team's current structure.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell inserted himself into the process last year to help settle the dispute before it grew out of control. At a meeting in September, Mr. Goodell encouraged Mr. Rooney to buy out his brothers to comply with league rules that require at least 30 percent of a team to be held by a single owner....

The meeting prompted Mr. Rooney to retain the bank Société Générale to craft a buyout plan that valued the team at $700 million, people close to these discussions said. Deeming the offer below market value, the brothers spurned it and began discussions with Mr. Druckenmiller, a Pittsburgh native and fan.

During an emotional meeting among the brothers on March 14 at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach, Fla., the divisions seemed painfully irreparable.

While the Steelers are one of the NFL's most successful teams on the field, their performance off the gridiron exhibits less championship luster. According to two people with knowledge of the team's finances, its profit was $12 million to 16 million last year, placing the team in the bottom half of the league. Profit is expected to drop this year as salaries rise $7 million for each team.

Pittsburgh is a great football town, but it also is an aging, shrinking market. The team sells out its games and moved into a new stadium, Heinz Field, in 2001, but the stadium doesn't produce nearly as much money as other modern facilities. Heinz is paying the Steelers $2.9 million each year for 20 years for the naming rights. By contrast, Reliant Energy pays the Houston Texans $10 million each year. The Steelers' average ticket price last season was $66, compared with $91 for the New England Patriots.

That puts the Steelers at a disadvantage when it comes to signing top players, although the team did recently commit $100 million to keep star quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

"The days of collective socialism in the NFL are a thing of the past, and that directly affects a team's ability to compete," said Dan Etna, a sports-law partner at Herrick Feinstein who has handled team transactions.

It also impairs Mr. Rooney's ability to pile up debt to cover the costs of buying out his brothers, and provides Mr. Druckenmiller or another suitor with an opportunity to make a bid.

But even a sale to an outsider wouldn't be without costs. The Rooneys never registered the team as an S corporation for tax purposes. As a result, the Rooneys could be taxed twice on the sale -- both for capital gains and for income.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121564734998740925.html?mod=hps_us_editors_picks

Shrewd move by master lawyer AJR II on the subchapter S issue, assuming that is not something that needed to be done decades ago:banging:

The Journal definitely has some source(s) within the family on this. Based on anything I have read on NFL franchise values, Dan (or AJR II) tried to lowball the brothers with the $700 million valuation for buyout purposes.

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 08:53 PM
I have to disagree about the "aging and shrinking market" part. The fact that this site alone grows daily is proof that the Steelers Nation is strong and healthy.

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 08:54 PM
Rooney rule, CBA extension, revenue sharing, deciding on a commissioner. Dan Rooney was and is the best thing the NFL has going for it. No I don't think this is a good thing.buy or sell, dan always has (and probably always will) only owned 16% of the team, right?

what has (or will) change? he was the man behind the scenes when his father got all the credit. he is the man behind the scenes when his son seems to be the successor, next in line. his league pull will never wane, just like his fathers didnt. he will always be a living nfl legend and NOBODY can take that from him.

isnt this all about big business semantics? 16% is 16%. i dont think anybody is going to grandfather him in as an actual owner. not when larry, moe, and curly are expecting cold, hard, and cash.

blood is thicker than water, but cash is always green.

Vis
07-09-2008, 08:58 PM
The brothers let Dan run things. Druckenmiller has always run his things. Once the Steelers are one of his things.....

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 09:12 PM
More from The Wall Street Journal (excerpts below), which is all over this story. is the P-G as clueless in covering everything else as it has been with this?


The Journal definitely has some source(s) within the family on this. Based on anything I have read on NFL franchise values, Dan (or AJR II) tried to lowball the brothers with the $700 million valuation for buyout purposes.


great stuff dan.

is the rooney's dealings with cowher (lowball) a microcosm of what is going on now?

i understand that dan rooney is much more valuable to the franchise (and the nfl as a whole) than "16%" but to quote a famous coach[es], "it is what it is" = 16% = 16%.

hienz field is tiny at 65,000 and the ketchup definitely got a "hometown" discount on naming rights.

i doubt the rooneys would ever bilk the steeler locals in the way that robert kraft is bilking the sheep in the new england area.

but business is cut throat. the ma and pop "five and dime" shops are always the ones to go out of business when the wal-marts move in.

:confused:

tony hipchest
07-09-2008, 09:16 PM
The brothers let Dan run things. Druckenmiller has always run his things. Once the Steelers are one of his things.....you say this, based on what?

i base my theory on the simple "if it aint broke, dont fix it" belief.

its a widely understood principal.

if dan were f'ing it up, dont you think the stooges wouldve stepped in?

Vis
07-09-2008, 09:18 PM
It isn't about fixing. It's about rich boy with a new toy.

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 09:21 PM
It isn't about fixing. It's about rich boy with a new toy.

Nobody knows that. He didn't get where he is at such a young age by being stupid. And shoving Dan Rooney to the side would be just plain stupid. This boy is no dummy.

And here I was anjoying a nice, quiet, uneventful off season. :doh:

Vis
07-09-2008, 09:25 PM
I think he knows he's the smartest guy in the room. So his ego will make him think his draft choice is the best, etc..

Atlanta Dan
07-09-2008, 09:29 PM
Nobody knows that. He didn't get where he is at such a young age by being stupid. And shoving Dan Rooney to the side would be just plain stupid. This boy is no dummy.

And here I was anjoying a nice, quiet, uneventful off season. :doh:

Based on the latest WSJ article to which I linked, outside ownership might be able to show the Rooneys something about management practices - Dan Rooney is a great football guy but perhaps not so great a businessman, which is a talent someone in a modern NFL organization needs to have

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 09:39 PM
I think he knows he's the smartest guy in the room. So his ego will make him think his draft choice is the best, etc..

Do you know this man personally?

I think you're making some pretty off the wall statements about a man we know next to nothing about, based only on the fact that he has.......umm......a little bit more money than most of us have.

Now if he hires cheerleaders, I say fry him.

Vis
07-09-2008, 09:41 PM
Sure, it's my fear just like you're posting out of hope.

stillers4me
07-09-2008, 09:49 PM
Sure, it's my fear just like you're posting out of hope.

I think we're all alittle afraid of what new ownership will bring to our Steelers. But like the transition from Noll to Cowher, and then to Tomlin, I've seen that sometimes a little change can be good. I'm trusting Dan Rooney to do the best thing for the Steelers's the way he always has.


Or you may be right and the end of a storied franchise is being written before our very eyes. But I don't think so.

Atlanta Dan
07-10-2008, 08:42 AM
Post-Gazette rehashes what The Wall Street Journal is reporting but adds an interview Dan Rooney gave on a financial program - this is turning into a typical Wall Street takeover battle:sofunny:

On a day when the four Rooney brothers officially announced Wall Street investment bank Goldman Sachs & Co. as the financial adviser for the possible sale of their ownership stake in the Steelers, Dan Rooney and his son, Art II, began lining up "names you will recognize" to be part of a financial partnership that they hope will help them gain majority control of the National Football League franchise....

The involvement of Goldman, Sachs to "evaluate alternatives for their ownership stake" is an indication family members are open to the highest and best offers.

"Yes, [the team] is in play," said Greg Melvin, chief investment officer for Downtown money manager C.S. McKee and president of Dartmouth Capital in Wexford. "If Goldman Sachs is involved, it is in play." There is a "90 percent chance," he added, that the shares will go to the "highest bidder

Mark Cuban had an interesting comment on the current CBA not being a good deal for smaller market teams

Who else besides billionaire hedge fund manager Stanley Druckenmiller would want to buy a portion of the Steelers? One candidate that comes to mind is billionaire Mark Cuban, a former Pittsburgher who owns the Dallas Mavericks.

But Mr. Cuban wrote in an e-mail to the Post-Gazette yesterday that he "would not be interested."

"I think the current cap structure of the NFL, as I understand it, puts small markets at a competitive disadvantage. With the price it would sell at, I don't see that as a viable combination."[/I]

Cuban's view that available revenue streams will make this a difficult financing proposal is supported by this statement from an i-banker:

[I]As a generator of revenue, the Steelers provide a new owner with few opportunities for growth, Mr. Melvin of C.S. McKee said. H.J. Heinz already has the naming rights to the stadium, and there is no room for more new luxury boxes, he added.

What's more, "I don't think the next TV contracts will be a whole lot better. Not a whole lot of synergies there."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08192/896048-66.stm

IMO if Dan Rooney puts together a financing package to purchase a majority of the team it will be held together with the equivalent of baling wire and chewing gum, leaving the team in the same financial condition that caused it to annually bleed FAs in the pre-Heinz Field days. I am coming around to the view Druckenmiller getting control might be the best way to go.

rbryan
07-10-2008, 09:34 AM
I would have to agree. Its a bit scary to have this kind of change, but if DR has to borrow that kind of $ to buy out the brothers, I could see the Steelers turning into the Pirates within a few years.

How many of you are willing to accept that fate just so the Rooneys can stay in charge?

BlastFurnace
07-10-2008, 11:01 AM
I don't have a problem with the Steelers being bought by Drunkenmiller at all.

I just don't like seeing good people like Dan Rooney go through stuff like this. In either case, I'd trade bank accounts with him...with or without the Steelers.

rbryan
07-10-2008, 11:04 AM
Its too bad Art Sr didn't have the foresight to leave a bigger % to DR seeing as how the other brothers had little interest in running the team. As usual hindsight is 20/20

Atlanta Dan
07-10-2008, 12:21 PM
Well I should have seen this coming - Dan Rooney's problems, like everything else, are Obama's fault:sofunny:

In the next three years, I believe that more high profile sports teams will be sold than ever before. Why? Because of the estate tax repeal in 2010 and even sooner than that, the potential of a huge increase in capital gains taxes if Barack Obama becomes our next president.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25586803

Dan should have endorsed Hillary

Dino 6 Rings
07-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Part of me, my really dark evil side, is thinking about how much fun it'll be if Obama does win the nomination. Starting day 1, I will lay the blame of every single problem on planet earth at the feet of Obama. Starting day one with the genocide in the Sudan, as well as the pollution in China, the over crowding in India, the gas prices, the lack of alternative fuel the War in Israel, the War in Sri Lanka, fact Bin Laden isn't dead yet or captured, every single thing he is "hoping to change" will then be his fault the second it isn't made to be different.

Its going to be so much fun to be on the other side of the "Its the Prez's fault" arguement.

Not to mention, the last time we had a Socialist Democrat in Office for 4 years, it gave us 8 years of Reagan. Not a bad trade off. If you don't mind 8 dollars a gallon for gasoline if Obama is voted into office.

rbryan
07-10-2008, 01:55 PM
My dads theory is that the Repubs are going to let him win just to teach everyone a lesson.....lol

millwalldavey
07-10-2008, 01:57 PM
Part of me, my really dark evil side, is thinking about how much fun it'll be if Obama does win the nomination. Starting day 1, I will lay the blame of every single problem on planet earth at the feet of Obama. Starting day one with the genocide in the Sudan, as well as the pollution in China, the over crowding in India, the gas prices, the lack of alternative fuel the War in Israel, the War in Sri Lanka, fact Bin Laden isn't dead yet or captured, every single thing he is "hoping to change" will then be his fault the second it isn't made to be different.

Its going to be so much fun to be on the other side of the "Its the Prez's fault" arguement.

Not to mention, the last time we had a Socialist Democrat in Office for 4 years, it gave us 8 years of Reagan. Not a bad trade off. If you don't mind 8 dollars a gallon for gasoline if Obama is voted into office.

Unfortunately... if you get McCain... none of these problems will be solved AND you'll be paying $8 a gallon for gasoline...

So explain to me how the two are really different?

Atlanta Dan
07-10-2008, 02:00 PM
Mods - sorry if I got this thread off topic

Didn't intend to hijack the thread and turn it into a politics debate; the link was to a business story on the tax implications of sports franchise sales, not the usual back and forth on the election

Counselor
07-10-2008, 02:07 PM
Its too bad Art Sr didn't have the foresight to leave a bigger % to DR seeing as how the other brothers had little interest in running the team. As usual hindsight is 20/20

Art Jr. had an interest--- he was fired by Dan, remember?

I think the reason why this hasn't been dealt with amicably among the brothers stems from the rift caused by that firing and other subsequent matters.

Should be interesting to see what happens. Unfortunately, it was bound to happened one day.

stlrtruck
07-10-2008, 03:49 PM
This really comes to a simple fact that has been thrown around this board before - IT'S A BUSINESS!!!

And even in business family members get their feelings hurt, get fired, etc. The members found a way to spend their money by getting involved in other "interests". According to sources they've been trying to rectify this situation for the last couple of years and now, NOW?, they are going off the deep end by bringing in an outsider to purchase their share!

I love the fact that the Rooney Family has owned this team from Day 1 and it would tear me apart to see another family take ownership. Just like it tore apart redskins fans when Danny Boy took over in DC!

Atlanta Dan
07-10-2008, 05:04 PM
Druckenmiller (aka Drunkenmiller if he ever does anything to upset me) speaks:

Billionaire hedge fund manager Stanley Druckenmiller confirmed today his involvement in discussions about the Steelers' ownership structure and pledged that "any resolution involving me will guarantee the team remains in Pittsburgh."

In a short statement, the chairman of the $4.5 billion Duquesne Capital Management said "my primary objective is to do what is in the best interests of the Pittsburgh Steeler franchise, the fans, the city of Pittsburgh, the Rooney and McGinley families and the National Football League. I am more than aware how uniquely important the Steelers are to the city of Pittsburgh."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08192/896210-100.stm

Of course you can only guarantee something if you control it; the reference to doing what is in the best interests of "the Rooney and McGinley families" rather than Dan Rooney is interesting.

The Post-Gazette ran Druckenmiller's press release; The Wall Street Journal, your go to source for Steelers news (we need the WSJ to cover training camp) yet again does actual reporting:

Mr. Druckenmiller's bid, which has not yet been submitted, would likely be all cash, buying out all owners except Dan Rooney, who'd continue to run the Steelers and retain his 16% stake in the team. It would require no debt.

Dan Rooney, and some officials of the National Football League, however, have said they want to find a way to keep the team in Mr. Rooney's hands.

Mr. Druckenmiller has told the brothers that such a deal would saddle the team with so much debt that it might be unable to remain competitive. "My primary objective is to do what is in the best interests of the Pittsburgh Steeler franchise, the fans, the city of Pittsburgh," the Rooney families and the National Football League, in order "to ensure that the team is competitive for the long term."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121572187550543593.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

All cash! - if cash is king Dan Rooney is toast.

Further update

Mr. Druckenmiller and his representatives have yet to sit down with Goldman Sachs & Co., which represents four of the Rooney brothers, and no firm price has been discussed. But a person close to the initial talks between Mr. Druckenmiller and the dissident brothers said they discussed a tentative price, pending an analysis of the team's books, of about $800 million in its current state as a C Corporation.

The team would be worth more if it were organized as an S Corporation -- as much as $1 billion, perhaps -- because the buyer would be able to depreciate the value of the team over time, conveying a big tax advantage.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121572187550543593.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

For anyone who might be wondering why the Steelers did not have the cash flow to re-sign Searcy, Brown, Thigpen, and Lake in the 90s, perhaps it was due to the same financial acumen that has shaved $200 million off the value of the franchise by it not being a Subchapter S corporation and not just the absence of a taxpayer subsidized new stadium.

Atlanta Dan
07-10-2008, 06:14 PM
So Art, Jr. may hold the key

To prevent an outside investor -- possibly investment billionaire Stanley Druckenmiller, a longtime Steelers fan -- from obtaining a majority stake, Dan Rooney needs to persuade at least one brother to sell to him.

That would give him 32 percent of the team, enough to satisfy the NFL's requirement that the primary owner have at least a 30 percent share. If the McGinleys don't sell, no other investor could own more than 48 percent.,,,

Art Jr. finds it ironic he may decide if the Rooney family keeps the Steelers, giving his falling out with Dan....

After the Steelers drafted only two Pro Bowl players from 1978-86, Dan fired his bother in 1987 as the scouting and player personnel chief, and Art Jr. has not been involved in the Steelers' football operations since.

"How about that? I've become a big shot after being exiled 20 years ago," Art Jr. told KDKA-TV.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3482116

Revenge is a dish best served cold

Steeldude
07-10-2008, 07:53 PM
i don't want drunkenmiller deciding to move the team one day or sell it to another person who has no intention of staying in pittsburgh. the sale should specify that the steelers must stay in pittsburgh. even in future sales this clause should remain.

stillers4me
07-10-2008, 08:27 PM
After devouring every article I have been able to find on this subject, I believe that Stan the Man may be the Steelers best option for a secure future IN PITTSBURGH and keep the Steelers competitive for years to come. Going deep into debt to keep the majority ownership is not a smart business move, especially at Dan's age. I would hope that he would let Dan and Art run the team as they always have until Dan is no longer able. I'm assuming ( that's a big assumption) that Dan's share's would then go to Art (but oh, those estate taxes!) and then who knows what will happen as far as who will run the team. One step at a time. A part of me says, "shame on you, Dan".........this situation has been a ticking time bomb for a long time and he knew it was coming, gambling rules or not.

I do feel so bad for Dan Rooney. Last year, he turned 76 and his Steelers turned 75. The Steelers have truly been his life's work. Dan Rooney IS the Pittsburgh Steelers as we know them today. The NFL knows this and I have a strong feeling that Stan the Man knows this and respond with with the proper respect and let him ride out his days as the Pittsburgh and NFL legend that he is.

Here we go, Steelers!

katk9
07-10-2008, 10:08 PM
Questions, answers regarding Steelers' ownership situation

News that the Rooney family must restructure its ownership of the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=pit) caught sports fans off guard. Dan Rooney and his son, Art, run what is considered the most stable and one of the most well-operated franchises in the NFL. A family-run business since the late Art Rooney Sr. purchased the team in 1933, the Steelers went public with the news after two years of stalled negotiations. Here are answers to five primary questions about the ownership reorganization.

Q: Why do the Rooneys have to restructure?



A: In many ways, this reorganization was inevitable. Art Rooney Sr.'s legacy was the Steelers and racing. In the early 1970s, Art purchased a dog track in West Palm Beach, Fla., a harness horse racing track in Yonkers, N.Y., and other racing investments. His five sons -- Dan, Art Jr., Timothy, Patrick and John -- own the majority of the Steelers' stock, divided in five equal shares. Dan ran the Steelers. Most of the other brothers handled the racing interests. In 2006, video slots were added to Yonkers Raceway, but NFL ownership rules prohibit gambling interests as investments for team owners. To comply with league rules, the Rooneys either had to divest their ownership shares in the Steelers or eliminate the slots. The decision of some of the brothers was to keep the slots and enter into buyout negotiations with Dan and Art II. Two years of talks have not produced a deal.




Q: Is there any fear the Steelers might leave Pittsburgh?



A: None. Because of the loyalty of Steelers fans and the success of Heinz Field, the Steelers are a successful business. The team generates $200 million in revenue and profits are reportedly at $20 million a year. The franchise is worth between $800 million and $1.2 billion. To move a franchise, a team must post financial losses for a few years. That's not happening in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are a winner on and off the field. The Steelers brand is one of the best in sports. The plan is for Dan and Art II to buy out some of Dan's four brothers, which will have an impact on operating expenses in years to come because they will have to borrow money to buy out their family members.



Q: Will the Steelers stay under the direction of Dan and Art II?


A: Most likely, but major changes in ownership must occur. According to one plan, Dan offered $35 million to each brother and the McGinley family, which owns 20 percent of the team, for a 5 percent stake in the Steelers. The brothers believe the price of the shares should be higher, so talks continue. To fund these transactions, Dan and Art II probably need to come up with a new partner, and the name being mentioned is Pittsburgh billionaire Stanley Druckenmiller, the chairman of Duquesne Capital Management. Druckenmiller, who's worth $3 billion, once lived in Pittsburgh, and was a loyal fan. He lives in New York now, but still has a company office in Pittsburgh.


Q: How is the league office handling the situation?



A: The league is sensitive to the Rooney ownership issues and isn't putting any pressure on the family. The league has imposed no deadline for resolution, and former commissioner Paul Tagliabue has offered his services as a consultant to mediate the situation. The league wants Dan and Art II to continue to run the Steelers, and it wants to make sure the team doesn't incur more debt than is manageable. That support has bought the organization two years to solve this problem. Even though the league has been working with the Steelers for those two years, it never leaked any of the details to the media. Years of being a model franchise earned the Steelers that perk.

Q: What will be the final resolution?



A: Ultimately, Dan and Art II should end up continuing to run the Steelers. Once the brothers who want to sell settle on the value of those shares, deals will be worked out. It probably means that a noncontrolling new partner such as Druckenmiller will be brought in as an investor. Budgets might be a little tighter because of a new debt load, but the Steelers should still be the Steelers in the end.

lilyoder6
07-10-2008, 11:22 PM
hopefullly he would keep his word bout keeping them there.. but i do hope rooney will get at least 1 of his brother's shares...

Steeler in Carolina
07-11-2008, 12:35 AM
what is wrong with mark cuban.. i like him.. i was hoping he could get a deal to buy the cubs when they were up for sale...

maybe the steelers will be like the packers and let the fans by stock in the team. :thumbsup:

I would pony up money right away to own stock.

Dodt
07-11-2008, 12:58 AM
hey in the event they let the fans buy stock in the team , i would probably trade my profits from that season for tickets.

redst3
07-11-2008, 04:50 AM
I couldnt imagine anything cooler than owning a piece of the Steelers.

FourThreeMafia
07-11-2008, 06:30 AM
The Steelers will never be owned by the city or people of Pittsburgh. Forget that notion.

Mark Cuban is a dope when it comes to sports. He doesnt know how to run a team properly, he just thinks he does.

The Rooneys dont have the money to hold the majority. Even if Dan can get one of the brother to sign their shares to him, that will severely hurt the teams future. It may remain with the Rooney's, but the debt will be severe.

People seem to forget that this is a business. The Rooney's separately are not worth all that much, at least not in terms of being able to buy and run a franchise.

Id rather the team remain with the Rooney's exclusively, but obviously, that probably isnt going to happen. Id rather them just sell now to Drukenmiller, a native of Pittsburgh and Steeler fan, than 10 years down the road to some idiot who would move the team to a bigger market. At least this keeps the team in Pittsburgh for the next 20-30 years.

stillers4me
07-11-2008, 07:02 AM
Investor confirms talks with 5 Rooneys
Friday, July 11, 2008
By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Billionaire hedge fund manager Stanley Druckenmiller acknowledged yesterday that he is interested in purchasing the Steelers and pledged that "any resolution involving me will guarantee the team remains in Pittsburgh."

"I am more than aware how uniquely important the Steelers are to the city," he said in a short statement.

The chairman of Duquesne Capital Management has talked to both sides of the Rooney family -- the four brothers who hired Wall Street investment bank Goldman, Sachs & Co. to evaluate offers for their shares, and the fifth brother, Dan, who wants to buy out his four brothers and become majority owner of the Steelers. At the same time, Dan and his son Art II are also trying to line up other investors to buy all, or even a portion, of the shares held by Art Jr., Tim, Pat and John.

"My primary objective," Mr. Druckenmiller said, "is to do what is in the best interests of the Pittsburgh Steeler franchise, the fans, the city of Pittsburgh, the Rooney and McGinley families and the National Football League." The Rooneys control 80 percent and the McGinleys control the other 20 percent.

The Rooney family, he said, "is working through a number of complicated issues regarding the ownership structure ... I have been involved in these discussions and am interested in participating in a transaction that builds on the legacy of this great franchise and one that makes economic sense to everyone involved."

The comments are the first from Mr. Druckenmiller since his name surfaced earlier this week as a potential buyer. In breaking his silence, he expressed an "intent to keep my public comments to a minimum as the process moves forward."

He added: "One can only be in awe of the way this franchise has been operated for many decades and we are all in debt to Dan Rooney and the rest of the family for what that has meant to the city. Based on all the discussions in which I have been involved, it is the desire of the entire family to attain a result which provides similar success in the decades ahead.

"I hope to be involved in achieving that objective."

Mr. Druckenmiller, worth an estimated $3.5 billion, is not the only well-heeled investor with an interest in the Steelers. A prominent out-of-town family has also contacted the Rooneys, said a source close to the Rooney family. This family is "huge" and "bigger than anybody in Pittsburgh," according to the source, and like Mr. Druckenmiller has the wherewithal to pull off a deal without participation from other investors.

Others who have contacted the family are people from Pittsburgh and around the country who can contribute tens of millions apiece, this source said.

Another source with knowledge of the negotiations said that the four brothers are dealing only with Mr. Druckenmiller. He said the brothers have been concerned for some time that the dividends paid to the shareholders -- the brothers and the McGinley family -- have been decreasing, though the brothers were led to believe that the proceeds would improve once the team moved to Heinz Field. That has not happened, however, in large part because of increasing player costs.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08193/896345-66.stm

Atlanta Dan
07-11-2008, 08:39 AM
Another source with knowledge of the negotiations said that the four brothers are dealing only with Mr. Druckenmiller. He said the brothers have been concerned for some time that the dividends paid to the shareholders -- the brothers and the McGinley family -- have been decreasing, though the brothers were led to believe that the proceeds would improve once the team moved to Heinz Field. That has not happened, however, in large part because of increasing player costs.

Big trouble for Dan Rooney if the McGinleys also want to cash out. With the McGinley's 20% Druckenmiller does not need Art, Jr. to get a majority share.

Sounds like we can add the brothers and McGinleys to those, including Steelers FAs and Cowher, who have been displeased with what Dan & AJR II have been wiling to pay out over the years.

Michael Keller
07-11-2008, 09:20 AM
None of us truly knows what is going on but we all want to speculate and give our wishes and concerns. I am going to accept as complete truth what I hear about Druckemiller . I like him. Very smart, generous, loves the PITTSBURGH Steelers and he is extremely RICH .

Most all of us love Dan Rooney and well we should but he is not the future . None of us knows what his son Art is all about at least I don"t.

I know I am seeing blue skies but I can see Drukemiller and his deep pockets and smarts providing a boost to an already great orgtanization. Perhaps we can compete with the Jones and the Snyders in FA and if the CBA falls apart we have a chance to maintain our quality of players. Whatever happens is going to happen and I am for the time being going to be optimistic this change is going to help our Steelers.

missedgehead
07-11-2008, 10:47 AM
I just hope the right thing will be done and the team won't suffer because of all this upheavel. I have been very upset since this story broke. I can not imgane the team leaving the Burgh. I am hopeful it doesn't happen. I hope our 2008 season is going to be ok despite this.

BlastFurnace
07-11-2008, 11:42 AM
Can he buy the Pirates too? How about a two-for-one deal with the Pirates thrown in.

OneForTheToe
07-11-2008, 11:55 AM
Can he buy the Pirates too? How about a two-for-one deal with the Pirates thrown in.

Forget the Pirates ... I'll sell him my 1985 AMC Eagle 4x4 for 50 thousand. Come on it is an American classic ... and a great investment ... well sorta for me.:applaudit:

stillers4me
07-11-2008, 12:54 PM
Big trouble for Dan Rooney if the McGinleys also want to cash out. With the McGinley's 20% Druckenmiller does not need Art, Jr. to get a majority share.

Sounds like we can add the brothers and McGinleys to those, including Steelers FAs and Cowher, who have been displeased with what Dan & AJR II have been wiling to pay out over the years.

I read somewhere in the last couple of days (forgive me, I don't have the link), that Rita McGinley said she is not interested in selling her shares. So that leaves 20% off the table.

If I can find the article, I'll post it.

k7brown
07-11-2008, 01:07 PM
I read somewhere in the last couple of days (forgive me, I don't have the link), that Rita McGinley said she is not interested in selling her shares. So that leaves 20% off the table.

If I can find the article, I'll post it.

I remember reading that as well..

rbryan
07-11-2008, 01:30 PM
It obviously doesn't matter what I think, but why would you sell 20% or 16%???

By most accounts everyone involved is sitting back and collecting $2-3 million a year while the value of the franchise is increasing by the minute. Must be tough to be a Rooney.

Counselor
07-11-2008, 02:33 PM
It obviously doesn't matter what I think, but why would you sell 20% or 16%???

By most accounts everyone involved is sitting back and collecting $2-3 million a year while the value of the franchise is increasing by the minute. Must be tough to be a Rooney.


First, they are probably making more money on the racetracks, and ultimately they have to eventually chose one over the other per league rules.

Second, remember that these guys are getting up there, and have to think about their estate. Most if not all of them are heads of good Irish Catholic families with lots of kids. Will they divide their 16% amongt the kids so that each owns 2-3% --- further diluting the yearly income----or do you cash out the equity---perhaps as much as 200 million per brother, and divide that equally allowing their kids to invest it in perhaps more profiable ventures.


Personally, I'm starting to think that I would rather have the Dan/Art Rooney, the McGinleys and Druckenmiller than the above alternative anyway.

Haiku_Dirtt
07-11-2008, 03:42 PM
First, they are probably making more money on the racetracks, and ultimately they have to eventually chose one over the other per league rules.

Second, remember that these guys are getting up there, and have to think about their estate. Most if not all of them are heads of good Irish Catholic families with lots of kids. Will they divide their 16% amongt the kids so that each owns 2-3% --- further diluting the yearly income----or do you cash out the equity---perhaps as much as 200 million per brother, and divide that equally allowing their kids to invest it in perhaps more profiable ventures.


Personally, I'm starting to think that I would rather have the Dan/Art Rooney, the McGinleys and Druckenmiller than the above alternative anyway.

Sell into strength. Buy into weakness.

In this Age of Malfeasence you can't run a profitable gambling operation without gamblers who have CASH. And better gamblers with cash are short almost everything but horses and cards. Now. Since the mortgage brokers are now digging ditches and not lending billions to people making the minimum wage...

The Racetrack Rooneys must know this. They need customers. SO cash out of the NFL which is very strong right now. Take those proceeds and LEND to the gamblers. Will the gamblers invest that money into Section 529 plans for their children? Of course not. They will take that loan and blow it back into the racetrack revenue.

Not only do the Racetrack Rooneys get their cash back but the poor schmucks now owe the Rooneys' the principal plus interest.

At first glance I thought selling the Steeler stakes was foolish. BUT NOW. In The Age of Malfeasence those with cash will perpetrate the trends. And the Racetrack Rooneys are well ahead of the curve. :applaudit:

Atlanta Dan
07-13-2008, 08:16 AM
Post-Gazette finally gets around to doing some reporting in today's article - based on the quotes I assume the sources are not Dan and AJR II:chuckle:

[S]omething leaked to the media last week put a public face on a private matter that has been talked about within the family over the past two years. And this story wasn't expected as part of Pittsburgh's 250th birthday celebration.

Of course The Wall Street Journal ran with the "leak" and developed the story while the P-G printed press releases.

"The statement Dan issued wasn't the statement prepared by the board of directors. When the board met in the spring, the statement was simply that the league is looking into the ownership structure for future generations, in case anything leaked out," said one family member.

"The brothers never wanted to sell. Now they feel like they're being forced out by the league. Dan's always wanted control, but the word is that when he presented a proposal for a buyout, Tim tore it in half right then and there. He wanted to buy them out with their own money," another family member said.

"It's a life-changing situation for us. Dan wanted complete control, and he's using the NFL to get it. It's a shame. He's turned our family upside down. We weren't born yesterday. You have to make it fair," added still another...

And there is this nice touch

It has also been pointed out by family members that when some of the brothers return to Pittsburgh to see a game, they've been told that there's no room in the owners' box. "Like they're not real Rooneys," is the way one family member put it.

So you own 16% of the team but cannot get a seat in the owner's box:banging:

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08195/896745-66.stm

Sounds like even if Dan Rooney could put together financing to match Druckenmiller's buyout offer that some family members would like to see Dan & AJR II lose control

stillers4me
07-13-2008, 09:07 AM
I find the whole situation terrible sad for all involved. We, as fans are only emotionally involved. Will our beloved team stay the same, with the same values and competitiveness we've taken for granted our entire lives? The "Rooney Way" has worked and we've taken great pride in how the Steelers build winning teams. For the family, it's more than emotion, it's business. While I cannot relate to thinking in terms of multi million, I sometimes wonder how much is enough? I guess, there is never enough. :hunch:

All we can do is what we've always done.......trust in the Rooney's. We all know Dan would not live forever. We just never knew the end of the Steelers organization as we know it would end before his demise.

As long as this team is in Pittsburgh, they have my support. Win, lose, Rooney or no Rooney at the helm. Nothing ever stays the same, and maybe just maybe, something good will come from all of this. Certainly, having Dan and Art go deep in debt to keep the team does the franchise no good at all. Hopefully, a reasonable compromise can be worked out. Maybe we can have the best of both sides of the coin........ownership with deep pockets AND with the sense to know when to spend and when not to spend.

The Steelers Legacy shall endure!

millwalldavey
07-13-2008, 10:59 AM
:iagree:

That was perfect!

missedgehead
07-13-2008, 11:36 AM
I find the whole situation terrible sad for all involved. We, as fans are only emtionally involved. Will our beloved team stay the same, with the same values and competitveness we've taken for granted our entire lives? The "Rooney Way" has worked and we've taken great pride in how the Steelers build winning teams. For the family, it's more than emotion, it's business. While I cannot relate to thinking in terms of multi million, I sometimes wonder how much is enough? I guess, there is never enough. :hunch:

All we can do is what we've always done.......trust in the Rooney's. We all know Dan would not live forever. We just never knew the end of the Steelers organization as we know it would end before his demise.

As long as this team is in Pittsburgh, they have my support. Win, lose, Rooney or no Rooney at the helm. Nothing ever stays the same, and maybe just maybe, somthing good will come from all of this. Certainly, having Dan and Art go deep in debt to keep the team does the franchise no good at all. Hopefully, a reasonable comprimise can be worked out. Maybe we can have the best of both sides of the coin........ownership with deep pockets AND with the sense to know when to spend and when not to spend.

The Steelers Legacy shall endure!

:applaudit: :applaudit: Agreed with all my heart. Great post. Could not have said it better.

rbryan
07-13-2008, 11:50 AM
I hate to see the media fan this fire. Some jackazz reporter will quote a source that can't be verified that somebody said this or that and the next thing you know a BS story becomes reality.

Someones crying cause they can't sit in the owners box. Duhh, Theres too many Rooneys to be able to get them all in one box.

Atlanta Dan
07-13-2008, 02:27 PM
I hate to see the media fan this fire. Some jackazz reporter will quote a source that can't be verified that somebody said this or that and the next thing you know a BS story becomes reality..

IMO the quotes are accurate

I can see one of the brothers literally tearing up Dan's offer sheet - - it is not as if Dan & AJR II do not have a rep of pi**ing people off with what are perceived as insultingly lowball offers (a certain ex-HC in Raleigh can confirm that)

If the Rooneys do not want to talk with the media it is easy enough to say no comment - after decades of simmering resentments some family members apparently are no longer in the mood to be silent partners of Dan & AJR II - I doubt the media can be blamed for that

And I owned the same share of the team as my brother I damn well would expect to have a seat in the box if i wanted it

rbryan
07-13-2008, 02:39 PM
If the franchise is worth millions more than when Pops left it to them due in most part to DR's hard work, I would think that would count for something.

I'd still like to know who the family member is thats being quoted before I put too much faith in anything I read in the PG. Was it a 3rd cousin twice removed?? Was one of the brothers told theres no room in the box most of the time or was it one time. Sh!t happens in every family and in a family that big I'm sure its not that hard to find a quote you can exaggerate.

tony hipchest
07-13-2008, 02:56 PM
I hate to see the media fan this fire. Some jackazz reporter will quote a source that can't be verified that somebody said this or that and the next thing you know a BS story becomes reality.

Someones crying cause they can't sit in the owners box. Duhh, Theres too many Rooneys to be able to get them all in one box.dan rooney has 9 kids (the most of the 5 brothers) so theoretically they stand to own a more diluted piece of the pie than any of their cousins. i assume that when the box is full it is full of rooneys who live in town. so in other words the situation may be dans children, who stand to inherit less than 2%, shutting out one of their cousins who may eventually own a %5 stake.

i'd be a little pissed too (even though dan and art II i feel have earned and deserve exclusive rights to an owner box). perhaps they shoulda built a box big enough for a clan that is 75 strong.

as far as the media fanning the flames with an unnamed source the article atlanta dan posted above paints a far different story. theyre just showing the "other side of the story". Art jr. being the main source is not hidden.

Atlanta Dan
07-13-2008, 03:01 PM
If the franchise is worth millions more than when Pops left it to them due in most part to DR's hard work, I would think that would count for something.

I'd still like to know who the family member is thats being quoted before I put too much faith in anything I read in the PG. Was it a 3rd cousin twice removed?? Was one of the brothers told theres no room in the box most of the time or was it one time. Sh!t happens in every family and in a family that big I'm sure its not that hard to find a quote you can exaggerate.

Dan Rooney has been a great owner for representing league interests and consistently having a good product on the field for us.

But in terms of maximizing shareholder value, one of the WSJ articles earlier this week was not flattering to Dan's managerial expertise. If the claim the franchise value is diminished by $200 million because it is not a Subchapter S corporation is true and is something that should have been fixed on Dan's watch that is a pretty egregious breach of fiduciary duty to your brother co-owners, assuming they delegated taking care of such issues to Dan.

Atlanta Dan
07-13-2008, 03:09 PM
. so in other words the situation may be dans children, who stand to inherit less than 2%, shutting out one of their cousins who may eventually own a %5 stake.
.

Based on some of the discussions we had here on Cowher's salary negotiations and obvious disdain for AJR II at Cowher's goodbye press conference (particularly HTG sharing her knowledge of AJR II's rep as a sharp corporate attorney), I can see AJR II's negotiating style throwing gasoline on the flames when it comes to Dan & AJR II trying to buy out the other brothers.

Add to that Art, Jr. having been thrown out of the family business 2 decades ago and there are no shortages of reasons for family members being eager to talk with the media.

rbryan
07-13-2008, 03:16 PM
Not to be argumentative, but you guys need to read the story again. Art Jr is quoted as saying nothing but positive thoughts. Every negative quote "Tearing up the contract", DR wanted complete contol", no room in the owners box" etc... was from "another family member"

The writer simply used Art Jrs quote first to try and make it seem like he was the source of the entire story. Thats my original point.

tony hipchest
07-13-2008, 03:29 PM
Based on some of the discussions we had here on Cowher's salary negotiations and obvious disdain for AJR II at Cowher's goodbye press conference (particularly HTG sharing her knowledge of AJR II's rep as a sharp corporate attorney), I can see AJR II's negotiating style throwing gasoline on the flames when it comes to Dan & AJR II trying to buy out the other brothers.

Add to that Art, Jr. having been thrown out of the family business 2 decades ago and there are no shortages of reasons for family members being eager to talk with the media.how bout the "godfather" reference in todays article? :chuckle:

the brothers were "ordered" to keep quiet. and they as board members agreed that if the story was leaked they would sing the company line of reshuffling for inheritance tax purposes.

far different from the official realease from dan rooney.

here we are thinking this may get messy, and it seems it has been quite messy all along...

"The brothers never wanted to sell. Now they feel like they're being forced out by the league. Dan's always wanted control,

i am interested in that a 3rd generation family member thinks they have a stong case in court to be "grandfatherd in" (as far as new rules go) and not have to sell anything. after all they are one of the leagues founding families.

Atlanta Dan
07-13-2008, 04:16 PM
Not to be argumentative, but you guys need to read the story again. Art Jr is quoted as saying nothing but positive thoughts. Every negative quote "Tearing up the contract", DR wanted complete contol", no room in the owners box" etc... was from "another family member"

The writer simply used Art Jrs quote first to try and make it seem like he was the source of the entire story. Thats my original point.

I do not believe we are in disagreement :drink:

I said I believe the quotes are accurate; whether that is a verbatim account of what actually happened, if family members believe that is what happened it has the same effect - the perception of family members becomes reality.

FWIW the P-G story of the acrimony arising from the buyout offer tracks what the WSJ (no slouch at reporting corporate takeover battles) reported earlier this week

During an emotional meeting among the brothers on March 14 at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach, Fla., the divisions seemed painfully irreparable.

IMO Goldman Sachs and/or Druckenmiler's representatives reporting what went on at the Palm Beach meeting may be the WSJ sources.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121564734998740925.html

KeiselPower99
07-13-2008, 05:29 PM
This Drunkenmiller guy seems to love the team and want whats best for it but I can not see the 31 other owners and Goodell approving the sale to anybody but a Rooney. Its sad that the family cant say lets put everything thats happened behind us and settle this for the good of the franchise our Father built. I think its the best for everyone that they work something out even if it means taking a minority owner to purchase the rest of the shares. Keep the Rooneys owners of the Steelers. And I read where Art jr was mad because Dan fired him to me it looks like Dan is the best brother to have carried on the legacy and control of the team. The rest of em want money and dont wory about integrity.

lilyoder6
07-13-2008, 06:28 PM
i just hope this mess won't carry over to the field come season time..

HometownGal
07-16-2008, 08:11 AM
It's all or nothing for Mr. Druckenmiller it appears.

http://postgazette.com/pg/08198/897235-28.stm

Druckenmiller not interested in anything less than a majority stake in team

Wednesday, July 16, 2008
By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Billionaire investor Stanley Druckenmiller is not interested in any type of minority partnership with Steelers chairman Dan Rooney and is involved in negotiations to purchase the ownership shares of the four Rooney brothers with one purpose: To become majority owner of the Steelers and keep the National Football League franchise in Pittsburgh, ideally with Dan Rooney and his son, Art II, at the helm.

According to a source who has intimate knowledge of the New York hedge fund manager's dealings with the Rooney brothers, Mr. Druckenmiller will not get caught up in a high-stakes bidding war to purchase the shares necessary to become majority owner if Goldman Sachs & Co., the Wall Street investment bank that is serving as financial adviser for the Rooney brothers, opens the process to public bid.

If that happens, Mr. Druckenmiller will immediately withdraw his offer to the Rooney brothers to purchase each of the 16 percent shares they own in the Steelers franchise, the source said.

Mr. Druckenmiller, chairman of Pittsburgh-based Duquesne Capital Management who has an estimated net worth of $3.5 billion, is involved solely in financial discussion with the four Rooney brothers -- Art Jr., Tim, Patrick and John -- and is not part of any financial team being constructed by Dan Rooney and his son, Art II, the team's president, the source said.

However, Mr. Druckenmiller has had a number of conversations with Dan Rooney about him remaining in control of the franchise if Mr. Druckenmiller becomes majority owner -- a prospect Dan Rooney and his son are trying to avoid. They have retained Morgan Stanley in New York and PNC Bank, Downtown, to acquire additional funding in an attempt to keep controlling interest of the franchise where it has been for the past 75 years -- in the Rooney name.

Neither Dan Rooney nor his son could be reached for comment last night.

According to the source, though, Mr. Druckenmiller is "not getting any sense" that the deal will not work out in his favor, adding that it makes more financial sense for the four Rooney brothers to sell their entire shares rather than sell a portion and retain some small minority investment in the team.

But, if that's what they want to do, Mr. Druckenmiller would be "happy to accommodate them," the source added, so long as he would still be able to gain controlling interest of the franchise.

Mr. Druckenmiller "has all the respect in the world for Dan Rooney," the source said, adding that he considers the Steelers chairman to be "nothing but a first-class individual."

Mr. Druckenmiller, 55, an Oakmont Country Club member, is an ardent Steelers fan whose lifelong dream is to own the franchise. However, the source said he does not want to be portrayed as a Mark Cuban-type owner merely because he painted his face black and gold at a Steelers game. Mr. Druckenmiller did that once or twice for his daughters, the source said, because he wanted them to take an interest in the Steelers, not the hometown New York Giants where the Druckenmillers live.

He said Mr. Druckenmiller knows his responsibilities would change if he became the Steelers owner.

Atlanta Dan
07-16-2008, 08:33 AM
. However, the source said he does not want to be portrayed as a Mark Cuban-type owner merely because he painted his face black and gold at a Steelers game. Mr. Druckenmiller did that once or twice for his daughters, the source said, because he wanted them to take an interest in the Steelers, not the hometown New York Giants where the Druckenmillers live.

He said Mr. Druckenmiller knows his responsibilities would change if he became the Steelers owner.

I like the explanation for the face painting as an attempt to avoid having his daughter's become Giants fans.

Since Dan is in his sunset years, this definitely is a proposed changing of the guard; cannot imagine AJR II remains in the picture long if Druckenmiller takes over, which is fine with me.

I hope Druckenmiller succeeds - if the Rooneys maintain control the franchise will be burdened with debt in future years.

Of course Druckenmiller will now have to deal with local moron politicians if he gains control

Allegheny County Controller Mark Patrick Flaherty yesterday warned the Rooney family that any change in the Steelers ownership would mean the state and county could seek reimbursement of their $281 million share of the construction costs of Heinz Field.

"As the financial watchdog for the County, I will not permit a material change in ownership of this regional asset to occur without an equitable repayment of the funds contributed by the taxpayers or [will] require a new agreement with the new owners group that the team must remain in Pittsburgh for the next 75 years," Mr. Flaherty wrote in a letter delivered to members of the Rooney and McGinley families..

Jack McGinley, a cousin of the Rooneys and a shareholder in the team, last night said he had received a copy of the letter and criticized Mr. Flaherty, calling the correspondence "really offensive."

"I find it offensive he could write a letter to me with these assertions without calling me to ask about it," Mr. McGinley said. "I am very surprised at it. I have known him a long time. I thought it was a very, very amateurish approach to a serious matter. I am extremely disappointed in Mark Flaherty

Someone with knowledge of the Heinz Field lease with the Sports & Exhibition Authority -- a telephone book-sized agreement signed between the Steelers and the city-county agency eight years ago -- said the lease "gives them [the Rooneys] the right to sell the team, but the franchise is bound to staying in Pittsburgh."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08198/897234-85.stm

"A very amateurish approach" is par for the course when it comes to elected officials pandering to voters about financial matters